Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

I'm sure the issue will resurface.  I'll snag a new glow plug on my next order 
from an aftermarket supplier. That way I'll have one handy when I feel the need 
for some serious car repair self abuse.

-D

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 22, 2017, at 8:31 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The diagnostic circuit is not perfect, so it doesn't always tell you that
> there is a problem.  The glow plug is still bad.
> 
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Worked normally this morning. Ambient around 60F, took 25-30 seconds to
>> glow, no glow lights on the 25 minute drive to work.
>> 
>> Hmmm.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

The diagnostic circuit is not perfect, so it doesn't always tell you that
there is a problem.  The glow plug is still bad.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 6:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Worked normally this morning. Ambient around 60F, took 25-30 seconds to
> glow, no glow lights on the 25 minute drive to work.
>
> Hmmm.
>
> -D
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Worked normally this morning. Ambient around 60F, took 25-30 seconds to glow, 
no glow lights on the 25 minute drive to work.

Hmmm.

-D

> On Mar 22, 2017, at 5:23 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I did not and it does not have a fuse for the GP relay, only a strip fuse for 
> the ACC blower.
> 
> Based on the initial diagnostics it sounds like the #3 glow plug has failed.  
> The symptoms are pretty much what the manual describes - little or no glow 
> plug light on startup, glow plug light coming on for approximately a minute 
> while engine running.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:39 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Did you swap out/in the GP relay and/or fuse (if it has them)?
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I did not and it does not have a fuse for the GP relay, only a strip fuse for 
the ACC blower.

Based on the initial diagnostics it sounds like the #3 glow plug has failed.  
The symptoms are pretty much what the manual describes - little or no glow plug 
light on startup, glow plug light coming on for approximately a minute while 
engine running.

-D


> On Mar 21, 2017, at 10:39 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Did you swap out/in the GP relay and/or fuse (if it has them)?
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Did you swap out/in the GP relay and/or fuse (if it has them)?

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:32 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yeah, I bought  one or 2 sets of Beru, but normally just use the Bosch.  I
> generally replace only one at a time because the MTBF is not a narrow
> band.  Some last 20 years, some last 1.  The exception in on an OM603 if I
> am going to take off the manifold and there are at least 2 bad on a car I
> just bought.  Then I may replace all, but I save the good ones to replace
> somewhere when one goes out.
>
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>> March 21, 2017 at 7:28 PM
>> Interesting about the Beru GPs, too. They’re tough to find and about 3x
>> the cost of the Bosch. That’s what I’ll replace it with. The Bosch is about
>> a year old, I replaced them last May.
>>
>> -D
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Yeah, I bought  one or 2 sets of Beru, but normally just use the Bosch.  
I generally replace only one at a time because the MTBF is not a narrow 
band.  Some last 20 years, some last 1.  The exception in on an OM603 if 
I am going to take off the manifold and there are at least 2 bad on a 
car I just bought.  Then I may replace all, but I save the good ones to 
replace somewhere when one goes out.



Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
March 21, 2017 at 7:28 PM
Interesting about the Beru GPs, too. They’re tough to find and about 
3x the cost of the Bosch. That’s what I’ll replace it with. The Bosch 
is about a year old, I replaced them last May.


-D





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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

On the OM603 and earlier engines, I think Bosch are the best choice, that's
what I just put in my '87 wagon.  Beru is preferred for the OM606 engines
because they seem to be made of sturdier stuff (they publish a maximum
torque that can be applied when removing the plugs, haven't found that for
Bosch) and they were OE.

Oh yeah, Marshall said we had to use Bosch, you don't want to go down that
path

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Interesting about the Beru GPs, too.  They’re tough to find and about 3x
> the cost of the Bosch.  That’s what I’ll replace it with. The Bosch is
> about a year old, I replaced them last May.
>
> -D
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Didn't think the compressor was running with the high vent temperatures, so
not KLIMA if you have compressor engaging.

Did some of your refrigerant leak out?

Maybe the car just wants some attention?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 7:29 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I wondered about the KLIMA, but since I’m getting compressor operation,
> what else would it be affecting?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -D
>
> > On Mar 21, 2017, at 6:41 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Not related.  HVAC sounds like KLIMA relay or push button unit.  If your
> tachometer also died, then the OVP relay would be suspect.
> > --
> > Max Dillon
> > Charleston SC
> > '87 300TD
> > '95 E300
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Interesting about the Beru GPs, too.  They’re tough to find and about 3x the 
cost of the Bosch.  That’s what I’ll replace it with. The Bosch is about a year 
old, I replaced them last May.

