Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-24 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes

Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Thats spec for most manual transmissions. My '88 GMC used the same.
The Jetta uses GL4 gear oil but the transmission on that FWD car is really a 
transaxle...


When my 1977 Saab was made, the spec was SAE 70 gear oil, I forget the GL 
number, but it was sulfur free and nearly odorless.
By the mid 1980s, the recomendation had changed to SAE 30 (or maybe 10W30, can't 
remember for sure) motor oil.
IIRC, it shifted a bit nicer with the proper (hard to find) gear oil than with 
5W30 M1 in it.


Chrysler's 1980s transaxles took motor oil in early years, then Dexron II or III 
later. AFAIK there was no mechanical change when the fluid changed. IIRC, my 
1989 Horizon was happier with 5W30  M1 than with the Dexron that the factory put 
in it.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-24 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Currently I've got Redline MTL and MT-90 mixed in the Jetta 50/50 but I'm 
thinking to switch it to all MTL this fall. The MTL is a little thinner and 
should shift easier in the cold. The factory VW stuff is very thin and can be 
noisy in older cars. The mix wasn't bad last winter but would be stiff for the 
first couple shifts at below zero temps.
I want to change again because the stuff that came out last fall was nasty and 
smelled bad. I've put 15,000 miles on the car and the trans is way quieter 
now...

Curt

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 24, 2014, at 10:11 AM, Mitch Haley mi...@mitchellhaley.com wrote:
 
 Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
 Thats spec for most manual transmissions. My '88 GMC used the same.
 The Jetta uses GL4 gear oil but the transmission on that FWD car is really a 
 transaxle...
 
 When my 1977 Saab was made, the spec was SAE 70 gear oil, I forget the GL 
 number, but it was sulfur free and nearly odorless.
 By the mid 1980s, the recomendation had changed to SAE 30 (or maybe 10W30, 
 can't remember for sure) motor oil.
 IIRC, it shifted a bit nicer with the proper (hard to find) gear oil than 
 with 5W30 M1 in it.
 
 Chrysler's 1980s transaxles took motor oil in early years, then Dexron II or 
 III later. AFAIK there was no mechanical change when the fluid changed. IIRC, 
 my 1989 Horizon was happier with 5W30  M1 than with the Dexron that the 
 factory put in it.
 
 Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-24 Thread ernest breakfield via Mercedes
Redline MTL has worked like magic in every stick box i've put it in; i 
wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.



cheers!
e


On 24/Jul/14 10:06, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Currently I've got Redline MTL and MT-90 mixed in the Jetta 50/50 but I'm 
thinking to switch it to all MTL this fall. The MTL is a little thinner and 
should shift easier in the cold. The factory VW stuff is very thin and can be 
noisy in older cars. The mix wasn't bad last winter but would be stiff for the 
first couple shifts at below zero temps.
I want to change again because the stuff that came out last fall was nasty and 
smelled bad. I've put 15,000 miles on the car and the trans is way quieter 
now...

Curt

Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 24, 2014, at 10:11 AM, Mitch Haley mi...@mitchellhaley.com wrote:

Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Thats spec for most manual transmissions. My '88 GMC used the same.
The Jetta uses GL4 gear oil but the transmission on that FWD car is really a 
transaxle...

When my 1977 Saab was made, the spec was SAE 70 gear oil, I forget the GL 
number, but it was sulfur free and nearly odorless.
By the mid 1980s, the recomendation had changed to SAE 30 (or maybe 10W30, 
can't remember for sure) motor oil.
IIRC, it shifted a bit nicer with the proper (hard to find) gear oil than with 
5W30 M1 in it.

