[meteorite-list] Re: Down Under Connection (0ff topic delete) hunting Apex Chert

[Robert Verish]

Hey Dave!

Another characteristic that links Apex Chert and
ALH84001 is the controversy surrounding them, and
their claim to having evidence for microfossils.
;-)
Bob V.

"earliest life?"
... The oldest well dated and well preserved
microsfossils were described by JW Schopf from the
Apex Chert at Marble Bar, Western Australia. ... 


Astrobiology Magazine
... described 3.5 billion-year-old specimens from
Western Australia as fossilized ... The Apex Chert
microfossils (above) formed in association with hot
fluids near a hot springs... 
 

[RTF] Earth's Oldest Fossils Reverse Course 
By: David Tenenbaum
... fresh debate, [but that]while Lowe may be correct
about some of the South African dikes, he appears to
be mistaken about the Apex chert in Western Australia.




[meteorite-list] Down Under Connection (0ff topic
delete) hunting Apex Chert
David Freeman dfreeman at fascination.com 
Mon Aug 9 21:38:52 EDT 2004 

As an added note: Apex Chert has some of the same mico
fossils as ALH84001   Not as off topic as I once
thought!
DF (who could use a good head soaking)

David Freeman wrote:

> Dear List;
> Please forgive my off topic request.
> I seek an Australian person who could offer any 
> information on my acquiring Apex Chert from Western 
> Australia. Apex Chert is the oldest fossil 
> From Earth at 3.5 BYO.
> Any help/suggestions would be welcomed...minus, 
> of course, soaking my head..
> Best,
> Dave Freeman mjwy
>
> __


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[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture Of The Day - Tuesday, August 10, 2004

[SPACEROCKSINC]

http://www.geocities.com/spacerocksinc/Aug_10.html
===
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[meteorite-list] We're Chating

[almitt]

Those interested in a live chat on meteorites. We're at Mark's chat
room.

--AL

http://www.meteoritearticles.com/chatroom.html


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Re: [meteorite-list] Great British Meteorite Hunt

[Martin Altmann]

They are strange, those Brits
but they have great laws for finders.
So please, Elliott,old scottmen, send the Queen to Australia and Canada to
get the rules
straight there!

Martin


- Original Message - 
From: "Notkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:28 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Great British Meteorite Hunt


> Anyone fancy a nice cup of tea, while hunting?   : )
>
>
> Geoff N.
>
>
> ***
>
>
> >From London's "Independent," August 9, 2004
>
> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/environment/story.jsp?story=549371
>
>
>
> Hunt begins for Britain's elusive stones from space
>
> By Michael McCarthy, Environment Editor
>
> 09 August 2004
>
>
> Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Or is it perhaps a great big bundle of cash?
If it is a meteorite that fell through the sky and landed in your back
garden, it could well turn out to be the last, and this week you will be
given a few handy tips on how to find it.
>
> The Great British Meteorite Hunt starts today, a cross-country quest to
find the elusive space rocks, which can be worth thousands of pounds. Each
year, more than 30 meteorites are thought to fall on British soil, yet only
20 have been found, and scientists believe there must be thousands more
waiting to be discovered.
>
> A new BBC 2 and Open University astronomy series, Stardate, will show
successful meteorite prospectors in a programme in September. A website
called www.Open2. net/astronomy offers tips on where to look and how to
recognise a space rock. Organisers hope thousands of people will join the
hunt.
>
> The scientific value of meteorites which may be billions of years old is
enormous. "These are the oldest objects you can handle," said Richard
Greenwood, the Open University's meteorite curator. "They tell us about the
formation of the solar system and the stars that lived and died before the
solar system formed."
>
> But the manna-from-heaven aspect may be the biggest encouragement to
searchers, because a discovery can makethem rich. Meteorites can be worth
from £20, to many thousands, depending on their weight,composition,
appearance, and origin.
>
> In 2000, Gary Wennihan, an American farmer, found an unusual rock weighing
a little over 4lbs (2kgs) in his field of soya beans in Fairfax, Missouri.
It is, in fact, a rare meteorite that could be worth up to $1m (£550,000).
Many meteorites are sought by private collectors, with those from Mars -
chunks of rock blown into space by asteroids or comets- among the most
valuable. Others fetching a good price are linked to historical stories
about how they fell and were discovered.
>
> "Collecting meteorites is certainly one of the most unusual hobbies," said
Rob Elliott, Britain's leading meteorite dealer, based in Fife. "But holding
a piece of four-and-half-billion-year-old space rock in your hand can really
stir the imagination with a sense of awe and wonderment."
>
> Meteorites have been found in Middlesbrough, Wold Cottage, Appley Bridge,
Rowton, Barwell, Glatton, Aldsworth, Ashdon, Launton, Hatford, Danebury and
Stretchleigh in England; in Glenrothes, Strathmore, Perth and High Possil in
Scotland; in Pontlyfni and Beddgelert in Wales; and in Bovedy and Crumlin in
Northern Ireland.
>
> Dr Greenwood said. "You could look where other meteorites have been found,
because, statistically, there is a higher chance of finding others, or, if
you seek something unique, search in a place where none has been found.
>
> Under UK law, a small sample of the meteorite - 20 per cent of the total
mass, or 20gms, whichever is the smaller - must be donated to an
institution. The rest is owned by the finder, and/or landowner.
>
> HOW TO SPOT A METEORITE
>
> Meteorites are stones from space. There are three main kinds: stoney,
iron, and stoney-iron. Most are thought to be small pieces of asteroids,
though some may be from the heads of comets.
>
> Rare ones have come from other planets, especially the Moon and Mars.
Falls that are witnessed yield higher-value meteorites, no matter what
classification.
>
> Meteorites can be travelling at 150,000 mph in space and most break up in
the upper atmosphere. About 100 tons of meteorites get through to land on
Earth every day, but nearly all are dust-sized grains that nobody notices.
>
> Two-thirds of the Earth is ocean, so most sink. The best place to find
meteorites is the Antarctic: the dark rocks can be spotted more easily on
the white ice. Only 20 or 30 new meteorite falls are found every year. Large
ones, bigger than an egg, are scarce. They are often not recognised at
first, and been used as blacksmith anvils, dog bowls, or to prop up
machinery or cars.
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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Re: [meteorite-list] Down Under Connection (0ff topic delete) hunting Apex Chert

[David Freeman]

As an added note: Apex Chert has some of the same mico fossils as 
ALH84001   Not as off topic as I once thought!
DF (who could use a good head soaking)

David Freeman wrote:
Dear List;
Please forgive my off topic request.
I seek an Australian person who could offer any information on my 
acquiring Apex Chert from Western Australia. Apex Chert is the oldest 
fossil From Earth at 3.5 BYO.
Any help/suggestions would be welcomed...minus, of course, soaking my 
head..
Best,
Dave Freeman mjwy

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[meteorite-list] Down Under Connection (0ff topic delete) hunting Apex Chert

[David Freeman]

Dear List;
Please forgive my off topic request.
I seek an Australian person who could offer any information on my 
acquiring Apex Chert from Western Australia. Apex Chert is the oldest 
fossil From Earth at 3.5 BYO.
Any help/suggestions would be welcomed...minus, of course, soaking my 
head..
Best,
Dave Freeman mjwy

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[meteorite-list] I NEED HELP PLEASE

[scott mitchell]

wow after reading all the "earth core" material on list i realize how 
uneducated i really am. heh.. anywho my question is this. i live in 
yarmouth,   nova scotia,  canada. it is in the atlantic time zone and is the 
eastern most part of canada.. when will be the best time to view the 
upcomming meteor shower... i want to show my wife and daughter where all 
these "rocks" i have lieing about come from... heh   your help is much 
appreciated thx in advance guys and gals.! scott

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[meteorite-list] Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Mission Status - August 9, 2004

[Ron Baalke]

MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE
JET PROPULSION LABORATORY
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
PASADENA, CALIF. 91109.  TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov

Guy Webster (818) 354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

Donald Savage (202) 358-1727
NASA Headquarters, Washington

Joan Underwood (303) 971-7398
Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver

News Release: 2004-196 August 9, 2004

Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Mission Status

With one very busy year remaining before launch, the team preparing
NASA's next mission to Mars has begun integrating and testing the
spacecraft's versatile payload.

