Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 19:05:34 -0400 Max Dillon via Mercedes
 wrote:

> So does one have to super insulate the water pipes to make the thermal
> siphon effective?

No, but ordinary pipe insulation does help.

We had such an arrangement in our last house in Colorado Springs.

The kitchen was above the utility room in the basement. The line from the
hot water tank was insulated and then at the kitchen faucet a tee enabled
another copper line to go back to the hot water heater's drain valve
(which had been removed and a tee inserted to allow both the drain valve
and the returning copper line).

The heat loss from the bare copper return pipe slightly cooled down the
water in it making its density slightly greater than the water in the
insulated supply pipe, thus causing the thermally-induced circulation.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

You can, but it doesn’t make a lot of difference I believe. The thermal 
siphoning is really what’s making it move the water.

-D
 
> On Oct 10, 2019, at 7:05 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> So does one have to super insulate the water pipes to make the thermal siphon 
> effective?
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

So does one have to super insulate the water pipes to make the thermal siphon 
effective?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC

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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 10, 2019 at 5:32 PM Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> > and no 220 wiring hassle at each faucet.
> 
> Que?  We have a small 110V tank heater under the kitchen
> sink, it's fabulous.  We're on our third one, they die (leak)
> after 10 years or so.
> 
> No 220V, and no waiting for hot water.  It's instant, and low
> power.  By the time the little tank is exhausted, the feed (from
> the main hot water line) is up to temperature.
> 
> -- Jim
> 

You've got a 1KW mini tank.
Everybody else was talking about high wattage point of use tankless.
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> and no 220 wiring hassle at each faucet.

Que?  We have a small 110V tank heater under the kitchen
sink, it's fabulous.  We're on our third one, they die (leak)
after 10 years or so.

No 220V, and no waiting for hot water.  It's instant, and low
power.  By the time the little tank is exhausted, the feed (from
the main hot water line) is up to temperature.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I did the same in the massive monolith we lived in in Indiana. The farthest 
upstairs bathroom was nearly 80 linear feet away measuring the pipe.  Just 
plumbed in a line parallel to the manifold that ran across the basement ceiling 
with a “T” and down to a “T” I installed behind the drain valve of the water 
heater. It thermal cycled hot water through about 40 of the 80 foot run, so the 
youngest son didn’t have to run 20 gallons of water until he got hot water… 
crude but effective.

-D


> On Oct 10, 2019, at 3:51 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 10/10/2019 2:34 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
>> IF, you were in a commercial operation, where instant hot water on demand
>> was frequently required, perhaps it would be "cost vs investment return"
>> practical.
>> However, in a household setting, unlikely.
>> The time it takes to get hot water to the tap to wash your hands, unless
>> your personal time is in the $500 per hr range, is likely time vs
>> investment a "wash".
>> 
>> If instant hot water at the tap is truly a demand, perhaps a hot water
>> circulation system is a more practical investment. Where a pump, or pumps,
>> draw water from hot water tank, keep it in circulation at the faucets, for
>> instant demand hot water...
>> Somewhat lower cost / investment, and no 220 wiring hassle at each faucet.
>> However, the recirc pump system will require ongoing costs, maintenance,
>> and replacement.
>> So, as the saying goes, "nothing is for free"
>> 
>> 
> We have a thermal siphon setup. 
> https://www.buellinspections.com/re-circulating-hot-water/ 
> 
> 
> The HWT is in the basement and we have a return line from the bathroom on the 
> 2nd floor. It works quite well. There is no doubt some cost in re-heating the 
> circulating water but there are no pumps etc to run or to replace. When we 
> were re-doing the bath a few years back, I took the opportunity to run a 3rd 
> line back to the HWT. It is pex, so flexible and all one piece for something 
> like 60 or more feet.
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 10/10/2019 2:34 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

IF, you were in a commercial operation, where instant hot water on demand
was frequently required, perhaps it would be "cost vs investment return"
practical.
However, in a household setting, unlikely.
The time it takes to get hot water to the tap to wash your hands, unless
your personal time is in the $500 per hr range, is likely time vs
investment a "wash".

If instant hot water at the tap is truly a demand, perhaps a hot water
circulation system is a more practical investment. Where a pump, or pumps,
draw water from hot water tank, keep it in circulation at the faucets, for
instant demand hot water...
Somewhat lower cost / investment, and no 220 wiring hassle at each faucet.
However, the recirc pump system will require ongoing costs, maintenance,
and replacement.
So, as the saying goes, "nothing is for free"


We have a thermal siphon setup. 
https://www.buellinspections.com/re-circulating-hot-water/


The HWT is in the basement and we have a return line from the bathroom 
on the 2nd floor. It works quite well. There is no doubt some cost in 
re-heating the circulating water but there are no pumps etc to run or to 
replace. When we were re-doing the bath a few years back, I took the 
opportunity to run a 3rd line back to the HWT. It is pex, so flexible 
and all one piece for something like 60 or more feet.


