Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
I don't have anything *against* electric vehicles per-se, I just find annoying the rose-colored advocacy that tries to rationalize away the very real limitations they currently have. I'll wait and see how they hold up and what kind of prices they command on the used market in 5 or 10 years. I could justify having a 200 mile or even somewhat less range on a cheap commuter car. I would *not* consider that acceptable on a $50K+ new car, even if I had the cash to spend. Meanwhile we (as in government) are going to need to figure out a way to replace all the tax revenue that will be lost on traditional fuel sales. Your cheap recharge won't stay that way once a significant number of people start doing it. And simple economics dictates that the additional demand for electricity should lead to higher rates, but since utilities are government-regulated and have limits on what they can charge, we will instead get shortages. Speaking of utilities, they are going to have to figure out how to handle an additional 50--100KWh daily usage per house that has a charging station. This will probably double the electrical usage at a typical household. And many houses will have more than one car. A few people charging cars on a standard residential neighborhood circuit might not be an issue, but if EVERYONE (or even a significant number of people) are charging two cars at home every night, utilities will need to build up infrastructure and capacity. This will translate to even higher electric rates to fund the expansion. Kevin Kraly kr...@comcast.net writes: Tesla and Toyota are colaborating on a Rav4 EV which I actually got to see and ride in as well since my brother-in-llaw works for Toyota. Electric vehicles would suit our family driving habits very well. It wouldn't tow the boat or travel trailer, so we would have to have a fuel burner in the fleet for that, the '07 Dodge Diesel. I have a feeling that the price is going to scare me off, and the people hauler Crypsler Around Town Country MV is nearly paid off with only 33Kmi on it. Having no payment would be nice! Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon -Original Message- From: Tim C Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 5:37 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight On Feb 9, 2012 8:15 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: What is the plan? Drive 300miles and then charge it up for a few hours and go again? I am thinking this is aimed at the upmarket commuter people? Yeah they really only make sense for people with a lot of discretionary cash who can afford to have a car they only drive locally. I rarely drive the 300D outside a 50-mile radius, and don't think I've ever broken 100 miles in 24 hours. I don't really drive the SDL outside the area much more than that, and I could certainly avoid it entirely. Meanwhile I wouldn't mind the travel expense reduction and increased maintenance intervals. I would mind having another car payment though so I think I'll just have to survive in diesel-motivated luxury instead. :) Best, -Tim doesn't do that much work on the diesels, though it's not because they don't want it... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
Just one point for the save the earth go green gang. Tesla ad states 0 emissions Where does the electricity come from? If it's a coal fired generating station [most electricity is from one] or a nuclear generating station [there are some big ones] or from a hydro plant [also some big ones] Each type has it's own set of HUGE environmental impact and or polution issues, all increased by the Tesla's demand for more power''. The math doesn't work when you actually use all the parts of the puzzle and don't green gloss over them with feel good, save the environment, spend government subsidy money, mentality. If you are that truly concerned about saving the earth ride a bike and eat beans, never work or live more than walking distance from your job. Ohh, wait, now you don't have one because the consumer society you want to save the earth from created that job you needed to go to... oops.. better re work the math again... Gotta run now,, late for my peyote drum circle. Grant... On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:58 AM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: I don't have anything *against* electric vehicles per-se, I just find annoying the rose-colored advocacy that tries to rationalize away the very real limitations they currently have. I'll wait and see how they hold up and what kind of prices they command on the used market in 5 or 10 years. I could justify having a 200 mile or even somewhat less range on a cheap commuter car. I would *not* consider that acceptable on a $50K+ new car, even if I had the cash to spend. Meanwhile we (as in government) are going to need to figure out a way to replace all the tax revenue that will be lost on traditional fuel sales. Your cheap recharge won't stay that way once a significant number of people start doing it. And simple economics dictates that the additional demand for electricity should lead to higher rates, but since utilities are government-regulated and have limits on what they can charge, we will instead get shortages. Speaking of utilities, they are going to have to figure out how to handle an additional 50--100KWh daily usage per house that has a charging station. This will probably double the electrical usage at a typical household. And many houses will have more than one car. A few people charging cars on a standard residential neighborhood circuit might not be an issue, but if EVERYONE (or even a significant number of people) are charging two cars at home every night, utilities will need to build up infrastructure and capacity. This will translate to even higher electric rates to fund the expansion. Kevin Kraly kr...