Re: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch?
Hi, Abestos Hands! Yes, one can lightly, or gently, or for a short period, handle a 60°C - 140°F object, but the threshhold for cell death is 134°F if maintained for more than a very short time. Burns will not occur, but cells (dermal and deeper tissues) will die. One reason humans can briefly handle very hot objects is the protection provided by the evaporation of skin moisture which momentarily insulates the skin. When that fails the heat must penetrate the epidermis (dead cells anyway). Your know you've gone as far as you can go when, after touching a hot object, your skin is dry and sheds a white dust (burnt epidermis). To carry a heavy (and precious) object like the capsule at 140°F without haste or the last-minute loosening of grip requires protection. Not much, but some: Nomex gloves are more than enough (widely sold for $12 a pair under the moniker the Ove-Glove). Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch? Unbelievable! I recommend to train upcoming NASA-reentry-capsule-recoverers in a special program. To proof cost efficency, I'll could develope such a program for only 120.000bucks. The program is: Come on, little princes and pashas, 60°C - 140F, protective gloves???! What about you helping a little at home in the household? I stongly recommend dish washing. Girly NASA: 60° - I can touch it without problems. Martin, the housewife. - Original Message - From: Martin Horejsi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch? Hi Ron and All, I am wondering why the Stardust SRC might arrive to earth too hot to touch, yet the mantra for meteorites is they must be cold even though history is littered with witnesses claiming the stones and irons were, you guessed it, too hot to touch. Here is an excerpt from the Stardust press kit, page: 14-15: Following a normal entry, the capsule will be hand-carried to the helicopter for trans- port. The capsule will be warm; temperature of the heat shield could be as high as 60 Celsius (140 Fahrenheit), so handlers will be required to wear protective gloves. Cheers, Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] a new Quiz - part 3 - another hint
Béréba! Solution, please Ingo --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Von: Christian Anger [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] a new Quiz - part 3 - another hint Datum: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:14:28 +0100 Hi all, so here's part 3 of the new Quiz a new hint : BOTH are ACHONDRITES Cheers, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch? NEU: GMX Phone_Flat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Classifieds FREE Again!
So THAT's what that stuff is on my toast in the morning! Gary http://www.meteorite-dealers.com On 18 Jan 2006 at 20:10, Paul Harris wrote: Helps keep the moisture out of your specimens and bring back the natural fusion crust look :-) Paul At 12:30 PM 1/18/2006, you wrote: Darn - and just when I needed a toaster too... :) Gary On 18 Jan 2006 at 10:03, Paul Harris wrote: Dear List, I will be moderating the classifieds before they are posted so I've changed them back to free status. This is much easier for you than having to remember a coupon code to use. The only drawback is that your ad will not post immediately and you will no longer have the option to buy TVs and Toasters... Thank you! Paul ** Paul Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Meteorite Exchange, Inc. http://www.meteorite.com MeteoriteTimes.com http://www.MeteoriteTimes.com Post Office Box 7000-455, Redondo Beach, CA 90277 USA *** __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Birthday' AD
Hello Guys Thought I'd let you know it was my birthday too 18th January. Tim Hello List, Hope you'll understand my wanting to send out this email, as this date is a rather special one in our family. First, it's the birthday for one of our two boys. And more-meteorite-list-relatedly, it's the one year anniversary of our discovery of the Lunar meteorite, Dhofar 1180. Yes sir, Jan. the 18th is a definite favorite around this joint! And now for the Ad part of the mail. IF you would like to see pics of some of the available slices of 1180, here is the link: http://www.portalesvalleymeteorites.com/Lunar.htm ( The 1.183g piece sold recently and I haven't had the chance to take it off the site. Sorry.) Thanks for reading this from a proud papa. Best wishes, Robert Woolard __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dronino Preservation
Hello Bernd, Marcin and all, I, too have had problems with Dronino until I used Steve Schoner's NaOH method. I left my slice in solution in a jar for two weeks. Every so often I'd pick up the jar and swirl the contents around to keep the chemicals mixed and monitor the process . The solution gradually became as dark as maple syrup as rust was dissolved. Then I removed the slice, washed it in distilled water (the lye makes the pieces very slippery.) and baked it in the oven for an hour at around 200 degrees. I still keep my Dronino with dessicant but I have not seen a speck of rust since this treatment. Marcin, you asked about dissolving the lye. I fill the jar halfway with regular isopropyl alcohol (off-the-shelf drugstore variety) which contains water. Then I add about 5 tablespoons of lye (Red Devil brand here in the U.S.) and stir and stir. It takes a while for the lye to dissolve in the alcohol. While this is happening you get an interesting exothermic chemical reaction and the jar warms up. Anyway, this is the only thing that's worked for really stubborn irons. Best to all, Bob Subject: [meteorite-list] Dronino Preservation Stefan wrote: Just watching the slow disintegration of my little 63g Dronino individual. Not the prettiest way of losing weight...Any chance of preserving it from total crumbleation? Matteo responded: Dronino its a horrible rust meteorite, for the moment the 2th only after Campo del Cielo. Don't forget Nantan...another rust bucket. I had a nice Nantan individual that I purchased at a mineral show in Ulm (Germany) in 1999. About two years later it had rusted and crumbled almost beyond recognition. Morasko can also be very, very prone to rusting. My little piece from ... looks jet-black as if HCL had been poured over a lump of sugar :-( Luckily I was careful enough because I bought only a small 12-gram endcut which I observed rusting away in spite of the silica gel I used to protect it. Dronino is a very difficult candidate because of its large amount of sulfides (about 10vol%!). Moreover, its sulfide nodules are usually surrounded by Fe hydroxides, ... a fateful combination with regard to hard-to-stop rusting :-( Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dronino Preservation
I'm thinking that a preservation section of my website might be useful. Break it down by type and even fall by fall. I would like the permission of anyone who has posted on this subject to use their credited info as content. Can do? If yes, can you resend your posts to me as I have not kept them all. Gotta get lighter on the old delete key. :) And if you have specific preservation info or processes you have not posted I would like to include whatever you wish to share. Send to my private email [EMAIL PROTECTED] dealers.com Gary http://www.meteorite-dealers.com On 19 Jan 2006 at 8:28, Bob King wrote: Hello Bernd, Marcin and all, I, too have had problems with Dronino until I used Steve Schoner's NaOH method. I left my slice in solution in a jar for two weeks. Every so often I'd pick up the jar and swirl the contents around to keep the chemicals mixed and monitor the process . The solution gradually became as dark as maple syrup as rust was dissolved. Then I removed the slice, washed it in distilled water (the lye makes the pieces very slippery.) and baked it in the oven for an hour at around 200 degrees. I still keep my Dronino with dessicant but I have not seen a speck of rust since this treatment. Marcin, you asked about dissolving the lye. I fill the jar halfway with regular isopropyl alcohol (off-the-shelf drugstore variety) which contains water. Then I add about 5 tablespoons of lye (Red Devil brand here in the U.S.) and stir and stir. It takes a while for the lye to dissolve in the alcohol. While this is happening you get an interesting exothermic chemical reaction and the jar warms up. Anyway, this is the only thing that's worked for really stubborn irons. Best to all, Bob Subject: [meteorite-list] Dronino Preservation Stefan wrote: Just watching the slow disintegration of my little 63g Dronino individual. Not the prettiest way of losing weight...Any chance of preserving it from total crumbleation? Matteo responded: Dronino its a horrible rust meteorite, for the moment the 2th only after Campo del Cielo. Don't forget Nantan...another rust bucket. I had a nice Nantan individual that I purchased at a mineral show in Ulm (Germany) in 1999. About two years later it had rusted and crumbled almost beyond recognition. Morasko can also be very, very prone to rusting. My little piece from ... looks jet-black as if HCL had been poured over a lump of sugar :-( Luckily I was careful enough because I bought only a small 12-gram endcut which I observed rusting away in spite of the silica gel I used to protect it. Dronino is a very difficult candidate because of its large amount of sulfides (about 10vol%!). Moreover, its sulfide nodules are usually surrounded by Fe hydroxides, ... a fateful combination with regard to hard-to-stop rusting :-( Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New Stardust Images
Hi, New Stardust images have been released: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/news/status/060118.html There is a press conference at 8AM PST today which will be shown on NASA TV. Ron Baalke __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] re: New Stardust Images / terrestrial contamination
