Re: [MBZ] Cost of a Paint Job: 2'nd Quote: $4.5K

[ANGELO GIAIMO]

Sorry.I forgot to include the 2'nd price $4.5K.

Angelo Giaimo/Fishkill/IBM @ IBMUS
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(845)894-4296 (tie 533); fax: 892-6235 (tie 532);
2070 Rt. 52; Hopewell Junction, N.Y. 12533

[MBZ] Cost of a Paint Job

[Bill Aston]

Anything about these old cars that you can not accomplish  yourself is 
seldom cost-effective. High skill tasks  associated   with restoration can 
bring mucho joy to the owner but he MUST be  ready,willing  and able to pay 
the price. If the price to too dear, one must learn to do with less that 
excellent.  Plan on " pretty darn good." That can satisfy most of us. It is 
often much better than what the guy next door has.

Cheers

Bill Aston
Fort Lauderdale
1983  380SEC 




--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.2/65 - Release Date: 8/7/2005

Re: [MBZ] Cost of a paint Job...More Questions.

[Jan Guthrie]

Angelo,
Did I miss it ?

What was the second quote?

Jan

ANGELO GIAIMO wrote:

> One shop walked around the car for about 30 seconds and said "Five
> Thousand" and he might be able to squeeze me in about a month or so.  Time:
> 7-10 days to complete.   IMHO, he priced it high to get rid of me, but if I
> was willing to pay his price manage to squeeze me in.
>
> Shop #2, who I've dealt with before (also does alot of  the bodywork for
> our local MB and BMW dealers;  I've seen many Ferrari, RR's and other
> high-end and classic restorations cars there, MG's Austin-Healy's Jags,
> etc.)  spent about 30 minutes going over the car with me pointing out what
> needed to be done, after I showed him where I was concerned with rust,
> dings, etc, broke it down into detail. (Don't know if I got it all, but
> here are the main points:
>
> 1.  Rust (just starting to bubble) where the wheel wells meet the bumper
> would all be cut out and new sheetmetal rewelded in.  One quarter-sized
> rust bubble between rear licence plate and tail light.  Inspection from
> inside trunk and under the bumper shows nothing extensive.
> 2.  All trim, door handles, lower body panels, emblems,  both bumpers,
> grille, head/tail lights, side markers, etc all to be removed and
> re-installed afterwards.   I'm considering buying replacement pieces (If I
> can afford it)
> 3.  Strip entire car.  Hood, roof and trunk are real dull and the grayish
> primer is starting to show through.  Sides still shine like new, but will
> be stripped too, since he'll have several dings to fix.
> 4.  He'll also be fixing the considerable dent made by a deer last year
> which took out the right front cornering light and headlight frame.
> 5.  Paint is Spies-Hecker 2-stage. (Got the $20K color match computer.
> Matched my 2001 530i perfectly when SWMBO got whacked) Lower panels would
> be painted to match the original dull finish, if I want, or match the rest
> of the vehicle and then re-installed.
> 6.  I don't remember what he said re:door jams.  Since the front bumper,
> headlight assys and grille will be off,  I'm assuming he'll be doing the
> radiator support, but I can check.  I did show him a small rust spot near
> the bottom. Said he'd guarantee the job, but I want it in writing with a
> duration. (Is 5 years reasonable?)
> 7.  Will take him at least 2-3 weeks to complete and can start in mid
> august, which, hopefully give the paint enough time to cure.  We'll still
> be in the high 70's thru mid-september. Yes, I could do some of the work
> myself, but right now, time is at a premium, so I can't say any $$$ there.
> .
>
> But I do have a few questions:
>
> 1.  Since the hood insulation is starting to come off, what's the best way
> to handle it's replacement?  Remove it now and have the inside of the hood
> repainted first, or just remove and replace hood insulation after the
> paintwork is complete?
> 2.  What's the best way to handle the rubber seals at the trunklid and
> doorjambs?  Do they just get masked off?
> 3.  Is there a preferred way to paint the sunroof panel?
>
> And now the $64,000 question..
>
> It's still more than I wanted to spend..I figured  $3.0 K to $3.5K.
> For a car who's current value is, at most, I'm guessing..$5K-$6K,  is
> it worth it?  If I sell it, and can get $5K (doubtful) , what does $10K buy
> me today?  (Assuming I'm taking the $$ I would put into the car and invest
> it in another.) Mechanically, the car's in great shape; I'd get in it
> tomorrow and take a cross-country trip in it if I had to.
>
> Just trying to rationalize the decision..
>
> thanks.
>
> Angelo Giaimo/Fishkill/IBM @ IBMUS
> Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (845)894-4296 (tie 533); fax: 892-6235 (tie 532);
> 2070 Rt. 52; Hopewell Junction, N.Y. 12533
>
> ___
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
> For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net

[MBZ] Cost of a paint Job...More Questions.

