Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-10 Thread Jim Cathey

If there is a foot valve in the return line (and there has to be
something, else the system wouldn't work very well), it will be on the
end of the tube.


It's pneumatics.  Both top and bottom of the oil separator are exposed
to crankcase pressures.  Gravity breaks the tie vote.  (The hose to
the top is also larger diameter, that may also have an effect.)

-- Jim




Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-10 Thread Peter Frederick
Have you verified the amount of blowby your engine produces?  You may 
also want to temporarily divert the blowby hose to a coffee can and 
drive a bit to see how much oil is blowing over.


If there is a foot valve in the return line (and there has to be 
something, else the system wouldn't work very well), it will be on the 
end of the tube.


Peter




Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-10 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin
There is no such valve on the return lines.  Its just a hole into the 
oil pan.


Luther wrote:


Turbo was from the '82 300D with 74kmi in unknown condition.  Both the original 
turbo and the current one have no axial play but do have slight side to side.  
Tell me more about the foot valve.  Is there one on the turbo oil return line 
also?

Luther


--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL,
 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, (2x) 84 190D 2.2,
 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net



Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-09 Thread Peter Frederick
Yup, there is supposed to be a foot valve on the air filter oil return 
line, I do believe (although I've been wrong a lot lately).


The "guts" have to be in place in the oil trap, too -- it's a 
centrifugal filter, so the inlet pipe must be at an angle.  Don't 
remember what it looks like any more, but it's not just a metal box.


Was that a NEW or REBUILT turbo, or one off another car, unchecked?  
Oil leaking out the front seal will get burned, and you will have to 
dump HUGE quantities in there to see smoke.  Out the back, you get blue 
smoke on acceleration.


Check the rotation of the compressor wheel with the engine off (and 
check for excessive oil at the same time) -- it must turn freely with 
light finger pressure, with no axial play (a bit of side to side play 
is acceptable, they are "floating" bearings), and NO binding in 
rotation.  Stiff spots, however slight, indicate toasted bearings and 
seals.  A gasser turbo will spin for a long time after you flip it with 
a finger, but in my limited experience, MB diesel turbos are a bit 
stiffer and won't spin if you flip the wheel.  They do rotate with 
light fingertip pressure.  If it takes much effort to move turn the 
compressor wheel, the bearings (and seals) are shot.


Peter




Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-09 Thread Luther
WHA?  Valve at the bottom of the return tube?  Didn't know there was one 
there..are you talking oil return tube???
The oil trap was swapped out with one from the 74kmi '82 300D and no change.  
Turbo has been swapped also.

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:54:06 -0600, Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What is the condition of the oil trap in the air filter?  I believe you
> said it was OK, but don't remember.  If split or leaking, it will dump
> quite a bit of oil down the intake -- ditto if the valve at the bottom
> of the return tube is bad, it can actually suck oil up out of the
> crankcase at road speeds.
>
> Bad turbo is the next suspect -- these engines will burn very large
> amounts of oil without smoke if it happens under load and not idle.
>
> Peter
>
>
>



-- 
Luther   KB5QHUAlma, Ark
'87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case?
'83 300SD (241 kmi)
'82 300CD (162 kmi)
'82 300D  (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work
'85 300D (280,176) parts car



Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-09 Thread Peter Frederick
What is the condition of the oil trap in the air filter?  I believe you 
said it was OK, but don't remember.  If split or leaking, it will dump 
quite a bit of oil down the intake -- ditto if the valve at the bottom 
of the return tube is bad, it can actually suck oil up out of the 
crankcase at road speeds.


Bad turbo is the next suspect -- these engines will burn very large 
amounts of oil without smoke if it happens under load and not idle.


Peter




Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-08 Thread Werner Fehlauer
Luther - if there's little or no oil in the vacuum lines, and none dripping 
out below, none coming out the radiator overflow, then it must be burning in 
the combustion chambers.  And its pretty close to impossible for crankcase 
oil to mix with fuel in the IP, so that pretty much leaves rings, pistons, 
and perhaps head gasket.
IIRC, M-B recommends an engine rebuild when the oil consumption exceeds a 
quart in 600-700 miles?


