Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
I'm not sure that I'd do that with any machine tools. -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Sep 11, 2011, at 19:51, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Well actually, with a bit of experimenting, you can use a 3 phase mixer on single phase pretty easily. You find the wild leg, then put it on a momentary on pushbutton switch, hooked to one leg of the 240V. single phase (120V). Then you hook the other two legs through the normal (on off) switch to the other two legs of the three phase. Done. TO start, you turn the switch on and press the momentary switch until the beast gets up to speed, then release the momentary switch. Its pretty cool once you get used to it. I set up a M802 (80 Qt. hobart that way for a bakery one time. Works for any 3 phase motor you manually start. Helps a lot if whoever wired the building has the legs in the right position in all the junction boxes. The wild leg should be in the middle. Unfortunately many licensed electricians don't know/don't do it this way. Speaking of 3 phase, has anyone considered (ab)using a VFD as a solid state phase converter? -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Sep 9, 2011, at 17:56, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I have both, and I have had problems with neither. The K45 I have with the twister is a hobart made mixer. The K5 is a early whirlypoo model. Neither are really big enough for serious breadmaking. I have a 20 qt hobart that does pretty well for small batches of bread. (Of course that is another order of magnitude of price.) I'd really like a 140 qt hobart if I had space and 3 phase power (and a use for that much dough). It will easily mix as little as 5 lb of bread dough. It will also make over 100 lb of dough. Actually an M802 is kind of a happy medium. I have one where the bowl has a screw/twist mount on the bottom. That tended to pull out when mixing dough, so I beefed up the threads on the bowl by brazing on some additional metal. That fixed it, but if I were to get another I'd get the one where the bowl hangs on pins on either side, that looks a lot stronger to me. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
You must be speaking of a three phase delta system. That's the only one you would have a high leg on. As someone who has worked with 3 phase systems most of his life, I would find this to be pretty darned dangerous. Dan Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2011, at 7:54 AM, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: I'm not sure that I'd do that with any machine tools. -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Sep 11, 2011, at 19:51, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Well actually, with a bit of experimenting, you can use a 3 phase mixer on single phase pretty easily. You find the wild leg, then put it on a momentary on pushbutton switch, hooked to one leg of the 240V. single phase (120V). Then you hook the other two legs through the normal (on off) switch to the other two legs of the three phase. Done. TO start, you turn the switch on and press the momentary switch until the beast gets up to speed, then release the momentary switch. Its pretty cool once you get used to it. I set up a M802 (80 Qt. hobart that way for a bakery one time. Works for any 3 phase motor you manually start. Helps a lot if whoever wired the building has the legs in the right position in all the junction boxes. The wild leg should be in the middle. Unfortunately many licensed electricians don't know/don't do it this way. Speaking of 3 phase, has anyone considered (ab)using a VFD as a solid state phase converter? -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Sep 9, 2011, at 17:56, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I have both, and I have had problems with neither. The K45 I have with the twister is a hobart made mixer. The K5 is a early whirlypoo model. Neither are really big enough for serious breadmaking. I have a 20 qt hobart that does pretty well for small batches of bread. (Of course that is another order of magnitude of price.) I'd really like a 140 qt hobart if I had space and 3 phase power (and a use for that much dough). It will easily mix as little as 5 lb of bread dough. It will also make over 100 lb of dough. Actually an M802 is kind of a happy medium. I have one where the bowl has a screw/twist mount on the bottom. That tended to pull out when mixing dough, so I beefed up the threads on the bowl by brazing on some additional metal. That fixed it, but if I were to get another I'd get the one where the bowl hangs on pins on either side, that looks a lot stronger to me. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Not a big deal of you don't get it right. It just buzzes and you shut it off, then rewire the leads to the switches. There are only 2 wrong ways it can be hooked up, and one right way. But, as I said, if the thing is wired correctly, you hook the middle lead to the momentary switch, and the two outer leads to the 240 single phase line. I'm not sure that I'd do that with any machine tools. -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Sep 11, 2011, at 19:51, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Well actually, with a bit of experimenting, you can use a 3 phase mixer on single phase pretty easily. You find the wild leg, then put it on a momentary on pushbutton switch, hooked to one leg of the 240V. single phase (120V). Then you hook the other two legs through the normal (on off) switch to the other two legs of the three phase. Done. TO start, you turn the switch on and press the momentary switch until the beast gets up to speed, then release the momentary switch. Its pretty cool once you get used to it. I set up a M802 (80 Qt. hobart that way for a bakery one time. Works for any 3 phase motor you manually start. Helps a lot if whoever wired the building has the legs in the right position in all the junction boxes. The wild leg should be in the middle. Unfortunately many licensed electricians don't know/don't do it this way. Speaking of 3 phase, has anyone considered (ab)using a VFD as a solid state phase converter? -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Sep 9, 2011, at 17:56, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I have both, and I have had problems with neither. The K45 I have with the twister is a hobart made mixer. The K5 is a early whirlypoo model. Neither are really big enough for serious breadmaking. I have a 20 qt hobart that does pretty well for small batches of bread. (Of course that is another order of magnitude of price.) I'd really like a 140 qt hobart if I had space and 3 phase power (and a use for that much dough). It will easily mix as little as 5 lb of bread dough. It will also make over 100 lb of dough. Actually an M802 is kind of a happy medium. I have one where the bowl has a screw/twist mount on the bottom. That tended to pull out when mixing dough, so I beefed up the threads on the bowl by brazing on some additional metal. That fixed it, but if I were to get another I'd get the one where the bowl hangs on pins on either side, that looks a lot stronger to me. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Dieselhead wrote: Not a big deal of you don't get it right. It just buzzes and you shut it off, then rewire the leads to the switches. There are only 2 wrong ways it can be hooked up, and one right way. But, as I said, if the thing is wired correctly, you hook the middle lead to the momentary switch, and the two outer leads to the 240 single phase line. By middle lead, you mean the neutral line that's 120v away from both the other two? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
By middle lead, you mean the neutral line that's 120v away from both the other two? A 3-phase motor doesn't have a neutral line. They're _all_ hot! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
No, that is single phase. The middle leg in three phase is supposed to be the wild leg. By middle lead, you mean the neutral line that's 120v away from both the other two? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