Possible launch dates from Cape Canaveral, Fla., for NASA's Mars
Reconnaissance Orbiter begin Aug. 10, 2005. The spacecraft will reach
Mars seven months later to study the surface, subsurface and
atmosphere with the most powerful instrument suite ever flown to the
red planet.

"Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is a quantum leap in our spacecraft and
instrument capabilities at Mars," said James Graf, the mission's
project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
"Weighing 2,180 kilograms [4,806 pounds] at launch, the spacecraft
will be the largest ever to orbit Mars. The data rate from the orbiter
at Mars back to Earth will be three times faster than a high-speed
residential telephone line. This rate will enable us to return a
tremendous amount of data and dramatically increase our understanding
of this mysterious planet."

JPL's Dr. Richard Zurek, project scientist for Mars Reconnaissance
Orbiter, said, "This capability is needed to achieve the
higher-resolution imaging, spectral mapping, atmospheric profiling and
subsurface probing that will allow us to follow up on the exciting
discoveries of the current Mars missions."

Workers at Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver, have been building
the orbiter for more than a year and have reached the final assembly
stage. Flight software is 96 percent complete. Assembly of the launch
vehicle, an Atlas V, has begun at the same facility where the orbiter
is being completed and tested. This will be the first interplanetary
mission hitched to an Atlas since 1973. The Mars Reconnaissance
Orbiter team now numbers about 175 people at Lockheed Martin and 110
at JPL.

Kevin McNeill, Lockheed Martin's program manager for the orbiter,
said, "Our team has completed integration and testing of a majority of
the spacecraft's subsystems. In the next few months, we'll integrate
and test the science instruments on the orbiter, followed by
environmental testing through early next year. We look forward to
getting to the Cape next spring and integrating with the Atlas V
launch vehicle. We're all very excited about getting to Mars and
returning data for the science teams to evaluate."

The spacecraft's six science instruments are in the final stages of
assembly, testing and calibration at several locations for delivery in
coming weeks. The payload also includes a relay telecommunications
package called Electra and two technology demonstrations to support
planning of future Mars missions. "Electra was integrated with the
spacecraft and tested in July," Graf said. "The next payload elements
to be integrated will be the Mars climate sounder and the compact
reconnaissance imaging spectrometer for Mars." The climate sounder,
from JPL, will quantify the martian atmosphere's vertical variations
in water vapor, dust and temperature; the imaging spectrometer, from
Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory of Laurel, Md., will scan the
surface to look for water-related minerals at unprecedented scales,
extending discoveries made by NASA's Mars Exploration Rovers.

The largest telescopic camera ever sent into orbit around another
planet, called the high resolution imaging science experiment, will
reveal Mars surface features as small as a kitchen table. Ball
Aerospace, Boulder, Colo., is building it for the University of
Arizona, Tucson. The orbiter will also carry three other cameras. Two
come from Malin Space Sciences, San Diego: the context camera for
wide-swath, high-resolution pictures, and the Mars multi-color imager
with its fish-eye lens for tracking changes in weather and variations
in atmospheric ozone. An optical navigation camera from JPL will use
positions of Mars' two moons to demonstrate precision navigation for
future missions.

The Italian Space Agency is providing the orbiter's shallow radar
sounding instrument, designed to probe below the surface to discover
evidence of underground layers of ice, rock and, perhaps, melted
water.

Another technology demonstration from JPL will allow comparison of a
higher-frequency, more-efficient radio band with the band commonly
used for interplanetary communications.  This may allow future
missions to return more data with the same expended power.

NASA's chief scientist for Mars, Dr. Jim Garvin, added, "We build our
science strategy for Mars around the next-generation 

RE: [meteorite-list] Dronino is an (ungrouped) ataxite

[Bill Mason III]

Dear Fellow meteorite collectors,
I'd like to help thoes of you that fear RUST - I have stopped it in
the infamous NANTAN. Perhaps I can help you too. My Gout is faiding so I'm
back in the swing of life sans pain.
"rusty"  Bill Mason

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of stan .
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 5:41 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Dronino is an (ungrouped) ataxite




>I am probably one of the few collectors who still do not possess any 
>Dronino specimen for fear of it rusting away as fast as some Nantans.


your deinfatly not the only one... i havent purchased any - being spitting 
distance from the gulf of mexico isnt very conducive to keeping rust prone 
iron meteorites :)

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[meteorite-list] My first 2004 Perseid

[bernd . pauli]

Wow! Wow! Wow!

Before hitting the bunk I wanted to tell you that I saw my first
2004 Perseid about 30 - 40 minutes ago. But this wasn't an
average Perseid - this was a vivid orange fireball, a bolide
or whatever you want to call it  that gave me time enough to
utter a wish before it extinguished. My wish  private :-)

Bernd

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Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture Of The Day | August 9, 2004

[Meteoryt.net]

> ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY:
> http://www.geocities.com/spacerocksinc/Aug_9.html

Wow, this is nice one.
Its a main mass of Amgala 

;-D

-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.PolandMET.com   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com  GSM +48(607)535 195
[ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ]

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[meteorite-list] AMGALA - Message from Aziz Habibi

[dean bessey]

Aziz Habibi (One of the Moroccan meteorite middlemen
dealers) in morocco is having some email problem and
cant post to this list (Something to do with HTML in
his emails I am told) so he asked me to post this
message for him. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with
what is said here. I am just the messenger. If Habibi
could post to the list he would have sent this email
himself.
Cheers
DEAN
_

hello dean
would you please send this email to the list i can't
go true the list 
as i have html inbox as i m on holidays out of 
town.
dear list
there is no zag sold as amgala , and there is no more
zag in morroco.
and definetly i want to close this confusion.
what is sold as amgala is real amgala
all the dealers bought amgala from the same source ,
so what you have 
in your hand is a real amgala.
so i m not going to bargain abaout marketing strategie
of sell , this 
is  very old game.
if someone think he get zag as amgala please let me
know i will bet 
it's not true.
so i sad before in april concerning this subject that
this is only a 
bad confuion.
if there is any proofs of zag sold as amgala i would
like to see them  
even a close photo.
first i want to be  a positive member to this list ,
this is why i do 
not answer most of the post to this list
but this doens't mean that i can not answer them.
so please let stay professional.
and there is no zag sold as amgla at all , i do not
want to expalin 
more , but if some one has proofs let me know
i have sold amgala to more than 40 persons in the list
, is someone get 
zag as amgala let me know.
i prefer that the list stay positive , and just to
know that most of 
the morrocan dealer are very honnest
and also they can not confuse zag with amgala
i do not want to go on personnal consideration but let
stay honnest

aziz



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[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture Of The Day | August 9, 2004

[SPACEROCKSINC]

ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY:
http://www.geocities.com/spacerocksinc/Aug_9.html
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[meteorite-list] Great British Meteorite Hunt

[Notkin]

Anyone fancy a nice cup of tea, while hunting?   : )


Geoff N.


