Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban
In a message dated 8/8/2003 12:25:16 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are right; it is hard to compare the statistics. I had waited to reply hoping for additional statistics from Bernd (I don't envy you the updating task), but here goes. I have rearranged parts of Jeff's email to make it easier for me to answer. If I have taken anything out of context I apologize in advance. But let's face it... you can't get even close to statements that were made indicating that 95% of new meteorites are commercially collected ones. I agree completely. However this comment line was started in response to comments supporting a collecting ban by individuals who believe the collector/dealer/hunter's contributions are insignificant and completely irrelevant to scientific endevors. That isn't supported by the statistics either. As for rare meteorites, which I will define as non-ordinary-chondrites, there are 1550 from Antarctica and 467 from commercial collections. Let's refine the numbers a bit. Pretty much the start of hot desert collecting was in 1998. Of the numbers you quote above how many are since the start of 1998? Do the same pairing numbers Lindstrom estimated apply to the non-ordinary-chondrites? I don't have access to a database so Jeff if you could let us know I would appreciate it. Meteorites that formed strewn fields get just as many numbers in the Sahara as in Antarctica (one per specimen). I was under the impression that each specimen gets a separate designation in antarctica. If there was a witnessed fall in Antarctica such as bensour in Africa would it get a single name and entry in the catalog listing or would each stone found get a separate designation and entry? I can't make that estimate. That is one of the reasons that I asked about the total mass of Antarctic meteorites. Statistically it would be reasonable to assume the ratio of OCs to other meteorite types would be similar. Certainly differences in weathering will affect the numbers some, but in gross approximation they should be somewhat similar. If there is 10 or 100 times as much mass coming out of the hot desert there should be 10 or 100 times the rare stuff, or at least 2 to 20 times. High mass strewn fields certainly could affect the statistics however neither region has many iron meteorites which would be most likely to affect the approximation. Stony falls aren't big enough that one fall should affect the gross approximation that much. Eric Olson http://www.star-bits.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Where I put?
a new class I open in the site.C Mesosiderites.mah Regards Matteo --- Pekka Savolainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about class C mesosiderite? Or then you have to split the specimen in 2 parts, other part to mesos, other to diogenites...;- take care, pekka M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote: My slice of NWA 1827 Mesosiderite-Diogenite in my collection site? Under the Mesosiderite section or under achondrite diogenites section Regards Matteo = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] canyon city california
Hi list.It has been awhile since I have heard from anyone on this subject.But does anyone have any or know of where I ca get some CANYON CITY, california iron meteorite?8.6 kilos TKW. STEVE = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status?
Hi Tom and List members, I am only responding because a problem seems to be developing here. Mike Farmer claims scientists are wasting their time on this material and that this is a waste of bandwidth on the List. The scientists are the ones who dispatched us to bring this material to them. The University of Washington is studying this material own their own and we are simply assisting by bringing material in. If you look at the archives I did not initiate this Elma status chain, I simply responded to a question. You propagated this long string by asking several questions which were posted to the list. Since they were posted to the List I responded publicly. If this means I am wasting bandwidth you are just as guilty by posting questions to the list. If this is what the List members want. I will simply will not post future results obtained in the lab regarding this material, pretty simple, no need for you and Mike to get nasty. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: Tom aka James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hello List, Mike wrote; , I am simply offended by people wasting scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to get a simple classification. I have to agree with mike here. Adam and Greg said this was not a meteorite in the beginning, and I think they would know! But, I for one, have been chastised big time for posting OT things to the list. There was not a fall in Elma and the things the people from Elma are claiming to meteorites are not meteorites and in my opinion have no place on the list. I am interested in the end result, but until then, I think we should save Art some bandwidth on this subject. Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Ok Adam, tell us all, where did you get your science degree? Oh I forgot, you have none, so please stop playing scientist. I don't have a closed mind, I am simply offended by people wasting scientific time with nonsense, especially now when it can take years to get a simple classification. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Hey Mike and Dear List, Ex and current NASA scientist know the difference between tar and glass. Maybe you should have an open mind because you would be blown away by the lab results if you truly understood mineralogy. This is definitely not tar, only somebody with a closed mind and no understanding of chemistry would make such a statement, go back to school. Adam - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles R. Viau [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Well, It CANNOT be a tekite, tektites are made by large impacts melting the impacted rock. these were found in a telephone pole! My god, every telephone pole I have ever seen is covered in tar or whatever weird melted black stuff they use, sort of like tar on house roofs, which I believe that the Hupes also found in the debris from my printer-smashing Park Forest. H tiny little melted tektites found on the floor under the smashed shingles and tarred roof, more little melted glass like tektites found in and round a telephone pole at the site of a stupid hoax that got way more attention than it should have. I see a curious pattern forming here. Maybe there were some bugs smashed into the tar so we have little spidy creatures like the Frass meteorite. Charles. I have never heard of you, but I assure you that I know just a tad more than you might think, and I assure you that this is a waste of scientific time. It defies the most simple things that we know about meteorites, thus making it bogus. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Charles R. Viau [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Michael Farmer' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Adam Hupe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:35 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Elma Status? Given the reputation of the people examining this stuff, how busy they are, and the amount of time they are willing to spend on this - It's not crap. It is probably more related to a tektite than anything else if
[meteorite-list] Where I put?