Fascinating pictures thanks Ron. Must say I am surprised the people in the pictures with the areogel are not fully suited up with total enclosure suits, (they have just got overalls and token face masks), I would have assumed it would have been done like the lunar samples i.e in box/glove box under nitrogen or something... Or perhaps is it a case of, cross contamination is not a problem because the samples are imbedded deep within the aerogel? Naturally biological containment/paranoia is not an issue like it was with the Apollo samples but I would have thought another level of sterileness would be warranted on such small samples. Excuse my ignorance but I need to know! Best Mark Ford -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Baalke Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:45 PM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: [meteorite-list] New Stardust Images Hi, New Stardust images have been released: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/news/status/060118.html There is a press conference at 8AM PST today which will be shown on NASA TV. Ron Baalke __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] re: New Stardust Images / terrestrial contamination
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:32:30 -, mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Must say I am surprised the people in the pictures with the areogel are not fully suited up with total enclosure suits, (they have just got Speaking of people in the room with the probe, there was a short piece on my local news last night about a South Carolina middle-school science teacher who had been one of 30-something people chosen to fly to Huston and see the Stardust probe in person. There must have been some sort of essay-writing contest or something. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Stardust Images
I like this picture here: http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/141248main_jsc2006e01014_high.jpg The guy holding the aereogel has this Oh God oh God please don't let me drop it look on his face. And the guy behind the window has his hands clasped together like he's praying the same thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] New Stardust Images
Yes, very funny. It would be sooo funny to do a 'Norman Wisdom' type fake stumble/trip up!! Hey what about a caption competition! What about - 'Jello anyone?' Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:19 PM To: Ron Baalke Cc: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Stardust Images I like this picture here: http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/141248main_jsc2006e01014_high.jpg The guy holding the aereogel has this Oh God oh God please don't let me drop it look on his face. And the guy behind the window has his hands clasped together like he's praying the same thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] a new Quiz - part 4 - solution
Hi all, so here's part 4 of the new Quiz a new the solution: The first pic Quiz_05 is Melt-Breccia from the Paasselka Impact Structure (Finland) Of course an Achondrite, because it is no chondrite ;-) but looks very similar to an Eucrite like the second pic Quiz_06 which is DaG 443, a highly shocked brecciated polymict Eucrite. Some of you have been very good in guessing. Those have been Adam Hupe, James Tobin and Ingo Herkstroeter. Cheers, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] New Stardust Images/caption contest
Hi Mark All I like the caption idea. Here is mine; http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/141248main_jsc2006e01014_high.jpg 1 Needle in a haystack.I wish. 2 Wife said bring home milk and Hmmm...damn I can't remember. 3 Can't be as hard to find these as it was my stupid keys this morning. 4 Now where did I put my Dyson? Mike -- Mike Jensen Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 303-337-4361 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com -- Original message -- From: mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes, very funny. It would be sooo funny to do a 'Norman Wisdom' type fake stumble/trip up!! Hey what about a caption competition! What about - 'Jello anyone?' Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:19 PM To: Ron Baalke Cc: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Stardust Images I like this picture here: http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/141248main_jsc2006e01014_high.jpg The guy holding the aereogel has this Oh God oh God please don't let me drop it look on his face. And the guy behind the window has his hands clasped together like he's praying the same thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Stardust Images
I like this picture here: http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/141248main_jsc2006e01014_high.jpg The guy holding the aereogel has this Oh God oh God please don't let me drop it look on his face. And the guy behind the window has his hands clasped together like he's praying the same thing. That is Tom See carrying the aerogel tray, and he is being extra careful in carrying it. We cleared a path for him to the corner of the room to the storage cabinet, and Mike Zolensky held the door open. In the photo, Don Brownlee is on the right with the glasses, and the person standing behind Tom See is me. :-) Ron Baalke __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ron Baalke in Houston
Hi Ron, I was just going to point out to people that YOU were in this image, but you beat me to it. (Ron is the one in the upper right pointing his left index finger, not the guy in the glasses behind the glass praying that all goes well.) :-) --Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ron Baalke Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:36 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Stardust Images I like this picture here: http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/141248main_jsc2006e01014_high.jpg The guy holding the aereogel has this Oh God oh God please don't let me drop it look on his face. And the guy behind the window has his hands clasped together like he's praying the same thing. That is Tom See carrying the aerogel tray, and he is being extra careful in carrying it. We cleared a path for him to the corner of the room to the storage cabinet, and Mike Zolensky held the door open. In the photo, Don Brownlee is on the right with the glasses, and the person standing behind Tom See is me. :-) Ron Baalke __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New Horizons launched!
New Horizons is on its way to Pluto, Charon and beyond. --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: Ron Baalke in Houston
Hi Ron and List, Well, now I'm embarrassed! I've met Ron on a couple occasions and the guy in the bunny suit in the back left corner of the image looks quite different than I remember him. I thought for sure I'd be able to recognize him -- even with most of his face covered -- but apparently not. In my mind's eye, the guy outside the clean room that I pegged as Ron looks more like him than Ron himself INSIDE the clean room! They say with age, memory is the first thing to go... :-( --Rob -Original Message- From: Matson, Robert Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:45 AM To: 'Ron Baalke'; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Ron Baalke in Houston Hi Ron, I was just going to point out to people that YOU were in this image, but you beat me to it. (Ron is the one in the upper right pointing his left index finger, not the guy in the glasses behind the glass praying that all goes well.) :-) --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Why is this so clean?
Hi List, Why is this Sikhote so clean and shiny looking? Was the fusion crust brushed or buffed away? I love the look, but wonder if such a piece would need a coating to remain so pristine looking. http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2004/January/sa475.jpg Gary Foote http://www.meteorite-dealers.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Why is this so clean?
That was my specimen. It is merely reflection from the lights when I took the photo. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: Gary K. Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Why is this so clean? Hi List, Why is this Sikhote so clean and shiny looking? Was the fusion crust brushed or buffed away? I love the look, but wonder if such a piece would need a coating to remain so pristine looking. http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2004/January/sa475.jpg Gary Foote http://www.meteorite-dealers.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re-2: [meteorite-list] Why is this so clean?
Gary wrote: I love the look, but wonder if such a piece would need a coating to remain so pristine looking. Jim responded: It is merely reflection from the lights when I took the photo. And if it comes from Jim Strope, you may be sure you've got top quality. No exaggeration, no kidding but the plain truth! Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] new CC
Hello All, as the list is rather quiet, I thought you might like to have a look at a new CC: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ Comments and guesses;-) welcome! Peter M. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Why is this so clean?
Thanks Jim. Its a beautiful piece. Gary On 19 Jan 2006 at 16:43, Jim Strope wrote: That was my specimen. It is merely reflection from the lights when I took the photo. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: Gary K. Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Why is this so clean? Hi List, Why is this Sikhote so clean and shiny looking? Was the fusion crust brushed or buffed away? I love the look, but wonder if such a piece would need a coating to remain so pristine looking. http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2004/January/sa475.jpg Gary Foote http://www.meteorite-dealers.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Why is this so clean?