***


>From London's "Independent," August 9, 2004

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/environment/story.jsp?story=549371



Hunt begins for Britain's elusive stones from space

By Michael McCarthy, Environment Editor

09 August 2004


Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Or is it perhaps a great big bundle of cash? If it is a 
meteorite that fell through the sky and landed in your back garden, it could well turn 
out to be the last, and this week you will be given a few handy tips on how to find it.

The Great British Meteorite Hunt starts today, a cross-country quest to find the 
elusive space rocks, which can be worth thousands of pounds. Each year, more than 30 
meteorites are thought to fall on British soil, yet only 20 have been found, and 
scientists believe there must be thousands more waiting to be discovered.

A new BBC 2 and Open University astronomy series, Stardate, will show successful 
meteorite prospectors in a programme in September. A website called www.Open2. 
net/astronomy offers tips on where to look and how to recognise a space rock. 
Organisers hope thousands of people will join the hunt.

The scientific value of meteorites which may be billions of years old is enormous. 
"These are the oldest objects you can handle," said Richard Greenwood, the Open 
University's meteorite curator. "They tell us about the formation of the solar system 
and the stars that lived and died before the solar system formed."

But the manna-from-heaven aspect may be the biggest encouragement to searchers, 
because a discovery can makethem rich. Meteorites can be worth from £20, to many 
thousands, depending on their weight,composition, appearance, and origin.

In 2000, Gary Wennihan, an American farmer, found an unusual rock weighing a little 
over 4lbs (2kgs) in his field of soya beans in Fairfax, Missouri. It is, in fact, a 
rare meteorite that could be worth up to $1m (£550,000). Many meteorites are sought by 
private collectors, with those from Mars - chunks of rock blown into space by 
asteroids or comets- among the most valuable. Others fetching a good price are linked 
to historical stories about how they fell and were discovered.

"Collecting meteorites is certainly one of the most unusual hobbies," said Rob 
Elliott, Britain's leading meteorite dealer, based in Fife. "But holding a piece of 
four-and-half-billion-year-old space rock in your hand can really stir the imagination 
with a sense of awe and wonderment."

Meteorites have been found in Middlesbrough, Wold Cottage, Appley Bridge, Rowton, 
Barwell, Glatton, Aldsworth, Ashdon, Launton, Hatford, Danebury and Stretchleigh in 
England; in Glenrothes, Strathmore, Perth and High Possil in Scotland; in Pontlyfni 
and Beddgelert in Wales; and in Bovedy and Crumlin in Northern Ireland.

Dr Greenwood said. "You could look where other meteorites have been found, because, 
statistically, there is a higher chance of finding others, or, if you seek something 
unique, search in a place where none has been found.

Under UK law, a small sample of the meteorite - 20 per cent of the total mass, or 
20gms, whichever is the smaller - must be donated to an institution. The rest is owned 
by the finder, and/or landowner.

HOW TO SPOT A METEORITE

Meteorites are stones from space. There are three main kinds: stoney, iron, and 
stoney-iron. Most are thought to be small pieces of asteroids, though some may be from 
the heads of comets.

Rare ones have come from other planets, especially the Moon and Mars. Falls that are 
witnessed yield higher-value meteorites, no matter what classification.

Meteorites can be travelling at 150,000 mph in space and most break up in the upper 
atmosphere. About 100 tons of meteorites get through to land on Earth every day, but 
nearly all are dust-sized grains that nobody notices.

Two-thirds of the Earth is ocean, so most sink. The best place to find meteorites is 
the Antarctic: the dark rocks can be spotted more easily on the white ice. Only 20 or 
30 new meteorite falls are found every year. Large ones, bigger than an egg, are 
scarce. They are often not recognised at first, and been used as blacksmith anvils, 
dog bowls, or to prop up machinery or cars.  

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[meteorite-list] Improperly Claiming of Pairings

[Adam Hupe]

Dear List,

It has come to my attention that several dealers are using the NWA 1110
designation  to describe their untested Martian finds.  NWA 1110 consists of
several fragments weighing 118 grams, all of which were looked at by a
planetary scientists (Dr. Irving)and confirmed to be authentic.  NWA 1110 is
paired to NWA 1068( 654 grams) and NWA 1775(25 grams). As far as I know no
other designations have been made official at this point and type specimens
have not been deposited for testing so take your chances.

If it is not pictured here it is not NWA 1110:
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/nwa1110.html

Wishing everybody the best,



Adam Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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[meteorite-list] Fireball Crashes into Desert east of Bullhead city Az

[WAHLPERRY]

Hi List,

Just got of the phone with Jim Dykens From the Bullhead City Fire Department.I told 
Jim that I was calling about the reported fireball / Airplane exploding east of 
Bullheadon August 7,2004. Jim stated that they responded Fire engines from two fire 
Departments and a Helicopter to the area east of Bullhead. After searching the area 
they determined it to be fireworks. Witnesses reported to the Fire department seeing a 
explosion and what appeared to be three flares being shot into the air from the area.
Who knows it may be worth looking in the area! There may be a new strewn-field . 
Franconia and Gold Basin are just over the hill.

Sonny
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[meteorite-list] Perseids' Shower

[MexicoDoug]

Dear List,

In case anyone is interested in a summary of some topics that make observing the 
upcoming and in progress Perseid Meteor Shower interesting, besides the great 
fireworks themselves, I am posting this message, which I couldn't post on July 30, due 
to AOL difficulties.  This is possibly the finest meteor showers of the year and helps 
makes the Summer and in particular August, "Meteormonth"... Enjoy !!!


Asunto: Perseids Shower  
Fecha: 07/31/2004 10:58:15 AM Mexico Daylight Time 
De: MexicoDoug 
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


I am reposting this since it didn't go through yesterday morning:

>>I was curious if anyone knew when would be the best time 
>>to view the upcoming meteor shower next month if a person
>>was located in say.Newport, Oregon Thanks, Curt (Cj)

Hola Curt,

Any place where especially the Northeast is dark, away from the lights of 
say...Newport, Oregon and any other town in the hemisphere.  You might prefer a 
hillside with Northeastern exposure, but that is not required, the hillside just makes 
it harder to fall asleep from being on your back, and the northern exposure just 
allows you to see the "radiant" so you can be sure of the authenticity of the meteors 
you see.  (Meteors can show up in most of the sky, though all the Perseids seem to 
come out of Perseus, due to the orbital dynamics as the earth slams into the 
directional meteoroid stream.  And of course a place that isn't too hazy and 
definitely not cloudy or rainy.

