Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
I have to agree with Giorgio in general. Unfortunately, the threading support required by matplotlib isn't implemented in pyScripter, which means that it's a nice environment until you want to do some plotting, when it becomes a bit flaky. I haven't checked eclipse's behaviour with matplotlib. Gary R. Giorgio F. Gilestro wrote: A really great IDE for windows users is pyScripter ( http://mmm-experts.com/Products.aspx?ProductId=4 ) It's probably the best I could try so far (and it's free). cheers On 3/30/07, Tim Hirzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for a good IDE. I really like eclipse with pydev. For easy student/beginner setup, easyclipse has a nice python eclipse distribution http://www.easyeclipse.org/site/distributions/index.html I think I've tried near every python IDE setup out there over the last couple years, and this one wins for me. tim - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
I've had similar problems running wxPython code under certain IDEs where things can go very poorly (dramatic crashing, or it just wont execute). At least with the wx or wxagg backends, I have no trouble running matplotlib demos such as ellipse_demo.py from inside eclipse+pydev. -tim Gary Ruben wrote: I have to agree with Giorgio in general. Unfortunately, the threading support required by matplotlib isn't implemented in pyScripter, which means that it's a nice environment until you want to do some plotting, when it becomes a bit flaky. I haven't checked eclipse's behaviour with matplotlib. Gary R. Giorgio F. Gilestro wrote: A really great IDE for windows users is pyScripter ( http://mmm-experts.com/Products.aspx?ProductId=4 ) It's probably the best I could try so far (and it's free). cheers On 3/30/07, Tim Hirzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for a good IDE. I really like eclipse with pydev. For easy student/beginner setup, easyclipse has a nice python eclipse distribution http://www.easyeclipse.org/site/distributions/index.html I think I've tried near every python IDE setup out there over the last couple years, and this one wins for me. tim - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
Thank for all the reply. I will sure have a look at the video that Oliver suggest and I also downloaded Eclipse. I'm happy that someone also shared my problems in teaching python. I'm aware that python/scipy were not started as a clone matlab (well matlibplot was started as something similar ;) and also that they should be taught as an language (and that's why I prefer to use it an not to shol very useful programs like OCTAVE od Scilab.. it's better for students to hava a curriculum with a true programming language than with a metalanguage). I have to admit also that if someone there sooner or later would create a workspace similar to matlab (with paste and copy, and more interactive feature without tweaking too much) a lot more people would be glade to replace their matlab with scipy/matplotlib. Giorgio - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
Dear List - Thanks for the discussion on the issue of the real strength of the Python/matplotlib/numpy/scipy combo. I use Python for both development and teaching, but my biggest question concerned teaching. When I teach, I need something easy and powerful, but also something that is easy to install and 'feels' like other Windows software. Furthermore, I don't want to teach them matlab (too expensive and too restrictive) or any of its clones (cheaper, but still too restrictive). So I settled on Python with matplotlib and am very happy with it. In class, we always use it in interactive mode. I use IDLE because it has a nice Windows feel to it and it comes with an editor, even though I understand that ipython is much more powerful. It is my experience that one of the big hurdles of using the Python/matplotlib/numpy/scipy combo is installation. Many people are just not comfortable installing a whole bunch of packages to get something to work. In that respect the Enthought edition has been super (my only request to them would be to make a new version available more frequent, but I know they do this all for free so I even feel bad asking). Regarding the don't confuse the newbie comment, I disagree. Many people that come with a small programming background or a matlab background don't get confused with the current documentation. I think it is pretty well done. Maybe we need separate docs for inexperienced and experienced programmers? The changes I suggested were to get more inexperienced programmers to join the Python/matplotlib/numpy/scipy world. I was re-reading the documentation on numpy in the bus this morning, in preperation for a workshop I got to give (to mostly matlab guys). And boy, is numpy nice. I have given the workshop several times, but always with Numeric. I got quite some converts to matplotlib (from matlab) just because they like the graphical output much better. Mark - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
