Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On 02/26/2011 02:37 AM, Eric Firing wrote: On 02/25/2011 04:54 PM, Benjamin Root wrote: On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 8:01 PM, John Hunterjdh2...@gmail.com mailto:jdh2...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 25, 2011, at 7:00 PM, Christoph Gohlkecgoh...@uci.edu mailto:cgoh...@uci.edu wrote: Are PIL and PyGTK holding back matplotlib for Python 3 Not at all. Both are optional dependencies. Mpl's hard external dependencies are python, zlib, libpng, freetype and numpy. With those you get the agg, pdf, ps and svg backends. Various GUI tooolkits are optional, as is PIL, which provides some image reading capabilities and image comparisons for the unit tests. While the GUI toolkits are optional, practically speaking, they are a requirement for many (if not most) users. The damn-ing part about the backends is that many users use only one of the GUI backends, and if that one is broken for them, they believe that matplotlib is completely broken. (Evidence: the user who complained that matplotlib was not designed correctly when it turned out that the macosx backend didn't support (non-?)interactive mode). PyGTK not being updated for py3k is a heart-breaker for me. I don't want to even imagine what sort of pain in the butt it is going to be to program using PyGObject introspection (yeah, that sounds like fun...). It's not clear to me how bad it will be to handle this in the mpl backend. This page (http://live.gnome.org/PyGObject/IntrospectionPorting) suggests it might be quite easy, and might not require extensive code change. I think the idea is not so much that the bindings offer a different API but that their implementation is different, they are imported differently, and the constants are different. Unfortunately, the python-gobject package on Ubuntu 10.10 seems to be broken; the example that comes with it won't run. That's right -- the changes should be minimal. The GObject introspection version is not meant to require the user to perform manual object introspection. The difference is that rather than generating bindings at compile-time (like the old pygtk), the method lookup and resolution happens at run-time (much like Python objects already work). The advantage is there is less of a compilation dependency between the version of pygtk and gtk+, and it should be much easier to get Python access to any library based on GObject. In any case it appears that with the exception of Tkinter, it may take a long time before interactive mpl backends can be used with py3k. The Qt4Agg backend is also working (with the exception of the Qt form layout stuff) under Python 3.x. But gtk and cairo will have to wait until the bindings settle down, fltk and Qt 3.x can probably be safely deprecated, and wxPython seems to be in Python 3.x limbo. Mike Eric Ben Root -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
In any case it appears that with the exception of Tkinter, it may take a long time before interactive mpl backends can be used with py3k. The MacOSX backend has already been ported to Py3k (at least the C part of it, which is the largest and most difficult part of it), though I won't be able to test it until the rest of matplotlib has been ported. The damn-ing part about the backends is that many users use only one of the GUI backends, and if that one is broken for them, they believe that matplotlib is completely broken. (Evidence: the user who complained that matplotlib was not designed correctly when it turned out that the macosx backend didn't support (non-?)interactive mode). Sometimes I wonder if it is better to retire the MacOSX backend. When it was first introduced, it was much faster (depending on what you wanted to draw) because of how its event loop is organized. By now the other backends use the same event loop strategy, and as far as I know there is no significant difference in speed compared to e.g. the TkAgg backend. The remaining advantage of the MacOSX backend is that it does not rely on other toolkits, and therefore it is easier to compile and use if something changes (e.g., when a new version of OS X comes out, or when compiling for 64-bits, or when Py3K comes out). Still, it needs some maintenance work, and it is hard to keep up. Opinions, anybody? --Michiel. -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On 02/25/2011 08:00 PM, Christoph Gohlke wrote: On 2/25/2011 4:03 PM, Benjamin Root wrote: On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Paul Ivanovpivanov...@gmail.com mailto:pivanov...@gmail.com wrote: Fernando Garcia Bermudez, on 2011-02-03 09:14, wrote: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 06:05, Michael Droettboommd...@stsci.edu mailto:md...