Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Nope. A good portion of them are, but I’m sure the total is less than half. They’re very expensive, require additional structural support due to their weight, and are expensive to maintain *if* you have any issues. And they’re not much better, if at all, when it comes to hurricanes. The best possible roof choice in Florida is metal, but they’re not that popular in commodity style (suburban) homes, mainly because of the aesthetics. Figure tile or metal being twice the cost of an asphalt shingle roof as a ballpark. -D > On Jul 19, 2022, at 12:26 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes > wrote: > > Aren't most Florida roofs spanish tile? > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022, at 2:13 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: >> A lot depends on the climate, too. Maybe where Randy lives they’ll last >> that long, but in Florida the average roof life is 20 years. >> >> -D >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Aren't most Florida roofs spanish tile? On Tue, Jul 19, 2022, at 2:13 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: > A lot depends on the climate, too. Maybe where Randy lives they’ll last > that long, but in Florida the average roof life is 20 years. > > -D > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Doubt it, if I have my way we'll be moving to the great northern estate inside of 10 years. Even if that doesn't happen this isn't our forever house. At some point in the next 20 or so years I expect to be responsible for, if not own outright 4 houses. Ours in MA, the great northern estate, my parents place and Angie's parents place. Her parents place will be a quick flip, she hates the place. My parent's house could be worth substantial money but it will need a bunch of work. At the very least disposing of all their stuff will be a substantial job. -Curt On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 02:10:11 PM EDT, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: Roof shingles today will not last 40 years, regardless of what the warranty claims are. 20 years at best so it might be your problem! Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 19, 2022, at 12:35 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes > wrote: > > The architectural shingles on our roof have a 40 year warranty. Definitely > will be somebody else's problem. > > As I understand it the feet of the PV mounts slip up under the shingles. The > mounts are pretty standardized at this point which has helped reduce costs of > installation. The people across the street got an array last year, the > installers worked in a snowstorm to put on the racks, then populated the next > day. > > -Curt > > > On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 12:25:36 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes > wrote: > > > I have always wondered how the panels get attached to your roof without > damaging the roof and how much more it will cost when you need to > replace the roof and the panels have to be removed and re-installed. I > guess if you are old enough, it will be someone else's problem. A roof > should last 25 years. Maybe the panels won't last that long. > > Randy > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
A lot depends on the climate, too. Maybe where Randy lives they’ll last that long, but in Florida the average roof life is 20 years. -D > On Jul 19, 2022, at 11:10 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes > wrote: > > Roof shingles today will not last 40 years, regardless of what the warranty > claims are. 20 years at best so it might be your problem! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 19, 2022, at 12:35 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> The architectural shingles on our roof have a 40 year warranty. Definitely >> will be somebody else's problem. >> >> As I understand it the feet of the PV mounts slip up under the shingles. The >> mounts are pretty standardized at this point which has helped reduce costs >> of installation. The people across the street got an array last year, the >> installers worked in a snowstorm to put on the racks, then populated the >> next day. >> >> -Curt >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 12:25:36 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> >> I have always wondered how the panels get attached to your roof without >> damaging the roof and how much more it will cost when you need to >> replace the roof and the panels have to be removed and re-installed. I >> guess if you are old enough, it will be someone else's problem. A roof >> should last 25 years. Maybe the panels won't last that long. >> >> Randy >> >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Roof shingles today will not last 40 years, regardless of what the warranty claims are. 20 years at best so it might be your problem! Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 19, 2022, at 12:35 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes > wrote: > > The architectural shingles on our roof have a 40 year warranty. Definitely > will be somebody else's problem. > > As I understand it the feet of the PV mounts slip up under the shingles. The > mounts are pretty standardized at this point which has helped reduce costs of > installation. The people across the street got an array last year, the > installers worked in a snowstorm to put on the racks, then populated the next > day. > > -Curt > > > On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 12:25:36 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes > wrote: > > > I have always wondered how the panels get attached to your roof without > damaging the roof and how much more it will cost when you need to > replace the roof and the panels have to be removed and re-installed. I > guess if you are old enough, it will be someone else's problem. A roof > should last 25 years. Maybe the panels won't last that long. > > Randy > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
On 2022-07-19 13:31, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote: I thought the cars had a display (or a way to display) the battery capacity, and/or number of "full charge cycles" which will also tell you something about how the battery has been treated. Maybe not all of them do That's a free estimate of the overall condition. I know that on a ten year old Leaf you can tell the rough capacity loss by turning on the 'ignition' and looking at the battery gauge in the instrument panel. There's a 12 bar display, for both current state and total capacity, 8.3% per bar. Individual cell numbers, comparable to testing compression in all cylinders of an IC engine, that'll take a diagnostic tool and some time. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
True. 6 yo Tesla has lost 25% of its battery range. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 1:32 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022, at 12:24 PM, mitch--- via Mercedes wrote: > > > The equivalent of a compression check would be a battery capacity test. > > It takes a while, requires a tech with some training on the EV software, > > and probably costs you multiple hundreds of dollars. > > I'm guessing $200-400 in a world where my local MBZ dealer wants $122 > > just to plug in the SDS and clear my transmission codes. > > I thought the cars had a display (or a way to display) the battery > capacity, and/or number of "full charge cycles" which will also tell you > something about how the battery has been treated. Maybe not all of them > do > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
On Tue, Jul 19, 2022, at 12:24 PM, mitch--- via Mercedes wrote: > The equivalent of a compression check would be a battery capacity test. > It takes a while, requires a tech with some training on the EV software, > and probably costs you multiple hundreds of dollars. > I'm guessing $200-400 in a world where my local MBZ dealer wants $122 > just to plug in the SDS and clear my transmission codes. I thought the cars had a display (or a way to display) the battery capacity, and/or number of "full charge cycles" which will also tell you something about how the battery has been treated. Maybe not all of them do ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
On 2022-07-19 12:24, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: This is a no brainer. The panels are already powering the house and then some. I would spend no more for the EV than I would for a gas powered car, and would drive it no more than 6k miles/year. Not sure about maintenance costs or resale value. Maintenance costs are near zero until you need tires/brakes/suspension/batteries. Brakes: corrosion will get them in Michigan long before wear does, regenerative braking can nearly eliminate brake wear if you don't drive like a fool. Batteries: if you drive 6kmi per year, annual deterioration is going to be right up there with annual fuel costs for a gas/diesel vehicle. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
On 2022-07-19 12:26, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: 4. Unlike Internal Combustion powered cars, where the tech can do compression checks, oil lab tests, etc, and gain a reasonable picture of the remaining service life of various components, the tech level does not yet exist, with supporting tools, to do a proper due diligence independent inspection of an EV.. The equivalent of a compression check would be a battery capacity test. It takes a while, requires a tech with some training on the EV software, and probably costs you multiple hundreds of dollars. I'm guessing $200-400 in a world where my local MBZ dealer wants $122 just to plug in the SDS and clear my transmission codes. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Documented 4.3% over the last 8 years in my area. That’s what a solar system adds in value to homes around here. That more than covers the cost, if it mattered. -D > On Jul 19, 2022, at 9:39 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes > wrote: > > And this will add resale value when or if you sell. > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:35 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> The architectural shingles on our roof have a 40 year warranty. Definitely >> will be somebody else's problem. >> >> As I understand it the feet of the PV mounts slip up under the shingles. >> The mounts are pretty standardized at this point which has helped reduce >> costs of installation. The people across the street got an array last year, >> the installers worked in a snowstorm to put on the racks, then populated >> the next day. >> >> -Curt >> >> >> On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 12:25:36 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >> >> >> I have always wondered how the panels get attached to your roof without >> damaging the roof and how much more it will cost when you need to >> replace the roof and the panels have to be removed and re-installed. I >> guess if you are old enough, it will be someone else's problem. A roof >> should last 25 years. Maybe the panels won't last that long. >> >> Randy >> >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
And this will add resale value when or if you sell. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:35 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > The architectural shingles on our roof have a 40 year warranty. Definitely > will be somebody else's problem. > > As I understand it the feet of the PV mounts slip up under the shingles. > The mounts are pretty standardized at this point which has helped reduce > costs of installation. The people across the street got an array last year, > the installers worked in a snowstorm to put on the racks, then populated > the next day. > > -Curt > > > On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 12:25:36 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > I have always wondered how the panels get attached to your roof without > damaging the roof and how much more it will cost when you need to > replace the roof and the panels have to be removed and re-installed. I > guess if you are old enough, it will be someone else's problem. A roof > should last 25 years. Maybe the panels won't last that long. > > Randy > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