The best time will be, as in the case of most all meteor observing, before dawn and in 
the absence of much moonlight.  So if you can, bring your girlfriend and tell her you 
want to watch meteors, the beautiful crescent Moonrise and the beautiful 
half-Venusrise, on the morning of August 12 Thursday Morning, a.k.a. late Wednesday 
night).  The Moon will rise at about 2:18 AM quickly followed by Venus at about 2:37 
AM.  So you should be settled in watching meteors by no later than 2:00 AM.

The Moon and Venus will be rather close, and thus quite romantic looking, practically 
plastered on Castor, whose head is the star of the same name in the constellation 
Gemini, the twin brothers with different fathers.  Castor, the slightly dimmer of the 
two bright head-stars, by the way was the mortal of the commemorated pair, and son of 
Tyndareus and Leda, while Jupiter (Zeus) was hot for Leda and turned into a Swan and 
she laid two eggs after being seduced, one from her husband and one from Zeus.  They 
grew up and were inseparable brothers until Idas killed Castor - and Pollux mourned 
him so much that Zeus put them together again in the stars (and also Castor was given 
visiting rights on alternate days to Hades to be with his beloved brother).

Perseus' story is similar in that Zeus fooled around with yet another king's wife who 
then bore Perseus, so step Dad was somewhat miffed with this abuse of divine authority 
and sent Perseus on what was thought to be certain death to kill Medusa, the ugliest 
of the snake haired trio of Gorgon sisters that turned one to stone if if you so much 
as glanced at them.  Perseus lived, completed the task (delivering the head as 
requested as a wedding present), and then killed Cetus or Draco to rescue the 
beautiful Andromeda, daughter of the vain Goddess offending African Queen Cassiopeia 
who was chained to a chaise lounge in punishment (The "W"), and each of these 
characters but the ugly Gorgons got their constellations.  Four stars in Perseus have 
Gorgon names, though, and the rather bright ever changing variable star Algol 
(English: Ghoul, a.k.a. Gorgonea Prima, a.k.a. Ras Al Gul), the second brightest star 
of Perseus is supposed to be Medusa's head, and three other stars around it are named 
Secunda, Tertia y Quarta, for the three sisters.  Algol is famously amazing as it 
varies its brightness as a factor of about five as it has a fast orbiting star (69 
hours) around it that is continuously connected by a sucked particle stream, providing 
amazing views to ringside observers in their shielded starships.  This variability of 
brightness to the naked eye no doubt led to the "demonic" nature attributed to Algol, 
the "Demonhead-Star".  The "annular" eclipse (when Algol loses 80% of its brightness 
and Medusa "winks") is visible in Oregon (PDT) from 12:30 to 2:30 AM on August 2 (but 
full Moon throughout), and again from 9:30 PM to 11:30 PM on August 4 (near full Moon 
after Moonrise at 10:50 pm, so a respectable 10-10:30 PM is best), if you'd like to 
warm up, as Perseids are visible pretty much the whole month...even some before 
midnight when the rotation of the Earth favors seeing more meteors for observers at 
that time

The "radiant" is the point where the Perseids seem to "radiate" from, like the hub of 
a bicycle wheel and spokes, but the meteors can appear in most of the sky.  So if you 
know where the radiant is, you pretty much confirm authenticity that the meteor you 
see is really a Pers

RE: [meteorite-list] Earths core

[mark ford]

Goran,

>> OK, just forget the last reply I made in this thread. I'm feeling old.<<

It's all right, I am actually a Nuclear Engineer myself (I design Radiation 
detectors), and I didn't understand most of it either! :)


It would explain the origin of helium 3 that is found in deep geological samples..

"Nuclear fission, as shown in the present paper, provides a viable mechanism for the 
deep-Earth production of 3He, rather than the assumed origin from a yet non-degassed 
part of the Earth. The helium observed in such geological samples, the authors 
suggest, may be evidence of deep-Earth nuclear fission"



Interesting subject though, Show's how little we really know, about what's under our 
feet! And indeed above our heads..

Very Best,
Mark



-Original Message-
From: Göran Axelsson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 09 August 2004 16:49
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Earths core

Very interesting article!

OK, just forget the last reply I made in this thread.

I'm feeling old.

  ;-)

/Göran

mark ford wrote:

>Stan,
>
>Looking around, several studies have shown that a self sustaining
>fission reaction, is indeed possible in the core of a planet. 
>
>See:
> 
>http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=58687
>
>
>Mark
>
>
>  
>

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[meteorite-list] Asteroid Threat 'To Cease Within 30 Years'

[Ron Baalke]

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3318694

Asteroid Threat 'To Cease Within 30 Years'

By John von Radowitz
scotsman.com (United Kingdom)
August 9, 2004

Killer asteroids will essentially cease to be a threat within the next
30 years, a leading expert said today.

Scientists are discovering near-earth asteroids (NEAs) so fast that the
chances of one hitting the Earth with no warning is likely to become
minute, said Dr Benny Peiser.

Since 1995 the number of known NEAs had shot up from just 300 to 3,000.

By 2008, it was expected that 90% of the estimated 1,000 to 1,200
asteroids big enough to wipe out civilisation would be found, said Dr
Peiser, one of the world's leading asteroid experts from Liverpool John
Moores University.

The rest of these space rocks, measuring more than a kilometre across,
would probably be detected within the next 20 years.

Two powerful new telescopes due to start operating in the next few years
would find as many asteroids each month as have been discovered in the
last decade, said Dr Peiser.

"Within the next one or two generations we will no longer have asteroid
impact disaster movies," he said at a science briefing in London.

"The good news is we have now developed not just the knowledge about the
threat we face but also potentially the technology with which to deal
with it."

Future discoveries and space missions would provide information about
how to deflect an asteroid on collision course with the Earth.

Within 20 to 30 years, search systems would exist with the ability to
detect 90% of all NEAs larger than 150 metres across.

Dr Peiser said if an asteroid did hit the Earth it would be most likely
to strike an uninhabited region or an ocean.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Earths core

[Göran Axelsson]

Very interesting article!
OK, just forget the last reply I made in this thread.
I'm feeling old.
 ;-)
/Göran
mark ford wrote:
Stan,
Looking around, several studies have shown that a self sustaining
fission reaction, is indeed possible in the core of a planet. 

See:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=58687
Mark
 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Earths core

[Göran Axelsson]

I'm not a nuclear engineer but a physicist and an amateur geologist so I 
add my 2 cents
of worth to the discussion. I'm a bit sceptic that there should be any 
natural reactors
in the earth core. I'm not familiar with the magazine and I don't know 
the quality of
their articles... but here I go...