[ANGELO GIAIMO]

One shop walked around the car for about 30 seconds and said "Five
Thousand" and he might be able to squeeze me in about a month or so.  Time:
7-10 days to complete.   IMHO, he priced it high to get rid of me, but if I
was willing to pay his price manage to squeeze me in.

Shop #2, who I've dealt with before (also does alot of  the bodywork for
our local MB and BMW dealers;  I've seen many Ferrari, RR's and other
high-end and classic restorations cars there, MG's Austin-Healy's Jags,
etc.)  spent about 30 minutes going over the car with me pointing out what
needed to be done, after I showed him where I was concerned with rust,
dings, etc, broke it down into detail. (Don't know if I got it all, but
here are the main points:

1.  Rust (just starting to bubble) where the wheel wells meet the bumper
would all be cut out and new sheetmetal rewelded in.  One quarter-sized
rust bubble between rear licence plate and tail light.  Inspection from
inside trunk and under the bumper shows nothing extensive.
2.  All trim, door handles, lower body panels, emblems,  both bumpers,
grille, head/tail lights, side markers, etc all to be removed and
re-installed afterwards.   I'm considering buying replacement pieces (If I
can afford it)
3.  Strip entire car.  Hood, roof and trunk are real dull and the grayish
primer is starting to show through.  Sides still shine like new, but will
be stripped too, since he'll have several dings to fix.
4.  He'll also be fixing the considerable dent made by a deer last year
which took out the right front cornering light and headlight frame.
5.  Paint is Spies-Hecker 2-stage. (Got the $20K color match computer.
Matched my 2001 530i perfectly when SWMBO got whacked) Lower panels would
be painted to match the original dull finish, if I want, or match the rest
of the vehicle and then re-installed.
6.  I don't remember what he said re:door jams.  Since the front bumper,
headlight assys and grille will be off,  I'm assuming he'll be doing the
radiator support, but I can check.  I did show him a small rust spot near
the bottom. Said he'd guarantee the job, but I want it in writing with a
duration. (Is 5 years reasonable?)
7.  Will take him at least 2-3 weeks to complete and can start in mid
august, which, hopefully give the paint enough time to cure.  We'll still
be in the high 70's thru mid-september. Yes, I could do some of the work
myself, but right now, time is at a premium, so I can't say any $$$ there.
.

But I do have a few questions:

1.  Since the hood insulation is starting to come off, what's the best way
to handle it's replacement?  Remove it now and have the inside of the hood
repainted first, or just remove and replace hood insulation after the
paintwork is complete?
2.  What's the best way to handle the rubber seals at the trunklid and
doorjambs?  Do they just get masked off?
3.  Is there a preferred way to paint the sunroof panel?

And now the $64,000 question..

It's still more than I wanted to spend..I figured  $3.0 K to $3.5K.
For a car who's current value is, at most, I'm guessing..$5K-$6K,  is
it worth it?  If I sell it, and can get $5K (doubtful) , what does $10K buy
me today?  (Assuming I'm taking the $$ I would put into the car and invest
it in another.) Mechanically, the car's in great shape; I'd get in it
tomorrow and take a cross-country trip in it if I had to.

Just trying to rationalize the decision..

thanks.

Angelo Giaimo/Fishkill/IBM @ IBMUS
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(845)894-4296 (tie 533); fax: 892-6235 (tie 532);
2070 Rt. 52; Hopewell Junction, N.Y. 12533

Re: [MBZ] Cost of a Paint Job

[jjayj]

Bucerias is a 2-3 day drive from Phoenix...we liked the 3 day version (which 
actually turned into more as we found great beach places on the way to and from 
to rest at-we were coming from Washington state)...It is just north of Puerto 
Villarta, and quite a drive south to Acapulco, Xtapa, etc...Toll roads are very 
good and the federal cops are a different breed than they used to be (at least 
the one i ran into)


