Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007, Loren Faeth wrote: One way is to add some algicide/water dispersant, except for Herr Booth whos cars never sit long enough to collect condensation. We were, however originally talking about a car that has set inactive for years. I dunno how long this sat for before I bought it, but it sees 1k/wk, although it DOES sit more on weekends, usually with just above 3/4 tank fuel... I usually fill up in the morning on the way in... -j.
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
One way is to add some algicide/water dispersant, except for Herr Booth whos cars never sit long enough to collect condensation. We were, however originally talking about a car that has set inactive for years. At 07:24 PM 2/16/2007, you wrote: On Fri, 16 Feb 2007, Marshall Booth wrote: You NEVER need to use an algaecide as long as you remove ALL water from the fuel tank several times a year and buy quality fuel. Algae can't live unless there is water in the tank. They live in the water - they EAT the fuel. How do you empty the fuel tank of water? im starting to get condensation in one of them (it is visible as ice on the inside of the fuel cap when I do my mornign fill-up) -j. -- 1985 300D Gerta 1999 E300Dt Hans 1999 E300Dt Frantz ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
Loren Faeth wrote: One way is to add some algicide/water dispersant, except for Herr Booth whos cars never sit long enough to collect condensation. We were, however originally talking about a car that has set inactive for years. I would certainly suggest a water sequestering agent in fuel that's been setting for months or years. Once the water is bound, the algae dies and there's no need for a separate algaecide (or you can drain the fuel - that's the most complex, but safest solution). Old diesel fuel can cause many problems despite the fact that the engine may start and run on it. Whether you drain the old fuel or not, as soon as it's been replaced with clean fresh fuel you probably should run a POWERFUL fuel system cleaner thru the system and possibly even a lubricity improver or a tank or two of biodiesel B20 to free up all the moving parts in the injection system. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
And buy several filters -- likely you will shake all sorts of crud loose and they will plug several times until you get it all out. Watch for a plugging tank screed, too -- quite likely if there is algae in there. Once it's dead, it will plug the screen as it peels of the tank bottom. Peter
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
Peter Frederick wrote: And buy several filters -- likely you will shake all sorts of crud loose and they will plug several times until you get it all out. Watch for a plugging tank screed, too -- quite likely if there is algae in there. Once it's dead, it will plug the screen as it peels of the tank bottom. What he said, sorry I forgot to add the filter warning. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
Marshall Booth wrote: I would certainly suggest a water sequestering agent in fuel that's been setting for months or years. Once the water is bound, the algae dies and there's no need for a separate algaecide (or you can drain the fuel - that's the most complex, but safest solution). Old diesel fuel can cause many problems despite the fact that the engine may start and run on it. Whether you drain the old fuel or not, as soon as it's been replaced with clean fresh fuel you probably should run a POWERFUL fuel system cleaner thru the system and possibly even a lubricity improver or a tank or two of biodiesel B20 to free up all the moving parts in the injection system. Noted. I'll throw some Power Service in the tank before I try to start it and run some Diesel Purge once running - I guess there's really no point in making the engine run on poorer fuel than necessary, and a new filter is the first order of business once the glow plugs are working. I suppose I should dip the tank before starting, too, just to make sure there is in fact nothing living in there. Thanks Marshall, and everyone else, too. Tom
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
Loren Faeth wrote: I forgot to mention, as with any diesel where a tank of fuel sits over one or more summers, there is a very high probability of algae in the tank. Before you crank it, put the shock treatment of algicide (Stanadyne or equivalent) in the tank and mix it in the best you can. Have a spare fuel filter cartridge on hand also. You can change out the filter assy. with a spin on from a OM 616/617 if you want. You will probably need to make up some hoses or get all the hoses of the newer type fir the engine you robbed the filter housing from if you do this. The guys who work on pumps tell me that most pumps don't die from wear, they die from algae. If you ever see any black on the innards of an IP or lines containing Diesel, you need to be using algicide. You NEVER need to use an algaecide as long as you remove ALL water from the fuel tank several times a year and buy quality fuel. Algae can't live unless there is water in the tank. They live in the water - they EAT the fuel. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
Pour in a bit of ethanol and get them drunk, then they will just want to drink more and not eat your fuel. At least that's how it works for me. --R (going now for another homebrew) Marshall Booth wrote: You NEVER need to use an algaecide as long as you remove ALL water from the fuel tank several times a year and buy quality fuel. Algae can't live unless there is water in the tank. They live in the water - they EAT the fuel. Marshall
