Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Max.

The house always wins.

(Dagnabbit!)


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Max Dillon via 
Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: 07 October 2017 14:33
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Max Dillon
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vegas

I hope we all recognize the game, which brings in political donations for all 
sides, and enriches the gun industry.

What did I get?  Nuttin'.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

I hope we all recognize the game, which brings in political donations for all 
sides, and enriches the gun industry.  

What did I get?  Nuttin'.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 7, 2017 at 8:46 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Its strange that as soon as something looks like it might get banned a whole 
> bunch of people who didn't want them before all of a sudden think it's 
> valuable.

Like AK and SKS pattern rifles and carbines in 1994/1995.
Interest picked up from near zero to pretty massive because the Dems and the 
media kept telling us how special they were. Then when the ban passed there 
were millions of AKs swiftly imported before the ban took effect. Then when 
those were gone, the Chinese sent us millions of SKSs without bayonets and 
other 'Assault Rifle' features, and the DIY market was flooded with 'AK47 parts 
kits', which were basically used AKs bought from former Soviet governments for 
$10 each, with enough US made parts (receivers, fire control groups, etc) added 
to make them legally US guns. Bill Clinton's 1994 AWB brought attention to 
'black rifles' and created a market interest in them, and in the last half of 
his administration they were wildly popular, when most shooters had no interest 
in them before the Dems started talking about 'Assault Weapons'. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Its strange that as soon as something looks like it might get banned a whole 
bunch of people who didn't want them before all of a sudden think it's valuable.
I have no interest, I'm building one shot at a time and enjoying the rock lock 
although I did just get an over/under .50 Cal percussion rifle.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:50 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via 
Mercedes wrote:   Nobody was buying them before. All the 
sudden everyone wants them?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 6, 2017, at 4:33 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I never thought those Slide Fire stocks were worth $200, but now that 
> Feinstein has introduced kneejerk legislation to ban them, the price has gone 
> up:
> 
> http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/robert-farago/bump-fire-stock-sold-for-1250-on-gunbroker-com/
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 6, 2017 at 11:50 PM "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Nobody was buying them before. All the sudden everyone wants them?

Get 'em while they're still legal, I guess. 
But if it's in anticipation of them becoming NFA items like machine guns, you 
better pay cash in a store that doesn't keep their surveillance video forever, 
buying it on the internet is just asking for it. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[MG via Mercedes]

There's nothing like advertising to move a product.

Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

Nobody was buying them before. All the sudden everyone wants them?

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 6, 2017, at 4:33 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
wrote:


I never thought those Slide Fire stocks were worth $200, but now that Feinstein 
has introduced kneejerk legislation to ban them, the price has gone up:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/robert-farago/bump-fire-stock-sold-for-1250-on-gunbroker-com/

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Nobody was buying them before. All the sudden everyone wants them?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 6, 2017, at 4:33 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I never thought those Slide Fire stocks were worth $200, but now that 
> Feinstein has introduced kneejerk legislation to ban them, the price has gone 
> up:
> 
> http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/robert-farago/bump-fire-stock-sold-for-1250-on-gunbroker-com/
> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I never thought those Slide Fire stocks were worth $200, but now that Feinstein 
has introduced kneejerk legislation to ban them, the price has gone up:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/robert-farago/bump-fire-stock-sold-for-1250-on-gunbroker-com/

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

The AK-47 and AK-74 (like M-1 Garand, M-14, piston ARs, and many others) has an 
operating rod that runs from the bolt carrier to a piston somewhere near to the 
muzzle.  So the hot combustion gas acts on this piston, many inches forward of 
the bolt carrier.  So a piston rifle bolt carrier stays clean(er) and cool 
(er).  A true AR bolt carrier is literally washed in hot combustion gas with 
each shot.  They even make special tools to chip the carbon off the AR bolt 
carrier.  Even so, some ARs have run thousands of rounds without stoppage and 
have never been cleaned.

The AK is also built to much looser clearances so it is less vulnerable to sand 
and dirt fouling but also less accurate.   

Better is another matter.  All things being equal, a piston gun is heavier and 
more complex.  Also, the finish on an AK is rough (sharp edges) and hard in 
ungloved hands.  An AR is much smoother.

The real beauty of the AR-15 is simplicity, ease of cleaning (except maybe the 
bolt carrier), and standardization.  In theory mil-spec AR parts from and 
builder should interchange.  With quality (clean) ammo and lubrication (bolt 
carrier) they are very reliable.  Very few special tools are needed to assemble 
or maintain an AR.

> -Original Message-
> From:  archer75--- via Mercedes
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 9:35 PM
> 
> Why is the AK-47 better about that?
> BTW the AK-47s are now, or soon will be, made in Florida.
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/kalashnikov-ak-47s-now-made-
> in-florida/vi-BBoFW8o
> Gerry


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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Why is the AK-47 better about that?
BTW the AK-47s are now, or soon will be, made in Florida.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/kalashnikov-ak-47s-now-made-in-florida/vi-BBoFW8o
Gerry

On Thu, 5 Oct 2017 17:21:19 -0400
Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  wrote:
 
> The M-16/AR-15 use direct impingement where some combustion gas from the 
> barrel is piped directly to the bolt carrier; this is what pushes the bolt 
> carrier back to cycle the action after each shot (eject the spent shell 
> casing and load the next round).  As a consequence, the bolt carrier will 
> also get hot and dirty, which can cause a jam, especially if it is not kept 
> well lubricated.  

> > Does high rate continuous shooting tend to melt the barrel?
> > tin.man


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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I want to talk about what Jabba's role was in the Kennedy assassination. 
Afterwards, I would like to talk about Obama, Hillary, Bush, and Trump. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2017, at 8:18 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Oct 5, 2017, at 9:08 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thank you Curt. I agree about the talking specu-heads and the conversation
>> here.  There has been a lot of good  MB content lately. I would like to
>> stay there.
>> Dwight
>> 1982 300CD
>> 2005 E320 4matic
>> 
>> Dwight Giles Jr.
>> Wickford RI
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I wouldn't be upset if the Vegas conversation went off of this list. In
>>> the wake of something like it the endless speculation irritates the crap
>>> out of me. I hate hearing "We STILL don't have any hard facts so let me
>>> make guesses for an hour." why do people watch those shows?
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, 9:37:10 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes.  Nothing  wrong with the Las Vegas conversation, but it’s drifting
>>> off into areas that are off limits.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:57 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 
> On October 4, 2017 at 7:56 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> OK, guys.  The conversation is moving into forbidden topics.  Please
>>> refrain.  I’ll not ask again or remind.
 
 You mean the Clinton and Kennedy stuff, right?
 
 Mitch.
 
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

High rate fire can make a barrel very hot, even glow in low light, soften 
rather than melt.  That's why many heavy machine guns are water-cooled and good 
light machine guns have quick-change barrels.  A hot barrel will erode quickly 
from the combustion gasses, resulting in loss of accuracy and muzzle velocity.

The M-16/AR-15 use direct impingement where some combustion gas from the barrel 
is piped directly to the bolt carrier; this is what pushes the bolt carrier 
back to cycle the action after each shot (eject the spent shell casing and load 
the next round).  As a consequence, the bolt carrier will also get hot and 
dirty, which can cause a jam, especially if it is not kept well lubricated.  
Still, most jams are magazine-related; high-capacity (greater than 30-40 
rounds) AR magazines are not reliable.


> -Original Message-
> From:  Mountain Man via Mercedes
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 11:43 AM
> ...
> 
> Does high rate continuous shooting tend to melt the barrel?
> tin.man


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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[OK Don via Mercedes]

McVeigh and accomplice practiced building bombs outside of Kingman, AZ -
"perfecting " their technique. There's lots of info on the internet, so no,
I don't find a need for conspiracy theories.

I felt the blast from about a mile and a half away. My photo lab processed
the film from some of the first responders. One of my friends was the Doc
who amputated a woman's leg to pull her out of the ruble (he also set my
daughter's broken arm).

I didn't know anyone killed that day, but my kids had friends in school who
did lose parents. This one event does touch personal nerve endings.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:01 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> > On October 4, 2017 at 11:27 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > I recall the general tapped to research the okc bombing stating in his
> > report that a truck bomb on the street could never generate the pressure
> > required to pulverize the concrete in the columns supporting the building
> > in the parking area.
>
> I have a personal theory about that.
> The obvious answer is that somehow McVeigh, or whoever built that bomb for
> him, was the world's greatest expert in improvised explosives.
>
> The more practical answer is that the building was put up by government
> contractors who cheated like crazy on the concrete composition and
> reinforcements, allowing the federal building to fall down when smaller and
> supposedly weaker structures on the other side of the street, much closer
> to the bomb, were more lightly damaged.
>
> Mitch.
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Karl wrote:
> Certainly using video evidence from the internet isnt going to suffice.

Rephrase that: Certainly using voodoo evidence from the internet...
There is a sphinx and obelisk at the concert area...
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

CNN vs Facebook?  Come on, there's no difference between the 2...
LarryT

On 10/04/2017 10:13 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

Facebook is your news source?  What's wrong with going to CNN's website?

Facebook sez: "You must log in to continue".   No thanks!  I value my
privacy.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


You can very clearly see muzzle flash from a much lower floor and not on
the end where the guy supposedly did the shooting

https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10157393701071509/



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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

What are the Mercedes channels?

RB

On 05/10/2017 11:25 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

‎Curt replied:


I agree Rick, I haven't got cable and >watch almost no TV. Sadly radio is pretty 
>much the same...

I listen to "traffic and weather on the eights" and a bit of news every day. A 
few YouTube videos is all I watch on the TV. Ave, and a few other instructive, 
entertaining ones, Dave Ramsey, and an op-ed channel or two.
I have a couple pretty good Mercedes channels I subscribe to, also.
Oh, and there's this Coleman stove guy that has some really neat vids, but he 
hasn't put one out in a while.
‎I should put some videos up, but it seems like a lot of work...

I did away with cable many years ago.

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

‎Curt replied:

>I agree Rick, I haven't got cable and >watch almost no TV. Sadly radio is 
>pretty >much the same...

I listen to "traffic and weather on the eights" and a bit of news every day. A 
few YouTube videos is all I watch on the TV. Ave, and a few other instructive, 
entertaining ones, Dave Ramsey, and an op-ed channel or two.
I have a couple pretty good Mercedes channels I subscribe to, also.
Oh, and there's this Coleman stove guy that has some really neat vids, but he 
hasn't put one out in a while.
‎I should put some videos up, but it seems like a lot of work...

I did away with cable many years ago.

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Millions take those meds but only one attempted mass murder.