> Where is Bucerias with respect to Ixtapa and other Pacific coast resorts?
> 
> On 8/8/05, Don & Teresa Merriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > OK here is the deal. In my home town of Bucerias Mexico we have a Mexican
> > dude that learned the trade in LA and then came back home as LA was way too
> > scary to live in. He did my 1966 Impala convertible last year. Removed all
> > the chrome, fixed all the dings, replaced the rusted out panels, labor &
> > materials $1,700 US$. 3 weeks later I had a real kool ride. You could have a
> > nice vacation & time for several cervezas. 
> > 
> > 
> > On 8/8/05, Bill Aston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> > > Just recently I had my daughter's minivan painted by a  small well known
> > > shop in South Florida. Several dings to handle. Excellent prepwork. $1800.
> > > Eight years ago the same guy did my '83 380 SEC  for $1200, no bodywork..
> > > Super work using the Pittsburgh Paint System, base coat plus clearcoat.
> > > Shop workers all in 50's or older.
> > > 
> > > Very hard to get a craftsman painter these days. While waiting for the 
> > > minivan I overheard a guy calling from Atlanta, setting up an appointment
> > to
> > > get a prized pickup painted. Comments to effect that "you can't find a
> > good
> > > car painter up here".
> > > 
> > > If you locate a good one, plan to send him a birthday card, Christmas 
> > > cigars, case of beerfading fast.
> > > Cheers !
> > > Bill Aston
> > > Fort Lauderdale
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.2 /65 - Release Date: 8/7/2005
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
> > > For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com
> > > 
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >
> > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Don & Teresa Merriman
> > Market Place Mexico
> > Vacation Rentals
> > Property Administration
> > www.marketplacemexico.com 
> > ___
> > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
> > For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
> > 
> > 
> >
> 
> ___
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
> For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net

Re: [MBZ] Cost of a Paint Job

[andrew strasfogel]

Where is Bucerias with respect to Ixtapa and other Pacific coast resorts?

On 8/8/05, Don & Teresa Merriman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK here is the deal. In my home town of Bucerias Mexico we have a Mexican
> dude that learned the trade in LA and then came back home as LA was way too
> scary to live in. He did my 1966 Impala convertible last year. Removed all
> the chrome, fixed all the dings, replaced the rusted out panels, labor &
> materials $1,700 US$. 3 weeks later I had a real kool ride. You could have a
> nice vacation & time for several cervezas. 
> 
> 
> On 8/8/05, Bill Aston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> > Just recently I had my daughter's minivan painted by a  small well known
> > shop in South Florida. Several dings to handle. Excellent prepwork. $1800.
> > Eight years ago the same guy did my '83 380 SEC  for $1200, no bodywork..
> > Super work using the Pittsburgh Paint System, base coat plus clearcoat.
> > Shop workers all in 50's or older.
> > 
> > Very hard to get a craftsman painter these days. While waiting for the 
> > minivan I overheard a guy calling from Atlanta, setting up an appointment
> to
> > get a prized pickup painted. Comments to effect that "you can't find a
> good
> > car painter up here".
> > 
> > If you locate a good one, plan to send him a birthday card, Christmas 
> > cigars, case of beerfading fast.
> > Cheers !
> > Bill Aston
> > Fort Lauderdale
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.2 /65 - Release Date: 8/7/2005
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
> > For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Don & Teresa Merriman
> Market Place Mexico
> Vacation Rentals
> Property Administration
> www.marketplacemexico.com 
> ___
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
> For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
> 
> 
>

Re: [MBZ] Cost of a Paint Job

[Don & Teresa Merriman]

OK here is the deal. In my home town of Bucerias Mexico we have a Mexican 
dude that learned the trade in LA and then came back home as LA was way too 
scary to live in. He did my 1966 Impala convertible last year. Removed all 
the chrome, fixed all the dings, replaced the rusted out panels, labor & 
materials $1,700 US$. 3 weeks later I had a real kool ride. You could have a 
nice vacation & time for several cervezas.

