Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes
The main water shutoff valve in my basement is a ball valve (PVC) and it does 
leak if it's in any position other than fully open or fully closed.

Replacing it would mean shutting off the water at the meter, so I have not 
bothered with it. I just bring a towel with me if I ever need to shut off the 
water.

Allan

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
> I don't seem able to find decent ball valves anymore. I find that after 
> a while, if they are opened and closed, they leak slightly. I have gone 
> back to using the old style valves with the rubber (plastic?) sealing 
> washer that can be replaced.
> 
> Randy
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes
I don't seem able to find decent ball valves anymore. I find that after 
a while, if they are opened and closed, they leak slightly. I have gone 
back to using the old style valves with the rubber (plastic?) sealing 
washer that can be replaced.


Randy


On 12/10/2021 2:51 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:

Any time I replace a water heater, a set of copper fittings along with a ball 
valve replace the cheap plastic drain valve the manufacturer supplied.

It gets flushed annually (or more) and by using a full flow ball valve a lot of 
the cruft gets flushed out easily - and quickly!

-D



On Oct 12, 2021, at 12:23 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes  
wrote:

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, at 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:

Also, if someone "tests" the P-T safety valve by manually "burping" it, there 
is a chance of suspended solids getting stuck on the valve's sealing surfaces (causing a dripping 
leak).

Yep, BTDT. I only suggested it as it's already leaking, so not really anything 
to lose.

Same goes for the drain valve at the bottom of the tank. I've seen advice to 
open that every month or so to flush out any sediment but often you won't be 
able to fully close it again. They are typically very cheap plastic valves, so 
if you plan to do that, best to replace the valve with a good one before you 
fill the water heater.

Allan
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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread dan penoff.com via Mercedes
Any time I replace a water heater, a set of copper fittings along with a ball 
valve replace the cheap plastic drain valve the manufacturer supplied.

It gets flushed annually (or more) and by using a full flow ball valve a lot of 
the cruft gets flushed out easily - and quickly!

-D


> On Oct 12, 2021, at 12:23 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, at 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
>> Also, if someone "tests" the P-T safety valve by manually "burping" it, 
>> there is a chance of suspended solids getting stuck on the valve's sealing 
>> surfaces (causing a dripping leak).
> 
> Yep, BTDT. I only suggested it as it's already leaking, so not really 
> anything to lose.
> 
> Same goes for the drain valve at the bottom of the tank. I've seen advice to 
> open that every month or so to flush out any sediment but often you won't be 
> able to fully close it again. They are typically very cheap plastic valves, 
> so if you plan to do that, best to replace the valve with a good one before 
> you fill the water heater.
> 
> Allan
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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes
On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, at 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
> Also, if someone "tests" the P-T safety valve by manually "burping" it, there 
> is a chance of suspended solids getting stuck on the valve's sealing surfaces 
> (causing a dripping leak).

Yep, BTDT. I only suggested it as it's already leaking, so not really anything 
to lose.

Same goes for the drain valve at the bottom of the tank. I've seen advice to 
open that every month or so to flush out any sediment but often you won't be 
able to fully close it again. They are typically very cheap plastic valves, so 
if you plan to do that, best to replace the valve with a good one before you 
fill the water heater.

Allan
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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
These tanks generally have two heater elements: upper and lower.  The lower 
element has a simple thermostat (disk type) that turns on and off near the set 
point, with some hysteresis. The upper thermostat is more complex; when off 
(water warm enough) it routes power to the lower thermostat.  When on (water at 
top too cool) power is removed from the lower element and the upper element is 
powered.  The thermostats can be replaced without removing the heater elements 
or braining the tank.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 11:04 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

Seems unlikely to me that the original one and a replacement one would fail 
that quick. Old water heater was there 15 years and never had a valve fail. I 
wonder if it’s not shutting off when it should and heats the water too hot.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 9:42 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank...
> 
> Makes me think something is wrong with the Chinese (?) factory that 
> made a whole bad batch of POS pressure valves...
> 
> -- Jim
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
Also, if someone "tests" the P-T safety valve by manually "burping" it, there 
is a chance of suspended solids getting stuck on the valve's sealing surfaces 
(causing a dripping leak).
On the plus side, these valves are (relatively) cheap and easy to replace.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 11:31 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

