Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
I've found the diesel fuel in this part of the country (South Carolina) will
fluoresce under a "black light", for example the type of light you use to find
refrigerant leaks after filling with leak detection fluid. This makes it easy
to see where diesel fuel is leaking.
-Max
From: John Reames
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 12:39:36 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing...NOW
training/education")
On Feb 4, 2011, at 23:11, Craig wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 22:27:02 -0500 John Reames
> wrote:
>> It isn't like the workbooks don't come close to it (" __ + 3 = 5 " is
>> identical to "x+3=5; solve for x", except people make a bigger fuss
>> about the latter being more complex because you can't add or subtract
>> letters to/from things (which isn't strictly true even in bases less
>> than 10))
>
> Does he work the " __ + 3 = 5 " kind of problem already? If so, "Here is
> a number we don't know, but rather than call it, 'The Number We Don't
> Know,' how about we call it something? What do you think? You know, we
> cannot call it by another number, since we don't know what its value is
> yet. How about we call it by a letter? How about the letter 'x'? Once we
> call it 'x', maybe we can trick it into telling us what it is ... "
That's exactly my point, and the kind of thing that I have in mind... (I've
also
been slipping in some things like "Isn't 13+14 the same as 13+4+10?"... mainly
as a way of speeding up mental arithmetic)
>> He's no flat-earther, although I haven't been able to show him
>> experimentally that the earth is round... I guess we could go for a
>> field trip, and go across the lake pontchartrain causeway, abusing a
>> gps for elevation...
>
> At 24 miles across, it will be more than enough to show him that things
> disappear over the horizon. You could introduce him to the concept that
> water tends to form a constant-height surface ("sea level"),
Yep, that is exactly WHY I would use that as an example... It's just a little
far from Baltimore.
He has figured out that water will be "flat", and he also has noticed that the
level of the water is independent of the edges of the container it is in (a cup
that isn't held just right will spill in one place only)
I've also shown him that if you carefully fill a level container with water,
you
can have the water go above the top of the container without spilling.
Speaking of physics experiments, when bleeding the (clear) plastic fuel lines
in
one of the OM606, I noticed that it was it difficult to tell whether a line was
completely filled with air or completely filled with fuel (since they turn
yellow/brown with age). What I ended up doing is shining a laser pointer
through the line at an angle; if the line were filled with air, the beam would
not be (significantly) refracted, but if fuel was in the line... Refraction!
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
I'll look into that! -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Feb 6, 2011, at 10:31, Craig wrote: > On Sun, 6 Feb 2011 00:39:36 -0500 John Reames > wrote: > >> (I've also been slipping in some things like "Isn't 13+14 the same as 13 >> +4+10?"... mainly as a way of speeding up mental arithmetic) > > Good idea. > > go across the lake pontchartrain causeway, abusing a gps for elevation... >>> >> Yep, that is exactly WHY I would use that as an example... It's just a >> little far from Baltimore. > > How about from Fort Story near Virginia Beach over Highway 13 to > Fishermans Island National Wildlife Refuge? That's a lot closer to > Baltimore. The bridge is about 15 miles long and, IIRC, six miles over > water will show an effect. > > >> I've also shown him that if you carefully fill a level container with >> water, you can have the water go above the top of the container without >> spilling. > > An then it's only a short step to Archimedes' Eureka moment ... > > >> What I ended up doing is shining a laser pointer through the line at an >> angle; if the line were filled with air, the beam would not be >> (significantly) refracted, but if fuel was in the line... Refraction! > > Wonderful idea! I just bought new lines ... > > > Craig > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
On Sun, 6 Feb 2011 00:39:36 -0500 John Reames wrote: > (I've also been slipping in some things like "Isn't 13+14 the same as 13 > +4+10?"... mainly as a way of speeding up mental arithmetic) Good idea. > >> go across the lake pontchartrain causeway, abusing a gps for > >> elevation... > > > Yep, that is exactly WHY I would use that as an example... It's just a > little far from Baltimore. How about from Fort Story near Virginia Beach over Highway 13 to Fishermans Island National Wildlife Refuge? That's a lot closer to Baltimore. The bridge is about 15 miles long and, IIRC, six miles over water will show an effect. > I've also shown him that if you carefully fill a level container with > water, you can have the water go above the top of the container without > spilling. An then it's only a short step to Archimedes' Eureka moment ... > What I ended up doing is shining a laser pointer through the line at an > angle; if the line were filled with air, the beam would not be > (significantly) refracted, but if fuel was in the line... Refraction! Wonderful idea! I just bought new lines ... Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
On Feb 4, 2011, at 23:11, Craig wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 22:27:02 -0500 John Reames
> wrote:
>> It isn't like the workbooks don't come close to it (" __ + 3 = 5 " is
>> identical to "x+3=5; solve for x", except people make a bigger fuss
>> about the latter being more complex because you can't add or subtract
>> letters to/from things (which isn't strictly true even in bases less
>> than 10))
>
> Does he work the " __ + 3 = 5 " kind of problem already? If so, "Here is
> a number we don't know, but rather than call it, 'The Number We Don't
> Know,' how about we call it something? What do you think? You know, we
> cannot call it by another number, since we don't know what its value is
> yet. How about we call it by a letter? How about the letter 'x'? Once we
> call it 'x', maybe we can trick it into telling us what it is ... "
That's exactly my point, and the kind of thing that I have in mind... (I've
also been slipping in some things like "Isn't 13+14 the same as 13+4+10?"...