The architectural shingles on our roof have a 40 year warranty. Definitely will be somebody else's problem. As I understand it the feet of the PV mounts slip up under the shingles. The mounts are pretty standardized at this point which has helped reduce costs of installation. The people across the street got an array last year, the installers worked in a snowstorm to put on the racks, then populated the next day. -Curt On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 12:25:36 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: I have always wondered how the panels get attached to your roof without damaging the roof and how much more it will cost when you need to replace the roof and the panels have to be removed and re-installed. I guess if you are old enough, it will be someone else's problem. A roof should last 25 years. Maybe the panels won't last that long. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
I replaced the back roof before installing the panels. They are simple to detach in any case. For the front array, in 6 years there has never been any problem affecting the roof. In fact, since the panels shade the shingles that ought to increase life span. Solar installers are not in short supply although there is a learning curve with any new technology. As solar installations grow, so will the labor supply. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:27 PM G Mann via Mercedes wrote: > Doing a proper pre-buy due diligence inspection on any EV in the present > "used market" is impossible, as a reality. Here are a few of the reasons. > 1. Lack of available properly trained and available techs. > 2. Lack of available testing equipment that tests actual operational values > at the component level. > 3. Lack of replacement parts in the EV supply chain, as in this case, where > there is NO replacement battery to be purchased, at any price. > 4. Unlike Internal Combustion powered cars, where the tech can do > compression checks, oil lab tests, etc, and gain a reasonable picture of > the remaining service life of various components, the tech level does not > yet exist, with supporting tools, to do a proper due diligence independent > inspection of an EV.. EV dealerships and factories have their own supply > chain issues and rules for factory support of cars sold, then resold. Many > which are not "Used Buyer Friendly".. Tesla, I understand, simply black > lists cars they do not wish to continue to support and refuses to sell > parts for that serial number, ever.. such as trying to rebuild a wrecked > Tesla... > Imagine if the Model T sales had been handled in that way. Would Ford have > sold millions of Model T's? > EV's have a long way to travel to reach consumer confidence, IMHO. > > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 5:22 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > > > https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Got my quotes on Friday, waiting for the hard copies today. Roughly $23k to do the panels on my garage, ROI in slightly more than 7 years. $3k of that is the cost for trenching and cabling to the house where the meter is located. If I did it on the main house it would be cheaper, but there’s a high probability that we’ll be doing some renovation in the future that will affect the house and could change the roofline, hence the idea of using the garage - plus the garage has better exposure. Based on current APS rates it should cover our power needs at least 9 months out of the year if not more. If I clear a few trees I’ll get another 10-12% out of the array, and could even possibly add a few more panels. The array uses microinverter panels, too, which is nice. Being a member of the coop also pushes the warranty out to 30 years, normally 25. I need a new roof, too, so that means I can wrap that into the work and get the 26% tax credit on the roof installation, too. AZ does a KWH credit rather than net metering. They review it every September. Right now it’s $0.10 and change per KWH, and that’s locked in for the life of the system. If I commit before the 1st of September I’ll get that amount. Mrs. Dan is the number cruncher, so I’ve got to have her review the proposals and see what she thinks. If it looks good, then we’ll likely go forward with it. -D > On Jul 19, 2022, at 8:58 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes > wrote: > > We have a pretty decent net meter deal in MD with Pepco. > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 11:56 AM Curt Raymond wrote: > >> Depends on how much electricity you're creating. If your solar array is >> making way more than you use then I agree. >> >> -Curt >> >> On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 11:54:52 AM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel < >> astrasfo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I will be getting my solar EV charger hookup in September, after which it >> would be dumb not to own an EV. >> >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 11:51 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>> They bought a 9 year old EV and are shocked it needed a battery... >>> >>> I'm pro EV but that's just dumb. >>> >>> It's worse because it's a 2014, that's a very early model, I bet they >> didn't sell very many... >>> >>> -Curt >>> >>> On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 08:26:53 AM EDT, dan penoff.com via >> Mercedes wrote: >>> >>> It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this >> when making a $10,000+ purchase? >>> >>> I would. >>> >>> -D >>> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >> https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Doing a proper pre-buy due diligence inspection on any EV in the present "used market" is impossible, as a reality. Here are a few of the reasons. 1. Lack of available properly trained and available techs. 2. Lack of available testing equipment that tests actual operational values at the component level. 3. Lack of replacement parts in the EV supply chain, as in this case, where there is NO replacement battery to be purchased, at any price. 4. Unlike Internal Combustion powered cars, where the tech can do compression checks, oil lab tests, etc, and gain a reasonable picture of the remaining service life of various components, the tech level does not yet exist, with supporting tools, to do a proper due diligence independent inspection of an EV.. EV dealerships and factories have their own supply chain issues and rules for factory support of cars sold, then resold. Many which are not "Used Buyer Friendly".. Tesla, I understand, simply black lists cars they do not wish to continue to support and refuses to sell parts for that serial number, ever.. such as trying to rebuild a wrecked Tesla... Imagine if the Model T sales had been handled in that way. Would Ford have sold millions of Model T's? EV's have a long way to travel to reach consumer confidence, IMHO. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 5:22 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ > > Sent from my iPhone > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
On 19/07/2022 11:17 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote: There are many other factors. How much do you drive? What is the payback time for the "free" solar power to offset fuel costs of your current vehicle? What is the opportunity cost (what else could you do with the money other than buy an EV)? What are the differences in registration and insurance and financing (if any) costs? Basically you have to look at total cost of ownership of the solar array, EV charging apparatus, and the EV itself compared to the total cost of ownership of the vehicle the EV is replacing. I have always wondered how the panels get attached to your roof without damaging the roof and how much more it will cost when you need to replace the roof and the panels have to be removed and re-installed. I guess if you are old enough, it will be someone else's problem. A roof should last 25 years. Maybe the panels won't last that long. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
This is a no brainer. The panels are already powering the house and then some. I would spend no more for the EV than I would for a gas powered car, and would drive it no more than 6k miles/year. Not sure about maintenance costs or resale value. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:18 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > There are many other factors. How much do you drive? What is the payback > time for the "free" solar power to offset fuel costs of your current > vehicle? What is the opportunity cost (what else could you do with the > money other than buy an EV)? What are the differences in registration and > insurance and financing (if any) costs? > > Basically you have to look at total cost of ownership of the solar array, > EV charging apparatus, and the EV itself compared to the total cost of > ownership of the vehicle the EV is replacing. > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: > > Depends on how much electricity you're creating. If your solar array is > > making way more than you use then I agree. > > > > -Curt > > > > On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 11:54:52 AM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel > > wrote: > > > > I will be getting my solar EV charger hookup in September, after which > > it would be dumb not to own an EV. > > > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 11:51 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes > > wrote: > >> They bought a 9 year old EV and are shocked it needed a battery... > >> > >> I'm pro EV but that's just dumb. > >> > >> It's worse because it's a 2014, that's a very early model, I bet they > didn't sell very many... > >> > >> -Curt > >> > >> On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 08:26:53 AM EDT, dan penoff.com via > Mercedes wrote: > >> > >> It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this > when making a $10,000+ purchase? > >> > >> I would. > >> > >> -D > >> > >>> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> > https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> ___ > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com > >>> > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >>> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > >>> > >> > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > >> > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
There are many other factors. How much do you drive? What is the payback time for the "free" solar power to offset fuel costs of your current vehicle? What is the opportunity cost (what else could you do with the money other than buy an EV)? What are the differences in registration and insurance and financing (if any) costs? Basically you have to look at total cost of ownership of the solar array, EV charging apparatus, and the EV itself compared to the total cost of ownership of the vehicle the EV is replacing. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: > Depends on how much electricity you're creating. If your solar array is > making way more than you use then I agree. > > -Curt > > On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 11:54:52 AM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel > wrote: > > I will be getting my solar EV charger hookup in September, after which > it would be dumb not to own an EV. > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 11:51 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes > wrote: >> They bought a 9 year old EV and are shocked it needed a battery... >> >> I'm pro EV but that's just dumb. >> >> It's worse because it's a 2014, that's a very early model, I bet they didn't >> sell very many... >> >> -Curt >> >> On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 08:26:53 AM EDT, dan penoff.com via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this when >> making a $10,000+ purchase? >> >> I would. >> >> -D >> >>> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> >>> https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >>> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
