Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

The Sonos speakers or sound systems got bricked because the manufacturer 
decided to stop supporting it. Rather than just letting things die a slow 
death, they tell users to put the speakers in “recycle mode” which disabled 
things when the EoL came. I’ll have to look it up and see, I just know that I 
made a mental note to never buy their product.

The other side of this is when you’ve got something that has functionality 
that’s cloud-based and the manufacturer decides to abandon it. I had a Nest 
thermostat that was essentially useless when Google bought Nest, as they 
decided to stop supporting the first couple generations of Nest thermostats. 
Sure, it still works as a thermostat, but the ability to access it remotely is 
gone, which is one of the features I bought it for.

Never again.

-D

> On Apr 19, 2022, at 3:04 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Here's another example of what can happen when devices depend on "the cloud" 
> to operate...
> 
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/04/shameful-insteon-looks-dead-just-like-its-users-smart-homes/
> 
> ... oopps, the mother ship shut down, and now all the satellite devices are 
> as good as bricked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 6:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> It’s like a SaaS model for cars 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:33 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 
 I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change things 
 after the fact.
>>> 
>>> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
>>> 
>>> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only for 
>>> software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on 
>>> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
>>> 
>>> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car.
>>> 
>>> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
>>> Klaus Schwab
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Here's another example of what can happen when devices depend on "the cloud" to 
operate...

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/04/shameful-insteon-looks-dead-just-like-its-users-smart-homes/

... oopps, the mother ship shut down, and now all the satellite devices are as 
good as bricked.




On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 6:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> It’s like a SaaS model for cars 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:33 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change things 
>>> after the fact.
>> 
>> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
>> 
>> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only for 
>> software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on 
>> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
>> 
>> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car.
>> 
>> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
>> Klaus Schwab
>> 
>> 
>> Rick
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

My guess is, once the manufacturing has ended, much of this information gets 
"misplaced."



On Tue, Apr 19, 2022, at 12:13 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
> At some point (20yr? Less) manufacturers should be required to publish 
> code, schematics, wiring/connector diagrams, etc for the aftermarket to 
> step in and provide replacement parts. Some of it can be reverse 
> engineered it seems but it’s not always compatible. I’m thinking “OEM” 
> ECUs and that kind of stuff. 
>
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
>
>> On Apr 19, 2022, at 11:52 AM, G Mann via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Ok, back to Mercedes talk, for a moment.
>> It has become virtually routine that someone posts a car that is offered
>> for sale that has issues which have turned it into a mechanical brick,
>> caused by "something electrical" in the "electrical to mechanical controls
>> systems" [now a myriad of systems, often hidden deep within various
>> "computers" which cause the car to operate to an owners satisfaction [and
>> emissions dictates imposed by controlling government agencies].
>> 
>> Via this discussion thread, it seems well established that computer
>> electrical components have a service life which is followed by "failure to
>> function as designed", however, it seems car manufacturers have failed to
>> identify and inform buyers [or after owners] what that service life is.
>> 
>> Mechanical case in point: With each vehicle regardless of the manufacturer,
>> there are published maintenance intervals.. ie.. oil change, brake flush,
>> transmission oil change, coolant change, filter change.. etc etc etc...
>> Yet, there are NO maintenance intervals established, or published, for
>> electrical components.
>> Should that be addressed? If so, exactly how?
>> Presently, NLA is the most common response when searching for a replacement
>> electrical component that has failed and bricked an otherwise useful car.
>> 
>>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 8:33 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think most SSD manufacturers try to disguise the wear out
>>> characteristics of their drives.
>>> 
>>> I talk about SSD life in class and many of my students are shocked to hear
>>> it...
>>> 
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022, 10:20:39 AM EDT, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 You get what you pay for here too, like most things.
>>> 
>>> If only.  The wear-out characteristics of most flash devices is NOT
>>> something
>>> they advertise, and on lower-cost stuff it isn't even known.  (To you.)
>>> 
>>> -- Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>> 
>>> 
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2022, at 10:19 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:
>> You get what you pay for here too, like most things.
>
> If only.  The wear-out characteristics of most flash devices is NOT something
> they advertise, and on lower-cost stuff it isn't even known.  (To you.)

Yeah in the consumer market probably not. For servers you can get "data center" 
grade SSDs that claim to be more durable. They are expensive. Maybe the flash 
isn't more durable, there is just more of it to allow for longer service life?

You can also get them optimized for reading or for writing, whatever you might 
want to put in your RFP the vendors will have an option so they can say "YES."


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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

IMHO the designs should be required to be escrowed, and the escrow
is released as soon as the manufacturer can/will no longer supply replacements.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[G Mann via Mercedes]

To that exact point.
In the aircraft industry, service life is determined on two things [or
more]. 1. Number of hours of operation. 2. Number of cycles of operation.
[startup / shutdown].
This standard works for both mechanical and electrical components.
Car manufacturers are certainly advanced enough to install such counters in
each component, are they not?
Thus, instead of a simple "check engine light", which means nothing to the
car owner, why not a message screen that says "Your transmission control
module has 3 hours or 92 shift cycles remaining before replacement is
required."


On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 9:14 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> At some point (20yr? Less) manufacturers should be required to publish
> code, schematics, wiring/connector diagrams, etc for the aftermarket to
> step in and provide replacement parts. Some of it can be reverse engineered
> it seems but it’s not always compatible. I’m thinking “OEM” ECUs and that
> kind of stuff.
>
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
>
> > On Apr 19, 2022, at 11:52 AM, G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > Ok, back to Mercedes talk, for a moment.
> > It has become virtually routine that someone posts a car that is offered
> > for sale that has issues which have turned it into a mechanical brick,
> > caused by "something electrical" in the "electrical to mechanical
> controls
> > systems" [now a myriad of systems, often hidden deep within various
> > "computers" which cause the car to operate to an owners satisfaction [and
> > emissions dictates imposed by controlling government agencies].
> >
> > Via this discussion thread, it seems well established that computer
> > electrical components have a service life which is followed by "failure
> to
> > function as designed", however, it seems car manufacturers have failed to
> > identify and inform buyers [or after owners] what that service life is.
> >
> > Mechanical case in point: With each vehicle regardless of the
> manufacturer,
> > there are published maintenance intervals.. ie.. oil change, brake flush,
> > transmission oil change, coolant change, filter change.. etc etc etc...
> > Yet, there are NO maintenance intervals established, or published, for
> > electrical components.
> > Should that be addressed? If so, exactly how?
> > Presently, NLA is the most common response when searching for a
> replacement
> > electrical component that has failed and bricked an otherwise useful car.
> >
> >> On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 8:33 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think most SSD manufacturers try to disguise the wear out
> >> characteristics of their drives.
> >>
> >> I talk about SSD life in class and many of my students are shocked to
> hear
> >> it...
> >>
> >> -Curt
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022, 10:20:39 AM EDT, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> You get what you pay for here too, like most things.
> >>
> >> If only.  The wear-out characteristics of most flash devices is NOT
> >> something
> >> they advertise, and on lower-cost stuff it isn't even known.  (To you.)
> >>
> >> -- Jim
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
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> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

At some point (20yr? Less) manufacturers should be required to publish code, 
schematics, wiring/connector diagrams, etc for the aftermarket to step in and 
provide replacement parts. Some of it can be reverse engineered it seems but 
it’s not always compatible. I’m thinking “OEM” ECUs and that kind of stuff. 

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Apr 19, 2022, at 11:52 AM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Ok, back to Mercedes talk, for a moment.
> It has become virtually routine that someone posts a car that is offered
> for sale that has issues which have turned it into a mechanical brick,
> caused by "something electrical" in the "electrical to mechanical controls
> systems" [now a myriad of systems, often hidden deep within various
> "computers" which cause the car to operate to an owners satisfaction [and
> emissions dictates imposed by controlling government agencies].
> 
> Via this discussion thread, it seems well established that computer
> electrical components have a service life which is followed by "failure to
> function as designed", however, it seems car manufacturers have failed to
> identify and inform buyers [or after owners] what that service life is.
> 
> Mechanical case in point: With each vehicle regardless of the manufacturer,
> there are published maintenance intervals.. ie.. oil change, brake flush,
> transmission oil change, coolant change, filter change.. etc etc etc...
> Yet, there are NO maintenance intervals established, or published, for
> electrical components.
> Should that be addressed? If so, exactly how?
> Presently, NLA is the most common response when searching for a replacement
> electrical component that has failed and bricked an otherwise useful car.
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 8:33 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think most SSD manufacturers try to disguise the wear out
>> characteristics of their drives.
>> 
>> I talk about SSD life in class and many of my students are shocked to hear
>> it...
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022, 10:20:39 AM EDT, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> You get what you pay for here too, like most things.
>> 
>> If only.  The wear-out characteristics of most flash devices is NOT
>> something
>> they advertise, and on lower-cost stuff it isn't even known.  (To you.)
>> 
>> -- Jim
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Ok, back to Mercedes talk, for a moment.
It has become virtually routine that someone posts a car that is offered
for sale that has issues which have turned it into a mechanical brick,
caused by "something electrical" in the "electrical to mechanical controls
systems" [now a myriad of systems, often hidden deep within various
"computers" which cause the car to operate to an owners satisfaction [and
emissions dictates imposed by controlling government agencies].

