Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Any idea if the springs you re-used were the same length as the originals? I don't think I've seen any reference having the original length. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:38 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Actually, if you don't replace the copper seals, you usually get one or two that won't re-seal, and then you have running problems. I've replaced two sets so far, but have not replaced the springs. No problems. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Hi Gang - The PV in the manual for my W123 looks identical to the ones I'll be servicing shortly in my W124. I don't have the torque specs for the W123 PVs - are they the same as the ones in my W124? May as well change the W123 PV washers too - I suspect they are the originals with over 312k Miles on it ;-) Its probably time. Hopefully the same special socket I bought will fit the 123 as well. It'd probably be a good idea to change the o-ring, spring and Cu washer as well, right? Thanks - LarryT 91 300D 78 240D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:18 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Any idea if the springs you re-used were the same length as the originals? I don't think I've seen any reference having the original length. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:38 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Actually, if you don't replace the copper seals, you usually get one or two that won't re-seal, and then you have running problems. I've replaced two sets so far, but have not replaced the springs. No problems. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Torque specs and tool are the same, but I don't know about the internal parts. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:08 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Gang - The PV in the manual for my W123 looks identical to the ones I'll be servicing shortly in my W124. I don't have the torque specs for the W123 PVs - are they the same as the ones in my W124? May as well change the W123 PV washers too - I suspect they are the originals with over 312k Miles on it ;-) Its probably time. Hopefully the same special socket I bought will fit the 123 as well. It'd probably be a good idea to change the o-ring, spring and Cu washer as well, right? Thanks - LarryT 91 300D 78 240D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:18 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Any idea if the springs you re-used were the same length as the originals? I don't think I've seen any reference having the original length. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:38 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Actually, if you don't replace the copper seals, you usually get one or two that won't re-seal, and then you have running problems. I've replaced two sets so far, but have not replaced the springs. No problems. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Thx Max - the parts are similar but it's hard to tell if identical from the diagrams - they're very close. Now I need to see if my TW will allow a setting as low as 30 35Nm. Thx agn - LarryT Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:17 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Torque specs and tool are the same, but I don't know about the internal parts. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:08 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Gang - The PV in the manual for my W123 looks identical to the ones I'll be servicing shortly in my W124. I don't have the torque specs for the W123 PVs - are they the same as the ones in my W124? May as well change the W123 PV washers too - I suspect they are the originals with over 312k Miles on it ;-) Its probably time. Hopefully the same special socket I bought will fit the 123 as well. It'd probably be a good idea to change the o-ring, spring and Cu washer as well, right? Thanks - LarryT 91 300D 78 240D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:18 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Any idea if the springs you re-used were the same length as the originals? I don't think I've seen any reference having the original length. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:38 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Actually, if you don't replace the copper seals, you usually get one or two that won't re-seal, and then you have running problems. I've replaced two sets so far, but have not replaced the springs. No problems. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Excellent - I love to hear when things go well! Larry 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:47 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems I've replaced the DVs on three engines now - two 603s and one 602. I removed enough to get plenty of room, and know that the intake manifold ws off of at least one, but don't remember about the other two. Used the special socket and a standard Sears clicking TW - no problems with any of them. Might have been blind luck, but following the procedure worked great. On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 9:00 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Thx Max - I looked at the procedure in the Tech Data book and wonder why the last torque it says 30Nm + 5Nm - I want to be absolutely sure I do this right - I wonder why they didn't just say 35Nm's? As far as torque wrenches - I have a 3/8 click type as well as a 1/4 drive beam bar (??) type for inch #s. But I'll take your advice and make sure one or the other will work. As far as doing one DV at a time, then starting the engine to test for noises - on my 602-962 engine it looks like I'll need to remove the intake air manifold that comes across the engine from the turbo to the intake. This is over the IP so will need to come off. It's not a he deal I suppose but will make for a longer time needed. If proper torqueing will prevent warping, I would think I can do the 3 step procedure. I've torqued a lot of heads using a multi-stage method followed by a 45 degree movement. Is there something especially tough about properly torquing the DV's? Not being argumentative - just trying to understand -- Thanks again for the help - Larry 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, Fix it: loosen and repeat the three step torque procedure. Take a close look at the clearances above the IP, to make sure you can fit a torque wrench in there. On my OM603 the intake manifold makes it a very tight fit. A smaller torque wrench may be required. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Max -- Thanks *very* much for your experienced suggestions! As far as your comment Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) That's why I took it to the dealer - while my fuel filters are new, cannot find any air leaks, have treated it for carbon in the pre-chambers (along with 2 years of 100 mi RT at 67-70mph) I can't be sure of the other possibilities. Obviously, I'm hoping the MB Technician knew what he was doing. I will replace the springs and make sure all is clean - you're right about the springs - seems like false economy not to replace them while you're in there. But I have a question about the possibility of warping the IP body when torqing the DVs - you said it's necessary to Fix it. How would I do that? Maybe I'd be better off letting the dealer do it??I cringe at the thought of damaging the IP!! I'm off to get springs and the removal tool from Rusty - Thx agn - It's all *very* helpful!! Even if this doesn't fix the rocking completely, it appears it's something that needs to be done. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
I spoke with Rusty yesterday and he does not have the socket for the Injector Valves - I ordered one from Baum Tools for $40+$7 shipping. Hopefully it'll arrive soon. Rusty does have the DV springs and the MB procedure says to replace them (I already have the O-rings and copper washers) - but strangely not the o-rings - only to oil them prior to installation. Also, I looked at the engine last night to see how difficult it will be to torque the delivery valves and while it would be easier if I remove the intake manifold I hope that won't be necessary - it will all depend on the height of the socket with the torque wrench attached. Hopefully I can find a way - I don't really want to RR the intake manifold but will if need be. Thx for all the great info - Larry 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Frederick W Moir fred.s...@verizon.net Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:19 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, et al. The socket,(from Rusty I think), that I have is made by Kokon from Japan. P/N 4133. 18mm inside with lots of fine teeth. Call Rusty, he's The Man. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred. At 10:14 AM 10/14/2009, you wrote: One more question. Rusty doesn't have the special socket - he suggested Assenbachertool but the only one I saw there was a 22mm MB Injector tool - it looks like a hex socket - my memory of the DVs is it having a bunch of teeth around it so a matching socket would be needed. The car is not here so I can't go look - Any idea where I might find/rent this socket? Is it a 22mm socket? ($33 above) Thanks! Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
