Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

The so-called 500-year flood is now the 5-year blood.

On Mon, Oct 3, 2022, 3:04 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Depends. There are an innumerable number of palm species, but to your
> point, yes, their construction is what allows them to escape damage in high
> winds. They don’t have a root structure per se, like a deciduous tree, more
> like a root “ball”. They can and do get blown over, but it’s pretty rare.
>
> -D
>
> > On Oct 3, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Why do palm trees do so well? I guess their branches and leaves bend
> rather than catch the wind for one thing. Do they have deep roots?
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 3, 2022, at 13:04, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
> >> Oaks are surface feeders. They don’t have deep tap roots. So when the
> >> soil (which around here is all sand from ancient dunes and beaches)
> >> gets saturated (which kind of a relative term because it percolates
> >> fairly well until the water table gets up) then there’s not much to
> >> hold them down
> >>
> >> --FT
> >> Sent from iFōn
> >>
> >>> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:21 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Still not necessarily a good idea.
> >>>
> >>> There are numerous first growth oak trees in my area, and many of them
> lost (big) limbs and a few even toppled. The problem isn’t the trees so
> much as how much rain that accompanies or preceded the storm. If the ground
> gets saturated enough, the wind can come along and topple the oldest,
> biggest trees around. Because the soil is so porous, trees around here send
> roots out horizontally, not down. As a result when the ground gets soft
> those roots don’t provide a lot of stability, and the tree topples.
> >>>
> >>> -D
> >>>
>  On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>  Here's my general rule:  If there's not some really old trees already
> growing there,
>  you probably don't want to put anything expensive on that land.
> 
>  -- Jim
> 
> 
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> >>>
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> >>
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Depends. There are an innumerable number of palm species, but to your point, 
yes, their construction is what allows them to escape damage in high winds. 
They don’t have a root structure per se, like a deciduous tree, more like a 
root “ball”. They can and do get blown over, but it’s pretty rare.

-D

> On Oct 3, 2022, at 2:10 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Why do palm trees do so well? I guess their branches and leaves bend rather 
> than catch the wind for one thing. Do they have deep roots?
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2022, at 13:04, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
>> Oaks are surface feeders. They don’t have deep tap roots. So when the 
>> soil (which around here is all sand from ancient dunes and beaches) 
>> gets saturated (which kind of a relative term because it percolates 
>> fairly well until the water table gets up) then there’s not much to 
>> hold them down
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iFōn
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:21 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Still not necessarily a good idea.
>>> 
>>> There are numerous first growth oak trees in my area, and many of them lost 
>>> (big) limbs and a few even toppled. The problem isn’t the trees so much as 
>>> how much rain that accompanies or preceded the storm. If the ground gets 
>>> saturated enough, the wind can come along and topple the oldest, biggest 
>>> trees around. Because the soil is so porous, trees around here send roots 
>>> out horizontally, not down. As a result when the ground gets soft those 
>>> roots don’t provide a lot of stability, and the tree topples.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
 On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 Here's my general rule:  If there's not some really old trees already 
 growing there,
 you probably don't want to put anything expensive on that land.
 
 -- Jim
 
 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

They don’t have a lot of big limbs to catch the wind. I don’t know what their 
roots are like but I see the big trees for transplanting just have a root ball 

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Oct 3, 2022, at 2:11 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Why do palm trees do so well? I guess their branches and leaves bend rather 
> than catch the wind for one thing. Do they have deep roots?
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Oct 3, 2022, at 13:04, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
>> Oaks are surface feeders. They don’t have deep tap roots. So when the 
>> soil (which around here is all sand from ancient dunes and beaches) 
>> gets saturated (which kind of a relative term because it percolates 
>> fairly well until the water table gets up) then there’s not much to 
>> hold them down
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iFōn
>> 
 On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:21 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Still not necessarily a good idea.
>>> 
>>> There are numerous first growth oak trees in my area, and many of them lost 
>>> (big) limbs and a few even toppled. The problem isn’t the trees so much as 
>>> how much rain that accompanies or preceded the storm. If the ground gets 
>>> saturated enough, the wind can come along and topple the oldest, biggest 
>>> trees around. Because the soil is so porous, trees around here send roots 
>>> out horizontally, not down. As a result when the ground gets soft those 
>>> roots don’t provide a lot of stability, and the tree topples.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
 On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 Here's my general rule:  If there's not some really old trees already 
 growing there,
 you probably don't want to put anything expensive on that land.
 
