Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Yeah, that was it. Art Bell. I remember listening to him when I was on the road.

-D

> On May 4, 2020, at 3:30 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> But then you had time to listed to that late night radio guy that was the 
> UFO/conspiracy theorist. Glen somebody? (Not Beck)
> 
> -D
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I worked a rotating day/nights shift from about ‘77 until 2009. Every night 
>> shift job I’ve ever had, from making donuts to working at the nuke plant, 
>> from mid 70’s to late 90’s, I listened to the good doctor on the radio. 
>> Then, the one Phoenix station that carried him dropped him in ‘97 or ‘98. It 
>> was really strange to have what was such a ital part of working nights 
>> suddenly gone.
>> 
>> Bob R
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 9:23 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I was wondering the same thing. Used to be my Sunday night entertainment 
>>> as a teenager.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
 On May 4, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:
 
> I was listening to Dr. Demento today
 
 He's still on the air??? I remember him from the early 1980s... maybe
 late '70s. Same guy?  Or someone else continuing the franchise?
 
 Allan
 
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>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Art Bell?

Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:

> But then you had time to listed to that late night radio guy that was the 
> UFO/conspiracy theorist. Glen somebody? (Not Beck)
>
> -D
>
>> On May 4, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I worked a rotating day/nights shift from about ‘77 until 2009. Every night 
>> shift job I’ve ever had, from making donuts to working at the nuke plant, 
>> from mid 70’s to late 90’s, I listened to the good doctor on the radio. 
>> Then, the one Phoenix station that carried him dropped him in ‘97 or ‘98. It 
>> was really strange to have what was such a ital part of working nights 
>> suddenly gone.
>> 
>> Bob R
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 9:23 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I was wondering the same thing. Used to be my Sunday night entertainment 
>>> as a teenager.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
 On May 4, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:
 
> I was listening to Dr. Demento today
 
 He's still on the air??? I remember him from the early 1980s... maybe
 late '70s. Same guy?  Or someone else continuing the franchise?
 
 Allan
 
 ___

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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

But then you had time to listed to that late night radio guy that was the 
UFO/conspiracy theorist. Glen somebody? (Not Beck)

-D

> On May 4, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I worked a rotating day/nights shift from about ‘77 until 2009. Every night 
> shift job I’ve ever had, from making donuts to working at the nuke plant, 
> from mid 70’s to late 90’s, I listened to the good doctor on the radio. Then, 
> the one Phoenix station that carried him dropped him in ‘97 or ‘98. It was 
> really strange to have what was such a ital part of working nights suddenly 
> gone.
> 
> Bob R
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 9:23 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I was wondering the same thing. Used to be my Sunday night entertainment as 
>> a teenager.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:
>>> 
 I was listening to Dr. Demento today
>>> 
>>> He's still on the air??? I remember him from the early 1980s... maybe
>>> late '70s. Same guy?  Or someone else continuing the franchise?
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 AFAIK its the same guy but doing an internet show now.
I was actually listening to a Dr. Demento record on Amazon music...
-Curt

On Monday, May 4, 2020, 12:04:40 PM EDT, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

>  I was listening to Dr. Demento today

He's still on the air??? I remember him from the early 1980s... maybe
late '70s. Same guy?  Or someone else continuing the franchise?

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

I worked a rotating day/nights shift from about ‘77 until 2009. Every night 
shift job I’ve ever had, from making donuts to working at the nuke plant, from 
mid 70’s to late 90’s, I listened to the good doctor on the radio. Then, the 
one Phoenix station that carried him dropped him in ‘97 or ‘98. It was really 
strange to have what was such a ital part of working nights suddenly gone.

Bob R

Sent from my iPad

> On May 4, 2020, at 9:23 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I was wondering the same thing. Used to be my Sunday night entertainment as 
> a teenager.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:
>> 
>>> I was listening to Dr. Demento today
>> 
>> He's still on the air??? I remember him from the early 1980s... maybe
>> late '70s. Same guy?  Or someone else continuing the franchise?
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 

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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I was wondering the same thing. Used to be my Sunday night entertainment as a 
teenager.

-D

> On May 4, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> I was listening to Dr. Demento today
> 
> He's still on the air??? I remember him from the early 1980s... maybe
> late '70s. Same guy?  Or someone else continuing the franchise?
> 
> Allan
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Curt Raymond via Mercedes  writes:

>  I was listening to Dr. Demento today

He's still on the air??? I remember him from the early 1980s... maybe
late '70s. Same guy?  Or someone else continuing the franchise?

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I remember that from Way Back When.

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 9:58 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  I was listening to Dr. Demento today and they played this:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgASBVMyVFI
> |
> |
> |
> |  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> Tom Lehrer - National Brotherhood Week - with intro
>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Tom-Lehrer-Collection-CD-DVD/dp/B0039TD73G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8=music=1284930177=8-.
> ..
>  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
>
> On Thursday, April 30, 2020, 7:24:22 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>  Good point. This is pretty common in other parts of the world where there
> are large numbers of impoverished people. The Philippines and India are
> both examples of this. Both of them are a large part of the common labor
> pools in the Middle East. If you go to place like Saudi Arabia you’ll see
> tons of Filipinos doing all of the manual labor on construction sites.
> They’re also well entrenched in the cruise ship industry as well.
>
> Go work in a rich country, send money home, make a very good living and
> support your family in a manner they could never have if you worked there.
> Bail when necessary.
>
> -D
>
>
>
> > On Apr 30, 2020, at 4:35 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I think thats very common, especially with Asian immigrants. My mother
> worked with a Filipino lady who's husband was in a nursing home. She was
> waiting for him to die so she could go back to the Philippines. She loved
> her husband but didn't particularly love the US and wanted to go home.
> > -Curt
> >
> >On Thursday, April 30, 2020, 4:17:19 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via
> Mercedes  wrote:
> >
> > For what it is worth, I also suspect that a lot of our immigrants come
> > here because they see it as a way to make a buck, but ultimately they do
> > not want to be here and hope they make enough to retire "back home".
> >
> > RB
> >
> > On 30/04/2020 1:27 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> >> I agree with you wholeheartedly, Grant.
> >>
> >> Growing up around my paternal grandfather, who at that time had been in
> the country for nearly 50 years and a citizen for 25-30 years, I got to see
> an individual and the community around them and how they embraced the
> “American dream/way/whatever”. Grandpa was the epitome of the patriotic
> immigrant - Mother, apple pie, baseball, etc. Heck, he could have been the
> poster child. The community he lived in was nearly 100% immigrants, mostly
> from eastern Europe, speaking a common (first) language of Greek. Every one
> of them was a hard working, hard core American, despite being firmly rooted
> in their former culture. They voted, actively participated in local
> government and community, and had a deep commitment to their community and
> it’s members. I can’t ever recall them saying anything about “how much
> better it was in the old country”.
> >>
> >> Many of them, like my grandfather, were very prosperous business owners
> who built their businesses up from the ground with nothing more than sweat
> equity. I know that at the peak of his business career my Grandpa owned
> three taverns and at least one bowling alley. The whole time he had these
> businesses he was still working first shift at Granite City Steel! I have
> no idea of what his personal wealth was, but I have to believe it was
> substantial based on his business holdings. You wouldn’t know it from
> seeing his house or personal possessions. Much the same with his fellow
> business owners. A good example of this is when they decided they needed
> their own Orthodox church. They petitioned for a priest, got one within
> about a year, and in another year had built a beautiful church, paid for
> 100% by the community. I’m sure Grandpa wrote a big check for that.
> >>
> >> Anyway, my point is that while he and his community were proud of their
> ethnicity and culture and practiced it regularly, it didn’t overshadow
> their love for the country and desire to be Americans. They assimilated,
> learned the language and trafficked easily with everyone else in the area
> regardless of their country of origin or ethnicity.
> >>
> >> While I’m not totally comfortable with a “national language”
> requirement, I think the approach that a lot of countries like the Nordic
> ones have towards immigrants - if you want to come here you have a fixed
> time to learn our language. They also provide the resources to do so, which
> I also think is important.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change 

Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I was listening to Dr. Demento today and they played this: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgASBVMyVFI
| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
Tom Lehrer - National Brotherhood Week - with intro

http://www.amazon.com/Tom-Lehrer-Collection-CD-DVD/dp/B0039TD73G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8=music=1284930177=8-...
 |

 |

 |



On Thursday, April 30, 2020, 7:24:22 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Good point. This is pretty common in other parts of the world where there are 
large numbers of impoverished people. The Philippines and India are both 
examples of this. Both of them are a large part of the common labor pools in 
the Middle East. If you go to place like Saudi Arabia you’ll see tons of 
Filipinos doing all of the manual labor on construction sites. They’re also 
well entrenched in the cruise ship industry as well.

Go work in a rich country, send money home, make a very good living and support 
your family in a manner they could never have if you worked there. Bail when 
necessary.

-D



> On Apr 30, 2020, at 4:35 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think thats very common, especially with Asian immigrants. My mother worked 
> with a Filipino lady who's husband was in a nursing home. She was waiting for 
> him to die so she could go back to the Philippines. She loved her husband but 
> didn't particularly love the US and wanted to go home.
> -Curt
> 
>    On Thursday, April 30, 2020, 4:17:19 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
> wrote:  
> 
> For what it is worth, I also suspect that a lot of our immigrants come 
> here because they see it as a way to make a buck, but ultimately they do 
> not want to be here and hope they make enough to retire "back home".
> 
> RB
> 
> On 30/04/2020 1:27 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> I agree with you wholeheartedly, Grant.
>> 
>> Growing up around my paternal grandfather, who at that time had been in the 
>> country for nearly 50 years and a citizen for 25-30 years, I got to see an 
>> individual and the community around them and how they embraced the “American 
>> dream/way/whatever”. Grandpa was the epitome of the patriotic immigrant - 
>> Mother, apple pie, baseball, etc. Heck, he could have been the poster child. 
>> The community he lived in was nearly 100% immigrants, mostly from eastern 
>> Europe, speaking a common (first) language of Greek. Every one of them was a 
>> hard working, hard core American, despite being firmly rooted in their 
>> former culture. They voted, actively participated in local government and 
>> community, and had a deep commitment to their community and it’s members. I 
>> can’t ever recall them saying anything about “how much better it was in the 
>> old country”.
>> 
>> Many of them, like my grandfather, were very prosperous business owners who 
>> built their businesses up from the ground with nothing more than sweat 
>> equity. I know that at the peak of his business career my Grandpa owned 
>> three taverns and at least one bowling alley. The whole time he had these 
>> businesses he was still working first shift at Granite City Steel! I have no 
>> idea of what his personal wealth was, but I have to believe it was 
>> substantial based on his business holdings. You wouldn’t know it from seeing 
>> his house or personal possessions. Much the same with his fellow business 
>> owners. A good example of this is when they decided they needed their own 
>> Orthodox church. They petitioned for a priest, got one within about a year, 
>> and in another year had built a beautiful church, paid for 100% by the 
>> community. I’m sure Grandpa wrote a big check for that.
>> 
>> Anyway, my point is that while he and his community were proud of their 
>> ethnicity and culture and practiced it regularly, it didn’t overshadow their 
>> love for the country and desire to be Americans. They assimilated, learned 
>> the language and trafficked easily with everyone else in the area regardless 
>> of their country of origin or ethnicity.
>> 
>> While I’m not totally comfortable with a “national language” requirement, I 
>> think the approach that a lot of countries like the Nordic ones have towards 
>> immigrants - if you want to come here you have a fixed time to learn our 
>> language. They also provide the resources to do so, which I also think is 
>> important.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
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> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Clay via Mercedes]

Sounds like my Alaska experience.  Somebody is going to have to die for me to 
get out of here. Even if the population this far north is predominately pink 
skin, the race issues are more from subsistence culture instead of the western 
education and career tracks.  Since most of the “work” is on native land, the 
natives demand jobs.  Sadly, not much local bodies are educated in how to do 
the “work”, so are unemployable.  Companies beg the applicants to get a GED, 
paid for, but it is not of value to the native.They need to figure out 
which world they want to live in, then live there, instead of strung between 
the white man’s world and the natural flow of the seasons.


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Apr 30, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think thats very common, especially with Asian immigrants. My mother worked 
> with a Filipino lady who's husband was in a nursing home. She was waiting for 
> him to die so she could go back to the Philippines. She loved her husband but 
> didn't particularly love the US and wanted to go home.
> -Curt

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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Good point. This is pretty common in other parts of the world where there are 
large numbers of impoverished people. The Philippines and India are both 
examples of this. Both of them are a large part of the common labor pools in 
the Middle East. If you go to place like Saudi Arabia you’ll see tons of 
Filipinos doing all of the manual labor on construction sites. They’re also 
well entrenched in the cruise ship industry as well.

Go work in a rich country, send money home, make a very good living and support 
your family in a manner they could never have if you worked there. Bail when 
necessary.