The only wild or high leg in a three phase system exists in a 240 volt delta arrangement. This is determined by the location if the neutral relative to two of the legs. All other three phase systems are balanced. Dan Sent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2011, at 11:14 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: No, that is single phase. The middle leg in three phase is supposed to be the wild leg. By middle lead, you mean the neutral line that's 120v away from both the other two? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 12:21:48 -0400 Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: The only wild or high leg in a three phase system exists in a 240 volt delta arrangement. This is determined by the location if the neutral relative to two of the legs. All other three phase systems are balanced. Yup. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Speaking of 3 phase, has anyone considered (ab)using a VFD as a solid state phase converter? -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Sep 9, 2011, at 17:56, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I have both, and I have had problems with neither. The K45 I have with the twister is a hobart made mixer. The K5 is a early whirlypoo model. Neither are really big enough for serious breadmaking. I have a 20 qt hobart that does pretty well for small batches of bread. (Of course that is another order of magnitude of price.) I'd really like a 140 qt hobart if I had space and 3 phase power (and a use for that much dough). It will easily mix as little as 5 lb of bread dough. It will also make over 100 lb of dough. Actually an M802 is kind of a happy medium. I have one where the bowl has a screw/twist mount on the bottom. That tended to pull out when mixing dough, so I beefed up the threads on the bowl by brazing on some additional metal. That fixed it, but if I were to get another I'd get the one where the bowl hangs on pins on either side, that looks a lot stronger to me. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Well actually, with a bit of experimenting, you can use a 3 phase mixer on single phase pretty easily. You find the wild leg, then put it on a momentary on pushbutton switch, hooked to one leg of the 240V. single phase (120V). Then you hook the other two legs through the normal (on off) switch to the other two legs of the three phase. Done. TO start, you turn the switch on and press the momentary switch until the beast gets up to speed, then release the momentary switch. Its pretty cool once you get used to it. I set up a M802 (80 Qt. hobart that way for a bakery one time. Works for any 3 phase motor you manually start. Helps a lot if whoever wired the building has the legs in the right position in all the junction boxes. The wild leg should be in the middle. Unfortunately many licensed electricians don't know/don't do it this way. Speaking of 3 phase, has anyone considered (ab)using a VFD as a solid state phase converter? -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Sep 9, 2011, at 17:56, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I have both, and I have had problems with neither. The K45 I have with the twister is a hobart made mixer. The K5 is a early whirlypoo model. Neither are really big enough for serious breadmaking. I have a 20 qt hobart that does pretty well for small batches of bread. (Of course that is another order of magnitude of price.) I'd really like a 140 qt hobart if I had space and 3 phase power (and a use for that much dough). It will easily mix as little as 5 lb of bread dough. It will also make over 100 lb of dough. Actually an M802 is kind of a happy medium. I have one where the bowl has a screw/twist mount on the bottom. That tended to pull out when mixing dough, so I beefed up the threads on the bowl by brazing on some additional metal. That fixed it, but if I were to get another I'd get the one where the bowl hangs on pins on either side, that looks a lot stronger to me. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Kitchenaid now is a gussied up whirlpoo. I bought a real kitchenaid new 30 years ago, and it was worked well for the time we were in the house. Don't think KitchenAid sell dishwasher in Oz. Hendrik who is the Kitchen aid ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
It has been my recent experience that KitchenAid is making an attempt to appeal to the high end crowd with their appliances. When we were out shopping, their stuff seemed to be really pricey without offering anything significantly different than lower priced but good quality competitors. I do like their mixers, however. Best small kitchen appliance I ever bought. Dan Sent from my iPhone On Aug 31, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Loren Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com wrote: Kitchenaid now is a gussied up whirlpoo. I bought a real kitchenaid new 30 years ago, and it was worked well for the time we were in the house. Don't think KitchenAid sell dishwasher in Oz. Hendrik who is the Kitchen aid ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
On Friday, September 09, 2011 10:09 AM, Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: It has been my recent experience that KitchenAid is making an attempt to appeal to the high end crowd with their appliances. When we were out shopping, their stuff seemed to be really pricey without offering anything significantly different than lower priced but good quality competitors. We got ours about 5 years ago. At the time it was a bit above average in cost but not what I'd call expensive. It may have been a closeout of a model line though; I don't really recall. What I like about it is that it's quiet, and it only has a couple of cycle options (who really ever uses all those options most dishwashers have), and so far, reliable (knock on wood). I do like their mixers, however. Best small kitchen appliance I ever bought. I have one where the bowl has a screw/twist mount on the bottom. That tended to pull out when mixing dough, so I beefed up the threads on the bowl by brazing on some additional metal. That fixed it, but if I were to get another I'd get the one where the bowl hangs on pins on either side, that looks a lot stronger to me. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
My current KA mixer is the smaller of the two household models with the screw type of bowl, never had a problem with it. I believe it is approaching 15 years in age, and up until our move, was in use almost daily. Only issues I have had with it are the pivot pin likes to work it's way out of the bore during exceptionally heavy tasks, like kneading bread dough, and having to do a little triage to the on/off switch after my oldest son knocked it over on the pantry shelf, which bent the lever an made it start whenever it was powered up. We also have the grinder/mill attachment, which needs to be replaced as the body is cracking with age. I want to buy the larger model with the bowls that use pins. I only regret that I won't be able to use the bowls from the smaller model. Dan Sent from my iPhone On Sep 9, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: On Friday, September 09, 2011 10:09 AM, Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: It has been my recent experience that KitchenAid is making an attempt to appeal to the high end crowd with their appliances. When we were out shopping, their stuff seemed to be really pricey without offering anything significantly different than lower priced but good quality competitors. We got ours about 5 years ago. At the time it was a bit above average in cost but not what I'd call expensive. It may have been a closeout of a model line though; I don't really recall. What I like about it is that it's quiet, and it only has a couple of cycle options (who really ever uses all those options most dishwashers have), and so far, reliable (knock on wood). I do like their mixers, however. Best small kitchen appliance I ever bought. I have one where the bowl has a screw/twist mount on the bottom. That tended to pull out when mixing dough, so I beefed up the threads on the bowl by brazing on some additional metal. That fixed it, but if I were to get another I'd get the one where the bowl hangs on pins on either side, that looks a lot stronger to me. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