so what all are you supposed to replace? I need to do them on my 606. I ordered the o rings but that is it, do I need the washers and the springs also? LarryT wrote: I spoke with Rusty yesterday and he does not have the socket for the Injector Valves - I ordered one from Baum Tools for $40+$7 shipping. Hopefully it'll arrive soon. Rusty does have the DV springs and the MB procedure says to replace them (I already have the O-rings and copper washers) - but strangely not the o-rings - only to oil them prior to installation. Also, I looked at the engine last night to see how difficult it will be to torque the delivery valves and while it would be easier if I remove the intake manifold I hope that won't be necessary - it will all depend on the height of the socket with the torque wrench attached. Hopefully I can find a way - I don't really want to RR the intake manifold but will if need be. Thx for all the great info - Larry 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Frederick W Moir fred.s...@verizon.net Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:19 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, et al. The socket,(from Rusty I think), that I have is made by Kokon from Japan. P/N 4133. 18mm inside with lots of fine teeth. Call Rusty, he's The Man. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred. At 10:14 AM 10/14/2009, you wrote: One more question. Rusty doesn't have the special socket - he suggested Assenbachertool but the only one I saw there was a 22mm MB Injector tool - it looks like a hex socket - my memory of the DVs is it having a bunch of teeth around it so a matching socket would be needed. The car is not here so I can't go look - Any idea where I might find/rent this socket? Is it a 22mm socket? ($33 above) Thanks! Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com -- next part -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2400 - Release Date: 09/28/09 05:51:00 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
If you have a rough idle and suspect a DV could be contributing, then I'd recommend the springs and the copper washer, but many have only replaced the copper washer and suffered no ill by re-using the springs. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:04 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems so what all are you supposed to replace? I need to do them on my 606. I ordered the o rings but that is it, do I need the washers and the springs also? LarryT wrote: I spoke with Rusty yesterday and he does not have the socket for the Injector Valves - I ordered one from Baum Tools for $40+$7 shipping. Hopefully it'll arrive soon. Rusty does have the DV springs and the MB procedure says to replace them (I already have the O-rings and copper washers) - but strangely not the o-rings - only to oil them prior to installation. Also, I looked at the engine last night to see how difficult it will be to torque the delivery valves and while it would be easier if I remove the intake manifold I hope that won't be necessary - it will all depend on the height of the socket with the torque wrench attached. Hopefully I can find a way - I don't really want to RR the intake manifold but will if need be. Thx for all the great info - Larry 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Frederick W Moir fred.s...@verizon.net Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:19 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, et al. The socket,(from Rusty I think), that I have is made by Kokon from Japan. P/N 4133. 18mm inside with lots of fine teeth. Call Rusty, he's The Man. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred. At 10:14 AM 10/14/2009, you wrote: One more question. Rusty doesn't have the special socket - he suggested Assenbachertool but the only one I saw there was a 22mm MB Injector tool - it looks like a hex socket - my memory of the DVs is it having a bunch of teeth around it so a matching socket would be needed. The car is not here so I can't go look - Any idea where I might find/rent this socket? Is it a 22mm socket? ($33 above) Thanks! Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com -- next part -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2400 - Release Date: 09/28/09 05:51:00 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
I did the o-rings and the copper washer, per Marshall. I wondered about the springs, but didn't order them, so didn't replace them. On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil wrote: If you have a rough idle and suspect a DV could be contributing, then I'd recommend the springs and the copper washer, but many have only replaced the copper washer and suffered no ill by re-using the springs. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:04 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems so what all are you supposed to replace? I need to do them on my 606. I ordered the o rings but that is it, do I need the washers and the springs also? -- OK Don CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others. The Devil's Dictionary Ambrose Bierce -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20091015/11a275b0/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Hi Max - Seems like once I've taken the DVs apart I may as well replace the o-rings. Does it not? Also, the o-rings are the least expensive parts (IIRC) - the springs are over $17 for 5 from Rusty. Hmmm. BTW, Max I rec'd similar training - I was a mechanics apprentice at a VW-Porsche dealer in the late 60s. Had to replace many exhaust studs ;-) LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:04 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems If you have a rough idle and suspect a DV could be contributing, then I'd recommend the springs and the copper washer, but many have only replaced the copper washer and suffered no ill by re-using the springs. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:04 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems so what all are you supposed to replace? I need to do them on my 606. I ordered the o rings but that is it, do I need the washers and the springs also? LarryT wrote: I spoke with Rusty yesterday and he does not have the socket for the Injector Valves - I ordered one from Baum Tools for $40+$7 shipping. Hopefully it'll arrive soon. Rusty does have the DV springs and the MB procedure says to replace them (I already have the O-rings and copper washers) - but strangely not the o-rings - only to oil them prior to installation. Also, I looked at the engine last night to see how difficult it will be to torque the delivery valves and while it would be easier if I remove the intake manifold I hope that won't be necessary - it will all depend on the height of the socket with the torque wrench attached. Hopefully I can find a way - I don't really want to RR the intake manifold but will if need be. Thx for all the great info - Larry 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Frederick W Moir fred.s...@verizon.net Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:19 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, et al. The socket,(from Rusty I think), that I have is made by Kokon from Japan. P/N 4133. 18mm inside with lots of fine teeth. Call Rusty, he's The Man. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred. At 10:14 AM 10/14/2009, you wrote: One more question. Rusty doesn't have the special socket - he suggested Assenbachertool but the only one I saw there was a 22mm MB Injector tool - it looks like a hex socket - my memory of the DVs is it having a bunch of teeth around it so a matching socket would be needed. The car is not here so I can't go look - Any idea where I might find/rent this socket? Is it a 22mm socket? ($33 above) Thanks! Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com -- next part -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2400 - Release Date: 09/28/09 05:51:00 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Larry The o-rings are what seals the inside from the outside, prevents fuel getting out and air getting in. DV repairs are normally brought on because of that, but it makes sense to replace the copper seals and springs while in the area. Harry - Original Message - From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Max - Seems like once I've taken the DVs apart I may as well replace the o-rings. Does it not? Also, the o-rings are the least expensive parts (IIRC) - the springs are over $17 for 5 from Rusty. Hmmm. BTW, Max I rec'd similar training - I was a mechanics apprentice at a VW-Porsche dealer in the late 60s. Had to replace many exhaust studs ;-) LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:04 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems If you have a rough idle and suspect a DV could be contributing, then I'd recommend the springs and the copper washer, but many have only replaced the copper washer and suffered no ill by re-using the springs. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:04 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems so what all are you supposed to replace? I need to do them on my 606. I ordered the o rings but that is it, do I need the washers and the springs also? LarryT wrote: I spoke with Rusty yesterday and he does not have the socket for the Injector Valves - I ordered one from Baum Tools for $40+$7 shipping. Hopefully it'll arrive soon. Rusty does have the DV springs and the MB procedure says to replace them (I already have the O-rings and copper washers) - but strangely not the o-rings - only to oil them prior to installation. Also, I looked at the engine last night to see how difficult it will be to torque the delivery valves and while it would be easier if I remove the intake manifold I hope that won't be necessary - it will all depend on the height of the socket with the torque wrench attached. Hopefully I can find a way - I don't really want to RR the intake manifold but will if need be. Thx for all the great info - Larry 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Frederick W Moir fred.s...@verizon.net Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:19 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, et al. The socket,(from Rusty I think), that I have is made by Kokon from Japan. P/N 4133. 18mm inside with lots of fine teeth. Call Rusty, he's The Man. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred. At 10:14 AM 10/14/2009, you wrote: One more question. Rusty doesn't have the special socket - he suggested Assenbachertool but the only one I saw there was a 22mm MB Injector tool - it looks like a hex socket - my memory of the DVs is it having a bunch of teeth around it so a matching socket would be needed. The car is not here so I can't go look - Any idea where I might find/rent this socket? Is it a 22mm socket? ($33 above) Thanks! Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com -- next part -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2400 - Release Date: 09/28/09 05:51:00 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Actually, if you don't replace the copper seals, you usually get one or two that won't re-seal, and then you have running problems. I've replaced two sets so far, but have not replaced the springs. No problems. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
I think I explained it wrong - based on what the service advisor told me. I looked at the top of the IP and it looks like the pressure seals are leaking where they screw into the top of the IP - at least it was wet when I looked at it in the dark last night. I suspect the Service advisor didn't know much about this problem. I looked at the image in the EPC parts program and the seals are called Pressure Valve Seals - (1st time I've messed with this part of the IP - so this is virgin territory for me) . This is what Harry is talking about - but I need to buy the springs since Harry suggested I replace them as well. I have the Pressure Seals (O-Rings and Crush Washers) but not the springs. I ordered the Tie Rod end and MM from Rusty last night - will check to see if he carries the springs. It looks like a special wrench is needed - from my cursory look last night I don't recall if the pressure valves have standard Hex or a special thingie that requires a special wrench to loosen/tighten. If so, where might I find a special tool? Any thoughts ya'll might have about this job are appreciated. I'd like to do this as soon as I gather the needed parts tools. Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:28 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry wrote: Additionally, they tell me the Injector Seals are leaking - not internal seals but the O-Ring and copper washer that fits inside the line where it exits the IP - so the IP doesn't need to be replaced - only the metal injector lines need to come off and a fitting inside the IP removed from each injector exit port. I plan to do it myself and from what little I've seen it doesn't look too bad. Don't know how I would have found these seals were bad! They tell me the seals leak internally cause the problem I described - rough idle at idle after fully warmed up. Boy, this messes with my mind. How can one determine that a delivery valve has an internal leak? I could understand if they had looked at the parts and found some wear but that would have required a tear down. IMHO, if you go in there for any reason, you should replace the o-rings, seals and springs, perform the three step torque procedure and hope for the best. Anyone know how they do that? Thanks Harry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Hi Harry - I looked in the WSM for the procedure for replacing the Pressure Valve Seals (07.1 - 8627) and the only mention of torque is when they say Torque to 35 Nm using special tool 617 589 01 09 00. Perhaps the 3 step procedure you recall is for a different engine? Anyway - I need to locate the special tool as I am sure it will make life much easier. Thanks - LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:28 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry wrote: Additionally, they tell me the Injector Seals are leaking - not internal seals but the O-Ring and copper washer that fits inside the line where it exits the IP - so the IP doesn't need to be replaced - only the metal injector lines need to come off and a fitting inside the IP removed from each injector exit port. I plan to do it myself and from what little I've seen it doesn't look too bad. Don't know how I would have found these seals were bad! They tell me the seals leak internally cause the problem I described - rough idle at idle after fully warmed up. Boy, this messes with my mind. How can one determine that a delivery valve has an internal leak? I could understand if they had looked at the parts and found some wear but that would have required a tear down. IMHO, if you go in there for any reason, you should replace the o-rings, seals and springs, perform the three step torque procedure and hope for the best. Anyone know how they do that? Thanks Harry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Larry, Factory procedure is, for some strange MB reason, only found in the Technical Data Books. It does apply to your car. You need the special socket (call Rusty, get the springs at same time) and a torque wrench, and clearance above each delivery valve holder (the common name for pressure valve) and maybe a torx socket to loosen the holding clamps. Procedure: tighten to 30 Nm, release, tighten to 30 Nm, release, tighten to 35 Nm and lock down. For obvious reasons you want to be clean clean clean when you do this job; I prefer to clean off the top of the IP with brake cleaner and tooth brush, then blow dry with can-o-air, and continue to obsessively clean as I go. (parroting Marshall Booth - Tyler don't read this part) ***Danger: You may warp the IP body during the tightening, which will cause it to make noise and if you don't fix it damage to the pump will occur. For this reason, I'd advise doing one DV at a time so that you can start the car and listen for any new/odd noises from the IP before going on to the next. When you have each DV apart, closely inspect for wear/play, as a worn DV element(s) can also cause a rough idle. Springs: book says to replace them with the copper washer and the O-ring, but many don't replace them and their engine continues to run just fine. They're cheap, I followed the book, the new springs were longer than the old springs I replaced. Later I also did injectors, and now my engine idle is very very smooth. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:21 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Harry - I looked in the WSM for the procedure for replacing the Pressure Valve Seals (07.1 - 8627) and the only mention of torque is when they say Torque to 35 Nm using special tool 617 589 01 09 00. Perhaps the 3 step procedure you recall is for a different engine? Anyway - I need to locate the special tool as I am sure it will make life much easier. Thanks - LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:28 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry wrote: Additionally, they tell me the Injector Seals are leaking - not internal seals but the O-Ring and copper washer that fits inside the line where it exits the IP - so the IP doesn't need to be replaced - only the metal injector lines need to come off and a fitting inside the IP removed from each injector exit port. I plan to do it myself and from what little I've seen it doesn't look too bad. Don't know how I would have found these seals were bad! They tell me the seals leak internally cause the problem I described - rough idle at idle after fully warmed up. Boy, this messes with my mind. How can one determine that a delivery valve has an internal leak? I could understand if they had looked at the parts and found some wear but that would have required a tear down. IMHO, if you go in there for any reason, you should replace the o-rings, seals and springs, perform the three step torque procedure and hope for the best. Anyone know how they do that? Thanks Harry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry wrote: Additionally, they tell me the Injector Seals are leaking - not internal seals but the O-Ring and copper washer that fits inside the line where it exits the IP - so the IP doesn't need to be replaced - only the metal injector lines need to come off and a fitting inside the IP removed from each injector exit port. I plan to do it myself and from what little I've seen it doesn't look too bad. Don't know how I would have found these seals were bad! They tell me the seals leak internally cause the problem I described - rough idle at idle after fully warmed up. Boy, this messes with my mind. How can one determine that a delivery valve has an internal leak? I could understand if they had looked at the parts and found some wear but that would have required a tear down. IMHO, if you go in there for any reason, you should replace the o-rings, seals and springs, perform the three step torque procedure and hope for the best. Anyone know how they do that? Thanks Harry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Hi Max -- Thanks *very* much for your experienced suggestions! As far as your comment Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) That's why I took it to the dealer - while my fuel filters are new, cannot find any air leaks, have treated it for carbon in the pre-chambers (along with 2 years of 100 mi RT at 67-70mph) I can't be sure of the other possibilities. Obviously, I'm hoping the MB Technician knew what he was doing. I will replace the springs and make sure all is clean - you're right about the springs - seems like false economy not to replace them while you're in there. But I have a question about the possibility of warping the IP body when torqing the DVs - you said it's necessary to Fix it. How would I do that? Maybe I'd be better off letting the dealer do it??I cringe at the thought of damaging the IP!! I'm off to get springs and the removal tool from Rusty - Thx agn - It's all *very* helpful!! Even if this doesn't fix the rocking completely, it appears it's something that needs to be done. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry wrote: Additionally, they tell me the Injector Seals are leaking - not internal seals but the O-Ring and copper washer that fits inside the line where it exits the IP - so the IP doesn't need to be replaced - only the metal injector lines need to come off and a fitting inside the IP removed from each injector exit port. I plan to do it myself and from what little I've seen it doesn't look too bad. Don't know how I would have found these seals were bad! They tell me the seals leak internally cause the problem I described - rough idle at idle after fully warmed up. Boy, this messes with my mind. How can one determine that a delivery valve has an internal leak? I could understand if they had looked at the parts and found some wear but that would have required a tear down. IMHO, if you go in there for any reason, you should replace the o-rings, seals and springs, perform the three step torque procedure and hope for the best. Anyone know how they do that? Thanks Harry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Larry, Fix it: loosen and repeat the three step torque procedure. Take a close look at the clearances above the IP, to make sure you can fit a torque wrench in there. On my OM603 the intake manifold makes it a very tight fit. A smaller torque wrench may be required. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Max -- Thanks *very* much for your experienced suggestions! As far as your comment Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) That's why I took it to the dealer - while my fuel filters are new, cannot find any air leaks, have treated it for carbon in the pre-chambers (along with 2 years of 100 mi RT at 67-70mph) I can't be sure of the other possibilities. Obviously, I'm hoping the MB Technician knew what he was doing. I will replace the springs and make sure all is clean - you're right about the springs - seems like false economy not to replace them while you're in there. But I have a question about the possibility of warping the IP body when torqing the DVs - you said it's necessary to Fix it. How would I do that? Maybe I'd be better off letting the dealer do it??I cringe at the thought of damaging the IP!! I'm off to get springs and the removal tool from Rusty - Thx agn - It's all *very* helpful!! Even if this doesn't fix the rocking completely, it appears it's something that needs to be done. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry wrote: Additionally, they tell me the Injector Seals are leaking - not internal seals but the O-Ring and copper washer that fits inside the line where it exits the IP - so the IP doesn't need to be replaced - only the metal injector lines need to come off and a fitting inside the IP removed from each injector exit port. I plan to do it myself and from what little I've seen it doesn't look too bad. Don't know how I would have found these seals were bad! They tell me the seals leak internally cause the problem I described - rough idle at idle after fully warmed up. Boy, this messes with my mind. How can one determine that a delivery valve has an internal leak? I could understand if they had looked at the parts and found some wear but that would have required a tear down. IMHO, if you go in there for any reason, you should replace the o-rings, seals and springs, perform the three step torque procedure and hope for the best. Anyone know how they do that? Thanks Harry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Thx Max - I looked at the procedure in the Tech Data book and wonder why the last torque it says 30Nm + 5Nm - I want to be absolutely sure I do this right - I wonder why they didn't just say 35Nm's? As far as torque wrenches - I have a 3/8 click type as well as a 1/4 drive beam bar (??) type for inch #s. But I'll take your advice and make sure one or the other will work. As far as doing one DV at a time, then starting the engine to test for noises - on my 602-962 engine it looks like I'll need to remove the intake air manifold that comes across the engine from the turbo to the intake. This is over the IP so will need to come off. It's not a he deal I suppose but will make for a longer time needed. If proper torqueing will prevent warping, I would think I can do the 3 step procedure. I've torqued a lot of heads using a multi-stage method followed by a 45 degree movement. Is there something especially tough about properly torquing the DV's? Not being argumentative - just trying to understand -- Thanks again for the help - Larry 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, Fix it: loosen and repeat the three step torque procedure. Take a close look at the clearances above the IP, to make sure you can fit a torque wrench in there. On my OM603 the intake manifold makes it a very tight fit. A smaller torque wrench may be required. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Max -- Thanks *very* much for your experienced suggestions! As far as your comment Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) That's why I took it to the dealer - while my fuel filters are new, cannot find any air leaks, have treated it for carbon in the pre-chambers (along with 2 years of 100 mi RT at 67-70mph) I can't be sure of the other possibilities. Obviously, I'm hoping the MB Technician knew what he was doing. I will replace the springs and make sure all is clean - you're right about the springs - seems like false economy not to replace them while you're in there. But I have a question about the possibility of warping the IP body when torqing the DVs - you said it's necessary to Fix it. How would I do that? Maybe I'd be better off letting the dealer do it??I cringe at the thought of damaging the IP!! I'm off to get springs and the removal tool from Rusty - Thx agn - It's all *very* helpful!! Even if this doesn't fix the rocking completely, it appears it's something that needs to be done. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry wrote: Additionally, they tell me the Injector Seals are leaking - not internal seals but the O-Ring and copper washer that fits inside the line where it exits the IP - so the IP doesn't need to be replaced - only the metal injector lines need to come off and a fitting inside the IP removed from each injector exit port. I plan to do it myself and from what little I've seen it doesn't look too bad
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