We have a pretty decent net meter deal in MD with Pepco. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 11:56 AM Curt Raymond wrote: > Depends on how much electricity you're creating. If your solar array is > making way more than you use then I agree. > > -Curt > > On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 11:54:52 AM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel < > astrasfo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I will be getting my solar EV charger hookup in September, after which it > would be dumb not to own an EV. > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 11:51 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > They bought a 9 year old EV and are shocked it needed a battery... > > > > I'm pro EV but that's just dumb. > > > > It's worse because it's a 2014, that's a very early model, I bet they > didn't sell very many... > > > > -Curt > > > > On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 08:26:53 AM EDT, dan penoff.com via > Mercedes wrote: > > > > It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this > when making a $10,000+ purchase? > > > > I would. > > > > -D > > > >> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> > >> > https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > >> > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Depends on how much electricity you're creating. If your solar array is making way more than you use then I agree. -Curt On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 11:54:52 AM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: I will be getting my solar EV charger hookup in September, after which it would be dumb not to own an EV. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 11:51 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: > They bought a 9 year old EV and are shocked it needed a battery... > > I'm pro EV but that's just dumb. > > It's worse because it's a 2014, that's a very early model, I bet they didn't > sell very many... > > -Curt > > On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 08:26:53 AM EDT, dan penoff.com via Mercedes > wrote: > > It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this when > making a $10,000+ purchase? > > I would. > > -D > >> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
I will be getting my solar EV charger hookup in September, after which it would be dumb not to own an EV. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 11:51 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > They bought a 9 year old EV and are shocked it needed a battery... > > I'm pro EV but that's just dumb. > > It's worse because it's a 2014, that's a very early model, I bet they > didn't sell very many... > > -Curt > > On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 08:26:53 AM EDT, dan penoff.com via Mercedes > wrote: > > It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this > when making a $10,000+ purchase? > > I would. > > -D > > > On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > > https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
They bought a 9 year old EV and are shocked it needed a battery... I'm pro EV but that's just dumb. It's worse because it's a 2014, that's a very early model, I bet they didn't sell very many... -Curt On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 08:26:53 AM EDT, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this when making a $10,000+ purchase? I would. -D > On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes > wrote: > > https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ > > Sent from my iPhone > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
On 2022-07-19 10:04, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote: I am pretty sure the Ford Focus EV was only sold in California and maybe Washington. How one ended up in Florida I don't know. They have a fairly low range; it almost certainly was not driven there. First you had to sell in CA, then by 2015 you had to sell in OR and MD (or buy credits from Tesla). At the time, the real EVs were Tesla S and Y and Datsun Leaf. I think the Focus had a little better EV range than a Volt, but the Volt also had a ten gallon gas tank. I don't recall anything having 80+ mile published range other than Tesla/Leaf/Spark in those days. And of course if you ran it near the published range every day you'd destroy the battery in short order. I wouldn't have considered doing a 74 mile commute in a 82 mile Spark if I didn't have the ability to charge near my workplace. The others were just stuffing electric motors in existing economy cars, and only GM's Spark had a decent powertrain design (hampered by 3.3kW level 2 charging, but most of the 2015-2016 models had the optional $800 level 3 socket). GM's Spark was the beta test model for the Bolt, which was quite advanced for 2017. As a result, the Leaf was a decent transportation appliance with every piece built to work with every other piece. The Spark was a better EV than the Leaf, but as a complete car not as nice as a Leaf, and everything else from that era is not worth having in my opinion. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
I am pretty sure the Ford Focus EV was only sold in California and maybe Washington. How one ended up in Florida I don't know. They have a fairly low range; it almost certainly was not driven there. On Tue, Jul 19, 2022, at 8:59 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: > Agreed. But the availability of such a major and critical component had > to be known at the time. The supply chain for batteries for this model > didn’t suddenly stop one day, it had to be known that they either > weren’t available or the stock was nearly exhausted. It was just a > matter of doing some research. If I was considering an EV for purchase, > I would certainly be checking out the availability and/or repairability > of the battery. > > I’ve seen a few DIY articles and videos about repairing battery packs > on Prius’, for example, so I know there’s a possibility for repair or > refurbishment on them. For a car that’s nearly 10 years old like this > Ford I’m sure there’s plenty of information out there on the batteries > - this certainly isn’t the first one to fail and not be replaced. > > I had a bean counter friend who bought one of the early Prius’. They > drove it until the battery pack was ready to puke, then were unhappy > that the trade in value was in the basement as a result. It thoroughly > blew his numbers out that he expected. They bought an E-Class vergasser > after that and swore they would never own an EV again. > > -D > >> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:50 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> There was nothing wrong with the car when they bought it and when the >> problem surfaced 6 months later, it was unrepairable. This is unacceptable >> for an 8 yr old car built by a major manufacturer. Problems like this will >> continue to happen with EVs. That’s what happens when cars are >> disposable. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 19, 2022, at 8:26 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> >>> It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this >>> when making a $10,000+ purchase? >>> >>> I would. >>> >>> -D >>> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote: https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
The original Prius had a bazillion garden variety NiMH cells available from any number of places, even Amazon.com. Fixing it differed only in quantity from testing and replacing individual cells in a NiCad or NiMH cordless drill. Things get a little more complicated with a big Lithium battery, but there should be ways IF you can procure matching cells. I know that in GDS you could computer map the individual cells' performance in a Volt/Spark/Bolt, but I don't know if it would tell you where cell number 387 was. The factory method of dealing with it was to install an entire new battery. Clearly the solution to a low volume car like a Focus, Fit, or 500 is to seek out aftermarket rebuilders using cells from scrap cars if there is no reasonably priced factory support. And a big part of the solution is to not abuse the battery in the first place. Don't charge it fully if you aren't going to drive it in the next hour or two, don't let it run down below 20%, and try not to let it get hot. Buying it as a first car for a teenager is as bad as giving the kid a phone with a permanent battery. Expect it to get run dead on a daily basis, and in a few months it'll become nearly useless. On 2022-07-19 08:59, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: I’ve seen a few DIY articles and videos about repairing battery packs on Prius’, for example, so I know there’s a possibility for repair or refurbishment on them. For a car that’s nearly 10 years old like this Ford I’m sure there’s plenty of information out there on the batteries - this certainly isn’t the first one to fail and not be replaced. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
I’ll wait until the D class comes out, Larger batteries are easier to handle! Hahaha!Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 19, 2022, at 9:05 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes > wrote: > > https://vimeo.com/481367023 > >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 8:00 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >> >> Agreed. But the availability of such a major and critical component had to >> be known at the time. The supply chain for batteries for this model didn’t >> suddenly stop one day, it had to be known that they either weren’t >> available or the stock was nearly exhausted. It was just a matter of doing >> some research. If I was considering an EV for purchase, I would certainly >> be checking out the availability and/or repairability of the battery. >> >> I’ve seen a few DIY articles and videos about repairing battery packs on >> Prius’, for example, so I know there’s a possibility for repair or >> refurbishment on them. For a car that’s nearly 10 years old like this Ford >> I’m sure there’s plenty of information out there on the batteries - this >> certainly isn’t the first one to fail and not be replaced. >> >> I had a bean counter friend who bought one of the early Prius’. They drove >> it until the battery pack was ready to puke, then were unhappy that the >> trade in value was in the basement as a result. It thoroughly blew his >> numbers out that he expected. They bought an E-Class vergasser after that >> and swore they would never own an EV again. >> >> -D >> >>> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:50 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>> >>> There was nothing wrong with the car when they bought it and when the >> problem surfaced 6 months later, it was unrepairable. This is unacceptable >> for an 8 yr old car built by a major manufacturer. Problems like this will >> continue to happen with EVs. That’s what happens when cars are >> disposable. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> On Jul 19, 2022, at 8:26 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this >> when making a $10,000+ purchase? I would. -D > On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > >> https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ > > Sent from my iPhone > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
