Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
On 2/6/07, John Freer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So all this talk about Asian cars going 100K miles without maintanence can not be true. Right off the bat, you have to change out the timing belt every 60K or so miles. On 2/6/07, David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Frederick wrote: Japanese cars DO require less work than American ones -- I've had way too many friends who have driven them hundreds of thousands of miles with nothing but tires, oil changes, and brakes -- and sometimes not even brakes. Well, My results may vary greatly, however I'm willing to pretend like I know everything anyway. My last few cars have been foreign in the fact that they have foreign names. I am currently driving a 1994 Mitsubishi Diamante LS with 220,000+ miles out of a Gas engine that I have *flogged* the last few thousand. (I think it had 205K when I bought it last year). The car hasn't had much in the way of quality service either. The car I drove before that was a 1994 Mitsubishi Galant LS. Took that one to 214,000+ miles before I sold it to my brother, who promptly decided it was a race car and destroyed the transmission. It was also a gas engine, that had been truly flogged by the college bound owner that owned it before me and had driven a valve through the head. New head and gaskets and I took it from roughly 170ish to 214 before the sale to bro and subsequent bombing. Before that I owned a 93 Toyota Corolla that my wife *hated* (she drove it the most) and was before we were married. It had no power options of any kind, and was around 280,000 when we sold it to buy the 94 Galant. Now she drives an 03 Mitsubishi Galant ES with 80ish K on the clock. I'm not sure the new engine is up to the same quality as the older engines, then again it's roughly the same displacement 4 cyl from the 94 in a heavy, larger car. So that may have something to do with it to, but it does have a slight leak somewhere. Haven't tracked it down yet. Haven't really tired either though. I haven't ever changed any of their timing belts, but I do know that if they ever *do* go, instant heads :) I just don't have the money to keep up with the factory recommended maintenance. Man I really want an old pre 80's Rear wheel drive beast that I can work on myself .. transverse engine design is horrible. Without a lift or someway to crawl around under the Diamante while I lift the V6 up in the engine bay, I can not change my own plugs or most of the belts. Designed to be worked on by dealers only. *sighs* One day I'll own a 108 . then I should only need a lift to do a major transmission change, cause the engine will come through the top instead of being design larger than the hood so it has to come out from bottom only. Ed -- Knowledge is power... Power Corrupts. Study hard... Be Evil.
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
Ed: The older MB bodies were dropped onto front subframe (shades of days when there was a full frame underneatch, pre-1053!). Starting in 1976 with the W123 chassis, all engines were installed from above (the main reason for the extra wide opening hood). However, all MB engine/transmissions come out the top nicely. Not true of Audi or may other frontwheel drive cars, including GM. Peter
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
Actually, 1953.. On Feb 6, 2007, at 6:21 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: Ed: The older MB bodies were dropped onto front subframe (shades of days when there was a full frame underneatch, pre-1053!). Starting in 1976 with the W123 chassis, all engines were installed from above (the main reason for the extra wide opening hood). However, all MB engine/transmissions come out the top nicely. Not true of Audi or may other frontwheel drive cars, including GM. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: However, all MB engine/transmissions come out the top nicely. I have to say that when I pulled the engine and tranny from my W110, it was a VERY tight squeeze. Putting it back, I installed the tranny then dropped in the engine -- much easier. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
It all depends. I certainly didn't think the alternator in my 83' 300D was easy to remove. It wasn't THAT bad, but it required a few extra pieces be removed. My Subaru was just like two bolts from the top... The thermostat was easier on the sube since I didn't have to squash my hand in between fan blades or what not... The cv shaft... mmm, could go either way... The Benz is a pain to remove the diff cover and pull the C-clip, but the Sube had a stupid roll pin. I much preferred my Hondas and Isuzus which simply had circlips that you just popped out with a little prying. Brakes are easier on the Sube. Close call, but you don't have to monkey with wheel bearings on the front rotors. Spark plugs are in better locations than glow plugs on the ones I've had... I'd rate the Benz pretty easy as far as mechanical work goes, but I would