You are forgetting that the deeper you go the less gravity you have and 
the core is
solid too. The fissible material should be evenly spread through the 
core and as
we know in the mantle and the crust too. You need an enrichment process to
get the fissible material dense enough to start a chain reaction.
In the Oklo natural reactor the ore were rich enough and the process were
moderated by water. When the heat became too high the water turned into
steam and the effect went down.
Read more at http://www.curtin.edu.au/curtin/centre/waisrc/OKLO/index.shtml

If there have been any major nuclear chainreactions during geological times
then we should detect slight changes in the isotopic composition of uranium,
that was how Oklo was discovered.
I thought the idea that the heat of the earth core came from gravitational
sources only were disputed in the late 19'th century and when radioactive
decay were discovered the natural decay of K U and Th was enough to make
up for the missing energy. No "fission reactor" were necessary to speed up
the process to create the heat needed to keep the Earth volcanic active.
The reason that the other planets mostly lacks volcanic activity is that the
earth is the biggest of the rock planets and the volume (fissionable matter)
is proportional to the cube of the radius while the surface area is
proportional to the square of the radius. With only a tenth of the mass
of the earth to heat a fourth of the area of the earth it isn't hard to see
why Mars have so much less volcanic activities. It just have a more
efficient cooling solution.
Btw, the current relationship between U235 and U238 isn't high enough
today that a natural reactor could form. That's why we need to raise the
grade of the uranium from 0.72% to 3.5% to 5% that is used in reactors.
That fact by it self would say that the scientists will not find any reactor
inside the core!
The half life of  uranium is 4.5 billion years and the Oklo reactor worked
2 billion years ago when the ratio were higher.
I would like to know who the scientists are that said this :
"They point out that natural nuclear reactors exist on earth already, in 
area's where uranium is sufficiently concentrated in the rock, it has
undergone fission."

As far as I know Oklo is the only known natural reactor and that shut
down a lng time ago. Maybe it should read "existed"
And it's NOT common sense that heavy elements should go deep into the
earth. Many elements that occurs in low levels are concentrated by
geochemical processes (copper,  gold, lead) or dispersed in vast 
quantities of
silicates (rare earth metals). Copper is a lot rarer in the crust than the
rare earth elements but the latter is very rarely concentrated in ores.

Anyone wanna bet some money on the discovery of  an active core
reactor? I'm taking your monetary bets now.
This is of course a gross simplification based mostly on my memory and
that's usually fatal...  :-)
/Göran
Marc D. Fries wrote:
Greetings
  A quick two cents...  It makes sense that the heaviest elements will
sink to the center of a planetary body, and that far more than enough
would accumulate to sustain a nuclear reaction.  The problem that nags
at me is - how to moderate the reactor?  In a nuclear reactor,
moderator rods (graphite, I think...) are used to slow down fission
neutrons enough that they can be absorbed by the fuel to sustain the
reaction.  Recall that the first nuclear reactor, under the stadium in
Chicago, was composed of fissile material encased in graphite moderator
blocks.  The "natural reactors" in uranium deposits in Africa show
signs that they only operated during periods of heavy rainfall -
groundwater perculating through the deposits would act as a moderator
and allow the deposit to sustain a nuclear reaction.
  So - what would act as a moderator in the core of a planet?  I'm going
way out on a limb here, but I bet that groundwater is right out...!
  Is it possible that a reactor in the core would simply be large enough
to self-moderate?  Any nuclear engineers out there care to have a shot
at this?
Cheers,
MDF
 

Hi.
Just been reading an interesting article in 'New scientist' (this
weeks).
It is about the centre of the Earth (i.e the core) , apparently there is
simply  far too much heat to be explained by the conventional 'still
molten since it formed' theory (or from gravitation actions).
One theory that is being taken seriously is that fissile radioactive
elements (These being the heaviest elements)  would sink into the core
mixture) and start a nuclear chain reaction, so the extra heat could be
generated from nuclear processes. Scientists are looking for the tell
tale anti neutrino's that could in

RE: [meteorite-list] Earths core

[mark ford]

Hi

I think the key is that fission is possible because it's not just the
one element involved, you would certainly have a lot of weird physics
going on!

(From D. F. Hollenbach et al)
 
 "At the pressures that prevail in the Earth's core, density is a
function almost exclusively of atomic mass and atomic number. Uranium,
thorium, and other actinides, being high-temperature precipitates and
the densest substances, by the action of gravity, would tend to
concentrate, possibly scavenged by other precipitates, ultimately
forming a fissionable, critical mass (4-6). The same mechanism for
concentrating the actinides (i.e., gravitational separation by density
at high pressure) should cause the lighter fission products to separate
from the heavier actinides, thus helping to maintain a
nuclear-reactor-critical configuration."

Mark



-Original Message-
From: mark ford 
Sent: 09 August 2004 16:36
To: stan .; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Earths core


Stan,

Looking around, several studies have shown that a self sustaining
fission reaction, is indeed possible in the core of a planet. 

See:
 
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=58687


Mark




-Original Message-
From: stan . [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 09 August 2004 16:15
To: mark ford; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Earths core


>Well, Half life can't change (otherwise the universe would be in a real

>mess) but who knows what effect very very high pressure, heat and 
>gravitational force would have on a fission reaction, maybe at the
earths 
>core, a nuclear reaction happens at an accelerated rate due to the much

>higher pressures (i.e the atoms are forced much closer together, and
there 
>would be total neutron absorbtion) or maybe even hot fusion? This would

>result in the radioisotopes transmuting into Lead and Iron etc a lot
faster 
>than they would under natural decay.


fusion isn to going to be possible in the earth's core- tempertures are
off 
by several orders of magnitude..

fission reactions arent affected by high pressure, heat or gravity
(within 
sensible limits). as the earth's core is under tremendous pressure it's 
density is increased, so the criticle mass of uranium is correspondingly

lowered, making it easier for a blob of uranium to undergo a fission
chain 
reaction. this sint going to 'transmute radioisotopse into lead and
iron' 
any faster however, since the timespan of the radioactive decay chain is

unchanged.

also, if we were to find a hunk of a heavy (density wise) element iron 
meteorite, remeber that it would ahve to come from the core of a body
large 
enough to differentiate to a similar extent as the earth (per your
original 
question). i dont know if there are any asteroids out there that sample 
hundreds if not thousands of miles inside of what used to be a large
body.

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RE: [meteorite-list] Earths core

[stan .]

Well, Half life can't change (otherwise the universe would be in a real 
mess) but who knows what effect very very high pressure, heat and 
gravitational force would have on a fission reaction, maybe at the earths 
core, a nuclear reaction happens at an accelerated rate due to the much 
higher pressures (i.e the atoms are forced much closer together, and there 
would be total neutron absorbtion) or maybe even hot fusion? This would 
result in the radioisotopes transmuting into Lead and Iron etc a lot faster 
than they would under natural decay.

fusion isn to going to be possible in the earth's core- tempertures are off 
by several orders of magnitude..

fission reactions arent affected by high pressure, heat or gravity (within 
sensible limits). as the earth's core is under tremendous pressure it's 
density is increased, so the criticle mass of uranium is correspondingly 
lowered, making it easier for a blob of uranium to undergo a fission chain 
reaction. this sint going to 'transmute radioisotopse into lead and iron' 
any faster however, since the timespan of the radioactive decay chain is 
unchanged.

also, if we were to find a hunk of a heavy (density wise) element iron 
meteorite, remeber that it would ahve to come from the core of a body large 
enough to differentiate to a similar extent as the earth (per your original 
question). i dont know if there are any asteroids out there that sample 
hundreds if not thousands of miles inside of what used to be a large body.

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RE: [meteorite-list] Earths core

[mark ford]

Stan,

Looking around, several studies have shown that a self sustaining
fission reaction, is indeed possible in the core of a planet. 

