Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Luther, I like it! So you found a seller trying to get rid of whole car, and made an offer? How much did you pay? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 334k miles '95 E300 280k miles '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC From: Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 5:32:36 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix What about finding someone with a 603rodbender and offering to purchase their #22 head? This is what I did on eBay for my SDL. Came with injectors and chambers. Luther KB5QHUOak Park, IL '87 300SDL (312,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi) On 3/4/2011 10:17 AM, Rolf wrote: Yes, remember that new #22 head is really going to cost upwards of $4k when you throw in valves etc. Reman #17 or better is the way to go. Personally, just start with the headgasket and have the head inspected and work from there. While the head is off you can hand lap the valves as well if everything checks out OK. I compared the 606 to the 603 hg last night, the 606 def seems to be of different material. The Finns say its copper but without one in hand -Rolf. On 03/04/2011 10:24 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Yes, that is a consideration. I've put a lot of time and $ into this car and I certainly would be happy to keep driving it for another five or ten years. I'd really like to find a used head with #17 or later casting and keep the ~$1500 difference in my pocket. -Max From: Alex Chamberlainapchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:26:55 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Max Dillonmeadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I just received the lab results from the latest engine oil sample: Sodium jumped from 5 ppm to 115 ppm, which the lab tech interpreted as Coolant additives are present. The car does require infrequent topping off of the coolant, so it looks as if pulling the head to replace the head gasket is now the plan... Ouch. If budget permits, and you intend to keep the car indefinitely, I strongly recommend that, rather than a used one, you buy a nice new #21 head, or whatever is the latest iteration with all the bugs fixed, and have the peace of mind that you'll never have to do it again. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
It is a lifter, starved of oil due to failed head gasket. Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 334k miles '95 E300 280k miles '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sat, March 5, 2011 9:53:58 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix I have had cars with that sound, so the fins are saying that a bad head gasket can cause that? I always just thought it was a lifter. On 3/4/2011 6:42 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Alex, have you watched the videos from the link that Rolf posted? The first has noise exactly like my car. https://picasaweb.google.com/olefejer/W124300TurboDieselUdskiftToppKning# -Max From: Alex Chamberlainapchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 2:15:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Max Dillonmeadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. Max, is there any way you can post an audio file to the list? My 603 car has occasionally made clicky noises that seem to be coming from the vicinity of the valve cover, and I always wonder if they qualify as valve tick (of course they never happen when my indy or anyone else is around to hear). It would be nice to hear someone else's engine for corroboration. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3481 - Release Date: 03/04/11 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 99 E430, 99 E320, 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3483 - Release Date: 03/05/11 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
If your 140 rodbender dies again I'll buy the head for $500 if its a good head. Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 334k miles '95 E300 280k miles '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sat, March 5, 2011 9:53:58 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix I have had cars with that sound, so the fins are saying that a bad head gasket can cause that? I always just thought it was a lifter. On 3/4/2011 6:42 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Alex, have you watched the videos from the link that Rolf posted? The first has noise exactly like my car. https://picasaweb.google.com/olefejer/W124300TurboDieselUdskiftToppKning# -Max From: Alex Chamberlainapchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 2:15:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Max Dillonmeadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. Max, is there any way you can post an audio file to the list? My 603 car has occasionally made clicky noises that seem to be coming from the vicinity of the valve cover, and I always wonder if they qualify as valve tick (of course they never happen when my indy or anyone else is around to hear). It would be nice to hear someone else's engine for corroboration. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3481 - Release Date: 03/04/11 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 99 E430, 99 E320, 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3483 - Release Date: 03/05/11 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Ebay seller and he had already pulled the engine and condemned it. nbsp;He was selling the body only. nbsp;I messaged him and asked if he wanted to sell the head also. nbsp;$550 later, it was shipped to me :) Luther -- Sent from my Palm Pre On Mar 7, 2011 2:56 AM, Max Dillon lt;meadedil...@bellsouth.netgt; wrote: Luther, I like it! So you found a seller trying to get rid of whole car, and made an offer? How much did you pay? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 334k miles '95 E300 280k miles '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC From: Benz Hogs lt;benz-n-h...