I believe it. Some of the collections I've seen belonging to listers are just awesome. My own fledgling collection is more like a pocketful of pebbles by comparison. I do have prices on them, but they are WAY high. I guess I just don't want to sell any just yet. :) Gary http://www.meteorite-dealers.com On 19 Jan 2006 at 21:52, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary wrote: I love the look, but wonder if such a piece would need a coating to remain so pristine looking. Jim responded: It is merely reflection from the lights when I took the photo. And if it comes from Jim Strope, you may be sure you've got top quality. No exaggeration, no kidding but the plain truth! Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Why is this so clean?
Hello Gary, The only way you could get that type of quality was to pay the Russians $20,000 and somewhere in the pile these were being found there. Tim Heitz - Original Message - From: Gary K. Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:01 PM Subject: Re: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Why is this so clean? I believe it. Some of the collections I've seen belonging to listers are just awesome. My own fledgling collection is more like a pocketful of pebbles by comparison. I do have prices on them, but they are WAY high. I guess I just don't want to sell any just yet. :) Gary http://www.meteorite-dealers.com On 19 Jan 2006 at 21:52, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary wrote: I love the look, but wonder if such a piece would need a coating to remain so pristine looking. Jim responded: It is merely reflection from the lights when I took the photo. And if it comes from Jim Strope, you may be sure you've got top quality. No exaggeration, no kidding but the plain truth! Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Why is this so clean?
That must have been one heck of a pile of iron. Do you know what the future of more sikhote coming out of Russia is, or have they closed the door and what is out there is all there is now? Gary On 19 Jan 2006 at 16:29, Tim Heitz wrote: Hello Gary, The only way you could get that type of quality was to pay the Russians $20,000 and somewhere in the pile these were being found there. Tim Heitz - Original Message - From: Gary K. Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:01 PM Subject: Re: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Why is this so clean? I believe it. Some of the collections I've seen belonging to listers are just awesome. My own fledgling collection is more like a pocketful of pebbles by comparison. I do have prices on them, but they are WAY high. I guess I just don't want to sell any just yet. :) Gary http://www.meteorite-dealers.com On 19 Jan 2006 at 21:52, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary wrote: I love the look, but wonder if such a piece would need a coating to remain so pristine looking. Jim responded: It is merely reflection from the lights when I took the photo. And if it comes from Jim Strope, you may be sure you've got top quality. No exaggeration, no kidding but the plain truth! Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] new CC
Peter, Your NWA is beautiful and the CAI awesome All of the others shown on the page are magnificant specimens and I'm especially VERY impressed with your Gibeon, Vigrano, and Mezo Madaras. Excuse me while I drool all over my keyboard Dave - Original Message - From: Peter Marmet [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteoritenliste Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] new CC Hello All, as the list is rather quiet, I thought you might like to have a look at a new CC: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ Comments and guesses;-) welcome! Peter M. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.20/234 - Release Date: 1/18/2006 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] primm
Good evening list.It would seem kind of unusual not to have a piece of prim,Nevada in my collection.Considering I have 32 Nevada pieces.Anyway if anyone has a nice piece of prim they want to sell while I am in Tucson,please email me off list to see what I can do about acquiring a piece.Of all the Nevada meteorites,PRIM is probably the most acquirable. Steve Arnold, Chicago Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] article on search for a missing meteorite
Someone anonymous e-mailed me this link tonight through the e-mail this story link at the bottom. I have no idea who it was, or if it has been passed along to other list members, but here it is: http://www.mainstreetnewspapers.com/articles/2006/01/19/fincastle/news/news05.txt Seen an unusual black rock lying on a stone wall lately? By ANITA J. FIREBAUGH Somewhere in Botetourt or Craig County there may be a really big meteorite lying on a rock wall-at least that's where it was left according to the last documentation about its location 125 years ago. Found in Botetourt County in 1850, this hunk of metal/rock from space is missing, and specimens of the meteorite are difficult to locate. Botetourt County is a large area to cover, and in 1850 it was even bigger, because at the time it also encompassed what is now Craig County. So the meteorite could be anywhere in this area of Southwest Virginia. Wherever it is, at least one meteorite hunter wants to find it. Rick Yarrow of Florida contacted The Fincastle Herald recently to ask if anyone knew the meteorite's location. He said he was an amateur meteorite hunter and wanted to find what he called the Botetourt County meteorite. The meteorite is listed in a book, Catalogue of Meteorites, and noted in other official lists of named and recorded meteorite finds. Very small specimens are supposed to be at Arizona State University, the United States Natural Museum (USNM or the Smithsonian), and in Calcutta and Vienna, but the Botetourt meteorite itself apparently was very large. The USNM could not locate its specimen, and Linda Welxenbach, USNM collection manager for the division of meteorites, was unsure if it ever was in the collection. “We have pictures of the crystal structure of the meteorite but on the back it says the specimen is in Vienna,” she said. Her documentation on the meteorite shows the fragments were once part of a mineral collection bequeathed to the Smithsonian by C. U. Shepard, a 19th century professor at Amherst College in Massachusetts and noted mineral collector. In his papers, Shepard lists the Botetourt County, Virginia meteorite. In 1866, he wrote: “This iron was discovered more than fifteen years ago in a mass so ponderous that the finder, having attempted to transport it on horseback a number of miles to his house, was obliged to abandon the undertaking. He left it upon a stone wall by the road-side, after having (with the assistance of a negro who happened at the time to be passing with a hammer) detached two or three small angular fragments.” Shepard wrote that the finder gave the fragments to N. S. Manross, another Amherst College professor, who took them to Gottingen, Germany, for analysis. The fragments were determined to have a very unusual presence of nickel. Manross eventually gave one of the fragments and the information about its acquisition to Shepard. Shepard acquired all of the fragments after Manross died. Shepard described the fragments as “whiter than most irons Š fine granular like cast-steel.” Welxenbach said upon further study it appears the Botetourt County meteorite is similar to a 20-pound meteorite called Babb's Mill, found in 1842 in Greene County, Tenn. and theorized the rocks may be from the same meteor or could even be the same meteorite. It is not unusual for meteorites to be found from the same fall, as such an event is called, said John Goss, Botetourt County's master astronomer. Goss said a large meteor falling from the sky can break apart. A matter of seconds can separate the rock masses over hundreds of miles. “They do spread out over the ground and could go over many miles,” Goss said. Meteorite study was well under way in 1850, so a knowledgeable person could have realized the rock was significant and sought out a scientist, Goss said. Mineral testing was available back then. Yarrow, the meteor hunter, said the rock, if the size is as significant as suggested by the notations of requiring a horse to move it, could bring a pretty penny if the owner is inclined to sell it. Goss said the documentation implies the meteorite weighed several hundred pounds. He said one indication of a meteorite is an “out of place rock. If you're in an area with primarily sandy soil and then there's a 400-pound iron rock, how did it get there? It must have fallen from the sky,” Goss said. Yarrow said the meteorite's iron content makes it a unique meteorite. He believes the meteorite would be black and pitted. “It's going to be such an unusual stone, it'll stick out like a sore thumb,” Yarrow said. Online, meteorite fragments range in price from less than $100 to $30,000 for a sliver, depending on the meteorite and its characteristics. Yarrow said he collects meteorites for fun, but others earn their living hunting for such stones. Meteorite hunters have a varied reputation, depending on point of view. Goss called them “Indiana Jones” types who seek
Re: [meteorite-list] article on search for a missing meteorite