 -- Jim
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Oh that's easy, see palm trees aren't actually trees at all, they're aliens 
here keeping an eye on us.
They're direct relatives of those big flappy guys you see at car dealerships. 
That's why they do so well heavy wind, they just flap, no big deal.

-Curt




On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 02:11:12 PM EDT, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





Why do palm trees do so well? I guess their branches and leaves bend rather 
than catch the wind for one thing. Do they have deep roots?


On Mon, Oct 3, 2022, at 13:04, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
> Oaks are surface feeders. They don’t have deep tap roots. So when the 
> soil (which around here is all sand from ancient dunes and beaches) 
> gets saturated (which kind of a relative term because it percolates 
> fairly well until the water table gets up) then there’s not much to 
> hold them down
>
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
>
>> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:21 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Still not necessarily a good idea.
>> 
>> There are numerous first growth oak trees in my area, and many of them lost 
>> (big) limbs and a few even toppled. The problem isn’t the trees so much as 
>> how much rain that accompanies or preceded the storm. If the ground gets 
>> saturated enough, the wind can come along and topple the oldest, biggest 
>> trees around. Because the soil is so porous, trees around here send roots 
>> out horizontally, not down. As a result when the ground gets soft those 
>> roots don’t provide a lot of stability, and the tree topples.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Here's my general rule:  If there's not some really old trees already 
>>> growing there,
>>> you probably don't want to put anything expensive on that land.
>>> 
>>> -- Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

>>> 
>> 
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Google says white oaks grow deep tap roots but no mention of red oak or live 
oak.

I was thinking pines had deep roots...

-Curt


On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 02:04:56 PM EDT, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





Oaks are surface feeders. They don’t have deep tap roots. So when the soil 
(which around here is all sand from ancient dunes and beaches) gets saturated 
(which kind of a relative term because it percolates fairly well until the 
water table gets up) then there’s not much to hold them down

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:21 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Still not necessarily a good idea.
> 
> There are numerous first growth oak trees in my area, and many of them lost 
> (big) limbs and a few even toppled. The problem isn’t the trees so much as 
> how much rain that accompanies or preceded the storm. If the ground gets 
> saturated enough, the wind can come along and topple the oldest, biggest 
> trees around. Because the soil is so porous, trees around here send roots out 
> horizontally, not down. As a result when the ground gets soft those roots 
> don’t provide a lot of stability, and the tree topples.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Here's my general rule:  If there's not some really old trees already 
>> growing there,
>> you probably don't want to put anything expensive on that land.
>> 
>> -- Jim
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Why do palm trees do so well? I guess their branches and leaves bend rather 
than catch the wind for one thing. Do they have deep roots?


On Mon, Oct 3, 2022, at 13:04, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
> Oaks are surface feeders. They don’t have deep tap roots. So when the 
> soil (which around here is all sand from ancient dunes and beaches) 
> gets saturated (which kind of a relative term because it percolates 
> fairly well until the water table gets up) then there’s not much to 
> hold them down
>
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
>
>> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:21 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Still not necessarily a good idea.
>> 
>> There are numerous first growth oak trees in my area, and many of them lost 
>> (big) limbs and a few even toppled. The problem isn’t the trees so much as 
>> how much rain that accompanies or preceded the storm. If the ground gets 
>> saturated enough, the wind can come along and topple the oldest, biggest 
>> trees around. Because the soil is so porous, trees around here send roots 
>> out horizontally, not down. As a result when the ground gets soft those 
>> roots don’t provide a lot of stability, and the tree topples.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Here's my general rule:  If there's not some really old trees already 
>>> growing there,
>>> you probably don't want to put anything expensive on that land.
>>> 
>>> -- Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Oaks are surface feeders. They don’t have deep tap roots. So when the soil 
(which around here is all sand from ancient dunes and beaches) gets saturated 
(which kind of a relative term because it percolates fairly well until the 
water table gets up) then there’s not much to hold them down