My slice of NWA 1827 Mesosiderite-Diogenite in my collection site? Under the Mesosiderite section or under achondrite diogenites section Regards Matteo = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] August Meteorite Magazine
In a message dated 8/6/2003 4:37:35 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The August 2003 issue of "Meteorite" magazine is here, and should be landing in subscribers' mailboxes any day now (or hitting them, if you happen to live in Claxton, Georgia). I believe that you will all find this to be a thoroughly fascinating issue -- it is the "Park Forest Special"! This issue's features: snip "Saint-Aubin: The New French Meteorite" Emmanuel Dransart Michel Baron snip Thank you Geoff! It "hit" my mailbox today. Great picture! For those of you who managed to read beyond the Park Forest articles, you might have noticed that there is a brand new French iron meteorite: Saint Aubin. Jeff Grossman announced it earlier this year, it has been accepted by the NomCom, and should be in the next Met Bulletin. It will be listed as an Anomalous, Coarse Octahedrite. And I should have some slices very soon. It is presently being cut by an expert, and it turned out to be very hard to cut because of all the inclusions. If you would like a sneak peak, go to: http://www.impactika.com/StAubin.jpg This slice is 14.5 cm across, 8 mm thick, and weighs 655 g. Enjoy!!! Anne M. Black www. IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA #2356
RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban - ARMY
THE ARMY IS HERE --- http://www.meteorman.org/NWA_meteorites.htm Best Always, Tim Heitz Midwest Meteorites - Home of the Meteorite Pusher www.Meteorman.Org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 6:43 PM To: Sergey Vasiliev Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban Dear Sergey and List, I feel the performance increase in rare finds from the desert is attributable to free enterprise and education. Moroccans and nomads know they will get more for an achondrite than a normal chondrite. They have learned that meteorites do not need to be magnetic and are now searching for anything out of place. We receive dozens of non-magnetic samples every month, about 10% being meteorites. Lots of fresh material is starting to show up because they know they will receive more money for it. We have been receiving more W0s and W1s than ever before. Three different mesosiderites have shown up in less than a year! The only thing that doesn't show up in greater numbers are irons. I believe there are now over 7,000 nomads, basically an army, keeping an eye out for meteorites. This has everything to do with the amount of material coming out of the Sahara. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: Sergey Vasiliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban Dear Adam and List, Yes, you are right that desert has been easily outperforming Antarctica. But why? That was the question actually... What will happened if you will have enough money to send 100 Moroccans to search the ice for one month? ;-) Bernd, can you estimate it, please? ;-) Nothing against - just wondering... Good night (morning) and all the best, Sergey Sergey Vasiliev U Dalnice 839 Prague 5, 15500 Czech Republic www.sv-meteorites.com www.meteorites4you.com www.sv-minerals.com Dear Sergey and List, I wish I had the time to manage just such a database but this would represent a full-time effort. I think Bernd could tweak his data base to extrapolate some of this data. Maybe if we are nice he will do such a thing. My opinion is that the desert has been easily outperforming Antarctica the last two years and will continue to do so just as long as the laws remain favorable. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: Sergey Vasiliev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban Dear List and Adam, I do not have my copy of MetBase 6.0 yet so it is difficult for me to compare the latest SNCs numbers but... ;-) What about somebody who have a time and knowledge (Adam?) will make a mathematic formula to compare hot/cold deserts finds? Something like that: Deserts Finds: QOF = ((n * t)/S) * LUCK * EXPIRIENSE QOF = Quantity Of Finds n = quantity of nomads or other meteorite hunters or scientists involved in prospecting for meteorites t = average time of one nomad (hunter, scientist) searching for meteorites S = area in square km LUCK - I don't know the math for that yet ;-) EXPIRIENSE - All I know about this parameter is that it is going better time wise Sure you can add some parameters for moving ice in Antarctica to enlarge the S. But... you have to accept that penguins were witness of the falls (too bad we can't understand it yet) Anyway: (Non-Antarctic MINUS witness falls) in compare for the deserts. Sergey Dear List, It is interesting to note that the Non-Antarctic to Antarctic ratio is different when it comes to planetary material. SNCs Qty Non-AntarcticQty Antarctic 18 10 Lunar Qty Non-Antarctic Qty Antarctic 15 12 This ratio is also starting to favor other rare material. The desert is proving to be bountiful for new study material. All the best, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [meteorite-list] Spoof warning Additional, State Parks