Chrysler's 1980s transaxles took motor oil in early years, then Dexron II or 
III later. AFAIK there was no mechanical change when the fluid changed. IIRC, 
my 1989 Horizon was happier with 5W30  M1 than with the Dexron that the factory 
put in it.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-24 Thread Gary Hurst via Mercedes
i used MTL in both my VW rabbit and 220D with good results


On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 2:36 PM, ernest breakfield via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Redline MTL has worked like magic in every stick box i've put it in; i
 wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.


 cheers!
 e



 On 24/Jul/14 10:06, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 Currently I've got Redline MTL and MT-90 mixed in the Jetta 50/50 but I'm
 thinking to switch it to all MTL this fall. The MTL is a little thinner and
 should shift easier in the cold. The factory VW stuff is very thin and can
 be noisy in older cars. The mix wasn't bad last winter but would be stiff
 for the first couple shifts at below zero temps.
 I want to change again because the stuff that came out last fall was
 nasty and smelled bad. I've put 15,000 miles on the car and the trans is
 way quieter now...

 Curt

 Sent from my iPhone

  On Jul 24, 2014, at 10:11 AM, Mitch Haley mi...@mitchellhaley.com
 wrote:

 Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 Thats spec for most manual transmissions. My '88 GMC used the same.
 The Jetta uses GL4 gear oil but the transmission on that FWD car is
 really a transaxle...

 When my 1977 Saab was made, the spec was SAE 70 gear oil, I forget the
 GL number, but it was sulfur free and nearly odorless.
 By the mid 1980s, the recomendation had changed to SAE 30 (or maybe
 10W30, can't remember for sure) motor oil.
 IIRC, it shifted a bit nicer with the proper (hard to find) gear oil
 than with 5W30 M1 in it.

 Chrysler's 1980s transaxles took motor oil in early years, then Dexron
 II or III later. AFAIK there was no mechanical change when the fluid
 changed. IIRC, my 1989 Horizon was happier with 5W30  M1 than with the
 Dexron that the factory put in it.

 Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-24 Thread Fmiser via Mercedes
 Max wrote:
 
 +1 on the M1 ATF.  Definitely sounds like it may help your
 transmission.

Dwight wrote:
   
I also used M 1 gear oil in manny tranny of my stick 240D.

   Craig wrote:
  
   Use only ATF in Mercedes manual transmissions. Gear oil will
   damage them.

  Dwight wrote:
 
  Is that spec for 78 240D? MB indy shop put it in.

 Curt wrote:
 
 Thats spec for most manual transmissions.

Curious.  The manual transmissions I'm familiar with are either
old, heavy duty, or Mercedes.  And the W123 all use Dexron II for
the manual transmission.

My GM 4-speed pickup (117 mm) requires 80W90 GL-5 gear oil.  The
big truck transmissions I'm familiar with use either 50W or
75-80W90 gear oil.

I just checked my '85 GM factory service manual.  The 3-speed and
the small 4-speed use DexronII.  The big 117mm 4-speed uses 80W90.

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-24 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Was that for big trucks? My '88 was only an S15...

-Curt



 From: Fmiser via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue
 

 Max wrote:
 
 +1 on the M1 ATF.  Definitely sounds like it may help your
 transmission.

Dwight wrote:
   
I also used M 1 gear oil in manny tranny of my stick 240D.

   Craig wrote:
  
   Use only ATF in Mercedes manual transmissions. Gear oil will
   damage them.

  Dwight wrote:
 
  Is that spec for 78 240D? MB indy shop put it in.

 Curt wrote:
 
 Thats spec for most manual transmissions.

Curious.  The manual transmissions I'm familiar with are either
old, heavy duty, or Mercedes.  And the W123 all use Dexron II for
the manual transmission.

My GM 4-speed pickup (117 mm) requires 80W90 GL-5 gear oil.  The
big truck transmissions I'm familiar with use either 50W or
75-80W90 gear oil.

I just checked my '85 GM factory service manual.  The 3-speed and
the small 4-speed use DexronII.  The big 117mm 4-speed uses 80W90.




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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-24 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes

Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

Was that for big trucks? My '88 was only an S15...