Via this discussion thread, it seems well established that computer
electrical components have a service life which is followed by "failure to
function as designed", however, it seems car manufacturers have failed to
identify and inform buyers [or after owners] what that service life is.

Mechanical case in point: With each vehicle regardless of the manufacturer,
there are published maintenance intervals.. ie.. oil change, brake flush,
transmission oil change, coolant change, filter change.. etc etc etc...
Yet, there are NO maintenance intervals established, or published, for
electrical components.
Should that be addressed? If so, exactly how?
Presently, NLA is the most common response when searching for a replacement
electrical component that has failed and bricked an otherwise useful car.

On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 8:33 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I think most SSD manufacturers try to disguise the wear out
> characteristics of their drives.
>
> I talk about SSD life in class and many of my students are shocked to hear
> it...
>
> -Curt
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022, 10:20:39 AM EDT, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > You get what you pay for here too, like most things.
>
> If only.  The wear-out characteristics of most flash devices is NOT
> something
> they advertise, and on lower-cost stuff it isn't even known.  (To you.)
>
> -- Jim
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

When I wrote that white paper, for work, I was surprised at just how
many failure mechanisms were in play.  This, on top of any other
common electronic failure mechanisms.  (Die contamination,
metal fatigue, electrophoretic migration, tin whiskers, oxidation, etc.)

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I think most SSD manufacturers try to disguise the wear out characteristics of 
their drives.

I talk about SSD life in class and many of my students are shocked to hear it...

-Curt


On Tuesday, April 19, 2022, 10:20:39 AM EDT, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
 wrote: 

> You get what you pay for here too, like most things.

If only.  The wear-out characteristics of most flash devices is NOT something
they advertise, and on lower-cost stuff it isn't even known.  (To you.)

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> IIRC they were doing a lot of writing of data to solid-state storage and 
> wearing it out.

Yep, we had some customers that turned on the debug logging features, to '11', 
and
left them on.  Took out the onboard flash in about a year.  Not too cool, 
losing six-figure
network backbone systems to that.  The stupid logs slowed it way down, too.  
Nobody
ever figured someone would do that.  But the 'hard disk' mentality takes time 
to go away.

> Yes, like a spinning hard drive, solid-state drives can wear out. They will 
> take a limited number of writes before they start throwing errors.

Hard disks basically don't wear out, they fail suddenly.  But until they do, 
they perform
as if new.  Not, not, NOT true of flash-based devices:

http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/flash.html 


> You get what you pay for here too, like most things.

If only.  The wear-out characteristics of most flash devices is NOT something
they advertise, and on lower-cost stuff it isn't even known.  (To you.)

-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Right up there with Bloodbath and Beyond.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 6:08 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> Nope.
>
> There used to be a great website with that domain name that was a 
> fantastic parody of the place, but it’s been gone for a long time. I’m 
> sure the “real” one shut it down.
>
> -D
>
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 6:06 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I love you typed, “Home Despot”. I thought that was a me thing. 
>> 
>> AZBob
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 12:33 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> We have a Kenmore fridge, top french doors, bottom freezer. THe ice maker
>>> died and was replaced twice under warranty. THe next time it "died", the
>>> warranty was expired, so I messed with it and figured out that the switch
>>> that keeps it from dumping when you open the bottom door - with a bit of
>>> jiggling things it was working again. Hasn't been a problem since (looking
>>> for wood) - 8 years now.
>>> 
 On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 1:14 PM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 I have a Sammy fridge too. First the bottom ice machine crapped out, was
 still nerf warranty (I might have an extended I don’t recall) so a guy came
 a fixed it with a plastic “fill tube” about 6” long that froze and broke.
 Duh, a plastic tube filled with water in a freezer. Who knew. So that one
 worked awhile but now it only works intermittently so I guess it’s not
 broken but on strike for some reason.
 
 It has an upper ice machine too that has basically frosted up. I keep
 forgetting to get a heat gun after it to get it working again.
 
 The machine is about 10yr old now and otherwise does it’s cooling and
 freezing thing so I guess that’s a win.
 
 I’ve been through 3 undercounter wine coolers now. Each has lasted 2-3
 years  I got the first one replaced for free. The second I think I paid
 shipping for a new one. This last one they wanted about half of a new one
 which would have been $600 or so, wholesale price I guess. The price on
 these things has doubled in say 10yr. I took the first two apart and the
 thin aluminum condensers both corroded and released the majick fluid.
 Outside these are really nice machines but the cooling systems are total
 cheepcheep chinesium. I talked to the vendor about them and they were very
 noncommittal, I guess if they can keep selling replacements no worries to
 them.
 
 I do like my 40+yo and 30+yo and 15+yo Benzes though.
 
 --FT
 Sent from iFōn
 
> On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:34 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> New Samsung refrigerator looked great with nice features but the ice
 maker for the door ice continues to freeze up and get jammed. Gave you and
 simple don’t use it anymore.
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> OK Don
>>> 
>>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>>> 
>>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  
>>> Wernher
>>> Von Braun
>>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

It’s like a SaaS model for cars 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:33 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change things 
>> after the fact.
> 
> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
> 
> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only for 
> software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on 
> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
> 
> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car.
> 
> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
> Klaus Schwab
> 
> 
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Kevin Kraly via Mercedes]

A month ago, we bought a new minivan, a 2022 Toyota Sienna. It has many 
subscription based features. There’s a handy Toyota app that allows you to stop 
and start your engine, lock and unlock the doors and a few other things. It’s 
free for the first year, but $9.00 per month after that. That van has the most 
uncomfortable seats. It does get 35mpg combined since it’s a hybrid. After 
three weeks, this wasn’t enough to offset the discomfort, so it found its way 
to a new owner, paid off the loan, and the 2008 Odyssey with over 164K miles is 
going to stay around. The current generation Odyssey vans have a host of 
recalls and issues, so we decided to get our deposit back and put some money 
into the 2008. It needs some new rubber seals/weatherstrip to fix some water 
leaks, it has some front suspension clunks, and it’s going to need 
engine/transmission mounts soon. Compared to the new vans, it’s easier to get 
into, more comfortable, has better air conditioning, and, best of all, NO CAR 
PAYMENT!
Kevin in Lexington, NC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 3:33 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change things 
>> after the fact.
> 
> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
> 
> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only for 
> software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on 
> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
> 
> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car.
> 
> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
> Klaus Schwab
> 
> 
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Nope.

There used to be a great website with that domain name that was a fantastic 
parody of the place, but it’s been gone for a long time. I’m sure the “real” 
one shut it down.

-D

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 6:06 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I love you typed, “Home Despot”. I thought that was a me thing. 
> 
> AZBob
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 12:33 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> We have a Kenmore fridge, top french doors, bottom freezer. THe ice maker
>> died and was replaced twice under warranty. THe next time it "died", the
>> warranty was expired, so I messed with it and figured out that the switch
>> that keeps it from dumping when you open the bottom door - with a bit of
>> jiggling things it was working again. Hasn't been a problem since (looking
>> for wood) - 8 years now.
>> 
>>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 1:14 PM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have a Sammy fridge too. First the bottom ice machine crapped out, was
>>> still nerf warranty (I might have an extended I don’t recall) so a guy came
>>> a fixed it with a plastic “fill tube” about 6” long that froze and broke.
>>> Duh, a plastic tube filled with water in a freezer. Who knew. So that one
>>> worked awhile but now it only works intermittently so I guess it’s not
>>> broken but on strike for some reason.
>>> 
>>> It has an upper ice machine too that has basically frosted up. I keep
>>> forgetting to get a heat gun after it to get it working again.
>>> 
>>> The machine is about 10yr old now and otherwise does it’s cooling and
>>> freezing thing so I guess that’s a win.
>>> 
>>> I’ve been through 3 undercounter wine coolers now. Each has lasted 2-3
>>> years  I got the first one replaced for free. The second I think I paid
>>> shipping for a new one. This last one they wanted about half of a new one
>>> which would have been $600 or so, wholesale price I guess. The price on
>>> these things has doubled in say 10yr. I took the first two apart and the
>>> thin aluminum condensers both corroded and released the majick fluid.
>>> Outside these are really nice machines but the cooling systems are total
>>> cheepcheep chinesium. I talked to the vendor about them and they were very
>>> noncommittal, I guess if they can keep selling replacements no worries to
>>> them.
>>> 
>>> I do like my 40+yo and 30+yo and 15+yo Benzes though.
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> Sent from iFōn
>>> 
 On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:34 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 New Samsung refrigerator looked great with nice features but the ice
>>> maker for the door ice continues to freeze up and get jammed. Gave you and
>>> simple don’t use it anymore.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

I love you typed, “Home Despot”. I thought that was a me thing. 

