Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
The only time I've ever used the parking brake on a hillstop was my driving test... One foot on the brake, the other on the clutch. Release clutch until the engine starts to labor, release brake, quick dance to the throttle. In the case of a 240D MASH throttle to floor, continue releasing clutch -Curt Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:05:28 -0700 From: Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:27:35 +1030 Hendrik Fay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hendrik who likes the RHD 123 dash mounted hand brake and wonders how you do a smooth hill start in a manual car with a foot operated park brake (eg. the 124's) Make sure the foot operated brake is well set. Put transmission in neutral. Depress clutch. Start engine and put transmission in gear. Let out clutch and feed throttle to keep engine RPMs up. Feel car lift off parking brake and start to move forward. Pull parking (emergency) brake release knob and drive off smoothly.\ Works every time. Craig - Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
On Nov 26, 2007 3:21 PM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for the suggestion to leave the lever in neutral so that the lever wouldn't get stuck in 'P' if the parking brake didn't hold on a hill, would you rather return to your car to find tension on the parking pawl, or perhaps it's better to find your car not where you left it if the p-brake doesn't hold? The 'P' on the tranny is there for redundancy in case the p-brake fails. Using it *except* when on a hill where it might be useful is silly. Ditto. Like the street signs in San Francisco say, CURB WHEELS - SET CAR IN GEAR! Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo et al. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
I have always been puzzelled how a car can continiously by held in position by the compression of 1 cylinder by leaving it in gear It's not compression, really. Just plain old friction. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
Peter: I don't have any knowledge to add, but I want to celebrate someone else's willingness to ask such an open question without flinching at the inevitable scorn from the seasoned. Brian On 11/25/07, Peter Merle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have always been puzzelled how a car can continiously by held in position by the compression of 1 cylinder by leaving it in gear ( manual tranny ) . One would think that eventually ( after a few seconds/minutes ) the rings will leak air and the car would then lurch fwd and then start a runway. This does not seem to happen though. Any thoughts on the physics involved? PEter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
I saw a F250 Powerstroke go for a walk once on a lightly sloped parking lot. We came out of the store, and it was about six feet farther back than we left it. I wasn't driving, but I'm pretty sure it could not have been in creeper or reverse. The owner's driveway is steeper than that parking lot and as far as I know it's never done that at home. After my Horizon hit about 180,000 miles it would do that in reverse at the boat ramp, about one compression stroke every 20 seconds. Before the cylinders started leaking down the engine held the car and the boat on that ramp just fine. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
So you're gonna test this by removing the spark plugs and parking on the side of a hill? Let us know how you got on.once you're out of hospital..and got the insurance monkeys off your back.and the missus lets you back in the house if you promise to behave.well she might ban you from this list for talking you into doing dumb things. Jim Cathey wrote: I have always been puzzelled how a car can continiously by held in position by the compression of 1 cylinder by leaving it in gear It's not compression, really. Just plain old friction. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
I've had the same thing happen in an old air-cooled Beetle. Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I saw a F250 Powerstroke go for a walk once on a lightly sloped parking lot. We came out of the store, and it was about six feet farther back than we left it. I wasn't driving, but I'm pretty sure it could not have been in creeper or reverse. The owner's driveway is steeper than that parking lot and as far as I know it's never done that at home. After my Horizon hit about 180,000 miles it would do that in reverse at the boat ramp, about one compression stroke every 20 seconds. Before the cylinders started leaking down the engine held the car and the boat on that ramp just fine. Mitch. -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
If you were parked on a steep enough hill it will start to roll back a little. When I first started driving before I got my first car I drove my dads old 76 Ford F100 with a 3 on the tree. On a steep hill it would roll back slightly. We are not talking sudden rolling, it would just start to creep back. Peter Merle wrote: I have always been puzzelled how a car can continiously by held in position by the compression of 1 cylinder by leaving it in gear ( manual tranny ) . One would think that eventually ( after a few seconds/minutes ) the rings will leak air and the car would then lurch fwd and then start a runway. This does not seem to happen though. Any thoughts on the physics involved? PEter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