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:21 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Still not necessarily a good idea.
> 
> There are numerous first growth oak trees in my area, and many of them lost 
> (big) limbs and a few even toppled. The problem isn’t the trees so much as 
> how much rain that accompanies or preceded the storm. If the ground gets 
> saturated enough, the wind can come along and topple the oldest, biggest 
> trees around. Because the soil is so porous, trees around here send roots out 
> horizontally, not down. As a result when the ground gets soft those roots 
> don’t provide a lot of stability, and the tree topples.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Here's my general rule:  If there's not some really old trees already 
>> growing there,
>> you probably don't want to put anything expensive on that land.
>> 
>> -- Jim
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Yup. With sea level rise if I had any land in Florida I'd be selling. Even 
stuff that hasn't been under water in the last 100 years isn't so far from 
being under water in the future...

-Curt




On Monday, October 3, 2022 at 01:00:04 PM EDT, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





> Still not necessarily a good idea.

I'm referring to storm surges.  If trees haven't survived there
for 100 years, then neither will (probably) a building.


-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

When I was but a little lad living on the coast of Mine (my folks like about 5 
miles inland) we used to see video of the big mansions getting washed away in 
every storm. This happened again and again. Apparently the federal government 
finally decided it wasn't a good idea to let people keep building right on the 
water and having their house get washed away eevery couple years.

It's about time we realize that, while an ocean view is nice, it's not a good 
place to build a house.

-Curt




On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 08:02:53 PM EDT, Robert Massmann via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





That looks a lot like Charlestown SC after Hurricane Hugo. My Mother live in Mt 
Pleasant just across the river and she lived in condo that were on the causeway 
between Mt Pleasant and Sullivans Island ( a barrier island ). I went down to 
help recover personal stuff after the storm. There were boats in her parking 
lot and the pivoting bridge was off it mount hanging into the canal. High Water 
mark was 7-8 feet at the storage locker at ground level. It took a year and a 
half before she could move back into here place. She moved about a year later 
further away from the coast.

Bob Massmann
2012 ML350 BT
2004 BMW 525i
Oregonia, Ohio 

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes  On Behalf Of Andrew Strasfogel 
via Mercedes
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2022 12:03 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

The inexorable rush of water reminds me of the 2011 Japanese tsunami but on 
steroids.

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 9:14 PM mitch--- via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On 2022-09-29 15:28, mi...@mitchellhaley.com wrote:
> > Scary movie, rising water and vanishing buildings in Ft Myers 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al8yTiCVfro
>
> It wasn't just one guy in that house.
>
> https://twitter.com/MesoMax919/status/1575881405170880512
>
> Update on the people that were in the red house that floated away in 
> the timelapse video from Ft. Myers Beach…. They made it out and 
> somehow survived!
>
>      Yesterday we learned someone was in this house as it floated 
> away, we have now confirmed via family that the people somehow were 
> able to make it out alive even after floating away and hanging onto 
> trees, going into floating into other houses ect. https://t.co/zcJmLTmQYt
>      Max Olson  (@MesoMax919) September 30, 2022
>
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Gotcha. Sorry for any confusion.

-D

> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:59 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
>> Still not necessarily a good idea.
> 
> I'm referring to storm surges.  If trees haven't survived there
> for 100 years, then neither will (probably) a building.
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> Still not necessarily a good idea.

I'm referring to storm surges.  If trees haven't survived there
for 100 years, then neither will (probably) a building.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Still not necessarily a good idea.

There are numerous first growth oak trees in my area, and many of them lost 
(big) limbs and a few even toppled. The problem isn’t the trees so much as how 
much rain that accompanies or preceded the storm. If the ground gets saturated 
enough, the wind can come along and topple the oldest, biggest trees around. 
Because the soil is so porous, trees around here send roots out horizontally, 
not down. As a result when the ground gets soft those roots don’t provide a lot 
of stability, and the tree topples.