Randy


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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[G Mann via Mercedes]

IF, you were in a commercial operation, where instant hot water on demand
was frequently required, perhaps it would be "cost vs investment return"
practical.
However, in a household setting, unlikely.
The time it takes to get hot water to the tap to wash your hands, unless
your personal time is in the $500 per hr range, is likely time vs
investment a "wash".

If instant hot water at the tap is truly a demand, perhaps a hot water
circulation system is a more practical investment. Where a pump, or pumps,
draw water from hot water tank, keep it in circulation at the faucets, for
instant demand hot water...
Somewhat lower cost / investment, and no 220 wiring hassle at each faucet.
However, the recirc pump system will require ongoing costs, maintenance,
and replacement.
So, as the saying goes, "nothing is for free"


On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 12:17 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> In my limited investigation, the cost of running 220V to all of those water
> heaters was prohibitive, making it a no-go project.
>
> On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 6:39 AM Larry Turner via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Speaking of water supply and such, has anyone done a study comparing the
> > payback of installing "instant-on water heaters" at, say, 4 or 5 water
> > users (bathrooms, sinks, etc) Vs a central water heater?
> >
> > I haven't done a google search yet but will do so later today.  In the
> > mean time I thought the brain trust might have already analyzed this
> issue.
> >
> > TIA,
> > LarryT
> >
> > On 10/8/2019 11:47 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
> > > Which brings up the array of 12 vacuum solenoid valves used in ACC 3.
> > > What could ever go wrong? But most of them did make it out of warranty
> > > period.Speaking of overcomplicated.
> > >
> > > Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote on 10/8/19 6:56 PM:
> > >> Yes!
> > >> -- Max Dillon Charleston SC On October 8, 2019 7:39:41 PM EDT, Curley
> > >> McLain via Mercedes  wrote:
> > >>> Solenoid valve.   Gotta run everything with proprietary PCBs and
> crappy
> > >>>
> > >>> software.   Can't have manual valves any more.Never do with a $10
> > >>> valve when you can do it with a $1500 'lektronic gizmo. 
> > >
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> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[OK Don via Mercedes]

In my limited investigation, the cost of running 220V to all of those water
heaters was prohibitive, making it a no-go project.

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 6:39 AM Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Speaking of water supply and such, has anyone done a study comparing the
> payback of installing "instant-on water heaters" at, say, 4 or 5 water
> users (bathrooms, sinks, etc) Vs a central water heater?
>
> I haven't done a google search yet but will do so later today.  In the
> mean time I thought the brain trust might have already analyzed this issue.
>
> TIA,
> LarryT
>
> On 10/8/2019 11:47 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
> > Which brings up the array of 12 vacuum solenoid valves used in ACC 3.
> > What could ever go wrong? But most of them did make it out of warranty
> > period.Speaking of overcomplicated.
> >
> > Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote on 10/8/19 6:56 PM:
> >> Yes!
> >> -- Max Dillon Charleston SC On October 8, 2019 7:39:41 PM EDT, Curley
> >> McLain via Mercedes  wrote:
> >>> Solenoid valve.   Gotta run everything with proprietary PCBs and crappy
> >>>
> >>> software.   Can't have manual valves any more.Never do with a $10
> >>> valve when you can do it with a $1500 'lektronic gizmo. 
> >
> > ___
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>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

Speaking of water supply and such, has anyone done a study comparing the 
payback of installing "instant-on water heaters" at, say, 4 or 5 water 
users (bathrooms, sinks, etc) Vs a central water heater?


I haven't done a google search yet but will do so later today.  In the 
mean time I thought the brain trust might have already analyzed this issue.


TIA,
LarryT

On 10/8/2019 11:47 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Which brings up the array of 12 vacuum solenoid valves used in ACC 3. 
What could ever go wrong? But most of them did make it out of warranty 
period.    Speaking of overcomplicated.


Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote on 10/8/19 6:56 PM:

Yes!
-- Max Dillon Charleston SC On October 8, 2019 7:39:41 PM EDT, Curley 
McLain via Mercedes  wrote:

Solenoid valve.   Gotta run everything with proprietary PCBs and crappy

software.   Can't have manual valves any more.    Never do with a $10
valve when you can do it with a $1500 'lektronic gizmo. 


