Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Considering the fact that a form of slavery continued well into the 20th century under the label share cropping, I suspect that slavery would have continued. Tom www.kegkits.com - Original Message - From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 2/29/08 4:39 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com CC: Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Not sure where I heard it but I was always told the War of Northern Aggression was about States rights. Read the constitution as it regards states rights and you will see how much the federal govt has oversteped the Constitution *BIG* time. Not sure how things woud be now if the south had won - but IMO things would have been *very* different. I hope both N S would have banded together to fight the Nazi's. Without a *United* states the germans would have taken much more time to defeat. All IMO of course. ;-) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Royce Engler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System andrew strasfogel wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. Actually, I do believe I'm a pretty reasonable guy, but I also know that the War of Northern Aggression was not fought by the South to continue slavery. The vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves and did not favor slavery. By the time the North invaded the South, slavery was in decline and would have ended anyway because it didn't make economic sense. No, the war was about the North's tendency to try to dictate to other folks how they were going to run their business, kinda like the revolutionary war was about the British telling the colonists how they were going to run their business...and kinda like liberals think they can tell the rest of us what to think and how we should handle our business. It's about freedom. Royce ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.2/1304 - Release Date: 2/29/2008 8:18 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
I don't know about others, but my state would be really scary without the federal regs keeping the crazy legislature in line. We have common senselessness here --- On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 3:31 PM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not sure where I heard it but I was always told the War of Northern Aggression was about States rights. Read the constitution as it regards states rights and you will see how much the federal govt has oversteped the Constitution *BIG* time. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Slavery was doomed for economic reasons (machines were cheaper) anyway. But it is interesting to speculate how history would have played out if the South successfully seceded. Would other states have left? Would they have reunited later? How would WWI and WWII have played out? Etc. Scott Ritchey -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 17:53 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More of a tenth amendment/states rights issue. Both sides of that war undertook a lot of revisionist history to make the other side seem more evil. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 04:49:35PM -0600, R A Bennell wrote: Ugh, would that be the freedom to own slaves?? Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Lincoln?? I must be missing something. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Jim Cathey wrote: Had the South won independence I wonder how things would have ultimately turned out. I'm completely confident that slavery would still be long gone, and I wonder if its demise would have gone smoother that way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline-191 I read the first few of the series, and they are pretty good. Turtledove is a master of alternate history... john ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
I read the first few of the series, and they are pretty good. Turtledove is a master of alternate history... Wow, that's a pretty grim synopsis! Fictional, of course, but disturbing nonetheless. USA as an Axis power... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT: Our Political System
andrew strasfogel wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. Actually, I do believe I'm a pretty reasonable guy, but I also know that the War of Northern Aggression was not fought by the South to continue slavery. The vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves and did not favor slavery. By the time the North invaded the South, slavery was in decline and would have ended anyway because it didn't make economic sense. No, the war was about the North's tendency to try to dictate to other folks how they were going to run their business, kinda like the revolutionary war was about the British telling the colonists how they were going to run their business...and kinda like liberals think they can tell the rest of us what to think and how we should handle our business. It's about freedom. Royce ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Not sure where I heard it but I was always told the War of Northern Aggression was about States rights. Read the constitution as it regards states rights and you will see how much the federal govt has oversteped the Constitution *BIG* time. Not sure how things woud be now if the south had won - but IMO things would have been *very* different. I hope both N S would have banded together to fight the Nazi's. Without a *United* states the germans would have taken much more time to defeat. All IMO of course. ;-) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Royce Engler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System andrew strasfogel wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. Actually, I do believe I'm a pretty reasonable guy, but I also know that the War of Northern Aggression was not fought by the South to continue slavery. The vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves and did not favor slavery. By the time the North invaded the South, slavery was in decline and would have ended anyway because it didn't make economic sense. No, the war was about the North's tendency to try to dictate to other folks how they were going to run their business, kinda like the revolutionary war was about the British telling the colonists how they were going to run their business...and kinda like liberals think they can tell the rest of us what to think and how we should handle our business. It's about freedom. Royce ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
