Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

"Squirmy" - great descriptor for squooshy noises coming from soft tires in
the heat...

Do you recall how much these cost in a 14" size?



On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:45 AM ned kleinhenz via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  Here is my experience with Nokian winter tires over the last 20+ years of
> using them on two different 124’s and one 211 - all rwd Mercedes
> sedans.   All three of these cars were useless on ice and snow when shod
> with summer or all-season tires.  Nokian winter tires made it possible to
> safely drive these cars anywhere any time in the winter.
>
>
>
> In the Ohio climate where I drive, Nokian’s studless winter models worked
> out best.   According to my research, and in my experience, performance on
> snow is always great with any Nokian winter tires.  Studs provide a little
> better traction on icy roads.  But studs significantly reduce traction on
> cold dry or wet roads.  The soft compound of Nokian winter tires without
> studs already provides impressive performance on ice.   Ohio’s winter roads
> are much more frequently dry or just wet or snowy than they are icy.
>
>
>
> Each set of winter tires wore for 40k to 50k miles provided I would use
> them only the worse 3 to 4 winter months each year.  Tires that provide “W”
> or “V” rated handling are not very useful in winter months anyway.   The
> soft compound winter tires would wear too quickly in warm weather.  And I
> think winter tires would be too noisy and squirmy for nice summer
> driving.  Mounting the winter tires on a separate set of rims made changing
> them very convenient and long term more economical.
>
>
>
> To get the benefits of great winter performance, stick with winter only
> rated tires.  I put a set of Nokian all-season tires on one of my cars for
> a while.  Although they were very good tires, their winter performance was
> unremarkable.
>
>
>
> Ned
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On December 19, 2019 at 9:42 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>  Even cheapo no-name snow tires are better in the snow than anything but the 
> best all-season tires.

As for the best all-season tires:
If you live north of Georgia and don't use winter tires, a set of DWS labeled 
Continental tires might be a good idea.

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[MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[ned kleinhenz via Mercedes]

 Here is my experience with Nokian winter tires over the last 20+ years of
using them on two different 124’s and one 211 - all rwd Mercedes
sedans.   All three of these cars were useless on ice and snow when shod
with summer or all-season tires.  Nokian winter tires made it possible to
safely drive these cars anywhere any time in the winter.



In the Ohio climate where I drive, Nokian’s studless winter models worked
out best.   According to my research, and in my experience, performance on
snow is always great with any Nokian winter tires.  Studs provide a little
better traction on icy roads.  But studs significantly reduce traction on
cold dry or wet roads.  The soft compound of Nokian winter tires without
studs already provides impressive performance on ice.   Ohio’s winter roads
are much more frequently dry or just wet or snowy than they are icy.



Each set of winter tires wore for 40k to 50k miles provided I would use
them only the worse 3 to 4 winter months each year.  Tires that provide “W”
or “V” rated handling are not very useful in winter months anyway.   The
soft compound winter tires would wear too quickly in warm weather.  And I
think winter tires would be too noisy and squirmy for nice summer
driving.  Mounting the winter tires on a separate set of rims made changing
them very convenient and long term more economical.



To get the benefits of great winter performance, stick with winter only
rated tires.  I put a set of Nokian all-season tires on one of my cars for
a while.  Although they were very good tires, their winter performance was
unremarkable.



Ned
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[dan--- via Mercedes]

No question. A set of Nokia Hakkapelitas can’t be beat.

-D

> On Dec 19, 2019, at 9:48 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Weight is also a big help.  200# of sandbags is a start.
> 
> For really slippery days, nothing seems to beat about 3500#
> of camper in the back of the truck.
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Weight is also a big help.  200# of sandbags is a start.

For really slippery days, nothing seems to beat about 3500#
of camper in the back of the truck.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> How much difference do winter tires really make?

A lot.  I've been ecstatic with the performance we get out of the
Nokian Hakkapeliitta tires.  They last quite awhile, too.

Around here, the studs are critical for the 2-3 luge days when
the packed snow on our hill thaws.  Getting a run at the hill
going up is usually sufficient for our 2wd cars, other days.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Even cheapo no-name snow tires are better in the snow than anything but the 
best all-season tires. A 240D is a formidable snow traveler with snow tires. 
Even a 190D is good although its got less clearance.
2 winters ago Angie and I were headed home in her '05 Golf in a snowstorm. We 
came upon an accident just around a curve on a downhill. We were headed in the 
opposite direction when a car failed to stop for the accident, hit one of the 
cars waiting to get around the accident and shot it out in front of us.We 
weren't going very fast but we were very close. As I hit the brakes I thought 
"There ain't no way." and called out "Brace yourself." I was stunned when our 
car stopped about 3' short as the car that had been hit slid past us. Snowtires 
and ABS saved the day.