Thanks Al. The kind I recognized them to be - they use knives. Its quiet. They did get close enough to guess their nationality. One additional comment...:) Sarah -- almitt wrote: Ahhh Sarah and all, You needed Mr. Smith and Wesson. One shot through the windshield usually gets most idiots to back off!! Of course they might have been armed as well but I think if they were they would have used that option. It is a dangerous area for a lot of reasons. Glad you made it back safe and I wouldn't loose sleep over it as it now makes you more experienced and better equipped to handle future events like that. Had something similar like that happen to me one time. --AL __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] August Meteorite Magazine
Hi Geoff all, I would like to be the first to congratulate you on an excellent article, Geoff, as well as ALL the other Park Forest writers - it is the only time I can remember allowing myself to read such a large portion of the magazine the first day - but, after all, it is still news. I think the reports of the list were the best thing the to ever happen to the list - but these are terrific hard copy records. Park Forest is clearly the Holbrook of the 21st Century. Thus spake Michael Blood on 8/6/03 4:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Listees: The August 2003 issue of Meteorite magazine is here, and should be landing in subscribers' mailboxes any day now (or hitting them, if you happen to live in Claxton, Georgia). I believe that you will all find this to be a thoroughly fascinating issue -- it is the Park Forest Special! This issue's features: The Fall of the Park Forest, Illinois MeteoritePaul P. Sipiera In the Forest of the NightGeoffrey Notkin John Sinclair Rocks from the Red Planet - An Alternative Mission to Mars Norbert Classen Kenya - A New Frontier Gregory M. Hupé The Azuara Crater Dr. Axel von Berg and Guido von Berg An Impact Crater Chain in Northern SpainK. Ernstson, U. Schussler, F. Claudin, T. Ernstson Saint-Aubin: The New French MeteoriteEmmanuel Dransart Michel Baron In addition, there are columns devoted to Shirokovsky and Park Forest by our own Martin Horejsi, a lovely Norton/Toffoli color Petrographic Gallery of photos, Editor's column, letters, etc. A great issue. Don't miss it! For new List members, find out all about Meteorite magazine here: http://www.meteor.co.nz Finally, this issue is a special treat for me, as -- after writing regularly for M for six years -- this is my first cover photograph (thanks Joel). Yes, that's List member John Sinclair's hand, holding a freshly-fallen Park Forest meteorite on top of our authentic strewnfield map, right *in* the strewnfield. Regards, Geoff N. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html -- Facts are stupid things. Ronald Reagan -- Worth Seeing: - Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm - Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Panoramic view of Meteor Crater: http://www.virtualguidebooks.com/Arizona/GrandCanyonRoute66/MeteorCrater/Met eorCraterRimL.html -- Cool Calendar Clock: http://www.yugop.com/ver3/stuff/03/fla.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites Didgeridoos for sale at: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Spoof warning Additional, State Parks
Hi again, Many of you have responded by saying one needs to have firearm backup in such cases as carjacking, but it is important to remember in the intracies of things that you should not use anything like that until you know you are completely at risk. To law enforcement officials you do not want to look like the perpetrator. And never take official action on your own behalf until it is clear you have no other recourse. That is all I have to say. Think safe. Don't panic until it is time too. Be careful of areas that might be dangerous. Meteorites and exploring can still be a great sport. You should absolutely get self defense training if you do high risk things. Sarah --- Jensan Scientifics/ Sci-Mall wrote: Thanks Al. The kind I recognized them to be - they use knives. Its quiet. They did get close enough to guess their nationality. One additional comment...:) Sarah -- almitt wrote: Ahhh Sarah and all, You needed Mr. Smith and Wesson. One shot through the windshield usually gets most idiots to back off!! Of course they might have been armed as well but I think if they were they would have used that option. It is a dangerous area for a lot of reasons. Glad you made it back safe and I wouldn't loose sleep over it as it now makes you more experienced and better equipped to handle future events like that. Had something similar like that happen to me one time. --AL __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