On 8/8/05, Bill Aston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> 
> Just recently I had my daughter's minivan painted by a small well known
> shop in South Florida. Several dings to handle. Excellent prepwork. $1800.
> Eight years ago the same guy did my '83 380 SEC for $1200, no bodywork..
> Super work using the Pittsburgh Paint System, base coat plus clearcoat.
> Shop workers all in 50's or older.
> 
> Very hard to get a craftsman painter these days. While waiting for the
> minivan I overheard a guy calling from Atlanta, setting up an appointment 
> to
> get a prized pickup painted. Comments to effect that "you can't find a 
> good
> car painter up here".
> 
> If you locate a good one, plan to send him a birthday card, Christmas
> cigars, case of beerfading fast.
> Cheers !
> Bill Aston
> Fort Lauderdale
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.2/65 - Release Date: 8/7/2005
> 
> 
> ___
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For new parts see www.buymbparts.com 
> For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com 
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
> 



-- 
Don & Teresa Merriman
Market Place Mexico
Vacation Rentals
Property Administration
www.marketplacemexico.com 

Re: [MBZ] Cost of a paint job?

[Richard Hattaway]

Pretty fair, IMO.

You are in an expensive part of the world, rust is an issue no matter
where you are, and 'stripped' means to me they are planning on removing
the old paint to the metal.

Now you can get cheaper rust repair/paint jobs.  My bet is half of your
quote should give you a presentable car.  Fix the rust, sand, prime and
paint.

At that mileage, you have another 200K before you really have to
evaluate your position on replacement, so you're spending 2.5
cents/mile on looks at the high end of your quotes (c: ..  Evaluate it
in $/mile and then make your choices.

Richard
VP - North Carolina Jalopinists Association
President - Bottom Feeders of America

( presently beginning an active campaign to maintain my national
office, feeling Charley may well overtake my comfortable margin...  )


--- ANGELO GIAIMO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm considering having my 1990 W-126 long-body repainted.  It's got a
> little over 244,000 miles and the dark  blue paint is showing it's
> age and
> it does need some minor rust repair.  Quotes have come in the $4.5K
> -$5.0K
> range from the 2 best shops in the area,  (Dutchess County, NY)  I
> realize
> that the paint job cost  to car value is high, but that's a different
> discussionbut,
> 
> How out of line are these prices in today's world for having a car 's
> rust
> repaired, stripped and re-shot?
> 
> Andoh, yes, the car is a 350SDL..
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Angelo Giaimo/Fishkill/IBM @ IBMUS
> Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (845)894-4296 (tie 533); fax: 892-6235 (tie 532);
> 2070 Rt. 52; Hopewell Junction, N.Y. 12533
> 
> 

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[MBZ] Cost of a Paint Job

[Bill Aston]

Just recently I had my daughter's minivan painted by a  small well known 
shop in South Florida. Several dings to handle. Excellent prepwork. $1800.
Eight years ago the same guy did my '83 380 SEC  for $1200, no bodywork.. 
Super work using the Pittsburgh Paint System, base coat plus clearcoat. 
Shop workers all in 50's or older.


Very hard to get a craftsman painter these days. While waiting for the 
minivan I overheard a guy calling from Atlanta, setting up an appointment to 
get a prized pickup painted. Comments to effect that "you can't find a good 
car painter up here".


If you locate a good one, plan to send him a birthday card, Christmas 
cigars, case of beerfading fast.

Cheers !
Bill Aston
Fort Lauderdale




--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.2/65 - Release Date: 8/7/2005

Re: [MBZ] Cost of a paint job?

[72benz250]

Hey Angelo,

You said it yourself "2 best shops in the area". Sounds like you're getting a 
show car painjob on it.

Maaco will paint your car for 200$. No primer, sanding, or rust repair. they'll 
just paint right over the old finish.

Remember that most of the paint job is labour. The old paint needs to be 
sanded/removed (depends on coats), rust needs to be sandblasted, bondo or weld 
& grind, primered, resanded, painted (1 or 2 stage), colour sanded and you're 
ready to go.

I'm sure I missed some parts.

Depending on how adventuresome you are you might be able to do some or all of 
this yourself, and that should cut down the final price of the paint job. Don't 
foget if you bring the car w/lights, bumpers, trim, ... you're paying to have 
someone remove them for you. You may want to ask what it would cost if you did 
all the sanding, priming and resanding, then having the car towed (thank you 
AAA) and the body shop just painting, and colour sanding.

Also remember that paint takes a while to fully harden ususaly about a month 
but temperature makes a big difference.

If it's starting to get cold you might want to wait until next year.

hope that helps.