mainly as a way of speeding up mental arithmetic)
>> He's no flat-earther, although I haven't been able to show him
>> experimentally that the earth is round... I guess we could go for a
>> field trip, and go across the lake pontchartrain causeway, abusing a
>> gps for elevation...
>
> At 24 miles across, it will be more than enough to show him that things
> disappear over the horizon. You could introduce him to the concept that
> water tends to form a constant-height surface ("sea level"),
Yep, that is exactly WHY I would use that as an example... It's just a little
far from Baltimore.
He has figured out that water will be "flat", and he also has noticed that the
level of the water is independent of the edges of the container it is in (a cup
that isn't held just right will spill in one place only)
I've also shown him that if you carefully fill a level container with water,
you can have the water go above the top of the container without spilling.
Speaking of physics experiments, when bleeding the (clear) plastic fuel lines
in one of the OM606, I noticed that it was it difficult to tell whether a line
was completely filled with air or completely filled with fuel (since they turn
yellow/brown with age). What I ended up doing is shining a laser pointer
through the line at an angle; if the line were filled with air, the beam would
not be (significantly) refracted, but if fuel was in the line... Refraction!
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
John wrote: > The schools system(s) don't seem to know... Systems are good for some things, but education does not seem to lend itself to systems approaches. If you want that kid to learn, best get him out of the systems approach as you have already identified too many problems in their approaches and tactics. We saw that 30 years ago and as a result tax dollars never paid for any of the education of our children. Anyone with a will to teach can do a better job of tutoring a child than the wage earner that has zero skin in the game. Your have skin in the game already - do the job and continue to enjoy what you have already gotten started. Don't let someone else rob you of that enjoyment - it is your task, do it. Teaching is not a profession - it is a dedication, and as a parent, you have already put that together and need to carry that forward rather than handing it off to a wage earner. Kids are worth a million - invest that in them instead of passing that task off to some union member that cares more about wage and benefits than your particular child. The rant has just begun... mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
Abnormal, I remember it well. Walt On Feb 4, 2011 11:13 PM, "Craig" wrote: > On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 22:55:12 -0500 Walt Zarnoch > wrote: > >> In my psych class a year back, I learned something. >> Strictly speaking, a well-employed person with a degree, is abnormal. > > Abnormal, or not average? > > > Craig > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 23:08:27 -0500 "WILTON" wrote: > I'd love to. > > Wilton You have our permission to have at it. Craig > > - Original Message - > From: "Craig" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:02 PM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing...NOW > training/education") > > > > On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:43:07 -0500 "WILTON" wrote: > > > >> Lacy needs to find something productive to do for the nice salary > >> we're paying him. > > > > Sounds like your next project, Wilton, is to make sure that happens. > > > > > > Craig > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Craig -- Present:'94 E420Oskar 118 kmi '82 240D/3.0Bluebell 264 kmi Past: '86 190E/2.3 '72 220/8 '64 190Dc Emma '72 220D/8 Herman 186 kmi ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 22:55:12 -0500 Walt Zarnoch wrote: > In my psych class a year back, I learned something. > Strictly speaking, a well-employed person with a degree, is abnormal. Abnormal, or not average? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 22:27:02 -0500 John Reames
wrote:
> So, once a kid has the specifics of arithmetic evaluations done, would
> it be wrong to start introducing more general forms of expressions (aka
> algebra...)??
Wrong? Why would it be wrong if you just pointed out interesting things?