-D

> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:10 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Here's my general rule:  If there's not some really old trees already growing 
> there,
> you probably don't want to put anything expensive on that land.
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Here's my general rule:  If there's not some really old trees already growing 
there,
you probably don't want to put anything expensive on that land.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

There is a single causeway that goes from the mainland to Sanibel. Between 
Sanibel and Captiva is/was a small bridge over Blind Pass at Turner Beach. 
Don’t know if it’s intact or not.

-D

> On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:03 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is there a causeway that was wiped away?
> 
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 11:11 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Pretty much the same, but there’s not as many people or structures there.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2022, at 11:03 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What happened to Captiva?
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 9:27 AM mitch--- via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Let's take a little drive to Sanibel...
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSzojvMTofc
 
 Fort Myers Beach: 1940s beach bungalow construction is not cat 4 proof.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZe9izkmjw
 
 Stilts, lots of strong stilts, that's the ticket.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioKblu2f5Xg
 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Is there a causeway that was wiped away?

On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 11:11 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Pretty much the same, but there’s not as many people or structures there.
>
> -D
>
> > On Oct 3, 2022, at 11:03 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > What happened to Captiva?
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 9:27 AM mitch--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Let's take a little drive to Sanibel...
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSzojvMTofc
> >>
> >> Fort Myers Beach: 1940s beach bungalow construction is not cat 4 proof.
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZe9izkmjw
> >>
> >> Stilts, lots of strong stilts, that's the ticket.
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioKblu2f5Xg
> >>
> >> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Pretty much the same, but there’s not as many people or structures there.

-D

> On Oct 3, 2022, at 11:03 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> What happened to Captiva?
> 
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 9:27 AM mitch--- via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
>> Let's take a little drive to Sanibel...
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSzojvMTofc
>> 
>> Fort Myers Beach: 1940s beach bungalow construction is not cat 4 proof.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZe9izkmjw
>> 
>> Stilts, lots of strong stilts, that's the ticket.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioKblu2f5Xg
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

What happened to Captiva?

On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 9:27 AM mitch--- via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Let's take a little drive to Sanibel...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSzojvMTofc
>
> Fort Myers Beach: 1940s beach bungalow construction is not cat 4 proof.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZe9izkmjw
>
> Stilts, lots of strong stilts, that's the ticket.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioKblu2f5Xg
>
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

Let's take a little drive to Sanibel...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSzojvMTofc

Fort Myers Beach: 1940s beach bungalow construction is not cat 4 proof.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZe9izkmjw

Stilts, lots of strong stilts, that's the ticket.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioKblu2f5Xg

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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Robert Massmann via Mercedes]

That looks a lot like Charlestown SC after Hurricane Hugo. My Mother live in Mt 
Pleasant just across the river and she lived in condo that were on the causeway 
between Mt Pleasant and Sullivans Island ( a barrier island ). I went down to 
help recover personal stuff after the storm. There were boats in her parking 
lot and the pivoting bridge was off it mount hanging into the canal. High Water 
mark was 7-8 feet at the storage locker at ground level. It took a year and a 
half before she could move back into here place. She moved about a year later 
further away from the coast.

Bob Massmann
2012 ML350 BT
2004 BMW 525i
Oregonia, Ohio 

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes  On Behalf Of Andrew Strasfogel 
via Mercedes
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2022 12:03 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

The inexorable rush of water reminds me of the 2011 Japanese tsunami but on 
steroids.