@gulseth.netgt; To: Mercedes Discussion List lt;mercedes@okiebenz.comgt; Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 5:32:36 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix What about finding someone with a 603rodbender and offering to purchase their #22 head? This is what I did on eBay for my SDL. Came with injectors and chambers. Luther KB5QHUOak Park, IL '87 300SDL (312,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi) On 3/4/2011 10:17 AM, Rolf wrote: gt; Yes, remember that new #22 head is really going to cost upwards of $4k when you gt;throw in valves etc. gt; gt; Reman #17 or better is the way to go. Personally, just start with the gt;headgasket and have the head inspected and work from there. While the head is gt;off you can hand lap the valves as well if everything checks out OK. gt; gt; I compared the 606 to the 603 hg last night, the 606 def seems to be of gt;different material. The Finns say its copper but without one in hand gt; gt; -Rolf. gt; gt; On 03/04/2011 10:24 AM, Max Dillon wrote: gt;gt; Yes, that is a consideration. I've put a lot of time and $ into this car and gt;I gt;gt; certainly would be happy to keep driving it for another five or ten years. gt;gt; gt;gt; I'd really like to find a used head with #17 or later casting and keep the gt;gt; ~$1500 difference in my pocket. gt;gt; gt;gt; -Max gt;gt; gt;gt; gt;gt; gt;gt; gt;gt; From: Alex Chamberlainlt;apchamberl...@gmail.comgt; gt;gt; To: Mercedes Discussion Listlt;mercedes@okiebenz.comgt; gt;gt; Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:26:55 AM gt;gt; Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix gt;gt; gt;gt; On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Max Dillonlt;meadedil...@bellsouth.netgt; wrote: gt;gt;gt; I just received the lab results from the latest engine oil sample: Sodium gt;gt;gt; jumped gt;gt;gt; from 5 ppm to 115 ppm, which the lab tech interpreted as Coolant additives gt;gt; are gt;gt;gt; present. The car does require infrequent topping off of the coolant, so it gt;gt;gt; looks as if pulling the head to replace the head gasket is now the plan... gt;gt;gt; gt;gt; Ouch. If budget permits, and you intend to keep the car indefinitely, gt;gt; I strongly recommend that, rather than a used one, you buy a nice new gt;gt; #21 head, or whatever is the latest iteration with all the bugs fixed, gt;gt; and have the peace of mind that you'll never have to do it again. gt;gt; gt;gt; Alex gt;gt; gt;gt; ___ gt;gt; http://www.okiebenz.com gt;gt; For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com gt;gt; To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ gt;gt; gt;gt; To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: gt;gt; http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com gt;gt; ___ gt;gt; http://www.okiebenz.com gt;gt; For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com gt;gt; To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ gt;gt; gt;gt; To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: gt;gt; http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com gt; gt; gt; ___ gt; http://www.okiebenz.com gt; For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com gt; To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ gt; gt; To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: gt; http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
ohhh I see. On 3/7/2011 3:07 AM, Max Dillon wrote: It is a lifter, starved of oil due to failed head gasket. Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 334k miles '95 E300 280k miles '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC From: Kaleb C. Striplinka...@striplin.net To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sat, March 5, 2011 9:53:58 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix I have had cars with that sound, so the fins are saying that a bad head gasket can cause that? I always just thought it was a lifter. On 3/4/2011 6:42 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Alex, have you watched the videos from the link that Rolf posted? The first has noise exactly like my car. https://picasaweb.google.com/olefejer/W124300TurboDieselUdskiftToppKning# -Max From: Alex Chamberlainapchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 2:15:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Max Dillonmeadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. Max, is there any way you can post an audio file to the list? My 603 car has occasionally made clicky noises that seem to be coming from the vicinity of the valve cover, and I always wonder if they qualify as valve tick (of course they never happen when my indy or anyone else is around to hear). It would be nice to hear someone else's engine for corroboration. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3481 - Release Date: 03/04/11 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 99 E430, 99 E320, 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3488 - Release Date: 03/07/11 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
you can send it On 3/3/2011 1:38 PM, Max Dillon wrote: Alex, I have the technology to record an MP3, I guess it would be up to Kaleb to approve it after I send it? Rolf's reply has before and after video, have you listened to that? When my tick was quiet, no one but I could hear it. I need to get a mechanic's stethoscope from Harbor Freight. -Max From: Alex Chamberlainapchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 2:15:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Max Dillonmeadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. Max, is there any way you can post an audio file to the list? My 603 car has occasionally made clicky noises that seem to be coming from the vicinity of the valve cover, and I always wonder if they qualify as valve tick (of course they never happen when my indy or anyone else is around to hear). It would be nice to hear someone else's engine for corroboration. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3481 - Release Date: 03/04/11 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 99 E430, 99 E320, 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3483 - Release Date: 03/05/11 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