One more question. Rusty doesn't have the special socket - he suggested Assenbachertool but the only one I saw there was a 22mm MB Injector tool - it looks like a hex socket - my memory of the DVs is it having a bunch of teeth around it so a matching socket would be needed. The car is not here so I can't go look - Any idea where I might find/rent this socket? Is it a 22mm socket? ($33 above) Thanks! Larry Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, Fix it: loosen and repeat the three step torque procedure. Take a close look at the clearances above the IP, to make sure you can fit a torque wrench in there. On my OM603 the intake manifold makes it a very tight fit. A smaller torque wrench may be required. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Max -- Thanks *very* much for your experienced suggestions! As far as your comment Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) That's why I took it to the dealer - while my fuel filters are new, cannot find any air leaks, have treated it for carbon in the pre-chambers (along with 2 years of 100 mi RT at 67-70mph) I can't be sure of the other possibilities. Obviously, I'm hoping the MB Technician knew what he was doing. I will replace the springs and make sure all is clean - you're right about the springs - seems like false economy not to replace them while you're in there. But I have a question about the possibility of warping the IP body when torqing the DVs - you said it's necessary to Fix it. How would I do that? Maybe I'd be better off letting the dealer do it??I cringe at the thought of damaging the IP!! I'm off to get springs and the removal tool from Rusty - Thx agn - It's all *very* helpful!! Even if this doesn't fix the rocking completely, it appears it's something that needs to be done. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry wrote: Additionally, they tell me the Injector Seals are leaking - not internal seals but the O-Ring and copper washer that fits inside the line where it exits the IP - so the IP doesn't need to be replaced - only the metal injector lines need to come off and a fitting inside the IP removed from each injector exit port. I plan to do it myself and from what little I've seen it doesn't look too bad. Don't know how I would have found these seals were bad! They tell me the seals leak internally cause the problem I described - rough idle at idle after fully warmed up. Boy, this messes with my mind. How can one determine that a delivery valve has an internal leak? I could understand if they had looked at the parts and found some wear but that would have required a tear down. IMHO, if you go in there for any reason, you should replace the o-rings, seals and springs, perform the three step torque procedure and hope for the best. Anyone know how they do that? Thanks Harry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Nothing special about the procedure, it simply is not widely known. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:01 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Thx Max - I looked at the procedure in the Tech Data book and wonder why the last torque it says 30Nm + 5Nm - I want to be absolutely sure I do this right - I wonder why they didn't just say 35Nm's? As far as torque wrenches - I have a 3/8 click type as well as a 1/4 drive beam bar (??) type for inch #s. But I'll take your advice and make sure one or the other will work. As far as doing one DV at a time, then starting the engine to test for noises - on my 602-962 engine it looks like I'll need to remove the intake air manifold that comes across the engine from the turbo to the intake. This is over the IP so will need to come off. It's not a he deal I suppose but will make for a longer time needed. If proper torqueing will prevent warping, I would think I can do the 3 step procedure. I've torqued a lot of heads using a multi-stage method followed by a 45 degree movement. Is there something especially tough about properly torquing the DV's? Not being argumentative - just trying to understand -- Thanks again for the help - Larry 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, Fix it: loosen and repeat the three step torque procedure. Take a close look at the clearances above the IP, to make sure you can fit a torque wrench in there. On my OM603 the intake manifold makes it a very tight fit. A smaller torque wrench may be required. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Max -- Thanks *very* much for your experienced suggestions! As far as your comment Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) That's why I took it to the dealer - while my fuel filters are new, cannot find any air leaks, have treated it for carbon in the pre-chambers (along with 2 years of 100 mi RT at 67-70mph) I can't be sure of the other possibilities. Obviously, I'm hoping the MB Technician knew what he was doing. I will replace the springs and make sure all is clean - you're right about the springs - seems like false economy not to replace them while you're in there. But I have a question about the possibility of warping the IP body when torqing the DVs - you said it's necessary to Fix it. How would I do that? Maybe I'd be better off letting the dealer do it??I cringe at the thought of damaging the IP!! I'm off to get springs and the removal tool from Rusty - Thx agn - It's all *very* helpful!! Even if this doesn't fix the rocking completely, it appears it's something that needs to be done. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry wrote
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
I thought that I bought mine from Rusty, I think the price was about $40. Somehow I managed to order two, sorry but I already sold the spare. I justified the price when my indie charged me $70 to replace one leaking DV O-ring. If Rusty can't get it, recommend your dealer's parts counter. It is a very odd serrated socket, not 12pt but more like 30 pt, only the real deal will work. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:14 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems One more question. Rusty doesn't have the special socket - he suggested Assenbachertool but the only one I saw there was a 22mm MB Injector tool - it looks like a hex socket - my memory of the DVs is it having a bunch of teeth around it so a matching socket would be needed. The car is not here so I can't go look - Any idea where I might find/rent this socket? Is it a 22mm socket? ($33 above) Thanks! Larry Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, Fix it: loosen and repeat the three step torque procedure. Take a close look at the clearances above the IP, to make sure you can fit a torque wrench in there. On my OM603 the intake manifold makes it a very tight fit. A smaller torque wrench may be required. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Max -- Thanks *very* much for your experienced suggestions! As far as your comment Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) That's why I took it to the dealer - while my fuel filters are new, cannot find any air leaks, have treated it for carbon in the pre-chambers (along with 2 years of 100 mi RT at 67-70mph) I can't be sure of the other possibilities. Obviously, I'm hoping the MB Technician knew what he was doing. I will replace the springs and make sure all is clean - you're right about the springs - seems like false economy not to replace them while you're in there. But I have a question about the possibility of warping the IP body when torqing the DVs - you said it's necessary to Fix it. How would I do that? Maybe I'd be better off letting the dealer do it??I cringe at the thought of damaging the IP!! I'm off to get springs and the removal tool from Rusty - Thx agn - It's all *very* helpful!! Even if this doesn't fix the rocking completely, it appears it's something that needs to be done. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry wrote: Additionally, they tell me the Injector Seals are leaking - not internal seals but the O-Ring and copper washer that fits inside the line where it exits the IP - so the IP doesn't need to be replaced - only the metal injector lines need to come off and a fitting inside the IP removed from each injector exit port. I plan to do it myself
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Thanks Max, sounds like it boils down to a last resort thing. If nothing else cures the problem, maybe a DV upgrade will. I've redone them on two SDLs and a 300TD because they were leaking externally. The last SDL was a learning experience, the wife was at a friends house and it would not start. To make a VERY long story short, it turns out that a low fuel tank level + leaking DVs + sloping driveway equals to air in the fuel system. Harry : Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