I got a copy of this in my private email this morning. Thought it odd and deleted it. Then this report that you got one too, and now one directly to the list. Someone is working hard to raise interest in a 'maybeorite' in hopes of what I can't imagine. Unless they already have found it and are trying to raise the legend factor for more $$$. Gary http://www.meteorite-dealers.com On 19 Jan 2006 at 20:44, Darren Garrison wrote: Someone anonymous e-mailed me this link tonight through the e-mail this story link at the bottom. I have no idea who it was, or if it has been passed along to other list members, but here it is: http://www.mainstreetnewspapers.com/articles/2006/01/19/fincastle/news/news05.txt Seen an unusual black rock lying on a stone wall lately? By ANITA J. FIREBAUGH Somewhere in Botetourt or Craig County there may be a really big meteorite lying on a rock wall-at least that's where it was left according to the last documentation about its location 125 years ago. Found in Botetourt County in 1850, this hunk of metal/rock from space is missing, and specimens of the meteorite are difficult to locate. Botetourt County is a large area to cover, and in 1850 it was even bigger, because at the time it also encompassed what is now Craig County. So the meteorite could be anywhere in this area of Southwest Virginia. Wherever it is, at least one meteorite hunter wants to find it. Rick Yarrow of Florida contacted The Fincastle Herald recently to ask if anyone knew the meteorite's location. He said he was an amateur meteorite hunter and wanted to find what he called the Botetourt County meteorite. The meteorite is listed in a book, Catalogue of Meteorites, and noted in other official lists of named and recorded meteorite finds. Very small specimens are supposed to be at Arizona State University, the United States Natural Museum (USNM or the Smithsonian), and in Calcutta and Vienna, but the Botetourt meteorite itself apparently was very large. The USNM could not locate its specimen, and Linda Welxenbach, USNM collection manager for the division of meteorites, was unsure if it ever was in the collection. âWe have pictures of the crystal structure of the meteorite but on the back it says the specimen is in Vienna,â she said. Her documentation on the meteorite shows the fragments were once part of a mineral collection bequeathed to the Smithsonian by C. U. Shepard, a 19th century professor at Amherst College in Massachusetts and noted mineral collector. In his papers, Shepard lists the Botetourt County, Virginia meteorite. In 1866, he wrote: âThis iron was discovered more than fifteen years ago in a mass so ponderous that the finder, having attempted to transport it on horseback a number of miles to his house, was obliged to abandon the undertaking. He left it upon a stone wall by the road-side, after having (with the assistance of a negro who happened at the time to be passing with a hammer) detached two or three small angular fragments.â Shepard wrote that the finder gave the fragments to N. S. Manross, another Amherst College professor, who took them to Gottingen, Germany, for analysis. The fragments were determined to have a very unusual presence of nickel. Manross eventually gave one of the fragments and the information about its acquisition to Shepard. Shepard acquired all of the fragments after Manross died. Shepard described the fragments as âwhiter than most irons Å fine granular like cast-steel.â Welxenbach said upon further study it appears the Botetourt County meteorite is similar to a 20-pound meteorite called Babb's Mill, found in 1842 in Greene County, Tenn. and theorized the rocks may be from the same meteor or could even be the same meteorite. It is not unusual for meteorites to be found from the same fall, as such an event is called, said John Goss, Botetourt County's master astronomer. Goss said a large meteor falling from the sky can break apart. A matter of seconds can separate the rock masses over hundreds of miles. âThey do spread out over the ground and could go over many miles,â Goss said. Meteorite study was well under way in 1850, so a knowledgeable person could have realized the rock was significant and sought out a scientist, Goss said. Mineral testing was available back then. Yarrow, the meteor hunter, said the rock, if the size is as significant as suggested by the notations of requiring a horse to move it, could bring a pretty penny if the owner is inclined to sell it. Goss said the documentation implies the meteorite weighed several hundred pounds. He said one indication of a meteorite is an âout of place rock. If you're in an area with primarily sandy soil and then there's a 400-pound iron rock, how did it get there? It must have fallen from the sky,â Goss said. Yarrow said the
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Why would that be misleading? Wouldn't Main Mass of DagXXX paired to Dag476 be acceptable? - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:20 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass Dear List, I noticed some dealers and collectors are calling pairings that are smaller than the largest piece of a pairing series the Main Mass. An example would be if an 8 kilogram Martian meteorite was called DAG 476. Then somebody comes up with a smaller 1 kilogram meteorite named DAG XXX which was found to paired to DAG 476. Then the dealer sells the 1 Kilogram DAG XXX as a Main Mass. I think this practice is misleading and dishonest. I think the term Secondary Largest Mass may be more appropriate. What do you think? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Hi Bob and List, From what I gathered from every book on the subject, there can only be one Main Mass. Take Care, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
This is simple, the main mass of a meteorite is the largest surviving piece. Since the Nomcom wants NWA type meteorites to get separate numbers, then if you have a separate #, then you can theoretically have a main mass of pairings. I wont sell mine that way, or buy them that way, but you cant have it both ways, if you want separate numbers, then you can have separate main masses. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass Hi Bob and List, From what I gathered from every book on the subject, there can only be one Main Mass. Take Care, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
This topic comes up every now and then and nobody will ever agree on what is a proper term but my opinion is that it should be used even though everybody knows that there are bigger pieces from the same fall. Like it or not (And this was originally done as a best case scenario given the circumstances) the meteoritical society created a name for each individual (Or group) of rocks. In addition to the meteoritical society, collectors and dealers for the most part pretty much 100% accepted (If only grudgingly) this way of doing things. At least nobody has put up any serious arguement or better idea for this policy or better way of doing things. In addition several prominant individuals have in the past put up extreme pressure and complained in a major way when somebody was using their NWA number for an obviously paired stone but not what was a part of the actual stone reported to the meteoritical society. And while there may have been debate about this if my memory serves me right the general consensus (At least among list members who took part in the discussion) generally agreed that it was not appropriate to hijack somebody elses number. Maybe not to the point of fraud, but at least a poor business practise. This means that everybody agrees that NWA489 and NWA476 are different stones and it would therfore be inappropriate to sell a piece of NWA489 as NWA476 - even though scientific analysis has determined them to be one and the same (Although the fact that they are from the same strewnfield and identical classification says that to). As a result to say that there can only be one piece from the strewnfield that can properly be called a main mass would mean that NWA489 would not have a main mass. However, there is a biggest piece of NWA489. Not the biggest known piece from the fall but a biggest piece of what can legitimately be called NWA489. I dont like the term secondary main mass as if gives the impression that one piece is somehow inferior to another piece (Which would get fights breaking out saying My meteorites are better than your meteorites). Maybe the term Desert main mass should be coined as it would make things different from non desert falls - which has made a major change in the hobby. But for these reasons I believe every named meteorites should have a biggest piece Or, by defination,a Main mass) My thoughts anyway Sincerely DEAN --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List, I noticed some dealers and collectors are calling pairings that are smaller than the largest piece of a pairing series the Main Mass. An example would be if an 8 kilogram Martian meteorite was called DAG 476. Then somebody comes up with a smaller 1 kilogram meteorite named DAG XXX which was found to paired to DAG 476. Then the dealer sells the 1 Kilogram DAG XXX as a Main Mass. I think this practice is misleading and dishonest. I think the term Secondary Largest Mass may be more appropriate. What do you think? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Hi Again, If I followed this logic, I would have 48 planetary Main Masses. Yeah for me! In reality, we have less than a dozen as far as I am concerned. I will stick to the what I believe are the rules, the largest piece in a known pairing series is the only Main Mass. Take Care, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch?