-Curt

On Wednesday, December 18, 2019, 4:35:08 PM EST, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 How much difference do winter tires really make?

I have an unavoidable hill getting into my neighborhood. When it's
snowy, I can't climb it in the 300D or 300SD with "all-season"
tires. Rear tires just spin.

The other night it had snowed. The road was not yet plowed or sanded. I
was in the Volvo XC90. Heavy car, front-wheel drive, new-ish all season
tires. It also could not climb the hill. Other neighbors with AWD/SUVs
were climbing the hill no problem and they didn't appear to have snow
tires. Our AWD Honda Element with cheap Cooper tires had no problem.

Had to get the Frontier (4WD) and tow chain to pull the Volvo up the hill.

I'm OK with not using the MBs in the snow. But I need to drive
something. Priced winter tires for the Volvo and looks like they are
~$180 or so per tire. Don't want to spend that money if it's not going
to make a substantial difference.

Allan







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Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Really cold, arctic/sub-zero here is pretty rare. The other night was
maybe mid-20s, and a fairly heavy/wet snow. Though I've also had trouble
on this hill with dry powder snow. Would prefer to avoid studs, as they
are pretty noisy on dry roads (which is most of the winter, here).

Allan


Clay Monroe via Mercedes  writes:

> I have been doing research to learn more about why and what are the
> best winter tires to mount for the Arctic.  There is a fellow on the
> TUBE of Ewe who drives around the Nokian winter track testing tires in
> his VW.  Seems there are two forms of winter tire Hakipolita X3 or
> such.  He tested normal all seasons, Central European compound winters
> and the “Oh God! Save me Arctic blend” winter tire.  And the spiked
> kind.  Maybe there are tires meant to work at -40c and below, where
> the other type were just meant for -15c climate.
>
> BTW, the super arctic with spikes did the best runs and stops.
> Without studs, the tires were pretty darn good, losing maybe a few
> meters stopping distance and a few seconds lap times.
>
> clay
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On December 18, 2019 at 5:16 PM Clay Monroe via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> For my cash, putting winter tires on winter wheels does allow a person to do 
> the semi-annual swap themselves, over paying the tire show to mount and 
> dismount.

Hit up Car-part.com and see what used wheels cost. Try to downsize, the tires 
will be cheaper and they'll work better in snow. For example, if your Cruze 
takes 205-55R16, get 195-65R15s. If your W210 takes 215-55R16 and you can find 
a set of 15s from a W124 that fit, get 195-70 or 205-65 depending on the weight 
rating you need.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

I have been doing research to learn more about why and what are the best winter 
tires to mount for the Arctic.  There is a fellow on the TUBE of Ewe who drives 
around the Nokian winter track testing tires in his VW.  Seems there are two 
forms of winter tire Hakipolita X3 or such.  He tested normal all seasons, 
Central European compound winters and the “Oh God! Save me Arctic blend” winter 
tire.  And the spiked kind.  Maybe there are tires meant to work at -40c and 
below, where the other type were just meant for -15c climate.   

BTW, the super arctic with spikes did the best runs and stops.  Without studs, 
the tires were pretty darn good, losing maybe a few meters stopping distance 
and a few seconds lap times.

clay

> On Dec 18, 2019, at 1:53 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Night and day.   With general "all season" tars, my SDL would spin and slide. 
>   Not much good when I got stuck in schnee. I put on a set of used 
> Blizzaks I found at a farstone stealer in Dubuque.   What a difference.   I t 
> seemed like it would climb an iced lektrick pole with the blizzaks.   Got a 
> set for #1 daughter's E320.   THey were awe inspiring.
> 
> 
> Check simpletire.com and discounttiredirect.com What are those 18" or 
> twennys?   I can buy a set for a car for about $300 installed, last I checked.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

Winter tires do make a difference.  Depends on how much ice and snow you are 
dealing with if they are a reasonable investment.  The compound is much more 
pliable in very low temps.  There is added traction and reduced stopping 
distance in braking.  I am not sure about crawling up a hill. SWMBA swapped 
tires on her cars each fall and spring.  The jeep had studs, and the new to her 
‘yota highlander will be getting spikes as well.  For the days there is mega 
ice on the road, not just some snotty snow.