Giorgio Luciano ha scritto: I'm aware that python/scipy were not started as a clone matlab (well matlibplot was started as something similar ;) Yes, matplotlib AFAIK wanted (and probably wants) to be something similar, and it's bad, because mpl is too good in itself to be forced to be just a matlab ripoff! :) and also that they should be taught as an language (and that's why I prefer to use it an not to shol very useful programs like OCTAVE od Scilab.. it's better for students to hava a curriculum with a true programming language than with a metalanguage). That's really good and I fully agree. I have to admit also that if someone there sooner or later would create a workspace similar to matlab (with paste and copy, and more interactive feature without tweaking too much) a lot more people would be glade to replace their matlab with scipy/matplotlib. A pythonic interacting environment IMHO should be a nice application in itself to write. It should have its own shell instead of relying on ipython (that is, it should not be a python shell, or a python shell *really* on steroids). I'd like to hear the pylab guys to know what they think. m. -- Massimo Sandal University of Bologna Department of Biochemistry G.Moruzzi snail mail: Via Irnerio 48, 40126 Bologna, Italy email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: +39-051-2094388 fax: +39-051-2094387 begin:vcard fn:Massimo Sandal n:Sandal;Massimo org:University of Bologna;Department of Biochemistry adr:;;Via Irnerio 48;Bologna;;40126;Italy email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:+39-051-2094388 tel;fax:+39-051-2094387 x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
Giorgio - Thanks for starting this discussion and sorry for the late reply. Use of Python with matplotlib in the classroom and by students in general is a major objective of mine. I use IDLE with numpy, scipy, and matplotlib. The IDLE problem is really annoying though. Starting with -n is required (a strange hack for many students), and then you cannot restart the interpreter. I keep hoping that the IDLE developers will be able to change the code such that this is not necessary anymore. Another difficulty is that it is cumbersome to change directories. In that respect, it would be great if pylab had a change directory (cd) command. That would make interactive use a lot easier. This could also be an IDLE feature of course. Another question I get from matlab users is why there isn't a 'whos' to figure out all the variables that are used. This is really an interactive issue, where the IDLE would be used as an interpreter (calculator really), not as a means to develop serious code. So to summarize, I think getting matlab users switched over, I see the following three issues high on the list: 1. Get rid of the -n problem for running matplotlib interactively. 2. Make an easy cd command. 3. Make an who option. On the bright side, I get quite a few people converted that don't want to go back anymore Mark Message: 7 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:58:42 +0200 From: Giorgio Luciano [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching To: Discussion of Numerical Python numpy-discussion@scipy.org, matplot matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net, SciPy Users List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Hello to all, I've thread that apperead some time ago on this list about matlab and teaching. I've discovered python recently and translated part of the routine I use in python (www.chemometrics.it). Some of my collegue asked me if I could show them how to use python. For matlab user I guess the first problem is to setup everything, but I just fixed it preparing a directory with all the package I need and a matplotlibrc file for interactive mode + a shortcut for idle -n use. The second problem is that people now wants some bells and whistles of matlab that I have to admit sometime can be very helpful for saving time. The bells and whistles are about the workspace. It's difficult to cut and paste from gnumeric/excel (I generally use txt file but it's no so immediate) and also there is no visual workspace. I cannot succeed also in saving workspace (I know there is a function so iosave.mat but I didn't manage easily hot to use it) For overpass this problems I've tried to use QME-DEV which is in early stage of development (alpha) but promise well. What people like of python/matplot/scipy -its free ;) -they like a lot the plotting style and capabilities (they find the png and svg file very clear and accurate) -they like IDLE as editor (ehy it's has the same color of matlab ;) ! ) So my question is . Do you have a similar experience ? How do you help people in moving the first step ? do you use (and also does it exist) a more friendly environment than IDLE except from QME-DEV. I know that this question may look silly, but in my opinion also how much is user friendly a software is very important for getting new users. Cheers to all Giorgio - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
Have you looked at iPython? I think it's a great way to go. Check it out. --- Mark Bakker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Giorgio - Thanks for starting this discussion and sorry for the late reply. Use of Python with matplotlib in the classroom and by students in general is a major objective of mine. I use IDLE with numpy, scipy, and matplotlib. The IDLE problem is really annoying though. [cut] -- Lou Pecora, my views are my own. --- I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early. --Yogi Berra Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