I have had cars with that sound, so the fins are saying that a bad head gasket can cause that? I always just thought it was a lifter. On 3/4/2011 6:42 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Alex, have you watched the videos from the link that Rolf posted? The first has noise exactly like my car. https://picasaweb.google.com/olefejer/W124300TurboDieselUdskiftToppKning# -Max From: Alex Chamberlainapchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 2:15:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Max Dillonmeadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. Max, is there any way you can post an audio file to the list? My 603 car has occasionally made clicky noises that seem to be coming from the vicinity of the valve cover, and I always wonder if they qualify as valve tick (of course they never happen when my indy or anyone else is around to hear). It would be nice to hear someone else's engine for corroboration. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3481 - Release Date: 03/04/11 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 99 E430, 99 E320, 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3483 - Release Date: 03/05/11 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Good point! -Max From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 3:19:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix Just use a 1 heater hose (or some similar size) long enough to go to the spot and your ear. --R On 3/3/2011 2:38 PM, Max Dillon wrote: When my tick was quiet, no one but I could hear it. I need to get a mechanic's stethoscope from Harbor Freight. -Max ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Peter - great idea - yes the o-rings on the oil filter tube are recent, however you remind me that the tube in this car has some gouges/damage in the top half, so maybe I need to add replace oil filter tube to the list of things to try before pulling the head. The noise has come and gone with the same tube in place, so I don't think this all of the problem but it might be contributing? I wonder if the tube from my '95 could be swapped in? EPC knows all... I bought the car on Ebay and it had no service records, so I've no idea if the head gasket has ever been touched. I've never had a compression check done, and I'm not inclined to pay for one just for this problem. Yes, I'm aware of the hydro-lock risk. -Max From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 6:34:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix First, do you have good o-rings on the center bolt? If not, chances are you will have much less noise after you replace them. However, a new head gasket (and new head bolts) isn't a bad idea if you don't know when the last one was done -- they DO leak, and a low compression injector knock sounds a lot like a bad tappet... A compression test is the cheap and cheerful way to decided -- if you have a few low but not bad cylinders, especially if they are adjacent, suspect a bad gasket. Note that a failure at the cross passage in front of #1 will cause excessive oil consumption and the scary possibliity of oil hydrolocking the cylinder, with attendant thrashed rods and crank. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
EPC says same oil return tube for '95 E300, so I'll try swapping that to see if it has any affect. -Max From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 6:34:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix First, do you have good o-rings on the center bolt? If not, chances are you will have much less noise after you replace them. However, a new head gasket (and new head bolts) isn't a bad idea if you don't know when the last one was done -- they DO leak, and a low compression injector knock sounds a lot like a bad tappet... A compression test is the cheap and cheerful way to decided -- if you have a few low but not bad cylinders, especially if they are adjacent, suspect a bad gasket. Note that a failure at the cross passage in front of #1 will cause excessive oil consumption and the scary possibliity of oil hydrolocking the cylinder, with attendant thrashed rods and crank. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Alex, have you watched the videos from the link that Rolf posted? The first has noise exactly like my car. https://picasaweb.google.com/olefejer/W124300TurboDieselUdskiftToppKning# -Max From: Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 2:15:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. Max, is there any way you can post an audio file to the list? My 603 car has occasionally made clicky noises that seem to be coming from the vicinity of the valve cover, and I always wonder if they qualify as valve tick (of course they never happen when my indy or anyone else is around to hear). It would be nice to hear someone else's engine for corroboration. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
I just received the lab results from the latest engine oil sample: Sodium jumped from 5 ppm to 115 ppm, which the lab tech interpreted as Coolant additives are present. The car does require infrequent topping off of the coolant, so it looks as if pulling the head to replace the head gasket is now the plan... -Max From: Rolf r...@winmutt.