Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
That ain't right... Bob R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Hurst Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 11:36 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed some of you might be familiar with mike trei from his contributions to the star magazine or from other publications he has written for. mike lives in manhattan for about $400 a month in an apartment his family has been in since the 1920s. On Dec 28, 2007 1:15 PM, andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Rent controls helped a lot... > > On Dec 28, 2007 12:09 PM, Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > wasn't that long ago that ordinary people could like in manhattan if > they > > wanted to. > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 11:54 AM, andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > Hursty et al, > > > I grew up in NYC near Times Square and before my voice changed > > > sang in > > the > > > boy's choir at the Met Opera, which was on 40th street and 7th > > > avenue (garment district) in those days. My parents didn't think > > > twice about letting me find my way home on the subway or bus after > > > evening performances, usually between 10 and 11 pm. I did this > > > between the ages of 7 and > 11. > > > It > > > might have helped that my older brother had done the same thing > > > for a couple years before I started singing. Throughout > > > elementary school and > junior > > > high I basically went everywhere on my own or with a friend. By > > > the > > time > > > I > > > reached high school things had changed and I was very careful > > > about > > going > > > on > > > the subways after dark. > > > > > > ALS > > > > > > Diesel content: Our only car was a 1945 Pontiac that we purchased > > > for $100, kept a year, and then sold in 1956 for $25.00. > > > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 10:49 AM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Speaking of the Superintendent position - here in Chesterfield > County > > Va > > > > there have been some controversaries when a Super was "released" > > > > - > > when > > > > actually they were fired for cause. Yet the board voted to pay > > > > the contract - sometimes amounting to millions of $$'s/ > > > > > > > > When it happened the 2nd or 3rd time the citizens raised so much > cain > > > that > > > > they found a reason to stop making payments/ > > > > > > > > I wonder if this happens in other areas? > > > > > > > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for > > > > Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results > > > > http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > > > > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > > > > . > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > From: "Mitch Haley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > > > > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:17 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LarryT wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> I have heard stories that the bureaucracy at schools is fat > > > > >> with administrators making $100k + salaries - any truth to that? > > > > > > > > > > Teachers around here (Michigan) seem to make $40k-100k > > > > > depending on district, experience, and education. (master's > > > > > degree is about an 8=12k automatic raise IIRC) Principals > > > > > start a bit under a top teacher, and then go up to $150k or > > > > > so. The real money is in the Superintendent's wages. > > > > > > > > > > As a teacher friend told me, try getting a copy of a 1960's > > > > > school district budget. See what percentage of the total is > > > > > non-teaching payroll and benefits. Then get the current > > > > > budget, calculate the same percentage, and compare the two. > > > > > Useless payroll has grown by leaps and bounds in the last > > > > > 30-40 years. In 1975, my
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
yes, he hangs out with the m100 crowd. On Dec 28, 2007 1:56 PM, LWB250 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Why does that name sounds familiar? He's not one of > the M100 bunch, is he? > > Dan > > > --- Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > some of you might be familiar with mike trei from > > his contributions to the > > star magazine or from other publications he has > > written for. mike lives in > > manhattan for about $400 a month in an apartment his > > family has been in > > since the 1920s. > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 1:15 PM, andrew strasfogel > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Rent controls helped a lot... > > > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 12:09 PM, Gary Hurst > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > wasn't that long ago that ordinary people could > > like in manhattan if > > > they > > > > wanted to. > > > > > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 11:54 AM, andrew strasfogel > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hursty et al, > > > > > I grew up in NYC near Times Square and before > > my voice changed sang in > > > > the > > > > > boy's choir at the Met Opera, which was on > > 40th street and 7th avenue > > > > > (garment district) in those days. My parents > > didn't think twice about > > > > > letting me find my way home on the subway or > > bus after evening > > > > > performances, > > > > > usually between 10 and 11 pm. I did this > > between the ages of 7 and > > > 11. > > > > > It > > > > > might have helped that my older brother had > > done the same thing for a > > > > > couple > > > > > years before I started singing. Throughout > > elementary school and > > > junior > > > > > high I basically went everywhere on my own or > > with a friend. By the > > > > time > > > > > I > > > > > reached high school things had changed and I > > was very careful about > > > > going > > > > > on > > > > > the subways after dark. > > > > > > > > > > ALS > > > > > > > > > > Diesel content: Our only car was a 1945 > > Pontiac that we purchased for > > > > > $100, > > > > > kept a year, and then sold in 1956 for $25.00. > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 10:49 AM, LarryT > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Speaking of the Superintendent position - > > here in Chesterfield > > > County > > > > Va > > > > > > there have been some controversaries when a > > Super was "released" - > > > > when > > > > > > actually they were fired for cause. Yet the > > board voted to pay the > > > > > > contract - sometimes amounting to millions > > of $$'s/ > > > > > > > > > > > > When it happened the 2nd or 3rd time the > > citizens raised so much > > > cain > > > > > that > > > > > > they found a reason to stop making payments/ > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder if this happens in other areas? > > > > > > > > > > > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > > > > > > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber > > Parts > > > > > > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > > > > > > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > > > > > > Weber Carb Info > > http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > > > From: "Mitch Haley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:17 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LarryT wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I have heard stories that the bureaucracy > > at schools is fat with > > > >
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
I'm lucky to work for a principal who is very "hands off" unless you need her. She's also someone who you know will back you up, no matter what, as long as you arrived at the decision you made in a logical manner. There are too many administrators, who, faced with an angry parent, will cave in to avoid a confrontation or to have a conflict escalated to a higher authority. Parents know this, so if they take someone on they know to expect to get their way in many cases. This leaves you, the teacher in question, looking like an ass, not to mention swinging in the wind in a figurative sense. Your authority is now compromised, meaning you have lost control of your classroom. It's a sad thing, and even more so, it's sad because it's not the kids, it the parents. Dan --- Fmiser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That's a good summary of much of the public school > system. > > And so if the rules have no teeth, it's anarchy. > > -- Philip Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
Why does that name sounds familiar? He's not one of the M100 bunch, is he? Dan --- Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > some of you might be familiar with mike trei from > his contributions to the > star magazine or from other publications he has > written for. mike lives in > manhattan for about $400 a month in an apartment his > family has been in > since the 1920s. > > On Dec 28, 2007 1:15 PM, andrew strasfogel > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Rent controls helped a lot... > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 12:09 PM, Gary Hurst > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > wasn't that long ago that ordinary people could > like in manhattan if > > they > > > wanted to. > > > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 11:54 AM, andrew strasfogel > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hursty et al, > > > > I grew up in NYC near Times Square and before > my voice changed sang in > > > the > > > > boy's choir at the Met Opera, which was on > 40th street and 7th avenue > > > > (garment district) in those days. My parents > didn't think twice about > > > > letting me find my way home on the subway or > bus after evening > > > > performances, > > > > usually between 10 and 11 pm. I did this > between the ages of 7 and > > 11. > > > > It > > > > might have helped that my older brother had > done the same thing for a > > > > couple > > > > years before I started singing. Throughout > elementary school and > > junior > > > > high I basically went everywhere on my own or > with a friend. By the > > > time > > > > I > > > > reached high school things had changed and I > was very careful about > > > going > > > > on > > > > the subways after dark. > > > > > > > > ALS > > > > > > > > Diesel content: Our only car was a 1945 > Pontiac that we purchased for > > > > $100, > > > > kept a year, and then sold in 1956 for $25.00. > > > > > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 10:49 AM, LarryT > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Speaking of the Superintendent position - > here in Chesterfield > > County > > > Va > > > > > there have been some controversaries when a > Super was "released" - > > > when > > > > > actually they were fired for cause. Yet the > board voted to pay the > > > > > contract - sometimes amounting to millions > of $$'s/ > > > > > > > > > > When it happened the 2nd or 3rd time the > citizens raised so much > > cain > > > > that > > > > > they found a reason to stop making payments/ > > > > > > > > > > I wonder if this happens in other areas? > > > > > > > > > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > > > > > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber > Parts > > > > > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > > > > > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > > > > > Weber Carb Info > http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > > From: "Mitch Haley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:17 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LarryT wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I have heard stories that the bureaucracy > at schools is fat with > > > > > >> administrators making $100k + salaries - > any truth to that? > > > > > > > > > > > > Teachers around here (Michigan) seem to > make $40k-100k depending > > > > > > on district, experience, and education. > (master's degree is about > > > > > > an 8=12k automatic raise IIRC) Principals > start a bit under a top > > > > > > teacher, and then go up to $150k or so. > The real money is in the > > > > > > Superintendent's wages. > > > > > > > > > > > > As a teacher friend told me, try getti