have to give the nod to the Subaru. The Sube has 220K miles and has not had many issues, but then it is about 14 years younger than the Benz... Levi On 2/6/07, David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Frederick wrote: Japanese cars DO require less work than American ones -- I've had way too many friends who have driven them hundreds of thousands of miles with nothing but tires, oil changes, and brakes -- and sometimes not even brakes. They can be a pain to work on when they *do* break, though. If you ever have to change the alternator in a Honda Civic you'll see what I mean. Hint: step 1 is remove driver's side drive axle. I think they way Honda stamps the required socket size on the head of each bolt is a rather nice touch, though. If it says 10, you reach for the 10mm socket. No guessing required. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
It all depends. I certainly didn't think the alternator in my 83' 300D was easy to remove. It wasn't THAT bad, but it required a few extra pieces be removed. My Subaru was just like two bolts from the top... I've found nothing easier to work on than the Frankenheap, a 1972 200D (W115). The Falcon, and the old Chevy pickup are as easy, on none of these vehicles is anything in the way of anything else. (We will ignore the dratted blower motor, since it still works fine.) Glow plugs as easy as spark plugs on an old gasser, etc. Throw AC in, or a V8, and things start getting a bit harder. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
Jim typed: I've found nothing easier to work on than the Frankenheap, a 1972 200D (W115). The Falcon,... The thing I always liked about my Falcon was how you could look under the hood and see more driveway than engine. Bob R.
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
Amen Brother! On 2/7/07, Bob Rentfro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim typed: I've found nothing easier to work on than the Frankenheap, a 1972 200D (W115). The Falcon,... The thing I always liked about my Falcon was how you could look under the hood and see more driveway than engine. Bob R. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Rory Morrison Oroville, WA 1985 300SD 1982 300TD
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
Then a company did an independent study found a Volvo to be no safer than any other car the same size. When they uncovered this fact, they searched further discovered that the typical Volvo owner was a more conservative driver than a typical owner of the other brands! This led to the realization that it was the Volvo driver, not the Volvo that made the Volvo the safest car in the world! That's right, the safest car in the world's safety record had nothing at all to do with the car itself! Right on. How many traffic backups do we see led by a Wolwo wagons poking along, driven by a pipe smoking tweed capped tree hugger? Used to be Peugeot diesels until they all went to the crushers. And Ramblers before that. Boy, does that date me. The myth of the Asian labeled cars thought to be so reliable is partially due to their drivers' inability to recognize a defect or mechanical problem until the thing smokes to a halt. Oooo, I never have to spend a penny on my Corolla, Camry or whatever RLE
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
Well, not exactly true, as Volvo and Benz used to have much better crash testing data than other brands. Funny, I never see Benz or Volvo cars in crash tests anymore, wonder what that's all about, eh? Japanese cars DO require less work than American ones -- I've had way too many friends who have driven them hundreds of thousands of miles with nothing but tires, oil changes, and brakes -- and sometimes not even brakes. They don't leak oil, as a rule, either, until old and abused, unlike many 80's GM cars, that dribbled from the factory. Peter
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
Well, I don't think I'd call it a myth. The fact that the car will go 300-400K miles with almost no maintenance before smoking to a halt is much preferable to an american car going 100K before smoking to a halt... I haven't dealt with enough european stuff to compare, though I know my Mercedes smokes to a start more than to a halt... (: Levi On 2/6/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The myth of the Asian labeled cars thought to be so reliable is partially due to their drivers' inability to recognize a defect or mechanical problem until the thing smokes to a halt. Oooo, I never have to spend a penny on my Corolla, Camry or whatever RLE
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
Levi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Agreed. Or compared to an old Mercedes. My 83' 300D doesn't seem to use THAT much oil, (it's been on M1 15-50 for a while now) but it is VERY serious about marking it's territory anywhere that it parks. In multiple spots. I definitely don't need to worry about weeds growing under the engine in my gravel driveway. Odd. My 300D never leaked, even after I switched to Mobil-1 and used it consistently for a few years. Then the correct M1 began to be hard to find locally and I so I've been using Delo for the last couple of changes -- and now I have a couple of drops on the garage floor every morning. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