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:25 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> Meade Dillon wrote:
> > Gerry, I think Ocam's razor will lead us to your explanation as either
> > entirely or mostly at the base of the question "Why?".
> >
> > There may also be a link to the anti-anxiety medication he reportedly
> had a
> > prescription to, was it Diazepram?
>
> > Max not wearing his AFDB today
> > Charleston SC
> ~
> There are a number of anti-anxiety medications...
>
> alprazolam (Xanax)
> clonazepam (Klonopin)
> diazepam (Valium)
> lorazepam (Ativan)
> oxazepam (Serax)
>
> ...that are most often prescribed. Librium (chlordiazepoxide), which is
> seldom prescribed anymore, would cause bizarre and even criminal behaviour
> when mixed with alcohol. I'm not sure about the current medications.
> Here is an interesting study:
>
> https://www.livescience.com/51030-benzodiazepines-pain-
> relievers-homicide-risk.html
>
> I know Valium and Xanax are benzodiazepines and the others probably are as
> well.
>
> Also, a person with psychotic tendencies (genes?) can have a "psychotic
> break" and do things they wouldn't normally do.
>
> Considering his long history of very normal behaviour, however, I'm
> leaning more toward the old standby, "Look for the money", so I think OK
> Don might be on the right track.
>
> If he owed the hotels casino a large amount of money, couldn't pay it, and
> knew the hotel casinos owners would eventually "punish" him;
> shooting up a venue on their property might have been his way of getting
> revenge "in advance" since he figured he was going to die or be seriously
> injured anyway, but who knows? It may have been a situation no one has
> thought of.
> Gerry
>
>
>
> > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:17 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The shooters father had a "serious mental disorder; bipolar polar
> disorder
> > > or psychosis?:
> > >
> > > "An escaped federal prisoner poster issued by the FBI at the time said
> > > (Paddocks father) was “diagnosed as psychopathic” and “reportedly has
> > > suicidal tendencies and should be considered armed and dangerous.”
> > >
> > > Paddocks father could have been a bipolar:
> > > " Studies report rates of bipolar disorder between 4% and 15% in
> children
> > > with one bipolar parent, compared to 0% to 2% in the offspring of
> parents
> > > who don't have the disorder."
> > > http://www.health.com/health/condition-article/0,,20275258,00.html
> > >
> > > Bipolars sometimes commit suicide when they in the depressive phase of
> the
> > > disease. Most mass killers are psychotics.
> > > Gerry
>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Meade Dillon wrote:
> Gerry, I think Ocam's razor will lead us to your explanation as either
> entirely or mostly at the base of the question "Why?".
> 
> There may also be a link to the anti-anxiety medication he reportedly had a
> prescription to, was it Diazepram?

> Max not wearing his AFDB today
> Charleston SC
~
There are a number of anti-anxiety medications... 

alprazolam (Xanax) 
clonazepam (Klonopin) 
diazepam (Valium) 
lorazepam (Ativan) 
oxazepam (Serax)

...that are most often prescribed. Librium (chlordiazepoxide), which is seldom 
prescribed anymore, would cause bizarre and even criminal behaviour when mixed 
with alcohol. I'm not sure about the current medications. 
Here is an interesting study:

https://www.livescience.com/51030-benzodiazepines-pain-relievers-homicide-risk.html

I know Valium and Xanax are benzodiazepines and the others probably are as well.
 
Also, a person with psychotic tendencies (genes?) can have a "psychotic break" 
and do things they wouldn't normally do.

Considering his long history of very normal behaviour, however, I'm leaning 
more toward the old standby, "Look for the money", so I think OK Don might be 
on the right track.

If he owed the hotels casino a large amount of money, couldn't pay it, and knew 
the hotel casinos owners would eventually "punish" him;
shooting up a venue on their property might have been his way of getting 
revenge "in advance" since he figured he was going to die or be seriously 
injured anyway, but who knows? It may have been a situation no one has thought 
of.
Gerry

 
 
> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:17 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > The shooters father had a "serious mental disorder; bipolar polar disorder
> > or psychosis?:
> >
> > "An escaped federal prisoner poster issued by the FBI at the time said
> > (Paddocks father) was “diagnosed as psychopathic” and “reportedly has
> > suicidal tendencies and should be considered armed and dangerous.”
> >
> > Paddocks father could have been a bipolar:
> > " Studies report rates of bipolar disorder between 4% and 15% in children
> > with one bipolar parent, compared to 0% to 2% in the offspring of parents
> > who don't have the disorder."
> > http://www.health.com/health/condition-article/0,,20275258,00.html
> >
> > Bipolars sometimes commit suicide when they in the depressive phase of the
> > disease. Most mass killers are psychotics.
> > Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I agree Rick, I haven't got cable and watch almost no TV. Sadly radio is pretty 
much the same...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 9:04 AM, Rick Knoble via 
Mercedes wrote:   Curt inquires, probably rhetorically :

>‎why do people watch those shows?

Sorry Curt, because I know you are involved in video production, but why does 
anyone watch TV at all?

Rick
Currently listening to the radio
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

That reminds me, picked up a copy of Anchorman a few weeks ago, still need
to watch that.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> ISIS agent funded by the Bilderberg Group amd OWG interests triggered by
> Russian fake news published on Facebook using guns trafficked to Mexico by
> the Obama Justice Department that were supplied by North Korea.
>
> You won't believe what happens next!  Tune into Fox News Channel for
> breathless updates!
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

ISIS agent funded by the Bilderberg Group amd OWG interests triggered by 
Russian fake news published on Facebook using guns trafficked to Mexico 
by the Obama Justice Department that were supplied by North Korea.


You won't believe what happens next!  Tune into Fox News Channel for 
breathless updates!


--R


On 10/5/17 9:45 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

On October 5, 2017 at 8:55 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
wrote:


In the wake of something like it the endless speculation irritates the crap out of me. I 
hate hearing "We STILL don't have any hard facts so let me make guesses for an 
hour." why do people watch those shows?

And the sheriff is either guessing out loud about accomplices in front of 
cameras, or pretending the disclosure of nonpublic investigative information is 
merely speculation...either way it fuels the conspiracy theories...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/robert-farago/clarke-county-sheriff-joseph-lombardo-las-vegas-killer-accomplice-maybe/

...and that's the last I'll say in this thread.

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 5, 2017 at 8:55 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> In the wake of something like it the endless speculation irritates the crap 
> out of me. I hate hearing "We STILL don't have any hard facts so let me make 
> guesses for an hour." why do people watch those shows?

And the sheriff is either guessing out loud about accomplices in front of 
cameras, or pretending the disclosure of nonpublic investigative information is 
merely speculation...either way it fuels the conspiracy theories...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/robert-farago/clarke-county-sheriff-joseph-lombardo-las-vegas-killer-accomplice-maybe/

...and that's the last I'll say in this thread.

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Agreed.

-D

> On Oct 5, 2017, at 9:08 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Thank you Curt. I agree about the talking specu-heads and the conversation
> here.  There has been a lot of good  MB content lately. I would like to
> stay there.
> Dwight
> 1982 300CD
> 2005 E320 4matic
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 
> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I wouldn't be upset if the Vegas conversation went off of this list. In
>> the wake of something like it the endless speculation irritates the crap
>> out of me. I hate hearing "We STILL don't have any hard facts so let me
>> make guesses for an hour." why do people watch those shows?
>> -Curt
>> 
>> 
>>On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, 9:37:10 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes.  Nothing  wrong with the Las Vegas conversation, but it’s drifting
>> off into areas that are off limits.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:57 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 On October 4, 2017 at 7:56 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 
 OK, guys.  The conversation is moving into forbidden topics.  Please
>> refrain.  I’ll not ask again or remind.
>>> 
>>> You mean the Clinton and Kennedy stuff, right?
>>> 
>>> Mitch.
>>> 
>>> ___
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Thank you Curt. I agree about the talking specu-heads and the conversation
here.  There has been a lot of good  MB content lately. I would like to
stay there.
Dwight
1982 300CD
2005 E320 4matic

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I wouldn't be upset if the Vegas conversation went off of this list. In
> the wake of something like it the endless speculation irritates the crap
> out of me. I hate hearing "We STILL don't have any hard facts so let me
> make guesses for an hour." why do people watch those shows?
> -Curt
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, 9:37:10 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
>  Yes.  Nothing  wrong with the Las Vegas conversation, but it’s drifting
> off into areas that are off limits.
>
>
> > On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:57 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On October 4, 2017 at 7:56 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> OK, guys.  The conversation is moving into forbidden topics.  Please
> refrain.  I’ll not ask again or remind.
> >
> > You mean the Clinton and Kennedy stuff, right?
> >
> > Mitch.
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Curt inquires, probably rhetorically :

>‎why do people watch those shows?

Sorry Curt, because I know you are involved in video production, but why does 
anyone watch TV at all?

Rick
Currently listening to the radio
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Gerry sez:

>‎Bipolars sometimes commit suicide >when they in the depressive phase of the 
>>disease. Most mass killers are >psychotics.

A commonality amongst mass shooters has been SSRI use. I'm sure they work very 
well in some people, in others, not so much. In particular, males under the age 
of 30 or so (because their brains are still developing?). The youth aspect 
doesn't apply here, but perhaps SSRI's do...

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I wouldn't be upset if the Vegas conversation went off of this list. In the 
wake of something like it the endless speculation irritates the crap out of me. 
I hate hearing "We STILL don't have any hard facts so let me make guesses for 
an hour." why do people watch those shows?
-Curt
 

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017, 9:37:10 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Yes.  Nothing  wrong with the Las Vegas conversation, but it’s drifting off 
into areas that are off limits.


> On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:57 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On October 4, 2017 at 7:56 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> OK, guys.  The conversation is moving into forbidden topics.  Please 
>> refrain.  I’ll not ask again or remind.
> 
> You mean the Clinton and Kennedy stuff, right?
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Gerry, I think Ocam's razor will lead us to your explanation as either
entirely or mostly at the base of the question "Why?".

There may also be a link to the anti-anxiety medication he reportedly had a
prescription to, was it Diazepram?

-
Max not wearing his AFDB today
Charleston SC

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:17 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The shooters father had a "serious mental disorder; bipolar polar disorder
> or psychosis?:
>
> "An escaped federal prisoner poster issued by the FBI at the time said
> (Paddocks father) was “diagnosed as psychopathic” and “reportedly has
> suicidal tendencies and should be considered armed and dangerous.”
>
> Paddocks father could have been a bipolar:
> " Studies report rates of bipolar disorder between 4% and 15% in children
> with one bipolar parent, compared to 0% to 2% in the offspring of parents
> who don't have the disorder."
> http://www.health.com/health/condition-article/0,,20275258,00.html
>
> Bipolars sometimes commit suicide when they in the depressive phase of the
> disease. Most mass killers are psychotics.
> Gerry
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

The shooters father had a "serious mental disorder; bipolar polar disorder or 
psychosis?:

"An escaped federal prisoner poster issued by the FBI at the time said 
(Paddocks father) was “diagnosed as psychopathic” and “reportedly has suicidal 
tendencies and should be considered armed and dangerous.”