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
some of you might be familiar with mike trei from his contributions to the star magazine or from other publications he has written for. mike lives in manhattan for about $400 a month in an apartment his family has been in since the 1920s. On Dec 28, 2007 1:15 PM, andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Rent controls helped a lot... > > On Dec 28, 2007 12:09 PM, Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > wasn't that long ago that ordinary people could like in manhattan if > they > > wanted to. > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 11:54 AM, andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > Hursty et al, > > > I grew up in NYC near Times Square and before my voice changed sang in > > the > > > boy's choir at the Met Opera, which was on 40th street and 7th avenue > > > (garment district) in those days. My parents didn't think twice about > > > letting me find my way home on the subway or bus after evening > > > performances, > > > usually between 10 and 11 pm. I did this between the ages of 7 and > 11. > > > It > > > might have helped that my older brother had done the same thing for a > > > couple > > > years before I started singing. Throughout elementary school and > junior > > > high I basically went everywhere on my own or with a friend. By the > > time > > > I > > > reached high school things had changed and I was very careful about > > going > > > on > > > the subways after dark. > > > > > > ALS > > > > > > Diesel content: Our only car was a 1945 Pontiac that we purchased for > > > $100, > > > kept a year, and then sold in 1956 for $25.00. > > > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 10:49 AM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Speaking of the Superintendent position - here in Chesterfield > County > > Va > > > > there have been some controversaries when a Super was "released" - > > when > > > > actually they were fired for cause. Yet the board voted to pay the > > > > contract - sometimes amounting to millions of $$'s/ > > > > > > > > When it happened the 2nd or 3rd time the citizens raised so much > cain > > > that > > > > they found a reason to stop making payments/ > > > > > > > > I wonder if this happens in other areas? > > > > > > > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > > > > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > > > > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > > > > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > > > > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > > > > . > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > From: "Mitch Haley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > > > > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:17 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LarryT wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> I have heard stories that the bureaucracy at schools is fat with > > > > >> administrators making $100k + salaries - any truth to that? > > > > > > > > > > Teachers around here (Michigan) seem to make $40k-100k depending > > > > > on district, experience, and education. (master's degree is about > > > > > an 8=12k automatic raise IIRC) Principals start a bit under a top > > > > > teacher, and then go up to $150k or so. The real money is in the > > > > > Superintendent's wages. > > > > > > > > > > As a teacher friend told me, try getting a copy of a 1960's school > > > > > district budget. See what percentage of the total is non-teaching > > > > > payroll and benefits. Then get the current budget, calculate the > > > > > same percentage, and compare the two. Useless payroll has grown by > > > > > leaps and bounds in the last 30-40 years. In 1975, my local > schools > > > > > had three principals, one superindendent, and a teacher worked > > > > > 2 hours a day as athletic director. Since then, enrollment has > > > > > gone up 15-20%, we have four principals and I don't know how > > > > > many assistant principals, the athletic director has been a f
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
> --- LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Also, what's your opinion of school uniforms - > I have mixed emotions about the uniform thing. > In theory > it's a good idea, in practice it's really up to how > strictly the rules are enforced. > Dan That's a good summary of much of the public school system. And so if the rules have no teeth, it's anarchy. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
Rent controls helped a lot... On Dec 28, 2007 12:09 PM, Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > wasn't that long ago that ordinary people could like in manhattan if they > wanted to. > > On Dec 28, 2007 11:54 AM, andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hursty et al, > > I grew up in NYC near Times Square and before my voice changed sang in > the > > boy's choir at the Met Opera, which was on 40th street and 7th avenue > > (garment district) in those days. My parents didn't think twice about > > letting me find my way home on the subway or bus after evening > > performances, > > usually between 10 and 11 pm. I did this between the ages of 7 and 11. > > It > > might have helped that my older brother had done the same thing for a > > couple > > years before I started singing. Throughout elementary school and junior > > high I basically went everywhere on my own or with a friend. By the > time > > I > > reached high school things had changed and I was very careful about > going > > on > > the subways after dark. > > > > ALS > > > > Diesel content: Our only car was a 1945 Pontiac that we purchased for > > $100, > > kept a year, and then sold in 1956 for $25.00. > > > > On Dec 28, 2007 10:49 AM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Speaking of the Superintendent position - here in Chesterfield County > Va > > > there have been some controversaries when a Super was "released" - > when > > > actually they were fired for cause. Yet the board voted to pay the > > > contract - sometimes amounting to millions of $$'s/ > > > > > > When it happened the 2nd or 3rd time the citizens raised so much cain > > that > > > they found a reason to stop making payments/ > > > > > > I wonder if this happens in other areas? > > > > > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > > > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > > > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > > > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > > > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > > > . > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Mitch Haley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > > > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:17 AM > > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LarryT wrote: > > > >> > > > >> I have heard stories that the bureaucracy at schools is fat with > > > >> administrators making $100k + salaries - any truth to that? > > > > > > > > Teachers around here (Michigan) seem to make $40k-100k depending > > > > on district, experience, and education. (master's degree is about > > > > an 8=12k automatic raise IIRC) Principals start a bit under a top > > > > teacher, and then go up to $150k or so. The real money is in the > > > > Superintendent's wages. > > > > > > > > As a teacher friend told me, try getting a copy of a 1960's school > > > > district budget. See what percentage of the total is non-teaching > > > > payroll and benefits. Then get the current budget, calculate the > > > > same percentage, and compare the two. Useless payroll has grown by > > > > leaps and bounds in the last 30-40 years. In 1975, my local schools > > > > had three principals, one superindendent, and a teacher worked > > > > 2 hours a day as athletic director. Since then, enrollment has > > > > gone up 15-20%, we have four principals and I don't know how > > > > many assistant principals, the athletic director has been a full > > > > time job for at least 15 years and I think he has a secretary now, > ... > > > > > > > > Mitch. > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > Version:
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
wasn't that long ago that ordinary people could like in manhattan if they wanted to. On Dec 28, 2007 11:54 AM, andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hursty et al, > I grew up in NYC near Times Square and before my voice changed sang in the > boy's choir at the Met Opera, which was on 40th street and 7th avenue > (garment district) in those days. My parents didn't think twice about > letting me find my way home on the subway or bus after evening > performances, > usually between 10 and 11 pm. I did this between the ages of 7 and 11. > It > might have helped that my older brother had done the same thing for a > couple > years before I started singing. Throughout elementary school and junior > high I basically went everywhere on my own or with a friend. By the time > I > reached high school things had changed and I was very careful about going > on > the subways after dark. > > ALS > > Diesel content: Our only car was a 1945 Pontiac that we purchased for > $100, > kept a year, and then sold in 1956 for $25.00. > > On Dec 28, 2007 10:49 AM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Speaking of the Superintendent position - here in Chesterfield County Va > > there have been some controversaries when a Super was "released" - when > > actually they were fired for cause. Yet the board voted to pay the > > contract - sometimes amounting to millions of $$'s/ > > > > When it happened the 2nd or 3rd time the citizens raised so much cain > that > > they found a reason to stop making payments/ > > > > I wonder if this happens in other areas? > > > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > > . > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Mitch Haley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:17 AM > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > > > > > > > > > > LarryT wrote: > > >> > > >> I have heard stories that the bureaucracy at schools is fat with > > >> administrators making $100k + salaries - any truth to that? > > > > > > Teachers around here (Michigan) seem to make $40k-100k depending > > > on district, experience, and education. (master's degree is about > > > an 8=12k automatic raise IIRC) Principals start a bit under a top > > > teacher, and then go up to $150k or so. The real money is in the > > > Superintendent's wages. > > > > > > As a teacher friend told me, try getting a copy of a 1960's school > > > district budget. See what percentage of the total is non-teaching > > > payroll and benefits. Then get the current budget, calculate the > > > same percentage, and compare the two. Useless payroll has grown by > > > leaps and bounds in the last 30-40 years. In 1975, my local schools > > > had three principals, one superindendent, and a teacher worked > > > 2 hours a day as athletic director. Since then, enrollment has > > > gone up 15-20%, we have four principals and I don't know how > > > many assistant principals, the athletic director has been a full > > > time job for at least 15 years and I think he has a secretary now, ... > > > > > > Mitch. > > > > > > ___ > > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1201 - Release Date: > > > 12/28/2007 11:51 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