LMAO! Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 19, 2022, at 9:05 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes > wrote: > > https://vimeo.com/481367023 > >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 8:00 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >> >> Agreed. But the availability of such a major and critical component had to >> be known at the time. The supply chain for batteries for this model didn’t >> suddenly stop one day, it had to be known that they either weren’t >> available or the stock was nearly exhausted. It was just a matter of doing >> some research. If I was considering an EV for purchase, I would certainly >> be checking out the availability and/or repairability of the battery. >> >> I’ve seen a few DIY articles and videos about repairing battery packs on >> Prius’, for example, so I know there’s a possibility for repair or >> refurbishment on them. For a car that’s nearly 10 years old like this Ford >> I’m sure there’s plenty of information out there on the batteries - this >> certainly isn’t the first one to fail and not be replaced. >> >> I had a bean counter friend who bought one of the early Prius’. They drove >> it until the battery pack was ready to puke, then were unhappy that the >> trade in value was in the basement as a result. It thoroughly blew his >> numbers out that he expected. They bought an E-Class vergasser after that >> and swore they would never own an EV again. >> >> -D >> >>> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:50 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>> >>> There was nothing wrong with the car when they bought it and when the >> problem surfaced 6 months later, it was unrepairable. This is unacceptable >> for an 8 yr old car built by a major manufacturer. Problems like this will >> continue to happen with EVs. That’s what happens when cars are >> disposable. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> On Jul 19, 2022, at 8:26 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this >> when making a $10,000+ purchase? I would. -D > On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > >> https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ > > Sent from my iPhone > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
https://vimeo.com/481367023 On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 8:00 AM dan penoff.com via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Agreed. But the availability of such a major and critical component had to > be known at the time. The supply chain for batteries for this model didn’t > suddenly stop one day, it had to be known that they either weren’t > available or the stock was nearly exhausted. It was just a matter of doing > some research. If I was considering an EV for purchase, I would certainly > be checking out the availability and/or repairability of the battery. > > I’ve seen a few DIY articles and videos about repairing battery packs on > Prius’, for example, so I know there’s a possibility for repair or > refurbishment on them. For a car that’s nearly 10 years old like this Ford > I’m sure there’s plenty of information out there on the batteries - this > certainly isn’t the first one to fail and not be replaced. > > I had a bean counter friend who bought one of the early Prius’. They drove > it until the battery pack was ready to puke, then were unhappy that the > trade in value was in the basement as a result. It thoroughly blew his > numbers out that he expected. They bought an E-Class vergasser after that > and swore they would never own an EV again. > > -D > > > On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:50 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > There was nothing wrong with the car when they bought it and when the > problem surfaced 6 months later, it was unrepairable. This is unacceptable > for an 8 yr old car built by a major manufacturer. Problems like this will > continue to happen with EVs. That’s what happens when cars are > disposable. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Jul 19, 2022, at 8:26 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> > >> It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this > when making a $10,000+ purchase? > >> > >> I would. > >> > >> -D > >> > >>> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> > https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> ___ > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com > >>> > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >>> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >>> > >> > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Agreed. But the availability of such a major and critical component had to be known at the time. The supply chain for batteries for this model didn’t suddenly stop one day, it had to be known that they either weren’t available or the stock was nearly exhausted. It was just a matter of doing some research. If I was considering an EV for purchase, I would certainly be checking out the availability and/or repairability of the battery. I’ve seen a few DIY articles and videos about repairing battery packs on Prius’, for example, so I know there’s a possibility for repair or refurbishment on them. For a car that’s nearly 10 years old like this Ford I’m sure there’s plenty of information out there on the batteries - this certainly isn’t the first one to fail and not be replaced. I had a bean counter friend who bought one of the early Prius’. They drove it until the battery pack was ready to puke, then were unhappy that the trade in value was in the basement as a result. It thoroughly blew his numbers out that he expected. They bought an E-Class vergasser after that and swore they would never own an EV again. -D > On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:50 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes > wrote: > > There was nothing wrong with the car when they bought it and when the problem > surfaced 6 months later, it was unrepairable. This is unacceptable for an 8 > yr old car built by a major manufacturer. Problems like this will continue to > happen with EVs. That’s what happens when cars are disposable. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 19, 2022, at 8:26 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this when >> making a $10,000+ purchase? >> >> I would. >> >> -D >> >>> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> >>> https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Feasibility is not the only issue. It’s that Electric cars are disposable. They are built with a battery that loses capacity from day one, a cheap electric motor and a computer system which again becomes obsolete within a few years. Pure junk. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 19, 2022, at 8:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes > wrote: > > Yes, and I have come to the conclusion electric cars are many years away > from being feasible, if ever. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 19, 2022, at 7:26 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this when >> making a $10,000+ purchase? >> >> I would. >> >> -D >> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote: >>> >>> https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
There was nothing wrong with the car when they bought it and when the problem surfaced 6 months later, it was unrepairable. This is unacceptable for an 8 yr old car built by a major manufacturer. Problems like this will continue to happen with EVs. That’s what happens when cars are disposable. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 19, 2022, at 8:26 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes > wrote: > > It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this when > making a $10,000+ purchase? > > I would. > > -D > >> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Yes, and I have come to the conclusion electric cars are many years away from being feasible, if ever. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 19, 2022, at 7:26 AM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes > wrote: > > It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this when > making a $10,000+ purchase? > > I would. > > -D > >> On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
It’s called “due diligence”. Wouldn’t you research something like this when making a $10,000+ purchase? I would. -D > On Jul 19, 2022, at 5:21 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes > wrote: > > https://www.westernjournal.com/girls-electric-car-needs-new-battery-expensive-vehicle-gets-even-worse-news/ > > Sent from my iPhone > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Still a rich mans toy, at current prices it is hardly affordable even if you could justify a use for one. Certainly not priced for the masses, so very little chance of ever becoming the Model T of transport... Grant On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com writes: I wish Steve [Jobs] had worked on an electric or hybrid car. He knew how to sell things... He was pretty excited about the Segway when it came out. Still only used by geeks and obese mall cops. Allan -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com writes: I wish Steve [Jobs] had worked on an electric or hybrid car. He knew how to sell things... He was pretty excited about the Segway when it came out. Still only used by geeks and obese mall cops. Allan -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com writes: I wish Steve [Jobs] had worked on an electric or hybrid car. He knew how to sell things... He was pretty excited about the Segway when it came out. Still only used by geeks and obese mall cops. Allan -- Allan Streib I'd say segway is used only by the chemically castrated and/or obese. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
I was thinking about that too. I remember when it was going to be The next big thing. Its been my experience that if its billed as the next big thing it usually isn't... --- On Mon, 10/15/12, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu Subject: Re: [MBZ] Electric cars To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com, Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Monday, October 15, 2012, 8:06 PM Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com writes: I wish Steve [Jobs] had worked on an electric or hybrid car. He knew how to sell things... He was pretty excited about the Segway when it came out. Still only used by geeks and obese mall cops. Allan -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
I'm just catching up after vacation... I agree with you entirely, transition is never easy. You can look back and see plenty of times people said stupid stuff. Such as: Everything that can be invented has been invented. - Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899 Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.- Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895 I think there is a world market for maybe five computers. - IBM Chairman Thomas Watson, 1943 There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home. - Ken Olson (President of Digital Equipment Corporation) at the Convention of the World Future Society in Boston in 1977 No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer. 640K ought to be enough for anybody. - Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft, in 1981 Henry Ford supposedly said “If I’d asked my customers what they wanted, they would have asked for a faster horse!” he was a visionary, as was Steve Jobs. I wish Steve had worked on an electric or hybrid car. He knew how to sell things... Anyway I agree there are problems with the electric car but to say nobody wants one or that they will never sell or that they are stupid is short sighted. There will come an end to oil, maybe not in my lifetime but I'm convinced that theres a finite amount of the stuff and the rising price seems to fit with that. We could wait until that happens and then start looking for alternatives or we could start working on them now. Plenty of people say When prices rise alternatives will be found but what they neglect to take into account is that you don't just pull new technology out and use it, it takes years of development and trials, the easiest way to trial something is to sell some and get people trying out the technology. People will do the dammedest things that you can't even imagine when designing something so that real world testing is important. What we're seeing now is the very early stages of the next thing. What will the next thing really be? Nobody really knows yet and anybody that says they know is talking out their ass... -Curt Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 21:26:37 -0700 From: John Freer mbfo...