Werner

- Original Message - 
From: "Luther" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Banned List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage


I can't see how it goes from the vacuum pump to the engine on this car. 
There

is no vent hose to the air cleaner, the IP shutoff valve is new, and
the EGR is
blocked off.  Where else is there to loose oil?  Could it be an IP seal
sucking
oil in and mixing it with the fuel???

--
Luther   KB5QHUAlma, Ark
'87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case?
'83 300SD (241 kmi)
'82 300CD (162 kmi)
'82 300D  (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work
'85 300D (280,176) parts car



Quoting Bill Wachsmuth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


That's totally what happens though. I had a blown vacuum diaphragm on one
that had to be towed for a different reason and you would not believe how
oil POURED out of the tailpipe!

On 12/8/06, Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts 
from

Rusty
to rebuild the vacuum pump.  Though I still cannot see how 1 qt every 
300

miles
can disappear through just the vacuum system.






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Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-08 Thread Luther

I can't see how it goes from the vacuum pump to the engine on this car.  There
is no vent hose to the air cleaner, the IP shutoff valve is new, and 
the EGR is
blocked off.  Where else is there to loose oil?  Could it be an IP seal 
sucking

oil in and mixing it with the fuel???

--
Luther   KB5QHUAlma, Ark
'87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case?
'83 300SD (241 kmi)
'82 300CD (162 kmi)
'82 300D  (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work
'85 300D (280,176) parts car



Quoting Bill Wachsmuth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


That's totally what happens though. I had a blown vacuum diaphragm on one
that had to be towed for a different reason and you would not believe how
oil POURED out of the tailpipe!

On 12/8/06, Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts from
Rusty
to rebuild the vacuum pump.  Though I still cannot see how 1 qt every 300
miles
can disappear through just the vacuum system.








Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-08 Thread kevin kraly

I'm still not convinced where the oil is going..

It's burnin', burnin', burnin'!  Either that or there's some kid sucking it 
out at night while you're sleeping.  Seriously, oil in the vac lines could 
be the source of the problem.  You still haven't found any obvious signs of 
oil anywhere on the engine or under the car?  I don't think that your engine 
is worn out!


I sure hope that you get to the bottom of this soon.

Kevin in Hillsboro OR
1983 300SD 284K miles, Ursula
PS.  She hasn't been driven enough yet to check oil consumption. 





Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-08 Thread Luther

Nope, no gobs of oil in the air cleaner.  No vent out of the vacuum pump, only
the main hard vacuum line.  My vacuum pump looks identical to the one 
in Hans's

300SD.  I'm still not convinced where the oil is going..

--
Luther   KB5QHUAlma, Ark
'87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case?
'83 300SD (241 kmi)
'82 300CD (162 kmi)
'82 300D  (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work
'85 300D (280,176) parts car



Quoting Rich Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


Look in the air filter, you should see gobs of oil in there from where
the line from the vac pump goes in.  If not, then there is some other
problem with where the oil is going.

I have a writeup here on rebuilding my vac pump.
http://www.constructivity.net/rebuilding_the_vacuum_pump.htm

Have fun, don't forget the loctite on the little screw that holds the
diaphragm on the shaft.

--R

Marshall Booth wrote:

Luther wrote:

I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have 
parts from Rusty
to rebuild the vacuum pump.  Though I still cannot see how 1 qt 
every 300 miles

can disappear through just the vacuum system.


Figure out where the vacuum pump exhaust goes (into the air filter? in
most 123s diesels I think) and that's where a bad vacuum pump sends most
of the oil.

Marshall











Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-08 Thread Luther

Really, I've seen that hose on the older non turbo 123's, but haven't noticed
one on my CD.  I'll have a look tonight after work.