Hursty et al, I grew up in NYC near Times Square and before my voice changed sang in the boy's choir at the Met Opera, which was on 40th street and 7th avenue (garment district) in those days. My parents didn't think twice about letting me find my way home on the subway or bus after evening performances, usually between 10 and 11 pm. I did this between the ages of 7 and 11. It might have helped that my older brother had done the same thing for a couple years before I started singing. Throughout elementary school and junior high I basically went everywhere on my own or with a friend. By the time I reached high school things had changed and I was very careful about going on the subways after dark. ALS Diesel content: Our only car was a 1945 Pontiac that we purchased for $100, kept a year, and then sold in 1956 for $25.00. On Dec 28, 2007 10:49 AM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Speaking of the Superintendent position - here in Chesterfield County Va > there have been some controversaries when a Super was "released" - when > actually they were fired for cause. Yet the board voted to pay the > contract - sometimes amounting to millions of $$'s/ > > When it happened the 2nd or 3rd time the citizens raised so much cain that > they found a reason to stop making payments/ > > I wonder if this happens in other areas? > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > . > > - Original Message - > From: "Mitch Haley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:17 AM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > > > > > LarryT wrote: > >> > >> I have heard stories that the bureaucracy at schools is fat with > >> administrators making $100k + salaries - any truth to that? > > > > Teachers around here (Michigan) seem to make $40k-100k depending > > on district, experience, and education. (master's degree is about > > an 8=12k automatic raise IIRC) Principals start a bit under a top > > teacher, and then go up to $150k or so. The real money is in the > > Superintendent's wages. > > > > As a teacher friend told me, try getting a copy of a 1960's school > > district budget. See what percentage of the total is non-teaching > > payroll and benefits. Then get the current budget, calculate the > > same percentage, and compare the two. Useless payroll has grown by > > leaps and bounds in the last 30-40 years. In 1975, my local schools > > had three principals, one superindendent, and a teacher worked > > 2 hours a day as athletic director. Since then, enrollment has > > gone up 15-20%, we have four principals and I don't know how > > many assistant principals, the athletic director has been a full > > time job for at least 15 years and I think he has a secretary now, ... > > > > Mitch. > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1201 - Release Date: > > 12/28/2007 11:51 AM > > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
Speaking of the Superintendent position - here in Chesterfield County Va there have been some controversaries when a Super was "released" - when actually they were fired for cause. Yet the board voted to pay the contract - sometimes amounting to millions of $$'s/ When it happened the 2nd or 3rd time the citizens raised so much cain that they found a reason to stop making payments/ I wonder if this happens in other areas? Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > LarryT wrote: >> >> I have heard stories that the bureaucracy at schools is fat with >> administrators making $100k + salaries - any truth to that? > > Teachers around here (Michigan) seem to make $40k-100k depending > on district, experience, and education. (master's degree is about > an 8=12k automatic raise IIRC) Principals start a bit under a top > teacher, and then go up to $150k or so. The real money is in the > Superintendent's wages. > > As a teacher friend told me, try getting a copy of a 1960's school > district budget. See what percentage of the total is non-teaching > payroll and benefits. Then get the current budget, calculate the > same percentage, and compare the two. Useless payroll has grown by > leaps and bounds in the last 30-40 years. In 1975, my local schools > had three principals, one superindendent, and a teacher worked > 2 hours a day as athletic director. Since then, enrollment has > gone up 15-20%, we have four principals and I don't know how > many assistant principals, the athletic director has been a full > time job for at least 15 years and I think he has a secretary now, ... > > Mitch. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1201 - Release Date: > 12/28/2007 11:51 AM > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
LarryT wrote: > > I have heard stories that the bureaucracy at schools is fat with > administrators making $100k + salaries - any truth to that? Teachers around here (Michigan) seem to make $40k-100k depending on district, experience, and education. (master's degree is about an 8=12k automatic raise IIRC) Principals start a bit under a top teacher, and then go up to $150k or so. The real money is in the Superintendent's wages. As a teacher friend told me, try getting a copy of a 1960's school district budget. See what percentage of the total is non-teaching payroll and benefits. Then get the current budget, calculate the same percentage, and compare the two. Useless payroll has grown by leaps and bounds in the last 30-40 years. In 1975, my local schools had three principals, one superindendent, and a teacher worked 2 hours a day as athletic director. Since then, enrollment has gone up 15-20%, we have four principals and I don't know how many assistant principals, the athletic director has been a full time job for at least 15 years and I think he has a secretary now, ... Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
--- "Kaleb C. Striplin, work" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Problem is, the way things are today that they > probably wouldnt back you up. That's the real root of the issue. At the high school I was teaching at there is a very clearly defined dress code (a district-wide one, for that matter.) You would have these teenage girls come in with their boobs about to pop out of their blouses, yet nothing would be said about it. If you as a teacher, turned them in, and you were a male teacher, you couldn't specify what their dress code violation was, as it would imply that you were looking at their boobs. That meant that if you tried to enforce the rules, you were in trouble. All you could do was send them to the office with a note about "checking the dress code" and nothing more. That way, if someone accused you of staring at their chest, you could just say that a student complained, you didn't know what the reason was, so you sent them down. As a result, the dress code was rarely ever enforced, since it was more trouble to do so, or you could risk some sort of backlash from turning the student in. There are other schools in the district where dress code violations are not tolerated - period. That's because the principal has dictated that they will be enforced. In the case of my school it wasn't, and as a result, the parents would complain if they got called about their kid's clothing (consider that Mom & Dad sent them to school that way, too.) This is a good example of how the principal can make or break you without any direct interaction... Dan Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
Problem is, the way things are today that they probably wouldnt back you up.
---
Kaleb C. Striplin
Cox Auto Trader
730-Tulsa FSBO Supervisor
- Original Message -
From: "LWB250" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
>I taught in a local (rural/suburban) high school last
> semester, and to say that things are adversarial when
> it comes to students and parents is putting it mildly.
>
> I had a kid who was from a very well known and
> prominent cattle ranching family. It's clear that the
> student in question was not going to college and most
> likely would live out their life on the ranch, taken
> care of by mom and dad until they cacked and left he
> and his siblings the ranch.
>
> They would come in to class on a daily basis and
> either be disruptive or just put their head on his
> desk ("I'm not going to work today.") While that was
> probably the best thing, since having them sleep kept
> them from being disruptive, it set a precedent that
> would cause me problems with other students.
>
> I would take them out of class, call mom, and explain
> the situation. Mom would talk to them, they would be
> compliant, and the next day the cycle would repeat
> itself.
>
> Back in the day, if our teacher called home like this
> we would probably expect a major @ss-kicking. In this
> day in age it's clear that for most kids there are no
> expectations of civility or respect, nor are there
> consequences for such behaviors. I think that's the
> one thing that p#sses me off the most as a teacher.
> If I expect my students to comply with the rules and
> they don't, there is little or nothing I can do about
> it, and if I do, I risk getting a nasty phone call
> from home. So I tolerate it, unless I get an
> administrator that I know will back me up.
>
> MacDan
___
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Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
--- LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have heard stories that the bureaucracy at schools > is fat with > administrators making $100k + salaries - any truth > to that? Not in Florida. As an administrator (principal) the best you could possibly do is in the high 70's, and that's if you started out really early in your career. North of the Mason-Dixon Line you can make in the low 100's, but those jobs are hard to come by. > Also, what's your opinion of school uniforms - > doesn;t it level the playing > field and remove some of the competition about who > has the best shoes or > newest clothes? I have mixed emotions about the uniform thing. The school I work at has a uniform policy, but it's fairly easy to get around, mainly because it's a Title 1 school and one of the workarounds is not having the ability to buy uniforms. Ironically, I have seen kids come in with NBA jerseys that cost more than what I make in a day, yet they can't buy uniforms? In theory it's a good idea, in practice it's really up to how strictly the rules are enforced. > re the kids from the cattle family - I knew a family > in SC who owned their > own business. They used to do their sons homework > for him or get his sister > to do it!! He could barely read and when asked > about him needing basic > skills later they said he;d inherit the business and > only needed to know how > to run that business. Sad they had such low > expectations. These people are not highly educated but they are very successful and recognize the value of an education. Interestingly, their other kids are/were good students and are or will attend college. This one is the "problem child" of the family, hence the lowered expectations, I believe. > There's some strange people out there - Definitely. The demographics for this school are really bizarre. I had classes with poor (white) kids, hispanic gang-bangers, upscale party girls with boob jobs (at 17!) and middle eastern immigrant kids who kicked ass academically. That's all in one class. Go figure. Dan Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
I have heard stories that the bureaucracy at schools is fat with
administrators making $100k + salaries - any truth to that?