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 9:14 PM mitch--- via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On 2022-09-29 15:28, mi...@mitchellhaley.com wrote:
> > Scary movie, rising water and vanishing buildings in Ft Myers 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al8yTiCVfro
>
> It wasn't just one guy in that house.
>
> https://twitter.com/MesoMax919/status/1575881405170880512
>
> Update on the people that were in the red house that floated away in 
> the timelapse video from Ft. Myers Beach…. They made it out and 
> somehow survived!
>
>  Yesterday we learned someone was in this house as it floated 
> away, we have now confirmed via family that the people somehow were 
> able to make it out alive even after floating away and hanging onto 
> trees, going into floating into other houses ect. https://t.co/zcJmLTmQYt
>  Max Olson  (@MesoMax919) September 30, 2022
>
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

The inexorable rush of water reminds me of the 2011 Japanese tsunami but on
steroids.

On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 9:14 PM mitch--- via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On 2022-09-29 15:28, mi...@mitchellhaley.com wrote:
> > Scary movie, rising water and vanishing buildings in Ft Myers
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al8yTiCVfro
>
> It wasn't just one guy in that house.
>
> https://twitter.com/MesoMax919/status/1575881405170880512
>
> Update on the people that were in the red house that floated away in the
> timelapse video from Ft. Myers Beach…. They made it out and somehow
> survived!
>
>  Yesterday we learned someone was in this house as it floated away,
> we have now confirmed via family that the people somehow were able to
> make it out alive even after floating away and hanging onto trees, going
> into floating into other houses ect. https://t.co/zcJmLTmQYt
>  Max Olson  (@MesoMax919) September 30, 2022
>
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2022-09-29 15:28, mi...@mitchellhaley.com wrote:

Scary movie, rising water and vanishing buildings in Ft Myers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al8yTiCVfro


It wasn't just one guy in that house.

https://twitter.com/MesoMax919/status/1575881405170880512

Update on the people that were in the red house that floated away in the 
timelapse video from Ft. Myers Beach…. They made it out and somehow 
survived!


Yesterday we learned someone was in this house as it floated away, 
we have now confirmed via family that the people somehow were able to 
make it out alive even after floating away and hanging onto trees, going 
into floating into other houses ect. https://t.co/zcJmLTmQYt

Max Olson  (@MesoMax919) September 30, 2022

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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

A good friend runs the SC environmental law group here and she and her team sue 
guys and agencies all the time about stuff like this. Their success rate is 
probably >95% just because of the good ol boy do whatever the hell you want 
activities that go one here. This guy would get nowhere here. 

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Sep 29, 2022, at 7:07 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> He petitioned the state of FL to put in rip rap, build a groin or two, I 
> don’t recall exactly what it was. He even sued the state after they turned 
> him down multiple times. The state of FL has very strict laws on shoreline 
> restoration or alteration, and it’s a rare case when they allow anyone to do 
> stuff like this. It’s because they learned their lesson decades ago when they 
> let developers put in things like breakwaters, only to find out down the road 
> that man-made structures made beach erosion worse

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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

Wow...Superbirds...

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/09/29/21/62942623-11261707-image-a-78_1664481815464.jpg

I don't know how many times I've seen this McLaren in the last 24 hours.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/09/29/15/62925785-11261707-A_McLaren_P1_worth_around_1_2million_was_flooded_out_of_a_garage-m-72_1664461194985.jpg


And a Humvee with 7 outboard propulsion units.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433230/022-09-29_144948-2543984.png

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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Understand that Herb was VERY well connected in Wisconsin, so when he wanted 
something he typically got it, no matter what. Whistling Straits golf course 
was a perfect example of that, which is a whole ‘nother story I won’t go into 
here.

He petitioned the state of FL to put in rip rap, build a groin or two, I don’t 
recall exactly what it was. He even sued the state after they turned him down 
multiple times. The state of FL has very strict laws on shoreline restoration 
or alteration, and it’s a rare case when they allow anyone to do stuff like 
this. It’s because they learned their lesson decades ago when they let 
developers put in things like breakwaters, only to find out down the road that 
man-made structures made beach erosion worse.

I haven’t looked at the place in years, so I was surprised when I saw it today 
on Google Earth and there were some sort of structures at the water’s edge in 
front of the house. It’s also possible he/the family no longer owns it, too.