I actually tackle the DV's as a 3rd or 4th step, last step would be pull all the injectors for cleaning/testing/balancing. Valve adjustment / EDS check is first, then look for air leaks, maybe fuel filters and treat for water in the tank or a diesel purge treatment, then try to narrow it down to a particular cylinder or two, and then start things like swapping injectors. Ah, forgot that one! You can swap around a DV to see if it is the cause of a rough idle. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:40 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Thanks Max, sounds like it boils down to a last resort thing. If nothing else cures the problem, maybe a DV upgrade will. I've redone them on two SDLs and a 300TD because they were leaking externally. The last SDL was a learning experience, the wife was at a friends house and it would not start. To make a VERY long story short, it turns out that a low fuel tank level + leaking DVs + sloping driveway equals to air in the fuel system. Harry : Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Larry, I hesitate to tell you this because I may get flamed :). I used the hold down straps in place of the special tool on my last DV job. I had the tool, but like Max said, it would not fit with my torque wrench (TW). I would place two straps on a DV facing away from the engine and position to leave room in the tightening direction. I then used a crowfoot on my TW to do the procedure. CAUTION, make sure the crowfoot come off the TW at 90 degrees so as not to add length to the TW operation. I used a long extension so my TW was above the intake. The shanks of the straps fit an 11/16 crowfoot (IIRC) and with two of them there is enough thickness for the wrench to get a solid grip. You could use the crowfoot straight out from the TW if you can find the formula to adjust for the additional length. Harry, standing by for grape shot in my flame suit, zipped all the way to my chin. - Original Message - From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems One more question. Rusty doesn't have the special socket - he suggested Assenbachertool but the only one I saw there was a 22mm MB Injector tool - it looks like a hex socket - my memory of the DVs is it having a bunch of teeth around it so a matching socket would be needed. The car is not here so I can't go look - Any idea where I might find/rent this socket? Is it a 22mm socket? ($33 above) Thanks! Larry Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, Fix it: loosen and repeat the three step torque procedure. Take a close look at the clearances above the IP, to make sure you can fit a torque wrench in there. On my OM603 the intake manifold makes it a very tight fit. A smaller torque wrench may be required. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Max -- Thanks *very* much for your experienced suggestions! As far as your comment Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) That's why I took it to the dealer - while my fuel filters are new, cannot find any air leaks, have treated it for carbon in the pre-chambers (along with 2 years of 100 mi RT at 67-70mph) I can't be sure of the other possibilities. Obviously, I'm hoping the MB Technician knew what he was doing. I will replace the springs and make sure all is clean - you're right about the springs - seems like false economy not to replace them while you're in there. But I have a question about the possibility of warping the IP body when torqing the DVs - you said it's necessary to Fix it. How would I do that? Maybe I'd be better off letting the dealer do it??I cringe at the thought of damaging the IP!! I'm off to get springs and the removal tool from Rusty - Thx agn - It's all *very* helpful!! Even if this doesn't fix the rocking completely, it appears it's something that needs to be done. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
2nd confession of the day, I used the same method but without the torque wrench the first time I played with a DV. I had no idea what I was doing, angels must have been there that day because no harm was done. I think I used a vice grips and judgment to snug the DV down. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, I hesitate to tell you this because I may get flamed :). I used the hold down straps in place of the special tool on my last DV job. I had the tool, but like Max said, it would not fit with my torque wrench (TW). I would place two straps on a DV facing away from the engine and position to leave room in the tightening direction. I then used a crowfoot on my TW to do the procedure. CAUTION, make sure the crowfoot come off the TW at 90 degrees so as not to add length to the TW operation. I used a long extension so my TW was above the intake. The shanks of the straps fit an 11/16 crowfoot (IIRC) and with two of them there is enough thickness for the wrench to get a solid grip. You could use the crowfoot straight out from the TW if you can find the formula to adjust for the additional length. Harry, standing by for grape shot in my flame suit, zipped all the way to my chin. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
How do you check the EDS without the special gizmos? LarryT Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:45 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems I actually tackle the DV's as a 3rd or 4th step, last step would be pull all the injectors for cleaning/testing/balancing. Valve adjustment / EDS check is first, then look for air leaks, maybe fuel filters and treat for water in the tank or a diesel purge treatment, then try to narrow it down to a particular cylinder or two, and then start things like swapping injectors. Ah, forgot that one! You can swap around a DV to see if it is the cause of a rough idle. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:40 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Thanks Max, sounds like it boils down to a last resort thing. If nothing else cures the problem, maybe a DV upgrade will. I've redone them on two SDLs and a 300TD because they were leaking externally. The last SDL was a learning experience, the wife was at a friends house and it would not start. To make a VERY long story short, it turns out that a low fuel tank level + leaking DVs + sloping driveway equals to air in the fuel system. Harry : Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Thx Harry - I appreciate you telling your secrets ;-) What engine were you working on? I have a 602-962 Larry Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, I hesitate to tell you this because I may get flamed :). I used the hold down straps in place of the special tool on my last DV job. I had the tool, but like Max said, it would not fit with my torque wrench (TW). I would place two straps on a DV facing away from the engine and position to leave room in the tightening direction. I then used a crowfoot on my TW to do the procedure. CAUTION, make sure the crowfoot come off the TW at 90 degrees so as not to add length to the TW operation. I used a long extension so my TW was above the intake. The shanks of the straps fit an 11/16 crowfoot (IIRC) and with two of them there is enough thickness for the wrench to get a solid grip. You could use the crowfoot straight out from the TW if you can find the formula to adjust for the additional length. Harry, standing by for grape shot in my flame suit, zipped all the way to my chin. - Original Message - From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems One more question. Rusty doesn't have the special socket - he suggested Assenbachertool but the only one I saw there was a 22mm MB Injector tool - it looks like a hex socket - my memory of the DVs is it having a bunch of teeth around it so a matching socket would be needed. The car is not here so I can't go look - Any idea where I might find/rent this socket? Is it a 22mm socket? ($33 above) Thanks! Larry Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, Fix it: loosen and repeat the three step torque procedure. Take a close look at the clearances above the IP, to make sure you can fit a torque wrench in there. On my OM603 the intake manifold makes it a very tight fit. A smaller torque wrench may be required. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Max -- Thanks *very* much for your experienced suggestions! As far as your comment Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) That's why I took it to the dealer - while my fuel filters are new, cannot find any air leaks, have treated it for carbon in the pre-chambers (along with 2 years of 100 mi RT at 67-70mph) I can't be sure of the other possibilities. Obviously, I'm hoping the MB Technician knew what he was doing. I will replace the springs and make sure all is clean - you're right about the springs - seems like false economy not to replace them while you're in there. But I have a question about the possibility of warping the IP body when torqing the DVs - you said it's necessary to Fix it. How would I do that? Maybe I'd be better off letting the dealer do it??I cringe at the thought of damaging the IP!! I'm off to get springs and the removal tool from Rusty - Thx agn - It's all *very* helpful!! Even if this doesn't fix the rocking completely, it appears it's something that needs to be done. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Yikes Max!! Vice grips You devil! LarryT ;-) Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:33 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems 2nd confession of the day, I used the same method but without the torque wrench the first time I played with a DV. I had no idea what I was doing, angels must have been there that day because no harm was done. I think I used a vice grips and judgment to snug the DV down. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, I hesitate to tell you this because I may get flamed :). I used the hold down straps in place of the special tool on my last DV job. I had the tool, but like Max said, it would not fit with my torque wrench (TW). I would place two straps on a DV facing away from the engine and position to leave room in the tightening direction. I then used a crowfoot on my TW to do the procedure. CAUTION, make sure the crowfoot come off the TW at 90 degrees so as not to add length to the TW operation. I used a long extension so my TW was above the intake. The shanks of the straps fit an 11/16 crowfoot (IIRC) and with two of them there is enough thickness for the wrench to get a solid grip. You could use the crowfoot straight out from the TW if you can find the formula to adjust for the additional length. Harry, standing by for grape shot in my flame suit, zipped all the way to my chin. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