Also, what's your opinion of school uniforms - doesn;t it level the playing
field and remove some of the competition about who has the best shoes or
newest clothes?
re the kids from the cattle family - I knew a family in SC who owned their
own business. They used to do their sons homework for him or get his sister
to do it!! He could barely read and when asked about him needing basic
skills later they said he;d inherit the business and only needed to know how
to run that business. Sad they had such low expectations.
There's some strange people out there -
Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.
- Original Message -
From: "LWB250" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
>I taught in a local (rural/suburban) high school last
> semester, and to say that things are adversarial when
> it comes to students and parents is putting it mildly.
>
> I had a kid who was from a very well known and
> prominent cattle ranching family. It's clear that the
> student in question was not going to college and most
> likely would live out their life on the ranch, taken
> care of by mom and dad until they cacked and left he
> and his siblings the ranch.
>
> They would come in to class on a daily basis and
> either be disruptive or just put their head on his
> desk ("I'm not going to work today.") While that was
> probably the best thing, since having them sleep kept
> them from being disruptive, it set a precedent that
> would cause me problems with other students.
>
> I would take them out of class, call mom, and explain
> the situation. Mom would talk to them, they would be
> compliant, and the next day the cycle would repeat
> itself.
>
> Back in the day, if our teacher called home like this
> we would probably expect a major @ss-kicking. In this
> day in age it's clear that for most kids there are no
> expectations of civility or respect, nor are there
> consequences for such behaviors. I think that's the
> one thing that p#sses me off the most as a teacher.
> If I expect my students to comply with the rules and
> they don't, there is little or nothing I can do about
> it, and if I do, I risk getting a nasty phone call
> from home. So I tolerate it, unless I get an
> administrator that I know will back me up.
>
> MacDan
>
> --- Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> i'm still friends with one of my teachers from high
>> school. he is still
>> teaching. he says it's a whole different day today
>> where he really has to
>> watch everything he says and does as the kids go
>> home and tell their parents
>> everything and the parents then come in and
>> terrorize the administrators.
>> in our day, you were really expected to settle your
>> own affairs. if you had
>> an issue with a teacher, you dealt with it yourself
>> as the teacher did if he
>> had an issue with you.
>>
>> today, children are unable to settle their own
>> affairs on any level. they
>> just complain all day screaming for constant adult
>> intervention. what is
>> this about? some kind of feminization of society
>> perhaps?
>
>
>
>
>
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.9/1198 - Release Date:
> 12/26/2007 5:26 PM
>
___
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Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
It was a different time & place. I spent my young years 5-12 in a small town in SC - Would ride a bus to school (driven by high school students!!! - some only 16 yrs old) with the high school kids - would walk to my elementary school next to the HS. After school I took my BB gun, met my best friend and spent as much time as possible in the woods around our houses - the small town was firmly in the country. Now, my daughter won't let our G'Son shoot my old BB gun in the backyard - but I'm working on her ;-) On Saturday's my Mom or my friends mom would drop us at the theater (there was only 1)to see the movies - usually a Western double feature. This was by ourselves at ages 8-12 IIRC. When I was 13 we moved to Hampton Va - a pretty large city com[pared to our previous location but not really a *big* city like NY or Phil. The downtown part was mostly old and run down with no reason to go there as the malls had all we needed - and we shopped at the air force base mostly anyway. I stayed there until after HS - hitchhiking when I needed to get somewhere and the bus wasn;t handy or I didn;t have the money. After being married at 18 (wife 17) we moved to La then Tx in 1973 or 74. WHile I worked (at a oil refinery - back when we used to build them) my wife would take the 3 kids to the beach (near Sabine Pass in east Tx) on the Gulf of Mex - she;'d be completely by herself with not another soul on the beach for miles. Often she wouldn;t see another person during the 2-3 hours she stayed. That scares the hell out of me now! No way would she or I see her take 3 kids aged 2-5 to a deserted beach!! She was 22 by then and while she may have been in danger we didn;t think so. AS someone said, things were different then - or maybe we didn;t hear about crime like we do now.? Also, I wouldn;t have wanted my kids to hitchhike anywhere -- So I think we did a lot of things in the 60s and 70s we wouldn;t dream of doing in the 80s, 90s or 00s. Can it really be that people are worse now? Seems like there must have always been "Bad" people. I know the education system is worse and could explain why but I can't think of what would turn part of the populaton into homicidal maniacs where they were not before. Maybe I'm just not thinking hard enough. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: "Gary Hurst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Banned List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:57 PM Subject: [MBZ] how the world has changed > my kid informs me that she really wants to go to disney world. i explain > that disney world is a place i really hate, so she ought not hold her > breath. then she suggests that she can go to the park by herself and i > can > go find some other way to entertain myself during that time. i dismiss > the > idea immediately. > > when i think back though to when i was her age, i realize that is exactly > what would have happened had my parents taken me to disney. (my parents, > however, didn't venture more than about 100 miles from new york city, so > no > worries about this actually coming up). by the time i was in the fifth > grade, i was pretty much on my own. i walked to school in the morning and > back home in the afternoon. on days when there was no school, i'd leave > the > house to go out on the street in the late morning and come back at > dinnertime. i walked long distances to go places and would take the bus > or > subway on my own if i had the money to. all my friends lived this > lifestyle > as well and a complete lack of supervision seemed the norm. in fact, the > few children we did know who lived under parental supervision where > considered highly unusual both by us kids and by our parents. > > my dad left hungary after a dispute with the communists and their radical > expansion of power. europe, however, isn't really that big a place, so he > soon found himself living the life of a beach bum in southern italy. he > was > quite a dark skinned man and seemed able to spend all day in sea and sand > without any ill effects. i, on the other hand, burn easily and am > impatient > with just sitting in the sand all day. he came to new york and was a > beach > bum there as well and never lost his love of the beach. > > on summer saturdays we would go to jones beach along with 100,000 other > people. it is a large and well appointed place. i'd hang out with dad > for > half an hour or so, then disappear to find other activities. maybe i
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
I think if you were a girl (got any sisters?) your parents might have thought differently. Things are quite different fo sho. The world is full of people who should not be allowed to breath. Bob R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Hurst Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 9:28 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed i'm not planning to. just thought about how different my thoughts towards children's independence are from those of my parents' generation. On Dec 27, 2007 11:12 PM, Robert Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Almost 11 might be too young unless she really has her act together. We > dads > protect our girls a little more than the boys I believe. > > Bob R > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:16 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > almost 11 > > On Dec 27, 2007 9:48 PM, Robert Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Remind me how old she is. I think a lot of it has to due with a kids > age. > > > > Bob R. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:02 PM > > To: Mercedes Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > i often wonder whether it is not in reality more dangerous to take my > kid > > for a drive to the grocery store than to let her out on the street all > > day. > > > > the reality is that i almost can't help being overprotective. if she > > wants > > to walk up the street to play with some kids, she either takes me or the > > dogs. > > > > On Dec 27, 2007 6:34 PM, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I believe we are insanely over protective and it's caused by the > > > information > > > age we live in. > > > > > > Think of it this way - some kid gets brutally murdered 2 states away, > > it's > > > all over the net, we read about it, send out millions of emails and we > > all > > > pull our children in closer. The same goes for Amber Alerts. It's a > > great > > > idea but what happens when one goes out? Again, we pull our children > in > > > closer to protect them - usually against a criminal who has less than > a > > 1 > > > in > > > 1,000,000 chance of actually getting close to our children? > > > > > > But if this had happened 50 years ago, the murder would have appeared > in > > > next Sunday's paper, probably way back in section C or D. We would > have > > > read > > > it, expressed some concern for the family & went on. Why? Because it's > > not > > > a > > > "local story" - it happened 2 states away! > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Tom Hargrave > > > www.kegkits.com > > > 256-656-1924 > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:58 PM > > > To: Banned List; Mercedes Discussion List > > > Subject: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > > > my kid informs me that she really wants to go to disney world. i > > explain > > > that disney world is a place i really hate, so she ought not hold her > > > breath. then she suggests that she can go to the park by herself and > i > > > can > > > go find some other way to entertain myself during that time. i > dismiss > > > the > > > idea immediately. > > > > > > when i think back though to when i was her age, i realize that is > > exactly > > > what would have happened had my parents taken me to disney. (my > > parents, > > > however, didn't venture more than about 100 miles from new york city, > so > > > no > > > worries about this actually coming up). by the time i was in the > fifth > > > grade, i was pretty much on my own. i walked to school in the morning > > and > > > back home in the afternoon. on days when there was no school, i'd > leave > > > the > > > house to go out on the street in the late morning and come back at > > > dinnertime. i walked long distances to go places and would