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007, Marshall Booth wrote: You NEVER need to use an algaecide as long as you remove ALL water from the fuel tank several times a year and buy quality fuel. Algae can't live unless there is water in the tank. They live in the water - they EAT the fuel. How do you empty the fuel tank of water? im starting to get condensation in one of them (it is visible as ice on the inside of the fuel cap when I do my mornign fill-up) -j. -- 1985 300D Gerta 1999 E300Dt Hans 1999 E300Dt Frantz
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
Rich Thomas wrote: Pour in a bit of ethanol and get them drunk, then they will just want to drink more and not eat your fuel. At least that's how it works for me. Ethanol (and other alcohols) sequester water - no water - bugs die and can't make more bugs! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
John W. Reames III wrote: On Fri, 16 Feb 2007, Marshall Booth wrote: You NEVER need to use an algaecide as long as you remove ALL water from the fuel tank several times a year and buy quality fuel. Algae can't live unless there is water in the tank. They live in the water - they EAT the fuel. How do you empty the fuel tank of water? im starting to get condensation in one of them (it is visible as ice on the inside of the fuel cap when I do my mornign fill-up) If you add a water sequestering agent, each pint usually sequesters at least a pt of water (or more). Most anti-gels do essentially the same thing. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
Thanks for all the tips, guys. I didn't get a chance to work on it yesterday, but should be able to get to it in the coming week. I'm hopeful that it won't have any problems with algae. The car has been in climate controlled storage all this time; last spring I revived an '83 300D that had been stored alongside the Finny and had traveled less than 100 miles since 1993. All it took to get it going and running nigh unto perfectly on that ancient fuel was a fresh battery and a turn of the key, so hope springs eternal. I'll keep you posted on my progess. Tom
[MBZ] OM621 Questions
I'm going to attempt to resurrect a '65 190Dc in the next week or so. The car is unbelievably clean and all original but hasn't been run in many years. I'm not familiar with these older diesels and have only looked at the car for about five minutes so far but have confirmed that the glow plugs aren't glowing. I'm a real doofus with this electrical stuff, so bear with me. So... how to test series plugs? Pull them and check resistance/brokenness individually? Or as an easier alternative, maybe check volatage to ground along the glow string with the knob pulled out, and look for voltage to drop to zero at the bad plug/resistor wire? I'm guessing it should drop by about 2.5v (12.6/5) at each plug and the salt shaker thing when working correctly, right? Is there a strip fuse hidden in one of these a la the 617? Also, does anyone have the valve clearance specs for an OM621? Many thanks, Tom
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
is this at the museum? tom savage wrote: I'm going to attempt to resurrect a '65 190Dc in the next week or so. The car is unbelievably clean and all original but hasn't been run in many years. I'm not familiar with these older diesels and have only looked at the car for about five minutes so far but have confirmed that the glow plugs aren't glowing. I'm a real doofus with this electrical stuff, so bear with me. So... how to test series plugs? Pull them and check resistance/brokenness individually? Or as an easier alternative, maybe check volatage to ground along the glow string with the knob pulled out, and look for voltage to drop to zero at the bad plug/resistor wire? I'm guessing it should drop by about 2.5v (12.6/5) at each plug and the salt shaker thing when working correctly, right? Is there a strip fuse hidden in one of these a la the 617? Also, does anyone have the valve clearance specs for an OM621? Many thanks, Tom ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
Best way to check the GP is with a volt meter with the knob pulled out to glow position. There is no fuse. Most likely you have an open GP somewhere, or the ground wire is corroded off (at #1). There are two resistor links, the zigzag ones that get hot when the GP are working, so be careful, Voltage will drop about 1.25V for each resistor (GP or link) -- if something is open or the swtich is bad, you get zero volts after the break. Valve clearance is likely the same as for newer engines, but I don't remember what that is off hand -- I think 0.004 for intakes and 0.012 for exhaust -- that will get you running, anyway. Peter
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
Peter Frederick wrote: Best way to check the GP is with a volt meter with the knob pulled out to glow position. There is no fuse. Most likely you have an open GP somewhere, or the ground wire is corroded off (at #1). There are two resistor links, the zigzag ones that get hot when the GP are working, so be careful, Voltage will drop about 1.25V for each resistor (GP or link) -- if something is open or the swtich is bad, you get zero volts after the break. Valve clearance is likely the same as for newer engines, but I don't remember what that is off hand -- I think 0.004 for intakes and 0.012 for exhaust -- that will get you running, anyway. What Peter said! Intake value 0.15 mm exhaust 0.30 (early) or 0.35 mm (engine cold). Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
So... how to test series plugs? Pull them and check resistance/brokenness individually? Or as an easier alternative, maybe check volatage to ground along the glow string with the knob pulled out, and look for voltage to drop to zero at the bad plug/resistor wire? You initially probe between ground and interesting points looking for where voltage stops. (With no current flow all 'hot' points will be 12V. Operating correctly, every point in the system will be at a different voltage. Once all breaks are found and rectified you can measure across the two terminals of each of the GP's and you should see approximately 1V dropped across each one. The remainder is dropped in the toaster racks, and the salt shaker. Wasted, so far as starting the engine goes. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