AZBob

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 12:33 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> We have a Kenmore fridge, top french doors, bottom freezer. THe ice maker
> died and was replaced twice under warranty. THe next time it "died", the
> warranty was expired, so I messed with it and figured out that the switch
> that keeps it from dumping when you open the bottom door - with a bit of
> jiggling things it was working again. Hasn't been a problem since (looking
> for wood) - 8 years now.
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 1:14 PM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I have a Sammy fridge too. First the bottom ice machine crapped out, was
>> still nerf warranty (I might have an extended I don’t recall) so a guy came
>> a fixed it with a plastic “fill tube” about 6” long that froze and broke.
>> Duh, a plastic tube filled with water in a freezer. Who knew. So that one
>> worked awhile but now it only works intermittently so I guess it’s not
>> broken but on strike for some reason.
>> 
>> It has an upper ice machine too that has basically frosted up. I keep
>> forgetting to get a heat gun after it to get it working again.
>> 
>> The machine is about 10yr old now and otherwise does it’s cooling and
>> freezing thing so I guess that’s a win.
>> 
>> I’ve been through 3 undercounter wine coolers now. Each has lasted 2-3
>> years  I got the first one replaced for free. The second I think I paid
>> shipping for a new one. This last one they wanted about half of a new one
>> which would have been $600 or so, wholesale price I guess. The price on
>> these things has doubled in say 10yr. I took the first two apart and the
>> thin aluminum condensers both corroded and released the majick fluid.
>> Outside these are really nice machines but the cooling systems are total
>> cheepcheep chinesium. I talked to the vendor about them and they were very
>> noncommittal, I guess if they can keep selling replacements no worries to
>> them.
>> 
>> I do like my 40+yo and 30+yo and 15+yo Benzes though.
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iFōn
>> 
>>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:34 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> New Samsung refrigerator looked great with nice features but the ice
>> maker for the door ice continues to freeze up and get jammed. Gave you and
>> simple don’t use it anymore.
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

SWMBO is always right you know!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 5:18 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> 
> You just made someone very happy.  SWMBO insists on rinsing.
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 5:06 PM Dimitri Seretakis  
>> wrote:
>> If you want clogged hoses and filters then scrape. They tell you not to 
>> rinse because they want you to think you are saving water and getting a more 
>> user friendly experience. They claim that the detergent clings better to 
>> food particles. I call BS as does my repairman. I’ve spent hundreds of 
>> dollars repairing modern dishwashers damaged by not pre-rinsing dishes.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:43 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > Bosch manual says "scrape dishes DO NOT RINSE before loading."
>> > 
>> >> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 4:33 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> There are also a lot fewer manufacturers than there are brands. KitchenAid
>> >> used to be made by Hobart and that established their reputation. Today 
>> >> they
>> >> are just a brand of Whirlpool, as is Maytag, another brand that used to be
>> >> known for dependability.
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 3:21 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote:
>> >>> Kitchen aid dishwashers are considered good by today’s standards, as
>> >>> are Bosch but the longest lifespan dishwashers made today are Miele. Of
>> >>> course these are probably all junk compared to the stuff made 30-40 yrs
>> >>> ago.
>> >>> 
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>> 
>>  On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>  
>>  We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door
>> >> fridge
>>  and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired once,
>>  then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
>>  replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble at
>>  all.
>>  
>> > On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes <
>> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > 
>> > The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
>> > leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
>> > applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the
>> >> car
>> > be any different?
>> > 
>> > On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
>> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> >>> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
>> >> things after the fact.
>> >> 
>> >> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
>> >> 
>> >> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not
>> >> only
>> >> for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options
>> >> on
>> >> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> > 
>> >> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
>> >> .
>> >> 
>> >> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
>> >> Klaus Schwab
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> Rick
>> >> ___
>> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >> 
>> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >> 
>> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> > 
>> > --
>> > OK Don
>> > 
>> > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> > pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> > 
>> > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> > Wernher
>> > Von Braun
>> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> > 
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> > 
>>  ___
>>  http://www.okiebenz.com
>>  
>>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>  
>>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>  
>> >>> 
>> >>> 
>> >>> ___
>> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >>> 
>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.co

Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

You just made someone very happy.  SWMBO insists on rinsing.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 5:06 PM Dimitri Seretakis 
wrote:

> If you want clogged hoses and filters then scrape. They tell you not to
> rinse because they want you to think you are saving water and getting a
> more user friendly experience. They claim that the detergent clings better
> to food particles. I call BS as does my repairman. I’ve spent hundreds of
> dollars repairing modern dishwashers damaged by not pre-rinsing dishes.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:43 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Bosch manual says "scrape dishes DO NOT RINSE before loading."
> >
> >> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 4:33 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> There are also a lot fewer manufacturers than there are brands.
> KitchenAid
> >> used to be made by Hobart and that established their reputation. Today
> they
> >> are just a brand of Whirlpool, as is Maytag, another brand that used to
> be
> >> known for dependability.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 3:21 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote:
> >>> Kitchen aid dishwashers are considered good by today’s standards, as
> >>> are Bosch but the longest lifespan dishwashers made today are Miele. Of
> >>> course these are probably all junk compared to the stuff made 30-40 yrs
> >>> ago.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>  We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door
> >> fridge
>  and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired
> once,
>  then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
>  replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble
> at
>  all.
> 
> > On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented
> or
> > leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
> > applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the
> >> car
> > be any different?
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
> >> things after the fact.
> >>
> >> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
> >>
> >> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not
> >> only
> >> for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options
> >> on
> >> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >>
> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
> >> .
> >>
> >> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
> >> Klaus Schwab
> >>
> >>
> >> Rick
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time
> to
> > pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >
> > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> > Wernher
> > Von Braun
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://ww

Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

If you want clogged hoses and filters then scrape. They tell you not to rinse 
because they want you to think you are saving water and getting a more user 
friendly experience. They claim that the detergent clings better to food 
particles. I call BS as does my repairman. I’ve spent hundreds of dollars 
repairing modern dishwashers damaged by not pre-rinsing dishes.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:43 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Bosch manual says "scrape dishes DO NOT RINSE before loading."
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 4:33 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> There are also a lot fewer manufacturers than there are brands. KitchenAid
>> used to be made by Hobart and that established their reputation. Today they
>> are just a brand of Whirlpool, as is Maytag, another brand that used to be
>> known for dependability.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 3:21 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote:
>>> Kitchen aid dishwashers are considered good by today’s standards, as
>>> are Bosch but the longest lifespan dishwashers made today are Miele. Of
>>> course these are probably all junk compared to the stuff made 30-40 yrs
>>> ago.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door
>> fridge
 and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired once,
 then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
 replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble at
 all.
 
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
> 
> The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
> leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
> applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the
>> car
> be any different?
> 
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>>> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
>> things after the fact.
>> 
>> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
>> 
>> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not
>> only
>> for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options
>> on
>> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
>> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
>> .
>> 
>> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
>> Klaus Schwab
>> 
>> 
>> Rick
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> --
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/ma

Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Yeah, we got burned on Maytag in the last Florida house. Bought a range/over 
and a fridge. The fridge was OK, the dishwasher a POS, but the range/oven, 
which we still have, has been wonky for a number of years and no one seems to 
know how to fix it. We know the work-aound, and we like it otherwise, so it’s 
still serving us.

It’s a range that has a double oven - small one on top, big one below. Th big 
one is a convection oven. If you turn on the lower (convection) oven and change 
the temperature setting after it preheats, it goes into “preheat” mode and the 
temperature falls and never gets to the setpoint. You can turn it off and reset 
it and it works. There’s a hard reset for the controls that was suggested but 
it does nothing to resolve the issue. They sent  tech out multiple times but 
absolutely refused to replace the controls under warranty, saying he couldn’t 
recreate the issue (but he did, twice.) They offered us a $300 credit for a 
$1200 oven. Nope.

I made sure we posted everywhere we could in the way of appliance repair forums 
about our issue. Of course we heard similar stories.

So much for the ”Maytag Man”.

-D



> On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:31 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> There are also a lot fewer manufacturers than there are brands. KitchenAid 
> used to be made by Hobart and that established their reputation. Today they 
> are just a brand of Whirlpool, as is Maytag, another brand that used to be 
> known for dependability.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 3:21 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote:
>> Kitchen aid dishwashers are considered good by today’s standards, as 
>> are Bosch but the longest lifespan dishwashers made today are Miele. Of 
>> course these are probably all junk compared to the stuff made 30-40 yrs 
>> ago.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door fridge
>>> and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired once,
>>> then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
>>> replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble at
>>> all.
>>> 
 On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
 wrote:
 
 The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
 leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
 applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the car
 be any different?
 