@stsci.edu wrote: On 02/03/2011 07:48 AM, Darren Dale wrote: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Fernando Garcia Bermudez mov...@gmail.commailto:mov...@gmail.com wrote: Before continuing the debug process, though, I wanted to check with someone knowledgeable of this branch regarding its current status. Is it possible to compile matplotlib on python3? Mike D. did some initial work for py3 support a while back. I don't know what platform he was working on, but he was able to produce a simple plot, maybe running the simple_plot demo. I was working on Linux (RHEL5), and never got past that platform. I'll stay on the lookout for the github py3k branch and will do as suggested. Thanks for the update. By the way, there was a recent poll on python.org http://python.org for packages where users desire Python 3 support. Here are the top 10: Votes | Package --+ 837 | Django 454 | wxPython 406 | scipy 364 | matplotlib 327 | PIL 266 | py2exe 185 | Twisted 179 | PyGTK 135 | Pygame 94 | web2py http://python.org/3kpoll best, -- Paul Ivanov 314 address only used for lists, off-list direct email at: http://pirsquared.org | GPG/PGP key id: 0x0F3E28F7 Which just goes to show that some people don't understand dependencies... (PIL and PyGTK are needed by matplotllib to be fully py3k compatible). Hopefully this will light a fire for them as well. Ben Root Are PIL and PyGTK holding back matplotlib for Python 3? PIL is used for the regression test framework, but it should be possible to remove that dependency there by using our own png loading code. PyGTK is optional, of course, and users can use another GUI backend until the pygtk bindings catch up. Are there plans for matplotlib to drop Python 2.4 and 2.5? This would make porting to Python 3 much easier. Yes. The minimum version for this Python 3.x compatibility work is Python 2.6. Anything earlier is just insane ;) Mike Christoph -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On 2/26/11 5:30 AM, Michiel de Hoon wrote: In any case it appears that with the exception of Tkinter, it may take a long time before interactive mpl backends can be used with py3k. The MacOSX backend has already been ported to Py3k (at least the C part of it, which is the largest and most difficult part of it), though I won't be able to test it until the rest of matplotlib has been ported. The damn-ing part about the backends is that many users use only one of the GUI backends, and if that one is broken for them, they believe that matplotlib is completely broken. (Evidence: the user who complained that matplotlib was not designed correctly when it turned out that the macosx backend didn't support (non-?)interactive mode). Sometimes I wonder if it is better to retire the MacOSX backend. When it was first introduced, it was much faster (depending on what you wanted to draw) because of how its event loop is organized. By now the other backends use the same event loop strategy, and as far as I know there is no significant difference in speed compared to e.g. the TkAgg backend. The remaining advantage of the MacOSX backend is that it does not rely on other toolkits, and therefore it is easier to compile and use if something changes (e.g., when a new version of OS X comes out, or when compiling for 64-bits, or when Py3K comes out). Michiel I use the macos x backend almost exclusively, for this reason. It just works! It also supports more output formats than TkAgg. -Jeff Still, it needs some maintenance work, and it is hard to keep up. Opinions, anybody? --Michiel. -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 07:29:55 -0500, Michael Droettboom wrote: [clip] Yes. The minimum version for this Python 3.x compatibility work is Python 2.6. Anything earlier is just insane ;) Out of curiosity: did you consider using a single source tree for Python 2.x and 3.x, rather than a separate branch; providing Python 3 support by running 2to3 on build stage and #ifdef's + compatibility headers in C code? This approach allowed Numpy to support Pythons down to 2.4 with little extra work, and requires manual Python 3 specific fixes only when something breaks (which does not seem to occur often in practice). -- Pauli Virtanen -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Pauli Virtanen p...