Paddocks father could have been a bipolar:
" Studies report rates of bipolar disorder between 4% and 15% in children with 
one bipolar parent, compared to 0% to 2% in the offspring of parents who don't 
have the disorder."
http://www.health.com/health/condition-article/0,,20275258,00.html

Bipolars sometimes commit suicide when they in the depressive phase of the 
disease. Most mass killers are psychotics.
Gerry

Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
> Yeah, but his profile just does not compute for this sort of crime that
> involves suicide at the end.  What are your thoughts?  Random act?  Forgot
> to take his meds?
 
> > One does not need to have a brain tumor in order to be crazy.
> > RB
> >
> >
> > On 04/10/2017 3:58 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> No way this sort of evildoer would want to commit suicide unless he had
> >> pure hatred for happy people plus an inoperable brain tumor.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> He did have. It was mysteriously removed soon after the shooting.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> 
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  "Paddock did not have a Facebook account, which makes him unusual,
> 
> >>> compared
> >>>
>  to other 21st century mass shooters and terrorists."
> 
>  Yet another reason to avoid Fakebook?
> 
> 
>  -
>  Max
>  Charleston SC
> 
>  On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> 
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >>>
>  wrote:
> 
>  http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/shooter-in-bloody-vegas-gun-
> > massacre-was-longtime-federal-agent/
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> 
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> 
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> >>>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

This talk about the Murrah Building reminds me of a passage in a 1996 novel 
where the characters briefly discussed the issue:

"Earl, before we get talking about other stuff, what's your read on this 
Oklahoma City thing? I've used more explosives than most people, and there's a 
lot of things that don't look right to me, but I'm no authority on blowing up 
urban targets with improvised charges. Everybody's been talking about it ever 
since it happened, but I haven't heard an opinion from a real expert. What do 
you think?"

"It's interesting you should be skeptical, Henry," Earl Taylor-Edgarton said. 
"There are a number of things which don't sit right in my mind, as well. I can 
say this with authority: if Mr. McVeigh did in Europe what he is alleged to 
have done here, he would be hailed by every newspaper and magazine on the 
Continent as an absolute 'Master Bomber'."

"Why?" Cindy asked.

"For one, because of his faultless construction of an improvised shaped charge 
on such a grand scale. The blast in Oklahoma City was a directional one. A car 
bomb sitting in an open area normally radiates its force equally all 'round. 
However, in Oklahoma, the devastation directed towards the Federal building far
exceeded the damage on the other side of the bomb. I saw a quick mention of the 
theory that the bomber used sandbags inside the vehicle to direct the blast, 
but I'll tell you straight, there's quite a bit more to it than that." Henry 
and Cindy both nodded in understanding.

"The next troubling bit," Earl went on, "is the fertilizer issue. As you well 
know, ANFO is a low-grade explosive. It's good for shoving big heaps of earth 
aside when you put it in a series of holes in the ground, but to set it out in 
the open and expect it to shatter a structure meters and meters away with 
nothing but air between? No," he said simply. "Those vertical steel supports 
were sheared off by a high-level explosion, like Semtex."

"That's why the news reports kept upping the amount of fertilizer that was in 
the van," Henry said immediately. "It started out as a one-thousand-pound bomb. 
Then fifteen hundred, then twenty-five. I think they've levelled off at five 
thousand pounds now."

"And that provokes another major issue. The five thousand pounds had to be in a 
number of smaller containers. It wasn't two and a half tons poured into the van 
like so much oatmeal. Say our master bomber built compartments holding five 
hundred pounds each, which would be a feat in itself. It's not that bloody
easy to get ten large quantities of fertilizer to detonate simultaneously. Last 
month I read a theory that the ANFO was in a hundred forty 5-gallon buckets. 
No. It's virtually impossible to get good simultaneous detonation on a hundred 
charges, without top-quality commercial detcord or other high-level detonators
that are harder to get than high-level explosives themselves."

"Could you...improvise a bomb that would shear off the steel girders?" Cindy 
asked.

"Perhaps. And again, this is where it would indicate that a 'master bomber' had 
engineered this explosion. There are ingredients which can be added to the 
basic ANFO mixture to increase its shock, but I don't know if I could create 
such a result as we saw in Oklahoma. Not with ANFO as the base. If Mr. McVeigh
accomplished such a feat, he is a genius with explosives."

https://www.amazon.com/Unintended-Consequences-John-Ross/dp/1888118040

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 4, 2017 at 11:27 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> I recall the general tapped to research the okc bombing stating in his
> report that a truck bomb on the street could never generate the pressure
> required to pulverize the concrete in the columns supporting the building
> in the parking area.

I have a personal theory about that. 
The obvious answer is that somehow McVeigh, or whoever built that bomb for him, 
was the world's greatest expert in improvised explosives. 

The more practical answer is that the building was put up by government 
contractors who cheated like crazy on the concrete composition and 
reinforcements, allowing the federal building to fall down when smaller and 
supposedly weaker structures on the other side of the street, much closer to 
the bomb, were more lightly damaged. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

This guy was awfully shrewd about how he did what he did. A friend's nephew
is an army sniper and in discussing this said everything about it was
textbook. Elevated position and all that. He apparently even fired from
well back in the room to conceal the flash.

Any reasonably intelligent person could educate themselves about the
subject, but gosh what a research project. Someone would have to be rather
smart and organized to amass all that stuff, get the plan together and
execute it (or, more properly, them) without tipping anyone off. Most
people that upset about something will tip their hand at some point or
other, after death for instance. This guy seems to have prepared very well,
was committed enough to give his life in order to do something with
tremendous potential impact,  and yet left no obvious posthumous indication
whatsoever regarding his motive. Strange. But then so is shooting 500
people.

I think it is a bit too easy to find evidence of conspiracies, frankly.
Certainly using video evidence from the internet isnt going to suffice. A
proper investigation is needed.

I recall the general tapped to research the okc bombing stating in his
report that a truck bomb on the street could never generate the pressure
required to pulverize the concrete in the columns supporting the building
in the parking area. He was a demolitions expert. That type of thing seems
credible as an inconsistency in a narrative. This guy just seems like a
kooky loner who happened to be smart and have access to the right tools for
his plan of attack.

On Oct 4, 2017 6:37 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
wrote:

Yes.  Nothing  wrong with the Las Vegas conversation, but it’s drifting off
into areas that are off limits.


> On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:57 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On October 4, 2017 at 7:56 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> OK, guys.  The conversation is moving into forbidden topics.  Please
refrain.  I’ll not ask again or remind.
>
> You mean the Clinton and Kennedy stuff, right?
>
> Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

As it turns out I am currently watching a show on the history channel 
about it.  Same people who do hunting hitler.



On 10/4/2017 9:45 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Little news report yesterday said that Prez Trump just unsealed the JFK
file, after 54 years Perhaps, we will finally get some straight facts.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


IMO, JFK was a suicide and trick camerawork deceived us.  ;-)

LarryT

On 10/03/2017 12:34 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:


Conspiracy theories.
Just like "who killed President Kennedy".

RB


On 03/10/2017 11:12 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:


There is a lot about this story that makes no sense. I would not be
surprised if this guy was setup to take the fall. After all as far as I
have heard they never actually saw him kill himself.  What is even more
strange is if you googled his name there were stories about him shooting up
vegas that were dated the day before all this happened. Also, his Facebook
account was deleted right after this happened. Dead men can't delete their
account so who did?

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes <

mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Kaleb wrote:


Prayers for those wounded or killed in Vegas.


It is sad, for sure.
What is more sad is the obvious grab since this is NOT the work of a
64-year old man from Mesquite.
Someone else, someplace else did this.  The numbers alone tell the
tale of something other than an old guy with guns.
Are we smart or stupid?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Little news report yesterday said that Prez Trump just unsealed the JFK
file, after 54 years Perhaps, we will finally get some straight facts.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> IMO, JFK was a suicide and trick camerawork deceived us.  ;-)
>
> LarryT
>
> On 10/03/2017 12:34 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Conspiracy theories.
>> Just like "who killed President Kennedy".
>>
>> RB
>>
>>
>> On 03/10/2017 11:12 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>
>>> There is a lot about this story that makes no sense. I would not be
>>> surprised if this guy was setup to take the fall. After all as far as I
>>> have heard they never actually saw him kill himself.  What is even more
>>> strange is if you googled his name there were stories about him shooting up
>>> vegas that were dated the day before all this happened. Also, his Facebook
>>> account was deleted right after this happened. Dead men can't delete their
>>> account so who did?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

 Kaleb wrote:

> Prayers for those wounded or killed in Vegas.
>
 It is sad, for sure.
 What is more sad is the obvious grab since this is NOT the work of a
 64-year old man from Mesquite.
 Someone else, someplace else did this.  The numbers alone tell the
 tale of something other than an old guy with guns.
 Are we smart or stupid?
 tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Are they talking about crazy Hillary or the dems?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:37 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Yes.  Nothing  wrong with the Las Vegas conversation, but it’s drifting off 
> into areas that are off limits.
> 
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:57 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On October 4, 2017 at 7:56 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> OK, guys.  The conversation is moving into forbidden topics.  Please 
>>> refrain.  I’ll not ask again or remind.
>> 
>> You mean the Clinton and Kennedy stuff, right?
>> 
>> Mitch.
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Yes.  Nothing  wrong with the Las Vegas conversation, but it’s drifting off 
into areas that are off limits.


> On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:57 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On October 4, 2017 at 7:56 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> OK, guys.  The conversation is moving into forbidden topics.  Please 
>> refrain.  I’ll not ask again or remind.
> 
> You mean the Clinton and Kennedy stuff, right?
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 4, 2017 at 7:56 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> OK, guys.  The conversation is moving into forbidden topics.  Please refrain. 
>  I’ll not ask again or remind.

You mean the Clinton and Kennedy stuff, right?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

OK, guys.  The conversation is moving into forbidden topics.  Please refrain.  
I’ll not ask again or remind.

List Mom



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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I never understood the attraction of the mag dump, not even when .223/5.56 ammo 
was $0.10 each, that was still $3 to see how fast you can spray 30 rounds. And 
today? No thanks. 
Dollars per minute just didn't figure into my recreational budget, then or now. 
I may have dumped my Glenfield Model 60 once or twice when I was a teen, but 
that would have been $0.34 for 17 rounds at the time. I also might not have 
ever done it, I just can't remember. 

What I did mostly was walk around in the woods shooting at twigs that were 
narrower than the bullets, and at the occasional Pabst Blue Ribbon can left 
behind by the prior owner of the land. A couple of the older cans I found were 
the kind that you had to punch holes in to drink from, some were steel with 
pull tabs, and a huge pile of the latest ones by the old sugar bush (syrup 
refining shed) were made of aluminum, but it seems that every can of beer that 
old man Wells ever drank was Pabst. Just like whatever yahoo throws beer cans 
in the road in front of my house now, and only drinks Bud Light. I find one or 
two a week when I'm walking my dog, and they're always Bud Light. 