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
i'm not planning to. just thought about how different my thoughts towards children's independence are from those of my parents' generation. On Dec 27, 2007 11:12 PM, Robert Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Almost 11 might be too young unless she really has her act together. We > dads > protect our girls a little more than the boys I believe. > > Bob R > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:16 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > almost 11 > > On Dec 27, 2007 9:48 PM, Robert Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Remind me how old she is. I think a lot of it has to due with a kids > age. > > > > Bob R. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:02 PM > > To: Mercedes Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > i often wonder whether it is not in reality more dangerous to take my > kid > > for a drive to the grocery store than to let her out on the street all > > day. > > > > the reality is that i almost can't help being overprotective. if she > > wants > > to walk up the street to play with some kids, she either takes me or the > > dogs. > > > > On Dec 27, 2007 6:34 PM, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I believe we are insanely over protective and it's caused by the > > > information > > > age we live in. > > > > > > Think of it this way - some kid gets brutally murdered 2 states away, > > it's > > > all over the net, we read about it, send out millions of emails and we > > all > > > pull our children in closer. The same goes for Amber Alerts. It's a > > great > > > idea but what happens when one goes out? Again, we pull our children > in > > > closer to protect them - usually against a criminal who has less than > a > > 1 > > > in > > > 1,000,000 chance of actually getting close to our children? > > > > > > But if this had happened 50 years ago, the murder would have appeared > in > > > next Sunday's paper, probably way back in section C or D. We would > have > > > read > > > it, expressed some concern for the family & went on. Why? Because it's > > not > > > a > > > "local story" - it happened 2 states away! > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Tom Hargrave > > > www.kegkits.com > > > 256-656-1924 > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:58 PM > > > To: Banned List; Mercedes Discussion List > > > Subject: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > > > my kid informs me that she really wants to go to disney world. i > > explain > > > that disney world is a place i really hate, so she ought not hold her > > > breath. then she suggests that she can go to the park by herself and > i > > > can > > > go find some other way to entertain myself during that time. i > dismiss > > > the > > > idea immediately. > > > > > > when i think back though to when i was her age, i realize that is > > exactly > > > what would have happened had my parents taken me to disney. (my > > parents, > > > however, didn't venture more than about 100 miles from new york city, > so > > > no > > > worries about this actually coming up). by the time i was in the > fifth > > > grade, i was pretty much on my own. i walked to school in the morning > > and > > > back home in the afternoon. on days when there was no school, i'd > leave > > > the > > > house to go out on the street in the late morning and come back at > > > dinnertime. i walked long distances to go places and would take the > bus > > > or > > > subway on my own if i had the money to. all my friends lived this > > > lifestyle > > > as well and a complete lack of supervision seemed the norm. in fact, > > the > > > few children we did know who lived under parental supervision where > > > considered highly unusual both by us kids and by our parents. > > > &g
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
Almost 11 might be too young unless she really has her act together. We dads protect our girls a little more than the boys I believe. Bob R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Hurst Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:16 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed almost 11 On Dec 27, 2007 9:48 PM, Robert Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Remind me how old she is. I think a lot of it has to due with a kids age. > > Bob R. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:02 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > i often wonder whether it is not in reality more dangerous to take my kid > for a drive to the grocery store than to let her out on the street all > day. > > the reality is that i almost can't help being overprotective. if she > wants > to walk up the street to play with some kids, she either takes me or the > dogs. > > On Dec 27, 2007 6:34 PM, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I believe we are insanely over protective and it's caused by the > > information > > age we live in. > > > > Think of it this way - some kid gets brutally murdered 2 states away, > it's > > all over the net, we read about it, send out millions of emails and we > all > > pull our children in closer. The same goes for Amber Alerts. It's a > great > > idea but what happens when one goes out? Again, we pull our children in > > closer to protect them - usually against a criminal who has less than a > 1 > > in > > 1,000,000 chance of actually getting close to our children? > > > > But if this had happened 50 years ago, the murder would have appeared in > > next Sunday's paper, probably way back in section C or D. We would have > > read > > it, expressed some concern for the family & went on. Why? Because it's > not > > a > > "local story" - it happened 2 states away! > > > > Thanks, > > Tom Hargrave > > www.kegkits.com > > 256-656-1924 > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:58 PM > > To: Banned List; Mercedes Discussion List > > Subject: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > my kid informs me that she really wants to go to disney world. i > explain > > that disney world is a place i really hate, so she ought not hold her > > breath. then she suggests that she can go to the park by herself and i > > can > > go find some other way to entertain myself during that time. i dismiss > > the > > idea immediately. > > > > when i think back though to when i was her age, i realize that is > exactly > > what would have happened had my parents taken me to disney. (my > parents, > > however, didn't venture more than about 100 miles from new york city, so > > no > > worries about this actually coming up). by the time i was in the fifth > > grade, i was pretty much on my own. i walked to school in the morning > and > > back home in the afternoon. on days when there was no school, i'd leave > > the > > house to go out on the street in the late morning and come back at > > dinnertime. i walked long distances to go places and would take the bus > > or > > subway on my own if i had the money to. all my friends lived this > > lifestyle > > as well and a complete lack of supervision seemed the norm. in fact, > the > > few children we did know who lived under parental supervision where > > considered highly unusual both by us kids and by our parents. > > > > my dad left hungary after a dispute with the communists and their > radical > > expansion of power. europe, however, isn't really that big a place, so > he > > soon found himself living the life of a beach bum in southern italy. he > > was > > quite a dark skinned man and seemed able to spend all day in sea and > sand > > without any ill effects. i, on the other hand, burn easily and am > > impatient > > with just sitting in the sand all day. he came to new york and was a > > beach > > bum there as well and never lost his love of the beach. > > > > on summer saturdays we would go to jones beach along with 100,000 other > > people. it is a large and well appointed place. i'd hang out with dad > > for >
Re: [MBZ] How the world has changed.
i suppose i'm pretty traditional about men and children. as a general rule, men ought not be interested in children other than their own. unaccompanied men ought not even be in the proximity of children. i consider any man not living under these principles to be under suspicion of pedophelia. On Dec 27, 2007 10:52 PM, Hendrik & Fay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'd be more worried about pedophiles than mass murderers, seems that > mass murderers prefer high schools, which is where their twisted view of > the world takes shape. > We where at HK Disneyland a few months ago and there where a number of > unaccompanied men wandering about, I tried to tell the missus that they > where probably security but by the end of the day I was starting to > wonder. They weren't Asian looking and they wore bright, sort of bubbly > T shirts, that middle aged men just don't wear. Generally security > people don't wear clothes that make them stand out somewhat. > So no I wouldn't use a theme park as a child minding service. > > Hendrik > who wonders why sex offenders get a suspended sentence and tax evaders > get locked up for quite a while, guess we value money more > > Mitch Haley wrote: > > wilton strickland wrote: > > > >> In '76, my wife and I dropped of our 13-yr-old son and his 13-yr-old > friend > >> visiting from Michigan at entrance to Disneyland at 8:00 A. M., telling > them > >> to be there at 8:00 P. M. for pickup. > >> > > > > I wouldn't do that today. Disney tries very hard to make sure that only > > those with criminal intent are armed on the premises. Wonderful place > for > > a mass murder, 10x better than any shopping mall. It's just a matter of > > time. Already been some gang killings in Disneyworld, they just toss > > weapons over the fence to guys who already went through the metal > detector > > at the gate. Meanwhile, 60 year old grandmothers who forgot they had > > a revolver in their purse go to jail if they try to take the kiddies > > to MouseWorld. > > > > Mitch. > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] How the world has changed.