Hi All, Yesterday I asked Don Brownlee about the sample return capsule compared to a meteorite, and he thinks some meteorites arrive on earth warm or hot to the touch, although admitting there is an amount of folklore in the old stories. However the Stardust SRC was not hot, nor even warm when it was recovered in Utah. Today I checked with Karen McNamara, the curation engineer who was one of the first onsight at the capsule's recovery and she told me that the surface temperature of the capsule taken with an infrared gun at the time of recovery was only 30 degrees F, about the same as the air. More food for thought. Or not. Martin PS: Hey Adam- Don showed me a pic on his computer of the huge moon and mars rocks you showed them at your meeting. Pretty cool, and pretty impressive. On 1/19/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Abestos Hands! Yes, one can lightly, or gently, or for a short period, handle a 60°C - 140°F object, but the threshhold for cell death is 134°F if maintained for more than a very short time. Burns will not occur, but cells (dermal and deeper tissues) will die. One reason humans can briefly handle very hot objects is the protection provided by the evaporation of skin moisture which momentarily insulates the skin. When that fails the heat must penetrate the epidermis (dead cells anyway). Your know you've gone as far as you can go when, after touching a hot object, your skin is dry and sheds a white dust (burnt epidermis). To carry a heavy (and precious) object like the capsule at 140°F without haste or the last-minute loosening of grip requires protection. Not much, but some: Nomex gloves are more than enough (widely sold for $12 a pair under the moniker the Ove-Glove). Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch? Unbelievable! I recommend to train upcoming NASA-reentry-capsule-recoverers in a special program. To proof cost efficency, I'll could develope such a program for only 120.000bucks. The program is: Come on, little princes and pashas, 60°C - 140F, protective gloves???! What about you helping a little at home in the household? I stongly recommend dish washing. Girly NASA: 60° - I can touch it without problems. Martin, the housewife. - Original Message - From: Martin Horejsi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch? Hi Ron and All, I am wondering why the Stardust SRC might arrive to earth too hot to touch, yet the mantra for meteorites is they must be cold even though history is littered with witnesses claiming the stones and irons were, you guessed it, too hot to touch. Here is an excerpt from the Stardust press kit, page: 14-15: Following a normal entry, the capsule will be hand-carried to the helicopter for trans- port. The capsule will be warm; temperature of the heat shield could be as high as 60 Celsius (140 Fahrenheit), so handlers will be required to wear protective gloves. Cheers, Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch?
Hi Martin and List, That picture was taken at the Asteroid Cafe in Seattle where we take visitors anytime they come into town. As I said before, Dr. Don Brownlee is a down-to-Earth type of person who will gladly answer questions. I don't know how he could contain his excitement over the successful Stardust mission. I can hardly wait to hear what has been found in the capsule. Take Care, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Time Lapse Movies of Stardust Cleanroom Now Available
Hello, Time lapse movies of the JSC cleanroom are now available: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/photo/webcam_jsc.html Enjoy! Ron Baalke __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Adam this has got to be one of the stupidest things you've posted to this list. The NWA numbering system really isn't all that complicated. Just to help you out Adam, each and every NWA numbered meteorite has a MAIN MASS. For you, Adam that would mean the B-i-g-g-e-s-t piece. Maybe you have heard of a publication called the 'Meteoritical Bulletin'? Here's an excerpt from MB89 to help clarify things for you. Pay particular attention to the last three words. Northwest Africa 2373 Northwest Africa Purchased 2004 August Martian (olivine-phyric shergottite) Several small stones that weigh 18.1 g were purchased in Erfoud Morocco. They are yellow brown with desert ablation/varnish surface only, no fusion crust. Description and classification (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU): olivine phenocrysts (1.25 mm in longest dimension) set in a fine-grained groundmass (0.1 mm) of pigeonite, maskelynite, chromite, Ti-magnetite, augite, chlorapatite and sulphide. Olivine has cores of Fa30.7 (FeO/MnO = 51.9), rims of Fa50.3 (FeO/MnO = 53.3) and contain micron to submicron inclusions of chromite, glass, and barite. One large olivine grain, which may be a xenocryst, is different from the rest with a core of Fa29.1 (FeO/MnO = 43) and more abundant tiny inclusions. The wide (0.2 to 0.4 mm), inclusion-free mantle on this grain is Fa32.3 (FeO/MnO = 39.2). Pigeonite is zoned from Fs29.4Wo8.4 to Fs36.4Wo14.1 (FeO/MnO = 28); augite is Fs21.8Wo29.1. Maskelynite is slightly zoned with a compositional average of An52.1Or2.1. Chromite, cr# = 87, fe# = 90.4. Overall texture, mineral content and mineral compositions strongly suggest that this stone is paired with NWA 1068. The specimen is lightly weathered and moderately shocked. Specimens: type specimen, 3.7 g and one thin section, NAU; main mass, Birdsell. Now Adam are you suggesting that the Scientists that write these classifications, the Nom Com and the editors of the Meteoritical Bulletin are somehow misleading and dishonest? Kind regards -John --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List, I noticed some dealers and collectors are calling pairings that are smaller than the largest piece of a pairing series the Main Mass. An example would be if an 8 kilogram Martian meteorite was called DAG 476. Then somebody comes up with a smaller 1 kilogram meteorite named DAG XXX which was found to paired to DAG 476. Then the dealer sells the 1 Kilogram DAG XXX as a Main Mass. I think this practice is misleading and dishonest. I think the term Secondary Largest Mass may be more appropriate. What do you think? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Arizona Skies Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Well, you may not have 48 different planatery falls. However you do have 48 individually recogonized and somehow distinct stones. Lets say your NWA xxx and xxy are obvious paired stones and you know that and market it that way. It would be inappropriate (And argueably fraud) to sell a piece of xxx and use the xxy name when selling it. And there would probably be nasty accusations of poor business practises if somebody else with obviously paired xxa to sell a piece of that stone as your xxy. Everybody (At least most people and includes the meteoritical society) agrees that all 3 stones have a unique designation that identifies that stone. Therfore all 3 stones are different (If only on paper). So all 3 would have a main mass because the term Main mass simply refers to the largest piece of something. There would be a largest piece of xxx and a largest piece of xxy. And if xxy is bigger you still couldent call it the main mass of xxx. If this is not the case it would be perfectly Ok for somebody with an obvious paired stone to just sell something using somebody elses NWA number. The only reason people dont like doing this is because they want their stones to be unique. True, this whole idea sometimes gets out of hand and silly - good examples being the NWA869 meteorite classified dozens of times or the umpteen DAG CO3s (Where they all have different names and in some cases you even know where in the strewnfield the stone was found). But the scenario that everybody in the meteorite community accepts is that each named stone is unique. That by defination gives every stone a main mass as every identified and registered rock has a certain size and one piece (Which can be the whole stone) is the biggest piece of something that no other stone can use the name of. Sincerely DEAN --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Again, If I followed this logic, I would have 48 planetary Main Masses. Yeah for me! In reality, we have less than a dozen as far as I am concerned. I will stick to the what I believe are the rules, the largest piece in a known pairing series is the only Main Mass. Take Care, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Hi John and List, I do not agree that there can be more than a single Main Mass per fall. That is liking saying two Main Masses came out of the Brenham strewnfield. I don't think Steve Arnold would like that. Take Care, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Time Lapse Movies of Stardust Cleanroom Now Available
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:18:15 -0800 (PST), Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Time lapse movies of the JSC cleanroom are now available: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/photo/webcam_jsc.html As exciting as the Stardust mission is, this must be one of the most boring video clips ever made by man: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/anim/jsc060116.mpg __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
