Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-08 Thread Fmiser
 MG wrote:

 I don't recall ever seeing a TD without roof
 rack but I guess there must be some.

I have one.

And I have one with a rack.  I'll try to compare them come daylight.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-08 Thread MG
The sliding panel will be the same. However according to the 
parts guy the frame that it slides on will be different, due 
probably to the fastening points on the frame. Unfortunately you 
won't be able to see the difference unless you have the 
headliners off.


Manfred

From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

 MG wrote:

 I don't recall ever seeing a TD without roof
 rack but I guess there must be some.

I have one.

And I have one with a rack.  I'll try to compare them come daylight.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread MG
I'm thinking one without rust, like that's ever going to happen 
:-) since they all seem to rust to some extent, is worth around 
$200 or so to me. I can't see why Mercedes wants so much for 
simple sheet metal frame even if it does have the wind deflector 
in it already. The shipping is what would kill me on it. It would 
probably have to come by truck freight and from New York to 
Florida would be prohibitively expensive never mind the fact that 
I would probably get it all bent and twisted. The other option of 
driving up there would cost around $400 and might be worth it if 
you have a couple of good front doors with no rust. While I'm 
wishing, a half way decent set of floor mats in palomino or tan 
would be nice as would a good set or three of wood trim parts. 
Got to remember to ask the parts guy if they still make those.


So there you have my shopping list, or at least wish list.

Manfred

Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 17:04:59 -0400
From: Michael Canfield slozuk...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

I have two W123 TD's I am parting out.  I can pull the headliners 
and see
what sort of shape they are in.  Assuming I have a good one, what 
is it

worth to you?  Shipping would be from 14818.

Mike

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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread G Mann
Question:  Since this sunroof frame seems to be a fairly common problem
area, and it appears the Mercedes no longer stocks them [at any price], and
it appears to be rather simple sheetmetal assembly, why has no one tooled up
and gone into short run, aftermarket production on them?

Seems to me, pretty basic tooling would be all that was necessary. What
would be a fair market price for an all new frame? Would a production run of
, say, 200 flood the market for next 5 yrs?  If not, then how many?

I used to own a company that produced precision sheet metal components for
aircraft. Retired now but always looking for a new challenge...

Grant...
AZ...

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 5:59 AM, MG trainpain2...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I'm thinking one without rust, like that's ever going to happen :-) since
 they all seem to rust to some extent, is worth around $200 or so to me. I
 can't see why Mercedes wants so much for simple sheet metal frame even if it
 does have the wind deflector in it already. The shipping is what would kill
 me on it. It would probably have to come by truck freight and from New York
 to Florida would be prohibitively expensive never mind the fact that I would
 probably get it all bent and twisted. The other option of driving up there
 would cost around $400 and might be worth it if you have a couple of good
 front doors with no rust. While I'm wishing, a half way decent set of floor
 mats in palomino or tan would be nice as would a good set or three of wood
 trim parts. Got to remember to ask the parts guy if they still make those.

 So there you have my shopping list, or at least wish list.

 Manfred

 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 17:04:59 -0400
 From: Michael Canfield slozuk...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

 I have two W123 TD's I am parting out.  I can pull the headliners and see
 what sort of shape they are in.  Assuming I have a good one, what is it
 worth to you?  Shipping would be from 14818.

 Mike

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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread andrew strasfogel
I have owned 3 wagons that never developed any rust on or around the S/R,
and this is in a humid climate (mid Atlantic).  Are you near the coast and
subject to salty fog or rain showers??

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:10 AM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

 Question:  Since this sunroof frame seems to be a fairly common problem
 area, and it appears the Mercedes no longer stocks them [at any price], and
 it appears to be rather simple sheetmetal assembly, why has no one tooled
 up
 and gone into short run, aftermarket production on them?

 Seems to me, pretty basic tooling would be all that was necessary. What
 would be a fair market price for an all new frame? Would a production run
 of
 , say, 200 flood the market for next 5 yrs?  If not, then how many?