From what was described to me it sounds like a steady stream, but not sure yet. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 10:22 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> IMO if the water is getting hot enough to open the relief valve the tenant 
> would notice it, being scalded in the shower or washing dishes.
> 
> Is it a slow trickle leak from the valve or is it periodically opening and 
> letting out a blast of hot water?
> 
> If a slow leak, might try operating the valve manually with the lever a few 
> times, if is a bit of debris from the manufacturing or installation that's 
> preventing it from sealing up properly that might flush it out.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, at 11:04 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Seems unlikely to me that the original one and a replacement one would fail 
>> that quick. Old water heater was there 15 years and never had a valve fail. 
>> I wonder if it’s not shutting off when it should and heats the water too hot.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Oct 12, 2021, at 9:42 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank...
>>> 
>>> Makes me think something is wrong with the Chinese (?) factory that 
>>> made a whole bad batch of POS pressure valves...
>>> 
>>> -- Jim
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Run a google search on the mfr. and model # to see if there are any recalls
or lemon alerts.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 12:03 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> What Grant and Scott said ...
>
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:31 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > From what was described to me it sounds like a steady stream, but not
> sure
> > yet.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Oct 12, 2021, at 10:22 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > IMO if the water is getting hot enough to open the relief valve the
> > tenant would notice it, being scalded in the shower or washing dishes.
> > >
> > > Is it a slow trickle leak from the valve or is it periodically opening
> > and letting out a blast of hot water?
> > >
> > > If a slow leak, might try operating the valve manually with the lever a
> > few times, if is a bit of debris from the manufacturing or installation
> > that's preventing it from sealing up properly that might flush it out.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, at 11:04 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> > >> Seems unlikely to me that the original one and a replacement one would
> > fail that quick. Old water heater was there 15 years and never had a
> valve
> > fail. I wonder if it’s not shutting off when it should and heats the
> water
> > too hot.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> >  On Oct 12, 2021, at 9:42 AM, Jim Cathey 
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> 
> > 
> >  Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank...
> > >>>
> > >>> Makes me think something is wrong with the Chinese (?) factory that
> > made a
> > >>> whole bad batch of POS pressure valves...
> > >>>
> > >>> -- Jim
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> > >>
> > >>
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> > >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
What Grant and Scott said ...

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:31 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> From what was described to me it sounds like a steady stream, but not sure
> yet.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 12, 2021, at 10:22 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > IMO if the water is getting hot enough to open the relief valve the
> tenant would notice it, being scalded in the shower or washing dishes.
> >
> > Is it a slow trickle leak from the valve or is it periodically opening
> and letting out a blast of hot water?
> >
> > If a slow leak, might try operating the valve manually with the lever a
> few times, if is a bit of debris from the manufacturing or installation
> that's preventing it from sealing up properly that might flush it out.
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, at 11:04 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> >> Seems unlikely to me that the original one and a replacement one would
> fail that quick. Old water heater was there 15 years and never had a valve
> fail. I wonder if it’s not shutting off when it should and heats the water
> too hot.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
>  On Oct 12, 2021, at 9:42 AM, Jim Cathey 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 
> 
>  Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank...
> >>>
> >>> Makes me think something is wrong with the Chinese (?) factory that
> made a
> >>> whole bad batch of POS pressure valves...
> >>>
> >>> -- Jim
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
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> >
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> >
>
>
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-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
From what was described to me it sounds like a steady stream, but not sure yet. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 10:22 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> IMO if the water is getting hot enough to open the relief valve the tenant 
> would notice it, being scalded in the shower or washing dishes.
> 
> Is it a slow trickle leak from the valve or is it periodically opening and 
> letting out a blast of hot water?
> 
> If a slow leak, might try operating the valve manually with the lever a few 
> times, if is a bit of debris from the manufacturing or installation that's 
> preventing it from sealing up properly that might flush it out.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, at 11:04 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Seems unlikely to me that the original one and a replacement one would fail 
>> that quick. Old water heater was there 15 years and never had a valve fail. 
>> I wonder if it’s not shutting off when it should and heats the water too hot.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Oct 12, 2021, at 9:42 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 
 Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank...
>>> 
>>> Makes me think something is wrong with the Chinese (?) factory that made a
>>> whole bad batch of POS pressure valves...
>>> 
>>> -- Jim
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes
IMO if the water is getting hot enough to open the relief valve the tenant 
would notice it, being scalded in the shower or washing dishes.

Is it a slow trickle leak from the valve or is it periodically opening and 
letting out a blast of hot water?

If a slow leak, might try operating the valve manually with the lever a few 
times, if is a bit of debris from the manufacturing or installation that's 
preventing it from sealing up properly that might flush it out.