It was suggested some years ago [magazine article: -IIRC - If the South Had Won the Civil War] that Cuba would be a Confederate state. BillR -Original Message- From: andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 2/29/08 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System I know better than to criticize anyone for displaying a rebel flag, although i did find it encouraging that at the Republican YouTube debate most of the candidates excoriated the guy who asked what they felt about the symbolism of that flag. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. I. The South should have won their independence. And Slavery should have been banished back to Hell from whence it came. (Or better yet, never have been instituted here in the first place. Those issues are not [and never were] indistinguishably tied together.) Where is it written in stone that the Union, once formed, cannot be unformed without bloodshed? Consent of the governed, and all that. Had the South won independence I wonder how things would have ultimately turned out. I'm completely confident that slavery would still be long gone, and I wonder if its demise would have gone smoother that way. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
The question is if the situation had of been reversed how would the South have reacted? Would they have said in the interest of freedom we'll let the north go on it's own or would they have have gone north with an army to kick some bottom? Hendrik Royce Engler wrote: andrew strasfogel wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. Actually, I do believe I'm a pretty reasonable guy, but I also know that the War of Northern Aggression was not fought by the South to continue slavery. The vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves and did not favor slavery. By the time the North invaded the South, slavery was in decline and would have ended anyway because it didn't make economic sense. No, the war was about the North's tendency to try to dictate to other folks how they were going to run their business, kinda like the revolutionary war was about the British telling the colonists how they were going to run their business...and kinda like liberals think they can tell the rest of us what to think and how we should handle our business. It's about freedom. Royce ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
WW2 might well not have happened because Germany might have won WW1 or a better peace might have been reached, with no winner or loser declared and no crippling war payments being forced on Germany, which led to a collapse of the Weimar republic and the rise of the NAZI's. It might well have been a case of because the North is supporting the British and French, the south may well have supported Germany and Austria. Hendrik LarryT wrote: Not sure where I heard it but I was always told the War of Northern Aggression was about States rights. Read the constitution as it regards states rights and you will see how much the federal govt has oversteped the Constitution *BIG* time. Not sure how things woud be now if the south had won - but IMO things would have been *very* different. I hope both N S would have banded together to fight the Nazi's. Without a *United* states the germans would have taken much more time to defeat. All IMO of course. ;-) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
i grew up in new york city, where we were taught in school that everyone in the south is foaming at the mouth KKK and without Lincoln there would be nothingness. but my family came out of the world of hitler and stalin, so i was trained to recognize crap propaganda back even from when i was a baby. if i had a wax museum, lincoln and FDR would join hitler and stalin in the rogue's gallery. On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Royce Engler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: andrew strasfogel wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. Actually, I do believe I'm a pretty reasonable guy, but I also know that the War of Northern Aggression was not fought by the South to continue slavery. The vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves and did not favor slavery. By the time the North invaded the South, slavery was in decline and would have ended anyway because it didn't make economic sense. No, the war was about the North's tendency to try to dictate to other folks how they were going to run their business, kinda like the revolutionary war was about the British telling the colonists how they were going to run their business...and kinda like liberals think they can tell the rest of us what to think and how we should handle our business. It's about freedom. Royce ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Gary, you're scaring the customers (some of them anyway). On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Gary Hurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i grew up in new york city, where we were taught in school that everyone in the south is foaming at the mouth KKK and without Lincoln there would be nothingness. but my family came out of the world of hitler and stalin, so i was trained to recognize crap propaganda back even from when i was a baby. if i had a wax museum, lincoln and FDR would join hitler and stalin in the rogue's gallery. On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Royce Engler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: andrew strasfogel wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. Actually, I do believe I'm a pretty reasonable guy, but I also know that the War of Northern Aggression was not fought by the South to continue slavery. The vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves and did not favor slavery. By the time the North invaded the South, slavery was in decline and would have ended anyway because it didn't make economic sense. No, the war was about the North's tendency to try to dictate to other folks how they were going to run their business, kinda like the revolutionary war was about the British telling the colonists how they were going to run their business...and kinda like liberals think they can tell the rest of us what to think and how we should handle our business. It's about freedom. Royce ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Lincoln?? I must be missing something. On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:04 PM, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Same here. A few years ago I would have said that GWB has done more to destroy freedom in this country than any single man since Abraham Lincoln. Now I'd rank him above Abe. Mitch. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