Isn't there also pressure against a pin/stop of some sort? I was always taught to use park with e-brake. And, when on a hill/slope, e-brake and neutral with no park. Bob R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 7:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear If you were parked on a steep enough hill it will start to roll back a little. When I first started driving before I got my first car I drove my dads old 76 Ford F100 with a 3 on the tree. On a steep hill it would roll back slightly. We are not talking sudden rolling, it would just start to creep back. Peter Merle wrote: I have always been puzzelled how a car can continiously by held in position by the compression of 1 cylinder by leaving it in gear ( manual tranny ) . One would think that eventually ( after a few seconds/minutes ) the rings will leak air and the car would then lurch fwd and then start a runway. This does not seem to happen though. Any thoughts on the physics involved? PEter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
Robert Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't there also pressure against a pin/stop of some sort? I was always taught to use park with e-brake. And, when on a hill/slope, e-brake and neutral with no park. In my 300D when I park, I set the parking brake while holding the car with the foot brake, before putting the transmission in park. I feel that this keeps stress off the transmission, especially on any kind of slope. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
That's exactly what the fella from whom I contracted the MB bug from in 1974 taught me to do. Not really sure if it actually makes a transmission last longer...but it can't hurt, I suppose. Bob R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan Streib Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 8:05 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear Robert Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't there also pressure against a pin/stop of some sort? I was always taught to use park with e-brake. And, when on a hill/slope, e-brake and neutral with no park. In my 300D when I park, I set the parking brake while holding the car with the foot brake, before putting the transmission in park. I feel that this keeps stress off the transmission, especially on any kind of slope. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
I saw something like that in Akron about 35 years ago on a sloped parking lot. About 15 cars slid out of their spaces when the owners parked warm tires on an iced lot. Interesting to drive through. I don't think compression leak-down had anything to do with that one. BillR Jacksonville FL I saw a F250 Powerstroke go for a walk once on a lightly sloped parking lot. We came out of the store, and it was about six feet farther back than we left it. I wasn't driving, but I'm pretty sure it could not have been in creeper or reverse. The owner's driveway is steeper than that parking lot and as far as I know it's never done that at home. After my Horizon hit about 180,000 miles it would do that in reverse at the boat ramp, about one compression stroke every 20 seconds. Before the cylinders started leaking down the engine held the car and the boat on that ramp just fine. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
test this by removing the spark plugs and parking on the side of a hill? Spork plags? What're those? :-) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
That happens all the time here in the mountains. Four brakes engaged on iced parking lot might hold the vehicle but just the drive wheels in park, you shut the car door and the car slides away like a hockey puck. The owner's manual on the 300D gives emergency instructions on how to jump start the car if necessary by coasting it downgrade. This can be done with the automatic transmission in the Benz not just manual trans. 11/26/07 10:30 AM, Bill Ringgold at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I saw something like that in Akron about 35 years ago on a sloped parking lot. About 15 cars slid out of their spaces when the owners parked warm tires on an iced lot. Interesting to drive through. I don't think compression leak-down had anything to do with that one. BillR Jacksonville FL I saw a F250 Powerstroke go for a walk once on a lightly sloped parking lot. We came out of the store, and it was about six feet farther back than we left it. I wasn't driving, but I'm pretty sure it could not have been in creeper or reverse. The owner's driveway is steeper than that parking lot and as far as I know it's never done that at home. After my Horizon hit about 180,000 miles it would do that in reverse at the boat ramp, about one compression stroke every 20 seconds. Before the cylinders started leaking down the engine held the car and the boat on that ramp just fine. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
I've never understood parking in neutral. What if the ebrake fails? I've had several cars (mostly American) where the ebrake didn't work well at all... The ebrake in my 190D is acceptable but not terrific. I use it only when I start the car on frosty mornings and then hop out to clear the windows. -Curt Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 08:02:49 -0700 From: Robert Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Isn't there also pressure against a pin/stop of some sort? I was always taught to use park with e-brake. And, when on a hill/slope, e-brake and neutral with no park. Bob R. - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