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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Which brings up the array of 12 vacuum solenoid valves used in ACC 3.   
What could ever go wrong? But most of them did make it out of warranty 
period.    Speaking of overcomplicated.


Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote on 10/8/19 6:56 PM:

Yes!
-- Max Dillon Charleston SC On October 8, 2019 7:39:41 PM EDT, Curley 
McLain via Mercedes  wrote:

Solenoid valve.   Gotta run everything with proprietary PCBs and crappy

software.   Can't have manual valves any more.    Never do with a $10
valve when you can do it with a $1500 'lektronic gizmo.  


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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Yes!
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC

On October 8, 2019 7:39:41 PM EDT, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>Solenoid valve.   Gotta run everything with proprietary PCBs and crappy
>
>software.   Can't have manual valves any more.    Never do with a $10 
>valve when you can do it with a $1500 'lektronic gizmo.  
>
>Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote on 10/8/19 4:34 PM:
>> Gate, ball, globe.  What is the next level, universe valve?  ;)
>>
>> "This button shuts off the water, and this button destroys the world.
>> Don't confuse them."
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Solenoid valve.   Gotta run everything with proprietary PCBs and crappy 
software.   Can't have manual valves any more.    Never do with a $10 
valve when you can do it with a $1500 'lektronic gizmo.  


Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote on 10/8/19 4:34 PM:

Gate, ball, globe.  What is the next level, universe valve?  ;)

"This button shuts off the water, and this button destroys the world.
Don't confuse them."
-
Max
Charleston SC





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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

As Wilton would say, "Zackly!"   +1

ned kleinhenz via Mercedes wrote on 10/8/19 2:52 PM:

If ball valves don't hold up well and are difficult to repair/replace, try
globe valves.  Globe valves can almost always be taken apart and rebuilt
without removal from the line.   Gate valves are typically used in large
diameter applications, they have almost no flow resistance when wide open,
but don't throttle very well, and usually don't seal tight when closed.
Ball valves have very little flow resistance when open, don't hold up well
when used for throttling and are practical mostly in smaller diameter
applications.  Globe valves are intended for throttling but have
relatively more flow resistance when wide open.  Most older houses I've
lived in used globe valve for line isolation.
Ned Kleinhenz
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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I see, the good old fashioned faucets with the nut on top to tighten the 
packing around the stem, and the "washer" inside that the stem pushes into the 
seat, are globe valves.

Ball valves have a round ball with a hole bored through it, when open the bore 
lines up with the flow, turn it 90° and it shuts off. 
Mitch.
> On October 8, 2019 at 7:08 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>  I had never heard that term before so I looked it up. What I've been 
> installing in our house are globe valves.

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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I had never heard that term before so I looked it up. What I've been 
installing in our house are globe valves.
-Curt

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019, 3:53:11 PM EDT, ned kleinhenz via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 If ball valves don't hold up well and are difficult to repair/replace, try
globe valves.  Globe valves can almost always be taken apart and rebuilt
without removal from the line.  Gate valves are typically used in large
diameter applications, they have almost no flow resistance when wide open,
but don't throttle very well, and usually don't seal tight when closed.
Ball valves have very little flow resistance when open, don't hold up well
when used for throttling and are practical mostly in smaller diameter
applications.  Globe valves are intended for throttling but have
relatively more flow resistance when wide open.  Most older houses I've
lived in used globe valve for line isolation.
Ned Kleinhenz
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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 17:34:58 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Gate, ball, globe.  What is the next level, universe valve?  ;)

Actually, the next level is solar system ...


> "This button shuts off the water, and this button destroys the world.
> Don't confuse them."

Indeed.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Gate, ball, globe.  What is the next level, universe valve?  ;)

"This button shuts off the water, and this button destroys the world.
Don't confuse them."
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 3:53 PM ned kleinhenz via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If ball valves don't hold up well and are difficult to repair/replace, try
> globe valves.  Globe valves can almost always be taken apart and rebuilt
> without removal from the line.   Gate valves are typically used in large
> diameter applications, they have almost no flow resistance when wide open,
> but don't throttle very well, and usually don't seal tight when closed.
> Ball valves have very little flow resistance when open, don't hold up well
> when used for throttling and are practical mostly in smaller diameter
> applications.  Globe valves are intended for throttling but have
> relatively more flow resistance when wide open.  Most older houses I've
> lived in used globe valve for line isolation.
> Ned Kleinhenz
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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[ned kleinhenz via Mercedes]