andrew strasfogel wrote: Lincoln?? I must be missing something. http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v07/v07p319_Dickson.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
More of a tenth amendment/states rights issue. Both sides of that war undertook a lot of revisionist history to make the other side seem more evil. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 04:49:35PM -0600, R A Bennell wrote: Ugh, would that be the freedom to own slaves?? Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Lincoln?? I must be missing something. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More of a tenth amendment/states rights issue. Both sides of that war undertook a lot of revisionist history to make the other side seem more evil. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 04:49:35PM -0600, R A Bennell wrote: Ugh, would that be the freedom to own slaves?? Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Lincoln?? I must be missing something. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Hey Andrew Got a Rebel Flag for the back window in your car? The South shall rise again! Got to be careful here not to offend anyone. Our trusty parts suppliers are in Atanta after all. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:53 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More of a tenth amendment/states rights issue. Both sides of that war undertook a lot of revisionist history to make the other side seem more evil. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 04:49:35PM -0600, R A Bennell wrote: Ugh, would that be the freedom to own slaves?? Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Lincoln?? I must be missing something. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
I believe that war was more about tariffs and state's rights. Slavery was an issue used to sell it... probably like our current War on Terror. From: andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:53:13 -0500 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More of a tenth amendment/states rights issue. Both sides of that war undertook a lot of revisionist history to make the other side seem more evil. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 04:49:35PM -0600, R A Bennell wrote: Ugh, would that be the freedom to own slaves?? Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Lincoln?? I must be missing something. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Do wives count as people who believe that? --R andrew strasfogel wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
andrew strasfogel wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? That straw man has all the sophistication of a 2nd grade social studies lesson. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Depends on whether the wife in question is chattel. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 6:06 PM, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do wives count as people who believe that? --R andrew strasfogel wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
The Civil War was about taxation without representation. Also, the North and the South had slaves during the Civil War. Slavery came into general disuse in the North, not because of human rights, but because the North had become more industrialized and slavery no longer fit. The South still used slavery because the South was mostly agricultural and they needed low cost labor to plant pick the fields. Slavery was abolished after the war but this was not necessarily a good thing for Black Americans in the late 18th century. The South still needed cheap labor to plant pick the fields and Share Cropping was invented to replaced slavery. This was essentially a new form of slavery since the share croppers were tied to the owner's land and the owners crops. But there was one key difference. Instead of being fed housed by the plantation Owner, the share cropper was responsible for his own destiny. This may seem like a positive turn of events but you need to remember that the owner fixed the price that was paid to the share cropper it was rarely enough money to survive on through the year. The result was an even poorer Black American population than before. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Robinson Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:59 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System I believe that war was more about tariffs and state's rights. Slavery was an issue used to sell it... probably like our current War on Terror. From: andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:53:13 -0500 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More of a tenth amendment/states rights issue. Both sides of that war undertook a lot of revisionist history to make the other side seem more evil. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 04:49:35PM -0600, R A Bennell wrote: Ugh, would that be the freedom to own slaves?? Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Lincoln?? I must be missing something. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 4:34 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 4:34 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Yeah, I was misinformed that the Civil War wasn't really about slavery but about commerce. My bad. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: andrew strasfogel wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? That straw man has all the sophistication of a 2nd grade social studies lesson. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Almost forgot to mention the unimportant and irrelevant Emancipation Proclamation but there I go again being naive, moralistic, and judgmental. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 6:18 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I was misinformed that the Civil War wasn't really about slavery but about commerce. My bad. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: andrew strasfogel wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? That straw man has all the sophistication of a 2nd grade social studies lesson. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