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] Electric cars Message-ID: 679b8f9b-a4ec-43f5-af0a-1ebc18b96...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii OMG Myrtle, there's one of those horseless carriagesit's the end of the world! I am remained of that after read some recent posts. After one month and 400 miles I have used ZERO gas and electric bill was less than 15 bucks in my 2013 Volt. I spent days doing research and analyzing my personal car needs. 99 percent of my daily driving is 30 miles or less round trip to the Dr., medical center, Trader Joes, Costco and casino. Yes, I am retired! My Suzuki Grand Vitara was on its last legs and I had a 300.00/month budget. Wouldn't buy a Volt but the lease program is great. After a trip, just plug it in my carport and 10 hours later, I have a full tank of fuel at a cost of about 1.25 and ready for the next trip. Would I take the Volt on a long road trip? No, because that's what the 07 S550 is for. But, unlike the Nissan Leaf and Focus EV, I could if I wanted to in the Volt. Why not the Prius plugin? Only has a pure battery range of 12 miles vs. 32 miles with the Volt. Actually got 42 miles today with the ac off. So, the Volt scenario fits only a few consumers like myself but don't call me dumb or not understanding what I was getting into.I did my homework Dad! John Sent from my iPad ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Excellent - glad to hear from real world experience. I figure you got the equivilent of 90+ MPG based on $15for 400 miles, if gas was $3.50/gal. Sounds like the right choice for your usage. Thanks for posting this. On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 11:26 PM, John Freer mbfo...@gmail.com wrote: OMG Myrtle, there's one of those horseless carriagesit's the end of the world! I am remained of that after read some recent posts. After one month and 400 miles I have used ZERO gas and electric bill was less than 15 bucks in my 2013 Volt. I spent days doing research and analyzing my personal car needs. 99 percent of my daily driving is 30 miles or less round trip to the Dr., medical center, Trader Joes, Costco and casino. Yes, I am retired! My Suzuki Grand Vitara was on its last legs and I had a 300.00/month budget. Wouldn't buy a Volt but the lease program is great. After a trip, just plug it in my carport and 10 hours later, I have a full tank of fuel at a cost of about 1.25 and ready for the next trip. Would I take the Volt on a long road trip? No, because that's what the 07 S550 is for. But, unlike the Nissan Leaf and Focus EV, I could if I wanted to in the Volt. Why not the Prius plugin? Only has a pure battery range of 12 miles vs. 32 miles with the Volt. Actually got 42 miles today with the ac off. So, the Volt scenario fits only a few consumers like myself but don't call me dumb or not understanding what I was getting into.I did my homework Dad! John Sent from my iPad ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Hi Don, Unfortunately, you may have heard about the refinery fire and two other refineries that are down for maintanence which means gas has gone over 5.00 when available! As they say, timing is everything. My S550 has just been towed away to repair the air suspension so I'm not tempted to go 0 to 60 in 5.4 seconds right now! We'll find out soon how good the CPO warranty works! John On Oct 9, 2012 10:44 AM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
On Oct 9, 2012 5:11 PM, Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: A dealer salesman said the hybrid electronics are from an older model Prius and leased from Toyota. Dealer salesman is a liar, Ford developed its hybrid drive independently for the Escape in 2004. It has some features that are nicer than the Prius, and some that are not. It is similar in many ways to the gen1 and gen2 Priuses, so they cross-licensed patents, and at the time Toyota somewhat disingenuously issued press releases that Ford had licensed its technology - written in a way that led to a lot of folks concluding, incorrectly, that Ford was using the Toyota technology. Having driven both a Ford and Toyota hybrid I prefer driving the Prius, but Ford impressed me with how well they thought out failsafes. For example, if the traction pack drains, you can push a button to recharge (enough for the starter anyway) from the accessory battery. And the Escape could tow, had a high wheel base, could carry a whole lot, was offered with four wheel drive, and did not look like a broken shoe. It also got half the mileage of the Prius, I hope the Focus is better in that regard. :) By the way, I never found a Ford dealer who could work on the Escape; even the certified hybrid techs couldn't diagnose problems, and there was clearly no communication of common issues between sites. Hopefully the experience now is better, or there are good Indys about. Anyway, learn from my mistake and hunt for someone before stuff goes wrong. Glad your friend is still happy with his Volt. Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Yes - I've heard. Regular unleaded is $3.55, premium is $3.80, and Diesel is $4.30 today here in the OKC area. No shortages yet, but the Diesel sure shot up in price. Even at 45 mpg that price is noticable. On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 1:39 PM, John Freer mbfo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Don, Unfortunately, you may have heard about the refinery fire and two other refineries that are down for maintanence which means gas has gone over 5.00 when available! As they say, timing is everything. My S550 has just been towed away to repair the air suspension so I'm not tempted to go 0 to 60 in 5.4 seconds right now! We'll find out soon how good the CPO warranty works! John On Oct 9, 2012 10:44 AM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
A Tesla drove past me yesterday. Somebody in the neighborhood has too much free cash clay On Aug 27, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Craig McCluskey wrote: On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:19:05 -0400 Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: How many kJ in a 100 volt, 1 farad capacitor? U = 0.5 C V^2 = 0.5 x 1 x 100^2 = 5000 J = 5 kJ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
How many kJ in a 100 volt, 1 farad capacitor? On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.netwrote: On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:26:34 -0400 Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.net writes: Jim's comment about how much momentum a moving freight train has is indicative of the size of flywheel you would need. It wouldn't fit on the train and couldn't fit through tunnels and across bridges. I'm imagining some kind of giant, box-car sized capacitors that would absorb energy during braking and release it back to the motors during acceleration. Again, probably impractical or they'd be doing it. Well, there have been recent improvements in capacitors that allow them to store more energy, but I don't remember the energy storage density. To get an idea of how much energy one would need to store, consider a locomotive accelerating a train from stop to some speed. Say, for example, we have a 4000 horsepower locomotive that runs for 10 minutes to get the train moving. That's 746 watt 60 seconds 4000 horsepower x -- x 10 minutes x horsepower minute = 1.79 x 10^9 watt-seconds = 1.79 x 10^9 Joules = 1.79 x 10^6 kiloJoules If the energy storage density is 10 kJ / cubic foot (not too far off, I think) the volume of the capacitor would be 100,000 cubic feet. If the energy storage density is 100 kJ / cubic foot, the volume of the capacitor would be only 10,000 cubic feet. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090827/e38ec9d3/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:02:25 -0500 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: How many kJ in a 100 volt, 1 farad capacitor? U = 0.5 C V^2 = 0.5 x 1 x 100^2 = 5000 J = 5 kJ Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
Cool - thanks. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.netwrote: On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:02:25 -0500 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: How many kJ in a 100 volt, 1 farad capacitor? U = 0.5 C V^2 = 0.5 x 1 x 100^2 = 5000 J = 5 kJ Craig -- OK Don Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090827/ebeb9ce5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
That would get your attention. --R OK Don wrote: Cool - thanks. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.netwrote: On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:02:25 -0500 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: How many kJ in a 100 volt, 1 farad capacitor? U = 0.5 C V^2 = 0.5 x 1 x 100^2 = 5000 J = 5 kJ Craig -- OK Don Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090827/ebeb9ce5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090827/c06eb991/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:19:05 -0400 Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: How many kJ in a 100 volt, 1 farad capacitor? U = 0.5 C V^2 = 0.5 x 1 x 100^2 = 5000 J = 5 kJ That would get your attention. In my lab in graduate school, we had a discharge chamber that had high voltage power supplies to charge up several (small) high voltage capacitors before they were dumped in series into the chamber, many times per second. The capacitors for the discharge were too small and the power supplies charged them up too fast to see if the power supplies were working properly. So, I had a 100 microfarad, 10 kilovolt capacitor (= 5 kJ) that I used as a load to test out the power supplies. It took the supplies several seconds to charge up that capacitor, which gave enough time to observe that all the lights that were supposed to be flashing in a specific order actually did so. One evening, something went wrong with one of the power supplies. I connected the supply up to the big capacitor and ran it and found that the supply was indeed malfunctioning. I then took the discharge sticks to discharge the capacitor. These were 1 diameter plexiglas rods with 1/2 copper electrodes in their ends. Between the electrodes a pack of resistors were wired to dissipate the energy in a controlled fashion. At least they were supposed to. It turns out, unbeknownst to me, that the person who had built the resistor pack had used ADJUSTABLE wirewound resistors. Those resistors have a stripe down one side where there is NO insulation on the windings (to provide a way to adjust the resistance). Also unbeknownst to me, the malfunctioning power supply had charged the big capacitor up to much more voltage than I was accustomed to using. When I went to discharge it, the extra voltage arced across the bare windings of the resistor pack and discharged the capacitor VERY rapidly. At most milliseconds kind of rapidly. With a VERY loud BANG! My ears were ringing 2 hours after the incident. In addition, the parts of the resistors and the connecting wire (12 gauge stranded) were all over the lab, more than 20 feet away from the site of the calamity. People came running in from other labs to see if I was OK. I called my advisor, told him what happened, and went home, more than a little shaken. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
Gotcha. And heat it does. Was working in the Beech Grove (IN) AMTRAK yards some years back and saw some guy cooking hot dogs over a fan during a dyno test on a GE locomotive. It was the result of a bet with the new kid (sort of like sending them out to get a bucket of prop wash.) Dan --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu Subject: Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 1:38 AM LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com writes: That is regenerative braking, and it's exactly what the resistor banks on the tops of the locomotives are for. They use regenerative power from the traction motors and dump it into the resistors as required to place a load on the traction motors when braking or slowing the train down grades. What I meant was, they don't recover the energy for later use. They blow it off as heat. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