I agree with what Mike had to say about not using the term Main Mass to describe a pairing of smaller size, it seems too misleading to me. Scientist have made a good effort with the pairing issues. One just has to look at the following sites to see this is so: http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/meteorites/moon_meteorites_list.html http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/ Not only that, pairings are mentioned in abstracts because most scientists use this information and believe it is valid data. I think a better term must be available, mainly in the interest of collectors. I would never claim to have 42 planetary main masses even though I may have the same number of nomenclature assignments. To do so would be fraudulent in my opinion. Take Care, Adam - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass Hola Adam, Mike, Dean, Bob, and anyone else on this subject, You guys are all to be commended on your roles in the recovery of these specimens. The real question I see is not how many main masses you have -but whether you have any main masses at all- from these dense localities: The system is quite arbitrary no matter how you attribute subjective/random pairings. This shouldn't have any negative connotation associated with it. I posted something similar to this about a year or two ago in this forum. You all definitely have a lot of the world's biggest pieces in your possessions, none of you massive dealers needs any bragging rights from a viewpoint down here in the trenches, its not as if these were Nobel prizes, nor is it comparable in 99% of the cases to Steve Arnold's gig. This is unarguably an artificially manufactured situation in the dense collection areas. Besides Adam's, Mike's response was pretty straightforward, too, and Dean's logic very intelligent as well, as well as the rest...it really sounds much less scientific and more like discussion among competing cereal companies on who can label the food as Heart Healthy and who can't. I'd go retro and just ask Where's the Beef? while we watch y'all in this potentially high-steaks and breadwinning issue. So as long as we understand this is more of a Cola Wars' type question than a meaningful scientific question, it's interesting to hear all these arguments and occasionally add a peep or two in the shadow of the giants. Maybe I'm wrong, but we've seen this discussion in many presentations before. That's great, as long as everyone agrees that this is a commercial and not a scientific issue. It actually looks like you all do, in my (very) humble perception...Saludos, Doug PS a known pairing series can be open to interpretation, and are not exhaustive analyses, right? The science doesn't feel the need to address this issue, as far as I gather... In a message dated 1/19/2006 10:57:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I followed this logic, I would have 48 planetary Main Masses. Yeah for me! In reality, we have less than a dozen as far as I am concerned. I will stick to the what I believe are the rules, the largest piece in a known pairing series is the only Main Mass. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Hola John, You bring up a good point! The problem I see is that I do not believe the term Main Mass in the listings has been truly a peer reviewed subject of scientific interest in most cases, but rather a rubber stamp that has gone unstudied for the reason of having no true scientific value in the majority of cases. So while you are right in the sense supported by literature, I may be mistaken, but I do not think the science has ever peer reviewed this subject. That would be Adam's point perhaps. The way the NWA system was piggybacked upon the locality named system was not a peer reviewed scientific method, just a convention adopted by a committee for the not especially peer reviewed appendix of MAPS. The scientific method and the ability of other labs to repeat is severly restricted due to the distribution of material. There are several cases of meteorites which are analyzed by two separate labs and classified differently. But the original classification is not so flexible as far as I can tell as would be in a completely peer reviewed process. Finally, you say every NWA numbered meteorite. I disagree with that. It is a contradiction in terms to me, though normally acceptable to express ourselves. However when we say this we should recognize that meteorite does not refer to a particular fall, but rather to a bag of similar rocks picked up on a Sunday by someone before the wind got too strong and buried everything. I think you're a little hard on Adam this time! Saludos, Doug In a message dated 1/19/2006 11:33:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just to help you out Adam, each and every NWA numbered meteorite has a MAIN MASS. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Time Lapse Movies of Stardust Cleanroom Now
Hello, Time lapse movies of the JSC cleanroom are now available: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/photo/webcam_jsc.html As exciting as the Stardust mission is, this must be one of the most boring video clips ever made by man: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/anim/jsc060116.mpg The one from the day before was even more boring - there was no activity at all. I didn't even bother to put it on the website. Ron __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Time Lapse Movies of Stardust Cleanroom Now
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:10:49 -0800 (PST), Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/anim/jsc060116.mpg The one from the day before was even more boring - there was no activity at all. I didn't even bother to put it on the website. No offense was meant, of course, to your efforts. But the main event in that one was when that cart popped into the middle of the room for a few frames! That, and speculating as to what that little rectangular object was that moved around from the table to a chair a time or two (cassette recorder?). __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorites smell good ...mmm
Hello all, A lot of us like to bring meteorites to classes we occasionally visit with or teach. I had this opportunity earlier this week and just for fun brought a sheet of 220 grit sandpaper and a slice of NWA 869 for the kids to do a scratch and sniff. I asked them to grind away a little bit on the sandpaper and then take a whiff of meteorite. Most of them compared the odor to sulfur or matches. One 6th grader was pretty excited: It smells like matches. I like the smell of matches. I explained that sometimes freshly fallen meteorites have a sulfurous smell. Though I wasn't positively certain, I'm assuming the odor is from the sulfur in troilite? Anyway, it was fun to do some hands on with the asteroid bits. Happy sniffing! Bob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Adam please feel free to tell the members of the Nom. Com., Ted Bunch, Tony Irving and all of the other scientists that have written and published their NWA classifications using the term main mass that you don't agree with the way they are doing things, and that you feel that they are being misleading and dishonest as you put it in your previous post. For our part, we think they are making the best of a complicated situation, and as long as people understand the NWA numbering system there really is no problem with the way it is currently used. As most of us are aware, NWA numbered meteorites are not in any way analogous to meteorites coming out of a well characterized strewn field-that's precisely why they are given NWA numbers. Those that understand the NWA numbering system also understand that the main mass of one NWA numbered group may or may not be the 'biggest piece' of the presumed fall. In fact, the use of the term 'main mass' in respect to NWA meteorites has nothing to do with the 'fall' per se, but rather is the term used to refer to the largest piece in a group of meteorites assigned a particular NWA number. Even the pairing of meteorites does not, and can not guarantee that they are part of the same fall. This is especially true in the case of northwest Africa where meteorites are collected over a vast area with little or no record of their coordinates. Since it will never be known whether paired NWAs are actually part of the same fall or not, it seems that the term main mass is appropriate unless one can unambiguously state with complete certainty that two NWA numbers are from the same fall. This can not be done without a precise record of coordinates. In our opinion this discussion over the use of main mass is just a matter semantics, and has nothing to do with science what-so-ever. That said we can probably bring this thread to an end. Cheers -John --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi John and List, I do not agree that there can be more than a single Main Mass per fall. That is liking saying two Main Masses came out of the Brenham strewnfield. I don't think Steve Arnold would like that. Take Care, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Arizona Skies Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Dear Doug; Cereal wars LOLI prefer tastes great, less filling wars! I think the main mass issue is a product of the system in NWA's. I also think that main mass is a fluid issue. One could have had a main mass when it was the largest..for example the largest piece before Steve Arnold (IMB) located the current main mass and, yes, bless his karma, may he find an even larger main mass to replace his current one. NWA world is an amazing elephant in the room for any number of reasons and we all should elect to accept the issue of NWA's will be an elephant in the room. Always, and it may be different colors, and it may leave a main mass on those who stir it often. Didn't we debate this one before? Best, Dave F. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hola Adam, Mike, Dean, Bob, and anyone else on this subject, You guys are all to be commended on your roles in the recovery of these specimens. The real question I see is not how many main masses you have -but whether you have any main masses at all- from these dense localities: The system is quite arbitrary no matter how you attribute subjective/random pairings. This shouldn't have any negative connotation associated with it. I posted something similar to this about a year or two ago in this forum. You all definitely have a lot of the world's biggest pieces in your possessions, none of you massive dealers needs any bragging rights from a viewpoint down here in the trenches, its not as if these were Nobel prizes, nor is it comparable in 99% of the cases to Steve Arnold's gig. This is unarguably an artificially manufactured situation in the dense collection areas. Besides Adam's, Mike's response was pretty straightforward, too, and Dean's logic very intelligent as well, as well as the rest...it really sounds much less scientific and more like discussion among competing cereal companies on who can label the food as Heart Healthy and who can't. I'd go retro and just ask Where's the Beef? while we watch y'all in this potentially high-steaks and breadwinning issue. So as long as we understand this is more of a Cola Wars' type question than a meaningful scientific question, it's interesting to hear all these arguments and occasionally add a peep or two in the shadow of the giants. Maybe I'm wrong, but we've seen this discussion in many presentations before. That's great, as long as everyone agrees that this is a commercial and not a scientific issue. It actually looks like you all do, in my (very) humble perception...Saludos, Doug PS a known pairing series can be open to interpretation, and are not exhaustive analyses, right? The science doesn't feel the need to address this issue, as far as I gather... In a message dated 1/19/2006 10:57:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I followed this logic, I would have 48 planetary Main Masses. Yeah for me! In reality, we have less than a dozen as far as I am concerned. I will stick to the what I believe are the rules, the largest piece in a known pairing series is the only Main Mass. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Well adam, Tell us what you think should be done. The current way of doing things was put together by the meteoritical society after a lot of investigation - which included asking for input from the dealer community. I know for a fact that Jeff Grossman put a lot of effort into gathering as much info as possible and came up with a best case scenario. He asked any dealer involved at the time (Around 2000 when teh flood from morocco started but no names) to give input and suggestions. In fact it was a very fine example of getting everybody involved and making a best desision on what to do with NWA given the circumstances. Nobody has disagreed or came up with a better solution so maybe now you could outline for us all your better solution. (But dont try and come up with a term that makes some meetorites better than others on the basis of size). You have been complaining in the past that people used your numbers when selling meteorites because their stone was not the same as yours. But now you have now made a 180 degree turn and am argueing that they are in fact the same stones and should not be differentiated as everybody knows they are paired and so one of them cant have a main mass since (like imilac and sikhote alin) they are the same stone. Nobody (I shoudlent say nobody, but most anyway) are not claiming that their NWAs have no pairings. Most people dont dispute that. But it has been generally acepted (on this list anyway - especially by you in the past) that each number is specific, holy and that other people shouldent hijact those numbers when selling their meteorites if it never came from the exact sample(s) that was reported to the met society. I generally agree with that stance. Well, I dont disagree anyway. If I (Or you, john, farmer or anybody else) sells a customer the biggest piece of NWA xxb then they have the largest piece of NWA xxb. Largest piece = Main mass. xxc might be bigger and obviously from the same fall. However, nobody can claim that the customer doesnt have the largest piece of NWAxxb You cant have it both ways. They are either the same or they are different. And while they may not be chemically different, they are different as far as name and registration goes. Sincerely DEAN __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Hi John an List, I could not disagree with you more. Dr. Irving and Dr. Bunch both make pairing statements and are concerned about them. Stop putting words in my mouth as I have the utmost respect for the both of them. The only reason main mass is put at the end of the classifications is that it was carried over from an old Nom Com format before NWA nomenclature even existed. Have you even looked at their submission format? I do not think a scientist in the world would agree that the example you gave earlier represents a true Main Mass. The coordinates are well known for NWA 1068/1110 and your pairings to them. Pictures were taken in the field and published in Meteorite Magazine if you do not believe me. My brother Greg and I have both been to the so-called strewn-field. It is a 40' X 40' area filled with hundreds of fragments. We believe that the true Main Mass (NWA 1068) must have hit a hard surface and shattered on impact because of the close proximity of the fragments to one another. There will be a meeting in Tucson with a well-known committee person before the Peoples Auction to discuss subjects just like this so I am gathering a consensus. So far I have not hear what collectors think. I would hate to think I purchased a true Main Mass just to find out it was a new dealer definition and not the old published definition. Take Care, Adam - Original Message - From: Arizona Skies Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass Adam please feel free to tell the members of the Nom. Com., Ted Bunch, Tony Irving and all of the other scientists that have written and published their NWA classifications using the term main mass that you don't agree with the way they are doing things, and that you feel that they are being misleading and dishonest as you put it in your previous post. For our part, we think they are making the best of a complicated situation, and as long as people understand the NWA numbering system there really is no problem with the way it is currently used. As most of us are aware, NWA numbered meteorites are not in any way analogous to meteorites coming out of a well characterized strewn field-that's precisely why they are given NWA numbers. Those that understand the NWA numbering system also understand that the main mass of one NWA numbered group may or may not be the 'biggest piece' of the presumed fall. In fact, the use of the term 'main mass' in respect to NWA meteorites has nothing to do with the 'fall' per se, but rather is the term used to refer to the largest piece in a group of meteorites assigned a particular NWA number. Even the pairing of meteorites does not, and can not guarantee that they are part of the same fall. This is especially true in the case of northwest Africa where meteorites are collected over a vast area with little or no record of their coordinates. Since it will never be known whether paired NWAs are actually part of the same fall or not, it seems that the term main mass is appropriate unless one can unambiguously state with complete certainty that two NWA numbers are from the same fall. This can not be done without a precise record of coordinates. In our opinion this discussion over the use of main mass is just a matter semantics, and has nothing to do with science what-so-ever. That said we can probably bring this thread to an end. Cheers -John --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi John and List, I do not agree that there can be more than a single Main Mass per fall. That is liking saying two Main Masses came out of the Brenham strewnfield. I don't think Steve Arnold would like that. Take Care, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Arizona Skies Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] primm
its the 3th time you have ask the same meteoritestrange you not have, I have a over 20 gr. piece in my collection http://it.geocities.com/meteoriti20002/Primm.JPG Matteo --- Steve Arnold, Chicago!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Good evening list.It would seem kind of unusual not to have a piece of prim,Nevada in my collection.Considering I have 32 Nevada pieces.Anyway if anyone has a nice piece of prim they want to sell while I am in Tucson,please email me off list to see what I can do about acquiring a piece.Of all the Nevada meteorites,PRIM is probably the most acquirable. Steve Arnold, Chicago Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice: chiama da PC a telefono a tariffe esclusive http://it.messenger.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Main Mass and stardust