See:
 
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=58687


Mark




-Original Message-
From: stan . [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 09 August 2004 16:15
To: mark ford; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Earths core


>Well, Half life can't change (otherwise the universe would be in a real

>mess) but who knows what effect very very high pressure, heat and 
>gravitational force would have on a fission reaction, maybe at the
earths 
>core, a nuclear reaction happens at an accelerated rate due to the much

>higher pressures (i.e the atoms are forced much closer together, and
there 
>would be total neutron absorbtion) or maybe even hot fusion? This would

>result in the radioisotopes transmuting into Lead and Iron etc a lot
faster 
>than they would under natural decay.


fusion isn to going to be possible in the earth's core- tempertures are
off 
by several orders of magnitude..

fission reactions arent affected by high pressure, heat or gravity
(within 
sensible limits). as the earth's core is under tremendous pressure it's 
density is increased, so the criticle mass of uranium is correspondingly

lowered, making it easier for a blob of uranium to undergo a fission
chain 
reaction. this sint going to 'transmute radioisotopse into lead and
iron' 
any faster however, since the timespan of the radioactive decay chain is

unchanged.

also, if we were to find a hunk of a heavy (density wise) element iron 
meteorite, remeber that it would ahve to come from the core of a body
large 
enough to differentiate to a similar extent as the earth (per your
original 
question). i dont know if there are any asteroids out there that sample 
hundreds if not thousands of miles inside of what used to be a large
body.

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[meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rover Update - August 6, 2004

[Ron Baalke]

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html

OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: "Tuktoyuktuk's" Turn - sol 186-187, August 06, 2004

The rock abrasion tool has been keeping busy at Opportunity's position
about 22 meters (72 feet) inside of "Endurance Crater" while rover
handlers are preparing for Opportunity's next traverse.

Sol Highlights:

186 - After a night of deep sleep, Opportunity started the sol with
imaging of the sky in search of clouds and using its miniature thermal
emission spectrometer for observations of the sky and ground. In the
afternoon, the rover took microscopic images of a target called
"Tuktoyuktuk," then used its rock abrasion tool to gnaw a hole 7.7
millimeters (0.3 inch) deep into that target. The robotic arm moved the
alpha particle X-ray spectrometer into position for reading of the
composition of the freshly exposed interior of the rock.

187 - Opportunity woke for an early morning Mars Odyssey communications
relay session. After that, the rover started the alpha particle X-ray
spectrometer reading, which lasted until 9:00 a.m. local solar time.
Opportunity then took a long nap as the uplink command window was
delayed until 1:00 p.m. local solar time due to launch of NASAs
Messenger mission to Mercury. In the afternoon, Opportunity rotated its
tool turret from the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer to the Mössbauer
spectrometer and acquired a 7-hour Mössbauer reading before beginning
deep sleep.

The rover team is addressing some concerns about rover slippage and
about error messages from the microscopic imager. An uphill driving test
is planned for sol 188 to gain better understanding of a 40-percent slip
observed in a repositioning maneuver on sol 185. This will aid planning
for a potential drive clockwise across the inner slope of the crater
toward rocks called the "Arctic Islands" and the base of "Burns Cliff."
Diagnostic work is also planned for sol 188 about the error messages
generated during use of the microscopic imager.


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Re: [meteorite-list] Earths core

[stan .]

   Is it possible that a reactor in the core would simply be large enough
to self-moderate?  Any nuclear engineers out there care to have a shot
at this?
it would have to be.. dont forget that the core is liquid (discounting the 
solid inner core, as presumably it wouldnt differentiate very much) and 
subject to immense confining pressure. if a region achieved criticality it 
would create a local hotspot, and presumably disrupt it's self - if it didnt 
energy output would increase exponentially till the point that very bad 
things would happen, provided there was enough fissile material locally

AFIK the natural reactors that have been seen in dense areas of uranium ore 
were moderated by ground water. the reactor was critical when groundwater 
seeped into the ore, then shut it's self off as the building energy forced 
out superheated water.

on a related note - there have been several prompt critical reactors built. 
basically little more than 2 hunks of fissile material that start a nuclear 
chain reaction when brought close enough together. Such reactors produce 
energy at an exponentially increasing manner untill they are either shut 
off, or destroy themselves via overheating - melting or actually fragmenting 
from shock due to rapid heating (there arent too many ways to heat a 110 lbs 
block of uranium from room temp to 3000 degrees in 2 seconds, but an 
uncontrolled chain reaction is certainly one of them! :) )

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Re: [meteorite-list] Earths core

[Marc D. Fries]

Greetings

   A quick two cents...  It makes sense that the heaviest elements will
sink to the center of a planetary body, and that far more than enough
would accumulate to sustain a nuclear reaction.  The problem that nags
at me is - how to moderate the reactor?  In a nuclear reactor,
moderator rods (graphite, I think...) are used to slow down fission
neutrons enough that they can be absorbed by the fuel to sustain the
reaction.  Recall that the first nuclear reactor, under the stadium in
Chicago, was composed of fissile material encased in graphite moderator
blocks.  The "natural reactors" in uranium deposits in Africa show
signs that they only operated during periods of heavy rainfall -
groundwater perculating through the deposits would act as a moderator
and allow the deposit to sustain a nuclear reaction.
   So - what would act as a moderator in the core of a planet?  I'm going
way out on a limb here, but I bet that groundwater is right out...!

   Is it possible that a reactor in the core would simply be large enough
to self-moderate?  Any nuclear engineers out there care to have a shot
at this?

Cheers,
MDF

>
> Hi.
>
> Just been reading an interesting article in 'New scientist' (this
> weeks).
>
> It is about the centre of the Earth (i.e the core) , apparently there is
> simply  far too much heat to be explained by the conventional 'still
> molten since it formed' theory (or from gravitation actions).
>
> One theory that is being taken seriously is that fissile radioactive
> elements (These being the heaviest elements)  would sink into the core
> mixture) and start a nuclear chain reaction, so the extra heat could be
> generated from nuclear processes. Scientists are looking for the tell
> tale anti neutrino's that could indicate nuclear reactions going on.
> They point out that natural nuclear reactors exist on earth already, in
> area's where uranium is sufficiently concentrated in the rock, it has
> undergone fission.
>
> If this where the case, there ought to be similar processes going on
> other planetary bodies (indeed this might explain why mars still appears
> to have volcanism when it shouldn't really have, for it's size?).
>
> My question:
>
> Would we not expect to find iron meteorites with nuclear reaction
> by-products or even higher than normal un-reacted radioisotope
> concentrations - if this were feasible?
>
> Or is it a case of Asteroids being too small to differentiate enough for
> the heavier elements to collect in sufficient quantities?
>
> Maybe we just haven't had a sample of 'inner core' yet, and somewhere
> out there are chunks of natural reactor!!
>
> Best,
> Mark Ford
>
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-- 
Marc D. Fries, Ph.D.
Postdoctoral Research Associate
Carnegie Institution of Washington
Geophysical Laboratory
5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW
Washington, DC 20015
PH:  202 478 7970
FAX: 202 478 8901
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Re: [meteorite-list] Amgala allegatons: fact or fancy?

[dean bessey]

I am really confused about something. From a posting
in april the hubes said that:

"Be careful about find location as we reported the
strewn field was between Amgala and Oum Dreyga the
very first post we made on the subject.  An unrelated
L5, W2 black chondrite find was being mixed in at
first skewing the strewn field results".