If ball valves don't hold up well and are difficult to repair/replace, try
globe valves.  Globe valves can almost always be taken apart and rebuilt
without removal from the line.   Gate valves are typically used in large
diameter applications, they have almost no flow resistance when wide open,
but don't throttle very well, and usually don't seal tight when closed.
Ball valves have very little flow resistance when open, don't hold up well
when used for throttling and are practical mostly in smaller diameter
applications.  Globe valves are intended for throttling but have
relatively more flow resistance when wide open.  Most older houses I've
lived in used globe valve for line isolation.
Ned Kleinhenz
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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Every valve type I've ever used leaks (through) once it gets old enough.
TANSTAAFL.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 10:23:52 -0500 Randy Bennell via Mercedes
 wrote:

> If I do have to swap them out, I think I will go back to gate valves.

The gate valves I have had were made with metal-to-metal sealing of the
gate to the body of the valve. The only rubber was the packing to seal
the valve stem.

These valves did not shut off 100% and let a small flow through, which
would be the same problem you have now.

Changing to PEX sounds like a good idea. I would, however, stay with ball
valves.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

I am going to switch to pex instead of copper as it is a pain to cut the 
the valves out and re-insert them into a copper line.


Randy

On 08/10/2019 10:41 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
ball valves made 40-more years ago had repair kits available.  since 
the 70s, you throw them away and buy a new one.   Sorry.  No good news 
for you!  Kits are long gone too.


Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote on 10/8/19 10:23 AM:
You all know I live where it gets really cold in the dead of winter. 
We have an outside faucet setup on the side of the house. It is a 
homemade manifold that permits me to mix hot and cold water outside. 
Inside, I have ball valves on each of the hot and cold feeder lines 
so that I can turn the outside water off for the winter. I open the 
outside valves to drain the water in the lines and all is well until 
spring. This has worked fine for 20 years or more.


Now, the ball valves do not appear to be sealing well enough - or at 
least one of them is not. The outside hose connection drips. I have 
worked the inside valves back and forth a few times in the hope that 
it will cause them to seal up but have had no success.


My guess, is that some bit of dirt or loose solder etc has gone 
through and scratched the nylon socket insert so that there is an 
ability of the water to seep past under pressure.


Anyone have any ideas on repair apart from cutting out the valves and 
replacing them? It is getting difficult to find decent quality 
valves. They all seem to be made in China now and it is difficult to 
tell if they are good or junk.


If I do have to swap them out, I think I will go back to gate valves. 
The lever action ball valves are quick to turn on and off but seem to 
suffer from some other issues as well.  I have installed them all 
over the basement so that I can turn almost any fixture or part of 
the house on or off without turning the whole house off (which is the 
way it started out) and I find that the ball valves tend to sort of 
seize up. One needs to work them periodically in order to make sure 
they can be turned off if need be.


Randy





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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

The valve seats are metal.   The rubber washers need to be replaced 
periodically.   no big deal, unless you can't get the top off the 
valve.  When you reassemble, neverseeze on the threads is always a good 
idea.  otherwise, use plumber's grease.   Use plumber's grease on the 
stem threads to prolong the life of the valve.


Some valve seats are replaceable (if the valve is old)

I had one new chinee 1/2" solder valve that had a porous body casting. 
It was ok when installed, then started to leak.  The calcium in the 
water would often plug up poor solder joints, so I thought eventually 
this valve would plug up.  It never leaked much, just enough to be 
annoying and mark the floor.   A rag wrapped around it would prevent 
drips.   I finally replaced the valve to sell the house.


Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote on 10/8/19 10:38 AM:

  I've been having this problem with the gate valves in my house. All the 
plumbing is probably 40 years old and the rubber seats have worn out so they 
won't seal. I've been slowly working my way around replacing them.
Replacements are cheap but like you I've found them to be dubious quality. Some 
I can't get the assembly apart to solder them in place. My hardware store folks 
told me to just leave them together which I have done and its been okay but I'm 
never happy about it.

A Google search suggests made in USA valves might be available but at 
tremendous cost...
-Curt





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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

ball valves made 40-more years ago had repair kits available.  since the 
70s, you throw them away and buy a new one.   Sorry.  No good news for 
you!  Kits are long gone too.


Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote on 10/8/19 10:23 AM:
You all know I live where it gets really cold in the dead of winter. 
We have an outside faucet setup on the side of the house. It is a 
homemade manifold that permits me to mix hot and cold water outside. 
Inside, I have ball valves on each of the hot and cold feeder lines so 
that I can turn the outside water off for the winter. I open the 
outside valves to drain the water in the lines and all is well until 
spring. This has worked fine for 20 years or more.


Now, the ball valves do not appear to be sealing well enough - or at 
least one of them is not. The outside hose connection drips. I have 
worked the inside valves back and forth a few times in the hope that 
it will cause them to seal up but have had no success.


My guess, is that some bit of dirt or loose solder etc has gone 
through and scratched the nylon socket insert so that there is an 
ability of the water to seep past under pressure.


Anyone have any ideas on repair apart from cutting out the valves and 
replacing them? It is getting difficult to find decent quality valves. 
They all seem to be made in China now and it is difficult to tell if 
they are good or junk.


If I do have to swap them out, I think I will go back to gate valves. 
The lever action ball valves are quick to turn on and off but seem to 
suffer from some other issues as well.  I have installed them all over 
the basement so that I can turn almost any fixture or part of the 
house on or off without turning the whole house off (which is the way 
it started out) and I find that the ball valves tend to sort of seize 
up. One needs to work them periodically in order to make sure they can 
be turned off if need be.


Randy



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Re: [MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I've been having this problem with the gate valves in my house. All the 
plumbing is probably 40 years old and the rubber seats have worn out so they 
won't seal. I've been slowly working my way around replacing them.
Replacements are cheap but like you I've found them to be dubious quality. Some 
I can't get the assembly apart to solder them in place. My hardware store folks 
told me to just leave them together which I have done and its been okay but I'm 
never happy about it. 

A Google search suggests made in USA valves might be available but at 
tremendous cost...
-Curt

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019, 11:24:43 AM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 You all know I live where it gets really cold in the dead of winter. We 
have an outside faucet setup on the side of the house. It is a homemade 
manifold that permits me to mix hot and cold water outside. Inside, I 
have ball valves on each of the hot and cold feeder lines so that I can 
turn the outside water off for the winter. I open the outside valves to 
drain the water in the lines and all is well until spring. This has 
worked fine for 20 years or more.

Now, the ball valves do not appear to be sealing well enough - or at 
least one of them is not. The outside hose connection drips. I have 
worked the inside valves back and forth a few times in the hope that it 
will cause them to seal up but have had no success.

My guess, is that some bit of dirt or loose solder etc has gone through 
and scratched the nylon socket insert so that there is an ability of the 
water to seep past under pressure.

Anyone have any ideas on repair apart from cutting out the valves and 
replacing them? It is getting difficult to find decent quality valves. 
They all seem to be made in China now and it is difficult to tell if 
they are good or junk.

If I do have to swap them out, I think I will go back to gate valves. 
The lever action ball valves are quick to turn on and off but seem to 
suffer from some other issues as well.  I have installed them all over 
the basement so that I can turn almost any fixture or part of the house 
on or off without turning the whole house off (which is the way it 
started out) and I find that the ball valves tend to sort of seize up. 
One needs to work them periodically in order to make sure they can be 
turned off if need be.

Randy


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[MBZ] Another OT question - ball valves

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

You all know I live where it gets really cold in the dead of winter. We 
have an outside faucet setup on the side of the house. It is a homemade 
manifold that permits me to mix hot and cold water outside. Inside, I 
have ball valves on each of the hot and cold feeder lines so that I can 
turn the outside water off for the winter. I open the outside valves to 
drain the water in the lines and all is well until spring. This has 
worked fine for 20 years or more.


Now, the ball valves do not appear to be sealing well enough - or at 
least one of them is not. The outside hose connection drips. I have 
worked the inside valves back and forth a few times in the hope that it 
will cause them to seal up but have had no success.


My guess, is that some bit of dirt or loose solder etc has gone through 
and scratched the nylon socket insert so that there is an ability of the 
water to seep past under pressure.


Anyone have any ideas on repair apart from cutting out the valves and 
replacing them? It is getting difficult to find decent quality valves. 
They all seem to be made in China now and it is difficult to tell if 
they are good or junk.


If I do have to swap them out, I think I will go back to gate valves. 
The lever action ball valves are quick to turn on and off but seem to 
suffer from some other issues as well.  I have installed them all over 
the basement so that I can turn almost any fixture or part of the house 
on or off without turning the whole house off (which is the way it 
started out) and I find that the ball valves tend to sort of seize up. 
One needs to work them periodically in order to make sure they can be 
turned off if need be.


Randy


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