Re: What's the difference between a registrar and a catalog
Hi Chuck and all, I think greater *access* to information -- whether via in-house collections information systems and/or public access systems and/or a system that aggregates data from museums, libraries, and archives -- calls attention to the way information moves in and out of museums. This might be information about objects, creators, events, related objects, etc. Information that is collected, mused over, changed/amended, and communicated by curators, educators, registrars, information managers, directors, conservators, and so on. Museums have been musing over, collecting, and communicating information about their collections for a long time, yes? Many departments in medium to large museums are responsible for managing the activities of selection, description, cataloguing, contextualization, and documentation. Can you map responsibilities for these activities directly to areas of specialization within libraries and archives? For example, can you map museum cataloguing to library cataloguing? It probably depends on the museum and the library. My point is that it's complicated. It requires expertise. It means understanding content, context, standards, and audiences. It means working with colleagues in many different departments to build and share information. What did I leave out? My two cents... Layna White Head of Collections Information and Access San Francisco Museum of Modern Art -Original Message- From: Chuck Patch [mailto:chu...@hnoc.org] Sent: Fri 4/23/2004 1:53 PM To: mcn-l@mcn.edu Cc: Subject: What's the difference between a registrar and a cataloger? Sorry, this isn't a joke. But if you have a punch line I'd like to hear it. I'm interested in whether there is common agreement among museums where the implementation of content and data standards occurs, which prompts a number of questions that I'd like to pose to folks who work in museums or institutions that include museums: How many people does your institution employ? Does your institution include library services? If so, are they open to the public or only staff? Does your museum or museum division have a cataloger? If so, what is the name of the department this person is a part of? Who does he/she report to? If your museum does not have a position that is clearly labeled cataloger, then where does descriptive cataloging take place? In the Collections Manager's/Registrar's office? In the curatorial departments? Somewhere else? Is the person responsible for descriptive cataloging a full-time cataloger (regardless of title)? If not, what proportion of their time are they engaged in creating cataloging records or other descriptive documentation? To what extent does your institution implement vocabulary and content standards such as AAT, ULAN, Nomenclature etc... In other words standards that are known to be used in more places than just your own? I know it's Friday afternoon and I may have to send this out again Monday morning to keep it from being buried in weekend spam, but I'd love to see some discussion on the list of this topic. ___ Chuck Patch director of systems The Historic New Orleans Collection (504)523-4662 (504)598-7108 (fax) www.hnoc.org --- You are currently subscribed to mcn_mcn-l as: lwh...@sfmoma.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-mcn_mcn-l-76092...@listserver.americaneagle.com --- You are currently subscribed to mcn_mcn-l as: rlancefi...@mail.wesleyan.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-mcn_mcn-l-12800...@listserver.americaneagle.com
Re: What's the difference between a registrar and a catalog
We are a mid-size museum, and so although we have a db manager, library manager, and a registrar none of us hold the cataloger title--I believe for the same reasons Suzane sites--the varying responsibilities of each position. I'm not real sure where/what the subject question is driving at -- I don't want to simplify the discussion, but is it considered a bad thing registration is very involved in cataloging? I disagree with the get it statement in our Museum's case-- as soon as I was hired into the registration department from the library, my end goal was to share the information with the public, like a library. Although rocky at first, sizable parts of the database are actually presentable to the public now, whereas when I first came consistency only lasted as long as the assistants working did. I suppose one of the pitfalls is the underdeveloped local lexicon, but the IT staffer here is working pretty well around that when pulling from the database (working on a web project at the moment). I sent the answers to Chuck's questions directly to him; please email me if you would like to see those. * Molly Hutton Marder Assistant Registrar/Collections Database Manager Chrysler Museum of Art 245 West Olney Road Norfolk, VA 23510-1587 phone 757.965.2030 / fax 757.664.6201 www.chrysler.org -Original Message- From: Mike Volmar [mailto:mvol...@fruitlands.