-D



> On Apr 30, 2020, at 4:35 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think thats very common, especially with Asian immigrants. My mother worked 
> with a Filipino lady who's husband was in a nursing home. She was waiting for 
> him to die so she could go back to the Philippines. She loved her husband but 
> didn't particularly love the US and wanted to go home.
> -Curt
> 
>On Thursday, April 30, 2020, 4:17:19 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
> For what it is worth, I also suspect that a lot of our immigrants come 
> here because they see it as a way to make a buck, but ultimately they do 
> not want to be here and hope they make enough to retire "back home".
> 
> RB
> 
> On 30/04/2020 1:27 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> I agree with you wholeheartedly, Grant.
>> 
>> Growing up around my paternal grandfather, who at that time had been in the 
>> country for nearly 50 years and a citizen for 25-30 years, I got to see an 
>> individual and the community around them and how they embraced the “American 
>> dream/way/whatever”. Grandpa was the epitome of the patriotic immigrant - 
>> Mother, apple pie, baseball, etc. Heck, he could have been the poster child. 
>> The community he lived in was nearly 100% immigrants, mostly from eastern 
>> Europe, speaking a common (first) language of Greek. Every one of them was a 
>> hard working, hard core American, despite being firmly rooted in their 
>> former culture. They voted, actively participated in local government and 
>> community, and had a deep commitment to their community and it’s members. I 
>> can’t ever recall them saying anything about “how much better it was in the 
>> old country”.
>> 
>> Many of them, like my grandfather, were very prosperous business owners who 
>> built their businesses up from the ground with nothing more than sweat 
>> equity. I know that at the peak of his business career my Grandpa owned 
>> three taverns and at least one bowling alley. The whole time he had these 
>> businesses he was still working first shift at Granite City Steel! I have no 
>> idea of what his personal wealth was, but I have to believe it was 
>> substantial based on his business holdings. You wouldn’t know it from seeing 
>> his house or personal possessions. Much the same with his fellow business 
>> owners. A good example of this is when they decided they needed their own 
>> Orthodox church. They petitioned for a priest, got one within about a year, 
>> and in another year had built a beautiful church, paid for 100% by the 
>> community. I’m sure Grandpa wrote a big check for that.
>> 
>> Anyway, my point is that while he and his community were proud of their 
>> ethnicity and culture and practiced it regularly, it didn’t overshadow their 
>> love for the country and desire to be Americans. They assimilated, learned 
>> the language and trafficked easily with everyone else in the area regardless 
>> of their country of origin or ethnicity.
>> 
>> While I’m not totally comfortable with a “national language” requirement, I 
>> think the approach that a lot of countries like the Nordic ones have towards 
>> immigrants - if you want to come here you have a fixed time to learn our 
>> language. They also provide the resources to do so, which I also think is 
>> important.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I think thats very common, especially with Asian immigrants. My mother worked 
with a Filipino lady who's husband was in a nursing home. She was waiting for 
him to die so she could go back to the Philippines. She loved her husband but 
didn't particularly love the US and wanted to go home.
-Curt

On Thursday, April 30, 2020, 4:17:19 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 For what it is worth, I also suspect that a lot of our immigrants come 
here because they see it as a way to make a buck, but ultimately they do 
not want to be here and hope they make enough to retire "back home".

RB

On 30/04/2020 1:27 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> I agree with you wholeheartedly, Grant.
>
> Growing up around my paternal grandfather, who at that time had been in the 
> country for nearly 50 years and a citizen for 25-30 years, I got to see an 
> individual and the community around them and how they embraced the “American 
> dream/way/whatever”. Grandpa was the epitome of the patriotic immigrant - 
> Mother, apple pie, baseball, etc. Heck, he could have been the poster child. 
> The community he lived in was nearly 100% immigrants, mostly from eastern 
> Europe, speaking a common (first) language of Greek. Every one of them was a 
> hard working, hard core American, despite being firmly rooted in their former 
> culture. They voted, actively participated in local government and community, 
> and had a deep commitment to their community and it’s members. I can’t ever 
> recall them saying anything about “how much better it was in the old country”.
>
> Many of them, like my grandfather, were very prosperous business owners who 
> built their businesses up from the ground with nothing more than sweat 
> equity. I know that at the peak of his business career my Grandpa owned three 
> taverns and at least one bowling alley. The whole time he had these 
> businesses he was still working first shift at Granite City Steel! I have no 
> idea of what his personal wealth was, but I have to believe it was 
> substantial based on his business holdings. You wouldn’t know it from seeing 
> his house or personal possessions. Much the same with his fellow business 
> owners. A good example of this is when they decided they needed their own 
> Orthodox church. They petitioned for a priest, got one within about a year, 
> and in another year had built a beautiful church, paid for 100% by the 
> community. I’m sure Grandpa wrote a big check for that.
>
> Anyway, my point is that while he and his community were proud of their 
> ethnicity and culture and practiced it regularly, it didn’t overshadow their 
> love for the country and desire to be Americans. They assimilated, learned 
> the language and trafficked easily with everyone else in the area regardless 
> of their country of origin or ethnicity.
>
> While I’m not totally comfortable with a “national language” requirement, I 
> think the approach that a lot of countries like the Nordic ones have towards 
> immigrants - if you want to come here you have a fixed time to learn our 
> language. They also provide the resources to do so, which I also think is 
> important.
>
> -D
>


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 It depends on where you look. I like watching the maker community, people like 
Jimmy Diresta, Bob Clagget, Alec Steel you can see on YouTube. Theres lots of 
others as well on YouTube and elsewhere.
Years ago I took at welding class at The Steel Yard in Providence. It was 
really cool to walk around and see the artists and what they were working on. 
Mostly young folks but a few grey beards too.
Its too easy to watch TV and get all doom and gloom because you only see the 
morons. Its actually even easier on Facebook because most of those people are 
morons... Theres lots of good stuff going on, you just can't sit in your house, 
you gotta go look.
-Curt

On Thursday, April 30, 2020, 4:12:07 PM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Nobody knows how to work and build anything these days. It’s all give me give 
me give me 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2020, at 1:28 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I agree with you wholeheartedly, Grant.
> 
> Growing up around my paternal grandfather, who at that time had been in the 
> country for nearly 50 years and a citizen for 25-30 years, I got to see an 
> individual and the community around them and how they embraced the “American 
> dream/way/whatever”. Grandpa was the epitome of the patriotic immigrant - 
> Mother, apple pie, baseball, etc. Heck, he could have been the poster child. 
> The community he lived in was nearly 100% immigrants, mostly from eastern 
> Europe, speaking a common (first) language of Greek. Every one of them was a 
> hard working, hard core American, despite being firmly rooted in their former 
> culture. They voted, actively participated in local government and community, 
> and had a deep commitment to their community and it’s members. I can’t ever 
> recall them saying anything about “how much better it was in the old country”.
> 
> Many of them, like my grandfather, were very prosperous business owners who 
> built their businesses up from the ground with nothing more than sweat 
> equity. I know that at the peak of his business career my Grandpa owned three 
> taverns and at least one bowling alley. The whole time he had these 
> businesses he was still working first shift at Granite City Steel! I have no 
> idea of what his personal wealth was, but I have to believe it was 
> substantial based on his business holdings. You wouldn’t know it from seeing 
> his house or personal possessions. Much the same with his fellow business 
> owners. A good example of this is when they decided they needed their own 
> Orthodox church. They petitioned for a priest, got one within about a year, 
> and in another year had built a beautiful church, paid for 100% by the 
> community. I’m sure Grandpa wrote a big check for that.
> 
> Anyway, my point is that while he and his community were proud of their 
> ethnicity and culture and practiced it regularly, it didn’t overshadow their 
> love for the country and desire to be Americans. They assimilated, learned 
> the language and trafficked easily with everyone else in the area regardless 
> of their country of origin or ethnicity.
> 
> While I’m not totally comfortable with a “national language” requirement, I 
> think the approach that a lot of countries like the Nordic ones have towards 
> immigrants - if you want to come here you have a fixed time to learn our 
> language. They also provide the resources to do so, which I also think is 
> important.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 1:29 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I grew up in an America that was populated by people from all parts of the
>> world, but came to America and became American... regardless of where they
>> were from.
>> It was a good place, then.
>> 
>> Now, I live in an America that is populated by people from all parts of the
>> world, but came to America and still cling to not becoming American, but
>> claiming some sort of Hyphenated-American  which somehow insults me..
>> You either assimilate and become American.. or pack and move back to whence
>> you came. Being fixated on "your ethnicity" over tending to your adopted
>> country is a personal fail, in my view.
>> It is still a good place, just populated with some people who have lost
>> focus.
>> 
>> I don't much care where you are from, its where you are going that
>> interests me.
>> "Beauty is only skin deep, Ugly is clear to the bone."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 9:19 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> One should respect a person's potential wish to keep some personal
>>> information private, and choose what to divulge. People can be sensitive
>>> for all sorts of reasons- you never know what kind of race-based crap they
>>> might have had to deal with in their life. So it is understandable that
>>> many people are cagey about it. We dont typically ask people what religion
>>> they are, or how much money they have, or what political party they belong
>>> to either. Same with 

Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

For what it is worth, I also suspect that a lot of our immigrants come 
here because they see it as a way to make a buck, but ultimately they do 
not want to be here and hope they make enough to retire "back home".