I'd be more worried about pedophiles than mass murderers, seems that mass murderers prefer high schools, which is where their twisted view of the world takes shape. We where at HK Disneyland a few months ago and there where a number of unaccompanied men wandering about, I tried to tell the missus that they where probably security but by the end of the day I was starting to wonder. They weren't Asian looking and they wore bright, sort of bubbly T shirts, that middle aged men just don't wear. Generally security people don't wear clothes that make them stand out somewhat. So no I wouldn't use a theme park as a child minding service. Hendrik who wonders why sex offenders get a suspended sentence and tax evaders get locked up for quite a while, guess we value money more Mitch Haley wrote: > wilton strickland wrote: > >> In '76, my wife and I dropped of our 13-yr-old son and his 13-yr-old friend >> visiting from Michigan at entrance to Disneyland at 8:00 A. M., telling them >> to be there at 8:00 P. M. for pickup. >> > > I wouldn't do that today. Disney tries very hard to make sure that only > those with criminal intent are armed on the premises. Wonderful place for > a mass murder, 10x better than any shopping mall. It's just a matter of > time. Already been some gang killings in Disneyworld, they just toss > weapons over the fence to guys who already went through the metal detector > at the gate. Meanwhile, 60 year old grandmothers who forgot they had > a revolver in their purse go to jail if they try to take the kiddies > to MouseWorld. > > Mitch. > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
almost 11 On Dec 27, 2007 9:48 PM, Robert Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Remind me how old she is. I think a lot of it has to due with a kids age. > > Bob R. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:02 PM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > i often wonder whether it is not in reality more dangerous to take my kid > for a drive to the grocery store than to let her out on the street all > day. > > the reality is that i almost can't help being overprotective. if she > wants > to walk up the street to play with some kids, she either takes me or the > dogs. > > On Dec 27, 2007 6:34 PM, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I believe we are insanely over protective and it's caused by the > > information > > age we live in. > > > > Think of it this way - some kid gets brutally murdered 2 states away, > it's > > all over the net, we read about it, send out millions of emails and we > all > > pull our children in closer. The same goes for Amber Alerts. It's a > great > > idea but what happens when one goes out? Again, we pull our children in > > closer to protect them - usually against a criminal who has less than a > 1 > > in > > 1,000,000 chance of actually getting close to our children? > > > > But if this had happened 50 years ago, the murder would have appeared in > > next Sunday's paper, probably way back in section C or D. We would have > > read > > it, expressed some concern for the family & went on. Why? Because it's > not > > a > > "local story" - it happened 2 states away! > > > > Thanks, > > Tom Hargrave > > www.kegkits.com > > 256-656-1924 > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:58 PM > > To: Banned List; Mercedes Discussion List > > Subject: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > > > my kid informs me that she really wants to go to disney world. i > explain > > that disney world is a place i really hate, so she ought not hold her > > breath. then she suggests that she can go to the park by herself and i > > can > > go find some other way to entertain myself during that time. i dismiss > > the > > idea immediately. > > > > when i think back though to when i was her age, i realize that is > exactly > > what would have happened had my parents taken me to disney. (my > parents, > > however, didn't venture more than about 100 miles from new york city, so > > no > > worries about this actually coming up). by the time i was in the fifth > > grade, i was pretty much on my own. i walked to school in the morning > and > > back home in the afternoon. on days when there was no school, i'd leave > > the > > house to go out on the street in the late morning and come back at > > dinnertime. i walked long distances to go places and would take the bus > > or > > subway on my own if i had the money to. all my friends lived this > > lifestyle > > as well and a complete lack of supervision seemed the norm. in fact, > the > > few children we did know who lived under parental supervision where > > considered highly unusual both by us kids and by our parents. > > > > my dad left hungary after a dispute with the communists and their > radical > > expansion of power. europe, however, isn't really that big a place, so > he > > soon found himself living the life of a beach bum in southern italy. he > > was > > quite a dark skinned man and seemed able to spend all day in sea and > sand > > without any ill effects. i, on the other hand, burn easily and am > > impatient > > with just sitting in the sand all day. he came to new york and was a > > beach > > bum there as well and never lost his love of the beach. > > > > on summer saturdays we would go to jones beach along with 100,000 other > > people. it is a large and well appointed place. i'd hang out with dad > > for > > half an hour or so, then disappear to find other activities. maybe i'd > > swim > > a couple of miles down the beach or maybe i'd go check out the > basketball > > courts. i'd return several hours later after having entertained myself > > adequately . this was pretty normal. > > > > i'm still f
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
Schools are jacked up. But...this is a separate issue from Jabba letting his girl child go to D-world. I've employed the idea that a kids maturity (if you can use that word when describing a kid) level has a lot to do with what I will allow them to do. Each one of my three have been different. I reckon you can let a capable kid go by themselves (Or more than likely with a friend) or D-world and they have as much of a chance of running into some kind of trouble as they have a chance of getting run over by the Goofy shuttle in the parking lotor getting hit in the head by a chunk of Skylab. But most parents don't think that way. Bob R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 6:51 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed Gary Hurst wrote: > > today, children are unable to settle their own affairs on any level. Yep. They are indoctrinated that way. They are taught that handling difficult situations for themselves is inexcusable conduct. If a bully hits you and you hit him back, or even if you just stand there and let him pound on you, you get suspended for fighting. Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
Remind me how old she is. I think a lot of it has to due with a kids age. Bob R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Hurst Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:02 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed i often wonder whether it is not in reality more dangerous to take my kid for a drive to the grocery store than to let her out on the street all day. the reality is that i almost can't help being overprotective. if she wants to walk up the street to play with some kids, she either takes me or the dogs. On Dec 27, 2007 6:34 PM, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I believe we are insanely over protective and it's caused by the > information > age we live in. > > Think of it this way - some kid gets brutally murdered 2 states away, it's > all over the net, we read about it, send out millions of emails and we all > pull our children in closer. The same goes for Amber Alerts. It's a great > idea but what happens when one goes out? Again, we pull our children in > closer to protect them - usually against a criminal who has less than a 1 > in > 1,000,000 chance of actually getting close to our children? > > But if this had happened 50 years ago, the murder would have appeared in > next Sunday's paper, probably way back in section C or D. We would have > read > it, expressed some concern for the family & went on. Why? Because it's not > a > "local story" - it happened 2 states away! > > Thanks, > Tom Hargrave > www.kegkits.com > 256-656-1924 > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:58 PM > To: Banned List; Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > my kid informs me that she really wants to go to disney world. i explain > that disney world is a place i really hate, so she ought not hold her > breath. then she suggests that she can go to the park by herself and i > can > go find some other way to entertain myself during that time. i dismiss > the > idea immediately. > > when i think back though to when i was her age, i realize that is exactly > what would have happened had my parents taken me to disney. (my parents, > however, didn't venture more than about 100 miles from new york city, so > no > worries about this actually coming up). by the time i was in the fifth > grade, i was pretty much on my own. i walked to school in the morning and > back home in the afternoon. on days when there was no school, i'd leave > the > house to go out on the street in the late morning and come back at > dinnertime. i walked long distances to go places and would take the bus > or > subway on my own if i had the money to. all my friends lived this > lifestyle > as well and a complete lack of supervision seemed the norm. in fact, the > few children we did know who lived under parental supervision where > considered highly unusual both by us kids and by our parents. > > my dad left hungary after a dispute with the communists and their radical > expansion of power. europe, however, isn't really that big a place, so he > soon found himself living the life of a beach bum in southern italy. he > was > quite a dark skinned man and seemed able to spend all day in sea and sand > without any ill effects. i, on the other hand, burn easily and am > impatient > with just sitting in the sand all day. he came to new york and was a > beach > bum there as well and never lost his love of the beach. > > on summer saturdays we would go to jones beach along with 100,000 other > people. it is a large and well appointed place. i'd hang out with dad > for > half an hour or so, then disappear to find other activities. maybe i'd > swim > a couple of miles down the beach or maybe i'd go check out the basketball > courts. i'd return several hours later after having entertained myself > adequately . this was pretty normal. > > i'm still fond of the beach and take my kid whenever i can. she is never > out of my sight. > > my question is a simple one: were my parents' generation simply negligent > in their outlook or are we simply insanely overprotective? > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG F
Re: [MBZ] How the world has changed.
wilton strickland wrote: > In '76, my wife and I dropped of our 13-yr-old son and his 13-yr-old friend > visiting from Michigan at entrance to Disneyland at 8:00 A. M., telling them > to be there at 8:00 P. M. for pickup. I wouldn't do that today. Disney tries very hard to make sure that only those with criminal intent are armed on the premises. Wonderful place for a mass murder, 10x better than any shopping mall. It's just a matter of time. Already been some gang killings in Disneyworld, they just toss weapons over the fence to guys who already went through the metal detector at the gate. Meanwhile, 60 year old grandmothers who forgot they had a revolver in their purse go to jail if they try to take the kiddies to MouseWorld. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
I taught in a local (rural/suburban) high school last
semester, and to say that things are adversarial when
it comes to students and parents is putting it mildly.