We have a KSM5 that I bought for my wife at least 25 years ago. It has made at least one three loaf batch of bread dough every week since then, with the exception of vacations away from home. I had to buy a replacement beater once at the plastic coating was breaking off. We did buy a second bowl for convenience when the mixer gets a lot of use in one day - like Thanksgiving and Christmas times. Also - keep one bowl in the freezer for whipping cream. I keep threatening to take it apart for lubrication and to check the brushes, but it keeps on working, and I haven't gotten around to fixing what hasn't broken yet On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: My current KA mixer is the smaller of the two household models with the screw type of bowl, never had a problem with it. I believe it is approaching 15 years in age, and up until our move, was in use almost daily. Only issues I have had with it are the pivot pin likes to work it's way out of the bore during exceptionally heavy tasks, like kneading bread dough, and having to do a little triage to the on/off switch after my oldest son knocked it over on the pantry shelf, which bent the lever an made it start whenever it was powered up. We also have the grinder/mill attachment, which needs to be replaced as the body is cracking with age. I want to buy the larger model with the bowls that use pins. I only regret that I won't be able to use the bowls from the smaller model. Dan -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
You can find new bowls and attachments pretty cheap on eBay. We had a dough hook that the coating got scratched on, and I was able to find a replacement (new OE) from an eBay seller for about half what KA wanted for it. Dan Sent from my iPhone On Sep 9, 2011, at 11:08 AM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: We have a KSM5 that I bought for my wife at least 25 years ago. It has made at least one three loaf batch of bread dough every week since then, with the exception of vacations away from home. I had to buy a replacement beater once at the plastic coating was breaking off. We did buy a second bowl for convenience when the mixer gets a lot of use in one day - like Thanksgiving and Christmas times. Also - keep one bowl in the freezer for whipping cream. I keep threatening to take it apart for lubrication and to check the brushes, but it keeps on working, and I haven't gotten around to fixing what hasn't broken yet On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: My current KA mixer is the smaller of the two household models with the screw type of bowl, never had a problem with it. I believe it is approaching 15 years in age, and up until our move, was in use almost daily. Only issues I have had with it are the pivot pin likes to work it's way out of the bore during exceptionally heavy tasks, like kneading bread dough, and having to do a little triage to the on/off switch after my oldest son knocked it over on the pantry shelf, which bent the lever an made it start whenever it was powered up. We also have the grinder/mill attachment, which needs to be replaced as the body is cracking with age. I want to buy the larger model with the bowls that use pins. I only regret that I won't be able to use the bowls from the smaller model. Dan -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
OK Don wrote: It has made at least one three loaf batch of bread dough every week since then, From heavy users, I hear that for handling bread the Bosch mixer is the best. I have an old KitchenAid I bought at an auction about a decade ago. It has done very well. I deliberately bought an older model because it seems the quality of the materials has gone down over time. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
I do like their mixers... We have an old one made by Hobart in the USA. It still performs yeoman service despite use...bordering on abuse. It grinds meat, mixes dough...even grinds wheat into flour. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan Penoff Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 7:10 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers It has been my recent experience that KitchenAid is making an attempt to appeal to the high end crowd with their appliances. When we were out shopping, their stuff seemed to be really pricey without offering anything significantly different than lower priced but good quality competitors. I do like their mixers, however. Best small kitchen appliance I ever bought. Dan Sent from my iPhone On Aug 31, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Loren Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com wrote: Kitchenaid now is a gussied up whirlpoo. I bought a real kitchenaid new 30 years ago, and it was worked well for the time we were in the house. Don't think KitchenAid sell dishwasher in Oz. Hendrik who is the Kitchen aid ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Kitchen Aid was owned by Hobart until ~1982. Since then it is owned by whirlypoo. Hobart made the mixers and very good DWs. The current Kitchen aids are whirlypoos with maybe some extra switches or fancy chrome. A KA refer is just a high priced (high profit) Whirlypoo. It has been my recent experience that KitchenAid is making an attempt to appeal to the high end crowd with their appliances. When we were out shopping, their stuff seemed to be really pricey without offering anything significantly different than lower priced but good quality competitors. I do like their mixers, however. Best small kitchen appliance I ever bought. Dan Sent from my iPhone On Aug 31, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Loren Faeth lfa...@leadingchange.com wrote: Kitchenaid now is a gussied up whirlpoo. I bought a real kitchenaid new 30 years ago, and it was worked well for the time we were in the house. Don't think KitchenAid sell dishwasher in Oz. Hendrik who is the Kitchen aid ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
I have both, and I have had problems with neither. The K45 I have with the twister is a hobart made mixer. The K5 is a early whirlypoo model. Neither are really big enough for serious breadmaking. I have a 20 qt hobart that does pretty well for small batches of bread. (Of course that is another order of magnitude of price.) I'd really like a 140 qt hobart if I had space and 3 phase power (and a use for that much dough). It will easily mix as little as 5 lb of bread dough. It will also make over 100 lb of dough. Actually an M802 is kind of a happy medium. I have one where the bowl has a screw/twist mount on the bottom. That tended to pull out when mixing dough, so I beefed up the threads on the bowl by brazing on some additional metal. That fixed it, but if I were to get another I'd get the one where the bowl hangs on pins on either side, that looks a lot stronger to me. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Dieselhead wrote: I'd really like a 140 qt hobart if I had space and 3 phase power (and a use for that much dough). It will easily mix as little as 5 lb of bread dough. It will also make over 100 lb of dough. I would need to buy more bread pans if I had one of those! -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Ja, Me too! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
And ovens! On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Ja, Me too! __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
We bought a Samsung refrigerator from Sears a year ago, similar experience regarding sales clerk. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: We made the rounds on Saturday, just to check everyone out. HH Gregg has a poorly informed salesperson who didn't know the products. The big box stores (Lowes, Home Despot, Best Buy) were woefully inadequate, which was no surprise. We met a saleswoman at Sears who has been doing this for 27 years. She obviously knew her stuff and gave all the right answers. She was the one we came back to today. She put together several packages for us from different manufacturers and price matched every piece and documented it for us. Ultimately, we decided to go with the GE Profile pieces due to our experience with the line (our former home had GE Profile appliances.) It took her nearly 20 minutes just to track down the dishwasher we wanted because GE was discontinuing a number of models and did not have all the replacements in the line. Needless to say, the whole process took nearly 90 minutes, but we got the most competitive prices, too. Dan Sent from my iPhone On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:42 PM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Ah -- that is another point in buying appliances, whether cheap or not -- go to a place where they get commissions, you can get a better deal from someone who is hungry. --R On 9/5/11 10:37 PM, LWB250 wrote: The salesperson busted her *ss for nearly 90 minutes putting it together for us. She earned every penny of her commission. Dan _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