-D


> On Mar 21, 2017, at 8:22 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> #3 is not the worst.  1 and 6 are easiest.
> 
>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>> March 21, 2017 at 7:04 PM
>> Did a quick resistance check:
>> 
>> 1 - 0.7 Ω
>> 2 - 0.7 Ω
>> 3 - 25 Ω
>> 4 - 0.7 Ω
>> 5 - 0.7 Ω
>> 6 - 0.7 Ω
>> 
>> So based on this I assume I have a bad #3 glow plug. Of course, as it’s 
>> probably the most difficult one to get to…
>> 
>> I may decide to live with this for a while, since cold weather starting 
>> isn’t an issue here. That is, if it doesn’t drive me nuts first.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 


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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

#3 is not the worst.  1 and 6 are easiest.


Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
March 21, 2017 at 7:04 PM
Did a quick resistance check:

1 - 0.7 Ω
2 - 0.7 Ω
3 - 25 Ω
4 - 0.7 Ω
5 - 0.7 Ω
6 - 0.7 Ω

So based on this I assume I have a bad #3 glow plug. Of course, as 
it’s probably the most difficult one to get to…


I may decide to live with this for a while, since cold weather 
starting isn’t an issue here. That is, if it doesn’t drive me nuts first.


-D




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Curley McLain 
March 21, 2017 at 5:24 PM
the GP light is an indication that you have GPs.  They are not related 
to mileage.  Beru have the reputation to last longer, but that is no 
guarantee.



Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
March 21, 2017 at 4:55 PM
The 350SDL started acting weird this morning….

No glow plug light when I went to start it up, or if it did come on it 
was only for a few seconds and I missed it. Ambient was maybe 50F, 
possibly a little warmer. About 5-10 minutes later as I’m driving down 
the street, the glow plug light comes on and stays on for a short 
time, then goes off.


Weird.

At lunch I went out and the light lit for maybe 5-10 seconds and went 
out. Again, it came on while I was driving a few minutes later for a 
short time and then went out.


Same thing on the drive home today.

As I look at the service manual, it says that one of the fault 
indicators is no preglow lamp at startup, then the light can light up 
for approximately one minute while driving. Fault: One or more glow 
plugs defective.


So I’m wondering if I’ve got a bad glow plug. I just swapped them all 
out less than 10k ago, probably even less than that.


But - there’s more…

The AC started acting up. Hot air, literally HOT air coming out of the 
vents. I checked the monovalve, it’s good. Checked the AC system, 
everything is good there as far as pressures and charge, but the low 
pressure line is not cold. High pressure is.


I put a clamp on the coolant line to the cabin to isolate the heater 
and drove the car. I can get duct temps down to about 70F and that’s 
it. Pressures are correct for the ambient temperature and humidity.


It’s almost like I was getting heat during cooling, but I’m not 
getting decent output from the system to begin with.


Both of these issues started at the same time. I can’t see how they’re 
related.


???

-D


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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Did a quick resistance check:

1 - 0.7 Ω
2 - 0.7 Ω
3 - 25 Ω
4 - 0.7 Ω
5 - 0.7 Ω
6 - 0.7 Ω

So based on this I assume I have a bad #3 glow plug. Of course, as it’s 
probably the most difficult one to get to…

I may decide to live with this for a while, since cold weather starting isn’t 
an issue here.  That is, if it doesn’t drive me nuts first.

-D

 
> On Mar 21, 2017, at 6:24 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> the GP light is an indication that you have GPs.  They are not related to 
> mileage.  Beru have the reputation to last longer, but that is no guarantee.


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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

And the tach is working.

-D

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 7:29 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> 
> I wondered about the KLIMA, but since I’m getting compressor operation, what 
> else would it be affecting?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 6:41 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Not related.  HVAC sounds like KLIMA relay or push button unit.  If your 
>> tachometer also died, then the OVP relay would be suspect.
>> -- 
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '87 300TD
>> '95 E300
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I put a set of Bosch GPs in it.  Can I check resistances from the GP relay like 
you can on OM617s?

Thanks,

-D

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 6:24 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> the GP light is an indication that you have GPs.  They are not related to 
> mileage.  Beru have the reputation to last longer, but that is no guarantee.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I wondered about the KLIMA, but since I’m getting compressor operation, what 
else would it be affecting?