 On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
>> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
> things after the fact.
> 
> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
> 
> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
> for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
> 
> 
> 
 https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
> .
> 
> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
> Klaus Schwab
> 
> 
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
 
 --
 OK Don
 
 "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
 pause and reflect." Mark Twain
 
 “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
 Wernher
 Von Braun
 2013 F150, 18 mpg
 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> ___
> http:

Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Bosch manual says "scrape dishes DO NOT RINSE before loading."

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 4:33 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> There are also a lot fewer manufacturers than there are brands. KitchenAid
> used to be made by Hobart and that established their reputation. Today they
> are just a brand of Whirlpool, as is Maytag, another brand that used to be
> known for dependability.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 3:21 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote:
> > Kitchen aid dishwashers are considered good by today’s standards, as
> > are Bosch but the longest lifespan dishwashers made today are Miele. Of
> > course these are probably all junk compared to the stuff made 30-40 yrs
> > ago.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door
> fridge
> >> and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired once,
> >> then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
> >> replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble at
> >> all.
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
> >>> leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
> >>> applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the
> car
> >>> be any different?
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> > I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
>  things after the fact.
> 
>  You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
> 
>  Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not
> only
>  for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options
> on
>  automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
> 
> 
> 
> >>>
> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
>  .
> 
>  "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
>  Klaus Schwab
> 
> 
>  Rick
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> OK Don
> >>>
> >>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> >>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >>>
> >>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> >>> Wernher
> >>> Von Braun
> >>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> >>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> >>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

There are also a lot fewer manufacturers than there are brands. KitchenAid used 
to be made by Hobart and that established their reputation. Today they are just 
a brand of Whirlpool, as is Maytag, another brand that used to be known for 
dependability.



On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 3:21 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote:
> Kitchen aid dishwashers are considered good by today’s standards, as 
> are Bosch but the longest lifespan dishwashers made today are Miele. Of 
> course these are probably all junk compared to the stuff made 30-40 yrs 
> ago.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door fridge
>> and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired once,
>> then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
>> replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble at
>> all.
>> 
>>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
>>> leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
>>> applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the car
>>> be any different?
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
 things after the fact.
 
 You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
 
 Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
 for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
 automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
 
 
 
>>> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
 .
 
 "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
 Klaus Schwab
 
 
 Rick
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> OK Don
>>> 
>>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>>> 
>>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>>> Wernher
>>> Von Braun
>>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

I meant rinse off dishes prior to placing in dishwasher, not pre-washing.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:29 PM, Dimitri Seretakis  wrote:
> 
> Don’t be fooled. I deal with many dishwashers failing and getting repaired 
> by a repair man. They say to pre-wash dishes regardless of what any 
> manufacturer says.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:22 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Eh, the original DWs required you to scrupulously clean each dish before 
>> loading.  no thanks.
>> 
>>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM Dimitri Seretakis  
>>> wrote:
>>> Kitchen aid dishwashers are considered good by today’s standards, as are 
>>> Bosch but the longest lifespan dishwashers made today are Miele. Of course 
>>> these are probably all junk compared to the stuff made 30-40 yrs ago.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> > On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>>> >  wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door fridge
>>> > and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired once,
>>> > then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
>>> > replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble at
>>> > all.
>>> > 
>>> >> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
>>> >> 
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> 
>>> >> The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
>>> >> leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
>>> >> applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the car
>>> >> be any different?
>>> >> 
>>> >> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
>>> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> >> 
>>>  I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
>>> >>> things after the fact.
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
>>> >>> for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
>>> >>> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
>>> >>> .
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
>>> >>> Klaus Schwab
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Rick
>>> >>> ___
>>> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >> 
>>> >> --
>>> >> OK Don
>>> >> 
>>> >> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>>> >> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>>> >> 
>>> >> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>>> >> Wernher
>>> >> Von Braun
>>> >> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>>> >> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>>> >> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>>> >> ___
>>> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> >> 
>>> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> >> 
>>> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> >> 
>>> >> 
>>> > ___
>>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> > 
>>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> > 
>>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> > 
>>> 
___
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

Don’t be fooled. I deal with many dishwashers failing and getting repaired by a 
repair man. They say to pre-wash dishes regardless of what any manufacturer 
says.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:22 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> 
> Eh, the original DWs required you to scrupulously clean each dish before 
> loading.  no thanks.
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM Dimitri Seretakis  
>> wrote:
>> Kitchen aid dishwashers are considered good by today’s standards, as are 
>> Bosch but the longest lifespan dishwashers made today are Miele. Of course 
>> these are probably all junk compared to the stuff made 30-40 yrs ago.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door fridge
>> > and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired once,
>> > then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
>> > replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble at
>> > all.
>> > 
>> >> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
>> >> 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
>> >> leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
>> >> applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the car
>> >> be any different?
>> >> 
>> >> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
>> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >> 
>>  I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
>> >>> things after the fact.
>> >>> 
>> >>> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
>> >>> 
>> >>> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
>> >>> for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
>> >>> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
>> >>> 
>> >>> 
>> >>> 
>> >> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
>> >>> .
>> >>> 
>> >>> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
>> >>> Klaus Schwab
>> >>> 
>> >>> 
>> >>> Rick
>> >>> ___
>> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >>> 
>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >>> 
>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >>> 
>> >>> 
>> >> 
>> >> --
>> >> OK Don
>> >> 
>> >> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> >> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> >> 
>> >> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> >> Wernher
>> >> Von Braun
>> >> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> >> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> >> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> >> ___
>> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >> 
>> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >> 
>> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> > 
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> 
___
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

My own house also has a kitchen aid side by side fridge which is 15 years old. 
Also no problems. I have a rental property with a Fischer and Paykel fridge 
also 15 years old and rock solid. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door fridge
> and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired once,
> then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
> replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble at
> all.
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
>> leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
>> applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the car
>> be any different?
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
 I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
>>> things after the fact.
>>> 
>>> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
>>> 
>>> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
>>> for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
>>> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
>>> .
>>> 
>>> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
>>> Klaus Schwab
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Yup. Clean mine weekly.

At the Flagstaff house the previous owners spared no expense for appliances. 
Everything there is pretty high end stuff - not Wolf or like that, but the high 
end GE stuff, for example. The dishwasher is a Kitchenaid, I think, and not 
long after we bought the place the youngster pointed out that the little lever 
that holds the detergent dispenser closed doesn’t latch. That is, you have to 
move it to latch the lid over the dispenser, and then it’s happy. Not sure why 
this is, but we live with it. The soap dispenser assembly is available but it’s 
about $100 but before I drop $100 on a dishwasher of indeterminate age I’ll go 
down to Home Despot and buy a Bosch to replace it.

That being said, the Bosch in the Florida house that’s about two years old has 
a couple of spots on the lower rack where the coating has come off. Hmm.

-D

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:14 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The Bosch DW requires you to clean the food screen manually but is so well
> designed that it takes only 30 seconds to a minute to do, maybe twice
> monthly.
> 
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 4:07 PM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Right, that’s why I’m not buying a car that needs software to run.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 3:37 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
>>> leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
>>> applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the car
>>> be any different?
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
 things after the fact.
 
 You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
 
 Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
 for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
 automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
 
 
 
>> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
 .
 
 "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
 Klaus Schwab
 
 
 Rick
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> OK Don
>>> 
>>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>>> 
>>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> Wernher
>>> Von Braun
>>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Eh, the original DWs required you to scrupulously clean each dish before
loading.  no thanks.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 4:21 PM Dimitri Seretakis 
wrote:

> Kitchen aid dishwashers are considered good by today’s standards, as are
> Bosch but the longest lifespan dishwashers made today are Miele. Of course
> these are probably all junk compared to the stuff made 30-40 yrs ago.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door fridge
> > and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired once,
> > then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
> > replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble at
> > all.
> >
> >> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
> >> leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
> >> applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the
> car
> >> be any different?
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
>  I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
> >>> things after the fact.
> >>>
> >>> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
> >>>
> >>> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
> >>> for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
> >>> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
> >>> .
> >>>
> >>> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
> >>> Klaus Schwab
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Rick
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> OK Don
> >>
> >> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> >> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >>
> >> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> >> Wernher
> >> Von Braun
> >> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> >> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> >> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

Kitchen aid dishwashers are considered good by today’s standards, as are Bosch 
but the longest lifespan dishwashers made today are Miele. Of course these are 
probably all junk compared to the stuff made 30-40 yrs ago.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door fridge
> and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired once,
> then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
> replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble at
> all.
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
>> leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
>> applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the car
>> be any different?
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
 I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
>>> things after the fact.
>>> 
>>> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
>>> 
>>> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
>>> for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
>>> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
>>> .
>>> 
>>> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
>>> Klaus Schwab
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> OK Don
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