In the beginning it was some mystery meteorite being
sold as amgala but now it is Zag that is being sold as
amgala. So is there one or two meteorites now being
substituted as amgala? And what happened to the
"Mystery" meteorite. Did that one ever get classified
and named?
On another note I have seen many kilos of Zag and it
would be extremily hard for me to believe that almost
all dealers (Or even 65% of them) would get confused
between zag and amgala. Ignoring the fact that Zag is
now very weathered and it would be hard to find kilos
upon kilos that some moroccan just warehoused for 6
years without trying to sell it the cut surface dont
look the same and amgala rusts out much faster than
zag. No Zag found in the last year could possibly be
confused with amgala.
But I am wondering where this mystery meteorite went
and when did the moroccan dealers stop selling the
mystery meteorite as amgala and then switch to Zag and
start selling Zag instead as amgala?
Also, how much of this mystery meteorite is out there,
does anybody have photos of the mystery meteorite that
they could show me. 
Sincerely
DEAN






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RE: [meteorite-list] Chat Areas

[MARK BOSTICK]

Hello Al,
Hope the Indiana summer is doing you well.  (Sort of a play on phrase Indian 
summer).

Al asked, "In the past a number of group members were going over to Mark 
Bostick's
area and using the chat room. Mark laid out suggested times to meet in
order to do this. Is that something still being done or has the group
moved to another area. Just curious."

The chat room Al is referring to is, 
http://www.meteoritearticles.com/chatroom.html

I tried to find a time that most could use, but it never really seemed to 
pan out.  i go through peroids of times I hang out there and times I do not. 
 I did meet the Park Forest homeowner I purchased the house damage from in 
the chatroom.

I will drop in the room a couple times tonight
Mark Bostick
www.meteoritearticles.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Amgala allegatons: fact or fancy?

[MARK BOSTICK]

Hello Adam and list,
Adam wrote: "Let me make a quick clarification. 65% of what has been coming 
out of Morocco lately"

This clarification is much more believable, and honest, then your previous 
comment.  Where you pretty much said, everybody but yourself, has sold fake 
Amgala.  Some dealers in the past have played with the my meteorites are 
better then your meteorites type of list campaign. This was kind of a step 
or two below that.

"Some specimens have a dark litholgy Oxidation was found surrounding metal 
deep inside cut pieces There was pink calcite in some fusion crust cracks 
The crust on Zag is sometimes frothy on trailing edges None of the specimens 
had a brown sheen on the exterior The metal distribution is somewhat 
different"

I agree with you Adam that Amgala and Zag look different.  The Amgala matrix 
is pretty much two colors and Zag is kind of colorful.  I have not seen 
anything in the meteorite to suggest brecciation, as others have suggested, 
my guess is H5.  The crust on the two is quite a bit different, Amgala is 
velvety, and like you mentioned Zag is kind of rough.  I have an endcut of 
Amgala that has a  VERY fresh and very thin patchy secondary crust.  
Something I have only seen on meteorites that were picked up right after 
fall.  All of the Zag that has been sold the last few years is more 
weathered then the previous.and a person would have had a hard time 
buying 20 small fully crusted stones of Zag...when the Moroccans had more 
the meteorite then they know what to do with.  Most were fragments and water 
damaged.

Adam continued, "I will not bring this subject up again since a few dealers 
have a problem with it. Next time I will mind my own business and let the 
buyers sort it out for themselves."

I think most of us appreciate and enjoy learning more information on the 
meteorites in our collections.  If you would have said something like, 
"Dealers who are buying Amgala from Morocco should be careful because", 
or "I had something interesting happen to me..."

Rather when you make untrue statements such as "~65% of the dealers who 
think they are selling the real McCoy are in error because they believe 
their Moroccan supplier.", you should expect at least a couple of people to 
e-mail you.

Clear Skies,
Mark Bostick
www.meteoritearticles.com
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RE: [meteorite-list] Earths core

[mark ford]

Francis,

I never quite get how far down Volcanic material actually comes from?
The Mantle is a big place, I always assumed it was the result of
tectonic friction rather than direct heat from the core? Am I wrong in
this?

Mark Ford



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Re: [meteorite-list] Earths core

[Francis Graham]

Dear Mark,
   This might well be the case on Earth.
   Natural fission reactions have occurred in the Oklo
uranium deposits in present-day Gabon, in the late
Archean.
   Even more dramatic will be the case on "Population
Zero" planets. "Population Zero" planets do not exist
yet; they will exist about 3 or 4 billion years from
now when higher elements' abundances have increased in
the interstellar medium from Population I star
supernovas occurring now, and if star formation in the
galaxy continues.
   Such Population Zero planets would have a vigorous
fission occurring in their cores and would have
hot-spot volcanoes of jets of vaporized material
spewing out into space. It would be a while before
these physically tumultuous worlds could support life
as we know it. Note the caveat "as we know it."
   The mantle would collapse into the depleted core
forming in the upper mantle extensive faulting, which
later would support living things that are hot-spot
chemosynthesizers in the brine that would infuse into
these many spaces. As this life would evolve into
multicellular forms, it would eventually leave these
crevasses for the surface, much as ocean life left for
land in our Paleozoic, especially as the spaces
sedimented in from the detrius of such life.  If such
life on the surface later evolved intelligence, we
might envision the following conversation:

  "Hello, Dear, how was work today?"
  "Oh, Jim, it was terrible. We found a whole new way
to convert zorbomite to food rocks using solar energy,
but those darn little plague chemosynthesizers
infested our test batch."
  "Well, Marge, I prepared your favorite meal of
reduced Europium titanates. Their many valence states
are healthy for your hearts, you know--"
  "Little Margie! Stop that! Don't play with your rock
pulverizer! Use it on your food!"

  We Earth land vertebrates must eat one rock, halite
(salt) to live; evolved surface chemosynthesizers
would have many many more they must eat and on
Population Zero planets these would be plentiful in
variety.
  I wonder if there is a way to detect samarium,
neodymium and other fission products in the core of
the Earth. If hot spot volcanoes, such as Mauna Loa,
really come from deep within the mantle near the
core-mantle boundary there ought to be some trace of
fission in the Earth's core if it is really happening.

Francis Graham





--- mark ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Hi.
> 
> Just been reading an interesting article in 'New
> scientist' (this
> weeks).
> 
> It is about the centre of the Earth (i.e the core) ,
> apparently there is
> simply  far too much heat to be explained by the
> conventional 'still
> molten since it formed' theory (or from gravitation
> actions).
> 
> One theory that is being taken seriously is that
> fissile radioactive
> elements (These being the heaviest elements)  would
> sink into the core
> mixture) and start a nuclear chain reaction, so the
> extra heat could be
> generated from nuclear processes. Scientists are
> looking for the tell
> tale anti neutrino's that could indicate nuclear
> reactions going on.
> They point out that natural nuclear reactors exist
> on earth already, in
> area's where uranium is sufficiently concentrated in
> the rock, it has
> undergone fission.
> 
> If this where the case, there ought to be similar
> processes going on
> other planetary bodies (indeed this might explain
> why mars still appears
> to have volcanism when it shouldn't really have, for
> it's size?). 
> 
> My question:
> 
> Would we not expect to find iron meteorites with
> nuclear reaction
> by-products or even higher than normal un-reacted
> radioisotope
> concentrations - if this were feasible? 
> 
> Or is it a case of Asteroids being too small to
> differentiate enough for
> the heavier elements to collect in sufficient
> quantities? 
> 
> Maybe we just haven't had a sample of 'inner core'
> yet, and somewhere
> out there are chunks of natural reactor!! 
> 
> Best,
> Mark Ford
> 
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AW: [meteorite-list] Dronino

[Jörn Koblitz]

Hi list,

When I looked at the Dronino pictures with the etched surface, I instantly thought of 
Tishomingo, which is a high-Ni iron with martensite, a low-temperature shock-induced 
lattice transformation phase out of taenite, well known for terrestrial steel - but in 
Tishomingo much better developed. The problem is that Dronino got much lower Ni 
content than Tishomingo, which makes it difficult to explain martensitic 
transformation, if the meteoroid did not experienced some violent and rather exotic 
thermal and shock history. On the other hand, a martensite could explain the finiding 
by Marcin, that his pieces doesn't show any pattern. Martensite transformation of 
supercooled taenite can be triggered by shock waves running through the body. So, it 
may only be locally present (somehow like the shock darkening of some ordinary 
chondrites)!