@comcast.net writes: Tesla and Toyota are colaborating on a Rav4 EV which I actually got to see and ride in as well since my brother-in-llaw works for Toyota. Electric vehicles would suit our family driving habits very well. It wouldn't tow the boat or travel trailer, so we would have to have a fuel burner in the fleet for that, the '07 Dodge Diesel. I have a feeling that the price is going to scare me off, and the people hauler Crypsler Around Town Country MV is nearly paid off with only 33Kmi on it. Having no payment would be nice! Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon -Original Message- From: Tim C Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 5:37 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight On Feb 9, 2012 8:15 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: What is the plan? Drive 300miles and then charge it up for a few hours and go again? I am thinking this is aimed at the upmarket commuter people? Yeah they really only make sense for people with a lot of discretionary cash who can afford to have a car they only drive locally. I rarely drive the 300D outside a 50-mile radius, and don't think I've ever broken 100 miles in 24 hours. I don't really drive the SDL outside the area much more than that, and I could certainly avoid it entirely. Meanwhile I wouldn't mind the travel expense reduction and increased maintenance intervals. I would mind having another car payment though so I think I'll just have to survive in diesel-motivated luxury instead. :) Best, -Tim doesn't do that much work on the diesels, though it's not because they don't want it... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- 1983 300D 1979
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
The flip side to that 0 emissions argument is we never hear more than tail-pipe emissions, rarely anything about refiner emissions. nbsp;I'm willing to bet that a refiner is o par with power plants Luther KB5QHU Forest Park, IL '87 300SDL (322,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi)nbsp; -- mobile my Palm Pre+ On Feb 10, 2012 7:19 AM, G Mann lt;g2ma...@gmail.comgt; wrote: Just one point for the save the earth go green gang. Tesla ad states 0 emissions Where does the electricity come from? If it's a coal fired generating station [most electricity is from one] or a nuclear generating station [there are some big ones] or from a hydro plant [also some big ones] Each type has it's own set of HUGE environmental impact and or polution issues, all increased by the Tesla's demand for more power''. The math doesn't work when you actually use all the parts of the puzzle and don't green gloss over them with feel good, save the environment, spend government subsidy money, mentality. If you are that truly concerned about saving the earth ride a bike and eat beans, never work or live more than walking distance from your job. Ohh, wait, now you don't have one because the consumer society you want to save the earth from created that job you needed to go to... oops.. better re work the math again... Gotta run now,, late for my peyote drum circle. Grant... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
I read somewhere last week that someone had done the calculations, and electric cars came out emissions neutral relative to dino fueled cars - either MSN autos or consumers reports perhaps. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Luther's Benz benz-n-h...@gulseth.netwrote: The flip side to that 0 emissions argument is we never hear more than tail-pipe emissions, rarely anything about refiner emissions. nbsp;I'm willing to bet that a refiner is o par with power plants Luther KB5QHU Forest Park, IL '87 300SDL (322,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi)nbsp; -- mobile my Palm Pre+ -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
Free electricity?! I may wanta move there; 'been costing me ~ $ .09/kwh! Wilton - Original Message - From: Hans Neureiter diese...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight 300 miles on a charge. In gas that's +/- $40. Electricity is free. (Maybe the light bill goes up some) Yep, wer'e screwed. Did it to our selves. Blame it on Washington. Who sends the idiots there? IRMC! On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Allan Streib wrote: Yeah they really only make sense for people with a lot of discretionary cash who can afford to have a car they only drive locally. I think it's just another toy. My Realtor has a Miata, I forget how many years old he said it is, with 5000 miles on it. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Katy, TX '82 300SD '01 VW New Beetle 1.9L TDI ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