I always thought ipython didn't come with a good editor. Am I mistaken? Mark On 3/30/07, Lou Pecora [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you looked at iPython? I think it's a great way to go. Check it out. --- Mark Bakker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Giorgio - Thanks for starting this discussion and sorry for the late reply. Use of Python with matplotlib in the classroom and by students in general is a major objective of mine. I use IDLE with numpy, scipy, and matplotlib. The IDLE problem is really annoying though. [cut] -- Lou Pecora, my views are my own. --- I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early. --Yogi Berra Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
--- Mark Bakker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I always thought ipython didn't come with a good editor. Am I mistaken? Mark Oh, I see. You probably want an development envirnoment. Sorry. IPython is great for interactively running code, but not too great for any editing. I do my editing in a separate source-code editor (BBEdit on the Mac). That works well for me since the editor can also run Python scripts in a Terminal window. There are some other products out there (although I haven't tried them). Two that come to mind are SPE (I think that's the name) and Wings, a commercial product that gets a lot of praise. Give them a look. -- Lou Pecora, my views are my own. --- I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early. --Yogi Berra Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail QA for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396546091 - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
Mark, you can set ipython (in the ipythonrc.ini) to start up the editor of your choice when you type edit in the ipython-shell. Check out this video at ShowMeDo, that shows a lot of the features of ipython: http://showmedo.com/videos/video?name=DownloadingIPythonForMSWindowsfromSeriesID=2 Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 30.03.2007 16:48:24: I always thought ipython didn't come with a good editor. Am I mistaken? Mark On 3/30/07, Lou Pecora [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you looked at iPython? I think it's a great way to go. Check it out. --- Mark Bakker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Giorgio - Thanks for starting this discussion and sorry for the late reply. Use of Python with matplotlib in the classroom and by students in general is a major objective of mine. I use IDLE with numpy, scipy, and matplotlib. The IDLE problem is really annoying though. [cut] -- Lou Pecora, my views are my own. --- I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early. --Yogi Berra Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
You can run ipython _from_ emacs. Needs a bit of messing about with your .emacs, but once you've set it up, it works very well. Object introspection and the debugger are very nice; you can execute code fragments etc. Not quite a 'development environment', but a long way towards one. It explains how to do set it up in the ipython manual. George Nurser. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 30.03.2007 16:48:24: I always thought ipython didn't come with a good editor. Am I mistaken? Mark On 3/30/07, Lou Pecora [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you looked at iPython? I think it's a great way to go. Check it out. --- Mark Bakker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Giorgio - Thanks for starting this discussion and sorry for the late reply. Use of Python with matplotlib in the classroom and by students in general is a major objective of mine. I use IDLE with numpy, scipy, and matplotlib. The IDLE problem is really annoying though. [cut] -- Lou Pecora, my views are my own. --- I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early. --Yogi Berra Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
Not quite a 'development environment', but a long way towards one. I always thought that the focus of matplotlib towards matlab-like interactivity is fundamentally flawed. Matlab-like interactivity is damn good when it is needed, but for that purpose in the free world there are already the good Octave, Gnuplot and Scilab. The big strength of matplotlib is that it is Python -that is, it is built on top of a general purpose language that is both very powerful and a breeze to code with. I would like to see matplotlib being pushed as a scientific plotting development library and environment, with pylab being a nice add-on for people accustomed with python and wanting a python-friendly interactive plot. Today matplotlib is marketed viceversa, and in my opinion this confuses newcomers (that see a programming language being used as an interactive command line environment) and doesn't help who wants to use matplotlib as what it is -a python library- with full power (I was *extremly* confused when I started to dig matplotlib to build a wx application and *everything* I found starting with was a reference to pylab...) So, coming back to Giorgio question, I'd like to advice him to teach matplotlib+scipy to his students as a programming environment first, letting them learn Python, and *after* showing them that there is a pythonic interactive environment. m. -- Massimo Sandal University of Bologna Department of Biochemistry G.Moruzzi snail mail: Via Irnerio 48, 40126 Bologna, Italy email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: +39-051-2094388 fax: +39-051-2094387 begin:vcard fn:Massimo Sandal n:Sandal;Massimo org:University of Bologna;Department of Biochemistry adr:;;Via Irnerio 48;Bologna;;40126;Italy email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:+39-051-2094388 tel;fax:+39-051-2094387 x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