 I used to own a company that produced precision sheet metal components for
 aircraft. Retired now but always looking for a new challenge...

 Grant...
 AZ...

 On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 5:59 AM, MG trainpain2...@yahoo.com wrote:

  I'm thinking one without rust, like that's ever going to happen :-) since
  they all seem to rust to some extent, is worth around $200 or so to me. I
  can't see why Mercedes wants so much for simple sheet metal frame even if
 it
  does have the wind deflector in it already. The shipping is what would
 kill
  me on it. It would probably have to come by truck freight and from New
 York
  to Florida would be prohibitively expensive never mind the fact that I
 would
  probably get it all bent and twisted. The other option of driving up
 there
  would cost around $400 and might be worth it if you have a couple of good
  front doors with no rust. While I'm wishing, a half way decent set of
 floor
  mats in palomino or tan would be nice as would a good set or three of
 wood
  trim parts. Got to remember to ask the parts guy if they still make
 those.
 
  So there you have my shopping list, or at least wish list.
 
  Manfred
 
  Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 17:04:59 -0400
  From: Michael Canfield slozuk...@gmail.com
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame
 
  I have two W123 TD's I am parting out.  I can pull the headliners and see
  what sort of shape they are in.  Assuming I have a good one, what is it
  worth to you?  Shipping would be from 14818.
 
  Mike
 
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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread Mitch Haley

andrew strasfogel wrote:

I have owned 3 wagons that never developed any rust on or around the S/R,
and this is in a humid climate (mid Atlantic).  Are you near the coast and
subject to salty fog or rain showers??


I bet if a car has sat out in the rain a lot, especially if it's ever had 
clogged S/R drains, it's got rusty S/R parts in it. If it's garage kept, what 
could possibly go wrong up there?


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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread andrew strasfogel
Good point about clogged S/R drains.  Every one of my 300TDs had this
problem, and it isn't easy to unclog them.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 andrew strasfogel wrote:

 I have owned 3 wagons that never developed any rust on or around the S/R,
 and this is in a humid climate (mid Atlantic).  Are you near the coast and
 subject to salty fog or rain showers??


 I bet if a car has sat out in the rain a lot, especially if it's ever had
 clogged S/R drains, it's got rusty S/R parts in it. If it's garage kept,
 what could possibly go wrong up there?


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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread MG
I've seen a few people on other lists asking about them but if 
200 would flood the market? No idea. It may be enough for 5 years 
if the news gets out to the lists and resellers and maybe even MB 
classic car parts supply. If anyone knows someone there rather 
well it might be interesting to find out how many requests they 
have for 123 TD sunroof frames.


If you can supply new ones for 2-300 I'm sure there would be a 
market. Probably for the sedans even more so then for the TDs.


Manfred

From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

Question:  Since this sunroof frame seems to be a fairly common 
problem
area, and it appears the Mercedes no longer stocks them [at any 
price], and
it appears to be rather simple sheetmetal assembly, why has no 
one tooled up

and gone into short run, aftermarket production on them?

Seems to me, pretty basic tooling would be all that was 
necessary. What
would be a fair market price for an all new frame? Would a 
production run of

, say, 200 flood the market for next 5 yrs?  If not, then how many?

I used to own a company that produced precision sheet metal 
components for

aircraft. Retired now but always looking for a new challenge...

Grant...

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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread MG
This one may have been and that could well be a big part of it. 
Though the frame being in a place where it does get wet when it 
rains but doesn't easily dry out has a lot more chance of rusting 
then the outside of the car itself.





From: andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame


I have owned 3 wagons that never developed any rust on or around 
the S/R,
and this is in a humid climate (mid Atlantic).  Are you near the 
coast and

subject to salty fog or rain showers??

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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread G Mann
That raised yet another question.

Is the same part used across the model, in 2 dr. , 4 dr, TD. ?  Or is it
model specific requiring more production headaches?

Thanks,
Grant..
AZ...