> It isn't like the workbooks don't come close to it (" __ + 3 = 5 " is
> identical to "x+3=5; solve for x", except people make a bigger fuss
> about the latter being more complex because you can't add or subtract
> letters to/from things (which isn't strictly true even in bases less
> than 10))
Does he work the " __ + 3 = 5 " kind of problem already? If so, "Here is
a number we don't know, but rather than call it, 'The Number We Don't
Know,' how about we call it something? What do you think? You know, we
cannot call it by another number, since we don't know what its value is
yet. How about we call it by a letter? How about the letter 'x'? Once we
call it 'x', maybe we can trick it into telling us what it is ... "
> He's no flat-earther, although I haven't been able to show him
> experimentally that the earth is round... I guess we could go for a
> field trip, and go across the lake pontchartrain causeway, abusing a
> gps for elevation...
At 24 miles across, it will be more than enough to show him that things
disappear over the horizon. You could introduce him to the concept that
water tends to form a constant-height surface ("sea level"), but that
might be a little much.
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
I'd love to. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Craig" To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing...NOW training/education") On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:43:07 -0500 "WILTON" wrote: Lacy needs to find something productive to do for the nice salary we're paying him. Sounds like your next project, Wilton, is to make sure that happens. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
In my psych class a year back, I learned something. Strictly speaking, a well-employed person with a degree, is abnormal. The definition of normal slides depending on the geographic location as well, so "normal" is "different" all the time. If we keep everyone "normal", then we're on the fast track to our own demise. Saddly, I see our school system do just that. Walt On Feb 4, 2011 10:27 PM, "John Reames" wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
Ding ding ding! (we have a winner!)
I'm glad to be corrected there... I haven't integrated in... Well I wont go
there ...
So, once a kid has the specifics of arithmetic evaluations done, would it be
wrong to start introducing more general forms of expressions (aka algebra...)??
It isn't like the workbooks don't come close to it (" __ + 3 = 5 " is identical
to "x+3=5; solve for x", except people make a bigger fuss about the latter
being more complex because you can't add or subtract letters to/from things
(which isn't strictly true even in bases less than 10))
I figure that if he doesn't form preconceived notions about math, then learning
more of it will be easier since he won't have to unlearn partial/incorrect
information)
He's no flat-earther, although I haven't been able to show him experimentally
that the earth is round... (sometimes its good to be able to verify things
At this point it's just knowing it from having a globe around since he was 2...
I guess we could go for a field trip, and go across the lake pontchartrain
causeway, abusing a gps for elevation...
--
John W Reames
jwrea...@comcast.net
Home: +14106646986
Mobile: +14437915905
On Feb 4, 2011, at 20:59, Craig wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 11:51:43 -0500 John Reames
> wrote:
>
>> What is the area under a singular point under a curve? (Isn't the area
>> under a point effectively zero?)
>
> No, it's identically zero.
>
>
>> If no one can be disadvantaged relative to others, can you even have a
>> concept such as "excellence"?
>
> No.
>
>Truth by its nature must be exclusive,
>else there would be no falsehood.
>And if there is not falsehood,
>there can be no truth.
> Ravi Zacharias
>
>
> Craig
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
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Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:43:07 -0500 "WILTON" wrote: > Lacy needs to find something productive to do for the nice salary we're > paying him. Sounds like your next project, Wilton, is to make sure that happens. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 11:51:43 -0500 John Reames wrote: > What is the area under a singular point under a curve? (Isn't the area > under a point effectively zero?) No, it's identically zero. > If no one can be disadvantaged relative to others, can you even have a > concept such as "excellence"? No. Truth by its nature must be exclusive, else there would be no falsehood. And if there is not falsehood, there can be no truth. Ravi Zacharias Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
I spoke with a buddy about a roads issue in our part of the world, I sent him this link, and he said at some time in the past they used this tactic to question some study done by a Florida company (for a SC project) that was not a licensed PE in SC, and it bunged things up for some time until the FL outfit got their SC certs, and could re-submit their report with an SC stamp. Not quite the same deal, but when you get lawyers involved, this kind of thing is like blood to a shark. --R On 2/4/2011 1:43 PM, WILTON wrote: I saw the article and immediately noticed that there was no mention of anybody involved in producing the report claiming to be an engineer or getting paid for "engineering work." Therefore, DOT guy (Lacy) has no case. "Concerned" that a citizen or citizen's group produced a report that's "too thorough" or "too professional looking?" What a bunch of BS! Lacy needs to find something productive to do for the nice salary we're paying him. Wilton Goldsboro, NC - Original Message - From: "Allan Streib" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing...NOW training/education") On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 07:17 -0500, "John Reames" wrote: That is one bone I have to pick with our schools system(s); they do not promote, foster, or encourage those that attend to acquire the skill of teaching themselves; it almost seems like it is viewed as undesirable and therefor quashed at a very early stage. Careful about getting too smart without the blessing of the established institutions. You might find yourself in the situation of this guy, who's being charged with "practicing engineering without a license" basically because he wrote a letter to his local DOT challenging a traffic study, and was found to have provided "engineering-level" documentation with his letter, without he himself being a licensed engineer. http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/03/964781/citizen-activist-grates-on-state.html Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