Despite the hassle of maintaining it, the family only used it for two weeks a 
year, around Christmas and New Year’s. We would have to go down there in mid 
December to check everything out and make sure all was well with the equipment. 
All I know is the guy that was the property manager did very well off keeping 
the place in shape, although I’m sure he had other customers.

-D

On Sep 29, 2022, at 6:22 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

Interesting. That would definitely not be allowed here. Maybe if grandfathered 
but if he tried to rebuild no way

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Sep 29, 2022, at 3:46 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
>
> Herb Kohler (recently deceased) owned a home on North Captiva, an island 
> north of Captiva across Red Fish Pass. He fought for a number of years with 
> the State of Florida to remediate the “land” around it, as it was gradually 
> being swallowed up by the Gulf. Last time I was there, a little over 20 years 
> ago, there was only visible land at low tide. The place was on stilts and a 
> good 15-20 feet above the water. There were two 20kW propane powered 
> generators that ran “toggled” - one for 24 hours, then the other for 24 
> hours, etc., etc., to keep the place powered. Four one thousand gallon 
> propane tanks were on a dock to provide fuel, and the property manager had a 
> supplier who had a barge with a large propane tank that came over monthly to 
> top off the tanks.
>
> Looks like they’ve done some remediation, but I’m wondering what, if 
> anything, is left of the place.
>
>
>
> -D
>
>> On Sep 29, 2022, at 3:24 PM, mitch--- via Mercedes 
>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Sanibel and Captiva got a lot smaller all of a sudden.
>>
>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fd2GL7vXgAYH2pG?format=jpg&name=900x900
>>
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Interesting. That would definitely not be allowed here. Maybe if grandfathered 
but if he tried to rebuild no way

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Sep 29, 2022, at 3:46 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Herb Kohler (recently deceased) owned a home on North Captiva, an island 
> north of Captiva across Red Fish Pass. He fought for a number of years with 
> the State of Florida to remediate the “land” around it, as it was gradually 
> being swallowed up by the Gulf. Last time I was there, a little over 20 years 
> ago, there was only visible land at low tide. The place was on stilts and a 
> good 15-20 feet above the water. There were two 20kW propane powered 
> generators that ran “toggled” - one for 24 hours, then the other for 24 
> hours, etc., etc., to keep the place powered. Four one thousand gallon 
> propane tanks were on a dock to provide fuel, and the property manager had a 
> supplier who had a barge with a large propane tank that came over monthly to 
> top off the tanks.
> 
> Looks like they’ve done some remediation, but I’m wondering what, if 
> anything, is left of the place.
> 
> 
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2022, at 3:24 PM, mitch--- via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Sanibel and Captiva got a lot smaller all of a sudden.
>> 
>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fd2GL7vXgAYH2pG?format=jpg&name=900x900
>> 
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>> 
> 


Herb Kohler's house.kmz
Description: application/vnd.google-earth.kmz
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Herb Kohler (recently deceased) owned a home on North Captiva, an island north 
of Captiva across Red Fish Pass. He fought for a number of years with the State 
of Florida to remediate the “land” around it, as it was gradually being 
swallowed up by the Gulf. Last time I was there, a little over 20 years ago, 
there was only visible land at low tide. The place was on stilts and a good 
15-20 feet above the water. There were two 20kW propane powered generators that 
ran “toggled” - one for 24 hours, then the other for 24 hours, etc., etc., to 
keep the place powered. Four one thousand gallon propane tanks were on a dock 
to provide fuel, and the property manager had a supplier who had a barge with a 
large propane tank that came over monthly to top off the tanks.

Looks like they’ve done some remediation, but I’m wondering what, if anything, 
is left of the place.