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 2:02:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix I lay good money on the head gasket. I and others have (had) the same problem. Check the video here : http://superturbodiesel.com/std/w124-300d-turbo-om603-ticking-noise-under-valve-t-2299.html The general recommendation from the FInns is to go with the 606 headgasket as a replacement, it will need some modification for the 603 (drill two holes). -Rolf On 03/03/2011 01:42 PM, Max Dillon wrote: Dieselvolk, My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. I'd appreciate thoughts and input on what the problem is and how to fix it. History: I've only used Mobil 1 oil since purchasing the car about 50k miles ago, when it had about 284k miles It now has 334k miles. About 3 years ago (~20k miles ago) the tick developed after a 450 mile travel day, during which the car ran very hot but did not overheat, due to a long stop-n-go traffic jam on the freeway. Car had increased oil consumption during the trip (used about 1 qt in 500 miles, normally only uses 1 qt per 2000 miles), and the noise began the next morning upon first start. After fussing over the noise for a few days but not really doing anything other than add oil and determine that the noise originates from either the #2 or #3 cylinder valves in the head, the noise largely went away on its own. After that episode, the noise would occasionally come back if the car was exposed to cold weather (i.e. around freezing or lower), but once it was driven the noise would reduce to the point that I really had to listen hard, generally with the hood up, to see if it was still ticking. I tried testing the lifters (hydraulic valve clearance compensating elements) in accordance with the book, and they passed, but that was at a time when the lifter tick noise was reduced. The current engine oil is now 10k miles old. It is Mobil 1 5w-40, and the 5k oil analysis showed only 0.4% soot. I sent in the 10k sample last week, should have results shortly. All previous oil samples were negative for glycol (coolant) and wear metals are pretty normal in my opinion. This past January the noise came back with a vengeance after I drove the car to Baltimore, and then car sat in a freezing parking lot for a couple of weeks. I drove the car home, and since then I've only driven it a few times, but the noise is almost constant. Now it will sometimes be reduced when the engine is cold, but once the car warms up it comes right back. So here's my plan. 1) Warm up the engine and then pull the valve cover and test the lifters again using the book method. If any fail the test, replace them. Inspect the camshaft lobes for wear. 2) Change the oil. 3) Replace the lifters for #2 and #3 on principle (they're noisy). 4) Pull the head and replace the head gasket, assuming a failure at the oil passage between #1 cylinder and timing chain case, allowing oil to flow into the timing chain area and back the sump, which reduces the oil pressure to the head and causes the noise. I like this option least, because I fear finding cracks in the (number 14) head and I'm worried that if I put a cracked head back on, the cracks will worsen and I'll start burning coolant or mixing oil and coolant. Right now the upper radiator hose has normal pressure after resting overnight, and the engine oil analysis looks good, so I don't think I have problems with cracks in the head right now. Thanks for reading through all this! Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 334k miles '95 E300 280k miles '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 4:42 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Alex, have you watched the videos from the link that Rolf posted? The first has noise exactly like my car. https://picasaweb.google.com/olefejer/W124300TurboDieselUdskiftToppKning# Thanks Max. In that video, are you referring to the regular ticking at roughly 10 Hz you can hear on top of the regular diesel klatta? Mine does that now and then when started cold, but it goes away in a couple of minutes at most. (I'm using Delo 400 15W40 year-round.) If that's the valves, am I right in assuming I'm seeing (hearing) regular behavior as the hydraulic lifters take a little time to pressurize? Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I just received the lab results from the latest engine oil sample: Sodium jumped from 5 ppm to 115 ppm, which the lab tech interpreted as Coolant additives are present. The car does require infrequent topping off of the coolant, so it looks as if pulling the head to replace the head gasket is now the plan... Ouch. If budget permits, and you intend to keep the car indefinitely, I strongly recommend that, rather than a used one, you buy a nice new #21 head, or whatever is the latest iteration with all the bugs fixed, and have the peace of mind that you'll never have to do it again. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Max Dillon wrote: I just received the lab results from the latest engine oil sample: Sodium jumped from 5 ppm to 115 ppm, which the lab tech interpreted as Coolant additives are present. The car does require infrequent topping off of the coolant, so it looks as if pulling the head to replace the head gasket is now the plan... Depth gauge the pistons while you're in there. If the hydrolock theory explains the rodbender 3.5s, then there's no reason to think the 3.0s should be immune, just less likely to have leaky gaskets because the oil/coolant passages are farther from the cylinder bores. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Alex, Yes, compare the before and after videos (first and last). You may want to try using M1 oil for the next oil change to see if that will help; Marshall used to say that the noisy lifters would often be quieted by using M1, but it could take thousands of miles to do the job, and switching back to dino oil would immediately bring the noise back. -Max From: Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:22:07 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 4:42 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Alex, have you watched the videos from the link that Rolf posted? The first has noise exactly like my car. https://picasaweb.google.com/olefejer/W124300TurboDieselUdskiftToppKning# Thanks Max. In that video, are you referring to the regular ticking at roughly 10 Hz you can hear on top of the regular diesel klatta? Mine does that now and then when started cold, but it goes away in a couple of minutes at most. (I'm using Delo 400 15W40 year-round.) If that's the valves, am I right in assuming I'm seeing (hearing) regular behavior as the hydraulic lifters take a little time to pressurize? Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Yes, that is a consideration. I've put a lot of time and $ into this car and I certainly would be happy to keep driving it for another five or ten years. I'd really like to find a used head with #17 or later casting and keep the ~$1500 difference in my pocket. -Max From: Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:26:55 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I just received the lab results from the latest engine oil sample: Sodium jumped from 5 ppm to 115 ppm, which the lab tech interpreted as Coolant additives are present. The car does require infrequent topping off of the coolant, so it looks as if pulling the head to replace the head gasket is now the plan... Ouch. If budget permits, and you intend to keep the car indefinitely, I strongly recommend that, rather than a used one, you buy a nice new #21 head, or whatever is the latest iteration with all the bugs fixed, and have the peace of mind that you'll never have to do it again. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Good idea - anything else I should do while I'm there? -Max From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:35:29 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix Max Dillon wrote: I just received the lab results from the latest engine oil sample: Sodium jumped from 5 ppm to 115 ppm, which the lab tech interpreted as Coolant additives are present. The car does require infrequent topping off of the coolant, so it looks as if pulling the head to replace the head gasket is now the plan... Depth gauge the pistons while you're in there. If the hydrolock theory explains the rodbender 3.5s, then there's no reason to think the 3.0s should be immune, just less likely to have leaky gaskets because the oil/coolant passages are farther from the cylinder bores. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
If you do that, I call dibs on your old head. If the existing head is not cracked, why replace it? There are many 14 heads that run hundreds of thousands of miles. Yes, that is a consideration. I've put a lot of time and $ into this car and I certainly would be happy to keep driving it for another five or ten years. I'd really like to find a used head with #17 or later casting and keep the ~$1500 difference in my pocket. -Max From: Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:26:55 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I just received the lab results from the latest engine oil sample: Sodium jumped from 5 ppm to 115 ppm, which the lab tech interpreted as Coolant additives are present. The car does require infrequent topping off of the coolant, so it looks as if pulling the head to replace the head gasket is now the plan... Ouch. If budget permits, and you intend to keep the car indefinitely, I strongly recommend that, rather than a used one, you buy a nice new #21 head, or whatever is the latest iteration with all the bugs fixed, and have the peace of mind that you'll never have to do it again. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Yes, remember that new #22 head is really going to cost upwards of $4k when you throw in valves etc. Reman #17 or better is the way to go. Personally, just start with the headgasket and have the head inspected and work from there. While the head is off you can hand lap the valves as well if everything checks out OK. I compared the 606 to the 603 hg last night, the 606 def seems to be of different material. The Finns say its copper but without one in hand -Rolf. On 03/04/2011 10:24 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Yes, that is a consideration. I've put a lot of time and $ into this car and I certainly would be happy to keep driving it for another five or ten years. I'd really like to find a used head with #17 or later casting and keep the ~$1500 difference in my pocket. -Max From: Alex Chamberlainapchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:26:55 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Max Dillonmeadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I just received the lab results from the latest engine oil sample: Sodium jumped from 5 ppm to 115 ppm, which the lab tech interpreted as Coolant additives are present. The car does require infrequent topping off of the coolant, so it looks as if pulling the head to replace the head gasket is now the plan... Ouch. If budget permits, and you intend to keep the car indefinitely, I strongly recommend that, rather than a used one, you buy a nice new #21 head, or whatever is the latest iteration with all the bugs fixed, and have the peace of mind that you'll never have to do it again. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Perhaps a 606 head gasket and careful application of Johnny Berryman's favorite gasket lube? http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Hylomar174;-Universal-Blue-Racing-Formula-Gasket-Dressing--Flange-Sealant-Permatex_7740008-P_N2132_T|GRP2132 Mitch. Rolf wrote: I compared the 606 to the 603 hg last night, the 606 def seems to be of different material. The Finns say its copper but without one in hand -Rolf. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
On Fri, 04 Mar 2011 11:17:58 -0500 Rolf r...@winmutt.com wrote: I compared the 606 to the 603 hg last night, the 606 def seems to be of different material. The Finns say its copper but without one in hand hg? def? copper? Please explain Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
I think hg = head gasket, def = definitely. I believe I can't order any hg until I pull the head and determine whether or not it gets milled, as there are different thicknesses of hg, no? -Max From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 12:37:48 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Fri, 04 Mar 2011 11:17:58 -0500 Rolf r...@winmutt.com wrote: I compared the 606 to the 603 hg last night, the 606 def seems to be of different material. The Finns say its copper but without one in hand hg? def? copper? Please explain Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