Pity; doesn't seem to regen anything, then, does it? Well, 'cept heat. What a waste. Wilton - Original Message - From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:38 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com writes: That is regenerative braking, and it's exactly what the resistor banks on the tops of the locomotives are for. They use regenerative power from the traction motors and dump it into the resistors as required to place a load on the traction motors when braking or slowing the train down grades. What I meant was, they don't recover the energy for later use. They blow it off as heat. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars
Pity; doesn't seem to regen anything, then, does it? Well, 'cept heat. What a waste. Though the traction motors are generating, I probably wouldn't use the term 'regenerative' unless the power were being stored, or at least used for something. As implemented, it's merely electric braking. However, D-E locomotives have been around awhile, they got there first so I suppose that whatever terminology they've been using is now, by definition, the correct one. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars
Jim Cathey wrote: Pity; doesn't seem to regen anything, then, does it? Well, 'cept heat. What a waste. Though the traction motors are generating, I probably wouldn't use the term 'regenerative' unless the power were being stored, or at least used for something. What if they hooked up an extra motor-generator to a huge flywheel? How many thousand horsepower-minutes would it need to store? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars
What if they hooked up an extra motor-generator to a huge flywheel? How many thousand horsepower-minutes would it need to store? How much momentum do you suppose a loaded freight train has? They could 'third-rail' the down-grades and come up with some way to feed the grid, that might be practical. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars
Agreed on all 3 points. Wilton - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] electric cars Pity; doesn't seem to regen anything, then, does it? Well, 'cept heat. What a waste. Though the traction motors are generating, I probably wouldn't use the term 'regenerative' unless the power were being stored, or at least used for something. As implemented, it's merely electric braking. However, D-E locomotives have been around awhile, they got there first so I suppose that whatever terminology they've been using is now, by definition, the correct one. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars
Jim Cathey wrote: What if they hooked up an extra motor-generator to a huge flywheel? How many thousand horsepower-minutes would it need to store? How much momentum do you suppose a loaded freight train has? They could 'third-rail' the down-grades and come up with some way to feed the grid, that might be practical. Frequency of the AC would be the bugger there, I'd think. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com writes: That is regenerative braking, and it's exactly what the resistor banks on the tops of the locomotives are for. They use regenerative power from the traction motors and dump it into the resistors as required to place a load on the traction motors when braking or slowing the train down grades. Allan wrote: What I meant was, they don't recover the energy for later use. They blow it off as heat. WILTON wrote: Pity; doesn't seem to regen anything, then, does it? Well, 'cept heat. What a waste. Yeah. But think of the quantity of electricity generated. Not very practical to store that in batteries. Maybe the spare electricity could generate hydrogen - except the main diesel engine can't run on hydrogen. A flywheel? Could use an electric motor and regenerative braking using the flywheel to store the energy. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:05:03 -0500 Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: WILTON wrote: Pity; doesn't seem to regen anything, then, does it? Well, 'cept heat. What a waste. Yeah. But think of the quantity of electricity generated. Not very practical to store that in batteries. Maybe the spare electricity could generate hydrogen - except the main diesel engine can't run on hydrogen. A flywheel? Could use an electric motor and regenerative braking using the flywheel to store the energy. Jim's comment about how much momentum a moving freight train has is indicative of the size of flywheel you would need. It wouldn't fit on the train and couldn't fit through tunnels and across bridges. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.net writes: Jim's comment about how much momentum a moving freight train has is indicative of the size of flywheel you would need. It wouldn't fit on the train and couldn't fit through tunnels and across bridges. I'm imagining some kind of giant, box-car sized capacitors that would absorb energy during braking and release it back to the motors during acceleration. Again, probably impractical or they'd be doing it. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:26:34 -0400 Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.net writes: Jim's comment about how much momentum a moving freight train has is indicative of the size of flywheel you would need. It wouldn't fit on the train and couldn't fit through tunnels and across bridges. I'm imagining some kind of giant, box-car sized capacitors that would absorb energy during braking and release it back to the motors during acceleration. Again, probably impractical or they'd be doing it. Well, there have been recent improvements in capacitors that allow them to store more energy, but I don't remember the energy storage density. To get an idea of how much energy one would need to store, consider a locomotive accelerating a train from stop to some speed. Say, for example, we have a 4000 horsepower locomotive that runs for 10 minutes to get the train moving. That's 746 watt 60 seconds 4000 horsepower x -- x 10 minutes x horsepower minute = 1.79 x 10^9 watt-seconds = 1.79 x 10^9 Joules = 1.79 x 10^6 kiloJoules If the energy storage density is 10 kJ / cubic foot (not too far off, I think) the volume of the capacitor would be 100,000 cubic feet. If the energy storage density is 100 kJ / cubic foot, the volume of the capacitor would be only 10,000 cubic feet. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
Electric drivetrains are more efficient. That's why hybrids get better mileage even though they have a quarter-ton-plus more equipment. Also why diesel trains run generators and use electric motors. I doubt that. I believe that Diesel/Electric trains allow a much smoother transition of power. I can think of no other drive train that would allow what they do. Pete -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090825/304baa5b/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
Yes, it's over 10 days old, I'm slow. :) On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Fmiserfmi...@gmail.com wrote: R A Bennell wrote: No one seems to make any comments on these issues. It is all about the environment and the utopian dream that we can carry on without polluting anything. Nothing practical ever mentioned. Unless the electric generating is pollution-free, the pollution is just moved. Now, in the LA CA bowl, there is some merit to Electric drivetrains are more efficient. That's why hybrids get better mileage even though they have a quarter-ton-plus more equipment. Also why diesel trains run generators and use electric motors. that. Otherwise, the typical modern automobile engine is way cleaner than the coal fired electric plant. I don't believe that at all. Even the nuclear plants have diesel backups, if it was really cleaner (= better efficiency) they'd be using them all the time. Coal scrubbers are pretty sophisticated, and if you are producing a lot of power in a single area you can afford much better filtration equipment than you can if you have a lot of small spots to clean. I think catalytic converters are a good idea, but I don't think it makes the exhaust anywhere close to what a modern coal plant outputs, much less nuclear. Diesel by that logic is out of the picture, I won't go there... Random geeks, via Google, seem to agree with my WAG, though not quite so overwhelmingly as I'd expected: http://forums.treehugger.com/viewtopic.php?t=1034 Only comparing CO2, a quick scan found a mention of other pollutants but it appears they are practically nothing after power generating. Now if we could get some fusion plants online Agree, the more the merrier. Here in NC we still have a glut of capacity, if you need it bring cash. :) -Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
pm7...@comcast.net writes: I doubt that. I believe that Diesel/Electric trains allow a much smoother transition of power. I can think of no other drive train that would allow what they do. I don't know a whole lot about locomotives but a couple of advantages spring to mind, one is that the diesels can run at optimum RPM to drive the generators, also the electric traction motors eliminate the need for a transmission. They will apply torque to the wheels at 0 RPM. They can also serve as brakes, though I think locomotives just have a bunch of huge resistors they do not have any form of regenerative braking. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars
They can also serve as brakes, though I think locomotives just have a bunch of huge resistors they do not have any form of regenerative braking. They would, but nobody has yet figured out how to turn electricity back into diesel fuel! (D-E locomotives were never about energy efficiency or 'green', but about raw functionality. You can play some interesting tricks with the kind of electric traction motors they use, but I think there is a _lot_ of waste heat at times. No clutches or gearboxes required, though, just as with steam.) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
That is regenerative braking, and it's exactly what the resistor banks on the tops of the locomotives are for. They use regenerative power from the traction motors and dump it into the resistors as required to place a load on the traction motors when braking or slowing the train down grades. If you look closely at a diesel electric locomotive next time it passes you at a grade crossing, you'll see the fan shrouds on the roof of the locomotive. These are for both the engine cooling system radiators which are mounted horizontally as well as the resistor banks that are usually below the radiators. Dan --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: I don't know a whole lot about locomotives but a couple of advantages spring to mind, one is that the diesels can run at optimum RPM to drive the generators, also the electric traction motors eliminate the need for a transmission. They will apply torque to the wheels at 0 RPM. They can also serve as brakes, though I think locomotives just have a bunch of huge resistors they do not have any form of regenerative braking. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com writes: That is regenerative braking, and it's exactly what the resistor banks on the tops of the locomotives are for. They use regenerative power from the traction motors and dump it into the resistors as required to place a load on the traction motors when braking or slowing the train down grades. What I meant was, they don't recover the energy for later use. They blow it off as heat. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] electric cars - was Cash for clunkers hits home