RB

On 30/04/2020 1:27 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Grant.

Growing up around my paternal grandfather, who at that time had been in the 
country for nearly 50 years and a citizen for 25-30 years, I got to see an 
individual and the community around them and how they embraced the “American 
dream/way/whatever”. Grandpa was the epitome of the patriotic immigrant - 
Mother, apple pie, baseball, etc. Heck, he could have been the poster child. 
The community he lived in was nearly 100% immigrants, mostly from eastern 
Europe, speaking a common (first) language of Greek. Every one of them was a 
hard working, hard core American, despite being firmly rooted in their former 
culture. They voted, actively participated in local government and community, 
and had a deep commitment to their community and it’s members. I can’t ever 
recall them saying anything about “how much better it was in the old country”.

Many of them, like my grandfather, were very prosperous business owners who 
built their businesses up from the ground with nothing more than sweat equity. 
I know that at the peak of his business career my Grandpa owned three taverns 
and at least one bowling alley. The whole time he had these businesses he was 
still working first shift at Granite City Steel! I have no idea of what his 
personal wealth was, but I have to believe it was substantial based on his 
business holdings. You wouldn’t know it from seeing his house or personal 
possessions. Much the same with his fellow business owners. A good example of 
this is when they decided they needed their own Orthodox church. They 
petitioned for a priest, got one within about a year, and in another year had 
built a beautiful church, paid for 100% by the community. I’m sure Grandpa 
wrote a big check for that.

Anyway, my point is that while he and his community were proud of their 
ethnicity and culture and practiced it regularly, it didn’t overshadow their 
love for the country and desire to be Americans. They assimilated, learned the 
language and trafficked easily with everyone else in the area regardless of 
their country of origin or ethnicity.

While I’m not totally comfortable with a “national language” requirement, I 
think the approach that a lot of countries like the Nordic ones have towards 
immigrants - if you want to come here you have a fixed time to learn our 
language. They also provide the resources to do so, which I also think is 
important.

-D




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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Nobody knows how to work and build anything these days. It’s all give me give 
me give me 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2020, at 1:28 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I agree with you wholeheartedly, Grant.
> 
> Growing up around my paternal grandfather, who at that time had been in the 
> country for nearly 50 years and a citizen for 25-30 years, I got to see an 
> individual and the community around them and how they embraced the “American 
> dream/way/whatever”. Grandpa was the epitome of the patriotic immigrant - 
> Mother, apple pie, baseball, etc. Heck, he could have been the poster child. 
> The community he lived in was nearly 100% immigrants, mostly from eastern 
> Europe, speaking a common (first) language of Greek. Every one of them was a 
> hard working, hard core American, despite being firmly rooted in their former 
> culture. They voted, actively participated in local government and community, 
> and had a deep commitment to their community and it’s members. I can’t ever 
> recall them saying anything about “how much better it was in the old country”.
> 
> Many of them, like my grandfather, were very prosperous business owners who 
> built their businesses up from the ground with nothing more than sweat 
> equity. I know that at the peak of his business career my Grandpa owned three 
> taverns and at least one bowling alley. The whole time he had these 
> businesses he was still working first shift at Granite City Steel! I have no 
> idea of what his personal wealth was, but I have to believe it was 
> substantial based on his business holdings. You wouldn’t know it from seeing 
> his house or personal possessions. Much the same with his fellow business 
> owners. A good example of this is when they decided they needed their own 
> Orthodox church. They petitioned for a priest, got one within about a year, 
> and in another year had built a beautiful church, paid for 100% by the 
> community. I’m sure Grandpa wrote a big check for that.
> 
> Anyway, my point is that while he and his community were proud of their 
> ethnicity and culture and practiced it regularly, it didn’t overshadow their 
> love for the country and desire to be Americans. They assimilated, learned 
> the language and trafficked easily with everyone else in the area regardless 
> of their country of origin or ethnicity.
> 
> While I’m not totally comfortable with a “national language” requirement, I 
> think the approach that a lot of countries like the Nordic ones have towards 
> immigrants - if you want to come here you have a fixed time to learn our 
> language. They also provide the resources to do so, which I also think is 
> important.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 1:29 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I grew up in an America that was populated by people from all parts of the
>> world, but came to America and became American... regardless of where they
>> were from.
>> It was a good place, then.
>> 
>> Now, I live in an America that is populated by people from all parts of the
>> world, but came to America and still cling to not becoming American, but
>> claiming some sort of Hyphenated-American  which somehow insults me..
>> You either assimilate and become American.. or pack and move back to whence
>> you came. Being fixated on "your ethnicity" over tending to your adopted
>> country is a personal fail, in my view.
>> It is still a good place, just populated with some people who have lost
>> focus.
>> 
>> I don't much care where you are from, its where you are going that
>> interests me.
>> "Beauty is only skin deep, Ugly is clear to the bone."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 9:19 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> One should respect a person's potential wish to keep some personal
>>> information private, and choose what to divulge. People can be sensitive
>>> for all sorts of reasons- you never know what kind of race-based crap they
>>> might have had to deal with in their life. So it is understandable that
>>> many people are cagey about it. We dont typically ask people what religion
>>> they are, or how much money they have, or what political party they belong
>>> to either. Same with race and ethnicity. It shouldnt matter, fundamentally.
>>> Why do you want to know? A person is a person. But everybody grew up
>>> somewhere and that question seems to be neutral enough to be
>>> non-threatening. People can share what they want, but it isnt polite to put
>>> them on the spot.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:47 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 On 29/04/2020 4:20 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> Yes - that is what I always ask.  Solves all the awkward bits and
>>> allows
 a
> foreign born person to brag on their heritage.
> 
 but does not give you any information on their basic ethnic background
 if they were born in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Why has it 

Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Grant.

Growing up around my paternal grandfather, who at that time had been in the 
country for nearly 50 years and a citizen for 25-30 years, I got to see an 
individual and the community around them and how they embraced the “American 
dream/way/whatever”. Grandpa was the epitome of the patriotic immigrant - 
Mother, apple pie, baseball, etc. Heck, he could have been the poster child. 
The community he lived in was nearly 100% immigrants, mostly from eastern 
Europe, speaking a common (first) language of Greek. Every one of them was a 
hard working, hard core American, despite being firmly rooted in their former 
culture. They voted, actively participated in local government and community, 
and had a deep commitment to their community and it’s members. I can’t ever 
recall them saying anything about “how much better it was in the old country”.