@iki.fi wrote: On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 07:29:55 -0500, Michael Droettboom wrote: [clip] Yes. The minimum version for this Python 3.x compatibility work is Python 2.6. Anything earlier is just insane ;) Out of curiosity: did you consider using a single source tree for Python 2.x and 3.x, rather than a separate branch; providing Python 3 support by running 2to3 on build stage and #ifdef's + compatibility headers in C code? This approach allowed Numpy to support Pythons down to 2.4 with little extra work, and requires manual Python 3 specific fixes only when something breaks (which does not seem to occur often in practice). At some point, it will make sense to discontinue support for =python-2.5 (maybe even 2.6). I have used numpy's 2to3 for my quantities project (admittedly a *much* smaller project with *much* smaller exposure), but recently dropped backwards compatibility and now 2.6-3.2 are supported in a single branch without use of 2to3. I prefer this approach, it seems to be working out without too much trouble so far. Darren -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On 02/26/2011 02:30 AM, Michiel de Hoon wrote: In any case it appears that with the exception of Tkinter, it may take a long time before interactive mpl backends can be used with py3k. The MacOSX backend has already been ported to Py3k (at least the C part of it, which is the largest and most difficult part of it), though I won't be able to test it until the rest of matplotlib has been ported. The damn-ing part about the backends is that many users use only one of the GUI backends, and if that one is broken for them, they believe that matplotlib is completely broken. (Evidence: the user who complained that matplotlib was not designed correctly when it turned out that the macosx backend didn't support (non-?)interactive mode). Sometimes I wonder if it is better to retire the MacOSX backend. When it was first introduced, it was much faster (depending on what you wanted to draw) because of how its event loop is organized. By now the other backends use the same event loop strategy, and as far as I know there is no significant difference in speed compared to e.g. the TkAgg backend. The remaining advantage of the MacOSX backend is that it does not rely on other toolkits, and therefore it is easier to compile and use if something changes (e.g., when a new version of OS X comes out, or when compiling for 64-bits, or when Py3K comes out). Still, it needs some maintenance work, and it is hard to keep up. Opinions, anybody? Michiel, I don't have a mac, so I can't say yes or no based on my own usage. Your efforts in writing and maintaining that backend are appreciated, though. What about the non-interactive mode behavior--is it hard to make the MaxOSX backend behave like the others in that respect? From the general developer standpoint, I don't like divergence in behavior among the backends. (I don't even like the way QT4agg seems to be diverging.) Eric --Michiel. -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
Hi, On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 4:30 AM, Michiel de Hoon mjldeh...@yahoo.com wrote: In any case it appears that with the exception of Tkinter, it may take a long time before interactive mpl backends can be used with py3k. The MacOSX backend has already been ported to Py3k (at least the C part of it, which is the largest and most difficult part of it), though I won't be able to test it until the rest of matplotlib has been ported. The damn-ing part about the backends is that many users use only one of the GUI backends, and if that one is broken for them, they believe that matplotlib is completely broken. (Evidence: the user who complained that matplotlib was not designed correctly when it turned out that the macosx backend didn't support (non-?)interactive mode). Sometimes I wonder if it is better to retire the MacOSX backend. When it was first introduced, it was much faster (depending on what you wanted to draw) because of how its event loop is organized. By now the other backends use the same event loop strategy, and as far as I know there is no significant difference in speed compared to e.g. the TkAgg backend. The remaining advantage of the MacOSX backend is that it does not rely on other toolkits, and therefore it is easier to compile and use if something changes (e.g., when a new version of OS X comes out, or when compiling for 64-bits, or when Py3K comes out). Still, it needs some maintenance work, and it is hard to keep up. Opinions, anybody? Seconding Jeff - I use the MacOSX backend too - was very grateful not to have to install the other toolkits or suffer ugliness. So, I'm also grateful... Best, Matthew -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Darren Dale dsdal...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Pauli Virtanen p...