On my car, idle was sometimes terrible but sometimes perfect. I suspect the wiring harness is deteriorating. I simply unplugged the connection at the back of the IP and voila! The idle was smooth but very low. Used the mechanical adjustment to bring it up to about 650 rpm. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 12:35 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems How do you check the EDS without the special gizmos? LarryT Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:45 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems I actually tackle the DV's as a 3rd or 4th step, last step would be pull all the injectors for cleaning/testing/balancing. Valve adjustment / EDS check is first, then look for air leaks, maybe fuel filters and treat for water in the tank or a diesel purge treatment, then try to narrow it down to a particular cylinder or two, and then start things like swapping injectors. Ah, forgot that one! You can swap around a DV to see if it is the cause of a rough idle. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 10:40 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Thanks Max, sounds like it boils down to a last resort thing. If nothing else cures the problem, maybe a DV upgrade will. I've redone them on two SDLs and a 300TD because they were leaking externally. The last SDL was a learning experience, the wife was at a friends house and it would not start. To make a VERY long story short, it turns out that a low fuel tank level + leaking DVs + sloping driveway equals to air in the fuel system. Harry : Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
It was a 603 on a 300 SDL - Original Message - From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Thx Harry - I appreciate you telling your secrets ;-) What engine were you working on? I have a 602-962 Larry Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: harry watkins harry...@bellsouth.net Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 11:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, I hesitate to tell you this because I may get flamed :). I used the hold down straps in place of the special tool on my last DV job. I had the tool, but like Max said, it would not fit with my torque wrench (TW). I would place two straps on a DV facing away from the engine and position to leave room in the tightening direction. I then used a crowfoot on my TW to do the procedure. CAUTION, make sure the crowfoot come off the TW at 90 degrees so as not to add length to the TW operation. I used a long extension so my TW was above the intake. The shanks of the straps fit an 11/16 crowfoot (IIRC) and with two of them there is enough thickness for the wrench to get a solid grip. You could use the crowfoot straight out from the TW if you can find the formula to adjust for the additional length. Harry, standing by for grape shot in my flame suit, zipped all the way to my chin. - Original Message - From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems One more question. Rusty doesn't have the special socket - he suggested Assenbachertool but the only one I saw there was a 22mm MB Injector tool - it looks like a hex socket - my memory of the DVs is it having a bunch of teeth around it so a matching socket would be needed. The car is not here so I can't go look - Any idea where I might find/rent this socket? Is it a 22mm socket? ($33 above) Thanks! Larry Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, Fix it: loosen and repeat the three step torque procedure. Take a close look at the clearances above the IP, to make sure you can fit a torque wrench in there. On my OM603 the intake manifold makes it a very tight fit. A smaller torque wrench may be required. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Max -- Thanks *very* much for your experienced suggestions! As far as your comment Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) That's why I took it to the dealer - while my fuel filters are new, cannot find any air leaks, have treated it for carbon in the pre-chambers (along with 2 years of 100 mi RT at 67-70mph) I can't be sure of the other possibilities. Obviously, I'm hoping the MB Technician knew what he was doing. I will replace the springs and make sure all is clean - you're right about the springs - seems like false economy not to replace them while you're in there. But I have a question about the possibility of warping the IP body when torqing the DVs - you said it's necessary to Fix it. How would I do that? Maybe I'd be better off letting the dealer do it??I cringe at the thought of damaging the IP!! I'm off to get springs and the removal tool from Rusty - Thx agn - It's all *very* helpful!! Even if this doesn't fix the rocking completely, it appears it's something that needs to be done. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Harry, Rough idle
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Larry, et al. The socket,(from Rusty I think), that I have is made by Kokon from Japan. P/N 4133. 18mm inside with lots of fine teeth. Call Rusty, he's The Man. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred. At 10:14 AM 10/14/2009, you wrote: One more question. Rusty doesn't have the special socket - he suggested Assenbachertool but the only one I saw there was a 22mm MB Injector tool - it looks like a hex socket - my memory of the DVs is it having a bunch of teeth around it so a matching socket would be needed. The car is not here so I can't go look - Any idea where I might find/rent this socket? Is it a 22mm socket? ($33 above) Thanks! Larry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
samstagsales.com LarryT wrote: One more question. Rusty doesn't have the special socket - he suggested Assenbachertool but the only one I saw there was a 22mm MB Injector tool - it looks like a hex socket - my memory of the DVs is it having a bunch of teeth around it so a matching socket would be needed. The car is not here so I can't go look - Any idea where I might find/rent this socket? Is it a 22mm socket? ($33 above) Thanks! Larry Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, Fix it: loosen and repeat the three step torque procedure. Take a close look at the clearances above the IP, to make sure you can fit a torque wrench in there. On my OM603 the intake manifold makes it a very tight fit. A smaller torque wrench may be required. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Max -- Thanks *very* much for your experienced suggestions! As far as your comment Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) That's why I took it to the dealer - while my fuel filters are new, cannot find any air leaks, have treated it for carbon in the pre-chambers (along with 2 years of 100 mi RT at 67-70mph) I can't be sure of the other possibilities. Obviously, I'm hoping the MB Technician knew what he was doing. I will replace the springs and make sure all is clean - you're right about the springs - seems like false economy not to replace them while you're in there. But I have a question about the possibility of warping the IP body when torqing the DVs - you said it's necessary to Fix it. How would I do that? Maybe I'd be better off letting the dealer do it??I cringe at the thought of damaging the IP!! I'm off to get springs and the removal tool from Rusty - Thx agn - It's all *very* helpful!! Even if this doesn't fix the rocking completely, it appears it's something that needs to be done. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:29 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry wrote: Additionally, they tell me the Injector Seals are leaking - not internal seals but the O-Ring and copper washer that fits inside the line where it exits the IP - so the IP doesn't need to be replaced - only the metal injector lines need to come off and a fitting inside the IP removed from each injector exit port. I plan to do it myself and from what little I've seen it doesn't look too bad. Don't know how I would have found these seals were bad! They tell me the seals leak internally cause the problem I described - rough idle at idle after fully warmed up. Boy, this messes with my mind. How can one determine that a delivery valve has an internal leak? I could understand if they had looked at the parts and found some wear but that would have required a tear down. IMHO, if you go in there for any reason, you should replace the o-rings, seals and springs, perform the three step torque procedure and hope for the best. Anyone know how they do that? Thanks Harry ___ http
