Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns
I would think it would cost more to build a safer car. I dont see how it could be the same. Hendrik Fay wrote: So Mercedes cars cost the same to build/develop as a Chinese car? So why do they charge so much money for them? Guess it is all that extra money they have to pay the workers, I can't wait till they build MB's in China and then we can buy Mercs for under 10K. Peter Frederick wrote: Doesn't cost a cent more to manufacture a fairly safe car than a hunk of junk. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns
- Original Message - From: Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] And don't forget, the Chinese car is nothing like a Benz, and they cheat terribly on both materials and exchange rate. One of the same quality would be much more expensive, just like high quality Chinese or Japanese machine tools. Peter --- Speaking of Chinese machine tools, I've been getting regular flyers from Smithy machine tools in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Their very nice looking lathes, which also have a vertical mill, must be made in China; considering that their prices range from $1500 to only $3500 for relatively complex machines. Has anyone had experience with their lathes? Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns
archer wrote: Speaking of Chinese machine tools, I've been getting regular flyers from Smithy machine tools in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Their very nice looking lathes, which also have a vertical mill, must be made in China; considering that their prices range from $1500 to only $3500 for relatively complex machines. Has anyone had experience with their lathes? No, but I've heard that Grizzly (spelling?) sells the same stuff cheaper. I've got a machinist friend in New England who told me several years ago to ask him what deal he could get before buying any Chinese machinery, but IIRC we were mostly talking about my driving out to his place and getting it loaded in my truck. Don't know if he could have it drop shipped, or if he still deals in machine tools. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns
Obviously it would cost more to build a current C class than a Hyundai. Both in development cost and cost of components. You can't just look at the actual cost of putting the machine together on an assembly line. The C class is full of near new technology while the Hyundai is a copy of technology from other manufacturers. Sure MB have to have a higher margin per car because of the amount of vehicles they sell. I did read how much money MB poured into the 204, something like 600 million (not sure if it was euros or $'s). Does Hyundai spend 600 million on developing one of their models? Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: I would think it would cost more to build a safer car. I dont see how it could be the same. Hendrik Fay wrote: So Mercedes cars cost the same to build/develop as a Chinese car? So why do they charge so much money for them? Guess it is all that extra money they have to pay the workers, I can't wait till they build MB's in China and then we can buy Mercs for under 10K. Peter Frederick wrote: Doesn't cost a cent more to manufacture a fairly safe car than a hunk of junk. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns
My 68 Chevy has a steering shaft close to 4 feet long and about 3/4 of an inch in diameter. I wouldn't really want it to come poking through the steering wheel and into me. I have to admit that is one reason why I have considered selling it. My wife and one of my sons is opposed as they think it is a classic. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 4:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo Ah, the good old days. Makes you wonder why people insist on driving pickup trucks, which until a few years ago were identical to what they were in 1950 with the exception of a collapsable steering column. I remember the days when a front collision usually resulted in the death of the driver due to chest injuries from the steering wheel and column impaling them. Benz, naturally, had padded and them collapsable steering columns long before they were required in the US, and has always put the steering box way back behind the axle, unlike GM who used to hand the bumper on it. The driver that hit me doing about 60 walked away unscathed, due to the crush zones in both vehicles and his air bags. I just got a serious kick in the ribs and some glass in my arm. I'm quite happy. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns
The collapsible steering column was invented by GM in the late 60s and GM gave the patentable technology to the auto industry because they though it was too important to keep for themselves. This was the most important safety advancement in the 60's, probably followed by Mercedes inventing crumple zones in the early 60's. Mercedes also gave that patentable technology to the auto industry for the same reason GM gave the collapsible steering column to the auto industry. The most important safety advancement of all time probably is the driver side airbags, invented by Ford. Mercedes was the first manufacturer to have driver side airbags as standard equipment that was in the 300E. But nothing has advanced safety (and the cost) of vehicles than the state of California deciding that they had the right to sue the Federal Government for not imposing high enough safety standards! Now they are attempting the same thing with fuel economy standards. Hope you like driving itty bitty cars with itty bitty engines that get 60 MPG. If California has its way then they will soon be coming to a car lot near you! Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of R A Bennell Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:13 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns My 68 Chevy has a steering shaft close to 4 feet long and about 3/4 of an inch in diameter. I wouldn't really want it to come poking through the steering wheel and into me. I have to admit that is one reason why I have considered selling it. My wife and one of my sons is opposed as they think it is a classic. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 4:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo Ah, the good old days. Makes you wonder why people insist on driving pickup trucks, which until a few years ago were identical to what they were in 1950 with the exception of a collapsable steering column. I remember the days when a front collision usually resulted in the death of the driver due to chest injuries from the steering wheel and column impaling them. Benz, naturally, had padded and them collapsable steering columns long before they were required in the US, and has always put the steering box way back behind the axle, unlike GM who used to hand the bumper on it. The driver that hit me doing about 60 walked away unscathed, due to the crush zones in both vehicles and his air bags. I just got a serious kick in the ribs and some glass in my arm. I'm quite happy. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns
Mercedes patented the crumple zones in the late 40's, was in production in 1953 with the Ponton. Crushable steering columns were installed in the early 60's -- check out any Finny. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns
Mercedes started working on airbags in the early 60s, too (tested in the W108s). Detail work kept them from being installed in cars for quite a while -- something about killing the passengers with the air bags and blowing the windows out Airbags are great. Only good for one shot, though, and no replacement for seat belts in any situation -- my belt kept me safely in my seat (although my head seems to have barked the roof, I got a nice rug burn in my big bald spot!). American manufacturers were busy spending huge piles of money lobbying Congress to stop legistation for safety features, not making safer cars, that lasted up to the mid 70's. Doesn't cost a cent more to manufacture a fairly safe car than a hunk of junk. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns
So Mercedes cars cost the same to build/develop as a Chinese car? So why do they charge so much money for them? Guess it is all that extra money they have to pay the workers, I can't wait till they build MB's in China and then we can buy Mercs for under 10K. Peter Frederick wrote: Doesn't cost a cent more to manufacture a fairly safe car than a hunk of junk. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns
The dead at the scene drunk driver that demolished my 1962 220Sb died from steering column impalement. I had no internal chest injuries [but numerous others] thanks to the MB steering wheel. Good technology. BillR Jacksonville FL -Original Message- From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 11/20/07 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns The collapsible steering column was invented by GM in the late 60s and GM gave the patentable technology to the auto industry because they though it was too important to keep for themselves. This was the most important safety advancement in the 60's, probably followed by Mercedes inventing crumple zones in the early 60's. Mercedes also gave that patentable technology to the auto industry for the same reason GM gave the collapsible steering column to the auto industry. The most important safety advancement of all time probably is the driver side airbags, invented by Ford. Mercedes was the first manufacturer to have driver side airbags as standard equipment that was in the 300E. But nothing has advanced safety (and the cost) of vehicles than the state of California deciding that they had the right to sue the Federal Government for not imposing high enough safety standards! Now they are attempting the same thing with fuel economy standards. Hope you like driving itty bitty cars with itty bitty engines that get 60 MPG. If California has its way then they will soon be coming to a car lot near you! Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of R A Bennell Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:13 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns My 68 Chevy has a steering shaft close to 4 feet long and about 3/4 of an inch in diameter. I wouldn't really want it to come poking through the steering wheel and into me. I have to admit that is one reason why I have considered selling it. My wife and one of my sons is opposed as they think it is a classic. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 4:57 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Volvo Ah, the good old days. Makes you wonder why people insist on driving pickup trucks, which until a few years ago were identical to what they were in 1950 with the exception of a collapsable steering column. I remember the days when a front collision usually resulted in the death of the driver due to chest injuries from the steering wheel and column impaling them. Benz, naturally, had padded and them collapsable steering columns long before they were required in the US, and has always put the steering box way back behind the axle, unlike GM who used to hand the bumper on it. The driver that hit me doing about 60 walked away unscathed, due to the crush zones in both vehicles and his air bags. I just got a serious kick in the ribs and some glass in my arm. I'm quite happy. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns
MBs aren't that expensive in Europe, pretty competitive with the upper line Ford and GM products, and they are luxury cars. Weight for weight, though, the only difference is design and assembly. MBUSA used to mark them up 100% -- it was cheaper to take delivery direct from the factory AND take a two week vacation in Germany than it was to buy one off the showroom floor! My brother in law priced one in 1983 -- list price at the dealer in Evansville was almost exactly double for an SD -- $19000 in Germany, $38000 here. MB makes cars from stampings just like everyone else. May have more metal where it counts, but a W124 or W115 chassis weighs the same as an 85 Buick Century and is almost exactly the same size, so it's gotta be how it's put together, because the Benz, even the W115, is vastly safer for the occupants and doesn't have any more material in it. American cars, in my experience, are very poorly engineered for low cost assembly. I remember a friend's story about when Ford bought Volvo and was going to fix their assembly cost problems. Found out real fast that it cost Volvo less than 2/3 as much to assemble a car IN SWEDEN than it cost Ford in the US since Volvo designed for easy assembly instead of stick a million screws in it. I suspect Ford learned a lot from that experience, and I know that Chrysler did from being part of Benz. GM still can't put a car together without a billion hours of awkward hand labor, that's why they are in financial trouble. Fifty screws run in with a power tool by someone lying on their back is no substitute for thinking for a couple minutes to find a way to make all the dash parts interlock so that a couple bolts and a dozen screws hold the entire thing in properly, without rattles and squeaks. I had to replace the wiper assembly in my 740 (actually, I fixed it but had to take it out anyway) and wasn't looking forward to the experience after putting a new washer pump on my sister-in-law's Buick which took several hours. Funny, on the Volvo all I had to do was pull the wiper arms, remove ONE screw and lift off the cowl cover, then unplug the wiper motor and take out the retaining bolts, out it came. 10 min max time. You tell me who thought about assembly and who didn't. And don't forget, the Chinese car is nothing like a Benz, and they cheat terribly on both materials and exchange rate. One of the same quality would be much more expensive, just like high quality Chinese or Japanese machine tools. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Volvo- Steering Columns
Yeah, the big pad in the center, the collapsable bowl underneath, and the short steering column connected to the steering box just in front of your feet makes a big difference. If you have a belt on, you will hit it square on, smashing the bowl down about six inches while you only touch the pad and the rim (which won't break off the column since it bolts onto the bowl). I cannot imagine an impact that would not kill you outright from brain stem detachement or aortal tears that would push the steering box up. The old Corvair had the steering box right behind the front bumper (less than six inches in) and a long, straight steering column of solid steel rod. Classic death was a minor rear-ender that broke the driver's neck when the steering wheel shot out of the dash and hooked the driver under the chin. Plain stupid if you ask me, why would you ever put the steering box up there? GM did it on everything I know of from the early 50's at least to the late 70's. I'm sure you, like I, was very glad to be driving a Benz when you spotted the idiot about to hit you! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