I haven't noticed any change since I got the car and that had generic not even diesel approved oil in it, then I used the Delco, then a Synthetic blend and now M1 over the course of maybe 30K miles. It only seems to be a few drops at a time, but it sure seems to add up faster than ANYTHING else I've had... Levi On 2/6/07, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Levi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Agreed. Or compared to an old Mercedes. My 83' 300D doesn't seem to use THAT much oil, (it's been on M1 15-50 for a while now) but it is VERY serious about marking it's territory anywhere that it parks. In multiple spots. I definitely don't need to worry about weeds growing under the engine in my gravel driveway. Odd. My 300D never leaked, even after I switched to Mobil-1 and used it consistently for a few years. Then the correct M1 began to be hard to find locally and I so I've been using Delo for the last couple of changes -- and now I have a couple of drops on the garage floor every morning. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
Couldn't agree with you more. My wife complained so bitterly about a 97 Sable that caused some minor problems that we traded it for a 98 Toyota Avalon. Very nice car in the sense of bells and whistles but no more reliable than the Sable so far as I can tell. It has just over 100K Kilos so about 62K miles on it and it needs all four struts and a steering rack. The hvac has had some expensive parts and the driver's window won't move. Not any better than the Mercury despite being a Toyota. Don't know if it makes a lot of difference but the Avalon is built in the USA. We also have 95 4Runner that was built in Japan. It has had its share of issues. The mileage is higher on it (close to 200K Kilos) and the engine is fine but we have had issues with the manual transmission and clutch as well as the seals in the rearend. However the worst part is the rust on the body panels. Holes over each wheel arch and the tailgate is bad. It might run for ever but it will look like crap while it does so. I have since bought 2 Ford pickups and had very few problems with them so far. I hope that last statement remains true. Randy -Original Message- The myth of the Asian labeled cars thought to be so reliable is partially due to their drivers' inability to recognize a defect or mechanical problem until the thing smokes to a halt. Oooo, I never have to spend a penny on my Corolla, Camry or whatever RLE
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We also have 95 4Runner that was built in Japan. It has had its share of issues. The mileage is higher on it (close to 200K Kilos) and the engine is fine but we have had issues with the manual transmission and clutch as well as the the worst part is the rust on the body panels. Holes over each wheel arch and the tailgate is bad. It might run for ever but it will look like crap while it does so. Toyota trucks, until the late 1990s, are notorious for rusting out body sheet metal, especially the bed/tailgate. I had an '87 that looked like swiss cheese when I sold it, but it started and ran flawlessly. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
Peter Frederick wrote: Japanese cars DO require less work than American ones -- I've had way too many friends who have driven them hundreds of thousands of miles with nothing but tires, oil changes, and brakes -- and sometimes not even brakes. They can be a pain to work on when they *do* break, though. If you ever have to change the alternator in a Honda Civic you'll see what I mean. Hint: step 1 is remove driver's side drive axle. I think they way Honda stamps the required socket size on the head of each bolt is a rather nice touch, though. If it says 10, you reach for the 10mm socket. No guessing required.
Re: [MBZ] Wolwo safety
So all this talk about Asian cars going 100K miles without maintanence can not be true. Right off the bat, you have to change out the timing belt every 60K or so miles. On 2/6/07, David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Frederick wrote: Japanese cars DO require less work than American ones -- I've had way too many friends who have driven them hundreds of thousands of miles with nothing but tires, oil changes, and brakes -- and sometimes not even brakes. They can be a pain to work on when they *do* break, though. If you ever have to change the alternator in a Honda Civic you'll see what I mean. Hint: step 1 is remove driver's side drive axle. I think they way Honda stamps the required socket size on the head of each bolt is a rather nice touch, though. If it says 10, you reach for the 10mm socket. No guessing required. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