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:01 AM, MG trainpain2...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I've seen a few people on other lists asking about them but if 200 would
 flood the market? No idea. It may be enough for 5 years if the news gets out
 to the lists and resellers and maybe even MB classic car parts supply. If
 anyone knows someone there rather well it might be interesting to find out
 how many requests they have for 123 TD sunroof frames.

 If you can supply new ones for 2-300 I'm sure there would be a market.
 Probably for the sedans even more so then for the TDs.

 Manfred

 From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

 Question:  Since this sunroof frame seems to be a fairly common problem
 area, and it appears the Mercedes no longer stocks them [at any price], and
 it appears to be rather simple sheetmetal assembly, why has no one tooled
 up
 and gone into short run, aftermarket production on them?

 Seems to me, pretty basic tooling would be all that was necessary. What
 would be a fair market price for an all new frame? Would a production run
 of
 , say, 200 flood the market for next 5 yrs?  If not, then how many?

 I used to own a company that produced precision sheet metal components for
 aircraft. Retired now but always looking for a new challenge...

 Grant...

 __**_
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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 http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread andrew strasfogel
I'll bet a  W123 240D manual s/r frame would be interchangeable, and those
are relatively plentiful.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 1:30 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:

 That raised yet another question.

 Is the same part used across the model, in 2 dr. , 4 dr, TD. ?  Or is it
 model specific requiring more production headaches?

 Thanks,
 Grant..
 AZ...

 On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:01 AM, MG trainpain2...@yahoo.com wrote:

  I've seen a few people on other lists asking about them but if 200 would
  flood the market? No idea. It may be enough for 5 years if the news gets
 out
  to the lists and resellers and maybe even MB classic car parts supply. If
  anyone knows someone there rather well it might be interesting to find
 out
  how many requests they have for 123 TD sunroof frames.
 
  If you can supply new ones for 2-300 I'm sure there would be a market.
  Probably for the sedans even more so then for the TDs.
 
  Manfred
 
  From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame
 
  Question:  Since this sunroof frame seems to be a fairly common problem
  area, and it appears the Mercedes no longer stocks them [at any price],
 and
  it appears to be rather simple sheetmetal assembly, why has no one tooled
  up
  and gone into short run, aftermarket production on them?
 
  Seems to me, pretty basic tooling would be all that was necessary. What
  would be a fair market price for an all new frame? Would a production run
  of
  , say, 200 flood the market for next 5 yrs?  If not, then how many?
 
  I used to own a company that produced precision sheet metal components
 for
  aircraft. Retired now but always looking for a new challenge...
 
  Grant...
 
  __**_
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 http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread Allan Streib
The sunroof mechanicals were made by Webasto I believe; I would guess they 
would be the same across different configurations of the same basic chassis.  
But don't know for sure.

Allan


On Friday, October 07, 2011 10:30 AM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:
 That raised yet another question.
 
 Is the same part used across the model, in 2 dr. , 4 dr, TD. ?  Or is it
 model specific requiring more production headaches?
 
 Thanks,
 Grant..
 AZ...
 

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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread Dan Penoff
I can confirm that Webasto was the manufacturer.

I have to believe they would be the same regardless of the chassis. Makes 
sense, and there is really nothing unique about the sedan or wagon relative to 
the sunroof.

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 7, 2011, at 1:37 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

 The sunroof mechanicals were made by Webasto I believe; I would guess they 
 would be the same across different configurations of the same basic chassis.  
 But don't know for sure.
 
 Allan
 
 
 On Friday, October 07, 2011 10:30 AM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote:
 That raised yet another question.
 
 Is the same part used across the model, in 2 dr. , 4 dr, TD. ?  Or is it
 model specific requiring more production headaches?
 
 Thanks,
 Grant..
 AZ...
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
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 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread G Mann
So, one size fits all then?
That makes it easy for an aftermarket production run, if there is such a
market.

Grant...
AZ...

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I can confirm that Webasto was the manufacturer.

 I have to believe they would be the same regardless of the chassis. Makes
 sense, and there is really nothing unique about the sedan or wagon relative
 to the sunroof.

