Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
There is no such valve on the return lines. Its just a hole into the oil pan. Luther wrote: Turbo was from the '82 300D with 74kmi in unknown condition. Both the original turbo and the current one have no axial play but do have slight side to side. Tell me more about the foot valve. Is there one on the turbo oil return line also? Luther -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, (2x) 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
Have you verified the amount of blowby your engine produces? You may also want to temporarily divert the blowby hose to a coffee can and drive a bit to see how much oil is blowing over. If there is a foot valve in the return line (and there has to be something, else the system wouldn't work very well), it will be on the end of the tube. Peter
Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
If there is a foot valve in the return line (and there has to be something, else the system wouldn't work very well), it will be on the end of the tube. It's pneumatics. Both top and bottom of the oil separator are exposed to crankcase pressures. Gravity breaks the tie vote. (The hose to the top is also larger diameter, that may also have an effect.) -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
What is the condition of the oil trap in the air filter? I believe you said it was OK, but don't remember. If split or leaking, it will dump quite a bit of oil down the intake -- ditto if the valve at the bottom of the return tube is bad, it can actually suck oil up out of the crankcase at road speeds. Bad turbo is the next suspect -- these engines will burn very large amounts of oil without smoke if it happens under load and not idle. Peter
Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
WHA? Valve at the bottom of the return tube? Didn't know there was one there..are you talking oil return tube??? The oil trap was swapped out with one from the 74kmi '82 300D and no change. Turbo has been swapped also. On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:54:06 -0600, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the condition of the oil trap in the air filter? I believe you said it was OK, but don't remember. If split or leaking, it will dump quite a bit of oil down the intake -- ditto if the valve at the bottom of the return tube is bad, it can actually suck oil up out of the crankcase at road speeds. Bad turbo is the next suspect -- these engines will burn very large amounts of oil without smoke if it happens under load and not idle. Peter -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work '85 300D (280,176) parts car
Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
Yup, there is supposed to be a foot valve on the air filter oil return line, I do believe (although I've been wrong a lot lately). The guts have to be in place in the oil trap, too -- it's a centrifugal filter, so the inlet pipe must be at an angle. Don't remember what it looks like any more, but it's not just a metal box. Was that a NEW or REBUILT turbo, or one off another car, unchecked? Oil leaking out the front seal will get burned, and you will have to dump HUGE quantities in there to see smoke. Out the back, you get blue smoke on acceleration. Check the rotation of the compressor wheel with the engine off (and check for excessive oil at the same time) -- it must turn freely with light finger pressure, with no axial play (a bit of side to side play is acceptable, they are floating bearings), and NO binding in rotation. Stiff spots, however slight, indicate toasted bearings and seals. A gasser turbo will spin for a long time after you flip it with a finger, but in my limited experience, MB diesel turbos are a bit stiffer and won't spin if you flip the wheel. They do rotate with light fingertip pressure. If it takes much effort to move turn the compressor wheel, the bearings (and seals) are shot. Peter
[MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
Ok, so it's an old subject, but Kaleb's posted the question to me several times about the cold starting on this car. This morning it was 13 degrees when I left for work. Glowed for 15 seconds (counted by the ticking of the dash clock) and turned the starter right after the glow light went out for 1-1.5 seconds, and it fired up and began to idle at 600 rpm (without any throttle assistance), nearly as smooth as glass. It only missed once after about 3 seconds of idling. This car has Delo 400 in the crank and NOT Mobile 1 like my SD which can be a tad more rough to start when it's that cold. Sounds to me like the compression is ok. I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts from Rusty to rebuild the vacuum pump. Though I still cannot see how 1 qt every 300 miles can disappear through just the vacuum system. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work '85 300D (280,176) parts car
Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
Luther wrote: Ok, so it's an old subject, but Kaleb's posted the question to me several times about the cold starting on this car. This morning it was 13 degrees when I left for work. Glowed for 15 seconds (counted by the ticking of the dash clock) and turned the starter right after the glow light went out for 1-1.5 seconds, and it fired up and began to idle at 600 rpm (without any throttle assistance), nearly as smooth as glass. It only missed once after about 3 seconds of idling. This car has Delo 400 in the crank and NOT Mobile 1 like my SD which can be a tad more rough to start when it's that cold. Sounds to me like the compression is ok. I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts from Rusty to rebuild the vacuum pump. Though I still cannot see how 1 qt every 300 miles can disappear through just the vacuum system. Figure out where the vacuum pump exhaust goes (into the air filter? in most 123s diesels I think) and that's where a bad vacuum pump sends most of the oil. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