The Bosch DW requires you to clean the food screen manually but is so well
designed that it takes only 30 seconds to a minute to do, maybe twice
monthly.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 4:07 PM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Right, that’s why I’m not buying a car that needs software to run.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Apr 18, 2022, at 3:37 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
> > leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
> > applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the car
> > be any different?
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
> >> things after the fact.
> >>
> >> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
> >>
> >> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
> >> for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
> >> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
> >> .
> >>
> >> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
> >> Klaus Schwab
> >>
> >>
> >> Rick
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> > pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> >
> > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> > Von Braun
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

Right, that’s why I’m not buying a car that needs software to run.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 3:37 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
> leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
> applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the car
> be any different?
> 
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>>> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
>> things after the fact.
>> 
>> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
>> 
>> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
>> for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
>> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
>> .
>> 
>> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
>> Klaus Schwab
>> 
>> 
>> Rick
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I have a KitchenAid dishwasher. It tends to accumuate debris in the drain. 
There is a rotating blade there that is supposed to chop up food waste, but if 
a little chip of a plate or cup or bit of bone gets in there it will make a 
terrible noise. I need to clean mine out every year or two.

Allan


On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 3:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door fridge
> and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired once,
> then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
> replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble at
> all.
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:
>
>> The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
>> leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
>> applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the car
>> be any different?
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
>> > things after the fact.
>> >
>> > You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
>> >
>> > Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
>> > for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
>> > automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
>> > .
>> >
>> > "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
>> > Klaus Schwab
>> >
>> >
>> > Rick
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> OK Don
>>
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>>
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
>> Wernher
>> Von Braun
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

We moved in 9 years ago to a home that had KitchenAid double door fridge
and SS dishwasher - installed 5 years prior.  The DW was repaired once,
then started making a noise that didn't affect its operation, but we
replaced it anyway with a Bosch.  The fridge hasn't given any trouble at
all.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 3:37 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
> leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
> applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the car
> be any different?
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > > I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
> > things after the fact.
> >
> > You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
> >
> > Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
> > for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
> > automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
> > .
> >
> > "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
> > Klaus Schwab
> >
> >
> > Rick
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[OK Don via Mercedes]

The other factor is that software is usually considered to be rented or
leased, not owned by the user who pays for it - even old installed
applications like Office IIRC. So why should the software running the car
be any different?

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:33 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> > I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change
> things after the fact.
>
> You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.
>
> Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only
> for software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on
> automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.
>
>
> https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car
> .
>
> "You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
> Klaus Schwab
>
>
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[OK Don via Mercedes]

They are still in the infancy stage - take another look in 20 years or so.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 1:57 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Seems like a silly system, I see wanting to write but the base
> configuration should be on non-volitile storage with the drive relatively
> easy and inexpensive to replace...
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>   On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:54 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   IIRC they were doing a lot of writing of
> data to solid-state storage and wearing it out. Yes, like a spinning hard
> drive, solid-state drives can wear out. They will take a limited number of
> writes before they start throwing errors. You get what you pay for here
> too, like most things.
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> > Had some dealers tell me that but otherwise no.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:04 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >>
> >> Do you have a source for that? I see that Tesla has issued a big
> recall for screens, they're blaming it on the hard drive that runs the
> thing.
> >>
> >> Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long
> people keep cars...
> >>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change things 
> after the fact.

You are becoming a Luddite, Dan.

Sadly, most manufacturers are going to a "subscription" model, not only for 
software (I.E. QuickBooks, Office 365), but for enabling options on 
automobiles. Want heated seats? That will be $59.95 for the year.

https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-industry/why-you-might-need-to-subscribe-to-get-certain-features-on-your-next-car-a6575794430/#:~:text=At%20least%20five%20automakers%E2%80%94%20Audi%2C%20BMW%2C%20Cadillac%2C%20Porsche%2C,those%20features%20are%20already%20built%20into%20the%20car.

"You will own nothing, and you will be happy."
Klaus Schwab


Rick
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[OK Don via Mercedes]

We have a Kenmore fridge, top french doors, bottom freezer. THe ice maker
died and was replaced twice under warranty. THe next time it "died", the
warranty was expired, so I messed with it and figured out that the switch
that keeps it from dumping when you open the bottom door - with a bit of
jiggling things it was working again. Hasn't been a problem since (looking
for wood) - 8 years now.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 1:14 PM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have a Sammy fridge too. First the bottom ice machine crapped out, was
> still nerf warranty (I might have an extended I don’t recall) so a guy came
> a fixed it with a plastic “fill tube” about 6” long that froze and broke.
> Duh, a plastic tube filled with water in a freezer. Who knew. So that one
> worked awhile but now it only works intermittently so I guess it’s not
> broken but on strike for some reason.
>
> It has an upper ice machine too that has basically frosted up. I keep
> forgetting to get a heat gun after it to get it working again.
>
> The machine is about 10yr old now and otherwise does it’s cooling and
> freezing thing so I guess that’s a win.
>
> I’ve been through 3 undercounter wine coolers now. Each has lasted 2-3
> years  I got the first one replaced for free. The second I think I paid
> shipping for a new one. This last one they wanted about half of a new one
> which would have been $600 or so, wholesale price I guess. The price on
> these things has doubled in say 10yr. I took the first two apart and the
> thin aluminum condensers both corroded and released the majick fluid.
> Outside these are really nice machines but the cooling systems are total
> cheepcheep chinesium. I talked to the vendor about them and they were very
> noncommittal, I guess if they can keep selling replacements no worries to
> them.
>
> I do like my 40+yo and 30+yo and 15+yo Benzes though.
>
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
>
> > On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:34 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > New Samsung refrigerator looked great with nice features but the ice
> maker for the door ice continues to freeze up and get jammed. Gave you and
> simple don’t use it anymore.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Seems like a silly system, I see wanting to write but the base configuration 
should be on non-volitile storage with the drive relatively easy and 
inexpensive to replace...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 2:54 PM, Allan Streib via 
Mercedes wrote:   IIRC they were doing a lot of writing 
of data to solid-state storage and wearing it out. Yes, like a spinning hard 
drive, solid-state drives can wear out. They will take a limited number of 
writes before they start throwing errors. You get what you pay for here too, 
like most things.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> Had some dealers tell me that but otherwise no. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:04 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>> 
>> Do you have a source for that? I see that Tesla has issued a big recall for 
>> screens, they're blaming it on the hard drive that runs the thing.
>> 
>> Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long 
>> people keep cars...
>> 

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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

IIRC they were doing a lot of writing of data to solid-state storage and 
wearing it out. Yes, like a spinning hard drive, solid-state drives can wear 
out. They will take a limited number of writes before they start throwing 
errors. You get what you pay for here too, like most things.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> Had some dealers tell me that but otherwise no. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:04 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>> 
>> Do you have a source for that? I see that Tesla has issued a big recall for 
>> screens, they're blaming it on the hard drive that runs the thing.
>> 
>> Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long 
>> people keep cars...
>> 

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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Had some dealers tell me that but otherwise no. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:04 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> Do you have a source for that? I see that Tesla has issued a big recall for 
> screens, they're blaming it on the hard drive that runs the thing.
> 
> Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long 
> people keep cars...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, April 18, 2022, 01:26:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With Teslas the big screen is the middle is programmed to die after a certain 
> amount of time. Supposedly it quits working and it’s a software thing but the 
> whole assembly has to be replaced. Cars are basically the new iPhones. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Absolutely more green to keep using the same product indefinitely. There is 
>> no doubt in my mind that an EV will have a max lifespan of 15 years, most 
>> 10-12 years. The exceptions will be those few cars owned by people who are 
>> willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new battery to keep an 
>> obsolete rolling computer on the road. EVs are just NOT green and this is 
>> one of just several reasons. Anyone who thinks so is seriously deluded.
>> Does anyone spend a significant amount of money to repair a 10 year old 
>> computer or a 3 year old iPhone?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Off topic?
>>> On topic?
>>> 
>>> He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can keep 
>>> a Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than buying 
>>> another car every five or ten years?
>>> 
>>> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
>>> 
>>> It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
>>> 
>>> Planned obsolescence isn't green.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

I think the difference between the two was about $100. The lesser one had a lot 
of negative reviews, too.