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 1:18 PM To: mcn-l@mcn.edu Subject: RE: What's the difference between a registrar and a cataloger? Here is a response from a smaller institution. We do not have a registrar, archivist, librarian or collections manager. These duties fall to me or my part-time assistant. While we are mindful of the plethora of categories devised to pidgeon hole objects etc, I think we tend to generalize a bit for expedience. I think its fair to say that the information that describes the object in the db might suffer at the expense of digital photography, counting, condition reports. When combined with the written files the information on any given object can be quite rich though perhaps a bit uneven. I think our situation is similar to other institutions where whomever set up the db did so at the expense of the descriptive or contextual information. We need time to add images and details to object records. I think you are probably right that museums really get it about documenting transactions, collections care and management, but don't worry nearly as much about information discovery beyond their own staffs. Perhaps, as is the case here, the collection is much broader than the manager's subject specialty. Therefore, we tend to shy away from adding descriptive information that might be wrong or misleading - unless we or an expert offers a useful factiod that we can add to the record. I have one example, we have two paintings by George Inness, The March of the Crusaders and an unnamed landscape. About 40 years separates the two works during which time his style changed dramatically. The paper file on each of these paintings contains more details than the computer record. About 15 years ago at least one reviewer, maybe even Ted Stebbens, thought the artist of the latter painting might be Inness' son. However, a recent article on Inness in Antiques (based on the recent exhibition) suggests otherwise. For our purposes it makes sense to make note of the two differing opinions. But we decided to favor the more recent research in our interpretive materials available to visitors. Hope this is useful. Michael Volmar PhD Curator Fruitlands Museums 102 Prospect Hill Road Harvard, MA 01451 978-456-3924x228 mvol...@fruitlands.org www.fruitlands.org -Original Message- From: Chuck Patch [mailto:chu...@hnoc.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 12:19 PM To: mcn-l@mcn.edu Subject: RE: What's the difference between a registrar and a cataloger? Suzane, Thanks for responding directly to the list. I'd like to get more of a reaction from folks in the field. The initial questions were asked in preparation for a talk I've been asked to give at the AAM on the importance of standards in registration. Especially since you literally wrote the book on this, I'd like to plumb a little deeper: Does your museum or museum division have a cataloger? If so, what is The name of the department this person is a part of? Who does he/she report to? sq - When fully staffed, yes, our library has a cataloger. But on the collections side, when I came to the Whitney, I changed the name of the collection cataloguer to Documentation Manager to differentiate from library cataloging activities, as well as to reflect the very different responsibilities inherent in the position as I defined it. The documentation area reports to the registrar (me). Is your library fully staffed now? Let's be provocative: which function tends to be more vulnerable, library cataloging or descriptive
Re: What's the difference between a registrar and a catalog
Suzane, Thanks for responding directly to the list. I'd like to get more of a reaction from folks in the field. The initial questions were asked in preparation for a talk I've been asked to give at the AAM on the importance of standards in registration. Especially since you literally wrote the book on this, I'd like to plumb a little deeper: Does your museum or museum division have a cataloger? If so, what is The name of the department this person is a part of? Who does he/she report to? sq - When fully staffed, yes, our library has a cataloger. But on the collections side, when I came to the Whitney, I changed the name of the collection cataloguer to Documentation Manager to differentiate from library cataloging activities, as well as to reflect the very different responsibilities inherent in the position as I defined it. The documentation area reports to the registrar (me). Is your library fully staffed now? Let's be provocative: which function tends to be more vulnerable, library cataloging or descriptive cataloging in the CM department? To elaborate a little, I'm hypothesizing that museums really get it about documenting transactions, collections care and management, but don't worry nearly as much about information discovery beyond their own staffs. If your museum does not have a position that is clearly labeled cataloger, then where does descriptive cataloging take place? In the Collections Manager's/Registrar's office? In the curatorial departments? Somewhere else? sq - The Documentation Manager (DM) is responsible for all collection and exhibition paper files and records; the administration of the collections and exhibitions management system (upgrades, reports, statistics, staff training, system security, etc.); the legal aspect of the acquisition process (sending deeds of gift, processing purchases, preparation of lists of new acquisitions to the Board for ratification); basic cataloging and related data entry (marks, inscriptions, signatures, dimensions, media/materials, components, credit line, etc.). A bit of an aside: the curators begin the initial object record in the database as part of the proposal process (the proposal forms are printed from their initial record). They can change 'boiler plate' information in the record until the work is accessioned, after that if they want to change data - it goes through the reattribution process managed by the DM. What is the boiler-plate information? Is there a clear distinction in the roles of curator and DM vis-à-vis the creation of descriptive information? When a curator's term for something differs from, let's say, an accepted term in the AAT, which term gets used, i.e.: does local practice over-ride more generalized standards and if so, are the generally accepted terms maintained in addition to the local terms? Is there anything resembling thematic or subject categorization? sq - the Documentation Manager has a half time assistant who is largely devoted to cataloging and data entry. The DM also spends approximately 1/2 to 1/3 of her time cataloging the more complicated works. Thanks for responding. Let's hear from some other people! ___ Chuck Patch director of systems The Historic New Orleans Collection (504)523-4662 (504)598-7108 (fax) www.hnoc.org --- You are currently subscribed to mcn_mcn-l as: rlancefi...@mail.wesleyan.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-mcn_mcn-l-12800...@listserver.americaneagle.com