--
Luther   KB5QHUAlma, Ark
'87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case?
'83 300SD (241 kmi)
'82 300CD (162 kmi)
'82 300D  (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work
'85 300D (280,176) parts car



Quoting Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


Luther wrote:
Ok, so it's an old subject, but Kaleb's posted the question to me 
several times

about the cold starting on this car.  This morning it was 13 degrees when I
left for work.  Glowed for 15 seconds (counted by the ticking of the dash
clock) and turned the starter right after the glow light went out for 1-1.5
seconds, and it fired up and began to idle at 600 rpm (without any throttle
assistance), nearly as smooth as glass.  It only missed once after about 3
seconds of idling.  This car has Delo 400 in the crank and NOT 
Mobile 1 like my

SD which can be a tad more rough to start when it's that cold.  Sounds to me
like the compression is ok.
I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts 
from Rusty
to rebuild the vacuum pump.  Though I still cannot see how 1 qt 
every 300 miles

can disappear through just the vacuum system.




Figure out where the vacuum pump exhaust goes (into the air filter? in
most 123s diesels I think) and that's where a bad vacuum pump sends most
of the oil.

Marshall

--
Marshall Booth Ph.D.
Ass't Prof. (ret.)
Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-08 Thread Rich Thomas
Look in the air filter, you should see gobs of oil in there from where 
the line from the vac pump goes in.  If not, then there is some other 
problem with where the oil is going.


I have a writeup here on rebuilding my vac pump. 
http://www.constructivity.net/rebuilding_the_vacuum_pump.htm


Have fun, don't forget the loctite on the little screw that holds the 
diaphragm on the shaft.


--R

Marshall Booth wrote:

Luther wrote:
  

I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts from Rusty
to rebuild the vacuum pump.  Though I still cannot see how 1 qt every 300 miles
can disappear through just the vacuum system.


Figure out where the vacuum pump exhaust goes (into the air filter? in 
most 123s diesels I think) and that's where a bad vacuum pump sends most 
of the oil.


Marshall







Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-08 Thread Marshall Booth

Luther wrote:

Ok, so it's an old subject, but Kaleb's posted the question to me several times
about the cold starting on this car.  This morning it was 13 degrees when I
left for work.  Glowed for 15 seconds (counted by the ticking of the dash
clock) and turned the starter right after the glow light went out for 1-1.5
seconds, and it fired up and began to idle at 600 rpm (without any throttle
assistance), nearly as smooth as glass.  It only missed once after about 3
seconds of idling.  This car has Delo 400 in the crank and NOT Mobile 1 like my
SD which can be a tad more rough to start when it's that cold.  Sounds to me
like the compression is ok.
I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts from Rusty
to rebuild the vacuum pump.  Though I still cannot see how 1 qt every 300 miles
can disappear through just the vacuum system.




Figure out where the vacuum pump exhaust goes (into the air filter? in 
most 123s diesels I think) and that's where a bad vacuum pump sends most 
of the oil.


Marshall

--
Marshall Booth Ph.D.
Ass't Prof. (ret.)
Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



[MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage

2006-12-08 Thread Luther
Ok, so it's an old subject, but Kaleb's posted the question to me several times
about the cold starting on this car.  This morning it was 13 degrees when I
left for work.  Glowed for 15 seconds (counted by the ticking of the dash
clock) and turned the starter right after the glow light went out for 1-1.5
seconds, and it fired up and began to idle at 600 rpm (without any throttle
assistance), nearly as smooth as glass.  It only missed once after about 3
seconds of idling.  This car has Delo 400 in the crank and NOT Mobile 1 like my
SD which can be a tad more rough to start when it's that cold.  Sounds to me
like the compression is ok.
I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts from Rusty
to rebuild the vacuum pump.  Though I still cannot see how 1 qt every 300 miles
can disappear through just the vacuum system.


-- 
Luther   KB5QHUAlma, Ark
'87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case?
'83 300SD (241 kmi)
'82 300CD (162 kmi)
'82 300D  (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work
'85 300D (280,176) parts car