Yep, what they said. Other than the series plugs, it is for all practical maintenance purposes, the same as an OM616 The 190Dc is a 3 main crank. What's that? 621.912? I forget. The 200D engine is a 5 main. I think that is 621.915. Valve clearances, as Peter and Marshall said, are the same as the 616/617. Timing chain parts and cam/valve train parts are interchangeable as assemblies with the 616. Most OM 621s have been updated with the 615/616 cam/towers and followers. At 08:12 PM 2/15/2007, you wrote: I'm going to attempt to resurrect a '65 190Dc in the next week or so. The car is unbelievably clean and all original but hasn't been run in many years. I'm not familiar with these older diesels and have only looked at the car for about five minutes so far but have confirmed that the glow plugs aren't glowing. I'm a real doofus with this electrical stuff, so bear with me. So... how to test series plugs? Pull them and check resistance/brokenness individually? Or as an easier alternative, maybe check volatage to ground along the glow string with the knob pulled out, and look for voltage to drop to zero at the bad plug/resistor wire? I'm guessing it should drop by about 2.5v (12.6/5) at each plug and the salt shaker thing when working correctly, right? Is there a strip fuse hidden in one of these a la the 617? Also, does anyone have the valve clearance specs for an OM621? Many thanks, Tom ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
I forgot to mention, as with any diesel where a tank of fuel sits over one or more summers, there is a very high probability of algae in the tank. Before you crank it, put the shock treatment of algicide (Stanadyne or equivalent) in the tank and mix it in the best you can. Have a spare fuel filter cartridge on hand also. You can change out the filter assy. with a spin on from a OM 616/617 if you want. You will probably need to make up some hoses or get all the hoses of the newer type fir the engine you robbed the filter housing from if you do this. The guys who work on pumps tell me that most pumps don't die from wear, they die from algae. If you ever see any black on the innards of an IP or lines containing Diesel, you need to be using algicide. 110.110 cars are great fun. Hope you get it running. If it is a 110.110.10 then the easiest way to get it running is to pull it (in 4th gear). At 08:12 PM 2/15/2007, you wrote: I'm going to attempt to resurrect a '65 190Dc in the next week or so. The car is unbelievably clean and all original but hasn't been run in many years. I'm not familiar with these older diesels and have only looked at the car for about five minutes so far but have confirmed that the glow plugs aren't glowing. I'm a real doofus with this electrical stuff, so bear with me. So... how to test series plugs? Pull them and check resistance/brokenness individually? Or as an easier alternative, maybe check volatage to ground along the glow string with the knob pulled out, and look for voltage to drop to zero at the bad plug/resistor wire? I'm guessing it should drop by about 2.5v (12.6/5) at each plug and the salt shaker thing when working correctly, right? Is there a strip fuse hidden in one of these a la the 617? Also, does anyone have the valve clearance specs for an OM621? Many thanks, Tom ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
Re: [MBZ] OM621 Questions
Please file regular progress reports so the list can second guess you, er, I mean offer trenchant and helpful advice/observations. On 2/16/07, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I forgot to mention, as with any diesel where a tank of fuel sits over one or more summers, there is a very high probability of algae in the tank. Before you crank it, put the shock treatment of algicide (Stanadyne or equivalent) in the tank and mix it in the best you can. Have a spare fuel filter cartridge on hand also. You can change out the filter assy. with a spin on from a OM 616/617 if you want. You will probably need to make up some hoses or get all the hoses of the newer type fir the engine you robbed the filter housing from if you do this. The guys who work on pumps tell me that most pumps don't die from wear, they die from algae. If you ever see any black on the innards of an IP or lines containing Diesel, you need to be using algicide. 110.110 cars are great fun. Hope you get it running. If it is a 110.110.10 then the easiest way to get it running is to pull it (in 4th gear). At 08:12 PM 2/15/2007, you wrote: I'm going to attempt to resurrect a '65 190Dc in the next week or so. The car is unbelievably clean and all original but hasn't been run in many years. I'm not familiar with these older diesels and have only looked at the car for about five minutes so far but have confirmed that the glow plugs aren't glowing. I'm a real doofus with this electrical stuff, so bear with me. So... how to test series plugs? Pull them and check resistance/brokenness individually? Or as an easier alternative, maybe check volatage to ground along the glow string with the knob pulled out, and look for voltage to drop to zero at the bad plug/resistor wire? I'm guessing it should drop by about 2.5v (12.6/5) at each plug and the salt shaker thing when working correctly, right? Is there a strip fuse hidden in one of these a la the 617? Also, does anyone have the valve clearance specs for an OM621? Many thanks, Tom ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