I had a kid who was from a very well known and
prominent cattle ranching family. It's clear that the
student in question was not going to college and most
likely would live out their life on the ranch, taken
care of by mom and dad until they cacked and left he
and his siblings the ranch.
They would come in to class on a daily basis and
either be disruptive or just put their head on his
desk ("I'm not going to work today.") While that was
probably the best thing, since having them sleep kept
them from being disruptive, it set a precedent that
would cause me problems with other students.
I would take them out of class, call mom, and explain
the situation. Mom would talk to them, they would be
compliant, and the next day the cycle would repeat
itself.
Back in the day, if our teacher called home like this
we would probably expect a major @ss-kicking. In this
day in age it's clear that for most kids there are no
expectations of civility or respect, nor are there
consequences for such behaviors. I think that's the
one thing that p#sses me off the most as a teacher.
If I expect my students to comply with the rules and
they don't, there is little or nothing I can do about
it, and if I do, I risk getting a nasty phone call
from home. So I tolerate it, unless I get an
administrator that I know will back me up.
MacDan
--- Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> i'm still friends with one of my teachers from high
> school. he is still
> teaching. he says it's a whole different day today
> where he really has to
> watch everything he says and does as the kids go
> home and tell their parents
> everything and the parents then come in and
> terrorize the administrators.
> in our day, you were really expected to settle your
> own affairs. if you had
> an issue with a teacher, you dealt with it yourself
> as the teacher did if he
> had an issue with you.
>
> today, children are unable to settle their own
> affairs on any level. they
> just complain all day screaming for constant adult
> intervention. what is
> this about? some kind of feminization of society
> perhaps?
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
Gary Hurst wrote: > > today, children are unable to settle their own affairs on any level. Yep. They are indoctrinated that way. They are taught that handling difficult situations for themselves is inexcusable conduct. If a bully hits you and you hit him back, or even if you just stand there and let him pound on you, you get suspended for fighting. Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] How the world has changed.
I think we've all changed. At 12, in '46, I started riding my bike through the countryside on a VERY busy road to school every day; 'rode it back into town many nights to Scout meetings and other activities. 'Also rode it many long-distance miles wherever I wanted to go. 'Always felt safe and never got into any "mischief." In '76, my wife and I dropped of our 13-yr-old son and his 13-yr-old friend visiting from Michigan at entrance to Disneyland at 8:00 A. M., telling them to be there at 8:00 P. M. for pickup. We all met back at the entrance at the appointed time after having had a VERY enjoyable day. 'Not sure we could feel so comfortable doing that now. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
> today, children are unable to settle their own affairs on any level. > they > just complain all day screaming for constant adult intervention. what > is > this about? some kind of feminization of society perhaps? Perhaps, but it is all part of the 'nannification' of our society. I blame politics. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
i'm still friends with one of my teachers from high school. he is still teaching. he says it's a whole different day today where he really has to watch everything he says and does as the kids go home and tell their parents everything and the parents then come in and terrorize the administrators. in our day, you were really expected to settle your own affairs. if you had an issue with a teacher, you dealt with it yourself as the teacher did if he had an issue with you. today, children are unable to settle their own affairs on any level. they just complain all day screaming for constant adult intervention. what is this about? some kind of feminization of society perhaps? On Dec 27, 2007 6:21 PM, Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think it was a more trusting world then, with much less obvious crime > and a whole lot less child snatching, etc. > > However, the current crop of parents is grossly overprotective, too. > Witness the advent of "helicopter" parents at colleges and > universities. When I was in school, the LAST thing I would have done > if I were doing poorly in a class was call my father to complain. He'd > have offered to stop paying for school if I'd pulled a stunt like that, > it was up to me to solve problems and get my backside into the seat in > time for class, not his. Today, parents harass faculty and staff all > the time on behalf of their kids. > > Things have changed. > > Peter > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
i often wonder whether it is not in reality more dangerous to take my kid for a drive to the grocery store than to let her out on the street all day. the reality is that i almost can't help being overprotective. if she wants to walk up the street to play with some kids, she either takes me or the dogs. On Dec 27, 2007 6:34 PM, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I believe we are insanely over protective and it's caused by the > information > age we live in. > > Think of it this way - some kid gets brutally murdered 2 states away, it's > all over the net, we read about it, send out millions of emails and we all > pull our children in closer. The same goes for Amber Alerts. It's a great > idea but what happens when one goes out? Again, we pull our children in > closer to protect them - usually against a criminal who has less than a 1 > in > 1,000,000 chance of actually getting close to our children? > > But if this had happened 50 years ago, the murder would have appeared in > next Sunday's paper, probably way back in section C or D. We would have > read > it, expressed some concern for the family & went on. Why? Because it's not > a > "local story" - it happened 2 states away! > > Thanks, > Tom Hargrave > www.kegkits.com > 256-656-1924 > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:58 PM > To: Banned List; Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: [MBZ] how the world has changed > > my kid informs me that she really wants to go to disney world. i explain > that disney world is a place i really hate, so she ought not hold her > breath. then she suggests that she can go to the park by herself and i > can > go find some other way to entertain myself during that time. i dismiss > the > idea immediately. > > when i think back though to when i was her age, i realize that is exactly > what would have happened had my parents taken me to disney. (my parents, > however, didn't venture more than about 100 miles from new york city, so > no > worries about this actually coming up). by the time i was in the fifth > grade, i was pretty much on my own. i walked to school in the morning and > back home in the afternoon. on days when there was no school, i'd leave > the > house to go out on the street in the late morning and come back at > dinnertime. i walked long distances to go places and would take the bus > or > subway on my own if i had the money to. all my friends lived this > lifestyle > as well and a complete lack of supervision seemed the norm. in fact, the > few children we did know who lived under parental supervision where > considered highly unusual both by us kids and by our parents. > > my dad left hungary after a dispute with the communists and their radical > expansion of power. europe, however, isn't really that big a place, so he > soon found himself living the life of a beach bum in southern italy. he > was > quite a dark skinned man and seemed able to spend all day in sea and sand > without any ill effects. i, on the other hand, burn easily and am > impatient > with just sitting in the sand all day. he came to new york and was a > beach > bum there as well and never lost his love of the beach. > > on summer saturdays we would go to jones beach along with 100,000 other > people. it is a large and well appointed place. i'd hang out with dad > for > half an hour or so, then disappear to find other activities. maybe i'd > swim > a couple of miles down the beach or maybe i'd go check out the basketball > courts. i'd return several hours later after having entertained myself > adequately . this was pretty normal. > > i'm still fond of the beach and take my kid whenever i can. she is never > out of my sight. > > my question is a simple one: were my parents' generation simply negligent > in their outlook or are we simply insanely overprotective? > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1200 - Release Date: > 12/27/2007 > 1:34 PM > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
Makes me glad that I don't live in the great state of Kalifornia. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John M McIntosh Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:47 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed On Dec 27, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Tom Hargrave wrote: > I believe we are insanely over protective and it's caused by the > information > age we live in. Ya, has all sorts of fallout. When we were in california, wanted to buy a bike for our 6 year old. Couldn't find one! Why well because bike riding on the street ISN"T safe, therefore no kids rode bikes, thus no market for bikes. Oh a bit older and you could buy mini-mountain bikes for $$$ because that is family supervised activity in some park somewhere... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1200 - Release Date: 12/27/2007 1:34 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
On Dec 27, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Tom Hargrave wrote: > I believe we are insanely over protective and it's caused by the > information > age we live in. Ya, has all sorts of fallout. When we were in california, wanted to buy a bike for our 6 year old. Couldn't find one! Why well because bike riding on the street ISN"T safe, therefore no kids rode bikes, thus no market for bikes. Oh a bit older and you could buy mini-mountain bikes for $$$ because that is family supervised activity in some park somewhere... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