My Brother In-law hangs a rebel flag in the back window of his truck. I've talked to him several times about the flag. I've come to the conclusion that his flag has nothing to do with The South shall rise again, Blacks or slavery. He's just proud to be Southern. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of R A Bennell Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 5:05 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Hey Andrew Got a Rebel Flag for the back window in your car? The South shall rise again! Got to be careful here not to offend anyone. Our trusty parts suppliers are in Atanta after all. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:53 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More of a tenth amendment/states rights issue. Both sides of that war undertook a lot of revisionist history to make the other side seem more evil. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 04:49:35PM -0600, R A Bennell wrote: Ugh, would that be the freedom to own slaves?? Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Lincoln?? I must be missing something. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 4:34 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1302 - Release Date: 2/27/2008 4:34 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Hey why not? That works for me. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 5:29 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System My Brother In-law hangs a rebel flag in the back window of his truck. I've talked to him several times about the flag. I've come to the conclusion that his flag has nothing to do with The South shall rise again, Blacks or slavery. He's just proud to be Southern. Thanks, Tom Hargrave ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
andrew strasfogel wrote: Almost forgot to mention the unimportant and irrelevant Emancipation Proclamation but there I go again being naive, moralistic, and judgmental. When was the last time you read it? There were two main points to it. 1) I hereby declare all slaves to be free in all lands not under my control. 2) If you wish to put those lands under my control by 1-1-1863, you can keep your slaves. I realize that by the time you were eight years old you were expected to be able to parrot Washington was the father of our country...Lincoln freed the slaves, but it wasn't quite that simple. Mary Todd Lincoln was definitely an abolitionist, as were many of Abe's associates, but while he was quite a leftist for his time, slavery did not seem to be a huge driving force in Abe's life. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
RA -- Don't mess with Andrew. In a contest of rhetoric, he will annihilate anyone else on this list. He is far from the village idiot. Don't forget where he works and what he does for living. He is a master a baffle w/ BS. D. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 5:05 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Andrew Got a Rebel Flag for the back window in your car? The South shall rise again! Got to be careful here not to offend anyone. Our trusty parts suppliers are in Atanta after all. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:53 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More of a tenth amendment/states rights issue. Both sides of that war undertook a lot of revisionist history to make the other side seem more evil. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 04:49:35PM -0600, R A Bennell wrote: Ugh, would that be the freedom to own slaves?? Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System Lincoln?? I must be missing something. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ apt-get update apt-get upgrade The following packages will be replaced Prez Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
That is actually the Confederate Battle Flag (stars and bars), different from the Confederate flag. Here in Texas there are still Confederate flags flown on Confederate day or something, I mistook them for French flags (which I thought odd to be seeing in Texas) as they look sorta similar. Oh, and we have Mexican flags, Texas flags, American flags, and a couple others too that fly here and there. --R R A Bennell wrote: Hey why not? That works for me. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 5:29 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System My Brother In-law hangs a rebel flag in the back window of his truck. I've talked to him several times about the flag. I've come to the conclusion that his flag has nothing to do with The South shall rise again, Blacks or slavery. He's just proud to be Southern. Thanks, Tom Hargrave ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
No, her name isn't Chattel, but sometimes I feel like a slave to her wishes. Make that often. No, make that most of the time. --R andrew strasfogel wrote: Depends on whether the wife in question is chattel. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 6:06 PM, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do wives count as people who believe that? --R andrew strasfogel wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Suspension of Constitutional rights due to the war emergency -- that rankles me to no end. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 4:39 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lincoln?? I must be missing something. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