 Dan

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 7, 2011, at 1:37 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

  The sunroof mechanicals were made by Webasto I believe; I would guess
 they would be the same across different configurations of the same basic
 chassis.  But don't know for sure.
 
  Allan
 
 
  On Friday, October 07, 2011 10:30 AM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  That raised yet another question.
 
  Is the same part used across the model, in 2 dr. , 4 dr, TD. ?  Or is it
  model specific requiring more production headaches?
 
  Thanks,
  Grant..
  AZ...
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread MG
They are different between the sedan and TD and even more there 
is apparently even a version for with and without roof rack on 
the TD. I don't recall ever seeing a TD without roof rack but I 
guess there must be some. The sedan you can see has a curved roof 
and the TD is more flat from front to back. They may be the same 
for 4 dr. and 2 dr. sedan as the roof is probably the same 
curvature. The 240 manual frame is probably also different from 
the motorized frame and because of the curved roof it won't work 
on the TD either. There are in any case different part numbers 
for all of the different models according to the parts guy who 
looked all that up to try and see if another model had the same 
frame.


Manfred

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 10:30:25 -0700
From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

That raised yet another question.

Is the same part used across the model, in 2 dr. , 4 dr, TD. ? 
Or is it

model specific requiring more production headaches?

Thanks,
Grant..
AZ...

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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-07 Thread MG
No there is nothing different in the sunroof panel itself other 
then the difference between the activating linkages of the manual 
and motorized versions. The big difference is in the support 
frame that the panel slides on which is dependent on the 
curvature of the roof and apparently fastening points. According 
to the external measurements I made even the sunroof panels from 
the SD are the same but I'm not looking for the sliding panel.


Manfred

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 13:39:01 -0400
From: Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

I can confirm that Webasto was the manufacturer.

I have to believe they would be the same regardless of the 
chassis. Makes sense, and there is really nothing unique about 
the sedan or wagon relative to the sunroof.


Dan


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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-06 Thread astrasfogel
What won't work?  Doesn't close?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: M G trainpain2...@yahoo.com
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 19:32:52 
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

OK Looks like I need a sunroof frame for a 123 TD. 
that's the part mounted under the roof that the sun roof slides on and the 
drain hoses connect to. The one on the new car is all gone on one side. Seems 
that Mercedes does not have any and has no plans to produce new ones so my only 
option is to find one from a car that is being parted out. If anyone runs 
across one in the southeast please let me know.

Manfred


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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-06 Thread MG
The frame under the roof that holds the sliding panel is badly 
rusted so much so that the only two options are a new frame, 
requiring the removal of the headliner or just weld the sliding 
roof closed and blend it into the roof with body filler. The bad 
part is Mercedes no longer makes the frame (about $900 each if 
they were available).


Manfred



Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 14:58:37 +
From: astrasfo...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

What won't work?  Doesn't close?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


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Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-06 Thread Michael Canfield
I have two W123 TD's I am parting out.  I can pull the headliners and see
what sort of shape they are in.  Assuming I have a good one, what is it
worth to you?  Shipping would be from 14818.

Mike
On Oct 6, 2011 4:20 PM, MG trainpain2...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The frame under the roof that holds the sliding panel is badly
 rusted so much so that the only two options are a new frame,
 requiring the removal of the headliner or just weld the sliding
 roof closed and blend it into the roof with body filler. The bad
 part is Mercedes no longer makes the frame (about $900 each if
 they were available).

 Manfred



 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 14:58:37 +
 From: astrasfo...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

 What won't work? Doesn't close?
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


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[MBZ] 123 TD sunroof frame

2011-10-05 Thread M G
OK Looks like I need a sunroof frame for a 123 TD. 
that's the part mounted under the roof that the sun roof slides on and the 
drain hoses connect to. The one on the new car is all gone on one side. Seems 
that Mercedes does not have any and has no plans to produce new ones so my only 
option is to find one from a car that is being parted out. If anyone runs 
across one in the southeast please let me know.

Manfred


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