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
I've replaced the DVs on three engines now - two 603s and one 602. I removed enough to get plenty of room, and know that the intake manifold ws off of at least one, but don't remember about the other two. Used the special socket and a standard Sears clicking TW - no problems with any of them. Might have been blind luck, but following the procedure worked great. On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 9:00 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Thx Max - I looked at the procedure in the Tech Data book and wonder why the last torque it says 30Nm + 5Nm - I want to be absolutely sure I do this right - I wonder why they didn't just say 35Nm's? As far as torque wrenches - I have a 3/8 click type as well as a 1/4 drive beam bar (??) type for inch #s. But I'll take your advice and make sure one or the other will work. As far as doing one DV at a time, then starting the engine to test for noises - on my 602-962 engine it looks like I'll need to remove the intake air manifold that comes across the engine from the turbo to the intake. This is over the IP so will need to come off. It's not a he deal I suppose but will make for a longer time needed. If proper torqueing will prevent warping, I would think I can do the 3 step procedure. I've torqued a lot of heads using a multi-stage method followed by a 45 degree movement. Is there something especially tough about properly torquing the DV's? Not being argumentative - just trying to understand -- Thanks again for the help - Larry 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Larry, Fix it: loosen and repeat the three step torque procedure. Take a close look at the clearances above the IP, to make sure you can fit a torque wrench in there. On my OM603 the intake manifold makes it a very tight fit. A smaller torque wrench may be required. Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:54 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Hi Max -- Thanks *very* much for your experienced suggestions! As far as your comment Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) That's why I took it to the dealer - while my fuel filters are new, cannot find any air leaks, have treated it for carbon in the pre-chambers (along with 2 years of 100 mi RT at 67-70mph) I can't be sure of the other possibilities. Obviously, I'm hoping the MB Technician knew what he was doing. I will replace the springs and make sure all is clean - you're right about the springs - seems like false economy not to replace them while you're in there. But I have a question about the possibility of warping the IP body when torqing the DVs - you said it's necessary to Fix it. How would I do that? Maybe I'd be better off letting the dealer do it??I cringe at the thought of damaging the IP!! I'm off to get springs and the removal tool from Rusty - Thx agn - It's all *very* helpful!! Even if this doesn't fix the rocking completely, it appears it's something that needs to be done. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 7:43 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems Harry, Rough idle can be caused by internal leak at copper washer OR by worn elements inside the delivery valve. I suspect that you really have to know what you are looking for to identify worn elements inside the DV; new DV are pricey, but for the novice a strategy may be to purchase one and use it for comparison purposes? Obviously there are other causes for rough idle that also need to be investigated (fuel filters, air leaks, bad injectors, carbon in pre-chambers, valve adjustment on older engines, EDS problems on newer engines, compression, etc.) Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of harry watkins Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:29 AM
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Hi Gang - I ended up taking my 91 300D to the local MB dealer - as in the pas they have provided spectacular service. I had them confirm the condition of my motor mounts - as suggested by those on the list, one MM was partially collapsed. Fortunately, only the drivers side needs to be replaced - which I'll do as soon as I get some parts from Rusty. Additionally, they tell me the Injector Seals are leaking - not internal seals but the O-Ring and copper washer that fits inside the line where it exits the IP - so the IP doesn't need to be replaced - only the metal injector lines need to come off and a fitting inside the IP removed from each injector exit port. I plan to do it myself and from what little I've seen it doesn't look too bad. Don't know how I would have found these seals were bad! They tell me the seals leak internally cause the problem I described - rough idle at idle after fully warmed up. So it sounds like a combination of the IP seals and the MM. We'll soon see how accurate they are. ;-) They also told me one of my Tie Rod end seals is damaged and the grease is gone. But they didn't try to suggest I let them do the repairs. Which I liked. I replaced both Tie Rod Assys. last year IIRC so I was surprised to hear a grease boot had failed. Anyway, I'll look in my records to see when I replaced them and go from there - again - no problems. All this is FYI in case you are experiencing similar symptoms. LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:13 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Thx Pter - Very informative - will call Rusty if I need to order them. I will check condition to be sure. I know they are not leaking but the measurement will tell. If I need to change them it sounds like a god idea to soak the fasteners with some penetrating oil. A shooting friend gave me a 1/2 quart (!!) of Kroil which should do the trick. Thx agn for the info - LarryT 91 300D Does your business accept or need to accept V/MC/AE/Dis? We have the best rates 0% Interest Business loans. Visit: http://www.merchantreferralsolutions.com/A365706 -- From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 9:56 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Much easier than the old ones. Chief difficulties are access to the top bolt and dropping the lower hexhead into the frame while installing. Loosen top and bottom bolts -- on the diesel, the right side is a pain since the mount is under the turbo and is only accessable from underneath with a flex-head ratchet, and it's usually also stuck. Lower bolts require dropping the lower sound encapsulation panel (usually one piece on the gassers, two on the diesel, and both have to come out). Jack engine, remove both bolts and remove heat shield and mount. New mount will usually be somewhat taller than the old one, so jack the engine some more. Mounts are keyed into the engine carrier. Start bottom bolt first, then top bolt. Helps to leave some slack so you can move then around, and it's usually easier to get both bolts started while underneath. This is required on the W201 as you cannot access the top bolt from above. Screw bottom bolt up lightely, lower jack, tighten both bolts fully. Remember to put the heat shield back where it was. On the gasser, you may have to remove the bottom bolt on the left side and jack the engine up quite a bit to reach the top bolt, as it's under the intake and when the mounts are really flat, it's quite difficult to get a wrench on it, even with a 2' extension! Fairly easy to reach when new. Easy to check condition, too -- if there is less than 3/4 inch or so between the bottom of the hemispherical part's lower edge and the frame, or you find thick fluid leaking out, they are shot. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To
Re: [MBZ] W124 Motor Mounts Related Problems
Larry wrote: Additionally, they tell me the Injector Seals are leaking - not internal seals but the O-Ring and copper washer that fits inside the line where it exits the IP - so the IP doesn't need to be replaced - only the metal injector lines need to come off and a fitting inside the IP removed from each injector exit port. I plan to do it myself and from what little I've seen it doesn't look too bad. Don't know how I would have found these seals were bad! They tell me the seals leak internally cause the problem I described - rough idle at idle after fully warmed up. Boy, this messes with my mind. How can one determine that a delivery valve has an internal leak? I could understand if they had looked at the parts and found some wear but that would have required a tear down. IMHO, if you go in there for any reason, you should replace the o-rings, seals and springs, perform the three step torque procedure and hope for the best. Anyone know how they do that? Thanks Harry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