R A Bennell wrote: No one seems to make any comments on these issues. It is all about the environment and the utopian dream that we can carry on without polluting anything. Nothing practical ever mentioned. Unless the electric generating is pollution-free, the pollution is just moved. Now, in the LA CA bowl, there is some merit to that. Otherwise, the typical modern automobile engine is way cleaner than the coal fired electric plant. Now if we could get some fusion plants online Also have to wonder what happens when a couple of hundred thousand people plug their car in at night. Does the power go off all over or just in some areas? Do you have to shut off your house AC so you can charge up the family buggy? Actually, if there are only plugged in a night, it could be _helpful_. One of the challenges of electric generating is coping with peak load. It takes days for a coal-fired plant to turn on. That is of no use when we need more generating capacity for the 6PM peak. Nuclear fission is even slower, I think.. (Don't know about fusion - still very new). Natural gas can come on line in a hour, as I recall. So coal and fission are used for baseline. Wind is - well, variable. But I'd guess that if you really had more capacity than load those windmill generators can turn on and off fairly quickly. Anyway, if we can shift _any_ energy use to the deep off-peak time, then more of the higher-efficiency, slow-start generators can supply the power. Out here in the country, the electric company gives away dusk-to-dawn lights (but the user pays for the electricity) to help create some load during the night. I'm guessing it's less important now than when the program started in the days before air-conditioning. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars [was: Re: Frankenheap failures, and rites of passage]
without a horrible performance impact outside Connecticut. What's Connecticut have to do with it? CT has some rule that you can't exceed GVWR (with driver), so even if the frame is happy and you replace the suspension you're unable to register the car. Guess you could still get more batteries in place of a diesel vs. a gas engine, but people talk about being two or three times GVWR for a 30 mile range, even with the engine out. There are probably other states with similar rules though I don't think NC is one of them. :) -Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars [was: Re: Frankenheap failures, and rites of passage]
Only install enough batteries to get to the registration site and back (or trailer it within a block), get it registered, then take it home and finish installing batteries. CT has some rule that you can't exceed GVWR (with driver), so even if the frame is happy and you replace the suspension you're unable to register the car. Guess you could still get more batteries in place of a diesel vs. a gas engine, but people talk about being two or three times GVWR for a 30 mile range, even with the engine out. There are probably other states with similar rules though I don't think NC is one of them. :) -Tim -- OK Don W124 Diesels Ubuntu 8.10 KD5NRO -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090215/ff9b2571/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Another thing to help your presidential bid... The eco crowd will love it as will the hardcore we build stuff right wing types. -Curt Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:52:09 -0400 From: Wilton Strickland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Electric cars To: mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 'Beginning to think I'd like to build one. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric cars
Almost forgot: Wilton in '12! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
Hendrik Fay wrote: Why need a tranny? I just bought a new drill that can be adjusted to turn from two rpm up to 600 or whatever rpm, no gearbox in that sucker far as I know. I saw a RoadTrack writeup on an electric Honda CRX years ago. They used the Honda transaxle, but I believe they just stuck it in 2nd gear and left it there. The engine had enough rpms to go 80mph or so. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
Lots of EV folk keep the trans and take out the clutch. For an around town car I suspect no trans would be adequate but for highway (or even quick secondary roads) I suspect you'd need to shift. Again I point to the forkenswift www.forkenswift.com the guy has some videos that are pretty good and has a huge writeup on ecomodder. -Curt Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:36:27 -0400 From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone? To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What I've wondered, is would I keep the 4-speed? With an electric motor you should not really need a transmission or clutch, right? Except maybe to keep the current draw under control at take-off? Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
that's the guy who shifts without a clutch - kills pwer to the motor, let's the syncro rings match the speeds, and shifts. You can see it all happen in the video. On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 7:18 AM, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lots of EV folk keep the trans and take out the clutch. For an around town car I suspect no trans would be adequate but for highway (or even quick secondary roads) I suspect you'd need to shift. Again I point to the forkenswift www.forkenswift.com the guy has some videos that are pretty good and has a huge writeup on ecomodder. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
Allan, Unlike a gas engine, 43 HP from an electric motor is 100 percent useable HP. You can easily get more useable HP from a 43 electric motor than from a gas engine rated at twice the peak HP. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 7/17/08 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone? Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 40 kW = 43 HP = the perfect size for a 60s VW bus, plus plenty of room for lead acid batteries an internally mounted diesel powered generator I have a Vanagon and thought it might be a good platform for a hybrid conversion. I'd want at least twice that HP though. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1557 - Release Date: 7/17/2008 5:36 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
I think the key thing with electric motors is that you get all the torque at 0 rpm, so when you take off you have the max accel available, unlike IC engines. --R Tom Hargrave wrote: Allan, Unlike a gas engine, 43 HP from an electric motor is 100 percent useable HP. You can easily get more useable HP from a 43 electric motor than from a gas engine rated at twice the peak HP. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 7/17/08 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone? Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 40 kW = 43 HP = the perfect size for a 60s VW bus, plus plenty of room for lead acid batteries an internally mounted diesel powered generator I have a Vanagon and thought it might be a good platform for a hybrid conversion. I'd want at least twice that HP though. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
What I've wondered, is would I keep the 4-speed? With an electric motor you should not really need a transmission or clutch, right? Except maybe to keep the current draw under control at take-off? Allan Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think the key thing with electric motors is that you get all the torque at 0 rpm, so when you take off you have the max accel available, unlike IC engines. --R Tom Hargrave wrote: Allan, Unlike a gas engine, 43 HP from an electric motor is 100 percent useable HP. You can easily get more useable HP from a 43 electric motor than from a gas engine rated at twice the peak HP. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 7/17/08 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone? Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 40 kW = 43 HP = the perfect size for a 60s VW bus, plus plenty of room for lead acid batteries an internally mounted diesel powered generator I have a Vanagon and thought it might be a good platform for a hybrid conversion. I'd want at least twice that HP though. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
Article in todays rag goes on about Missinbitshity building a prototype eleccy car with hub motors front and one motor in the rear, top speed 180 klicks and range of 200ks, seating capacity of two 5 year olds and crashworthiness of a wet cardboard box. Strong winds will make it fly and passing trucks will make it move sideways three lanes. Owners will be issued with tie down ropes to ensure car is not carried off by the wind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIEV http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=44969 http://www.autochic.com.au/garage/environment/The-New-Mitsubishi-i-MiEV/ hmmnh guess it is not meant to be a mans man type of car, perhaps when they bring out the ute version Hendrik Tom Hargrave wrote: Allan, Unlike a gas engine, 43 HP from an electric motor is 100 percent useable HP. You can easily get more useable HP from a 43 electric motor than from a gas engine rated at twice the peak HP. Thanks, Tom ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
I was wondering the same thing - those cars with motors in the hubs don't have a transmission, but most of the conversions I've read about connect to the tranny - some with a clutch, others without, but all shifting. Guess it depends on the moter, controller circuitry, power source delivery rate, etc. On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I've wondered, is would I keep the 4-speed? With an electric motor you should not really need a transmission or clutch, right? Except maybe to keep the current draw under control at take-off? Allan -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
Yeah, I read about a few and they just bolt the motor to the bell housing/tranny with a shaft adapter, use the tranny. With all the torque available at 0 rpm, I wonder if you could just leave it in 3 or 4 and do it that way. I suppose you would just figure it out. --R OK Don wrote: I was wondering the same thing - those cars with motors in the hubs don't have a transmission, but most of the conversions I've read about connect to the tranny - some with a clutch, others without, but all shifting. Guess it depends on the moter, controller circuitry, power source delivery rate, etc. On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I've wondered, is would I keep the 4-speed? With an electric motor you should not really need a transmission or clutch, right? Except maybe to keep the current draw under control at take-off? Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
HP is still torque X RPM and you still need the transmission to make the most use of the HP. You don't need a clutch. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 7/18/08 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone? What I've wondered, is would I keep the 4-speed? With an electric motor you should not really need a transmission or clutch, right? Except maybe to keep the current draw under control at take-off? Allan Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think the key thing with electric motors is that you get all the torque at 0 rpm, so when you take off you have the max accel available, unlike IC engines. --R Tom Hargrave wrote: Allan, Unlike a gas engine, 43 HP from an electric motor is 100 percent useable HP. You can easily get more useable HP from a 43 electric motor than from a gas engine rated at twice the peak HP. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 7/17/08 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone? Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 40 kW = 43 HP = the perfect size for a 60s VW bus, plus plenty of room for lead acid batteries an internally mounted diesel powered generator I have a Vanagon and thought it might be a good platform for a hybrid conversion. I'd want at least twice that HP though. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.5.1/1560 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:47 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: HP is still torque X RPM and you still need the transmission to make the most use of the HP. You don't need a clutch. You would need a clutch to change gears while driving, right? I can understand not needing one to start off. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