Mitch. 

> On October 4, 2017 at 7:07 PM Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks Mitch, Ya know, I've been a gun enthusiast for most of my 60+ 
> years and have never noticed one of those while browsing the gun 
> websites.Of course I look mostly at the reloading pages of their 
> stuff.  And I have no interest in abusing my guns like one of those 
> devices must do.  but that's me, a law abiding gun owner and NRA Life 
> member.

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

Thanks Mitch, Ya know, I've been a gun enthusiast for most of my 60+ 
years and have never noticed one of those while browsing the gun 
websites.    Of course I look mostly at the reloading pages of their 
stuff.  And I have no interest in abusing my guns like one of those 
devices must do.  but that's me, a law abiding gun owner and NRA Life 
member.


One thing I've noticed is some comments seem to come from very liberal 
members quoting very questionable comments from very liberal sources.


I used to be suspicious of the Fake News label but I have come to 
believe it completely.  I guess I was naive to think someone who went to 
college to be a journalist would have some integrity when it comes to 
reporting fraudulent reports merely to hurt a disliked politician, but I 
am seeing it all the time. Thankfully many are getting called on it.

(my comments only make sense if you are following this thread) ;-)

LarryT

On 10/04/2017 6:13 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

On October 4, 2017 at 5:54 PM Larry Turner via Mercedes  
wrote:
  

They reported it is a "stock bump" which I have never heard of, but at
this stage we're probably hearing a lot of guessing.

That's Bump Stock, it lets the barreled action move back in the stock under 
recoil, moving the trigger away from your finger, then it bounces back forward 
and the trigger bumps your finger. Not the most reliable way to do it, and not 
particularly good for maintaining accuracy and actually hitting your target, 
but if you target is several hundred feet wide I guess accuracy isn't that 
important if you're willing to rack up 400 wounds for every 50 kills.

The staff at The Truth About Guns spent a lot of time explaining and 
demonstrating it for See BS News, so of course CBS tossed all the footage of 
the experts shooting at the range and used a bunch of youtube clips of idiots 
shooting with bump stocks instead.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/daniel-zimmerman/raw-video-cbs-new-interview-ttag-underground-tactical/
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 4, 2017 at 5:54 PM Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
> They reported it is a "stock bump" which I have never heard of, but at 
> this stage we're probably hearing a lot of guessing.

That's Bump Stock, it lets the barreled action move back in the stock under 
recoil, moving the trigger away from your finger, then it bounces back forward 
and the trigger bumps your finger. Not the most reliable way to do it, and not 
particularly good for maintaining accuracy and actually hitting your target, 
but if you target is several hundred feet wide I guess accuracy isn't that 
important if you're willing to rack up 400 wounds for every 50 kills. 

The staff at The Truth About Guns spent a lot of time explaining and 
demonstrating it for See BS News, so of course CBS tossed all the footage of 
the experts shooting at the range and used a bunch of youtube clips of idiots 
shooting with bump stocks instead. 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/daniel-zimmerman/raw-video-cbs-new-interview-ttag-underground-tactical/
Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Johnson had it done via the CIA so they could advance the agenda of the 
military industrial complex. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The one sure thing about the JFK thing is that L.H. Oswald was a patsy.  It 
> was likely done by the mob or by the insiders (one or many of various 3 
> letter gummit organizations), possibly at the direction of the veep or his 
> handlers.
> 
>> Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>> October 4, 2017 at 4:40 PM
>> IMO, JFK was a suicide and trick camerawork deceived us.  ;-)
>> 
>> LarryT
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

I heard he attacked the country western concert because he thought those 
attending would be right wing / Republicans.  That may have been nothing 
but conjecture though -

LarryT

On 10/03/2017 11:20 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Actually, Two gun store owners ID'd him and a total of 5 weapons between
them, all purchased legally with full federal required background check.

He was however found to be registered to vote as a Democrat. which really
doesn't fit the media narrative about "right wing conservative gun
owners"... Hmmm... confusing times we live in, yes?

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


False.  One gun store owner already IDd him.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


So videos and witness show muzzle flash low in the building while the
shooting was happening, from about the 4th floor. Nothing is adding up.
Everybody that knows this guy all say he did not own all these guns.

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 3, 2017, at 8:16 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  wrote:


Early reports (always suspect) said both 5.56mm and 7.62mm but did not

say

if it was the US (.308) version or the Russian AR-47 version of 7.62.

We

will probably not get to know but the ballistic analysis should be
interesting.


-Original Message-
From: Mountain Man via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:37 PM

Kaleb wrote:

There is a lot about this story that makes no sense.

What calibre bullets are being removed from dead victims?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

I saw a light flashing on what I would guess is the 10th fl - it was 
flashing in the background of the new media broadcast.  Maybe that was 
what confused some?

LarryT

On 10/03/2017 9:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

So videos and witness show muzzle flash low in the building while the shooting 
was happening, from about the 4th floor. Nothing is adding up. Everybody that 
knows this guy all say he did not own all these guns.

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 3, 2017, at 8:16 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  wrote:

Short analysis:
Shooter was on 32 floor, shooting from inside a room, so sound would be
attenuated due to both the height and enclosure, at ground level. 32 floors
at [nominal] 10' per floor = 320 ft altitude [roughly length of a football
field].

Both AR15 [.223 / 5.56 NATO] and the AK-47 [7.62x39] at the range of the
shooter from the crowd possess deadly energy. Effective range of both
weapons for military use is a nominal 200 yds... or 600 ft.. plus or minus.
for use of iron sights... It is not likely the killer bothered to sight,
but simply did what is normally called "spray and pray" in the military...
Based on current reports of the number of weapons found in the room, a
likely speculation could be that he did not bother to reload, but simply
picked up another fully loaded rifle and continued shooting. It seems
likely he was using 100 round drum magazines, based on the rate of fire,
and the duration.

Like someone else here, I initially identified the shots as coming from AK
47 7.62x39, which has a very distinct sound... once you have been down
range of one, that you don't forget. Not knowing which weapons he actually
used, it could have been... with later bursts being from a .223 / 5.56
AR-15.
I've fired literally thousands of rounds of both over the past decades, and
in retrospect, now knowing the elevation and position of the shooter...
can't truly make an accurate call on what was being fired.

My prayers go out for those who were killed, and to those who were injured,
and all their friends and families.

More details will come out as the investigation develops.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Early reports (always suspect) said both 5.56mm and 7.62mm but did not say
if it was the US (.308) version or the Russian AR-47 version of 7.62. We
will probably not get to know but the ballistic analysis should be
interesting.


-Original Message-
From: Mountain Man via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:37 PM

Kaleb wrote:

There is a lot about this story that makes no sense.

What calibre bullets are being removed from dead victims?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Larry Turner via Mercedes 
October 4, 2017 at 4:59 PM
that sounds similar to what would happen if Bill Clinton is ever 
shot.  unless it's Hillary...

LarryT

The only reason billy bob is still around is that he is a "useful idiot" 
for fundraising (to keep pillory supplied).


Otherwise, he would not have made it out of arkieland.
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

US standard issue AR's are 5.56 / .223.  there are some 308's available.
Larry

On 10/03/2017 8:43 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:

Early reports (always suspect) said both 5.56mm and 7.62mm but did not say if 
it was the US (.308) version or the Russian AR-47 version of 7.62. We will 
probably not get to know but the ballistic analysis should be interesting.


-Original Message-
From: Mountain Man via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:37 PM

Kaleb wrote:

There is a lot about this story that makes no sense.

What calibre bullets are being removed from dead victims?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

that sounds similar to what would happen if Bill Clinton is ever shot.  
unless it's Hillary...

LarryT

On 10/03/2017 7:09 PM, rogerhga--- via Mercedes wrote:

Randy,
Kennedy was killed by a jealous husband. The police decided there were just too 
many suspects so they used Oswald as a patsy. It's a strange world.
Best Wishes,
Roger
Roger Hale
Dinnerware Classics, Inc.
Monroe, Ga.
770-267-0850
www.dinnerwareclassics.com


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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

The one sure thing about the JFK thing is that L.H. Oswald was a patsy.  
It was likely done by the mob or by the insiders (one or many of various 
3 letter gummit organizations), possibly at the direction of the veep or 
his handlers.



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
October 4, 2017 at 4:40 PM
IMO, JFK was a suicide and trick camerawork deceived us.  ;-)

LarryT



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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

You wrote:  "The auto-fire cyclic rate I heard in the recordings sounded 
more like an AK than M-16.  Of course a DIY full-auto conversion could 
have any fire rate."


I think you were closer to correct in your 2nd sentence.  But I thought 
the action sounded like an AK also.
To me, it sounded like one of those "crank triggers" available that 
rotates inside the trigger guard as the hand spins it. Listen to the 
shots and you'll hear the rate of fire speed up then slow down which I 
think is his starting to spin the mechanism quickly then slowing as the 
hand gets tired.


They reported it is a "stock bump" which I have never heard of, but at 
this stage we're probably hearing a lot of guessing.


LarryT

On 10/03/2017 4:27 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:

I can't help but recall the beginning of Matt Bracken's "Enemies Foreign and 
Domestic" when I read/hear about this massacre.  For those not familiar, that event 
was the super bowl and the alleged perp was a patsy; but the main theme  of the trilogy 
was the hard left turn the country took after that event.
I wish I could have more faith in the news media.  The current story does not 
add up and I doubt we will ever get the true story.
The auto-fire cyclic rate I heard in the recordings sounded more like an AK 
than M-16.  Of course a DIY full-auto conversion could have any fire rate.
Scott


-Original Message-
From:  Mountain Man via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 11:39 AM

Kaleb wrote:  Prayers for those wounded or killed in Vegas.

It is sad, for sure.
What is more sad is the obvious grab since this is NOT the work of a 64-year
old man from Mesquite.
Someone else, someplace else did this.  The numbers alone tell the tale of
something other than an old guy with guns.
Are we smart or stupid?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Has anyone ever suggested that Jacquie did it?

RB

On 04/10/2017 4:40 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:

IMO, JFK was a suicide and trick camerawork deceived us.  ;-)

LarryT

On 10/03/2017 12:34 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:

Conspiracy theories.
Just like "who killed President Kennedy".

RB


On 03/10/2017 11:12 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
There is a lot about this story that makes no sense. I would not be 
surprised if this guy was setup to take the fall. After all as far 
as I have heard they never actually saw him kill himself.  What is 
even more strange is if you googled his name there were stories 
about him shooting up vegas that were dated the day before all this 
happened. Also, his Facebook account was deleted right after this 
happened. Dead men can't delete their account so who did?


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes 
 wrote:


Kaleb wrote:

Prayers for those wounded or killed in Vegas.