Thanks,

-D

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 6:41 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Not related.  HVAC sounds like KLIMA relay or push button unit.  If your 
> tachometer also died, then the OVP relay would be suspect.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300


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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Not related.  HVAC sounds like KLIMA relay or push button unit.  If your 
tachometer also died, then the OVP relay would be suspect.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On March 21, 2017 5:55:29 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>The 350SDL started acting weird this morning….
>
>No glow plug light when I went to start it up, or if it did come on it
>was only for a few seconds and I missed it.  Ambient was maybe 50F,
>possibly a little warmer.  About 5-10 minutes later as I’m driving down
>the street, the glow plug light comes on and stays on for a short time,
>then goes off.
>
>Weird.
>
>At lunch I went out and the light lit for maybe 5-10 seconds and went
>out.  Again, it came on while I was driving a few minutes later for a
>short time and then went out.
>
>Same thing on the drive home today.
>
>As I look at the service manual, it says that one of the fault
>indicators is no preglow lamp at startup, then the light can light up
>for approximately one minute while driving.  Fault: One or more glow
>plugs defective.
>
>So I’m wondering if I’ve got a bad glow plug.  I just swapped them all
>out less than 10k ago, probably even less than that.
>
>But - there’s more…
>
>The AC started acting up.  Hot air, literally HOT air coming out of the
>vents.  I checked the monovalve, it’s good.  Checked the AC system,
>everything is good there as far as pressures and charge, but the low
>pressure line is not cold.  High pressure is.
>
>I put a clamp on the coolant line to the cabin to isolate the heater
>and drove the car.  I can get duct temps down to about 70F and that’s
>it.  Pressures are correct for the ambient temperature and humidity.
>
>It’s almost like I was getting heat during cooling, but I’m not getting
>decent output from the system to begin with.
>
>Both of these issues started at the same time.  I can’t see how they’re
>related.
>
>???
>
>-D
>
>
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

the GP light is an indication that you have GPs.  They are not related 
to mileage.  Beru have the reputation to last longer, but that is no 
guarantee.



Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
March 21, 2017 at 4:55 PM
The 350SDL started acting weird this morning….

No glow plug light when I went to start it up, or if it did come on it 
was only for a few seconds and I missed it. Ambient was maybe 50F, 
possibly a little warmer. About 5-10 minutes later as I’m driving down 
the street, the glow plug light comes on and stays on for a short 
time, then goes off.


Weird.

At lunch I went out and the light lit for maybe 5-10 seconds and went 
out. Again, it came on while I was driving a few minutes later for a 
short time and then went out.


Same thing on the drive home today.

As I look at the service manual, it says that one of the fault 
indicators is no preglow lamp at startup, then the light can light up 
for approximately one minute while driving. Fault: One or more glow 
plugs defective.


So I’m wondering if I’ve got a bad glow plug. I just swapped them all 
out less than 10k ago, probably even less than that.


But - there’s more…

The AC started acting up. Hot air, literally HOT air coming out of the 
vents. I checked the monovalve, it’s good. Checked the AC system, 
everything is good there as far as pressures and charge, but the low 
pressure line is not cold. High pressure is.


I put a clamp on the coolant line to the cabin to isolate the heater 
and drove the car. I can get duct temps down to about 70F and that’s 
it. Pressures are correct for the ambient temperature and humidity.


It’s almost like I was getting heat during cooling, but I’m not 
getting decent output from the system to begin with.


Both of these issues started at the same time. I can’t see how they’re 
related.


???

-D



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[MBZ] Glow Plug Question / Weirdness

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

The 350SDL started acting weird this morning….

No glow plug light when I went to start it up, or if it did come on it was only 
for a few seconds and I missed it.  Ambient was maybe 50F, possibly a little 
warmer.  About 5-10 minutes later as I’m driving down the street, the glow plug 
light comes on and stays on for a short time, then goes off.

Weird.

At lunch I went out and the light lit for maybe 5-10 seconds and went out.  
Again, it came on while I was driving a few minutes later for a short time and 
then went out.

Same thing on the drive home today.

As I look at the service manual, it says that one of the fault indicators is no 
preglow lamp at startup, then the light can light up for approximately one 
minute while driving.  Fault: One or more glow plugs defective.

So I’m wondering if I’ve got a bad glow plug.  I just swapped them all out less 
than 10k ago, probably even less than that.

But - there’s more…

The AC started acting up.  Hot air, literally HOT air coming out of the vents.  
I checked the monovalve, it’s good.  Checked the AC system, everything is good 
there as far as pressures and charge, but the low pressure line is not cold.  
High pressure is.

I put a clamp on the coolant line to the cabin to isolate the heater and drove 
the car.  I can get duct temps down to about 70F and that’s it.  Pressures are 
correct for the ambient temperature and humidity.

It’s almost like I was getting heat during cooling, but I’m not getting decent 
output from the system to begin with.

Both of these issues started at the same time.  I can’t see how they’re related.

???

-D


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