I saw the article and immediately noticed that there was no mention of anybody involved in producing the report claiming to be an engineer or getting paid for "engineering work." Therefore, DOT guy (Lacy) has no case. "Concerned" that a citizen or citizen's group produced a report that's "too thorough" or "too professional looking?" What a bunch of BS! Lacy needs to find something productive to do for the nice salary we're paying him. Wilton Goldsboro, NC - Original Message - From: "Allan Streib" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing...NOW training/education") On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 07:17 -0500, "John Reames" wrote: That is one bone I have to pick with our schools system(s); they do not promote, foster, or encourage those that attend to acquire the skill of teaching themselves; it almost seems like it is viewed as undesirable and therefor quashed at a very early stage. Careful about getting too smart without the blessing of the established institutions. You might find yourself in the situation of this guy, who's being charged with "practicing engineering without a license" basically because he wrote a letter to his local DOT challenging a traffic study, and was found to have provided "engineering-level" documentation with his letter, without he himself being a licensed engineer. http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/03/964781/citizen-activist-grates-on-state.html Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
Yeah, I read about that; isn't one fundamental flaw in the argument that the guy not only did not claim to be an engineer, but that the report itself stated that it was prepared by the citizens? If that prosecution holds any water, then using your own judgment on how to deal with a cut, scrape, rash, fever, etc should also be illegal, as you would therefore be practicing medicine without a license... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Feb 4, 2011, at 9:26, "Allan Streib" wrote: > On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 07:17 -0500, "John Reames" wrote: > >> That is one bone I have to pick with our schools system(s); they do not >> promote, foster, or encourage those that attend to acquire the skill of >> teaching themselves; it almost seems like it is viewed as undesirable and >> therefor quashed at a very early stage. > > Careful about getting too smart without the blessing of the established > institutions. You might find yourself in the situation of this guy, who's > being charged with "practicing engineering without a license" basically > because he wrote a letter to his local DOT challenging a traffic study, and > was found to have provided "engineering-level" documentation with his letter, > without he himself being a licensed engineer. > > http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/03/964781/citizen-activist-grates-on-state.html > > Allan > -- > 1983 300D > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
Instead of disagreeing with you, I will instead wonder what McCarthy would think of the idea of everyone being treated as if they were an interchangeable little cog in a big machine. If you look far enough down that road, you can probably see that "sanitation engineers" would had salaries that are the same as neurosurgeons, since that would give the neurosurgeons an undemocratic advantage. Likewise, ownership of real property allows groups of like people to cluster together, resulting in unequal cultural and social experiences between different groups. Wasn't the marketing phrase something like "America, Land of Opportunity"? Disallowing, preventing, or frustrating the ability to excel with hard work seems the antithesis of that. History shows that everyone has different skill levels in different areas; where would we be if the strongest of Thoreau's skills were held to even some "average" level, or perhaps if Tesla, Einstein, Watson and Crick, Morse, (William) Hammon, Salk, Goddard, Faulkner, or any of thousands of others were "averaged" Correct me if I am wrong, but "normal" is sometimes used in lieu of "arithmetic mean" (AKA average). This is a point that lies on a curve; the curve is to represent some quantitative measurement of a population. What is the area under a singular point under a curve? (Isn't the area under a point effectively zero?) Doesn't this mean that it is in fact aberrant to be exactly average? If we extend average to mean a range of "acceptable" values that includes the arithmetical mean, then don't we get back to some people being disadvantaged relative to others? Yet it seems like "excellence" is spoken of... If no one can be disadvantaged relative to others, can you even have a concept such as "excellence"? Isn't excellence related to "exceeding" or getting "ahead" of others, who might then be considered to be disadvantaged? I don't hold any views, however I do have some questions (such as above) that do not seem to have official answers. This is why I do not think that this will fail, but I do wonder what I am missing that will make this thing work... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Feb 4, 2011, at 7:28, Mitch Haley wrote: > John Reames wrote: >> That is one bone I have to pick with our schools system(s); they do not >> promote, foster, or encourage those that attend to acquire the skill of >> teaching themselves; it almost seems like it is viewed as undesirable and >> therefor quashed at a very early stage. > > We're off the topic for this list, but it seems that it's considered > democratic to make sure that no student gains an unfair advantage by knowing > more than the dumbest kid can absorb. Catchphrases like 'no child left > behind' are thrown around, but the actual system seems more like 'no child > gets ahead'. > > Mitch > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 07:17 -0500, "John Reames" wrote: > That is one bone I have to pick with our schools system(s); they do not > promote, foster, or encourage those that attend to acquire the skill of > teaching themselves; it almost seems like it is viewed as undesirable and > therefor quashed at a very early stage. Careful about getting too smart without the blessing of the established institutions. You might find yourself in the situation of this guy, who's being charged with "practicing engineering without a license" basically because he wrote a letter to his local DOT challenging a traffic study, and was found to have provided "engineering-level" documentation with his letter, without he himself being a licensed engineer. http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/03/964781/citizen-activist-grates-on-state.html Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
John Reames wrote: That is one bone I have to pick with our schools system(s); they do not promote, foster, or encourage those that attend to acquire the skill of teaching themselves; it almost seems like it is viewed as undesirable and therefor quashed at a very early stage. We're off the topic for this list, but it seems that it's considered democratic to make sure that no student gains an unfair advantage by knowing more than the dumbest kid can absorb. Catchphrases like 'no child left behind' are thrown around, but the actual system seems more like 'no child gets ahead'. Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT Rant (was "F-16 Dead-Stick Landing.......NOW training/education")
That is one bone I have to pick with our schools system(s); they do not promote, foster, or encourage those that attend to acquire the skill of teaching themselves; it almost seems like it is viewed as undesirable and therefor quashed at a very early stage. But then the true understanding that follows questions is too resource intensive when rote memorization and a firm pedagogical style are sufficient to ensure that most students can pass the tests... Research, exploration, experimentation, and questions are good things IMO. The schools system(s) don't seem to know how to deal with those that do teach themselves; my son is "learning how to write the numbers from 1 to 5" in school, whereas he has been asking his grandmother to buy him more (arithmetic) workbooks for home. I have half a notion that a Jetsons-like future MIGHT be possible if kids thought teaching themselves was fun and we could feed the resulting (voracious) appetite (for knowledge) at whatever pace worked for them. I'm not advocating making kids spend all their time learning; I am a proponent of letting kids "be bored" by "unstructured playtime"... I believe that they naturally want to explore the world around them. Of course, we can always "cheat" by asking them questions that they can figure out on their own by research and experimentation, be they physical or gedanken experiments. Whatever happened to kids learning to read and then choosing to read a dictionary or an encyclopedia? (or books on art, science, etc, or sitting and listening to music?) Can we complain about what kids learn when they aren't being guided or taught? -j. (Dad of a 4.5 yr old who has asked "hard" questions such as "What is inside a bubble" or "Why is fire hot?"; I hope he continues to do so!) BTW, in these days of "On Demand(tm)" TV, it must seem strange for a kid to shut the TV off and go read or do something interactive. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Feb 3, 2011, at 21:44, Rich Thomas wrote: > I never felt that I was "educated" in my college years getting a BS and MS in > engineering. Part of that (realistically, a fairly small part) was my fault, > but I did not know any better. My "education" consisted more of being taught > stuff, and learning stuff I was taught, than in actually being asked hard > questions and then having to go off and figure it out, with guidance from a > prof. I actually did very well at that. Then I went to MIT. About 3 weeks > into the first semester I had an "Oh S???" moment when I realized I knew a > lot of stuff but had no idea how to use it,and really did not know how to > learn on my own. I had this epiphany that it was now up to me to teach > myself, using various resources available (profs, fellow students, the > library, etc, books, etc.). I actually had to work at it, and it was hard > and not very pleasant, mostly. This was apparently the general mode of the > place, very different from where I had been. I did recall that one of my > favorite profs in engineering school had been BS/MS/ScD at MIT, and at that > point I also realized I should have paid more attention to the guy and used > him more. I survived the year or so, and it was the worst best thing I have > ever done. > > So to this day I continue to educate myself about various things, even from > Chairman Mao's Little Red Book... > > --R > > On 2/3/2011 8:51 PM, Mountain Man wrote: >> --R wrote: >>> Never really did >>> much aerospace-type work... >> Interesting. >> Like I said - my first boss had aeronautics from ND but PhD in civil. >> Ya kinda wonder how many in aeronautics education make a living in >> that. Aeronautics offers a nice cache in feel good way... but perhaps >> is useless except for a very few number of desk farm wannabe types. >> >> I'm glad you have had the opportunity to buffalo us here at mbz... >> What's the line? - if you can't ...fib... them with your ...fib..., >> dazzle them with your ??? >> mao >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