It is sad, for sure.
What is more sad is the obvious grab since this is NOT the work of a
64-year old man from Mesquite.
Someone else, someplace else did this.  The numbers alone tell the
tale of something other than an old guy with guns.
Are we smart or stupid?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Then one would think he would try to take a few of the mobsters with him 
rather than a bunch of innocents who had nothing to do with his problems.
But of course, that is logical and I doubt he was being logical given 
what he did.


RB


On 04/10/2017 4:23 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

Maybe he owed the mob big bucks from his gambling . . . sent the money to
girl friend in the Philippines instead of paying up.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Yeah, but hos profile just does not compute for this sort of crime that
involves suicide at the end.  What are your thoughts?  Random act?  Forgot
to take his meds?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


One does not need to have a brain tumor in order to be crazy.

RB


On 04/10/2017 3:58 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:


No way this sort of evildoer would want to commit suicide unless he had
pure hatred for happy people plus an inoperable brain tumor.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

He did have. It was mysteriously removed soon after the shooting.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


"Paddock did not have a Facebook account, which makes him unusual,


compared


to other 21st century mass shooters and terrorists."

Yet another reason to avoid Fakebook?


-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <


mercedes@okiebenz.com>


wrote:

http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/shooter-in-bloody-vegas-gun-

massacre-was-longtime-federal-agent/



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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

IMO, JFK was a suicide and trick camerawork deceived us.  ;-)

LarryT

On 10/03/2017 12:34 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:

Conspiracy theories.
Just like "who killed President Kennedy".

RB


On 03/10/2017 11:12 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
There is a lot about this story that makes no sense. I would not be 
surprised if this guy was setup to take the fall. After all as far as 
I have heard they never actually saw him kill himself.  What is even 
more strange is if you googled his name there were stories about him 
shooting up vegas that were dated the day before all this happened. 
Also, his Facebook account was deleted right after this happened. 
Dead men can't delete their account so who did?


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes 
 wrote:


Kaleb wrote:

Prayers for those wounded or killed in Vegas.

It is sad, for sure.
What is more sad is the obvious grab since this is NOT the work of a
64-year old man from Mesquite.
Someone else, someplace else did this.  The numbers alone tell the
tale of something other than an old guy with guns.
Are we smart or stupid?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Maybe he owed the mob big bucks from his gambling . . . sent the money to
girl friend in the Philippines instead of paying up.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yeah, but hos profile just does not compute for this sort of crime that
> involves suicide at the end.  What are your thoughts?  Random act?  Forgot
> to take his meds?
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > One does not need to have a brain tumor in order to be crazy.
> >
> > RB
> >
> >
> > On 04/10/2017 3:58 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> No way this sort of evildoer would want to commit suicide unless he had
> >> pure hatred for happy people plus an inoperable brain tumor.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> He did have. It was mysteriously removed soon after the shooting.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> 
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  "Paddock did not have a Facebook account, which makes him unusual,
> 
> >>> compared
> >>>
>  to other 21st century mass shooters and terrorists."
> 
>  Yet another reason to avoid Fakebook?
> 
> 
>  -
>  Max
>  Charleston SC
> 
>  On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> 
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >>>
>  wrote:
> 
>  http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/shooter-in-bloody-vegas-gun-
> > massacre-was-longtime-federal-agent/
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> >>> ___
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >>>
> >>>
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-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Capital crime in a death sentence state... why wait?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yeah, but hos profile just does not compute for this sort of crime that
> involves suicide at the end.  What are your thoughts?  Random act?  Forgot
> to take his meds?
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > One does not need to have a brain tumor in order to be crazy.
> >
> > RB
> >
> >
> > On 04/10/2017 3:58 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> No way this sort of evildoer would want to commit suicide unless he had
> >> pure hatred for happy people plus an inoperable brain tumor.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> He did have. It was mysteriously removed soon after the shooting.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> 
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  "Paddock did not have a Facebook account, which makes him unusual,
> 
> >>> compared
> >>>
>  to other 21st century mass shooters and terrorists."
> 
>  Yet another reason to avoid Fakebook?
> 
> 
>  -
>  Max
>  Charleston SC
> 
>  On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> 
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >>>
>  wrote:
> 
>  http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/shooter-in-bloody-vegas-gun-
> > massacre-was-longtime-federal-agent/
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
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> 
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> >>>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

If that does not qualify as crazy, what would?

RB

On 04/10/2017 4:04 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Mohamadian jihadi only get the jenna and get the 72 virgins if they die
while killing the infidel ie. suicide bombers ... or other forms of
"shehad" attacks.
Which, lends some weight to the rumor the killer was associated in some way
to ISIS or some other violent Mohamadian group...
Perhaps...

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


One does not need to have a brain tumor in order to be crazy.

RB





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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Mohamadian jihadi only get the jenna and get the 72 virgins if they die
while killing the infidel ie. suicide bombers ... or other forms of
"shehad" attacks.
Which, lends some weight to the rumor the killer was associated in some way
to ISIS or some other violent Mohamadian group...
Perhaps...

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> One does not need to have a brain tumor in order to be crazy.
>
> RB
>
>
> On 04/10/2017 3:58 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> No way this sort of evildoer would want to commit suicide unless he had
>> pure hatred for happy people plus an inoperable brain tumor.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> He did have. It was mysteriously removed soon after the shooting.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <

>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
 "Paddock did not have a Facebook account, which makes him unusual,

>>> compared
>>>
 to other 21st century mass shooters and terrorists."

 Yet another reason to avoid Fakebook?


 -
 Max
 Charleston SC

 On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <

>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>
 wrote:

 http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/shooter-in-bloody-vegas-gun-
> massacre-was-longtime-federal-agent/
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Yeah, but hos profile just does not compute for this sort of crime that
involves suicide at the end.  What are your thoughts?  Random act?  Forgot
to take his meds?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 4:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> One does not need to have a brain tumor in order to be crazy.
>
> RB
>
>
> On 04/10/2017 3:58 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> No way this sort of evildoer would want to commit suicide unless he had
>> pure hatred for happy people plus an inoperable brain tumor.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> He did have. It was mysteriously removed soon after the shooting.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <

>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
 "Paddock did not have a Facebook account, which makes him unusual,

>>> compared
>>>
 to other 21st century mass shooters and terrorists."

 Yet another reason to avoid Fakebook?


 -
 Max
 Charleston SC

 On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <

>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>
 wrote:

 http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/shooter-in-bloody-vegas-gun-
> massacre-was-longtime-federal-agent/
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

One does not need to have a brain tumor in order to be crazy.

RB

On 04/10/2017 3:58 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

No way this sort of evildoer would want to commit suicide unless he had
pure hatred for happy people plus an inoperable brain tumor.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


He did have. It was mysteriously removed soon after the shooting.

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <

mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

"Paddock did not have a Facebook account, which makes him unusual,

compared

to other 21st century mass shooters and terrorists."

Yet another reason to avoid Fakebook?


-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <

mercedes@okiebenz.com>

wrote:


http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/shooter-in-bloody-vegas-gun-
massacre-was-longtime-federal-agent/




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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

No way this sort of evildoer would want to commit suicide unless he had
pure hatred for happy people plus an inoperable brain tumor.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> He did have. It was mysteriously removed soon after the shooting.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > "Paddock did not have a Facebook account, which makes him unusual,
> compared
> > to other 21st century mass shooters and terrorists."
> >
> > Yet another reason to avoid Fakebook?
> >
> >
> > -
> > Max
> > Charleston SC
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/shooter-in-bloody-vegas-gun-
> >> massacre-was-longtime-federal-agent/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

He did have. It was mysteriously removed soon after the shooting. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> "Paddock did not have a Facebook account, which makes him unusual, compared
> to other 21st century mass shooters and terrorists."
> 
> Yet another reason to avoid Fakebook?
> 
> 
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/shooter-in-bloody-vegas-gun-
>> massacre-was-longtime-federal-agent/
>> 
>> 
>> 
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

No it's way too far away and too concentrated to me camera flash. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:36 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On October 4, 2017 at 11:49 AM "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Looking at the video again, for a split second you can see flashing start in 
>> that lower window right before you hear the shots. The flashing is seen a 
>> 2nd time also. The first time is pretty close to the start of the video. 
> 
> Like somebody taking pictures of the carnage with their camera flash turned 
> on?
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

"Paddock did not have a Facebook account, which makes him unusual, compared
to other 21st century mass shooters and terrorists."

Yet another reason to avoid Fakebook?


-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

>
> http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/shooter-in-bloody-vegas-gun-
> massacre-was-longtime-federal-agent/
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 4, 2017 at 11:49 AM "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Looking at the video again, for a split second you can see flashing start in 
> that lower window right before you hear the shots. The flashing is seen a 2nd 
> time also. The first time is pretty close to the start of the video. 

Like somebody taking pictures of the carnage with their camera flash turned on?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Perhaps you may have already seen this, perhaps not.. It tells a few more
bits of the story and has a photo of the self deceased shooter laying among
multiple weapons and shell casings.

Since there are no broken windows at level 4 of the hotel.. and no other
way to get outside.. I think muzzle flash at 4th floor from a "second
shooter" is unlikely.

Slowly, more details will be released... The shooter had multiple cameras
in the room and in the hall leading to the room.. so he "recorded his
crime" ... Not known or released if he broadcast his act... but it would be
a very IS-IS type move to have done so.. [ISIS= Islamic Sex Involving Sheep]

Please draw your own conclusions from the details or lack thereof in this
link.
IMHO, working as a postman 40 yrs ago does not make you a "long time
federal agent" as the headline states Still many unanswered questions
as to the source of the guys funds that supported his gambling
habit/addiction, and other large expenditures..

http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/shooter-in-bloody-vegas-gun-massacre-was-longtime-federal-agent/


On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 8:51 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Now I am just looking at it on my phone. I think somebody needs to be
> looking at it on something that can slow it way down.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin 
> wrote:
> >
> > Looking at the video again, for a split second you can see flashing
> start in that lower window right before you hear the shots. The flashing is
> seen a 2nd time also. The first time is pretty close to the start of the
> video.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:37 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> The only flashing I see in the video, which is in a lower floor and
> toward
> >> the center of the building, flashes continuously.  The muzzle flashes
> >> should start and end before the sound reaches the camera, the flashing
> that
> >> I see is happening long after the sound has stopped.  I also see that
> >> flashing at another point not closely associated in time with any
> sounds of
> >> gunfire.
> >>
> >> My understanding is that the shooter had a corner room, and he shot from
> >> two different windows which gave him to different fields of fire (on
> >> different faces of the building) and I don't think a room in the middle
> >> part of the hotel would have that feature.
> >>
> >> -
> >> Max
> >> Charleston SC
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting-
> >>> concert-video-shots-von.cnn/video/playlists/las-vegas-strip-shooting/
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>  Facebook is your news source?  What's wrong with going to CNN's
> website?
> 
>  Facebook sez: "You must log in to continue".   No thanks!  I value my
>  privacy.
> 
>  -
>  Max
>  Charleston SC
> 
>  On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>  mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > You can very clearly see muzzle flash from a much lower floor and
> not on
> > the end where the guy supposedly did the shooting
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10157393701071509/
> >
> >
>  ___
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> 
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> 
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>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
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> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
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> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Now I am just looking at it on my phone. I think somebody needs to be looking 
at it on something that can slow it way down. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin  wrote:
> 
> Looking at the video again, for a split second you can see flashing start in 
> that lower window right before you hear the shots. The flashing is seen a 2nd 
> time also. The first time is pretty close to the start of the video. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:37 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> The only flashing I see in the video, which is in a lower floor and toward
>> the center of the building, flashes continuously.  The muzzle flashes
>> should start and end before the sound reaches the camera, the flashing that
>> I see is happening long after the sound has stopped.  I also see that
>> flashing at another point not closely associated in time with any sounds of
>> gunfire.
>> 
>> My understanding is that the shooter had a corner room, and he shot from
>> two different windows which gave him to different fields of fire (on
>> different faces of the building) and I don't think a room in the middle
>> part of the hotel would have that feature.
>> 
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting-
>>> concert-video-shots-von.cnn/video/playlists/las-vegas-strip-shooting/
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 Facebook is your news source?  What's wrong with going to CNN's website?
 