GE do make a good refrigerator though. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Allan Streib Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 8:13 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net writes: The various vendors run these package deals wherein if you buy a stove, refrig, dishwasher, etc. all together you get like a mikanave for free, or some big discount or something. I saw an ad in the paper the other day, I think it was for Kitchenaid stuff (I did not know they sold fridges but there you go), but GE and all the others have them now and then. Check out an appliance dealer, sometimes you can work them for display models as the manufacturer restricts discounting, but if it is used they can knock some amount off the deal. I would advise avoiding GE. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Just closed the deal at Sears today. Bought a GE side by side fridge, convection range with warming drawer, microwave/range hood with convection and a dishwasher. All the Profile line, therefore, qualifies for $500 rebate from GE. Dropped $4k, $3.5k after rebate. Sears researched every bit and matched the competitors plus another 10%. The salesperson busted her *ss for nearly 90 minutes putting it together for us. She earned every penny of her commission. Dan From: Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, September 5, 2011 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers GE do make a good refrigerator though. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Allan Streib Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 8:13 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net writes: The various vendors run these package deals wherein if you buy a stove, refrig, dishwasher, etc. all together you get like a mikanave for free, or some big discount or something. I saw an ad in the paper the other day, I think it was for Kitchenaid stuff (I did not know they sold fridges but there you go), but GE and all the others have them now and then. Check out an appliance dealer, sometimes you can work them for display models as the manufacturer restricts discounting, but if it is used they can knock some amount off the deal. I would advise avoiding GE. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Ah -- that is another point in buying appliances, whether cheap or not -- go to a place where they get commissions, you can get a better deal from someone who is hungry. --R On 9/5/11 10:37 PM, LWB250 wrote: The salesperson busted her *ss for nearly 90 minutes putting it together for us. She earned every penny of her commission. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
We made the rounds on Saturday, just to check everyone out. HH Gregg has a poorly informed salesperson who didn't know the products. The big box stores (Lowes, Home Despot, Best Buy) were woefully inadequate, which was no surprise. We met a saleswoman at Sears who has been doing this for 27 years. She obviously knew her stuff and gave all the right answers. She was the one we came back to today. She put together several packages for us from different manufacturers and price matched every piece and documented it for us. Ultimately, we decided to go with the GE Profile pieces due to our experience with the line (our former home had GE Profile appliances.) It took her nearly 20 minutes just to track down the dishwasher we wanted because GE was discontinuing a number of models and did not have all the replacements in the line. Needless to say, the whole process took nearly 90 minutes, but we got the most competitive prices, too. Dan Sent from my iPhone On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:42 PM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Ah -- that is another point in buying appliances, whether cheap or not -- go to a place where they get commissions, you can get a better deal from someone who is hungry. --R On 9/5/11 10:37 PM, LWB250 wrote: The salesperson busted her *ss for nearly 90 minutes putting it together for us. She earned every penny of her commission. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net writes: GE do make a good refrigerator though. Mine isn't. -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
What is the model number? Our Whirlpool is 17 years old, barely limping along now, and I'd rather install new than try to fix this ancient loud washer. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: I think I must have read the same CR report, and purchased the same dishwasher. Wife is VERY happy with it. Our experience mirrors Gregs. On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.netwrote: We just replaced an old whirlpool a few months back. I went with a higher-end Kenmore because it was listed as the best (of those tested) as well as a best buy by Consumer Reports. I am actually surprised by how good it is! Consumer reports says that a SS tub is a waste of money; the plastic tub will outlast all other elements of the machine. Based on my experience, I agree. The Kenmore has a lot more room than our previous washer, and the racks are well thought out and very adjustable. It even has provision for stemware! Their instructions say not to pre-rinse (only scrape) as it is not necessary and a waste of water. To my surprise this is accurate! My cousin has a commercial grade $2K machine, one of a batch he bought at auction. He is very proud of this machine, which is nearly silent and completes its cycle in just a few minutes. He has to pre-rinse though, and his dishes do not always come out as clean as mine! I actually have seen a substantial reduction in our utility bills since installing this item. I wonder if this can be coincidence. I am not any sort of fan of Sears, just a very satisfied user of this appliance! Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Hendrik Fay Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 6:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. I pulled the bottom of our current dishwasher and tested the pump, all seems to be working. Hendrik _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
This has been an interesting thread, since we are about to move into a new (to us) house that we will have to purchase a complete set of appliances for (refrigerator, oven/range, microwave, dishwasher.) While we have made cursory glances at stuff at the big box stores, Sears' commercial division sells to school district employees at wholesale prices down here. Since they represent about 10-15 different product lines besides Kenmore, we're going to meet with them and see what they have to offer. I like the LG stuff I have seen so far, otherwise I don't have much of an opinion on any other brand. Dan From: Rolf r...@winmutt.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers My mom has LG dish washer and W/D. They both 5yrs old and run like a top. The W/D unit is self contained, you pour the whole bottle of soap in, put clothes in and they come out dry. If it could fold clothes I would buy 2. The LG dish washer is some serious quality as well. -Rolf On 08/31/2011 09:57 PM, Hendrik Fay wrote: Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. I pulled the bottom of our current dishwasher and tested the pump, all seems to be working. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