What about finding someone with a 603rodbender and offering to purchase their #22 head? This is what I did on eBay for my SDL. Came with injectors and chambers. Luther KB5QHUOak Park, IL '87 300SDL (312,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi) On 3/4/2011 10:17 AM, Rolf wrote: Yes, remember that new #22 head is really going to cost upwards of $4k when you throw in valves etc. Reman #17 or better is the way to go. Personally, just start with the headgasket and have the head inspected and work from there. While the head is off you can hand lap the valves as well if everything checks out OK. I compared the 606 to the 603 hg last night, the 606 def seems to be of different material. The Finns say its copper but without one in hand -Rolf. On 03/04/2011 10:24 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Yes, that is a consideration. I've put a lot of time and $ into this car and I certainly would be happy to keep driving it for another five or ten years. I'd really like to find a used head with #17 or later casting and keep the ~$1500 difference in my pocket. -Max From: Alex Chamberlainapchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:26:55 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Max Dillonmeadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I just received the lab results from the latest engine oil sample: Sodium jumped from 5 ppm to 115 ppm, which the lab tech interpreted as Coolant additives are present. The car does require infrequent topping off of the coolant, so it looks as if pulling the head to replace the head gasket is now the plan... Ouch. If budget permits, and you intend to keep the car indefinitely, I strongly recommend that, rather than a used one, you buy a nice new #21 head, or whatever is the latest iteration with all the bugs fixed, and have the peace of mind that you'll never have to do it again. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Benz Hogs wrote: What about finding someone with a 603rodbender and offering to purchase their #22 head? This is what I did on eBay for my SDL. Came with injectors and chambers. It would be expensive if the proper prechambers were not included. Did you need to change injection lines too? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Expensive w/o the prechambers, you are correct, but mine included chambers and injectors. The angle difference was not enough that I needed to change the injector lines, they remain the original '87 lines from the 14 head. Luther KB5QHUOak Park, IL '87 300SDL (312,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi) On 3/4/2011 6:26 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Benz Hogs wrote: What about finding someone with a 603rodbender and offering to purchase their #22 head? This is what I did on eBay for my SDL. Came with injectors and chambers. It would be expensive if the proper prechambers were not included. Did you need to change injection lines too? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
That was a replacement head already. -Rolf On 3/4/2011 5:32 PM, Benz Hogs wrote: What about finding someone with a 603rodbender and offering to purchase their #22 head? This is what I did on eBay for my SDL. Came with injectors and chambers. Luther KB5QHUOak Park, IL '87 300SDL (312,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi) On 3/4/2011 10:17 AM, Rolf wrote: Yes, remember that new #22 head is really going to cost upwards of $4k when you throw in valves etc. Reman #17 or better is the way to go. Personally, just start with the headgasket and have the head inspected and work from there. While the head is off you can hand lap the valves as well if everything checks out OK. I compared the 606 to the 603 hg last night, the 606 def seems to be of different material. The Finns say its copper but without one in hand -Rolf. On 03/04/2011 10:24 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Yes, that is a consideration. I've put a lot of time and $ into this car and I certainly would be happy to keep driving it for another five or ten years. I'd really like to find a used head with #17 or later casting and keep the ~$1500 difference in my pocket. -Max From: Alex Chamberlainapchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 9:26:55 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Max Dillonmeadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I just received the lab results from the latest engine oil sample: Sodium jumped from 5 ppm to 115 ppm, which the lab tech interpreted as Coolant additives are present. The car does require infrequent topping off of the coolant, so it looks as if pulling the head to replace the head gasket is now the plan... Ouch. If budget permits, and you intend to keep the car indefinitely, I strongly recommend that, rather than a used one, you buy a nice new #21 head, or whatever is the latest iteration with all the bugs fixed, and have the peace of mind that you'll never have to do it again. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Dieselvolk, My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. I'd appreciate thoughts and input on what the problem is and how to fix it. History: I've only used Mobil 1 oil since purchasing the car about 50k miles ago, when it had about 284k miles It now has 334k miles. About 3 years ago (~20k miles ago) the tick developed after a 450 mile travel day, during which the car ran very hot but did not overheat, due to a long stop-n-go traffic jam on the freeway. Car had increased oil consumption during the trip (used about 1 qt in 500 miles, normally only uses 1 qt per 2000 miles), and the noise began the next morning upon first start. After fussing over the noise for a few days but not really doing anything other than add oil and determine that the noise originates from either the #2 or #3 cylinder valves in the head, the noise largely went away on its own. After that episode, the noise would occasionally come back if the car was exposed to cold weather (i.e. around freezing or lower), but once it was driven the noise would reduce to the point that I really had to listen hard, generally with the hood up, to see if it was still ticking. I tried testing the