@iki.fi wrote: On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 07:29:55 -0500, Michael Droettboom wrote: [clip] Yes. The minimum version for this Python 3.x compatibility work is Python 2.6. Anything earlier is just insane ;) Out of curiosity: did you consider using a single source tree for Python 2.x and 3.x, rather than a separate branch; providing Python 3 support by running 2to3 on build stage and #ifdef's + compatibility headers in C code? This approach allowed Numpy to support Pythons down to 2.4 with little extra work, and requires manual Python 3 specific fixes only when something breaks (which does not seem to occur often in practice). At some point, it will make sense to discontinue support for =python-2.5 (maybe even 2.6). I have used numpy's 2to3 for my quantities project (admittedly a *much* smaller project with *much* smaller exposure), but recently dropped backwards compatibility and now 2.6-3.2 are supported in a single branch without use of 2to3. I prefer this approach, it seems to be working out without too much trouble so far. Darren My personal rule-of-thumb for what to support for scientific packages is whichever version of python is in the latest RHEL. Python 2.6 is in RHEL6, so I feel that is a reasonable minimum. Supporting python 2.4 (from RHEL5) is probably too onerous at this point. Ben Root -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On 02/26/2011 04:51 AM, Darren Dale wrote: On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Pauli Virtanenp...@iki.fi wrote: On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 07:29:55 -0500, Michael Droettboom wrote: [clip] Yes. The minimum version for this Python 3.x compatibility work is Python 2.6. Anything earlier is just insane ;) Out of curiosity: did you consider using a single source tree for Python 2.x and 3.x, rather than a separate branch; providing Python 3 support by running 2to3 on build stage and #ifdef's + compatibility headers in C code? This approach allowed Numpy to support Pythons down to 2.4 with little extra work, and requires manual Python 3 specific fixes only when something breaks (which does not seem to occur often in practice). At some point, it will make sense to discontinue support for =python-2.5 (maybe even 2.6). I have used numpy's 2to3 for my quantities project (admittedly a *much* smaller project with *much* smaller exposure), but recently dropped backwards compatibility and now 2.6-3.2 are supported in a single branch without use of 2to3. I prefer this approach, it seems to be working out without too much trouble so far. Darren Supporting earlier versions is nice--I work with many machines running 2.5, and keep mpl up to date on several of them, but thankfully I have nothing still stuck on 2.4--but for mpl, now that we have a pretty good 1.x version, I don't think it would be too hard on users if we made a last release supporting earlier pythons and then dropped support for them in subsequent releases. It would not mean people with earlier pythons couldn't run mpl, it would just mean they would get no new improvements, and no new bug fixes unless someone stepped forward to maintain the old branch. Dropping 2.6 any time soon would be too drastic for my liking, though. It would require that any development work done on recent ubuntu systems, for example, would require first installing a non-default version of python. So, I hope the py3k work can result in a 2.6-and-up codebase--is that the present goal? Those of us developing on 2.6 will need to learn exactly how to avoid breaking 3.1 compatibility. Eric -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
Hi, On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:23 AM, Pauli Virtanen p...@iki.fi wrote: On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 07:29:55 -0500, Michael Droettboom wrote: [clip] Yes. The minimum version for this Python 3.x compatibility work is Python 2.6. Anything earlier is just insane ;) Out of curiosity: did you consider using a single source tree for Python 2.x and 3.x, rather than a separate branch; providing Python 3 support by running 2to3 on build stage and #ifdef's + compatibility headers in C code? This approach allowed Numpy to support Pythons down to 2.4 with little extra work, and requires manual Python 3 specific fixes only when something breaks (which does not seem to occur often in practice). I haven't done any Py3k porting. I saw you (Pauli) doing the numpy and scipy ports using the same codebase / 2to3 strategy, and that you were pleased with the results (and it worked...). IIRC the nose testing framework had a py3k branch that got very stale, and they finally got there by dumping the py3k branch and using 2to3 on the same source tree. See you, Matthew -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Eric Firing efir...@hawaii.edu wrote: Dropping 2.6 any time soon would be too drastic for my liking, though. It would require that any development work done on recent ubuntu systems, for example, would require first installing a non-default version of python. So, I hope the py3k work can result in a 2.6-and-up codebase--is that the present goal? Yes, it is. -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