S-15s used the Tremec T-5, same as the Mustangs/Camaros etc.
Except I don't think the company was called Tremec in 1988.
I assume the T-5 was an ATF box.
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-24 Thread Fmiser via Mercedes
  Dwight wrote:
 
  I also used M 1 gear oil in manny tranny of my stick
  240D.

 Craig wrote:

 Use only ATF in Mercedes manual transmissions. Gear oil
 will damage them.

Dwight wrote:
   
Is that spec for 78 240D? MB indy shop put it in.

   Curt wrote:
   
   Thats spec for most manual transmissions.

 Fmiser wrote:
 
 Curious.  The manual transmissions I'm familiar with are either
 old, heavy duty, or Mercedes.  And the W123 all use Dexron II for
 the manual transmission.
 
 My GM 4-speed pickup (117 mm) requires 80W90 GL-5 gear oil.  The
 big truck transmissions I'm familiar with use either 50W or
 75-80W90 gear oil.
 
 I just checked my '85 GM factory service manual.  The 3-speed and
 the small 4-speed use DexronII.  The big 117mm 4-speed uses 80W90.

 Curt wrote:
 
 Was that for big trucks? My '88 was only an S15...

The term big truck to me means class 7 or greater.  The 117mm
transmission (also called SM465) wasn't ever used in those.  It was
used in 1/2 ton (class 1), and maybe through the 2-ton (class 3) -
which are typically referred to as light duty.  So big as
compared to the mini-pickups, but not really a big truck. *smiles*

--   Philip, who once earned a living driving big trucks

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-23 Thread Gary Hurst via Mercedes
as for fluid, i'd try some trick shift


On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 8:35 AM, rogerhga--- via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Question for the list:
 Last year I had a used tranny installed in my 1980 300SD. The tranny was
 from a recycler in AZ. It supposedly only had 95K on it. My indie installed
 it. He said everything looked good and really clean, but it had been
 sitting in a really dry environment for who knows how long.
 So, the issue, it slips when shifting once it gets warm/hot. When it's
 first cold, it shifts fine. Once hot, if you let if shift at low RPMs, it
 shifts fine. If you give it hard acceleration up to about 35 mph and let
 off, it will jump from 1st to 4th and bypass 2/3 and shift fine that way.
 At 35 mph, 4th gear is fine for acceleration to driving speed. My indie
 felt that I should just keep driving it and hope the internal seals would
 get saturated and then it would start shifting fine. It has not.
 Now, my question is: 1) Should I try synthetic fluid to see if it will
 swell the seals, 2) try some of the MacParts trans medic solutions, 3) is
 this an issue that could be repaired reasonably? Again, my indie, like
 most, like to swap parts, not repair parts. Otherwise, it is and has been a
 good car.
 Any thoughts or suggestions that would help would be greatly appreciated.
 Best Wishes,
 Roger

 Roger Hale
 Dinnerware Classics, Inc.
 Monroe, Ga.
 770-267-0850
 www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new)
 www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique)

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-23 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
Roger, quick reply. I have used M1 ATF in 3 MB trannies. 1 is still In
Progress but shifts better, flaring stopped, downshift clunks gone etc.
Miracle fluid. Fred said it might take 10k miles to feel difference. My 90
has 239k miles on original tranny- last 110k on M1  shifrs like new. YMMV
On Jul 23, 2014 8:36 AM, rogerhga--- via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 Question for the list:
 Last year I had a used tranny installed in my 1980 300SD. The tranny was
 from a recycler in AZ. It supposedly only had 95K on it. My indie installed
 it. He said everything looked good and really clean, but it had been
 sitting in a really dry environment for who knows how long.
 So, the issue, it slips when shifting once it gets warm/hot. When it's
 first cold, it shifts fine. Once hot, if you let if shift at low RPMs, it
 shifts fine. If you give it hard acceleration up to about 35 mph and let
 off, it will jump from 1st to 4th and bypass 2/3 and shift fine that way.
 At 35 mph, 4th gear is fine for acceleration to driving speed. My indie
 felt that I should just keep driving it and hope the internal seals would
 get saturated and then it would start shifting fine. It has not.
 Now, my question is: 1) Should I try synthetic fluid to see if it will
 swell the seals, 2) try some of the MacParts trans medic solutions, 3) is
 this an issue that could be repaired reasonably? Again, my indie, like
 most, like to swap parts, not repair parts. Otherwise, it is and has been a
 good car.
 Any thoughts or suggestions that would help would be greatly appreciated.
 Best Wishes,
 Roger