From Wikipedia (I know, not a authoritative by any means, but very handy): Lincoln's Suspension of Habeas Corpus Under the United States Constitution, habeas corpus can be suspended pursuant to the constitution in cases of rebellion or invasion. See United States Constitution. The Confederacy was rebelling, thus suspension of habeas corpus was both legal and constitutional. After habeas corpus was suspended by General Winfield Scott in one theater of the Civil War in 1861, Lincoln did write that Scott could arrest, and detain, without resort to ordinary processes and forms of law, such individuals as he might deem dangerous to public safety. After Chief Justice Roger B. Taney attacked the president for this policy, Lincoln responded in his First Message to Congress in December 1861 that an insurrection in nearly one-third of the States had subverted the whole of the laws . . . Are all the laws, but one, to go unexecuted, and the government itself go to pieces, lest that one be violated? Later in the war, after some had criticized the arrest and detention of Congressman Clement Vallandigham of Ohio, Lincoln wrote to Erastus Corning in June 1862 that Vallandigham was arrested because he was laboring, with some effect, to prevent the raising of troops, to encourage desertions from the army, and to leave the rebellion without an adequate military force to suppress it. . . . Must I shoot a simple-minded deserter, while I must not touch a hair of a wily agitator who induces him to desert? On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 8:31 PM, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Suspension of Constitutional rights due to the war emergency -- that rankles me to no end. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 4:39 PM, andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lincoln?? I must be missing something. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. I. The South should have won their independence. And Slavery should have been banished back to Hell from whence it came. (Or better yet, never have been instituted here in the first place. Those issues are not [and never were] indistinguishably tied together.) Where is it written in stone that the Union, once formed, cannot be unformed without bloodshed? Consent of the governed, and all that. Had the South won independence I wonder how things would have ultimately turned out. I'm completely confident that slavery would still be long gone, and I wonder if its demise would have gone smoother that way. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
I know better than to criticize anyone for displaying a rebel flag, although i did find it encouraging that at the Republican YouTube debate most of the candidates excoriated the guy who asked what they felt about the symbolism of that flag. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are there still reasonable people (emphasis) who believe the South should won the war to continue the practice of slavery? If so, I would be amazed to find any such on this list. I. The South should have won their independence. And Slavery should have been banished back to Hell from whence it came. (Or better yet, never have been instituted here in the first place. Those issues are not [and never were] indistinguishably tied together.) Where is it written in stone that the Union, once formed, cannot be unformed without bloodshed? Consent of the governed, and all that. Had the South won independence I wonder how things would have ultimately turned out. I'm completely confident that slavery would still be long gone, and I wonder if its demise would have gone smoother that way. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
The South still needed cheap labor to plant pick the fields and Share Cropping was invented to replaced slavery. This was essentially a new form of slavery since the share croppers were tied to the owner's land and the owners crops. Tom Hargrave Yup. Share cropping was finally eliminated with the invention of a mechanical cotton picker. Once the economic advantage was gone, it faded away. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 06:26:32PM -0500, Jeff Zedic wrote: We can also impeach our leaders. Ok, but didn't they impeach Clinton? Andrew Jackson? Thomas Jefferson? Nixon?? It seems pretty toothless and as Pete said, it takes a long time and a lot of resources.. Clinton and Andrew Johnson were the only two presidents to be impeached. Neither were removed from office. Nixon resigned before being impeached. And since Kaleb's one rule is no politics, we should probably end this discussion with that. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
So what was the result for Clinton though? Nothing seemed to really happen to him by being impeachedseemed pretty pointless? Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Donald Snook wrote: 2. Bill Clinton was a worse offender (do you advocate that he should be impeached and hung from the neck) Hell yes. But not for that reason. Same for Bush. Everybody who ever made a career of violating the Constitution after swearing an oath to uphold it should be tried for treason and publically executed. That includes over 400 current members of the House of Representatives, and all the media picks for our next President. I'm serious, the Constitution has been distorted and ignored for about 70 years and it needs to be enforced. I realize it started in 1798 during the Adams administration, but it's been going like gangbusters since FDR. Clinton was the kind to say well, what I just did wasn't exactly Constitutional, but it was more expedient. GWB is more the type to scream: Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, its just a goddamned piece of paper! A few years ago I would have said that GWB has done more to destroy freedom in this country than any single man since Abraham Lincoln. Now I'd rank him above Abe. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Our Political System
Same here. A few years ago I would have said that GWB has done more to destroy freedom in this country than any single man since Abraham Lincoln. Now I'd rank him above Abe. Mitch. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