 Facebook sez: "You must log in to continue".   No thanks!  I value my
 privacy.
 
 -
 Max
 Charleston SC
 
 On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> You can very clearly see muzzle flash from a much lower floor and not on
> the end where the guy supposedly did the shooting
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10157393701071509/
> 
> 
 ___
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> ___
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>>> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Looking at the video again, for a split second you can see flashing start in 
that lower window right before you hear the shots. The flashing is seen a 2nd 
time also. The first time is pretty close to the start of the video. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:37 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The only flashing I see in the video, which is in a lower floor and toward
> the center of the building, flashes continuously.  The muzzle flashes
> should start and end before the sound reaches the camera, the flashing that
> I see is happening long after the sound has stopped.  I also see that
> flashing at another point not closely associated in time with any sounds of
> gunfire.
> 
> My understanding is that the shooter had a corner room, and he shot from
> two different windows which gave him to different fields of fire (on
> different faces of the building) and I don't think a room in the middle
> part of the hotel would have that feature.
> 
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting-
>> concert-video-shots-von.cnn/video/playlists/las-vegas-strip-shooting/
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Facebook is your news source?  What's wrong with going to CNN's website?
>>> 
>>> Facebook sez: "You must log in to continue".   No thanks!  I value my
>>> privacy.
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Max
>>> Charleston SC
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 You can very clearly see muzzle flash from a much lower floor and not on
 the end where the guy supposedly did the shooting
 
 https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10157393701071509/
 
 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Kaleb wrote:
> If the guy did it like they say he did is one thing, but there is still a 
> whole lot of fishy stuff going on here.

Does high rate continuous shooting tend to melt the barrel?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

If the guy did it like they say he did is one thing, but there is still a whole 
lot of fishy stuff going on here. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:41 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Considering where the Mandalay Bay is located and the excessive number of 
> lights and displays on the Strip, it’s easy to conclude that the flashes 
> elsewhere on the building are nothing more than reflections from lights on 
> the Strip.  Especially if they’re flashing at a constant/consistent rate.
> 
> I will say that the frequency of the shots sure make it sound like an 
> automatic weapon.  It sounds way too fast for a bump stop firing rate.
> 
> You may now remove your tinfoil hat.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> The only flashing I see in the video, which is in a lower floor and toward
>> the center of the building, flashes continuously.  The muzzle flashes
>> should start and end before the sound reaches the camera, the flashing that
>> I see is happening long after the sound has stopped.  I also see that
>> flashing at another point not closely associated in time with any sounds of
>> gunfire.
>> 
>> My understanding is that the shooter had a corner room, and he shot from
>> two different windows which gave him to different fields of fire (on
>> different faces of the building) and I don't think a room in the middle
>> part of the hotel would have that feature.
>> 
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting-
>>> concert-video-shots-von.cnn/video/playlists/las-vegas-strip-shooting/
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 Facebook is your news source?  What's wrong with going to CNN's website?
 
 Facebook sez: "You must log in to continue".   No thanks!  I value my
 privacy.
 
 -
 Max
 Charleston SC
 
 On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> You can very clearly see muzzle flash from a much lower floor and not on
> the end where the guy supposedly did the shooting
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10157393701071509/
> 
> 
 ___
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Considering where the Mandalay Bay is located and the excessive number of 
lights and displays on the Strip, it’s easy to conclude that the flashes 
elsewhere on the building are nothing more than reflections from lights on the 
Strip.  Especially if they’re flashing at a constant/consistent rate.

I will say that the frequency of the shots sure make it sound like an automatic 
weapon.  It sounds way too fast for a bump stop firing rate.

You may now remove your tinfoil hat.

-D


> On Oct 4, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The only flashing I see in the video, which is in a lower floor and toward
> the center of the building, flashes continuously.  The muzzle flashes
> should start and end before the sound reaches the camera, the flashing that
> I see is happening long after the sound has stopped.  I also see that
> flashing at another point not closely associated in time with any sounds of
> gunfire.
> 
> My understanding is that the shooter had a corner room, and he shot from
> two different windows which gave him to different fields of fire (on
> different faces of the building) and I don't think a room in the middle
> part of the hotel would have that feature.
> 
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting-
>> concert-video-shots-von.cnn/video/playlists/las-vegas-strip-shooting/
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Facebook is your news source?  What's wrong with going to CNN's website?
>>> 
>>> Facebook sez: "You must log in to continue".   No thanks!  I value my
>>> privacy.
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Max
>>> Charleston SC
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 You can very clearly see muzzle flash from a much lower floor and not on
 the end where the guy supposedly did the shooting
 
 https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10157393701071509/
 
 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
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>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

The only flashing I see in the video, which is in a lower floor and toward
the center of the building, flashes continuously.  The muzzle flashes
should start and end before the sound reaches the camera, the flashing that
I see is happening long after the sound has stopped.  I also see that
flashing at another point not closely associated in time with any sounds of
gunfire.

My understanding is that the shooter had a corner room, and he shot from
two different windows which gave him to different fields of fire (on
different faces of the building) and I don't think a room in the middle
part of the hotel would have that feature.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting-
> concert-video-shots-von.cnn/video/playlists/las-vegas-strip-shooting/
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Facebook is your news source?  What's wrong with going to CNN's website?
> >
> > Facebook sez: "You must log in to continue".   No thanks!  I value my
> > privacy.
> >
> > -
> > Max
> > Charleston SC
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You can very clearly see muzzle flash from a much lower floor and not on
> >> the end where the guy supposedly did the shooting
> >>
> >> https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10157393701071509/
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting-concert-video-shots-von.cnn/video/playlists/las-vegas-strip-shooting/

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Facebook is your news source?  What's wrong with going to CNN's website?
> 
> Facebook sez: "You must log in to continue".   No thanks!  I value my
> privacy.
> 
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> You can very clearly see muzzle flash from a much lower floor and not on
>> the end where the guy supposedly did the shooting
>> 
>> https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10157393701071509/
>> 
>> 
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Facebook is your news source?  What's wrong with going to CNN's website?

Facebook sez: "You must log in to continue".   No thanks!  I value my
privacy.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> You can very clearly see muzzle flash from a much lower floor and not on
> the end where the guy supposedly did the shooting
>
> https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10157393701071509/
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

You can very clearly see muzzle flash from a much lower floor and not on the 
end where the guy supposedly did the shooting

https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/10157393701071509/

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin <ka...@striplin.net> wrote:
> 
> Whoever really did the shooting staged it all to set the guy up. What about 
> the shootings from the lower levels of the hotel? Who did those?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:07 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I read that it was an hour from the last shot to the time police entered the 
>> shooters hotel room.  I have to wonder what happened in that room during 
>> that period.
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G
>>> Mann via Mercedes
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 11:41 PM
>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>> Cc: G Mann <g2ma...@gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vegas
>>> 
>>> The "Why he did it" doesn't concern me nearly as much as "He did it"..
>>> 
>>> He is dead... unfortunately, 460 shootings to late. Possible connections to 
>>> ISIS,
>>> that he sent $100,000.00 to Philippines visa via his "girlfriend" and other
>>> unknowns at this point concern me to a much greater degree. The South Island
>>> of Philippines is a muslim terrorist stronghold with several very violent 
>>> groups.
>>> It's reported he traveled to Mid-East recently... Was he part of any of 
>>> that?
>>> 
>>> Inquiring minds want to know.. as they say.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Whoever really did the shooting staged it all to set the guy up. What about the 
shootings from the lower levels of the hotel? Who did those?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 12:07 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> I read that it was an hour from the last shot to the time police entered the 
> shooters hotel room.  I have to wonder what happened in that room during that 
> period.
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G
>> Mann via Mercedes
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 11:41 PM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> Cc: G Mann <g2ma...@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vegas
>> 
>> The "Why he did it" doesn't concern me nearly as much as "He did it"..
>> 
>> He is dead... unfortunately, 460 shootings to late. Possible connections to 
>> ISIS,
>> that he sent $100,000.00 to Philippines visa via his "girlfriend" and other
>> unknowns at this point concern me to a much greater degree. The South Island
>> of Philippines is a muslim terrorist stronghold with several very violent 
>> groups.
>> It's reported he traveled to Mid-East recently... Was he part of any of that?
>> 
>> Inquiring minds want to know.. as they say.
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

I read that it was an hour from the last shot to the time police entered the 
shooters hotel room.  I have to wonder what happened in that room during that 
period.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G
> Mann via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 11:41 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: G Mann <g2ma...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Vegas
> 
> The "Why he did it" doesn't concern me nearly as much as "He did it"..
> 
> He is dead... unfortunately, 460 shootings to late. Possible connections to 
> ISIS,
> that he sent $100,000.00 to Philippines visa via his "girlfriend" and other
> unknowns at this point concern me to a much greater degree. The South Island
> of Philippines is a muslim terrorist stronghold with several very violent 
> groups.
> It's reported he traveled to Mid-East recently... Was he part of any of that?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know.. as they say.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[G Mann via Mercedes]

The "Why he did it" doesn't concern me nearly as much as "He did it"..

He is dead... unfortunately, 460 shootings to late. Possible connections to
ISIS, that he sent $100,000.00 to Philippines visa via his "girlfriend" and
other unknowns at this point concern me to a much greater degree. The South
Island of Philippines is a muslim terrorist stronghold with several very
violent groups. It's reported he traveled to Mid-East recently... Was he
part of any of that?