lifters (hydraulic valve clearance compensating elements) in accordance with the book, and they passed, but that was at a time when the lifter tick noise was reduced. The current engine oil is now 10k miles old. It is Mobil 1 5w-40, and the 5k oil analysis showed only 0.4% soot. I sent in the 10k sample last week, should have results shortly. All previous oil samples were negative for glycol (coolant) and wear metals are pretty normal in my opinion. This past January the noise came back with a vengeance after I drove the car to Baltimore, and then car sat in a freezing parking lot for a couple of weeks. I drove the car home, and since then I've only driven it a few times, but the noise is almost constant. Now it will sometimes be reduced when the engine is cold, but once the car warms up it comes right back. So here's my plan. 1) Warm up the engine and then pull the valve cover and test the lifters again using the book method. If any fail the test, replace them. Inspect the camshaft lobes for wear. 2) Change the oil. 3) Replace the lifters for #2 and #3 on principle (they're noisy). 4) Pull the head and replace the head gasket, assuming a failure at the oil passage between #1 cylinder and timing chain case, allowing oil to flow into the timing chain area and back the sump, which reduces the oil pressure to the head and causes the noise. I like this option least, because I fear finding cracks in the (number 14) head and I'm worried that if I put a cracked head back on, the cracks will worsen and I'll start burning coolant or mixing oil and coolant. Right now the upper radiator hose has normal pressure after resting overnight, and the engine oil analysis looks good, so I don't think I have problems with cracks in the head right now. Thanks for reading through all this! Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 334k miles '95 E300 280k miles '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
I lay good money on the head gasket. I and others have (had) the same problem. Check the video here : http://superturbodiesel.com/std/w124-300d-turbo-om603-ticking-noise-under-valve-t-2299.html The general recommendation from the FInns is to go with the 606 headgasket as a replacement, it will need some modification for the 603 (drill two holes). -Rolf On 03/03/2011 01:42 PM, Max Dillon wrote: Dieselvolk, My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. I'd appreciate thoughts and input on what the problem is and how to fix it. History: I've only used Mobil 1 oil since purchasing the car about 50k miles ago, when it had about 284k miles It now has 334k miles. About 3 years ago (~20k miles ago) the tick developed after a 450 mile travel day, during which the car ran very hot but did not overheat, due to a long stop-n-go traffic jam on the freeway. Car had increased oil consumption during the trip (used about 1 qt in 500 miles, normally only uses 1 qt per 2000 miles), and the noise began the next morning upon first start. After fussing over the noise for a few days but not really doing anything other than add oil and determine that the noise originates from either the #2 or #3 cylinder valves in the head, the noise largely went away on its own. After that episode, the noise would occasionally come back if the car was exposed to cold weather (i.e. around freezing or lower), but once it was driven the noise would reduce to the point that I really had to listen hard, generally with the hood up, to see if it was still ticking. I tried testing the lifters (hydraulic valve clearance compensating elements) in accordance with the book, and they passed, but that was at a time when the lifter tick noise was reduced. The current engine oil is now 10k miles old. It is Mobil 1 5w-40, and the 5k oil analysis showed only 0.4% soot. I sent in the 10k sample last week, should have results shortly. All previous oil samples were negative for glycol (coolant) and wear metals are pretty normal in my opinion. This past January the noise came back with a vengeance after I drove the car to Baltimore, and then car sat in a freezing parking lot for a couple of weeks. I drove the car home, and since then I've only driven it a few times, but the noise is almost constant. Now it will sometimes be reduced when the engine is cold, but once the car warms up it comes right back. So here's my plan. 1) Warm up the engine and then pull the valve cover and test the lifters again using the book method. If any fail the test, replace them. Inspect the camshaft lobes for wear. 2) Change the oil. 3) Replace the lifters for #2 and #3 on principle (they're noisy). 4) Pull the head and replace the head gasket, assuming a failure at the oil passage between #1 cylinder and timing chain case, allowing oil to flow into the timing chain area and back the sump, which reduces the oil pressure to the head and causes the noise. I like this option least, because I fear finding cracks in the (number 14) head and I'm worried that if I put a cracked head back on, the cracks will worsen and I'll start burning coolant or mixing oil and coolant. Right now the upper radiator hose has normal pressure after resting overnight, and the engine oil analysis looks good, so I don't think I have problems with cracks in the head right now. Thanks for reading through all this! Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 334k miles '95 E300 280k miles '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Rolf, Did you have noise narrowed down to #2 and #3 cylinder's valve train in the head? Did you replace your gasket? -Max From: Rolf r...@winmutt.