That makes no sense. The only way an electric car could be emissions neutral is if it takes pollution in and cleans the air for normal use just the way plants do. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '87 300SDL (322,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi) On 2/10/2012 9:21 AM, OK Don wrote: I read somewhere last week that someone had done the calculations, and electric cars came out emissions neutral relative to dino fueled cars - either MSN autos or consumers reports perhaps. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Luther's Benzbenz-n-h...@gulseth.netwrote: The flip side to that 0 emissions argument is we never hear more than tail-pipe emissions, rarely anything about refiner emissions.nbsp;I'm willing to bet that a refiner is o par with power plants Luther KB5QHU Forest Park, IL '87 300SDL (322,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi)nbsp; -- mobile my Palm Pre+ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
I think we need wood-burning steam cars, or wood gasmobiles. Carbon neutral and will be good for after the coming collapse. OBTW did you see that Fisker, who is supposedly building some sort of electric car, got over a half billion $ gummint loan and is now in discussions to revise terms of the loan? Even more than Solyndra! And a bunch of EV battery companies have also defaulted on gummint loans? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2rlDcAGiQM at 36sec --R On 2/10/12 11:19 AM, Benz Hogs wrote: That makes no sense. The only way an electric car could be emissions neutral is if it takes pollution in and cleans the air for normal use just the way plants do. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '87 300SDL (322,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi) On 2/10/2012 9:21 AM, OK Don wrote: I read somewhere last week that someone had done the calculations, and electric cars came out emissions neutral relative to dino fueled cars - either MSN autos or consumers reports perhaps. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Luther's Benzbenz-n-h...@gulseth.netwrote: The flip side to that 0 emissions argument is we never hear more than tail-pipe emissions, rarely anything about refiner emissions.nbsp;I'm willing to bet that a refiner is o par with power plants Luther KB5QHU Forest Park, IL '87 300SDL (322,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi)nbsp; -- mobile my Palm Pre+ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
He said relative to dino-fueled I took that to mean that they are about the same, ultimately. Though I did have to read it twice. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012, at 10:19 AM, Benz Hogs wrote: That makes no sense. The only way an electric car could be emissions neutral is if it takes pollution in and cleans the air for normal use just the way plants do. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '87 300SDL (322,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi) On 2/10/2012 9:21 AM, OK Don wrote: I read somewhere last week that someone had done the calculations, and electric cars came out emissions neutral relative to dino fueled cars - either MSN autos or consumers reports perhaps. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Luther's Benzbenz-n- h...@gulseth.netwrote: The flip side to that 0 emissions argument is we never hear more than tail-pipe emissions, rarely anything about refiner emissions.nbsp;I'm willing to bet that a refiner is o par with power plants Luther KB5QHU Forest Park, IL '87 300SDL (322,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi)nbsp; -- mobile my Palm Pre+ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
No, it means that the generation of the electricity produces as much CO2 etc. as a gas car would have. Net change in CO2 and pollution is zero. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote: That makes no sense. The only way an electric car could be emissions neutral is if it takes pollution in and cleans the air for normal use just the way plants do. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '87 300SDL (322,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi) On 2/10/2012 9:21 AM, OK Don wrote: I read somewhere last week that someone had done the calculations, and electric cars came out emissions neutral relative to dino fueled cars - either MSN autos or consumers reports perhaps. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Luther's Benzbenz-n-h...@gulseth.net** wrote: The flip side to that 0 emissions argument is we never hear more than tail-pipe emissions, rarely anything about refiner emissions.nbsp;I'm willing to bet that a refiner is o par with power plants Luther KB5QHU Forest Park, IL '87 300SDL (322,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi)nbsp; -- mobile my Palm Pre+ __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