-D

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:37 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> My general opinion is to get the best/most expensive or the absolute 
> cheapest. With the later at least you're not out a ton of money...
> 
> 
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Monday, April 18, 2022, 02:35:45 PM EDT, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just bought a Chinese beverage cooler to take the place of a trash 
> compactor at the Flagstaff house. It was that or a generic base cabinet I 
> likely wouldn’t have been able to match the rest.
> 
> Because the space is only 15” I had a heck of a time finding something that 
> would fit and wasn’t a small fortune. Home Despot had a couple, the one which 
> I chose was the more expensive of the two but had over five years of reviews, 
> all of which were good. So I rolled the dice.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:14 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have a Sammy fridge too. First the bottom ice machine crapped out, was 
>> still nerf warranty (I might have an extended I don’t recall) so a guy came 
>> a fixed it with a plastic “fill tube” about 6” long that froze and broke. 
>> Duh, a plastic tube filled with water in a freezer. Who knew. So that one 
>> worked awhile but now it only works intermittently so I guess it’s not 
>> broken but on strike for some reason. 
>> 
>> It has an upper ice machine too that has basically frosted up. I keep 
>> forgetting to get a heat gun after it to get it working again. 
>> 
>> The machine is about 10yr old now and otherwise does it’s cooling and 
>> freezing thing so I guess that’s a win. 
>> 
>> I’ve been through 3 undercounter wine coolers now. Each has lasted 2-3 years 
>>  I got the first one replaced for free. The second I think I paid shipping 
>> for a new one. This last one they wanted about half of a new one which would 
>> have been $600 or so, wholesale price I guess. The price on these things has 
>> doubled in say 10yr. I took the first two apart and the thin aluminum 
>> condensers both corroded and released the majick fluid. Outside these are 
>> really nice machines but the cooling systems are total cheepcheep chinesium. 
>> I talked to the vendor about them and they were very noncommittal, I guess 
>> if they can keep selling replacements no worries to them. 
>> 
>> I do like my 40+yo and 30+yo and 15+yo Benzes though. 
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iFōn
>> 
 On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:34 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> New Samsung refrigerator looked great with nice features but the ice maker 
>>> for the door ice continues to freeze up and get jammed. Gave you and simple 
>>> don’t use it anymore.
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

My general opinion is to get the best/most expensive or the absolute cheapest. 
With the later at least you're not out a ton of money...



-Curt

On Monday, April 18, 2022, 02:35:45 PM EDT, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





I just bought a Chinese beverage cooler to take the place of a trash compactor 
at the Flagstaff house. It was that or a generic base cabinet I likely wouldn’t 
have been able to match the rest.

Because the space is only 15” I had a heck of a time finding something that 
would fit and wasn’t a small fortune. Home Despot had a couple, the one which I 
chose was the more expensive of the two but had over five years of reviews, all 
of which were good. So I rolled the dice.

-D

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:14 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a Sammy fridge too. First the bottom ice machine crapped out, was 
> still nerf warranty (I might have an extended I don’t recall) so a guy came a 
> fixed it with a plastic “fill tube” about 6” long that froze and broke. Duh, 
> a plastic tube filled with water in a freezer. Who knew. So that one worked 
> awhile but now it only works intermittently so I guess it’s not broken but on 
> strike for some reason. 
> 
> It has an upper ice machine too that has basically frosted up. I keep 
> forgetting to get a heat gun after it to get it working again. 
> 
> The machine is about 10yr old now and otherwise does it’s cooling and 
> freezing thing so I guess that’s a win. 
> 
> I’ve been through 3 undercounter wine coolers now. Each has lasted 2-3 years  
> I got the first one replaced for free. The second I think I paid shipping for 
> a new one. This last one they wanted about half of a new one which would have 
> been $600 or so, wholesale price I guess. The price on these things has 
> doubled in say 10yr. I took the first two apart and the thin aluminum 
> condensers both corroded and released the majick fluid. Outside these are 
> really nice machines but the cooling systems are total cheepcheep chinesium. 
> I talked to the vendor about them and they were very noncommittal, I guess if 
> they can keep selling replacements no worries to them. 
> 
> I do like my 40+yo and 30+yo and 15+yo Benzes though. 
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:34 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> New Samsung refrigerator looked great with nice features but the ice maker 
>> for the door ice continues to freeze up and get jammed. Gave you and simple 
>> don’t use it anymore.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Apple products have a setting that allows you to choose anytime, when you want, 
or never.

-D

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:32 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> My least favorite "feature" of phones/tablets is the "You get an update 
> right now." whether I'm in the middle of something or not...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Monday, April 18, 2022, 02:30:09 PM EDT, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The issue I have with products like the Tesla is that they can control it 
> without your approval. There are a number of documented instances when the 
> cars changed hands and as a part of that process features were disabled so 
> that the new owner could not access them.
> 
> You can avoid this by not allowing updates, but that’s a double-edged sword.
> 
> I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change things 
> after the fact.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:18 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> “Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long 
>> people keep cars...”
>> Which is exactly why EVs are disposable and couple this with the fact that 
>> the hugely expensive batteries are relatively short lived.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:04 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Do you have a source for that? I see that Tesla has issued a big recall 
>>> for screens, they're blaming it on the hard drive that runs the thing.
>>> 
>>> Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long 
>>> people keep cars...
>>> 
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Monday, April 18, 2022, 01:26:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
  wrote: 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> With Teslas the big screen is the middle is programmed to die after a 
>>> certain amount of time. Supposedly it quits working and it’s a software 
>>> thing but the whole assembly has to be replaced. Cars are basically the new 
>>> iPhones. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Apr 18, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
 Absolutely more green to keep using the same product indefinitely. There 
 is no doubt in my mind that an EV will have a max lifespan of 15 years, 
 most 10-12 years. The exceptions will be those few cars owned by people 
 who are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new battery to 
 keep an obsolete rolling computer on the road. EVs are just NOT green and 
 this is one of just several reasons. Anyone who thinks so is seriously 
 deluded.
 Does anyone spend a significant amount of money to repair a 10 year old 
 computer or a 3 year old iPhone?
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
> 
> Off topic?
> On topic?
> 
> He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can 
> keep a Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than 
> buying another car every five or ten years?
> 
> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
> 
> It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
> 
> Planned obsolescence isn't green.
> 
> 
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
> 
 
 
 ___
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2022, at 10:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

> If you can keep a Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that
> more "green" than buying another car every five or ten years?

That has been my philosophy for the last 25 years or so.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

I just bought a Chinese beverage cooler to take the place of a trash compactor 
at the Flagstaff house. It was that or a generic base cabinet I likely wouldn’t 
have been able to match the rest.

Because the space is only 15” I had a heck of a time finding something that 
would fit and wasn’t a small fortune. Home Despot had a couple, the one which I 
chose was the more expensive of the two but had over five years of reviews, all 
of which were good. So I rolled the dice.

-D

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:14 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a Sammy fridge too. First the bottom ice machine crapped out, was 
> still nerf warranty (I might have an extended I don’t recall) so a guy came a 
> fixed it with a plastic “fill tube” about 6” long that froze and broke. Duh, 
> a plastic tube filled with water in a freezer. Who knew. So that one worked 
> awhile but now it only works intermittently so I guess it’s not broken but on 
> strike for some reason. 
> 
> It has an upper ice machine too that has basically frosted up. I keep 
> forgetting to get a heat gun after it to get it working again. 
> 
> The machine is about 10yr old now and otherwise does it’s cooling and 
> freezing thing so I guess that’s a win. 
> 
> I’ve been through 3 undercounter wine coolers now. Each has lasted 2-3 years  
> I got the first one replaced for free. The second I think I paid shipping for 
> a new one. This last one they wanted about half of a new one which would have 
> been $600 or so, wholesale price I guess. The price on these things has 
> doubled in say 10yr. I took the first two apart and the thin aluminum 
> condensers both corroded and released the majick fluid. Outside these are 
> really nice machines but the cooling systems are total cheepcheep chinesium. 
> I talked to the vendor about them and they were very noncommittal, I guess if 
> they can keep selling replacements no worries to them. 
> 
> I do like my 40+yo and 30+yo and 15+yo Benzes though. 
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:34 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> New Samsung refrigerator looked great with nice features but the ice maker 
>> for the door ice continues to freeze up and get jammed. Gave you and simple 
>> don’t use it anymore.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

My least favorite "feature" of phones/tablets is the "You get an update right 
now." whether I'm in the middle of something or not...

-Curt

On Monday, April 18, 2022, 02:30:09 PM EDT, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





The issue I have with products like the Tesla is that they can control it 
without your approval. There are a number of documented instances when the cars 
changed hands and as a part of that process features were disabled so that the 
new owner could not access them.

You can avoid this by not allowing updates, but that’s a double-edged sword.

I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change things after 
the fact.