George

-- Original message -- 

> I'm considering having my 1990 W-126 long-body repainted. It's got a 
> little over 244,000 miles and the dark blue paint is showing it's age and 
> it does need some minor rust repair. Quotes have come in the $4.5K -$5.0K 
> range from the 2 best shops in the area, (Dutchess County, NY) I realize 
> that the paint job cost to car value is high, but that's a different 
> discussionbut, 
> 
> How out of line are these prices in today's world for having a car 's rust 
> repaired, stripped and re-shot? 
> 
> Andoh, yes, the car is a 350SDL.. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Angelo Giaimo/Fishkill/IBM @ IBMUS 
> Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> (845)894-4296 (tie 533); fax: 892-6235 (tie 532); 
> 2070 Rt. 52; Hopewell Junction, N.Y. 12533 
> 
> 
> 
> ___ 
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> For new parts see www.buymbparts.com 
> For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com 
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: 
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net 

Re: [MBZ] Cost of a paint job?

[Steve MacSween]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Quotes have come in the $4.5K -$5.0K
> range from the 2 best shops in the area,  (Dutchess County, NY)  I realize
> that the paint job cost  to car value is high, but that's a different
> discussionbut,

For a quality job, guaranteed, a bit high but worth it for a job done
properly. Most of the $$$ in a good paint job goes into the preparation:

- sanding, stripping to bare metal where needed, removal of parking lot
dings and other imperfections,

-  'feather edging' (fine sanding of edges such as trunklid and hood lips,
other sharp corners to ensure good paint adhesion),

- proper cleaning of doorjambs from grease, oil, etc. to ensure a good job,
and

- removal of most or all chrome trim and doorhandles, door windlace, etc.,
and proper masking of anything left on the car (for example, the door
strikers, data stickers, etc.),

Then of course painting the door jambs, radiator support, inside lips of
fenders and trunk to make it a complete job. These last points increase the
amount of careful masking needed a lot. Shops hate it, though they hate door
jambs most.

This where the money goes. If a shop is NOT doing any of the above, then the
quote is high IMHO, but it could be that the market in your area supports
those prices.

Good quality paintwork is hard to find these days. Most shops are addicted
to the quick in and out/fast payouts/high volumes of insurance work, and
they cannot be bothered with painting older cars.

Mac

Re: [MBZ] Cost of a paint job?

[TimothyPilgrim]

I had my wagon repainted last November and it cost me $2000 Cdn, so
make that about $1600 in greenbacks. My painter gave me the choice of
a either a 1-step or a 2-step (paint and clearcoat). The 2-step cost
double the 1-step (which I believe is what came from factory) and is
more for show cars that you want to have that slick "wet" look. Of
course, I went with the 1-step and haven't regretted it. A fresh coat
of paint really makes anything look new. Oh, and that included full
stripping and repairing a large wierd spot on the driver's door, which
isn't original.

Tim
1982 300TD Moby

On 8/8/05, ANGELO GIAIMO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm considering having my 1990 W-126 long-body repainted.  It's got a
> little over 244,000 miles and the dark  blue paint is showing it's age and
> it does need some minor rust repair.  Quotes have come in the $4.5K -$5.0K
> range from the 2 best shops in the area,  (Dutchess County, NY)  I realize
> that the paint job cost  to car value is high, but that's a different
> discussionbut,
> 
> How out of line are these prices in today's world for having a car 's rust
> repaired, stripped and re-shot?
> 
> Andoh, yes, the car is a 350SDL..
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Angelo Giaimo/Fishkill/IBM @ IBMUS
> Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (845)894-4296 (tie 533); fax: 892-6235 (tie 532);
> 2070 Rt. 52; Hopewell Junction, N.Y. 12533
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
> For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>

[MBZ] Cost of a paint job?

[ANGELO GIAIMO]

I'm considering having my 1990 W-126 long-body repainted.  It's got a
little over 244,000 miles and the dark  blue paint is showing it's age and
it does need some minor rust repair.  Quotes have come in the $4.5K -$5.0K
range from the 2 best shops in the area,  (Dutchess County, NY)  I realize
that the paint job cost  to car value is high, but that's a different
discussionbut,

How out of line are these prices in today's world for having a car 's rust
repaired, stripped and re-shot?

Andoh, yes, the car is a 350SDL..

Thanks,

Angelo Giaimo/Fishkill/IBM @ IBMUS
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(845)894-4296 (tie 533); fax: 892-6235 (tie 532);
2070 Rt. 52; Hopewell Junction, N.Y. 12533