The various vendors run these package deals wherein if you buy a stove, refrig, dishwasher, etc. all together you get like a mikanave for free, or some big discount or something. I saw an ad in the paper the other day, I think it was for Kitchenaid stuff (I did not know they sold fridges but there you go), but GE and all the others have them now and then. Check out an appliance dealer, sometimes you can work them for display models as the manufacturer restricts discounting, but if it is used they can knock some amount off the deal. And it's not like they are selling stuff like free beer these days, go in and work on them for a package deal, here is what I will pay today for this this and this, what can you do. Oh, and free delivery and set up too. --R On 9/2/11 8:01 PM, LWB250 wrote: This has been an interesting thread, since we are about to move into a new (to us) house that we will have to purchase a complete set of appliances for (refrigerator, oven/range, microwave, dishwasher.) While we have made cursory glances at stuff at the big box stores, Sears' commercial division sells to school district employees at wholesale prices down here. Since they represent about 10-15 different product lines besides Kenmore, we're going to meet with them and see what they have to offer. I like the LG stuff I have seen so far, otherwise I don't have much of an opinion on any other brand. Dan From: Rolfr...@winmutt.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers My mom has LG dish washer and W/D. They both 5yrs old and run like a top. The W/D unit is self contained, you pour the whole bottle of soap in, put clothes in and they come out dry. If it could fold clothes I would buy 2. The LG dish washer is some serious quality as well. -Rolf On 08/31/2011 09:57 PM, Hendrik Fay wrote: Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. I pulled the bottom of our current dishwasher and tested the pump, all seems to be working. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net writes: The various vendors run these package deals wherein if you buy a stove, refrig, dishwasher, etc. all together you get like a mikanave for free, or some big discount or something. I saw an ad in the paper the other day, I think it was for Kitchenaid stuff (I did not know they sold fridges but there you go), but GE and all the others have them now and then. Check out an appliance dealer, sometimes you can work them for display models as the manufacturer restricts discounting, but if it is used they can knock some amount off the deal. I would advise avoiding GE. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Hendrik Fay wrote: But this begs the question, why would a manufacturer risk losing their reputation for quality by cheaping out? That's the problem with corporate governance today, too many in upper management can't see past their next bonus check. Sort of like politicians who want to kick the problems down the road so they blow up on somebody else's watch. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Don't know if they do business in Australia but a great site for appliance repair info and parts is http://www.repairclinic.com Allan On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 12:23 +0930, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Yeah the Bosch units have a reputation for being quiet. The S/H one I am looking at is made in the Fatherland. The problem I see is that a Whirlpool machine is not worth repairing, specially seeing that a main wash pump costs between AU$250-300 and that may not be the problem with it, getting an expert out to look at it will cost $$$'s, so I figure spending AU$150 on an older Bosch makes more sense, at least a Bosch will be worth repairing. There is a fair price range of different new Bosch models, from AU$600-AU$2000, so I am not sure if the internal bits on a 600 machine is the same as a 2K machine. As a side note, I think Siemens sells re-branded Bosch dishwashers and Miele don't have that good a reputation anymore http://www.productreview.com.au/c/dishwashers/m/miele.html http://www.productreview.com.au/c/dishwashers/m/bosch.html Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 12:39 +0930, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: But this begs the question, why would a manufacturer risk losing their reputation for quality by cheaping out? Most people will take the immediate savings of a lower price vs. the longer term savings and greater enjoyment of buying a quality item. Related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment In this case many people will take the immediate reward of a low price over the longer term deferred gratification of higher reliability, better performance, and lower total cost of ownership. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 08:51:30 -0400 Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Don't know if they do business in Australia but a great site for appliance repair info and parts is http://www.repairclinic.com I second that! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Most people will take the immediate savings of a lower price vs. the longer term savings and greater enjoyment of buying a quality item. Related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment In this case many people will take the immediate reward of a low price over the longer term deferred gratification of higher reliability, better performance, and lower total cost of ownership. Or, they didn't believe the Stanford people would let them keep the marshmallow, and wouldn't make good on the two-marshmallow promise either. -Tim Don't trust anyone over 30! Also, Bing nursery school... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
We just replaced an old whirlpool a few months back. I went with a higher-end Kenmore because it was listed as the best (of those tested) as well as a best buy by Consumer Reports. I am actually surprised by how good it is! Consumer reports says that a SS tub is a waste of money; the plastic tub will outlast all other elements of the machine. Based on my experience, I agree. The Kenmore has a lot more room than our previous washer, and the racks are well thought out and very adjustable. It even has provision for stemware! Their instructions say not to pre-rinse (only scrape) as it is not necessary and a waste of water. To my surprise this is accurate! My cousin has a commercial grade $2K machine, one of a batch he bought at auction. He is very proud of this machine, which is nearly silent and completes its cycle in just a few minutes. He has to pre-rinse though, and his dishes do not always come out as clean as mine! I actually have seen a substantial reduction in our utility bills since installing this item. I wonder if this can be coincidence. I am not any sort of fan of Sears, just a very satisfied user of this appliance! Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Hendrik Fay Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 6:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. I pulled the bottom of our current dishwasher and tested the pump, all seems to be working. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
The plastic tub liners absorb nasty smells, unlike SS. On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.netwrote: We just replaced an old whirlpool a few months back. I went with a higher-end Kenmore because it was listed as the best (of those tested) as well as a best buy by Consumer Reports. I am actually surprised by how good it is! Consumer reports says that a SS tub is a waste of money; the plastic tub will outlast all other elements of the machine. Based on my experience, I agree. The Kenmore has a lot more room than our previous washer, and the racks are well thought out and very adjustable. It even has provision for stemware! Their instructions say not to pre-rinse (only scrape) as it is not necessary and a waste of water. To my surprise this is accurate! My cousin has a commercial grade $2K machine, one of a batch he bought at auction. He is very proud of this machine, which is nearly silent and completes its cycle in just a few minutes. He has to pre-rinse though, and his dishes do not always come out as clean as mine! I actually have seen a substantial reduction in our utility bills since installing this item. I wonder if this can be coincidence. I am not any sort of fan of Sears, just a very satisfied user of this appliance! Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Hendrik Fay Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 6:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. I pulled the bottom of our current dishwasher and tested the pump, all seems to be working. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 11:16 -0700, Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net wrote: My cousin has a commercial grade $2K machine, one of a batch he bought at auction. He is very proud of this machine, which is nearly silent and completes its cycle in just a few minutes. He has to pre-rinse though, and his dishes do not always come out as clean as mine! We had one of those at a restaurant, they are designed to wash dishes quickly and with the assumption that there is no dried-on material to remove; they expect the dishes will go from the busboy's cart into the wash before anything really gets a chance to harden or dry. I am not any sort of fan of Sears, just a very satisfied user of this appliance! Sears does not actually make their own appliances. Kenmore has been made by several manufactures over the years and I don't know who's making them now. At one point I think a lot of their stuff was Whirlpool. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Yes, I believe this unit is in fact manufactured by Whirlpool. I am sure, however that it is manufactured to Kenmore specs. It also proves that Whirlpool is capable of producing a quality product, even though they do not market a dishwasher of this quality under their own brand label. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Allan Streib Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:34 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List; 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 11:16 -0700, Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net wrote: My cousin has a commercial grade $2K machine, one of a batch he bought at auction. He is very proud of this machine, which is nearly silent and completes its cycle in just a few minutes. He has to pre-rinse though, and his dishes do not always come out as clean as mine! We had one of those at a restaurant, they are designed to wash dishes quickly and with the assumption that there is no dried-on material to remove; they expect the dishes will go from the busboy's cart into the wash before anything really gets a chance to harden or dry. I am not any sort of fan of Sears, just a very satisfied user of this appliance! Sears does not actually make their own appliances. Kenmore has been made by several manufactures over the years and I don't know who's making them now. At one point I think a lot of their stuff was Whirlpool. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
SS can get some funk going on as well, I guess stuff gets trapped in all the parts down below. On 9/1/2011 1:29 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: The plastic tub liners absorb nasty smells, unlike SS. On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Greg Fiorentinogf...@dslnorthwest.netwrote: We just replaced an old whirlpool a few months back. I went with a higher-end Kenmore because it was listed as the best (of those tested) as well as a best buy by Consumer Reports. I am actually surprised by how good it is! Consumer reports says that a SS tub is a waste of money; the plastic tub will outlast all other elements of the machine. Based on my experience, I agree. The Kenmore has a lot more room than our previous washer, and the racks are well thought out and very adjustable. It even has provision for stemware! Their instructions say not to pre-rinse (only scrape) as it is not necessary and a waste of water. To my surprise this is accurate! My cousin has a commercial grade $2K machine, one of a batch he bought at auction. He is very proud of this machine, which is nearly silent and completes its cycle in just a few minutes. He has to pre-rinse though, and his dishes do not always come out as clean as mine! I actually have seen a substantial reduction in our utility bills since installing this item. I wonder if this can be coincidence. I am not any sort of fan of Sears, just a very satisfied user of this appliance! Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Hendrik Fay Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 6:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. I pulled the bottom of our current dishwasher and tested the pump, all seems to be working. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
So we can say that 2/3rds of the population will buy cheap and then whinge when it does not do the job properly. I suppose dishwashers are a classic example of you get what you pay for. I can understand someone who went for a supposed quality machine like a Miele and then finds it does not do as well as it should, having a whine but the person who goes into the store without doing research and buys the cheapest machine they have, should not have a right to complain if the machine does not wash the dishes properly, is loud, uses lots of water and electricity, breaks down and then finds that part availability is close to zero. Hendrik who sometimes cheaps out but doesn't whinge about it Allan Streib wrote: On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 12:39 +0930, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: But this begs the question, why would a manufacturer risk losing their reputation for quality by cheaping out? Most people will take the immediate savings of a lower price vs. the longer term savings and greater enjoyment of buying a quality item. Related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment In this case many people will take the immediate reward of a low price over the longer term deferred gratification of higher reliability, better performance, and lower total cost of ownership. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
I think I must have read the same CR report, and purchased the same dishwasher. Wife is VERY happy with it. Our experience mirrors Gregs. On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.netwrote: We just replaced an old whirlpool a few months back. I went with a higher-end Kenmore because it was listed as the best (of those tested) as well as a best buy by Consumer Reports. I am actually surprised by how good it is! Consumer reports says that a SS tub is a waste of money; the plastic tub will outlast all other elements of the machine. Based on my experience, I agree. The Kenmore has a lot more room than our previous washer, and the racks are well thought out and very adjustable. It even has provision for stemware! Their instructions say not to pre-rinse (only scrape) as it is not necessary and a waste of water. To my surprise this is accurate! My cousin has a commercial grade $2K machine, one of a batch he bought at auction. He is very proud of this machine, which is nearly silent and completes its cycle in just a few minutes. He has to pre-rinse though, and his dishes do not always come out as clean as mine! I actually have seen a substantial reduction in our utility bills since installing this item. I wonder if this can be coincidence. I am not any sort of fan of Sears, just a very satisfied user of this appliance! Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Hendrik Fay Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 6:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. I pulled the bottom of our current dishwasher and tested the pump, all seems to be working. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Ours has not absorbed any nasty smells in the last year or so that we've had it. Just don't store dirty dishes in it for any extended length of time? On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 1:29 PM, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.comwrote: The plastic tub liners absorb nasty smells, unlike SS. On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net wrote: -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
OK Don okd...@gmail.com writes: Ours has not absorbed any nasty smells in the last year or so that we've had it. Just don't store dirty dishes in it for any extended length of time? Yeah most automatic diswashing detergent has a pretty big shot of bleach in it, I would not think that smells would be a problem if you use your dishwasher regularly. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