--- On Sat, 2/26/11, Eric Firing efir...@hawaii.edu wrote: What about the non-interactive mode behavior--is it hard to make the MaxOSX backend behave like the others in that respect? I agree that this should be done, but I just haven't found the time to look at it (recently I have been looking at getting animations to work with the MacOSX backend). Probably it is not all that hard, and I would welcome contributions from other developers who use the MacOSX backend to get the non-interactive mode behavior consistent with the other backends. On a related note, something I found confusing for new matplotlib users is that after first installing it, matplotlib is non-interactive by default. After installing matplotlib, I think users should be able to try it out and make some simple plots that appear on the screen without having to find out about interactive behavior and edit matplotlibrc. Especially people that are new to programming or to Python may be disappointed if their first plotting attempts don't seem to produce a figure. --Michiel. -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
Fernando Garcia Bermudez, on 2011-02-03 09:14, wrote: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 06:05, Michael Droettboom md...@stsci.edu wrote: On 02/03/2011 07:48 AM, Darren Dale wrote: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Fernando Garcia Bermudez mov...@gmail.com wrote: Before continuing the debug process, though, I wanted to check with someone knowledgeable of this branch regarding its current status. Is it possible to compile matplotlib on python3? Mike D. did some initial work for py3 support a while back. I don't know what platform he was working on, but he was able to produce a simple plot, maybe running the simple_plot demo. I was working on Linux (RHEL5), and never got past that platform. I'll stay on the lookout for the github py3k branch and will do as suggested. Thanks for the update. By the way, there was a recent poll on python.org for packages where users desire Python 3 support. Here are the top 10: Votes | Package --+ 837 | Django 454 | wxPython 406 | scipy 364 | matplotlib 327 | PIL 266 | py2exe 185 | Twisted 179 | PyGTK 135 | Pygame 94 | web2py http://python.org/3kpoll best, -- Paul Ivanov 314 address only used for lists, off-list direct email at: http://pirsquared.org | GPG/PGP key id: 0x0F3E28F7 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
Benjamin Root, on 2011-02-25 18:03, wrote: On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Paul Ivanov pivanov...@gmail.com wrote: By the way, there was a recent poll on python.org for packages where users desire Python 3 support. Here are the top 10: Votes | Package --+ 837 | Django 454 | wxPython 406 | scipy 364 | matplotlib 327 | PIL 266 | py2exe 185 | Twisted 179 | PyGTK 135 | Pygame 94 | web2py http://python.org/3kpoll Which just goes to show that some people don't understand dependencies... (PIL and PyGTK are needed by matplotllib to be fully py3k compatible). Hopefully this will light a fire for them as well. Well, this was a user poll - users shouldn't have to know or express all of the dependencies for a given package that they use - that's for us package developers to figure out. To quote from the poll conclusions: What does this poll mean? Off-hand, nothing: nominating a package will not mean that its authors now start porting it to Python 3. However, we still hope that this still has some effect on the Python community: * Volunteers trying to help now see where help is most wanted * Package authors now see that there really is (or is not) demand for getting their package ported. It's that last point that I was trying to highlight for us, as matplotlib was the fourth most nominated package for py3k support. best, -- Paul Ivanov 314 address only used for lists, off-list direct email at: http://pirsquared.org | GPG/PGP key id: 0x0F3E28F7 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On 2/25/2011 4:03 PM, Benjamin Root wrote: On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Paul Ivanov pivanov...@gmail.com mailto:pivanov...@gmail.com wrote: Fernando Garcia Bermudez, on 2011-02-03 09:14, wrote: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 06:05, Michael Droettboom md...@stsci.edu mailto:md...@stsci.edu wrote: On 02/03/2011 07:48 AM, Darren Dale wrote: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Fernando Garcia Bermudez mov...@gmail.com mailto:mov...