The description given in the Meteoritical Bulletin ("the Dronino iron is an ataxite 
containing sulfide inclusions (~10 vol.%) and consisting of kamacite (7.0±0.5 wt% Ni 
and 0.75 wt% Co) and rare taenite (26.5±0.5 wt% Ni and 0.35 wt% Co) as elongated 
precipitates (1-3 ?m in size) which form linear and banded textures...") also rises a 
question: how can taentite PECIPITATES from kamacite? Usually, it is the other side 
round: kamacite precipitates from taenite (the high-temperature phase of iron) when 
the meteorite parent body slowely cooled down. The precipitated kamacite grow from 
tiny lamellae to larger bands and the taenite lamellae found in such irons are just 
remains of the originally monocrystalline taenite body.

Best regards,
Jörn

___
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MetBase Editor
The MetBase Library of Meteoritics and Planetary Sciences
Benquestrasse 27
D-28209 Bremen, Germany
phone: +49 421 24 100 24
fax: +49 421 168 2799
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
___




> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Martin Altmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Montag, 9. August 2004 02:30
> An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Dronino is an (ungrouped) ataxite
> 
> 
> Hi list and Bernd,
> 
> the camacite needles or spindles in Taza are very sharp 
> defined and come out
> very contrastful after etching. If there are a lot of 
> spindles, they are
> often so oriented, that they indeed are imitating a kind of a
> "Widmannstättern pattern", but not very similar to Dronino.
> 
> IVA - that's a good point!!
> Take a look again on that slice on ebay. One can clearly see, 
> that it's
> composed of three large crystals, wherein the orientation of 
> the "pattern"
> shows different orientation - almost the complete left half, 
> then upper part
> to the right and bottom right -
> seperated well visible by the dark clefts.
> 
> Immediately when I saw this slice, Gibeon came in my mind, 
> where also such
> composed slices can be found.
> (Take f.e. a look in your Buehler, page 120).
> 
> Dronino is a real uncommon iron!!
> 
> Martin,
> 
> (also from Southern Germany with a perfect sky for catching 
> perseids. Hope
> it will last until the maximum)
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 11:45 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Dronino is an (ungrouped) ataxite
> 
> 
> > Marcin wrote:
> >
> > > Pattern is strange. Only idea I just have then was, that 
> this looks
> strange
> > > like Taza. Of course this is not the same, but this looks the same
> strange
> > > like Taza pattern, I not know any other similar pattern like from
> Dronino.
> >
> > Hi List,
> >
> > The Meteoritical Bulletin, No. 88 can shed some light on 
> this Taza-like
> structure.
> > What you are looking at is probably taenite present as elongated
> precipitates
> > with sulfide inclusions rounded and elongated along the banding.
> >
> > But one thing is for sure: it is a very exotic iron 
> meteorite because, on
> the one
> > hand, it is closely related to IVA irons, whereas, on the 
> other, its low
> Au and Ga
> > contents clearly distinguish the Dronino element pattern 
> from that of any
> known
> > iron meteorite group.
> >
> > __
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> 
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RE: [meteorite-list] Earths core

[mark ford]

Hi,

Well, Half life can't change (otherwise the universe would be in a real mess) but who 
knows what effect very very high pressure, heat and gravitational force would have on 
a fission reaction, maybe at the earths core, a nuclear reaction happens at an 
accelerated rate due to the much higher pressures (i.e the atoms are forced much 
closer together, and there would be total neutron absorbtion) or maybe even hot 
fusion? This would result in the radioisotopes transmuting into Lead and Iron etc a 
lot faster than they would under natural decay.

Since there are chunks of Natural Uranium over the earths surface, I suppose you would 
expect a correspondingly large amount nearer to the core? 
Likewise there must be large differentiated asteroids out there that have 
concentrations of heavier elements, (but due to gravitation as opposed to volcanic or 
water based action that brought them to the Earths surface)


Mark Ford






-Original Message-
From: drtanuki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 09 August 2004 10:53
To: mark ford; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Earths core

Dear Mark and List,
  Perhaps the half-life has somehow been changed  (warped) so that all 
radioactivity has nearly become nil.  Conceived physics is not to this point of 
understanding yet.  Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo
 
Einstein is no longer with us to help explain; anyway someone will some
day understand.  BTW, good question.questions lead to answers.  If there are 
really any scientists on this list, please give it a thought!
Alpha=Omega.DDR
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[meteorite-list] Earths core

[mark ford]

Hi.

Just been reading an interesting article in 'New scientist' (this
weeks).

It is about the centre of the Earth (i.e the core) , apparently there is
simply  far too much heat to be explained by the conventional 'still
molten since it formed' theory (or from gravitation actions).

One theory that is being taken seriously is that fissile radioactive
elements (These being the heaviest elements)  would sink into the core
mixture) and start a nuclear chain reaction, so the extra heat could be
generated from nuclear processes. Scientists are looking for the tell
tale anti neutrino's that could indicate nuclear reactions going on.
They point out that natural nuclear reactors exist on earth already, in
area's where uranium is sufficiently concentrated in the rock, it has
undergone fission.

If this where the case, there ought to be similar processes going on
other planetary bodies (indeed this might explain why mars still appears
to have volcanism when it shouldn't really have, for it's size?). 

My question:

Would we not expect to find iron meteorites with nuclear reaction
by-products or even higher than normal un-reacted radioisotope
concentrations - if this were feasible? 

Or is it a case of Asteroids being too small to differentiate enough for
the heavier elements to collect in sufficient quantities? 

Maybe we just haven't had a sample of 'inner core' yet, and somewhere
out there are chunks of natural reactor!! 

Best,
Mark Ford

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[meteorite-list] Hubble hit by instrument failure

[mark ford]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3545130.stm


Hubble hit by instrument failure

One of the four instruments on board the Hubble Space Telescope has
stopped working, US space agency Nasa has said. The exact source of the
problem is not known.

The STIS, or Space Telescope Imaging Spectrograph, was installed during
the second Hubble servicing mission in 1997 and was designed to work for
five years 

It was used to investigate black holes, to discover dim stars that
reveal clues to the age of the Universe and study the atmosphere of an
extrasolar planet. 

Engineers are currently trying to track down the source of the problem. 


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