So you could resist the temptation of cheaper price? Don't think we get Kenmore stuff up here. We had a spike in our electricity bill in the last 1/4, which I am contributing as being the dishwashers fault, cycle seems to take longer than it used to. Current quality dishwashers use less power and water than they did, some even internally recycle water. I think it works by saving the water from the final rinse cycle and using that in the next load. Hendrik who sometimes eats marshmallows OK Don wrote: I think I must have read the same CR report, and purchased the same dishwasher. Wife is VERY happy with it. Our experience mirrors Gregs. On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.netwrote: We just replaced an old whirlpool a few months back. I went with a higher-end Kenmore because it was listed as the best (of those tested) as well as a best buy by Consumer Reports. I am actually surprised by how good it is! Consumer reports says that a SS tub is a waste of money; the plastic tub will outlast all other elements of the machine. Based on my experience, I agree. The Kenmore has a lot more room than our previous washer, and the racks are well thought out and very adjustable. It even has provision for stemware! Their instructions say not to pre-rinse (only scrape) as it is not necessary and a waste of water. To my surprise this is accurate! My cousin has a commercial grade $2K machine, one of a batch he bought at auction. He is very proud of this machine, which is nearly silent and completes its cycle in just a few minutes. He has to pre-rinse though, and his dishes do not always come out as clean as mine! I actually have seen a substantial reduction in our utility bills since installing this item. I wonder if this can be coincidence. I am not any sort of fan of Sears, just a very satisfied user of this appliance! Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Hendrik Fay Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 6:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. I pulled the bottom of our current dishwasher and tested the pump, all seems to be working. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: We had a spike in our electricity bill in the last 1/4, which I am contributing as being the dishwashers fault, cycle seems to take longer than it used to. Use the no-heat dry setting, takes longer (or hand dry while they are still warm, very quick) but saves a lot on electricity. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
I use the sanitary rinse setting on mine, but disable the heated dry cycle. I leave the door open when the cycle ends and the residual heat of the dishes evaporates the remaining water very quickly. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Allan Streib Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:39 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: We had a spike in our electricity bill in the last 1/4, which I am contributing as being the dishwashers fault, cycle seems to take longer than it used to. Use the no-heat dry setting, takes longer (or hand dry while they are still warm, very quick) but saves a lot on electricity. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
I was of two different minds on dishwashers. One mind is that you can find really cheap ones, like floor displays or something, last year's model, whatever, for really cheap. Then you use them, they do an OK job, then crap out after awhile then you do the same again. I can swap one out in an hour or so, no big deal. Or, spend a few (or a lot) more dinero and get a good one and it lasts for quite some time. the problem comes in spending the extra ching then the thing turns out to be not much better than the cheap ones. Which is what I discovered when I replaced the expensive Kitchenaid some years ago -- the ultra cheap thing I bought had exactly the same guts as the expensive Kitchenaid -- all that differed was the KA had a fancy button panel and some extra insulation, and maybe a steel tub vs a plastic one. But everything mechanical was identical -- pump, timer, a coupla solenoids, etc. (there really isn't a lot more to them than that, mechanics-wise). Turned out it was almost cheaper to buy the cheap thing and scavenge the parts to repair the expensive one than to go buy replacement parts, had I been so inclined. All that said, the Bosches seem to be a cut above from my prior experience, but YMMV. --R On 9/1/11 7:24 PM, Hendrik Fay wrote: So we can say that 2/3rds of the population will buy cheap and then whinge when it does not do the job properly. I suppose dishwashers are a classic example of you get what you pay for. I can understand someone who went for a supposed quality machine like a Miele and then finds it does not do as well as it should, having a whine but the person who goes into the store without doing research and buys the cheapest machine they have, should not have a right to complain if the machine does not wash the dishes properly, is loud, uses lots of water and electricity, breaks down and then finds that part availability is close to zero. Hendrik who sometimes cheaps out but doesn't whinge about it Allan Streib wrote: On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 12:39 +0930, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au wrote: But this begs the question, why would a manufacturer risk losing their reputation for quality by cheaping out? Most people will take the immediate savings of a lower price vs. the longer term savings and greater enjoyment of buying a quality item. Related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment In this case many people will take the immediate reward of a low price over the longer term deferred gratification of higher reliability, better performance, and lower total cost of ownership. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. I pulled the bottom of our current dishwasher and tested the pump, all seems to be working. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. We have a KitchenAid, and have been very pleased with it for over 5 years. Stainless steel tub, and a very to-the-point control panel (three cycles: normal, heavy-duty, rinse only). Sorry I'm not answering your question about Bosch; no experience with that brand in appliances. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
I have bought and installed 2 Bosch dishwashers to replace POS whatevers. They are very quiet (wifey just started ours a few minutes ago, can't hear it running) and do a great job washing the dishes in them. All the models seem to have the same guts but differ in the controls (location, buttons, electronic, etc.) and the tray thingies inside. I bought one a coupla years ago from Lowes (our big box home supplies store) from the floor, was the cheap model with pushbuttons, and got the guy to swap the trays in it with another one there that had ones I liked better. (then I beat him down on the price because it was a floor display) Last I heard the US Bosch dishwashers were manufactured here in the US, in North or maybe South Carolina. Not sure what y'all get in the Antipodes. When you remove your old one, save the insulator blanket and put it on the new one, to get double quiet! --R On 8/31/11 9:57 PM, Hendrik Fay wrote: Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. I pulled the bottom of our current dishwasher and tested the pump, all seems to be working. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Daughter and SIL have Bosch they love them. Daughter's is 5 years old and had no problems. SIL is about 15 yo and only repair was door gasket thanks to one of her nieces. Both units are very quite more than a few feet away and you can't tell they are running. Russ W. On 8/31/2011 8:57 PM, Hendrik Fay wrote: Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. I pulled the bottom of our current dishwasher and tested the pump, all seems to be working. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3868 - Release Date: 08/30/11 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
On Aug 31, 2011 10:09 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:
Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes:
Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the
quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut
costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey.
Quality is probably luck of the draw if you are shopping low end of any
brand. {Possibly also high end, for that matter.) By way of personal
experience I once bought a broken Bosch washer, it was easy to work on.
However it wasn't supposed to be broken, thus I returned it after proving
what was wrong would cost money to fix.