Inquiring minds want to know.. as they say.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 8:24 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I was more taking about his neighbors and family not thinking he had all
> those guns. It seemed to me it would be a liberal targeting conservative
> country folk.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:20 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > Actually, Two gun store owners ID'd him and a total of 5 weapons between
> > them, all purchased legally with full federal required background check.
> >
> > He was however found to be registered to vote as a Democrat. which really
> > doesn't fit the media narrative about "right wing conservative gun
> > owners"... Hmmm... confusing times we live in, yes?
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> False.  One gun store owner already IDd him.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> So videos and witness show muzzle flash low in the building while the
> >>> shooting was happening, from about the 4th floor. Nothing is adding up.
> >>> Everybody that knows this guy all say he did not own all these guns.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On Oct 3, 2017, at 8:16 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  Short analysis:
>  Shooter was on 32 floor, shooting from inside a room, so sound would
> be
>  attenuated due to both the height and enclosure, at ground level. 32
> >>> floors
>  at [nominal] 10' per floor = 320 ft altitude [roughly length of a
> >>> football
>  field].
> 
>  Both AR15 [.223 / 5.56 NATO] and the AK-47 [7.62x39] at the range of
> >> the
>  shooter from the crowd possess deadly energy. Effective range of both
>  weapons for military use is a nominal 200 yds... or 600 ft.. plus or
> >>> minus.
>  for use of iron sights... It is not likely the killer bothered to
> >> sight,
>  but simply did what is normally called "spray and pray" in the
> >>> military...
>  Based on current reports of the number of weapons found in the room, a
>  likely speculation could be that he did not bother to reload, but
> >> simply
>  picked up another fully loaded rifle and continued shooting. It seems
>  likely he was using 100 round drum magazines, based on the rate of
> >> fire,
>  and the duration.
> 
>  Like someone else here, I initially identified the shots as coming
> from
> >>> AK
>  47 7.62x39, which has a very distinct sound... once you have been down
>  range of one, that you don't forget. Not knowing which weapons he
> >>> actually
>  used, it could have been... with later bursts being from a .223 / 5.56
>  AR-15.
>  I've fired literally thousands of rounds of both over the past
> decades,
> >>> and
>  in retrospect, now knowing the elevation and position of the
> shooter...
>  can't truly make an accurate call on what was being fired.
> 
>  My prayers go out for those who were killed, and to those who were
> >>> injured,
>  and all their friends and families.
> 
>  More details will come out as the investigation develops.
> 
>  On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
>  mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > Early reports (always suspect) said both 5.56mm and 7.62mm but did
> not
> >>> say
> > if it was the US (.308) version or the Russian AR-47 version of 7.62.
> >> We
> > will probably not get to know but the ballistic analysis should be
> > interesting.
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Mountain Man via Mercedes
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:37 PM
> >>
> >> Kaleb wrote:
> >>> There is a lot about this story that makes no sense.
> >>
> >> What calibre bullets are being removed from dead victims?
> >> tin.man
> >>
> >> ___
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
>  To search list archives 

Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I was more taking about his neighbors and family not thinking he had all those 
guns. It seemed to me it would be a liberal targeting conservative country 
folk. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:20 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Actually, Two gun store owners ID'd him and a total of 5 weapons between
> them, all purchased legally with full federal required background check.
> 
> He was however found to be registered to vote as a Democrat. which really
> doesn't fit the media narrative about "right wing conservative gun
> owners"... Hmmm... confusing times we live in, yes?
> 
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> False.  One gun store owner already IDd him.
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> So videos and witness show muzzle flash low in the building while the
>>> shooting was happening, from about the 4th floor. Nothing is adding up.
>>> Everybody that knows this guy all say he did not own all these guns.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 3, 2017, at 8:16 PM, G Mann via Mercedes >> 
>>> wrote:
 
 Short analysis:
 Shooter was on 32 floor, shooting from inside a room, so sound would be
 attenuated due to both the height and enclosure, at ground level. 32
>>> floors
 at [nominal] 10' per floor = 320 ft altitude [roughly length of a
>>> football
 field].
 
 Both AR15 [.223 / 5.56 NATO] and the AK-47 [7.62x39] at the range of
>> the
 shooter from the crowd possess deadly energy. Effective range of both
 weapons for military use is a nominal 200 yds... or 600 ft.. plus or
>>> minus.
 for use of iron sights... It is not likely the killer bothered to
>> sight,
 but simply did what is normally called "spray and pray" in the
>>> military...
 Based on current reports of the number of weapons found in the room, a
 likely speculation could be that he did not bother to reload, but
>> simply
 picked up another fully loaded rifle and continued shooting. It seems
 likely he was using 100 round drum magazines, based on the rate of
>> fire,
 and the duration.
 
 Like someone else here, I initially identified the shots as coming from
>>> AK
 47 7.62x39, which has a very distinct sound... once you have been down
 range of one, that you don't forget. Not knowing which weapons he
>>> actually
 used, it could have been... with later bursts being from a .223 / 5.56
 AR-15.
 I've fired literally thousands of rounds of both over the past decades,
>>> and
 in retrospect, now knowing the elevation and position of the shooter...
 can't truly make an accurate call on what was being fired.
 
 My prayers go out for those who were killed, and to those who were
>>> injured,
 and all their friends and families.
 
 More details will come out as the investigation develops.
 
 On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> Early reports (always suspect) said both 5.56mm and 7.62mm but did not
>>> say
> if it was the US (.308) version or the Russian AR-47 version of 7.62.
>> We
> will probably not get to know but the ballistic analysis should be
> interesting.
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mountain Man via Mercedes
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:37 PM
>> 
>> Kaleb wrote:
>>> There is a lot about this story that makes no sense.
>> 
>> What calibre bullets are being removed from dead victims?
>> tin.man
>> 
>> ___
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives 

Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Actually, Two gun store owners ID'd him and a total of 5 weapons between
them, all purchased legally with full federal required background check.

He was however found to be registered to vote as a Democrat. which really
doesn't fit the media narrative about "right wing conservative gun
owners"... Hmmm... confusing times we live in, yes?

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 7:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> False.  One gun store owner already IDd him.
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > So videos and witness show muzzle flash low in the building while the
> > shooting was happening, from about the 4th floor. Nothing is adding up.
> > Everybody that knows this guy all say he did not own all these guns.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Oct 3, 2017, at 8:16 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Short analysis:
> > > Shooter was on 32 floor, shooting from inside a room, so sound would be
> > > attenuated due to both the height and enclosure, at ground level. 32
> > floors
> > > at [nominal] 10' per floor = 320 ft altitude [roughly length of a
> > football
> > > field].
> > >
> > > Both AR15 [.223 / 5.56 NATO] and the AK-47 [7.62x39] at the range of
> the
> > > shooter from the crowd possess deadly energy. Effective range of both
> > > weapons for military use is a nominal 200 yds... or 600 ft.. plus or
> > minus.
> > > for use of iron sights... It is not likely the killer bothered to
> sight,
> > > but simply did what is normally called "spray and pray" in the
> > military...
> > > Based on current reports of the number of weapons found in the room, a
> > > likely speculation could be that he did not bother to reload, but
> simply
> > > picked up another fully loaded rifle and continued shooting. It seems
> > > likely he was using 100 round drum magazines, based on the rate of
> fire,
> > > and the duration.
> > >
> > > Like someone else here, I initially identified the shots as coming from
> > AK
> > > 47 7.62x39, which has a very distinct sound... once you have been down
> > > range of one, that you don't forget. Not knowing which weapons he
> > actually
> > > used, it could have been... with later bursts being from a .223 / 5.56
> > > AR-15.
> > > I've fired literally thousands of rounds of both over the past decades,
> > and
> > > in retrospect, now knowing the elevation and position of the shooter...
> > > can't truly make an accurate call on what was being fired.
> > >
> > > My prayers go out for those who were killed, and to those who were
> > injured,
> > > and all their friends and families.
> > >
> > > More details will come out as the investigation develops.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Early reports (always suspect) said both 5.56mm and 7.62mm but did not
> > say
> > >> if it was the US (.308) version or the Russian AR-47 version of 7.62.
> We
> > >> will probably not get to know but the ballistic analysis should be
> > >> interesting.
> > >>
> > >>> -Original Message-
> > >>> From: Mountain Man via Mercedes
> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:37 PM
> > >>>
> > >>> Kaleb wrote:
> >  There is a lot about this story that makes no sense.
> > >>>
> > >>> What calibre bullets are being removed from dead victims?
> > >>> tin.man
> > >>>
> > >>> ___
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

False.  One gun store owner already IDd him.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> So videos and witness show muzzle flash low in the building while the
> shooting was happening, from about the 4th floor. Nothing is adding up.
> Everybody that knows this guy all say he did not own all these guns.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 3, 2017, at 8:16 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > Short analysis:
> > Shooter was on 32 floor, shooting from inside a room, so sound would be
> > attenuated due to both the height and enclosure, at ground level. 32
> floors
> > at [nominal] 10' per floor = 320 ft altitude [roughly length of a
> football
> > field].
> >
> > Both AR15 [.223 / 5.56 NATO] and the AK-47 [7.62x39] at the range of the
> > shooter from the crowd possess deadly energy. Effective range of both
> > weapons for military use is a nominal 200 yds... or 600 ft.. plus or
> minus.
> > for use of iron sights... It is not likely the killer bothered to sight,
> > but simply did what is normally called "spray and pray" in the
> military...
> > Based on current reports of the number of weapons found in the room, a
> > likely speculation could be that he did not bother to reload, but simply
> > picked up another fully loaded rifle and continued shooting. It seems
> > likely he was using 100 round drum magazines, based on the rate of fire,
> > and the duration.
> >
> > Like someone else here, I initially identified the shots as coming from
> AK
> > 47 7.62x39, which has a very distinct sound... once you have been down
> > range of one, that you don't forget. Not knowing which weapons he
> actually
> > used, it could have been... with later bursts being from a .223 / 5.56
> > AR-15.
> > I've fired literally thousands of rounds of both over the past decades,
> and
> > in retrospect, now knowing the elevation and position of the shooter...
> > can't truly make an accurate call on what was being fired.
> >
> > My prayers go out for those who were killed, and to those who were
> injured,
> > and all their friends and families.
> >
> > More details will come out as the investigation develops.
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Early reports (always suspect) said both 5.56mm and 7.62mm but did not
> say
> >> if it was the US (.308) version or the Russian AR-47 version of 7.62. We
> >> will probably not get to know but the ballistic analysis should be
> >> interesting.
> >>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Mountain Man via Mercedes
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:37 PM
> >>>
> >>> Kaleb wrote:
>  There is a lot about this story that makes no sense.
> >>>
> >>> What calibre bullets are being removed from dead victims?
> >>> tin.man
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