Why need a tranny? I just bought a new drill that can be adjusted to turn from two rpm up to 600 or whatever rpm, no gearbox in that sucker far as I know. I am guessing electric cars work on much the same principle, put your foot down a bit and the wheels start to turn, apply more current and the wheels go faster. A reduction box might be needed but not a transmission with proper gears. Hendrik Allan Streib wrote: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: HP is still torque X RPM and you still need the transmission to make the most use of the HP. You don't need a clutch. You would need a clutch to change gears while driving, right? I can understand not needing one to start off. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
A lot of people doing conversions use fork lift motors and deep-cycle marine batteries (relatively cheap and easily acquired) and you do need a controller of some sort. Here is one web site (and there are loads of them, just do a google search on electric car conversion or something similar). http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/kits.shtml Old Hondas etc seem to be good platforms for this kind of hacking. I have my granddaddies 72 Datsun 510 wagon, I keep thinking it might be fun to go electric with it. --R OK Don wrote: I saw an article in a local rag recently about someone converting a mid sized japanese car to electric for around town trips. He claims to get 35 miles per charge with golf cart batteries. He used a aircraft generator for the engine. That's all the info provided, but it did re-stir an interest in trying this myself. I was thinking of something smaller and lighter, but still just for very local driving. I'm thinking a Spriget or Spitfire. Anyone know of good info/resources for the controller circuitry? On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:40 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Local college is competing in the solar powered car race from Plano Texas to Calgary Alberta. They are to be here on Saturday afternoon so I plan to go and have a closer look. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
Rich Thomas wrote: A lot of people doing conversions use fork lift motors and deep-cycle marine batteries (relatively cheap and easily acquired) and you do need a controller of some sort. Back in the 1970's a fellow made a series hybrid from an Opel GT, with a 5hp Briggs engine, and a jet engine's starter motor. He also did a VW and a Subaru: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1979-07-01/An-Amazing-75-MPG-Hybrid-Electic-Car.aspx http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1980-05-01/Hybrid-II.aspx http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1980-09-01/Mothers-Own-Hybrid-Car.aspx ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
During the early 80's, I worked for a major Nuclear Fuel Fabricator, since euthanized by a euro-trash takeover. One of our senior managers built a Voltswagon. It was a Beatle, stuffed with deep cycle batteries with I believe a 48v motor. It had about a 10 mile range if driven conservatively. Very difficult to drive at night, the switching relays were mounted low in the rear. They made a most impressive light show almost constantly. He couldn't get how without drawing the attention of police, sometimes fire departments. Pete ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very difficult to drive at night, the switching relays were mounted low in the rear. They made a most impressive light show almost constantly. Fortunately, we can now do banks of FETs which can handle hundreds of amps per transistor, with resistance measured in milliohms. For instance, here's an electric motor throttle rated to handle 1200A continuous at 12v, with .0005 ohm resistance across the transistors, and the whole controller weighs 1.4oz, but it does not include a reverse function, but I believe it had regenerative braking, and it costs $80. Just imagine what you could do if you were willing to pay $300-500 for a large speed control to operate an automobile. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?I=LXAXU1P=7 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
I've thought about doing this with a 190E to create a 190EV... The one you want to check out is the ForkenSwift http://forkenswift.com/ the ultimate low budget EV. Even he didn't build his own controller though. -Curt Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:56:23 -0500 From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone? To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I saw an article in a local rag recently about someone converting a mid sized japanese car to electric for around town trips. He claims to get 35 miles per charge with golf cart batteries. He used a aircraft generator for the engine. That's all the info provided, but it did re-stir an interest in trying this myself. I was thinking of something smaller and lighter, but still just for very local driving. I'm thinking a Spriget or Spitfire. Anyone know of good info/resources for the controller circuitry? On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:40 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Local college is competing in the solar powered car race from Plano Texas to Calgary Alberta. They are to be here on Saturday afternoon so I plan to go and have a closer look. Randy -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
Lots of info and interest out there on electric propulsion systems for boats too. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:12 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very difficult to drive at night, the switching relays were mounted low in the rear. They made a most impressive light show almost constantly. Fortunately, we can now do banks of FETs which can handle hundreds of amps per transistor, with resistance measured in milliohms. For instance, here's an electric motor throttle rated to handle 1200A continuous at 12v, with .0005 ohm resistance across the transistors, and the whole controller weighs 1.4oz, but it does not include a reverse function, but I believe it had regenerative braking, and it costs $80. Just imagine what you could do if you were willing to pay $300-500 for a large speed control to operate an automobile. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?I=LXAXU1P=7 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
Mitch Haley wrote: Fortunately, we can now do banks of FETs which can handle hundreds of amps per transistor, with resistance measured in milliohms. Yep! Good times :) For instance, here's an electric motor throttle rated to handle 1200A continuous at 12v, with .0005 ohm resistance across the transistors, and the whole controller weighs 1.4oz, but it does not include a reverse function, but I believe it had regenerative braking, and it costs $80. Just imagine what you could do if you were willing to pay $300-500 for a large speed control to operate an automobile. I call BS. 1200A requires HUGE HUGE wires. That controller is only really capable of 20-30 amps more likely. That peak current is probably for uS and is probably severely overstated as well. A 40kW motor only makes 53 horsepower... so that is probably a good starting size. 40kW is a LOT of juice. The higher voltage you can get the better. The ones in hybrids run at 300+ volts. Before we got our battery pack for ChallengeX we had a trailer full of lead acid batteries to emulate the 320V batter pack on the way. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
40 kW = 43 HP = the perfect size for a 60s VW bus, plus plenty of room for lead acid batteries an internally mounted diesel powered generator Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Robbins Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:35 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone? Mitch Haley wrote: Fortunately, we can now do banks of FETs which can handle hundreds of amps per transistor, with resistance measured in milliohms. Yep! Good times :) For instance, here's an electric motor throttle rated to handle 1200A continuous at 12v, with .0005 ohm resistance across the transistors, and the whole controller weighs 1.4oz, but it does not include a reverse function, but I believe it had regenerative braking, and it costs $80. Just imagine what you could do if you were willing to pay $300-500 for a large speed control to operate an automobile. I call BS. 1200A requires HUGE HUGE wires. That controller is only really capable of 20-30 amps more likely. That peak current is probably for uS and is probably severely overstated as well. A 40kW motor only makes 53 horsepower... so that is probably a good starting size. 40kW is a LOT of juice. The higher voltage you can get the better. The ones in hybrids run at 300+ volts. Before we got our battery pack for ChallengeX we had a trailer full of lead acid batteries to emulate the 320V batter pack on the way. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1557 - Release Date: 7/17/2008 5:36 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1557 - Release Date: 7/17/2008 5:36 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:14 AM, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Old Hondas etc seem to be good platforms for this kind of hacking. I have my granddaddies 72 Datsun 510 wagon, I keep thinking it might be fun to go electric with it. Ack! Haven't we been through this before? Please leave that Datsun original, Rich. There are so few of them left unmolested---you are sitting on a potential museum piece. I can't remember the last time I saw a 510 that wasn't slammed, on fat tires, with a 300ZX engine stuffed under the hood, or all three. Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo et al. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
You see, I said thinking which ain't the same as doing, but I am leaning to just keeping it as it is (well, get it running) and then having it original as gramps drove it. It is actually in quite good condition except for the interior which was a mouse house (I think I will call it the Hanta Wagon) but that is easily enough dealt with I suppose. But for now it sits in the storage unit, waiting for that elusive roundtoit. --R Alex Chamberlain wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:14 AM, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Old Hondas etc seem to be good platforms for this kind of hacking. I have my granddaddies 72 Datsun 510 wagon, I keep thinking it might be fun to go electric with it. Ack! Haven't we been through this before? Please leave that Datsun original, Rich. There are so few of them left unmolested---you are sitting on a potential museum piece. I can't remember the last time I saw a 510 that wasn't slammed, on fat tires, with a 300ZX engine stuffed under the hood, or all three. Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo et al. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1558 - Release Date: 7/17/2008 9:56 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 40 kW = 43 HP = the perfect size for a 60s VW bus, plus plenty of room for lead acid batteries an internally mounted diesel powered generator I have a Vanagon and thought it might be a good platform for a hybrid conversion. I'd want at least twice that HP though. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Electric Cars Anyone?
I saw an article in a local rag recently about someone converting a mid sized japanese car to electric for around town trips. He claims to get 35 miles per charge with golf cart batteries. He used a aircraft generator for the engine. That's all the info provided, but it did re-stir an interest in trying this myself. I was thinking of something smaller and lighter, but still just for very local driving. I'm thinking a Spriget or Spitfire. Anyone know of good info/resources for the controller circuitry? On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:40 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Local college is competing in the solar powered car race from Plano Texas to Calgary Alberta. They are to be here on Saturday afternoon so I plan to go and have a closer look. Randy -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