I believe we are insanely over protective and it's caused by the information age we live in. Think of it this way - some kid gets brutally murdered 2 states away, it's all over the net, we read about it, send out millions of emails and we all pull our children in closer. The same goes for Amber Alerts. It's a great idea but what happens when one goes out? Again, we pull our children in closer to protect them - usually against a criminal who has less than a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of actually getting close to our children? But if this had happened 50 years ago, the murder would have appeared in next Sunday's paper, probably way back in section C or D. We would have read it, expressed some concern for the family & went on. Why? Because it's not a "local story" - it happened 2 states away! Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Hurst Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:58 PM To: Banned List; Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] how the world has changed my kid informs me that she really wants to go to disney world. i explain that disney world is a place i really hate, so she ought not hold her breath. then she suggests that she can go to the park by herself and i can go find some other way to entertain myself during that time. i dismiss the idea immediately. when i think back though to when i was her age, i realize that is exactly what would have happened had my parents taken me to disney. (my parents, however, didn't venture more than about 100 miles from new york city, so no worries about this actually coming up). by the time i was in the fifth grade, i was pretty much on my own. i walked to school in the morning and back home in the afternoon. on days when there was no school, i'd leave the house to go out on the street in the late morning and come back at dinnertime. i walked long distances to go places and would take the bus or subway on my own if i had the money to. all my friends lived this lifestyle as well and a complete lack of supervision seemed the norm. in fact, the few children we did know who lived under parental supervision where considered highly unusual both by us kids and by our parents. my dad left hungary after a dispute with the communists and their radical expansion of power. europe, however, isn't really that big a place, so he soon found himself living the life of a beach bum in southern italy. he was quite a dark skinned man and seemed able to spend all day in sea and sand without any ill effects. i, on the other hand, burn easily and am impatient with just sitting in the sand all day. he came to new york and was a beach bum there as well and never lost his love of the beach. on summer saturdays we would go to jones beach along with 100,000 other people. it is a large and well appointed place. i'd hang out with dad for half an hour or so, then disappear to find other activities. maybe i'd swim a couple of miles down the beach or maybe i'd go check out the basketball courts. i'd return several hours later after having entertained myself adequately . this was pretty normal. i'm still fond of the beach and take my kid whenever i can. she is never out of my sight. my question is a simple one: were my parents' generation simply negligent in their outlook or are we simply insanely overprotective? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1200 - Release Date: 12/27/2007 1:34 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
I don't have kids, but from my observations, I'd say the latter answer. Let your kid go to Disney and you go to a nearby beach-you have cell phones that our parents didn't have. I grew up in a rural area, but roamed all day. I remember a title of a book in the fifties or sixties, "Where do you go? Out. What Did you do? Nothing" I think we turned out ok-or some of us did. My $0.02. Dwight Bissell Cove Quahog & Auto Salvage Co Dwight E. Giles, Jr. Wickford RI 02852 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Hurst Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:58 PM To: Banned List; Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] how the world has changed my kid informs me that she really wants to go to disney world. i explain that disney world is a place i really hate, so she ought not hold her breath. then she suggests that she can go to the park by herself and i can go find some other way to entertain myself during that time. i dismiss the idea immediately. when i think back though to when i was her age, i realize that is exactly what would have happened had my parents taken me to disney. (my parents, however, didn't venture more than about 100 miles from new york city, so no worries about this actually coming up). by the time i was in the fifth grade, i was pretty much on my own. i walked to school in the morning and back home in the afternoon. on days when there was no school, i'd leave the house to go out on the street in the late morning and come back at dinnertime. i walked long distances to go places and would take the bus or subway on my own if i had the money to. all my friends lived this lifestyle as well and a complete lack of supervision seemed the norm. in fact, the few children we did know who lived under parental supervision where considered highly unusual both by us kids and by our parents. my dad left hungary after a dispute with the communists and their radical expansion of power. europe, however, isn't really that big a place, so he soon found himself living the life of a beach bum in southern italy. he was quite a dark skinned man and seemed able to spend all day in sea and sand without any ill effects. i, on the other hand, burn easily and am impatient with just sitting in the sand all day. he came to new york and was a beach bum there as well and never lost his love of the beach. on summer saturdays we would go to jones beach along with 100,000 other people. it is a large and well appointed place. i'd hang out with dad for half an hour or so, then disappear to find other activities. maybe i'd swim a couple of miles down the beach or maybe i'd go check out the basketball courts. i'd return several hours later after having entertained myself adequately . this was pretty normal. i'm still fond of the beach and take my kid whenever i can. she is never out of my sight. my question is a simple one: were my parents' generation simply negligent in their outlook or are we simply insanely overprotective? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
I think it was a more trusting world then, with much less obvious crime and a whole lot less child snatching, etc. However, the current crop of parents is grossly overprotective, too. Witness the advent of "helicopter" parents at colleges and universities. When I was in school, the LAST thing I would have done if I were doing poorly in a class was call my father to complain. He'd have offered to stop paying for school if I'd pulled a stunt like that, it was up to me to solve problems and get my backside into the seat in time for class, not his. Today, parents harass faculty and staff all the time on behalf of their kids. Things have changed. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
Hi, I moved cars (1 car trailer) to and from FL- Chicago 20 times in 16 years. Tax write off in order to vacation frugally?? When my girls were 5-10 they enjoyed all the theme parks. My wife and I enjoyed the live acts best. The theme parks are best viewed as food and exercise. Ed in Chicago 36Fdry Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: my kid informs me that she really wants to go to disney world. i explain that disney world is a place i really hate, so she ought not hold her breath. then she suggests that she can go to the park by herself and i can go find some other way to entertain myself during that time. i dismiss the idea immediately. when i think back though to when i was her age, i realize that is exactly what would have happened had my parents taken me to disney. (my parents, however, didn't venture more than about 100 miles from new york city, so no worries about this actually coming up). by the time i was in the fifth grade, i was pretty much on my own. i walked to school in the morning and back home in the afternoon. on days when there was no school, i'd leave the house to go out on the street in the late morning and come back at dinnertime. i walked long distances to go places and would take the bus or subway on my own if i had the money to. all my friends lived this lifestyle as well and a complete lack of supervision seemed the norm. in fact, the few children we did know who lived under parental supervision where considered highly unusual both by us kids and by our parents. my dad left hungary after a dispute with the communists and their radical expansion of power. europe, however, isn't really that big a place, so he soon found himself living the life of a beach bum in southern italy. he was quite a dark skinned man and seemed able to spend all day in sea and sand without any ill effects. i, on the other hand, burn easily and am impatient with just sitting in the sand all day. he came to new york and was a beach bum there as well and never lost his love of the beach. on summer saturdays we would go to jones beach along with 100,000 other people. it is a large and well appointed place. i'd hang out with dad for half an hour or so, then disappear to find other activities. maybe i'd swim a couple of miles down the beach or maybe i'd go check out the basketball courts. i'd return several hours later after having entertained myself adequately . this was pretty normal. i'm still fond of the beach and take my kid whenever i can. she is never out of my sight. my question is a simple one: were my parents' generation simply negligent in their outlook or are we simply insanely overprotective? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] how the world has changed
> my question is a simple one: were my parents' generation simply negligent > in their outlook or are we simply insanely overprotective? A little of both I think. Rick Knoble '85 300 CD '87 190 DT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] how the world has changed
my kid informs me that she really wants to go to disney world. i explain that disney world is a place i really hate, so she ought not hold her breath. then she suggests that she can go to the park by herself and i can go find some other way to entertain myself during that time. i dismiss the idea immediately. when i think back though to when i was her age, i realize that is exactly what would have happened had my parents taken me to disney. (my parents, however, didn't venture more than about 100 miles from new york city, so no worries about this actually coming up). by the time i was in the fifth grade, i was pretty much on my own. i walked to school in the morning and back home in the afternoon. on days when there was no school, i'd leave the house to go out on the street in the late morning and come back at dinnertime. i walked long distances to go places and would take the bus or subway on my own if i had the money to. all my friends lived this lifestyle as well and a complete lack of supervision seemed the norm. in fact, the few children we did know who lived under parental supervision where considered highly unusual both by us kids and by our parents. my dad left hungary after a dispute with the communists and their radical expansion of power. europe, however, isn't really that big a place, so he soon found himself living the life of a beach bum in southern italy. he was quite a dark skinned man and seemed able to spend all day in sea and sand without any ill effects. i, on the other hand, burn easily and am impatient with just sitting in the sand all day. he came to new york and was a beach bum there as well and never lost his love of the beach. on summer saturdays we would go to jones beach along with 100,000 other people. it is a large and well appointed place. i'd hang out with dad for half an hour or so, then disappear to find other activities. maybe i'd swim a couple of miles down the beach or maybe i'd go check out the basketball courts. i'd return several hours later after having entertained myself adequately . this was pretty normal. i'm still fond of the beach and take my kid whenever i can. she is never out of my sight. my question is a simple one: were my parents' generation simply negligent in their outlook or are we simply insanely overprotective? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