Many of them, like my grandfather, were very prosperous business owners who 
built their businesses up from the ground with nothing more than sweat equity. 
I know that at the peak of his business career my Grandpa owned three taverns 
and at least one bowling alley. The whole time he had these businesses he was 
still working first shift at Granite City Steel! I have no idea of what his 
personal wealth was, but I have to believe it was substantial based on his 
business holdings. You wouldn’t know it from seeing his house or personal 
possessions. Much the same with his fellow business owners. A good example of 
this is when they decided they needed their own Orthodox church. They 
petitioned for a priest, got one within about a year, and in another year had 
built a beautiful church, paid for 100% by the community. I’m sure Grandpa 
wrote a big check for that.

Anyway, my point is that while he and his community were proud of their 
ethnicity and culture and practiced it regularly, it didn’t overshadow their 
love for the country and desire to be Americans. They assimilated, learned the 
language and trafficked easily with everyone else in the area regardless of 
their country of origin or ethnicity.

While I’m not totally comfortable with a “national language” requirement, I 
think the approach that a lot of countries like the Nordic ones have towards 
immigrants - if you want to come here you have a fixed time to learn our 
language. They also provide the resources to do so, which I also think is 
important.

-D

> On Apr 30, 2020, at 1:29 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I grew up in an America that was populated by people from all parts of the
> world, but came to America and became American... regardless of where they
> were from.
> It was a good place, then.
> 
> Now, I live in an America that is populated by people from all parts of the
> world, but came to America and still cling to not becoming American, but
> claiming some sort of Hyphenated-American  which somehow insults me..
> You either assimilate and become American.. or pack and move back to whence
> you came. Being fixated on "your ethnicity" over tending to your adopted
> country is a personal fail, in my view.
> It is still a good place, just populated with some people who have lost
> focus.
> 
> I don't much care where you are from, its where you are going that
> interests me.
> "Beauty is only skin deep, Ugly is clear to the bone."
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 9:19 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> One should respect a person's potential wish to keep some personal
>> information private, and choose what to divulge. People can be sensitive
>> for all sorts of reasons- you never know what kind of race-based crap they
>> might have had to deal with in their life. So it is understandable that
>> many people are cagey about it. We dont typically ask people what religion
>> they are, or how much money they have, or what political party they belong
>> to either. Same with race and ethnicity. It shouldnt matter, fundamentally.
>> Why do you want to know? A person is a person. But everybody grew up
>> somewhere and that question seems to be neutral enough to be
>> non-threatening. People can share what they want, but it isnt polite to put
>> them on the spot.
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:47 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 29/04/2020 4:20 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
 Yes - that is what I always ask.  Solves all the awkward bits and
>> allows
>>> a
 foreign born person to brag on their heritage.
 
>>> but does not give you any information on their basic ethnic background
>>> if they were born in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Why has it become somehow
>>> wrong to ask a person who obviously looks Asian if they have a Korean
>>> background? Some would not wish to be considered Chinese etc.
>>> 
>>> We are getting a fair number of black people here now. To my mind, it is
>>> more interesting to know that they are from Nigeria rather than ST.
>>> Paul, 

Re: [MBZ] Racism

[G Mann via Mercedes]

I grew up in an America that was populated by people from all parts of the
world, but came to America and became American... regardless of where they
were from.
It was a good place, then.

Now, I live in an America that is populated by people from all parts of the
world, but came to America and still cling to not becoming American, but
claiming some sort of Hyphenated-American  which somehow insults me..
You either assimilate and become American.. or pack and move back to whence
you came. Being fixated on "your ethnicity" over tending to your adopted
country is a personal fail, in my view.
It is still a good place, just populated with some people who have lost
focus.

I don't much care where you are from, its where you are going that
interests me.
"Beauty is only skin deep, Ugly is clear to the bone."



On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 9:19 AM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> One should respect a person's potential wish to keep some personal
> information private, and choose what to divulge. People can be sensitive
> for all sorts of reasons- you never know what kind of race-based crap they
> might have had to deal with in their life. So it is understandable that
> many people are cagey about it. We dont typically ask people what religion
> they are, or how much money they have, or what political party they belong
> to either. Same with race and ethnicity. It shouldnt matter, fundamentally.
> Why do you want to know? A person is a person. But everybody grew up
> somewhere and that question seems to be neutral enough to be
> non-threatening. People can share what they want, but it isnt polite to put
> them on the spot.
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:47 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > On 29/04/2020 4:20 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> > > Yes - that is what I always ask.  Solves all the awkward bits and
> allows
> > a
> > > foreign born person to brag on their heritage.
> > >
> > but does not give you any information on their basic ethnic background
> > if they were born in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Why has it become somehow
> > wrong to ask a person who obviously looks Asian if they have a Korean
> > background? Some would not wish to be considered Chinese etc.
> >
> > We are getting a fair number of black people here now. To my mind, it is
> > more interesting to know that they are from Nigeria rather than ST.
> > Paul, Minnesota.
> >
> > RB
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 30/04/2020 11:18 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:

One should respect a person's potential wish to keep some personal
information private, and choose what to divulge. People can be sensitive
for all sorts of reasons- you never know what kind of race-based crap they
might have had to deal with in their life. So it is understandable that
many people are cagey about it. We dont typically ask people what religion
they are, or how much money they have, or what political party they belong
to either. Same with race and ethnicity. It shouldnt matter, fundamentally.
Why do you want to know? A person is a person. But everybody grew up
somewhere and that question seems to be neutral enough to be
non-threatening. People can share what they want, but it isnt polite to put
them on the spot.

I cannot say that I agree with that. I would take the position that 
asking people questions about themselves is showing an interest in them.


One should not press the issue if the person essentially says, "mind 
your own business" but I would also say that is essentially saying "I 
have no interest in getting to know you" so, I should take that as a cue 
to just move on and not try to establish any relationship with them.


I think a lot of this relates to the current state of my world. I grew 
up in a very small town where everyone knew everyone. We were mostly 
"white" except for some native Indian folks. There were no black people, 
no Asian people,  and no real concerns about ethnic origins to amount to 
anything. I don't recall anyone speaking with a heavy accent. We spoke 
English. We were divided more by whether we were protestant or catholic 
than anything else.


Now I live in a city that has many old ethnic roots - Ukrainians, 
Icelanders, Jewish folks etc. There were also later immigrants - notably 
from the Philippines, in the 1970s but, we have also been overrun by 
immigrants in more recent years, from China, India, Pakistan, and 
Nigeria, and likely other countries, so there are many new faces and 
they are faces of various colours. That is still a bit of a curiosity 
here as it has not been all that long since the vast majority of people 
on the street were "white". We almost never saw a black person.


If I drive or bicycle through my neighbourhood now, the majority of 
people that I will see on the sidewalks will not be white. That likely 
will not be the case in small rural towns but it certainly is true here 
in the cities. Some neighbourhoods may be more white than others. I live 
very close to the University of Manitoba and that attracts a lot of 
foreign people so my area may not be representative of the whole city.


I think I have a natural curiosity when it comes to our newcomers.