So videos and witness show muzzle flash low in the building while the shooting 
was happening, from about the 4th floor. Nothing is adding up. Everybody that 
knows this guy all say he did not own all these guns.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 3, 2017, at 8:16 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> Short analysis:
> Shooter was on 32 floor, shooting from inside a room, so sound would be
> attenuated due to both the height and enclosure, at ground level. 32 floors
> at [nominal] 10' per floor = 320 ft altitude [roughly length of a football
> field].
> 
> Both AR15 [.223 / 5.56 NATO] and the AK-47 [7.62x39] at the range of the
> shooter from the crowd possess deadly energy. Effective range of both
> weapons for military use is a nominal 200 yds... or 600 ft.. plus or minus.
> for use of iron sights... It is not likely the killer bothered to sight,
> but simply did what is normally called "spray and pray" in the military...
> Based on current reports of the number of weapons found in the room, a
> likely speculation could be that he did not bother to reload, but simply
> picked up another fully loaded rifle and continued shooting. It seems
> likely he was using 100 round drum magazines, based on the rate of fire,
> and the duration.
> 
> Like someone else here, I initially identified the shots as coming from AK
> 47 7.62x39, which has a very distinct sound... once you have been down
> range of one, that you don't forget. Not knowing which weapons he actually
> used, it could have been... with later bursts being from a .223 / 5.56
> AR-15.
> I've fired literally thousands of rounds of both over the past decades, and
> in retrospect, now knowing the elevation and position of the shooter...
> can't truly make an accurate call on what was being fired.
> 
> My prayers go out for those who were killed, and to those who were injured,
> and all their friends and families.
> 
> More details will come out as the investigation develops.
> 
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Early reports (always suspect) said both 5.56mm and 7.62mm but did not say
>> if it was the US (.308) version or the Russian AR-47 version of 7.62. We
>> will probably not get to know but the ballistic analysis should be
>> interesting.
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Mountain Man via Mercedes
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:37 PM
>>> 
>>> Kaleb wrote:
 There is a lot about this story that makes no sense.
>>> 
>>> What calibre bullets are being removed from dead victims?
>>> tin.man
>>> 
>>> ___
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Short analysis:
Shooter was on 32 floor, shooting from inside a room, so sound would be
attenuated due to both the height and enclosure, at ground level. 32 floors
at [nominal] 10' per floor = 320 ft altitude [roughly length of a football
field].

Both AR15 [.223 / 5.56 NATO] and the AK-47 [7.62x39] at the range of the
shooter from the crowd possess deadly energy. Effective range of both
weapons for military use is a nominal 200 yds... or 600 ft.. plus or minus.
for use of iron sights... It is not likely the killer bothered to sight,
but simply did what is normally called "spray and pray" in the military...
Based on current reports of the number of weapons found in the room, a
likely speculation could be that he did not bother to reload, but simply
picked up another fully loaded rifle and continued shooting. It seems
likely he was using 100 round drum magazines, based on the rate of fire,
and the duration.

Like someone else here, I initially identified the shots as coming from AK
47 7.62x39, which has a very distinct sound... once you have been down
range of one, that you don't forget. Not knowing which weapons he actually
used, it could have been... with later bursts being from a .223 / 5.56
AR-15.
I've fired literally thousands of rounds of both over the past decades, and
in retrospect, now knowing the elevation and position of the shooter...
can't truly make an accurate call on what was being fired.

My prayers go out for those who were killed, and to those who were injured,
and all their friends and families.

More details will come out as the investigation develops.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Early reports (always suspect) said both 5.56mm and 7.62mm but did not say
> if it was the US (.308) version or the Russian AR-47 version of 7.62. We
> will probably not get to know but the ballistic analysis should be
> interesting.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mountain Man via Mercedes
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:37 PM
> >
> > Kaleb wrote:
> > > There is a lot about this story that makes no sense.
> >
> > What calibre bullets are being removed from dead victims?
> > tin.man
> >
> > ___
>
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Early reports (always suspect) said both 5.56mm and 7.62mm but did not say if 
it was the US (.308) version or the Russian AR-47 version of 7.62. We will 
probably not get to know but the ballistic analysis should be interesting.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mountain Man via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 3:37 PM
> 
> Kaleb wrote:
> > There is a lot about this story that makes no sense.
> 
> What calibre bullets are being removed from dead victims?
> tin.man
> 
> ___


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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[rogerhga--- via Mercedes]

Randy, 
Kennedy was killed by a jealous husband. The police decided there were just too 
many suspects so they used Oswald as a patsy. It's a strange world. 
Best Wishes, 
Roger 
Roger Hale 
Dinnerware Classics, Inc. 
Monroe, Ga. 
770-267-0850 
www.dinnerwareclassics.com 


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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

No point in removing them from the dead ones anyway.

RB

On 03/10/2017 4:23 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

Tin foil hat man asks:


‎What calibre bullets are being removed >from dead victims?

You will never‎ be told the truth.

Ever.

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Tin foil hat man asks:

>‎What calibre bullets are being removed >from dead victims?

You will never‎ be told the truth. 

Ever.

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On October 3, 2017 at 4:27 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> > The auto-fire cyclic rate I heard in the recordings sounded more like an AK 
> > than M-16.  Of course a DIY full-auto conversion could have any fire rate.

I'm still waiting for confirmed details, but it appears an AR15 or two with 
bump fire stocks were involved. The cyclic rate on those is a bit faster than a 
human finger, probably on par with Jerry Miculek's finger, and noticeable 
slower than an M16. And of course, since it had nothing to do with suppressors 
or the 100 million gun owners who chose not to get involved with mass murder, 
Paul Ryan has already held a press conference to announce that he tabled a bill 
which included a relaxation of the 1934 suppressor controls. Apparently idiocy 
matter more than hearing damage and people complaining about noise from 
shooting ranges. In not-so-gun-friendly countries like England, suppressors are 
treated about the same as car mufflers, only a jerk would annoy his neighbors 
by not using them. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

I can't help but recall the beginning of Matt Bracken's "Enemies Foreign and 
Domestic" when I read/hear about this massacre.  For those not familiar, that 
event was the super bowl and the alleged perp was a patsy; but the main theme  
of the trilogy was the hard left turn the country took after that event.
I wish I could have more faith in the news media.  The current story does not 
add up and I doubt we will ever get the true story.
The auto-fire cyclic rate I heard in the recordings sounded more like an AK 
than M-16.  Of course a DIY full-auto conversion could have any fire rate.
Scott

> -Original Message-
> From:  Mountain Man via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 11:39 AM
> 
> Kaleb wrote:  Prayers for those wounded or killed in Vegas.
> 
> It is sad, for sure.
> What is more sad is the obvious grab since this is NOT the work of a 64-year
> old man from Mesquite.
> Someone else, someplace else did this.  The numbers alone tell the tale of
> something other than an old guy with guns.
> Are we smart or stupid?
> tin.man
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Kaleb wrote:
> There is a lot about this story that makes no sense.

What calibre bullets are being removed from dead victims?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Cannot hurt to do so.
You can always use it for other purposes if the need for a tinfoil 
helmet does not materialize.


RB

On 03/10/2017 11:40 AM, Dan--- via Mercedes wrote:

I'm going by Costco on the way home from work. Should I buy a large roll of 
aluminum foil?

-D


On Oct 3, 2017, at 12:34 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes  
wrote:

Conspiracy theories.
Just like "who killed President Kennedy".

RB



On 03/10/2017 11:12 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
There is a lot about this story that makes no sense. I would not be surprised 
if this guy was setup to take the fall. After all as far as I have heard they 
never actually saw him kill himself.  What is even more strange is if you 
googled his name there were stories about him shooting up vegas that were dated 
the day before all this happened. Also, his Facebook account was deleted right 
after this happened. Dead men can't delete their account so who did?

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes  
wrote:

Kaleb wrote:

Prayers for those wounded or killed in Vegas.

It is sad, for sure.
What is more sad is the obvious grab since this is NOT the work of a
64-year old man from Mesquite.
Someone else, someplace else did this.  The numbers alone tell the
tale of something other than an old guy with guns.
Are we smart or stupid?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

I'm going by Costco on the way home from work. Should I buy a large roll of 
aluminum foil?

-D

> On Oct 3, 2017, at 12:34 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Conspiracy theories.
> Just like "who killed President Kennedy".
> 
> RB
> 
> 
>> On 03/10/2017 11:12 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> There is a lot about this story that makes no sense. I would not be 
>> surprised if this guy was setup to take the fall. After all as far as I have 
>> heard they never actually saw him kill himself.  What is even more strange 
>> is if you googled his name there were stories about him shooting up vegas 
>> that were dated the day before all this happened. Also, his Facebook account 
>> was deleted right after this happened. Dead men can't delete their account 
>> so who did?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Kaleb wrote:
 Prayers for those wounded or killed in Vegas.
>>> It is sad, for sure.
>>> What is more sad is the obvious grab since this is NOT the work of a
>>> 64-year old man from Mesquite.
>>> Someone else, someplace else did this.  The numbers alone tell the
>>> tale of something other than an old guy with guns.
>>> Are we smart or stupid?
>>> tin.man
>>> 
>>> ___
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Conspiracy theories.
Just like "who killed President Kennedy".

RB


On 03/10/2017 11:12 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

There is a lot about this story that makes no sense. I would not be surprised 
if this guy was setup to take the fall. After all as far as I have heard they 
never actually saw him kill himself.  What is even more strange is if you 
googled his name there were stories about him shooting up vegas that were dated 
the day before all this happened. Also, his Facebook account was deleted right 
after this happened. Dead men can't delete their account so who did?

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes  
wrote:

Kaleb wrote:

Prayers for those wounded or killed in Vegas.

It is sad, for sure.
What is more sad is the obvious grab since this is NOT the work of a
64-year old man from Mesquite.
Someone else, someplace else did this.  The numbers alone tell the
tale of something other than an old guy with guns.
Are we smart or stupid?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

There is a lot about this story that makes no sense. I would not be surprised 
if this guy was setup to take the fall. After all as far as I have heard they 
never actually saw him kill himself.  What is even more strange is if you 
googled his name there were stories about him shooting up vegas that were dated 
the day before all this happened. Also, his Facebook account was deleted right 
after this happened. Dead men can't delete their account so who did?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 3, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Mountain Man via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Kaleb wrote:
>> Prayers for those wounded or killed in Vegas.
> 
> It is sad, for sure.
> What is more sad is the obvious grab since this is NOT the work of a
> 64-year old man from Mesquite.
> Someone else, someplace else did this.  The numbers alone tell the
> tale of something other than an old guy with guns.
> Are we smart or stupid?
> tin.man
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Vegas

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Kaleb wrote:
> Prayers for those wounded or killed in Vegas.

It is sad, for sure.
What is more sad is the obvious grab since this is NOT the work of a
64-year old man from Mesquite.
Someone else, someplace else did this.  The numbers alone tell the
tale of something other than an old guy with guns.
Are we smart or stupid?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] Vegas Kleb Car

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Put an OM603 in it!  ?Zeniths


Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
May 7, 2017 at 1:04 PM
Right up your alley, Kaleb:

https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/6117336771.html 



-D


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