For my cash, putting winter tires on winter wheels does allow a person to do 
the semi-annual swap themselves, over paying the tire show to mount and 
dismount.

clay

> On Dec 18, 2019, at 1:34 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> How much difference do winter tires really make?
> 
> I have an unavoidable hill getting into my neighborhood. When it's
> snowy, I can't climb it in the 300D or 300SD with "all-season"
> tires. Rear tires just spin.
> 
> The other night it had snowed. The road was not yet plowed or sanded. I
> was in the Volvo XC90. Heavy car, front-wheel drive, new-ish all season
> tires. It also could not climb the hill. Other neighbors with AWD/SUVs
> were climbing the hill no problem and they didn't appear to have snow
> tires. Our AWD Honda Element with cheap Cooper tires had no problem.
> 
> Had to get the Frontier (4WD) and tow chain to pull the Volvo up the hill.
> 
> I'm OK with not using the MBs in the snow. But I need to drive
> something. Priced winter tires for the Volvo and looks like they are
> ~$180 or so per tire. Don't want to spend that money if it's not going
> to make a substantial difference.
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

+1

Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote on 12/18/19 3:48 PM:
Get wheels too so that you are not swapping tires on and off rims 
twice each year.


Randy 



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Night and day.   With general "all season" tars, my SDL would spin and 
slide.   Not much good when I got stuck in schnee. I put on a set of 
used Blizzaks I found at a farstone stealer in Dubuque.   What a 
difference.   I t seemed like it would climb an iced lektrick pole with 
the blizzaks.   Got a set for #1 daughter's E320.   THey were awe inspiring.



Check simpletire.com and discounttiredirect.com What are those 18" 
or twennys?   I can buy a set for a car for about $300 installed, last I 
checked.

Allan Streib via Mercedes 
December 18, 2019 at 3:34 PM
How much difference do winter tires really make?

I have an unavoidable hill getting into my neighborhood. When it's
snowy, I can't climb it in the 300D or 300SD with "all-season"
tires. Rear tires just spin.

The other night it had snowed. The road was not yet plowed or sanded. I
was in the Volvo XC90. Heavy car, front-wheel drive, new-ish all season
tires. It also could not climb the hill. Other neighbors with AWD/SUVs
were climbing the hill no problem and they didn't appear to have snow
tires. Our AWD Honda Element with cheap Cooper tires had no problem.

Had to get the Frontier (4WD) and tow chain to pull the Volvo up the hill.

I'm OK with not using the MBs in the snow. But I need to drive
something. Priced winter tires for the Volvo and looks like they are
~$180 or so per tire. Don't want to spend that money if it's not going
to make a substantial difference.

Allan







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Re: [MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

I would think you will find that they do make quite a difference. They 
should improve traction on acceleration and on braking. The rubber is a 
softer compound and they have extra siping. You may want to do some 
research as some are better than others. If you are allowed to run 
studded tires there, that would prove even better for the trouble that 
you are experiencing.  Think of them as extra insurance too. If they 
keep you out of an accident, they will have paid for themselves. Plus, 
if you keep the vehicle long enough they will pay off as well since you 
will be using them part of the year instead of your summer tires so the 
summer tires will last longer. Get wheels too so that you are not 
swapping tires on and off rims twice each year.


Randy

On 18/12/2019 3:34 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote:

How much difference do winter tires really make?

I have an unavoidable hill getting into my neighborhood. When it's
snowy, I can't climb it in the 300D or 300SD with "all-season"
tires. Rear tires just spin.

The other night it had snowed. The road was not yet plowed or sanded. I
was in the Volvo XC90. Heavy car, front-wheel drive, new-ish all season
tires. It also could not climb the hill. Other neighbors with AWD/SUVs
were climbing the hill no problem and they didn't appear to have snow
tires. Our AWD Honda Element with cheap Cooper tires had no problem.

Had to get the Frontier (4WD) and tow chain to pull the Volvo up the hill.

I'm OK with not using the MBs in the snow. But I need to drive
something. Priced winter tires for the Volvo and looks like they are
~$180 or so per tire. Don't want to spend that money if it's not going
to make a substantial difference.

Allan










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[MBZ] OT: Winter tires

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

How much difference do winter tires really make?

I have an unavoidable hill getting into my neighborhood. When it's
snowy, I can't climb it in the 300D or 300SD with "all-season"
tires. Rear tires just spin.

The other night it had snowed. The road was not yet plowed or sanded. I
was in the Volvo XC90. Heavy car, front-wheel drive, new-ish all season
tires. It also could not climb the hill. Other neighbors with AWD/SUVs
were climbing the hill no problem and they didn't appear to have snow
tires. Our AWD Honda Element with cheap Cooper tires had no problem.

Had to get the Frontier (4WD) and tow chain to pull the Volvo up the hill.

I'm OK with not using the MBs in the snow. But I need to drive
something. Priced winter tires for the Volvo and looks like they are
~$180 or so per tire. Don't want to spend that money if it's not going
to make a substantial difference.

Allan







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[MBZ] OT Winter tires on rims

[clay]

http://murphyauction.com/Auction/Catalog/427

Lots 927 to 986 are more wheels sets than you want to shake a stick at.  Might 
be handy for winter use or as back ups.  
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