RB



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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

One should respect a person's potential wish to keep some personal
information private, and choose what to divulge. People can be sensitive
for all sorts of reasons- you never know what kind of race-based crap they
might have had to deal with in their life. So it is understandable that
many people are cagey about it. We dont typically ask people what religion
they are, or how much money they have, or what political party they belong
to either. Same with race and ethnicity. It shouldnt matter, fundamentally.
Why do you want to know? A person is a person. But everybody grew up
somewhere and that question seems to be neutral enough to be
non-threatening. People can share what they want, but it isnt polite to put
them on the spot.

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 2:47 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On 29/04/2020 4:20 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> > Yes - that is what I always ask.  Solves all the awkward bits and allows
> a
> > foreign born person to brag on their heritage.
> >
> but does not give you any information on their basic ethnic background
> if they were born in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Why has it become somehow
> wrong to ask a person who obviously looks Asian if they have a Korean
> background? Some would not wish to be considered Chinese etc.
>
> We are getting a fair number of black people here now. To my mind, it is
> more interesting to know that they are from Nigeria rather than ST.
> Paul, Minnesota.
>
> RB
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

My local black folks call that “African black”

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Apr 29, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Exactly. Many of the ethnic groups in that part of Africa are *very* black, 
> rather than brown like most African Americans.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 6:04 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 29/04/2020 4:55 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>>> Not that it matters, but if they’re Nigerian, they most likely look very 
>>> different from a black (African-American) from Minnesota depending on what 
>>> part of Nigeria they’re from...
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
>> Quite true. Some are very black - ebony? And many are very tall and thin.
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I did laugh when I read this. We’re so ingrained about being asked these 
qualifying questions with an option for “I would rather not answer”.

-D

> On Apr 29, 2020, at 8:57 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
>> The health care worker patiently explained it was for genetic tendencies to 
>> disease. Oh.
> 
> The ONLY legitimate reason for such a question, IMHO.
> 
> -- Jim
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> The health care worker patiently explained it was for genetic tendencies to 
> disease. Oh.

The ONLY legitimate reason for such a question, IMHO.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Yeah, my sister in law is Nigerian.  Her father is a retired Anglican priest, 
lovely people now that Mom has learned enough English to communicate with the 
very language defficent local family (us).

Very different culture, but I enjoy the difference.  Far less individual 
"me-ness"  much more community inclusion.
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Exactly. Many of the ethnic groups in that part of Africa are *very* black, 
rather than brown like most African Americans.

-D

> On Apr 29, 2020, at 6:04 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 29/04/2020 4:55 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> Not that it matters, but if they’re Nigerian, they most likely look very 
>> different from a black (African-American) from Minnesota depending on what 
>> part of Nigeria they’re from...
>> 
>> -D
>> 
> Quite true. Some are very black - ebony? And many are very tall and thin.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 29/04/2020 4:55 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Not that it matters, but if they’re Nigerian, they most likely look very 
different from a black (African-American) from Minnesota depending on what part 
of Nigeria they’re from...

-D


Quite true. Some are very black - ebony? And many are very tall and thin.

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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Not that it matters, but if they’re Nigerian, they most likely look very 
different from a black (African-American) from Minnesota depending on what part 
of Nigeria they’re from...

-D

> On Apr 29, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 29/04/2020 4:20 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>> Yes - that is what I always ask.  Solves all the awkward bits and allows a
>> foreign born person to brag on their heritage.
>> 
> but does not give you any information on their basic ethnic background if 
> they were born in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Why has it become somehow wrong to ask 
> a person who obviously looks Asian if they have a Korean background? Some 
> would not wish to be considered Chinese etc.
> 
> We are getting a fair number of black people here now. To my mind, it is more 
> interesting to know that they are from Nigeria rather than ST. Paul, 
> Minnesota.
> 
> RB
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 29/04/2020 4:20 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

Yes - that is what I always ask.  Solves all the awkward bits and allows a
foreign born person to brag on their heritage.

but does not give you any information on their basic ethnic background 
if they were born in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Why has it become somehow 
wrong to ask a person who obviously looks Asian if they have a Korean 
background? Some would not wish to be considered Chinese etc.


We are getting a fair number of black people here now. To my mind, it is 
more interesting to know that they are from Nigeria rather than ST. 
Paul, Minnesota.


RB


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Yes - that is what I always ask.  Solves all the awkward bits and allows a
foreign born person to brag on their heritage.

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 5:01 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> My standard question is "Where did you grow up?" Most people don't mind
> talking about their childhood and what it was like growing up wherever they
> did.
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 12:47 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > This.
> >
> > Maybe racism was a poor choice of descriptors.
> >
> > This is sort of like the questions on the census about where you’re from.
> > America?
> >
> > > On Apr 29, 2020, at 3:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > She's not Korean, she's American. She was born in Orange county in
> > California.Its not really racism so much as just stupidity, he's not
> seeing
> > her as a person, he's seeing an asian person.
> > > To ask about someone's heritage is one thing, to not recognize that
> they
> > are and want to be an American from their responses is just rude.
> > > I'm with you though, its not racist. It irritates me that everything
> has
> > to be racism or a hate crime or whatever. People are just plain stupid,
> it
> > doesn't need an extra name.
> > > -Curt
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

My standard question is "Where did you grow up?" Most people don't mind
talking about their childhood and what it was like growing up wherever they
did.

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 12:47 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> This.
>
> Maybe racism was a poor choice of descriptors.
>
> This is sort of like the questions on the census about where you’re from.
> America?
>
> > On Apr 29, 2020, at 3:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > She's not Korean, she's American. She was born in Orange county in
> California.Its not really racism so much as just stupidity, he's not seeing
> her as a person, he's seeing an asian person.
> > To ask about someone's heritage is one thing, to not recognize that they
> are and want to be an American from their responses is just rude.
> > I'm with you though, its not racist. It irritates me that everything has
> to be racism or a hate crime or whatever. People are just plain stupid, it
> doesn't need an extra name.
> > -Curt
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I think it was far more common at the time. My paternal grandfather spoke 
Greek, Italian, French, some variants of Serbian and Turkish as well as German 
fluently. He used to ask us what language we wanted him to say the blessing 
over dinner in. According to what he told me, when he was in school as a young 
boy they taught several languages concurrently. This came out of a question 
about how he learned German, since it wasn’t really a language that was from 
around where he grew up. He said it was one of the languages they offered to 
teach at the time so he took the class.

I had a coworker who spoke several languages fluently (English, German, 
Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and French) that went with me to visit my 
grandfather when we were on a business trip near his home. Fred was able to 
converse with him in nearly all of the languages except Spanish and Portuguese. 
It was pretty cool, I thought. My grandfather got a kick out of it as well.