Re: What's the difference between a registrar and a catalog
Here is a response from a smaller institution. We do not have a registrar, archivist, librarian or collections manager. These duties fall to me or my part-time assistant. While we are mindful of the plethora of categories devised to pidgeon hole objects etc, I think we tend to generalize a bit for expedience. I think its fair to say that the information that describes the object in the db might suffer at the expense of digital photography, counting, condition reports. When combined with the written files the information on any given object can be quite rich though perhaps a bit uneven. I think our situation is similar to other institutions where whomever set up the db did so at the expense of the descriptive or contextual information. We need time to add images and details to object records. I think you are probably right that museums really get it about documenting transactions, collections care and management, but don't worry nearly as much about information discovery beyond their own staffs. Perhaps, as is the case here, the collection is much broader than the manager's subject specialty. Therefore, we tend to shy away from adding descriptive information that might be wrong or misleading - unless we or an expert offers a useful factiod that we can add to the record. I have one example, we have two paintings by George Inness, The March of the Crusaders and an unnamed landscape. About 40 years separates the two works during which time his style changed dramatically. The paper file on each of these paintings contains more details than the computer record. About 15 years ago at least one reviewer, maybe even Ted Stebbens, thought the artist of the latter painting might be Inness' son. However, a recent article on Inness in Antiques (based on the recent exhibition) suggests otherwise. For our purposes it makes sense to make note of the two differing opinions. But we decided to favor the more recent research in our interpretive materials available to visitors. Hope this is useful. Michael Volmar PhD Curator Fruitlands Museums 102 Prospect Hill Road Harvard, MA 01451 978-456-3924x228 mvol...@fruitlands.org www.fruitlands.org -Original Message- From: Chuck Patch [mailto:chu...@hnoc.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 12:19 PM To: mcn-l@mcn.edu Subject: RE: What's the difference between a registrar and a cataloger? Suzane, Thanks for responding directly to the list. I'd like to get more of a reaction from folks in the field. The initial questions were asked in preparation for a talk I've been asked to give at the AAM on the importance of standards in registration. Especially since you literally wrote the book on this, I'd like to plumb a little deeper: Does your museum or museum division have a cataloger? If so, what is The name of the department this person is a part of? Who does he/she report to? sq - When fully staffed, yes, our library has a cataloger. But on the collections side, when I came to the Whitney, I changed the name of the collection cataloguer to Documentation Manager to differentiate from library cataloging activities, as well as to reflect the very different responsibilities inherent in the position as I defined it. The documentation area reports to the registrar (me). Is your library fully staffed now? Let's be provocative: which function tends to be more vulnerable, library cataloging or descriptive cataloging in the CM department? To elaborate a little, I'm hypothesizing that museums really get it about documenting transactions, collections care and management, but don't worry nearly as much about information discovery beyond their own staffs. If your museum does not have a position that is clearly labeled cataloger, then where does descriptive cataloging take place? In the Collections Manager's/Registrar's office? In the curatorial departments? Somewhere else? sq - The Documentation Manager (DM) is responsible for all collection and exhibition paper files and records; the administration of the collections and exhibitions management system (upgrades, reports, statistics, staff training, system security, etc.); the legal aspect of the acquisition process (sending deeds of gift, processing purchases, preparation of lists of new acquisitions to the Board for ratification); basic cataloging and related data entry (marks, inscriptions, signatures, dimensions, media/materials, components, credit line, etc.). A bit of an aside: the curators begin the initial object record in the database as part of the proposal process (the proposal forms are printed from their initial record). They can change 'boiler plate' information in the record until the work is accessioned, after that if they want to change data - it goes through the reattribution process managed by the DM. What is the boiler-plate information? Is there a clear distinction in the roles of curator and DM vis-à-vis the creation of descriptive information? When a curator's term