We have a Fisher Paykel DD602 we bought known broken and I nursed back to
health; that machine is great to work on because you can leave one drawer
inop and the other one still works! It is showing its age but was cheap
($100 pickup only on Ebay), it seems like they should be more common on your
side of the world...
If you don't want a used dishwasher then I have no ideas, I've only bought
one new - cheapest of the cheap - and it was loud and annoying. Then I sold
the house.
Best,
Tim
Alternatively, why don't you just ask your butler to do the dishes?
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Don't think KitchenAid sell dishwasher in Oz. Hendrik who is the Kitchen aid Allan Streib wrote: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: Our Whirlpoo dishwasher is making some expensive noises and I might have to get another one, or wash the dishes by hand, which takes me half a day. I am going to look at a S/H Bosch machine on Saturday, as it seems Bosch are the best ones unless you want to spend a squillion. Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey. We have a KitchenAid, and have been very pleased with it for over 5 years. Stainless steel tub, and a very to-the-point control panel (three cycles: normal, heavy-duty, rinse only). Sorry I'm not answering your question about Bosch; no experience with that brand in appliances. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Yeah the Bosch units have a reputation for being quiet. The S/H one I am looking at is made in the Fatherland. The problem I see is that a Whirlpool machine is not worth repairing, specially seeing that a main wash pump costs between AU$250-300 and that may not be the problem with it, getting an expert out to look at it will cost $$$'s, so I figure spending AU$150 on an older Bosch makes more sense, at least a Bosch will be worth repairing. There is a fair price range of different new Bosch models, from AU$600-AU$2000, so I am not sure if the internal bits on a 600 machine is the same as a 2K machine. As a side note, I think Siemens sells re-branded Bosch dishwashers and Miele don't have that good a reputation anymore http://www.productreview.com.au/c/dishwashers/m/miele.html http://www.productreview.com.au/c/dishwashers/m/bosch.html Hendrik Rich Thomas wrote: I have bought and installed 2 Bosch dishwashers to replace POS whatevers. They are very quiet (wifey just started ours a few minutes ago, can't hear it running) and do a great job washing the dishes in them. All the models seem to have the same guts but differ in the controls (location, buttons, electronic, etc.) and the tray thingies inside. I bought one a coupla years ago from Lowes (our big box home supplies store) from the floor, was the cheap model with pushbuttons, and got the guy to swap the trays in it with another one there that had ones I liked better. (then I beat him down on the price because it was a floor display) Last I heard the US Bosch dishwashers were manufactured here in the US, in North or maybe South Carolina. Not sure what y'all get in the Antipodes. When you remove your old one, save the insulator blanket and put it on the new one, to get double quiet! --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
But this begs the question, why would a manufacturer risk losing their
reputation for quality by cheaping out?
Guess we have all heard about companies starting/buying another company
to act as a agent for low end products, so as not to damage the main
companies image.
A good reputation takes years/decades to build and not very long to destroy.
The S/H Bosch I am looking at is supposed to be in good condition but I
would want the seller to guarantee that it is working as it should.
Don't know much about FP dishwashers but they don't have a good reputation
http://www.productreview.com.au/c/dishwashers/m/fisher-paykel.html
And the butler is busy polishing the wheels on the Merc, can't afford a
chauffeur as well.
Hendrik
Tim C wrote:
On Aug 31, 2011 10:09 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:
Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes:
Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the
quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut
costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey.
Quality is probably luck of the draw if you are shopping low end of any
brand. {Possibly also high end, for that matter.) By way of personal
experience I once bought a broken Bosch washer, it was easy to work on.
However it wasn't supposed to be broken, thus I returned it after proving
what was wrong would cost money to fix.
We have a Fisher Paykel DD602 we bought known broken and I nursed back to
health; that machine is great to work on because you can leave one drawer
inop and the other one still works! It is showing its age but was cheap
($100 pickup only on Ebay), it seems like they should be more common on your
side of the world...
If you don't want a used dishwasher then I have no ideas, I've only bought
one new - cheapest of the cheap - and it was loud and annoying. Then I sold
the house.
Best,
Tim
Alternatively, why don't you just ask your butler to do the dishes?
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Good, better, Bosch dishwashers
Bosch dishwashers truly rock. You can load them any which way and they
still get the dishes sparkling clean A quaint touch is the manual-clean
food strainer at the bottom, which is a snap to remove and clean.
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.auwrote:
But this begs the question, why would a manufacturer risk losing their
reputation for quality by cheaping out?
Guess we have all heard about companies starting/buying another company to
act as a agent for low end products, so as not to damage the main companies
image.
A good reputation takes years/decades to build and not very long to
destroy.
The S/H Bosch I am looking at is supposed to be in good condition but I
would want the seller to guarantee that it is working as it should.
Don't know much about FP dishwashers but they don't have a good reputation
http://www.productreview.com.**au/c/dishwashers/m/fisher-**paykel.htmlhttp://www.productreview.com.au/c/dishwashers/m/fisher-paykel.html
And the butler is busy polishing the wheels on the Merc, can't afford a
chauffeur as well.
Hendrik
Tim C wrote:
On Aug 31, 2011 10:09 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:
Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes:
Any experience with Bosch dishwashers? Some people say that the
quality of the Bosch washers is going downhill as they try to cut
costs by manufacturing low end machines in Turkey.
Quality is probably luck of the draw if you are shopping low end of any
brand. {Possibly also high end, for that matter.) By way of personal
experience I once bought a broken Bosch washer, it was easy to work on.
However it wasn't supposed to be broken, thus I returned it after proving
what was wrong would cost money to fix.
We have a Fisher Paykel DD602 we bought known broken and I nursed back to
health; that machine is great to work on because you can leave one drawer
inop and the other one still works! It is showing its age but was cheap
($100 pickup only on Ebay), it seems like they should be more common on
your
side of the world...
If you don't want a used dishwasher then I have no ideas, I've only bought
one new - cheapest of the cheap - and it was loud and annoying. Then I
sold
the house.
Best,
Tim
Alternatively, why don't you just ask your butler to do the dishes?
__**_
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives
http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