According to the Wikipedia entry for the Tesla Roadster: Recharging with electricity from the average USA grid [...] yields a full-cycle energy-equivalency of 44.0 mpg. The formula for full-cycle energy-equivalency considers a bunch of upstream factors in the production and transmission of electricity and petroleum-based fuels. So it's decently economical, on par with other small gasoline-powered cars but certainly less than the most efficient diesel-powered cars. Full details http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster#Energy_efficiency Allan On Fri, Feb 10, 2012, at 12:59 PM, OK Don wrote: No, it means that the generation of the electricity produces as much CO2 etc. as a gas car would have. Net change in CO2 and pollution is zero. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote: That makes no sense. The only way an electric car could be emissions neutral is if it takes pollution in and cleans the air for normal use just the way plants do. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '87 300SDL (322,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi) On 2/10/2012 9:21 AM, OK Don wrote: I read somewhere last week that someone had done the calculations, and electric cars came out emissions neutral relative to dino fueled cars - either MSN autos or consumers reports perhaps. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Luther's Benzbenz-n-h...@gulseth.net** wrote: The flip side to that 0 emissions argument is we never hear more than tail-pipe emissions, rarely anything about refiner emissions.nbsp;I'm willing to bet that a refiner is o par with power plants Luther KB5QHU Forest Park, IL '87 300SDL (322,xxx mi) '91 Dodge Ram 150 (290,xxx mi)nbsp; -- mobile my Palm Pre+ __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
Ha. It's a gullwing. http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
You can't compare the Tesla to other normal cars though, how many people road trip in a Ferrari? Thats the market Tesla competes against. It is purely a rich people's toy. Anyway I find it amusing that the most common counter argument is but its range is so limited when most people admit that on a regular basis they rarely need more range... I'd like to see electric cars put more demand on our electrical grid and finally force everybody to take a hard look at an overstressed system that needs modernization. Its failure of the grid which will force that and electric cars seem quite likely to force that failure. -Curt Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 07:58:18 -0500 From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight Message-ID: m139ai26c5@156-56-179-237.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't have anything *against* electric vehicles per-se, I just find annoying the rose-colored advocacy that tries to rationalize away the very real limitations they currently have. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
On 10/02/2012 2:51 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: You can't compare the Tesla to other normal cars though, how many people road trip in a Ferrari? Thats the market Tesla competes against. It is purely a rich people's toy. Anyway I find it amusing that the most common counter argument is but its range is so limited when most people admit that on a regular basis they rarely need more range... I'd like to see electric cars put more demand on our electrical grid and finally force everybody to take a hard look at an overstressed system that needs modernization. Its failure of the grid which will force that and electric cars seem quite likely to force that failure. -Curt http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gothamdreamcars.com/images/Lamborghini/lamborghini-murcielago-lp640-1.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.gothamdreamcars.com/new-york-city/lamborghini-murcielago-rental.htmh=416w=647sz=76tbnid=tJSfzMV7nPdz1M:tbnh=90tbnw=140prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlamborghini%2Bmurcielago%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Duzoom=1q=lamborghini+murcielagodocid=sdIspnT7evOSfMsa=Xei=UZ41T7WWCoHg2QW4kOmjAgved=0CFAQ9QEwAwdur=192 Don't know if this will work. If not, it is a link to this - lamborghini murcielago - in the burnt orange color. Passed one going east near Falcon Lake Manitoba a year or two back. Odd to see things like that out on the highway. What? Just drive it out to the cottage with your fishing gear in the trunk?? Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
Total sales for ALL electric cars in USA , I believe, are quoted as less than 10,000 units, Tesla, for all it's hype will be less than a thousand units. I don't see the electric grid being stressed any time soon... add to that equation all the now empty to be foreclosed homes plus loss of jobs or fear of loss of jobs with household cutbacks and electric KW sales are actually down for the past 2 yrs... IMHO, Grant... On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: You can't compare the Tesla to other normal cars though, how many people road trip in a Ferrari? Thats the market Tesla competes against. It is purely a rich people's toy. Anyway I find it amusing that the most common counter argument is but its range is so limited when most people admit that on a regular basis they rarely need more range... I'd like to see electric cars put more demand on our electrical grid and finally force everybody to take a hard look at an overstressed system that needs modernization. Its failure of the grid which will force that and electric cars seem quite likely to force that failure. -Curt Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 07:58:18 -0500 From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight Message-ID: m139ai26c5@156-56-179-237.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't have anything *against* electric vehicles per-se, I just find annoying the rose-colored advocacy that tries to rationalize away the very real limitations they currently have. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