-D


> On Apr 29, 2020, at 4:39 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Exactly, my mom was actually born in Alabama, but did not speak English until 
> elementary school. She was fluent in Italian and French, as well as Sicilian. 
> My dad spoke Italian fluently, as well as Calabrese, Spanish, and some 
> Portuguese. The Romance languages are so similar.
> 
> Greg
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Meade 
> Dillon via Mercedes
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 1:26 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: Meade Dillon
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Racism
> 
> THAT'S funny!
> 
> The two dialects are probably so different that either your relatives
> needed a translator or spoke a common third language, maybe Italian.
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 4:19 PM Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I'm a mixed race background. Half Sicilian, half Calabrese. 100% American.
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

European? Didn't you know that Sicily won a Nobel Peace Prize a few years back? 
They were there only North African country that didn't send Jihadii to attack 
coalition forces in Iraq.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC


Apr 29, 2020 4:30:30 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes :

> I think you will find that many Europeans speak a number of languages at 
> least well enough to manage where ever they go.
> 
> RB
> 
> On 29/04/2020 3:25 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
> 
> > THAT'S funny!
> > 
> > The two dialects are probably so different that either your relatives
> > needed a translator or spoke a common third language, maybe Italian.
> > -
> > Max
> > Charleston SC
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 4:19 PM Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > I'm a mixed race background. Half Sicilian, half Calabrese. 100% American.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

Exactly, my mom was actually born in Alabama, but did not speak English until 
elementary school. She was fluent in Italian and French, as well as Sicilian. 
My dad spoke Italian fluently, as well as Calabrese, Spanish, and some 
Portuguese. The Romance languages are so similar.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Meade Dillon 
via Mercedes
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 1:26 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Meade Dillon
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Racism

THAT'S funny!

The two dialects are probably so different that either your relatives
needed a translator or spoke a common third language, maybe Italian.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 4:19 PM Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> I'm a mixed race background. Half Sicilian, half Calabrese. 100% American.
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I have my paternal grandfather’s citizenship certificate framed and hanging on 
my wall. After he passed his wife (my step-grandmother) found it in his wallet, 
folded up for nearly 50 years. She gave it to me and I had an archivist unfold 
it and mount it between two panes of glass, them matted them.

It took him several months to unfold it. It’s in amazingly good condition 
despite how it was kept over the years. The anglicization of his name is 
documented on the back, as a Federal judge did it as a part of his citizenship. 
He was Albanian, (Serbian/Slavic/Romanian) and as the run up to WWII was taking 
place and people were being less and less “nice” to eastern 
Europeans/foreigners he figured it would be a good idea to adopt his “new” 
country on a permanent basis. I presume he was living on a green card or 
whatever the equivalent was for many years.

-D

> On Apr 29, 2020, at 4:26 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> I’m sure an accomplished genealogist could get to the bottom of it,
>> but to be honest, no one really cares.
> 
> That's me. I have zero interest in my ancestry. I know where my parents
> and grandparents are from, because they told me, but don't really see
> the point in spending the time to find out more than that.
> 
> Allan
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Clay via Mercedes]

Take a peek at IMDB or other places that list biographic data about 
individuals.  Seems to be trendy to list your ethnic background.  Down to which 
brand of Judaism your line intermingled with. Even the pink people will list 
down to tribal affiliation is possible, be it Welsh, Pict, Viking, Jute, Saxon, 
or washed ashore drunk sailor.

The thread for those with roots in this hemisphere 400 years ago are tangled 
with all manner of other interesting to make the tapestry we are today.  This 
enumeration of tribal affiliations seems to have been born out of needing to 
specify that dark skinned people were out of Africa.  To the point that US 
tourists to Africa have been known to be racist to the point of referring to 
the natives as African Americans.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Apr 29, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> This.
> 
> Maybe racism was a poor choice of descriptors.
> 
> This is sort of like the questions on the census about where you’re from. 
> America?

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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

I think you will find that many Europeans speak a number of languages at 
least well enough to manage where ever they go.


RB

On 29/04/2020 3:25 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

THAT'S funny!

The two dialects are probably so different that either your relatives
needed a translator or spoke a common third language, maybe Italian.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 4:19 PM Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


I'm a mixed race background. Half Sicilian, half Calabrese. 100% American.






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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

THAT'S funny!

The two dialects are probably so different that either your relatives
needed a translator or spoke a common third language, maybe Italian.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 4:19 PM Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> I'm a mixed race background. Half Sicilian, half Calabrese. 100% American.
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:

> I’m sure an accomplished genealogist could get to the bottom of it,
> but to be honest, no one really cares.

That's me. I have zero interest in my ancestry. I know where my parents
and grandparents are from, because they told me, but don't really see
the point in spending the time to find out more than that.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

I'm with you on hating the race questions. I was being admitted to the hospital 
for knee replacement and went on a rant about the race question. The health 
care worker patiently explained it was for genetic tendencies to disease. Oh.

I'm a mixed race background. Half Sicilian, half Calabrese. 100% American.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey 
via Mercedes
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 12:53 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Jim Cathey
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Racism

As I race ever onwards towards that currently-oh-so-unfashionable "Dead
White Male" status, I more and more resent the "race" questions on various
official paperwork.  Who the F* cares?  Where's MLK Jr. when we need him?
These questions, and anything associated with them, are merely perpetuating
institutionalized racism, of which I want no part.

I usually decline to answer.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

That’s my Dad’s side of the family. He was a first generation immigrant. My 
paternal grandfather had his name anglicized when he applied for citizenship 
just prior to WWII. He had been in the country since 1912. We don’t really know 
how/where he came into the country other than he passed through Ellis Island 
with his cousin Charles. I’ve gotten close and possibly found him in ship’s 
registries, but there’s no sure thing that it’s him.

I’m sure an accomplished genealogist could get to the bottom of it, but to be 
honest, no one really cares.

As an aside:

I see records coming and going from our medical examiner’s office that involve 
efforts to identify next of kin. There’s a volunteer group that does research 
for free for medical examiners all over the country to assist them in locating 
the next of kin for people who have passed and have no information of such.

Seeing the amount a data and wide range of sources these people use to track 
someone’s family members down is nothing short of amazing. It’s really pretty 
cool.

-D

> On Apr 29, 2020, at 3:43 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Right. Unfortunately on my mother's side we don't have much information 
> beyond her parents. We're not sure why the came here from Finland. Actually 
> her dad was born in Montana but the family went back to Finland soon after. 
> So we don't know why the came here and went back and then came over again. My 
> aunt and uncle have been over but haven't found any real information as of 
> yet.
> -Curt
> 
>On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 3:39:11 PM EDT, Jim Cathey 
>  wrote:  
> 
>> My ancestors came to north America on the Mayflower, I'm 13th generation. My 
>> people stole this country from
> 
> Well, two out of the 4,096 did, anyhow.  That always bugged me about 
> geneological
> expeditions, the emphasis on the single 'most interesting' thread in the 
> weave.
> We've ALL got a lot of threads in our weave...
> 
> -- Jim
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 29/04/2020 2:43 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

  Right. Unfortunately on my mother's side we don't have much information 
beyond her parents. We're not sure why the came here from Finland. Actually her 
dad was born in Montana but the family went back to Finland soon after. So we 
don't know why the came here and went back and then came over again. My aunt 
and uncle have been over but haven't found any real information as of yet.
-Curt

  


That sort of thing is fairly common I would think. It used to be very 
easy to cross most borders, unlike today.


My maternal grandmother was born in Minnesota to parents who came to 
Canada from Norway and then went to the USA for a time about when she 
was born before coming back to Canada.


RB


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

As I race ever onwards towards that currently-oh-so-unfashionable "Dead
White Male" status, I more and more resent the "race" questions on various
official paperwork.  Who the F* cares?  Where's MLK Jr. when we need him?
These questions, and anything associated with them, are merely perpetuating
institutionalized racism, of which I want no part.