@gmail.com wrote: Before continuing the debug process, though, I wanted to check with someone knowledgeable of this branch regarding its current status. Is it possible to compile matplotlib on python3? Mike D. did some initial work for py3 support a while back. I don't know what platform he was working on, but he was able to produce a simple plot, maybe running the simple_plot demo. I was working on Linux (RHEL5), and never got past that platform. I'll stay on the lookout for the github py3k branch and will do as suggested. Thanks for the update. By the way, there was a recent poll on python.org http://python.org for packages where users desire Python 3 support. Here are the top 10: Votes | Package --+ 837 | Django 454 | wxPython 406 | scipy 364 | matplotlib 327 | PIL 266 | py2exe 185 | Twisted 179 | PyGTK 135 | Pygame 94 | web2py http://python.org/3kpoll best, -- Paul Ivanov 314 address only used for lists, off-list direct email at: http://pirsquared.org | GPG/PGP key id: 0x0F3E28F7 Which just goes to show that some people don't understand dependencies... (PIL and PyGTK are needed by matplotllib to be fully py3k compatible). Hopefully this will light a fire for them as well. Ben Root Are PIL and PyGTK holding back matplotlib for Python 3? I have a private port of PIL 1.1.7 for Python 3 that is passing all tests on Windows http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#pil and works well with a couple of other third party libraries (e.g. scipy, biopython). Official Python 3 support is planned for PIL 1.2 http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/2011-January/006650.html. As for PyGTK, there will likely never be an official version for Python 3: PyGtk 2.24 will be the last release in the PyGtk series. ... New users wising to develop Python applications using GTK are recommended to use the GObject-Introspection features available in PyGObject. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-announce-list/2011-February/msg00046.html. It seems that wxPython, in its current form, will also not be available for Python 3. Python 3 support is planned for the Next Generation http://wiki.wxpython.org/TentativeRoadmap. There is a private port of wxPython 2.9.x for Python 3 http://groups.google.com/group/wxPython-dev/browse_thread/thread/49701177b0a72c6f. I have never gotten it to run reliable. Are there plans for matplotlib to drop Python 2.4 and 2.5? This would make porting to Python 3 much easier. Christoph -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On Feb 25, 2011, at 7:00 PM, Christoph Gohlke cgoh...@uci.edu wrote: Are PIL and PyGTK holding back matplotlib for Python 3 Not at all. Both are optional dependencies. Mpl's hard external dependencies are python, zlib, libpng, freetype and numpy. With those you get the agg, pdf, ps and svg backends. Various GUI tooolkits are optional, as is PIL, which provides some image reading capabilities and image comparisons for the unit tests. -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 9:01 PM, John Hunter jdh2...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 25, 2011, at 7:00 PM, Christoph Gohlke cgoh...@uci.edu wrote: Are PIL and PyGTK holding back matplotlib for Python 3 Not at all. Both are optional dependencies. Mpl's hard external dependencies are python, zlib, libpng, freetype and numpy. With those you get the agg, pdf, ps and svg backends. Various GUI tooolkits are optional, as is PIL, which provides some image reading capabilities and image comparisons for the unit tests. Those interested in py3 support should see github.com/matplotlib/matplotlib-py3 and https://github.com/matplotlib/matplotlib-py3/wiki . Mike D. has already made a good start. -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 8:01 PM, John Hunter jdh2...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 25, 2011, at 7:00 PM, Christoph Gohlke cgoh...@uci.edu wrote: Are PIL and PyGTK holding back matplotlib for Python 3 Not at all. Both are optional dependencies. Mpl's hard external dependencies are python, zlib, libpng, freetype and numpy. With those you get the agg, pdf, ps and svg backends. Various GUI tooolkits are optional, as is PIL, which provides some image reading capabilities and image comparisons for the unit tests. While the GUI toolkits are optional, practically speaking, they are a requirement for many (if not most) users. The damn-ing part about the backends is that many users use only one of the GUI backends, and if that one is broken for them, they believe that matplotlib is completely broken. (Evidence: the user who complained that matplotlib was not designed correctly when it turned out that the macosx backend didn't support (non-?)interactive mode). PyGTK not being updated for py3k is a heart-breaker for me. I don't want to even imagine what sort of pain in the butt it is going to be to program using PyGObject introspection (yeah, that sounds like fun...). Ben Root -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:36 PM, Christoph Gohlke cgoh...@uci.edu wrote: How up to date is matplotlib-py3 with respect to the master branch? It is currently 5 commits behind matplotlib/master. -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Fernando Garcia Bermudez mov...