-D

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:18 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> “Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long 
> people keep cars...”
> Which is exactly why EVs are disposable and couple this with the fact that 
> the hugely expensive batteries are relatively short lived.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:04 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Do you have a source for that? I see that Tesla has issued a big recall for 
>> screens, they're blaming it on the hard drive that runs the thing.
>> 
>> Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long 
>> people keep cars...
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Monday, April 18, 2022, 01:26:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote: 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> With Teslas the big screen is the middle is programmed to die after a 
>> certain amount of time. Supposedly it quits working and it’s a software 
>> thing but the whole assembly has to be replaced. Cars are basically the new 
>> iPhones. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Apr 18, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Absolutely more green to keep using the same product indefinitely. There 
>>> is no doubt in my mind that an EV will have a max lifespan of 15 years, 
>>> most 10-12 years. The exceptions will be those few cars owned by people who 
>>> are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new battery to keep 
>>> an obsolete rolling computer on the road. EVs are just NOT green and this 
>>> is one of just several reasons. Anyone who thinks so is seriously deluded.
>>> Does anyone spend a significant amount of money to repair a 10 year old 
>>> computer or a 3 year old iPhone?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
 Off topic?
 On topic?
 
 He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can 
 keep a Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than 
 buying another car every five or ten years?
 
 https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
 
 It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
 
 Planned obsolescence isn't green.
 
 
 Rick
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

The issue I have with products like the Tesla is that they can control it 
without your approval. There are a number of documented instances when the cars 
changed hands and as a part of that process features were disabled so that the 
new owner could not access them.

You can avoid this by not allowing updates, but that’s a double-edged sword.

I own it, it’s mine, the manufacturer should not be able to change things after 
the fact.

-D

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:18 PM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> “Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long 
> people keep cars...”
> Which is exactly why EVs are disposable and couple this with the fact that 
> the hugely expensive batteries are relatively short lived.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:04 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Do you have a source for that? I see that Tesla has issued a big recall for 
>> screens, they're blaming it on the hard drive that runs the thing.
>> 
>> Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long 
>> people keep cars...
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Monday, April 18, 2022, 01:26:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote: 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> With Teslas the big screen is the middle is programmed to die after a 
>> certain amount of time. Supposedly it quits working and it’s a software 
>> thing but the whole assembly has to be replaced. Cars are basically the new 
>> iPhones. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Apr 18, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Absolutely more green to keep using the same product indefinitely. There 
>>> is no doubt in my mind that an EV will have a max lifespan of 15 years, 
>>> most 10-12 years. The exceptions will be those few cars owned by people who 
>>> are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new battery to keep 
>>> an obsolete rolling computer on the road. EVs are just NOT green and this 
>>> is one of just several reasons. Anyone who thinks so is seriously deluded.
>>> Does anyone spend a significant amount of money to repair a 10 year old 
>>> computer or a 3 year old iPhone?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
 Off topic?
 On topic?
 
 He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can 
 keep a Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than 
 buying another car every five or ten years?
 
 https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
 
 It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
 
 Planned obsolescence isn't green.
 
 
 Rick
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

“Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long people 
keep cars...”
Which is exactly why EVs are disposable and couple this with the fact that the 
hugely expensive batteries are relatively short lived.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 2:04 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Do you have a source for that? I see that Tesla has issued a big recall for 
> screens, they're blaming it on the hard drive that runs the thing.
> 
> Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long 
> people keep cars...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, April 18, 2022, 01:26:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With Teslas the big screen is the middle is programmed to die after a certain 
> amount of time. Supposedly it quits working and it’s a software thing but the 
> whole assembly has to be replaced. Cars are basically the new iPhones. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Absolutely more green to keep using the same product indefinitely. There is 
>> no doubt in my mind that an EV will have a max lifespan of 15 years, most 
>> 10-12 years. The exceptions will be those few cars owned by people who are 
>> willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new battery to keep an 
>> obsolete rolling computer on the road. EVs are just NOT green and this is 
>> one of just several reasons. Anyone who thinks so is seriously deluded.
>> Does anyone spend a significant amount of money to repair a 10 year old 
>> computer or a 3 year old iPhone?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Off topic?
>>> On topic?
>>> 
>>> He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can keep 
>>> a Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than buying 
>>> another car every five or ten years?
>>> 
>>> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
>>> 
>>> It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
>>> 
>>> Planned obsolescence isn't green.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

I have a Sammy fridge too. First the bottom ice machine crapped out, was still 
nerf warranty (I might have an extended I don’t recall) so a guy came a fixed 
it with a plastic “fill tube” about 6” long that froze and broke. Duh, a 
plastic tube filled with water in a freezer. Who knew. So that one worked 
awhile but now it only works intermittently so I guess it’s not broken but on 
strike for some reason. 

It has an upper ice machine too that has basically frosted up. I keep 
forgetting to get a heat gun after it to get it working again. 

The machine is about 10yr old now and otherwise does it’s cooling and freezing 
thing so I guess that’s a win. 

I’ve been through 3 undercounter wine coolers now. Each has lasted 2-3 years  I 
got the first one replaced for free. The second I think I paid shipping for a 
new one. This last one they wanted about half of a new one which would have 
been $600 or so, wholesale price I guess. The price on these things has doubled 
in say 10yr. I took the first two apart and the thin aluminum condensers both 
corroded and released the majick fluid. Outside these are really nice machines 
but the cooling systems are total cheepcheep chinesium. I talked to the vendor 
about them and they were very noncommittal, I guess if they can keep selling 
replacements no worries to them. 

I do like my 40+yo and 30+yo and 15+yo Benzes though. 

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:34 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> New Samsung refrigerator looked great with nice features but the ice maker 
> for the door ice continues to freeze up and get jammed. Gave you and simple 
> don’t use it anymore.

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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Do you have a source for that? I see that Tesla has issued a big recall for 
screens, they're blaming it on the hard drive that runs the thing.

Sounds a bit like computer guys designing cars didn't consider how long people 
keep cars...

-Curt




On Monday, April 18, 2022, 01:26:37 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





With Teslas the big screen is the middle is programmed to die after a certain 
amount of time. Supposedly it quits working and it’s a software thing but the 
whole assembly has to be replaced. Cars are basically the new iPhones. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Absolutely more green to keep using the same product indefinitely. There is 
> no doubt in my mind that an EV will have a max lifespan of 15 years, most 
> 10-12 years. The exceptions will be those few cars owned by people who are 
> willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new battery to keep an 
> obsolete rolling computer on the road. EVs are just NOT green and this is one 
> of just several reasons. Anyone who thinks so is seriously deluded.
> Does anyone spend a significant amount of money to repair a 10 year old 
> computer or a 3 year old iPhone?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Off topic?
>> On topic?
>> 
>> He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can keep 
>> a Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than buying 
>> another car every five or ten years?
>> 
>> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
>> 
>> It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
>> 
>> Planned obsolescence isn't green.
>> 
>> 
>> Rick
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

>> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

Bought a Samsung dishwasher this summer for a rental property. It failed in 
three months. Samsung said it was not repairable and that they could not 
replace it and would not pay for labor. They told me to go to their online 
store and with a credit buy whatever I wanted - could be a smart phone or  
whatever. They couldn’t guarantee that they even had a dishwasher. I argued 
over a period of four months and probably over 15 hours of phone conversations 
until they finally agreed to issue me a refund. I replaced it with a Bosch.
I bought an LG Refrigerator for another rental property. The compressor failed 
within four months. They repaired it under warranty. A couple of years later 
the icemaker started leaking and destroyed the wooden floor in the kitchen. I 
just disconnected it and shut off the water supply. A couple years ago the 
freezer would not get down to low enough temps but it works intermittently. My 
tenants are dealing with it.
Moral of the story, do not buy Samsung or LG appliances. They are trash.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 1:34 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> We have a Maytag washer and drier front loading pair that has to be 15 years 
> old now. A couple of years ago the bearing in the back of the tub started 
> making loud noises. I found some videos of replacing it because Maytag does 
> not sell it. Just the entire tub assembly. Found the proper bearing, took the 
> whole machine apart including removing tub and replaced it. It’s fine but 
> rattles some when spinning but it’s fine. 
> 
> New Samsung refrigerator looked great with nice features but the ice maker 
> for the door ice continues to freeze up and get jammed. Gave you and simple 
> don’t use it anymore. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:10 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> As you all know, I have a few rental properties. Until a few years ago, I 
>> would be tempted by brands such as Samsung or LG or other low end “American” 
>> brands for appliances because they were relatively inexpensive but looked 
>> good in stainless suits. I’ve learned my lesson. Samsung and LG appliances 
>> are utter garbage. I now only buy Bosch dishwashers and Speed Queen washers. 
>> Ironically, I’m now perpetuating the spoiled lifestyle of my college student 
>> tenants by giving them premium appliances. And speaking of not being green, 
>> college kids who claim to care about the environment leave behind an 
>> unimaginable volume of perfectly serviceable things (even new in packaging 
>> luxury items) when they move out. How is this green?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:56 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don’t have a problem paying more for a product if it’s going to last 
>>> longer and provide the same functionality. Something like a dishwasher, 
>>> washing machine, etc., that wouldn’t change significantly as far as 
>>> functionality makes a lot of sense. Certainly, stuff breaks, but who needs 
>>> a new dryer every 5-7 years if it’s still capable of drying clothes?
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:50 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
 Absolutely more green to keep using the same product indefinitely. There 
 is no doubt in my mind that an EV will have a max lifespan of 15 years, 
 most 10-12 years. The exceptions will be those few cars owned by people 
 who are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new battery to 
 keep an obsolete rolling computer on the road. EVs are just NOT green and 
 this is one of just several reasons. Anyone who thinks so is seriously 
 deluded.
 Does anyone spend a significant amount of money to repair a 10 year old 
 computer or a 3 year old iPhone?
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
> 
> Off topic?
> On topic?
> 
> He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can 
> keep a Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than 
> buying another car every five or ten years?
> 
> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
> 
> It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
> 
> Planned obsolescence isn't green.
> 
> 
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
 
 
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 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> 

Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

We have a Maytag washer and drier front loading pair that has to be 15 years 
old now. A couple of years ago the bearing in the back of the tub started 
making loud noises. I found some videos of replacing it because Maytag does not 
sell it. Just the entire tub assembly. Found the proper bearing, took the whole 
machine apart including removing tub and replaced it. It’s fine but rattles 
some when spinning but it’s fine. 