I usually decline to answer.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

This.

Maybe racism was a poor choice of descriptors.

This is sort of like the questions on the census about where you’re from. 
America?

> On Apr 29, 2020, at 3:38 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> She's not Korean, she's American. She was born in Orange county in 
> California.Its not really racism so much as just stupidity, he's not seeing 
> her as a person, he's seeing an asian person.
> To ask about someone's heritage is one thing, to not recognize that they are 
> and want to be an American from their responses is just rude.
> I'm with you though, its not racist. It irritates me that everything has to 
> be racism or a hate crime or whatever. People are just plain stupid, it 
> doesn't need an extra name.
> -Curt


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> we don't know why they came here and went back and then came over again.

To continue my pop entertainment theme, this reminds me of that
scene with the penguins in the Madagascar animated movie.  "Well,
this sucks."

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Everybody sing, now!

Everyones A Little Bit Racist - YouTube 


-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Right. Unfortunately on my mother's side we don't have much information beyond 
her parents. We're not sure why the came here from Finland. Actually her dad 
was born in Montana but the family went back to Finland soon after. So we don't 
know why the came here and went back and then came over again. My aunt and 
uncle have been over but haven't found any real information as of yet.
-Curt

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 3:39:11 PM EDT, Jim Cathey 
 wrote:  
 
 > My ancestors came to north America on the Mayflower, I'm 13th generation. My 
 > people stole this country from

Well, two out of the 4,096 did, anyhow.  That always bugged me about 
geneological
expeditions, the emphasis on the single 'most interesting' thread in the weave.
We've ALL got a lot of threads in our weave...

-- Jim
  
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

I loved that one scene in Short Circuit, where when the (fake) Indian guy
is asked where his parents (?) are from, answers "Bakersfield."

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> My ancestors came to north America on the Mayflower, I'm 13th generation. My 
> people stole this country from

Well, two out of the 4,096 did, anyhow.  That always bugged me about 
geneological
expeditions, the emphasis on the single 'most interesting' thread in the weave.
We've ALL got a lot of threads in our weave...

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 She's not Korean, she's American. She was born in Orange county in 
California.Its not really racism so much as just stupidity, he's not seeing her 
as a person, he's seeing an asian person.
To ask about someone's heritage is one thing, to not recognize that they are 
and want to be an American from their responses is just rude.
I'm with you though, its not racist. It irritates me that everything has to be 
racism or a hate crime or whatever. People are just plain stupid, it doesn't 
need an extra name.
-Curt

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 3:25:01 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 On 29/04/2020 8:24 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> This is actually pretty funny, but sad:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/tko2one/videos/1031472077131/
>
> -D
>
I guess I am a dinosaur when it comes to things like this. Yes it was a 
bit funny, all things considered, but why is it sad?

Are we really to pretend that we don't notice that people are different? 
Ethnic minorities use it to their advantage and wave their proverbial 
arms to be noticed when it suits them but we are not supposed to notice 
otherwise?

Why is it "racism" when the young fellow tries to ask the young lady 
about her family background. She is obviously Asian. She ultimately says 
her background is Korean if my memory is accurate. Why is that an 
improper issue? Why is she offended by his questions?  He did not swear 
at her or in some manner try to put her down because she appeared to be 
Asian. He just asked her what her family background was.

I am a mix of European, Scandinavian and British Isles. I am not 
offended if someone asks about my family background. If an Asian, Indian 
or African  person asked me where my family came from I would be happy 
enough to tell them and would not be offended because their skin or 
other physical features were different than mine and they happened to 
notice it and ask me about it.

Racism used to be about hatred. Now it seems to have become whatever 
someone slightly different than you thinks if you happen to notice that 
they are different than you.

RB


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

everything is raysiss

--FT

On 4/29/20 3:24 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:

On 29/04/2020 8:24 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

This is actually pretty funny, but sad:

https://www.facebook.com/tko2one/videos/1031472077131/

-D

I guess I am a dinosaur when it comes to things like this. Yes it was 
a bit funny, all things considered, but why is it sad?


Are we really to pretend that we don't notice that people are 
different? Ethnic minorities use it to their advantage and wave their 
proverbial arms to be noticed when it suits them but we are not 
supposed to notice otherwise?


Why is it "racism" when the young fellow tries to ask the young lady 
about her family background. She is obviously Asian. She ultimately 
says her background is Korean if my memory is accurate. Why is that an 
improper issue? Why is she offended by his questions?  He did not 
swear at her or in some manner try to put her down because she 
appeared to be Asian. He just asked her what her family background was.


I am a mix of European, Scandinavian and British Isles. I am not 
offended if someone asks about my family background. If an Asian, 
Indian or African  person asked me where my family came from I would 
be happy enough to tell them and would not be offended because their 
skin or other physical features were different than mine and they 
happened to notice it and ask me about it.


Racism used to be about hatred. Now it seems to have become whatever 
someone slightly different than you thinks if you happen to notice 
that they are different than you.


RB


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--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I've been called racist for asking "Where are your people from?" which is 
silly. My ancestors came to north America on the Mayflower, I'm 13th 
generation. My people stole this country from the people who were already here 
fair and square. My being interested in your ancestry doesn't make me racist, 
it makes me interested...
Usually once I explain people get flustered. Then some of them like to tell me 
everything. Its also interesting the people that have no idea, they've never 
considered how they got here...
-Curt

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 3:21:38 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via 
Mercedes  wrote:  
 
 ROFL.

Note: My ex-spouse was Burmese and she got this a LOT, including from me
when we first met...

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 9:25 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> This is actually pretty funny, but sad:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/tko2one/videos/1031472077131/
>
> -D
>
>
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 29/04/2020 8:24 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

This is actually pretty funny, but sad:

https://www.facebook.com/tko2one/videos/1031472077131/

-D

I guess I am a dinosaur when it comes to things like this. Yes it was a 
bit funny, all things considered, but why is it sad?


Are we really to pretend that we don't notice that people are different? 
Ethnic minorities use it to their advantage and wave their proverbial 
arms to be noticed when it suits them but we are not supposed to notice 
otherwise?


Why is it "racism" when the young fellow tries to ask the young lady 
about her family background. She is obviously Asian. She ultimately says 
her background is Korean if my memory is accurate. Why is that an 
improper issue? Why is she offended by his questions?  He did not swear 
at her or in some manner try to put her down because she appeared to be 
Asian. He just asked her what her family background was.


I am a mix of European, Scandinavian and British Isles. I am not 
offended if someone asks about my family background. If an Asian, Indian 
or African  person asked me where my family came from I would be happy 
enough to tell them and would not be offended because their skin or 
other physical features were different than mine and they happened to 
notice it and ask me about it.


Racism used to be about hatred. Now it seems to have become whatever 
someone slightly different than you thinks if you happen to notice that 
they are different than you.


RB


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Re: [MBZ] Racism

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

ROFL.

Note: My ex-spouse was Burmese and she got this a LOT, including from me
when we first met...

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 9:25 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> This is actually pretty funny, but sad:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/tko2one/videos/1031472077131/
>
> -D
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
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