You PASSED it?! 'Didn't know they were passable. ;) Wilton - Original Message - From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight On 10/02/2012 2:51 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: You can't compare the Tesla to other normal cars though, how many people road trip in a Ferrari? Thats the market Tesla competes against. It is purely a rich people's toy. Anyway I find it amusing that the most common counter argument is but its range is so limited when most people admit that on a regular basis they rarely need more range... I'd like to see electric cars put more demand on our electrical grid and finally force everybody to take a hard look at an overstressed system that needs modernization. Its failure of the grid which will force that and electric cars seem quite likely to force that failure. -Curt http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gothamdreamcars.com/images/Lamborghini/lamborghini-murcielago-lp640-1.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.gothamdreamcars.com/new-york-city/lamborghini-murcielago-rental.htmh=416w=647sz=76tbnid=tJSfzMV7nPdz1M:tbnh=90tbnw=140prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlamborghini%2Bmurcielago%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Duzoom=1q=lamborghini+murcielagodocid=sdIspnT7evOSfMsa=Xei=UZ41T7WWCoHg2QW4kOmjAgved=0CFAQ9QEwAwdur=192 Don't know if this will work. If not, it is a link to this - lamborghini murcielago - in the burnt orange color. Passed one going east near Falcon Lake Manitoba a year or two back. Odd to see things like that out on the highway. What? Just drive it out to the cottage with your fishing gear in the trunk?? Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
Yeahbut its NOT a small economy car. Its a quite powerful sports car. Did you miss the 248HP electric motor? Remember thats 248HP at 0rpm. 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. A Nissan Leaf competitor this is not. How many people road trip in their Ferrari? The almost universal about electric cars is the range, even among people who admit that they stay in a pretty small area. Assuming I could get my office to put in a charging port a Nissan Leaf would do me just fine and I have a pretty long-distance commute at 56 miles each way. -Curt Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:47:32 -0500 From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight Message-ID: 1328903252.15642.140661034932...@webmail.messagingengine.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii According to the Wikipedia entry for the Tesla Roadster: Recharging with electricity from the average USA grid [...] yields a full-cycle energy-equivalency of 44.0 mpg. The formula for full-cycle energy-equivalency considers a bunch of upstream factors in the production and transmission of electricity and petroleum-based fuels. So it's decently economical, on par with other small gasoline-powered cars but certainly less than the most efficient diesel-powered cars. Full details http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster#Energy_efficiency Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
I used to commute with a guy who had a Lotus Elise, he'd drive it two or three times a week in the spring, summer and fall. Seeing one out on the highway isn't that surprising really, its a toy car, for fun jaunts here and there... -Curt Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:48:58 -0600 From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight Message-ID: 4f359eda.9070...@bennell.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 10/02/2012 2:51 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: You can't compare the Tesla to other normal cars though, how many people road trip in a Ferrari? Thats the market Tesla competes against. It is purely a rich people's toy. Anyway I find it amusing that the most common counter argument is but its range is so limited when most people admit that on a regular basis they rarely need more range... I'd like to see electric cars put more demand on our electrical grid and finally force everybody to take a hard look at an overstressed system that needs modernization. Its failure of the grid which will force that and electric cars seem quite likely to force that failure. -Curt http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gothamdreamcars.com/images/Lamborghini/lamborghini-murcielago-lp640-1.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.gothamdreamcars.com/new-york-city/lamborghini-murcielago-rental.htmh=416w=647sz=76tbnid=tJSfzMV7nPdz1M:tbnh=90tbnw=140prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlamborghini%2Bmurcielago%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Duzoom=1q=lamborghini+murcielagodocid=sdIspnT7evOSfMsa=Xei=UZ41T7WWCoHg2QW4kOmjAgved=0CFAQ9QEwAwdur=192 Don't know if this will work. If not, it is a link to this - lamborghini murcielago - in the burnt orange color. Passed one going east near Falcon Lake Manitoba a year or two back. Odd to see things like that out on the highway. What? Just drive it out to the cottage with your fishing gear in the trunk?? Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