@gmail.com wrote: Before continuing the debug process, though, I wanted to check with someone knowledgeable of this branch regarding its current status. Is it possible to compile matplotlib on python3? Mike D. did some initial work for py3 support a while back. I don't know what platform he was working on, but he was able to produce a simple plot, maybe running the simple_plot demo. I understand there is still plenty of work to do, and some of the devs recently discussed it off list. In the next couple of days, I should be able to finish converting the svn/sourceforge repository over to git/github, which will make it easier for some (like me) to contribute to different branches of development. My plan is to rebase the py3k branch so we have a more recent point of reference, and I will probably split the py3k branch into its own repository. I'd like to suggest you clone that repository once it is available, apply your changes in a new branch, and file a pull request on github. Darren -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
I'll stay on the lookout for the github py3k branch and will do as suggested. Thanks for the update. -- Fernando On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 06:05, Michael Droettboom md...@stsci.edu wrote: On 02/03/2011 07:48 AM, Darren Dale wrote: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 12:12 AM, Fernando Garcia Bermudez mov...@gmail.com wrote: Before continuing the debug process, though, I wanted to check with someone knowledgeable of this branch regarding its current status. Is it possible to compile matplotlib on python3? Mike D. did some initial work for py3 support a while back. I don't know what platform he was working on, but he was able to produce a simple plot, maybe running the simple_plot demo. I was working on Linux (RHEL5), and never got past that platform. Mike -- Michael Droettboom Science Software Branch Space Telescope Science Institute Baltimore, Maryland, USA -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel -- Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d ___ Matplotlib-devel mailing list Matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
Re: [matplotlib-devel] What's the status of the py3k branch?
[Resending in plain text, for better archiving]
I stumbled across this post on the matplotlib-users archives
(http://www.mailinglistarchive.com/html/matplotlib-us...@lists.sourceforge.net/2010-09/msg00359.html)
that linked to the py3k branch. After doing a checkout, though, I ran
into issues running the make.osx script as the README.osx recommends
doing. Since I'm assuming I cannot commit any changes to the branch,
let me comment on the few changes that enabled me to compile the
dependencies so far.
Because I wanted to compile matplotlib for Python 3, I initially
changed the 4th line to:
PYVERSION=3.1
Apparently urllib changed a bit from python 2 to 3, so I had to change
all calls to it to urllib.request, which resulted in the following
changes to lines 34-37:
${PYTHON} -c 'import urllib.request;
urllib.request.urlretrieve(http://sourceforge.net/projects/libpng/files/zlib/${ZLIBVERSION}/zlib-${ZLIBVERSION}.tar.gz/download;,
zlib-${ZLIBVERSION}.tar.gz)' \
${PYTHON} -c 'import urllib.request;
urllib.request.urlretrieve(http://sourceforge.net/projects/libpng/files/libpng12/older-releases/${PNGVERSION}/libpng-${PNGVERSION}.tar.gz/download;,
libpng-${PNGVERSION}.tar.gz)' \
${PYTHON} -c 'import urllib.request;
urllib.request.urlretrieve(http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/freetype/freetype-${FREETYPEVERSION}.tar.bz2;,
freetype-${FREETYPEVERSION}.tar.bz2)'
Note that I also updated the links for zlib and libpng. The original
zlib link worked, but I couldn't find the sourceforge project (the url
seemed to be old), so I updated it to the one distributed through
libpng's project nowadays (which is what the other seems to have been,
anyway). For libpng, though, the previous link didn't work and instead
of giving an error when downloading, it just created a file that
couldn't be uncompressed. Changing these three lines above enabled the
download and proper compilation of all deps.
I also bumped into a minor typo on line 25, that caused clean not to
delete the downloaded libpng tarball:
rm -rf zlib-${ZLIBVERSION}.tar.gz libpng-${PNGVERSION}.tar.gz \
After making all these changes, though, the compilation broke when
either making mpl_build or mpl_install.
Before continuing the debug process, though, I wanted to check with
someone knowledgeable of this branch regarding its current status. Is
it possible to compile matplotlib on python3? If so, what are the
limitations to its capabilities?
Thanks so much for your time,
-- Fernando
P.S.: I'm attaching a diff with all these changes for convenience.
make.osx.diff
Description: Binary data
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