Auto boxes have a parking engagement device, however I STRONGLY recommend that everyone get in the habit of using the hand brake, even on flat ground. My Mum had an experience recently whereby the car chased her because she didn't put the car in P properly and either she did not pull on the hand brake hard enough (easy to do on a RHD 201 because the hand brake is close to the passenger seat and you sort of have to lean over to pull it on hard) or did not use it at all. Luckily the car missed her by a couple of feet but it could have been very nasty. I recommend using P on autos all the time, engage hand brake and then place in P, if the hand brake is working properly the vehicles weight should not rest against the internal gearbox stop but that internal stop is a fail safe in case your hand brake lets go for whatever reason. There is absolutely no reason not to place the auto in P, they are designed to do this. It is things like this 'when on a hill/slope, e-brake and neutral with no park' stuff that makes me a great believer in making new drivers take professional lessons so they don't pick up bad habits from 'experienced' drivers. Pro driving instructors are best placed to teach the ins and outs of motoring. Hendrik who likes the RHD 123 dash mounted hand brake and wonders how you do a smooth hill start in a manual car with a foot operated park brake (eg. the 124's) Robert Rentfro wrote: Isn't there also pressure against a pin/stop of some sort? I was always taught to use park with e-brake. And, when on a hill/slope, e-brake and neutral with no park. Bob R. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
Hendrik Fay wrote: Auto boxes have a parking engagement device, however I STRONGLY recommend that everyone get in the habit of using the hand brake, even on flat ground. My employer at the Saab shop lost a parking pawl about 20 years ago. He left the car in the handicap spot closest to the store, flat parking lot, lever in 'P', handbrake off. A delivery truck backed into his car, no obvious bumper damage, but the Borg-Warner box didn't like it at all. Saab parking brakes in that era (Girling front disk parking/service brakes) could lock the front wheels with ease. If he'd set the brake, there's no way the tranny would have been damaged. As for the suggestion to leave the lever in neutral so that the lever wouldn't get stuck in 'P' if the parking brake didn't hold on a hill, would you rather return to your car to find tension on the parking pawl, or perhaps it's better to find your car not where you left it if the p-brake doesn't hold? The 'P' on the tranny is there for redundancy in case the p-brake fails. Using it *except* when on a hill where it might be useful is silly. Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:27:35 +1030 Hendrik Fay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hendrik who likes the RHD 123 dash mounted hand brake and wonders how you do a smooth hill start in a manual car with a foot operated park brake (eg. the 124's) Make sure the foot operated brake is well set. Put transmission in neutral. Depress clutch. Start engine and put transmission in gear. Let out clutch and feed throttle to keep engine RPMs up. Feel car lift off parking brake and start to move forward. Pull parking (emergency) brake release knob and drive off smoothly.\ Works every time. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
There appears to still be a lot of confusion even to myself as to how the compression effect holds the car. I'm sure if you remove the spark plugs ( glow plugs for us guys ) the internal friction is not a significant contributor to keep the car stationary on a slope. If compression has an affect why after xxx no of secs/hrs/days does the vehicle not crank over to the next compression cycle? It means eventually no matter how new the engine is air will leak past the rings/valves. BTW does a diesel parked hold it better on a slope that a gasser? PEter -Original Message- From: Craig McCluskey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 27 November 2007 07:05 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:27:35 +1030 Hendrik Fay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hendrik who likes the RHD 123 dash mounted hand brake and wonders how you do a smooth hill start in a manual car with a foot operated park brake (eg. the 124's) Make sure the foot operated brake is well set. Put transmission in neutral. Depress clutch. Start engine and put transmission in gear. Let out clutch and feed throttle to keep engine RPMs up. Feel car lift off parking brake and start to move forward. Pull parking (emergency) brake release knob and drive off smoothly.\ Works every time. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Parking car in gear
I have always been puzzelled how a car can continiously by held in position by the compression of 1 cylinder by leaving it in gear ( manual tranny ) . One would think that eventually ( after a few seconds/minutes ) the rings will leak air and the car would then lurch fwd and then start a runway. This does not seem to happen though. Any thoughts on the physics involved? PEter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Parking car in gear
I'll tell you: I don't know. - Tevye the milkman in Fiddler on the Roof. When one cylinder leaks down and the crankshaft turns, another comes up on the compression stroke. Or so it seems to me. The attempt to move the car with the transmission in any gear requires turning the engine faster than it might crank manually. In a lower gear, it really turns faster. This I think reduces the tendency of the car to move and self rotate the engine. Sometimes an old engine with weak compression will actually allow a car to move a bit, a herky jerky bit, especially in top gear. Robert [Original Message] From: Peter Merle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: 11/26/2007 5:24:57 AM Subject: Parking car in gear I have always been puzzelled how a car can continiously by held in position by the compression of 1 cylinder by leaving it in gear ( manual tranny ) . One would think that eventually ( after a few seconds/minutes ) the rings will leak air and the car would then lurch fwd and then start a runway. This does not seem to happen though. Any thoughts on the physics involved? PEter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