On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, at 11:04 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> Seems unlikely to me that the original one and a replacement one would fail 
> that quick. Old water heater was there 15 years and never had a valve fail. I 
> wonder if it’s not shutting off when it should and heats the water too hot.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Oct 12, 2021, at 9:42 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >> 
> >> Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank...
> > 
> > Makes me think something is wrong with the Chinese (?) factory that made a
> > whole bad batch of POS pressure valves...
> > 
> > -- Jim
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
That’s what I am thinking 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 9:53 AM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> It makes me think there is a temp control issue with that heater.
> Take your laser digital temp device [everyone has one now, right?] and take
> the actual water temp of the water coming out at the leak I'll bet you
> have a steam heater instead of a water heater and the temp control is
> having random failure which overheats the water enough to blow the valve
> open...
> The relief valve is built into the heater to give a relief point before the
> steam pressure blows the faucets off the walls or breaks pipes...
> etc...
> Faulty water heater... warranty time for the whole heater, not just the
> relief valve
> Just MHO
> 
> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 7:44 AM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>>> Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank...
>> 
>> Makes me think something is wrong with the Chinese (?) factory that made a
>> whole bad batch of POS pressure valves...
>> 
>> -- Jim
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes
Or does the renter have a mischievous (aka asshole) kid with a torch...
Maybe like that asshat arsonist kid here a few years ago, that was mad
that his parents moved here, and was taking it out on the community.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Seems unlikely to me that the original one and a replacement one would fail 
that quick. Old water heater was there 15 years and never had a valve fail. I 
wonder if it’s not shutting off when it should and heats the water too hot.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 9:42 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank...
> 
> Makes me think something is wrong with the Chinese (?) factory that made a
> whole bad batch of POS pressure valves...
> 
> -- Jim
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread mitch--- via Mercedes

On 2021-10-12 10:41, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:

Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank...


Makes me think something is wrong with the Chinese (?) factory that 
made a

whole bad batch of POS pressure valves...


It's a Temperature and Pressure Valve, right?
What if the thermostat sticks, or doesn't sense tank temperature because 
there's insulation caught behind it?


https://www.corroprotec.com/blog/water-heater-pressure-relief-valve/

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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
It makes me think there is a temp control issue with that heater.
Take your laser digital temp device [everyone has one now, right?] and take
the actual water temp of the water coming out at the leak I'll bet you
have a steam heater instead of a water heater and the temp control is
having random failure which overheats the water enough to blow the valve
open...
The relief valve is built into the heater to give a relief point before the
steam pressure blows the faucets off the walls or breaks pipes...
etc...
Faulty water heater... warranty time for the whole heater, not just the
relief valve
Just MHO

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 7:44 AM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> > Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank...
>
> Makes me think something is wrong with the Chinese (?) factory that made a
> whole bad batch of POS pressure valves...
>
> -- Jim
>
>
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-12 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes
> Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank...

Makes me think something is wrong with the Chinese (?) factory that made a
whole bad batch of POS pressure valves...

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-11 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
Maybe one of the thermostats sticks?

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 9:24 PM
To: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
Subject: [MBZ] OT water heaters

At the rental, in 2019 we replaced the hot water tank with a unit from Lowes.  
After a few months the renter reported water leak, it was basically the 
pressure valve was open and venting.  Since it had been leaking we had to get a 
plumber out to replace the valve out of pocket rather than turning it in to 
warranty company.  Of course neither Lowes or the manufacturer wanted to take 
responsibility.  They said we could ship them the valve and they would 
determine if it was covered under warranty.  In other words, you are SOL.  This 
was earlier this year. Today, same damn problem.  Water tank is set on low, 
with the previous renter I think he may have had it turned up too high, but 
even on max I sure don't think it would cause an overpressure situation.  This 
time I am turning it into the warranty people.  What the heck could cause 2 
valves to fail?  I have never seen one fail before but I suppose it is 
possible.  Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank causing it 
to overpressure, like maybe the heat is not shutting off like it should and it 
is running all the time.


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[MBZ] OT water heaters

2021-10-11 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
At the rental, in 2019 we replaced the hot water tank with a unit from 
Lowes.  After a few months the renter reported water leak, it was 
basically the pressure valve was open and venting.  Since it had been 
leaking we had to get a plumber out to replace the valve out of pocket 
rather than turning it in to warranty company.  Of course neither Lowes 
or the manufacturer wanted to take responsibility.  They said we could 
ship them the valve and they would determine if it was covered under 
warranty.  In other words, you are SOL.  This was earlier this year.  
Today, same damn problem.  Water tank is set on low, with the previous 
renter I think he may have had it turned up too high, but even on max I 
sure don't think it would cause an overpressure situation.  This time I 
am turning it into the warranty people.  What the heck could cause 2 
valves to fail?  I have never seen one fail before but I suppose it is 
possible.  Makes me think something is actually wrong with the tank 
causing it to overpressure, like maybe the heat is not shutting off like 
it should and it is running all the time.



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