On 3/30/07, Mark Bakker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I always thought ipython didn't come with a good editor. Am I mistaken? You are not mistaken, and this is by design: ipython is not an IDE, it's the interactive component of a python workflow. As others have mentioned (thanks to all, btw), it has limited support for specifying your editor and a special command called %edit. Many people find this very useful, which is why I added it. Personally I don't use that at all. My workflow consists of an open Emacs session (with multiple frames, typically) and a terminal with ipython in it. I do the heavy-duty editing in Emacs (replace with vi, IDLE, Komodo or any other editor of your preference), save, and then run the code in the terminal via run filename Since ipython has history that backtracks on what you've typed so far, this normally just requires typing 'r' and then 'up-arrow' once. I personally don't find it any more cumbersome than hitting some F-key in an IDE, and I get the power of Emacs with the comfort of a good terminal (Konsole in my case). Others have mentioned how ipython can also be used *inside* emacs, which can be very handy for complex debugging. It's not my daily environment because I prefer Konsole to the emacs terminal, but it is certainly a good way to work for many. IPython comes from the Unix tradition of 'do one thing well and let users work whichever way they want' rather than the windows approach of 'provide a single, fully integrated mega-app'. So it is easy to use ipython with your personal combination of editor and terminal emulator, but it does NOT provide the kind of IDE feel many expect these days. Whether this particular balance is a feature or a drawback is largely dependent on personal preference, I think. We are currently refactoring ipython in a way that will make it very easy to embed all of its functionality into the terminal component of an IDE. So hopefully in the future, this discussion won't have to happen: I'll be able to use ipython the way I do today, but it will become possible for IDE authors to incorporate it in their own environments. Until then, it's worth understanding the pros and cons of using ipython so you can decide whether you find its approach comfortable for your style. Regards, f - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
Re: [Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
As for a good IDE. I really like eclipse with pydev. For easy student/beginner setup, easyclipse has a nice python eclipse distribution http://www.easyeclipse.org/site/distributions/index.html I think I've tried near every python IDE setup out there over the last couple years, and this one wins for me. tim - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
[Matplotlib-users] matlab, idle, interactivity and teaching
Hello to all, I've thread that apperead some time ago on this list about matlab and teaching. I've discovered python recently and translated part of the routine I use in python (www.chemometrics.it). Some of my collegue asked me if I could show them how to use python. For matlab user I guess the first problem is to setup everything, but I just fixed it preparing a directory with all the package I need and a matplotlibrc file for interactive mode + a shortcut for idle -n use. The second problem is that people now wants some bells and whistles of matlab that I have to admit sometime can be very helpful for saving time. The bells and whistles are about the workspace. It's difficult to cut and paste from gnumeric/excel (I generally use txt file but it's no so immediate) and also there is no visual workspace. I cannot succeed also in saving workspace (I know there is a function so iosave.mat but I didn't manage easily hot to use it) For overpass this problems I've tried to use QME-DEV which is in early stage of development (alpha) but promise well. What people like of python/matplot/scipy -its free ;) -they like a lot the plotting style and capabilities (they find the png and svg file very clear and accurate) -they like IDLE as editor (ehy it's has the same color of matlab ;) ! ) So my question is . Do you have a similar experience ? How do you help people in moving the first step ? do you use (and also does it exist) a more friendly environment than IDLE except from QME-DEV. I know that this question may look silly, but in my opinion also how much is user friendly a software is very important for getting new users. Cheers to all Giorgio - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Matplotlib-users mailing list Matplotlib-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-users