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 2:02:18 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix I lay good money on the head gasket. I and others have (had) the same problem. Check the video here : http://superturbodiesel.com/std/w124-300d-turbo-om603-ticking-noise-under-valve-t-2299.html The general recommendation from the FInns is to go with the 606 headgasket as a replacement, it will need some modification for the 603 (drill two holes). -Rolf On 03/03/2011 01:42 PM, Max Dillon wrote: Dieselvolk, My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. I'd appreciate thoughts and input on what the problem is and how to fix it. History: I've only used Mobil 1 oil since purchasing the car about 50k miles ago, when it had about 284k miles It now has 334k miles. About 3 years ago (~20k miles ago) the tick developed after a 450 mile travel day, during which the car ran very hot but did not overheat, due to a long stop-n-go traffic jam on the freeway. Car had increased oil consumption during the trip (used about 1 qt in 500 miles, normally only uses 1 qt per 2000 miles), and the noise began the next morning upon first start. After fussing over the noise for a few days but not really doing anything other than add oil and determine that the noise originates from either the #2 or #3 cylinder valves in the head, the noise largely went away on its own. After that episode, the noise would occasionally come back if the car was exposed to cold weather (i.e. around freezing or lower), but once it was driven the noise would reduce to the point that I really had to listen hard, generally with the hood up, to see if it was still ticking. I tried testing the lifters (hydraulic valve clearance compensating elements) in accordance with the book, and they passed, but that was at a time when the lifter tick noise was reduced. The current engine oil is now 10k miles old. It is Mobil 1 5w-40, and the 5k oil analysis showed only 0.4% soot. I sent in the 10k sample last week, should have results shortly. All previous oil samples were negative for glycol (coolant) and wear metals are pretty normal in my opinion. This past January the noise came back with a vengeance after I drove the car to Baltimore, and then car sat in a freezing parking lot for a couple of weeks. I drove the car home, and since then I've only driven it a few times, but the noise is almost constant. Now it will sometimes be reduced when the engine is cold, but once the car warms up it comes right back. So here's my plan. 1) Warm up the engine and then pull the valve cover and test the lifters again using the book method. If any fail the test, replace them. Inspect the camshaft lobes for wear. 2) Change the oil. 3) Replace the lifters for #2 and #3 on principle (they're noisy). 4) Pull the head and replace the head gasket, assuming a failure at the oil passage between #1 cylinder and timing chain case, allowing oil to flow into the timing chain area and back the sump, which reduces the oil pressure to the head and causes the noise. I like this option least, because I fear finding cracks in the (number 14) head and I'm worried that if I put a cracked head back on, the cracks will worsen and I'll start burning coolant or mixing oil and coolant. Right now the upper radiator hose has normal pressure after resting overnight, and the engine oil analysis looks good, so I don't think I have problems with cracks in the head right now. Thanks for reading through all this! Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 334k miles '95 E300 280k miles '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. Max, is there any way you can post an audio file to the list? My 603 car has occasionally made clicky noises that seem to be coming from the vicinity of the valve cover, and I always wonder if they qualify as valve tick (of course they never happen when my indy or anyone else is around to hear). It would be nice to hear someone else's engine for corroboration. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Is the list running slow? I responded in an email On 03/03/2011 02:15 PM, Alex Chamberlain wrote: On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Max Dillonmeadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. Max, is there any way you can post an audio file to the list? My 603 car has occasionally made clicky noises that seem to be coming from the vicinity of the valve cover, and I always wonder if they qualify as valve tick (of course they never happen when my indy or anyone else is around to hear). It would be nice to hear someone else's engine for corroboration. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Alex, I have the technology to record an MP3, I guess it would be up to Kaleb to approve it after I send it? Rolf's reply has before and after video, have you listened to that? When my tick was quiet, no one but I could hear it. I need to get a mechanic's stethoscope from Harbor Freight. -Max From: Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 2:15:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: My '87 300TD has a valve tick that I want to fix. Max, is there any way you can post an audio file to the list? My 603 car has occasionally made clicky noises that seem to be coming from the vicinity of the valve cover, and I always wonder if they qualify as valve tick (of course they never happen when my indy or anyone else is around to hear). It would be nice to hear someone else's engine for corroboration. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
Just use a 1 heater hose (or some similar size) long enough to go to the spot and your ear. --R On 3/3/2011 2:38 PM, Max Dillon wrote: When my tick was quiet, no one but I could hear it. I need to get a mechanic's stethoscope from Harbor Freight. -Max ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM603 Valve Tick Diagnoses and Fix
First, do you have good o-rings on the center bolt? If not, chances are you will have much less noise after you replace them. However, a new head gasket (and new head bolts) isn't a bad idea if you don't know when the last one was done -- they DO leak, and a low compression injector knock sounds a lot like a bad tappet... A compression test is the cheap and cheerful way to decided -- if you have a few low but not bad cylinders, especially if they are adjacent, suspect a bad gasket. Note that a failure at the cross passage in front of #1 will cause excessive oil consumption and the scary possibliity of oil hydrolocking the cylinder, with attendant thrashed rods and crank. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