-Curt wrote: You can't compare the Tesla to other normal cars though, how many people road trip in a Ferrari? Thats the market Tesla competes against. It is purely a rich people's toy. My 240D 3-pedal daily driver was purely a rich people's toy in 1984. Well... not toy, but... I'd like to see electric cars put more demand on our electrical grid and finally force everybody to take a hard look at an overstressed system that needs modernization. Its failure of the grid which will force that and electric cars seem quite likely to force that failure. Your suggestion seems good, as long as the modernization is not a government function that makes the already fat corporate cats obese. Let us fail, let the market rule. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
Hmmnh, seems to be a pretty expensive car and bound to be way more so over here, when it gets here, if it gets here. Also the model S does not appear to have a range extender motor, so when the juice runs out the thing stops? What is the plan? Drive 300miles and then charge it up for a few hours and go again? I am thinking this is aimed at the upmarket commuter people? Hendrik who is still using dinosaur fluid to get around Allan Streib wrote: http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: Hmmnh, seems to be a pretty expensive car and bound to be way more so over here, when it gets here, if it gets here. Also the model S does not appear to have a range extender motor, so when the juice runs out the thing stops? Yep the Tesla cars are all electric. What is the plan? Drive 300miles and then charge it up for a few hours and go again? I am thinking this is aimed at the upmarket commuter people? Yeah they really only make sense for people with a lot of discretionary cash who can afford to have a car they only drive locally. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
On Feb 9, 2012 8:15 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: What is the plan? Drive 300miles and then charge it up for a few hours and go again? I am thinking this is aimed at the upmarket commuter people? Yeah they really only make sense for people with a lot of discretionary cash who can afford to have a car they only drive locally. I rarely drive the 300D outside a 50-mile radius, and don't think I've ever broken 100 miles in 24 hours. I don't really drive the SDL outside the area much more than that, and I could certainly avoid it entirely. Meanwhile I wouldn't mind the travel expense reduction and increased maintenance intervals. I would mind having another car payment though so I think I'll just have to survive in diesel-motivated luxury instead. :) Best, -Tim doesn't do that much work on the diesels, though it's not because they don't want it... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
Allan Streib wrote: Yeah they really only make sense for people with a lot of discretionary cash who can afford to have a car they only drive locally. I think it's just another toy. My Realtor has a Miata, I forget how many years old he said it is, with 5000 miles on it. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
300 miles on a charge. In gas that's +/- $40. Electricity is free. (Maybe the light bill goes up some) Yep, wer'e screwed. Did it to our selves. Blame it on Washington. Who sends the idiots there? IRMC! On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Allan Streib wrote: Yeah they really only make sense for people with a lot of discretionary cash who can afford to have a car they only drive locally. I think it's just another toy. My Realtor has a Miata, I forget how many years old he said it is, with 5000 miles on it. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Katy, TX '82 300SD '01 VW New Beetle 1.9L TDI ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight
Tesla and Toyota are colaborating on a Rav4 EV which I actually got to see and ride in as well since my brother-in-llaw works for Toyota. Electric vehicles would suit our family driving habits very well. It wouldn't tow the boat or travel trailer, so we would have to have a fuel burner in the fleet for that, the '07 Dodge Diesel. I have a feeling that the price is going to scare me off, and the people hauler Crypsler Around Town Country MV is nearly paid off with only 33Kmi on it. Having no payment would be nice! Kevin in Hillsboro, Oregon -Original Message- From: Tim C Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 5:37 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model X unveiling tonight On Feb 9, 2012 8:15 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Hendrik Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes: What is the plan? Drive 300miles and then charge it up for a few hours and go again? I am thinking this is aimed at the upmarket commuter people? Yeah they really only make sense for people with a lot of discretionary cash who can afford to have a car they only drive locally. I rarely drive the 300D outside a 50-mile radius, and don't think I've ever broken 100 miles in 24 hours. I don't really drive the SDL outside the area much more than that, and I could certainly avoid it entirely. Meanwhile I wouldn't mind the travel expense reduction and increased maintenance intervals. I would mind having another car payment though so I think I'll just have to survive in diesel-motivated luxury instead. :) Best, -Tim doesn't do that much work on the diesels, though it's not because they don't want it... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