Look in the air filter, you should see gobs of oil in there from where the line from the vac pump goes in. If not, then there is some other problem with where the oil is going. I have a writeup here on rebuilding my vac pump. http://www.constructivity.net/rebuilding_the_vacuum_pump.htm Have fun, don't forget the loctite on the little screw that holds the diaphragm on the shaft. --R Marshall Booth wrote: Luther wrote: I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts from Rusty to rebuild the vacuum pump. Though I still cannot see how 1 qt every 300 miles can disappear through just the vacuum system. Figure out where the vacuum pump exhaust goes (into the air filter? in most 123s diesels I think) and that's where a bad vacuum pump sends most of the oil. Marshall
Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
Really, I've seen that hose on the older non turbo 123's, but haven't noticed one on my CD. I'll have a look tonight after work. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work '85 300D (280,176) parts car Quoting Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Luther wrote: Ok, so it's an old subject, but Kaleb's posted the question to me several times about the cold starting on this car. This morning it was 13 degrees when I left for work. Glowed for 15 seconds (counted by the ticking of the dash clock) and turned the starter right after the glow light went out for 1-1.5 seconds, and it fired up and began to idle at 600 rpm (without any throttle assistance), nearly as smooth as glass. It only missed once after about 3 seconds of idling. This car has Delo 400 in the crank and NOT Mobile 1 like my SD which can be a tad more rough to start when it's that cold. Sounds to me like the compression is ok. I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts from Rusty to rebuild the vacuum pump. Though I still cannot see how 1 qt every 300 miles can disappear through just the vacuum system. Figure out where the vacuum pump exhaust goes (into the air filter? in most 123s diesels I think) and that's where a bad vacuum pump sends most of the oil. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
Nope, no gobs of oil in the air cleaner. No vent out of the vacuum pump, only the main hard vacuum line. My vacuum pump looks identical to the one in Hans's 300SD. I'm still not convinced where the oil is going.. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work '85 300D (280,176) parts car Quoting Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Look in the air filter, you should see gobs of oil in there from where the line from the vac pump goes in. If not, then there is some other problem with where the oil is going. I have a writeup here on rebuilding my vac pump. http://www.constructivity.net/rebuilding_the_vacuum_pump.htm Have fun, don't forget the loctite on the little screw that holds the diaphragm on the shaft. --R Marshall Booth wrote: Luther wrote: I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts from Rusty to rebuild the vacuum pump. Though I still cannot see how 1 qt every 300 miles can disappear through just the vacuum system. Figure out where the vacuum pump exhaust goes (into the air filter? in most 123s diesels I think) and that's where a bad vacuum pump sends most of the oil. Marshall
Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
I'm still not convinced where the oil is going.. It's burnin', burnin', burnin'! Either that or there's some kid sucking it out at night while you're sleeping. Seriously, oil in the vac lines could be the source of the problem. You still haven't found any obvious signs of oil anywhere on the engine or under the car? I don't think that your engine is worn out! I sure hope that you get to the bottom of this soon. Kevin in Hillsboro OR 1983 300SD 284K miles, Ursula PS. She hasn't been driven enough yet to check oil consumption.
Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
I can't see how it goes from the vacuum pump to the engine on this car. There is no vent hose to the air cleaner, the IP shutoff valve is new, and the EGR is blocked off. Where else is there to loose oil? Could it be an IP seal sucking oil in and mixing it with the fuel??? -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work '85 300D (280,176) parts car Quoting Bill Wachsmuth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: That's totally what happens though. I had a blown vacuum diaphragm on one that had to be towed for a different reason and you would not believe how oil POURED out of the tailpipe! On 12/8/06, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts from Rusty to rebuild the vacuum pump. Though I still cannot see how 1 qt every 300 miles can disappear through just the vacuum system.
Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage
Luther - if there's little or no oil in the vacuum lines, and none dripping out below, none coming out the radiator overflow, then it must be burning in the combustion chambers. And its pretty close to impossible for crankcase oil to mix with fuel in the IP, so that pretty much leaves rings, pistons, and perhaps head gasket. IIRC, M-B recommends an engine rebuild when the oil consumption exceeds a quart in 600-700 miles? Werner - Original Message - From: Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Banned List [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] '82 300CD excessive oil useage I can't see how it goes from the vacuum pump to the engine on this car. There is no vent hose to the air cleaner, the IP shutoff valve is new, and the EGR is blocked off. Where else is there to loose oil? Could it be an IP seal sucking oil in and mixing it with the fuel??? -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (270,491 mi) head case? '83 300SD (241 kmi) '82 300CD (162 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) needs MAJOR engine work '85 300D (280,176) parts car Quoting Bill Wachsmuth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: That's totally what happens though. I had a blown vacuum diaphragm on one that had to be towed for a different reason and you would not believe how oil POURED out of the tailpipe! On 12/8/06, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am seeing a small amount of oil in the vacuum lines and have parts from Rusty to rebuild the vacuum pump. Though I still cannot see how 1 qt every 300 miles can disappear through just the vacuum system. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