-D

> On Sep 29, 2022, at 3:24 PM, mitch--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
>
> Sanibel and Captiva got a lot smaller all of a sudden.
>
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fd2GL7vXgAYH2pG?format=jpg&name=900x900
>
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Herb Kohler's house.kmz
Description: Herb Kohler's house.kmz
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

Scary movie, rising water and vanishing buildings in Ft Myers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al8yTiCVfro

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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

Sanibel and Captiva got a lot smaller all of a sudden.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fd2GL7vXgAYH2pG?format=jpg&name=900x900

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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

Wow.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2022, at 8:08 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> You might say that.
> 
> Here’s what’s left of the causeway out to Sanibel:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad we weren’t there.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2022, at 7:49 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Groovalicious.
>> 
>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 6:38 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ian is gone. Minimal effects at Chez Penoff East. Lots of detritus from
>>> the trees on the ground, but no downed limbs. Haven’t checked the roof yet,
>>> but from below there don’t seem to be any missing shingles. Never lost
>>> power, had a couple of bumps, but the generator has yet to get a workout.
>>> 
>>> According to my weather station the peak gust was 41.4 mph and through
>>> midnight we received 14.49” of rain with another 1.25” so far this morning.
>>> The temperature has dropped to a balmy 64F this morning, it actually feels
>>> a bit brisk outside with the last of the rain falling.
>>> 
>>> Dodged another bullet. 40-50 miles difference in the path and it would
>>> have been a totally different story. Now the cleanup begins.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
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>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Floyd, be proactive and offer your fleet at half price before the storm
hits.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 9:59 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I think the media is going berserk with that sort of thing. Last I heard
> there’s been one confirmed death from the storm so far, although I’m sure
> there will be more.
>
> It was that - the big section of the causeway missing.
>
> -D
>
> > On Sep 29, 2022, at 9:26 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2022-09-29 09:00, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> >> I just got a report from someone in the area who said the parts of the
> >> causeway that remain have the concrete road surface peeled off, like a
> >> buzzsaw went at it horizontally. Not good.
> >
> > Any verification for reports of bodies floating on Sanibel?
> > I couldn't open your picture earlier, was it the mess at the toll plaza
> or was it this?
> > https://twitter.com/kylagaler/status/1575434245849464833
> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

I think the media is going berserk with that sort of thing. Last I heard 
there’s been one confirmed death from the storm so far, although I’m sure there 
will be more.

It was that - the big section of the causeway missing.

-D

> On Sep 29, 2022, at 9:26 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On 2022-09-29 09:00, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> I just got a report from someone in the area who said the parts of the
>> causeway that remain have the concrete road surface peeled off, like a
>> buzzsaw went at it horizontally. Not good.
> 
> Any verification for reports of bodies floating on Sanibel?
> I couldn't open your picture earlier, was it the mess at the toll plaza or 
> was it this?
> https://twitter.com/kylagaler/status/1575434245849464833
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2022-09-29 09:00, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:

I just got a report from someone in the area who said the parts of the
causeway that remain have the concrete road surface peeled off, like a
buzzsaw went at it horizontally. Not good.


Any verification for reports of bodies floating on Sanibel?
I couldn't open your picture earlier, was it the mess at the toll plaza 
or was it this?

https://twitter.com/kylagaler/status/1575434245849464833

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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

I just got a report from someone in the area who said the parts of the causeway 
that remain have the concrete road surface peeled off, like a buzzsaw went at 
it horizontally. Not good.

-D

> On Sep 29, 2022, at 8:24 AM, mitch--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On 2022-09-29 08:07, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
>> You might say that.
>> Here’s what’s left of the causeway out to Sanibel:
> 
> Local resident sez:
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> The area leading to the toll plaza is very low and within about 100’ of the 
> water. Not surprising to see it torn up, but is still a compelling image that 
> hints at what we’ll probably find on Sanibel.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2022-09-29 08:07, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:

You might say that.

Here’s what’s left of the causeway out to Sanibel:


Local resident sez:


Wow.

The area leading to the toll plaza is very low and within about 100’ of 
the water. Not surprising to see it torn up, but is still a compelling 
image that hints at what we’ll probably find on Sanibel.


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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Good luck! Hope it’s as uneventful for you as it was for us.