New Samsung refrigerator looked great with nice features but the ice maker for 
the door ice continues to freeze up and get jammed. Gave you and simple don’t 
use it anymore. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:10 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> As you all know, I have a few rental properties. Until a few years ago, I 
> would be tempted by brands such as Samsung or LG or other low end “American” 
> brands for appliances because they were relatively inexpensive but looked 
> good in stainless suits. I’ve learned my lesson. Samsung and LG appliances 
> are utter garbage. I now only buy Bosch dishwashers and Speed Queen washers. 
> Ironically, I’m now perpetuating the spoiled lifestyle of my college student 
> tenants by giving them premium appliances. And speaking of not being green, 
> college kids who claim to care about the environment leave behind an 
> unimaginable volume of perfectly serviceable things (even new in packaging 
> luxury items) when they move out. How is this green?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:56 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t have a problem paying more for a product if it’s going to last 
>> longer and provide the same functionality. Something like a dishwasher, 
>> washing machine, etc., that wouldn’t change significantly as far as 
>> functionality makes a lot of sense. Certainly, stuff breaks, but who needs a 
>> new dryer every 5-7 years if it’s still capable of drying clothes?
>> 
>> -D
>> 
 On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:50 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Absolutely more green to keep using the same product indefinitely. There is 
>>> no doubt in my mind that an EV will have a max lifespan of 15 years, most 
>>> 10-12 years. The exceptions will be those few cars owned by people who are 
>>> willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new battery to keep an 
>>> obsolete rolling computer on the road. EVs are just NOT green and this is 
>>> one of just several reasons. Anyone who thinks so is seriously deluded.
>>> Does anyone spend a significant amount of money to repair a 10 year old 
>>> computer or a 3 year old iPhone?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
 Off topic?
 On topic?
 
 He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can 
 keep a Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than 
 buying another car every five or ten years?
 
 https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
 
 It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
 
 Planned obsolescence isn't green.
 
 
 Rick
 ___
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
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>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

With Teslas the big screen is the middle is programmed to die after a certain 
amount of time. Supposedly it quits working and it’s a software thing but the 
whole assembly has to be replaced. Cars are basically the new iPhones. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Absolutely more green to keep using the same product indefinitely. There is 
> no doubt in my mind that an EV will have a max lifespan of 15 years, most 
> 10-12 years. The exceptions will be those few cars owned by people who are 
> willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new battery to keep an 
> obsolete rolling computer on the road. EVs are just NOT green and this is one 
> of just several reasons. Anyone who thinks so is seriously deluded.
> Does anyone spend a significant amount of money to repair a 10 year old 
> computer or a 3 year old iPhone?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Off topic?
>> On topic?
>> 
>> He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can keep 
>> a Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than buying 
>> another car every five or ten years?
>> 
>> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
>> 
>> It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
>> 
>> Planned obsolescence isn't green.
>> 
>> 
>> Rick
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

As you all know, I have a few rental properties. Until a few years ago, I would 
be tempted by brands such as Samsung or LG or other low end “American” brands 
for appliances because they were relatively inexpensive but looked good in 
stainless suits. I’ve learned my lesson. Samsung and LG appliances are utter 
garbage. I now only buy Bosch dishwashers and Speed Queen washers. Ironically, 
I’m now perpetuating the spoiled lifestyle of my college student tenants by 
giving them premium appliances. And speaking of not being green, college kids 
who claim to care about the environment leave behind an unimaginable volume of 
perfectly serviceable things (even new in packaging luxury items) when they 
move out. How is this green?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:56 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t have a problem paying more for a product if it’s going to last 
> longer and provide the same functionality. Something like a dishwasher, 
> washing machine, etc., that wouldn’t change significantly as far as 
> functionality makes a lot of sense. Certainly, stuff breaks, but who needs a 
> new dryer every 5-7 years if it’s still capable of drying clothes?
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:50 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Absolutely more green to keep using the same product indefinitely. There is 
>> no doubt in my mind that an EV will have a max lifespan of 15 years, most 
>> 10-12 years. The exceptions will be those few cars owned by people who are 
>> willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new battery to keep an 
>> obsolete rolling computer on the road. EVs are just NOT green and this is 
>> one of just several reasons. Anyone who thinks so is seriously deluded.
>> Does anyone spend a significant amount of money to repair a 10 year old 
>> computer or a 3 year old iPhone?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Off topic?
>>> On topic?
>>> 
>>> He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can keep 
>>> a Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than buying 
>>> another car every five or ten years?
>>> 
>>> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
>>> 
>>> It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
>>> 
>>> Planned obsolescence isn't green.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

I don’t have a problem paying more for a product if it’s going to last longer 
and provide the same functionality. Something like a dishwasher, washing 
machine, etc., that wouldn’t change significantly as far as functionality makes 
a lot of sense. Certainly, stuff breaks, but who needs a new dryer every 5-7 
years if it’s still capable of drying clothes?

-D

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:50 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Absolutely more green to keep using the same product indefinitely. There is 
> no doubt in my mind that an EV will have a max lifespan of 15 years, most 
> 10-12 years. The exceptions will be those few cars owned by people who are 
> willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new battery to keep an 
> obsolete rolling computer on the road. EVs are just NOT green and this is one 
> of just several reasons. Anyone who thinks so is seriously deluded.
> Does anyone spend a significant amount of money to repair a 10 year old 
> computer or a 3 year old iPhone?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Off topic?
>> On topic?
>> 
>> He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can keep 
>> a Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than buying 
>> another car every five or ten years?
>> 
>> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
>> 
>> It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
>> 
>> Planned obsolescence isn't green.
>> 
>> 
>> Rick
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

Absolutely more green to keep using the same product indefinitely. There is no 
doubt in my mind that an EV will have a max lifespan of 15 years, most 10-12 
years. The exceptions will be those few cars owned by people who are willing to 
spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new battery to keep an obsolete rolling 
computer on the road. EVs are just NOT green and this is one of just several 
reasons. Anyone who thinks so is seriously deluded.
Does anyone spend a significant amount of money to repair a 10 year old 
computer or a 3 year old iPhone?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Off topic?
> On topic?
> 
> He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can keep a 
> Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than buying 
> another car every five or ten years?
> 
> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
> 
> It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
> 
> Planned obsolescence isn't green.
> 
> 
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

I don’t think this is political in nature, Rick. It’s about planned 
obsolescence, and is spot-on. It makes sense to me that manufacturers be 
required to maintain spared for a reasonable period of time as described or pay 
a disposal fee up front.

That makes perfect sense to me, and it would also identify who doesn’t want to 
bear the expense of building products that would have some longevity.

If I go to buy an appliance and I see that a particular manufacturer is paying 
the disposal fee it tells me they don’t have a lot of confidence in the 
integrity of their products.

-D

> On Apr 18, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Off topic?
> On topic?
> 
> He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can keep a 
> Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than buying 
> another car every five or ten years?
> 
> https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674
> 
> It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.
> 
> Planned obsolescence isn't green.
> 
> 
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Specifically. Damn autocorrect.


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: April 18, 2022 10:18 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: rickkno...@hotmail.com
Subject: [MBZ] Truth On Repairability

Off topic?
On topic?

He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can keep a 
Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than buying another 
car every five or ten years?

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674

It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.

Planned obsolescence isn't green.


Rick
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[MBZ] Truth On Repairability

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Off topic?
On topic?

He doesn't discuss Mercedes specially, but let's be honest. If you can keep a 
Wxxx on the road for 40 plus years, isn't that more "green" than buying another 
car every five or ten years?

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=245674

It truly pisses me off when I go to repair something, and can't get parts.

Planned obsolescence isn't green.


Rick
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