 Roger Hale
 Dinnerware Classics, Inc.
 Monroe, Ga.
 770-267-0850
 www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new)
 www.southernnightsantiques.com (antique)

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-23 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
+1 on the M1 ATF.  Definitely sounds like it may help your transmission.

Max Dillon,
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-23 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
I also used M 1 gear oil in manny tranny of my stick 240D.
+1 on the M1 ATF.  Definitely sounds like it may help your transmission.

Max Dillon,
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-23 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:49:58 -0400 Dwight Giles via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 I also used M 1 gear oil in manny tranny of my stick 240D.
 +1 on the M1 ATF.  Definitely sounds like it may help your transmission.

Use only ATF in Mercedes manual transmissions. Gear oil will damage them.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-23 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
Is that spec for 78 240D? MB indy shop put it in.
On Jul 23, 2014 6:47 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote:

 On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:49:58 -0400 Dwight Giles via Mercedes
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  I also used M 1 gear oil in manny tranny of my stick 240D.
  +1 on the M1 ATF.  Definitely sounds like it may help your transmission.

 Use only ATF in Mercedes manual transmissions. Gear oil will damage them.


 Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-23 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
ATF is, I don't know about M1, though I did use it in the '70 220D, '81
240D, and '84 190D - all with manual tranny's.


On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Is that spec for 78 240D? MB indy shop put it in.

  On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:49:58 -0400 Dwight Giles via Mercedes
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
   I also used M 1 gear oil in manny tranny of my stick 240D.
   +1 on the M1 ATF.  Definitely sounds like it may help your
 transmission.
 
  Use only ATF in Mercedes manual transmissions. Gear oil will damage them.
 
 
  Craig



-- 
OK Don

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for themselves.

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2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-23 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
My brother had it done so I will check records. Tranny wss fine. This is
the deadhead 240D curt has.
On Jul 23, 2014 8:09 PM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote:

 ATF is, I don't know about M1, though I did use it in the '70 220D, '81
 240D, and '84 190D - all with manual tranny's.


 On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Is that spec for 78 240D? MB indy shop put it in.

  On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:49:58 -0400 Dwight Giles via Mercedes
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
   I also used M 1 gear oil in manny tranny of my stick 240D.
   +1 on the M1 ATF.  Definitely sounds like it may help your
 transmission.
 
  Use only ATF in Mercedes manual transmissions. Gear oil will damage
 them.
 
 
  Craig



 --
 OK Don

 NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

 There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
 who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric
 fence for themselves.

 WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
 2013 F150, 18 mpg
 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-23 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:46:40 -0400 Dwight Giles via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Is that spec for 78 240D? MB indy shop put it in.

Sounds like you need to find a new indy shop.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue

2014-07-23 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Thats spec for most manual transmissions. My '88 GMC used the same.
The Jetta uses GL4 gear oil but the transmission on that FWD car is really a 
transaxle...

-Curt



 From: Dwight Giles via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1980 300SD Tranny Issue
 

Is that spec for 78 240D? MB indy shop put it in.



On Jul 23, 2014 6:47 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote:

 On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:49:58 -0400 Dwight Giles via Mercedes
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  I also used M 1 gear oil in manny tranny of my stick 240D.
  +1 on the M1 ATF.  Definitely sounds like it may help your transmission.

 Use only ATF in Mercedes manual transmissions. Gear oil will damage them.


 Craig

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