-D

> On Sep 29, 2022, at 8:07 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Good news!  Rain to begin here in awhile then the real fun later tonight and 
> tomorrow. Latest track forecast shows 2pm Friday storm circle right on top of 
> the vast estate. Yay me.  
> 
> —FT
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2022, at 7:38 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Ian is gone. Minimal effects at Chez Penoff East. Lots of detritus from the 
>> trees on the ground, but no downed limbs. Haven’t checked the roof yet, but 
>> from below there don’t seem to be any missing shingles. Never lost power, 
>> had a couple of bumps, but the generator has yet to get a workout.
>> 
>> According to my weather station the peak gust was 41.4 mph and through 
>> midnight we received 14.49” of rain with another 1.25” so far this morning. 
>> The temperature has dropped to a balmy 64F this morning, it actually feels a 
>> bit brisk outside with the last of the rain falling.
>> 
>> Dodged another bullet. 40-50 miles difference in the path and it would have 
>> been a totally different story. Now the cleanup begins.
>> 
>> -D
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Good news!  Rain to begin here in awhile then the real fun later tonight and 
tomorrow. Latest track forecast shows 2pm Friday storm circle right on top of 
the vast estate. Yay me.  

—FT

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 29, 2022, at 7:38 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ian is gone. Minimal effects at Chez Penoff East. Lots of detritus from the 
> trees on the ground, but no downed limbs. Haven’t checked the roof yet, but 
> from below there don’t seem to be any missing shingles. Never lost power, had 
> a couple of bumps, but the generator has yet to get a workout.
> 
> According to my weather station the peak gust was 41.4 mph and through 
> midnight we received 14.49” of rain with another 1.25” so far this morning. 
> The temperature has dropped to a balmy 64F this morning, it actually feels a 
> bit brisk outside with the last of the rain falling.
> 
> Dodged another bullet. 40-50 miles difference in the path and it would have 
> been a totally different story. Now the cleanup begins.
> 
> -D
> ___
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

You might say that.

Here’s what’s left of the causeway out to Sanibel:



Glad we weren’t there.

-D

> On Sep 29, 2022, at 7:49 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
>
> Groovalicious.
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 6:38 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> Ian is gone. Minimal effects at Chez Penoff East. Lots of detritus from
>> the trees on the ground, but no downed limbs. Haven’t checked the roof yet,
>> but from below there don’t seem to be any missing shingles. Never lost
>> power, had a couple of bumps, but the generator has yet to get a workout.
>>
>> According to my weather station the peak gust was 41.4 mph and through
>> midnight we received 14.49” of rain with another 1.25” so far this morning.
>> The temperature has dropped to a balmy 64F this morning, it actually feels
>> a bit brisk outside with the last of the rain falling.
>>
>> Dodged another bullet. 40-50 miles difference in the path and it would
>> have been a totally different story. Now the cleanup begins.
>>
>> -D
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
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>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

Groovalicious.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 6:38 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Ian is gone. Minimal effects at Chez Penoff East. Lots of detritus from
> the trees on the ground, but no downed limbs. Haven’t checked the roof yet,
> but from below there don’t seem to be any missing shingles. Never lost
> power, had a couple of bumps, but the generator has yet to get a workout.
>
> According to my weather station the peak gust was 41.4 mph and through
> midnight we received 14.49” of rain with another 1.25” so far this morning.
> The temperature has dropped to a balmy 64F this morning, it actually feels
> a bit brisk outside with the last of the rain falling.
>
> Dodged another bullet. 40-50 miles difference in the path and it would
> have been a totally different story. Now the cleanup begins.
>
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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[MBZ] Ian Aftermath

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Ian is gone. Minimal effects at Chez Penoff East. Lots of detritus from the 
trees on the ground, but no downed limbs. Haven’t checked the roof yet, but 
from below there don’t seem to be any missing shingles. Never lost power, had a 
couple of bumps, but the generator has yet to get a workout.

According to my weather station the peak gust was 41.4 mph and through midnight 
we received 14.49” of rain with another 1.25” so far this morning. The 
temperature has dropped to a balmy 64F this morning, it actually feels a bit 
brisk outside with the last of the rain falling.

Dodged another bullet. 40-50 miles difference in the path and it would have 
been a totally different story. Now the cleanup begins.

-D
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