Hi Martin and list Just a thought , it took the recovery team almost 45 minutes to find and get close to the capsule . With the surface temp at 30 degrees and some good winds it probably cooled down considerable from moment of impact . Moment of impact might have been well over 120 degrees I think . Main mass Way back when I first wrote ARN's History of Meteorites Main Mass was the largest single specimen from a meteorite find or fall . Not the largest specimen after it had been cut up after being cut up all you might have is half or a fourth or whatever is left of the Main Mass . There is only one main mass to a Fall . Fall all the specimens that hit the ground as a single EVENT from the same original origin in space . No matter how many NWA or DAG etc etc. names are given to this Event there is only one main mass. In my mind where the society has really lost it giving separate numbers to the same Fall (event) of meteorites . Don't miss my new book coming soon . ARN's Guidelines to Meteorite Classification Thank for your time .Ken Regelman Astronomical Research Network http://www.meteorites4sale.net/ Hi All, Yesterday I asked Don Brownlee about the sample return capsule compared to a meteorite, and he thinks some meteorites arrive on earth warm or hot to the touch, although admitting there is an amount of folklore in the old stories. However the Stardust SRC was not hot, nor even warm when it was recovered in Utah. Today I checked with Karen McNamara, the curation engineer who was one of the first onsight at the capsule's recovery and she told me that the surface temperature of the capsule taken with an infrared gun at the time of recovery was only 30 degrees F, about the same as the air. More food for thought. Or not. Martin PS: Hey Adam- Don showed me a pic on his computer of the huge moon and mars rocks you showed them at your meeting. Pretty cool, and pretty impressive. On 1/19/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Abestos Hands! Yes, one can lightly, or gently, or for a short period, handle a 60°C - 140°F object, but the threshhold for cell death is 134°F if maintained for more than a very short time. Burns will not occur, but cells (dermal and deeper tissues) will die. One reason humans can briefly handle very hot objects is the protection provided by the evaporation of skin moisture which momentarily insulates the skin. When that fails the heat must penetrate the epidermis (dead cells anyway). Your know you've gone as far as you can go when, after touching a hot object, your skin is dry and sheds a white dust (burnt epidermis). To carry a heavy (and precious) object like the capsule at 140°F without haste or the last-minute loosening of grip requires protection. Not much, but some: Nomex gloves are more than enough (widely sold for $12 a pair under the moniker the Ove-Glove). Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch? Unbelievable! I recommend to train upcoming NASA-reentry-capsule-recoverers in a special program. To proof cost efficency, I'll could develope such a program for only 120.000bucks. The program is: Come on, little princes and pashas, 60°C - 140F, protective gloves???! What about you helping a little at home in the household? I stongly recommend dish washing. Girly NASA: 60° - I can touch it without problems. Martin, the housewife. - Original Message - From: Martin Horejsi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch? Hi Ron and All, I am wondering why the Stardust SRC might arrive to earth too hot to touch, yet the mantra for meteorites is they must be cold even though history is littered with witnesses claiming the stones and irons were, you guessed it, too hot to touch. Here is an excerpt from the Stardust press kit, page: 14-15: Following a normal entry, the capsule will be hand-carried to the helicopter for trans- port. The capsule will be warm; temperature of the heat shield could be as high as 60 Celsius (140 Fahrenheit), so handlers will be required to wear protective gloves. Cheers, Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] new CC
Hello CV3 sure, its paired to my other NWA CV3 I have, seen the biggest CAI's visible in this type of CC. Regards Matteo --- Peter Marmet [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Hello All, as the list is rather quiet, I thought you might like to have a look at a new CC: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ Comments and guesses;-) welcome! Peter M. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
For me the main mass its the biggest piece survive after cutting etc... Matteo --- Arizona Skies Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Adam this has got to be one of the stupidest things you've posted to this list. The NWA numbering system really isn't all that complicated. Just to help you out Adam, each and every NWA numbered meteorite has a MAIN MASS. For you, Adam that would mean the B-i-g-g-e-s-t piece. Maybe you have heard of a publication called the 'Meteoritical Bulletin'? Here's an excerpt from MB89 to help clarify things for you. Pay particular attention to the last three words. Northwest Africa 2373 Northwest Africa Purchased 2004 August Martian (olivine-phyric shergottite) Several small stones that weigh 18.1 g were purchased in Erfoud Morocco. They are yellow brown with desert ablation/varnish surface only, no fusion crust. Description and classification (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU): olivine phenocrysts (1.25 mm in longest dimension) set in a fine-grained groundmass (0.1 mm) of pigeonite, maskelynite, chromite, Ti-magnetite, augite, chlorapatite and sulphide. Olivine has cores of Fa30.7 (FeO/MnO = 51.9), rims of Fa50.3 (FeO/MnO = 53.3) and contain micron to submicron inclusions of chromite, glass, and barite. One large olivine grain, which may be a xenocryst, is different from the rest with a core of Fa29.1 (FeO/MnO = 43) and more abundant tiny inclusions. The wide (0.2 to 0.4 mm), inclusion-free mantle on this grain is Fa32.3 (FeO/MnO = 39.2). Pigeonite is zoned from Fs29.4Wo8.4 to Fs36.4Wo14.1 (FeO/MnO = 28); augite is Fs21.8Wo29.1. Maskelynite is slightly zoned with a compositional average of An52.1Or2.1. Chromite, cr# = 87, fe# = 90.4. Overall texture, mineral content and mineral compositions strongly suggest that this stone is paired with NWA 1068. The specimen is lightly weathered and moderately shocked. Specimens: type specimen, 3.7 g and one thin section, NAU; main mass, Birdsell. Now Adam are you suggesting that the Scientists that write these classifications, the Nom Com and the editors of the Meteoritical Bulletin are somehow misleading and dishonest? Kind regards -John --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List, I noticed some dealers and collectors are calling pairings that are smaller than the largest piece of a pairing series the Main Mass. An example would be if an 8 kilogram Martian meteorite was called DAG 476. Then somebody comes up with a smaller 1 kilogram meteorite named DAG XXX which was found to paired to DAG 476. Then the dealer sells the 1 Kilogram DAG XXX as a Main Mass. I think this practice is misleading and dishonest. I think the term Secondary Largest Mass may be more appropriate. What do you think? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Arizona Skies Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Adam's logic is sound - it should be the largest piece in the pairing group. But I believe John's assessment to be correct - if it has it's own number it has it's own main mass as evidenced by John's example with the NWA2373, printed in ink by Dr. Bunch and Wittke An unfortunate side effect of the NWA nomenclature, one of many. Some day it will all be sorted out, some day long from now. Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
OPINION: This has traditionally, for as long as I have been collecting, and that is for 50+ years, the one largest or primary piece has been the main mass. More usually, there had been a loose understanding that the main mass usually referred to a very large meteorite where there was one substantially large piece and many smaller pieces. If there, for example, were a strewnfield with many pieces that were all within a similar size range, it served no meaningful purpose to call the largest a main mass. After 1999 when many small Saharan individuals, all somewhat different, started becoming available, and there was only one of each, soon each started to be referred to a main mass. This was a happy time for dealers and collectors as collectors could now collect main masses! But, I don't think that was the intent of the term as it was originally used. And definitely, as Adam states, there can be only one main mass. One need only to look up the term main in a dictionary, i.e. the first in size. Dealers and collectors who try to bend the rules (broaden established definitions) for their own gain do nothing in the eyes of researchers to promote a good image for meteorite collecting in general. In the end such behavior will come back to haunt everyone! Ron Hartman - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass I agree with what Mike had to say about not using the term Main Mass to describe a pairing of smaller size, it seems too misleading to me. Scientist have made a good effort with the pairing issues. One just has to look at the following sites to see this is so: http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/meteorites/moon_meteorites_list.html http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/ Not only that, pairings are mentioned in abstracts because most scientists use this information and believe it is valid data. I think a better term must be available, mainly in the interest of collectors. I would never claim to have 42 planetary main masses even though I may have the same number of nomenclature assignments. To do so would be fraudulent in my opinion. Take Care, Adam - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass Hola Adam, Mike, Dean, Bob, and anyone else on this subject, You guys are all to be commended on your roles in the recovery of these specimens. The real question I see is not how many main masses you have -but whether you have any main masses at all- from these dense localities: The system is quite arbitrary no matter how you attribute subjective/random pairings. This shouldn't have any negative connotation associated with it. I posted something similar to this about a year or two ago in this forum. You all definitely have a lot of the world's biggest pieces in your possessions, none of you massive dealers needs any bragging rights from a viewpoint down here in the trenches, its not as if these were Nobel prizes, nor is it comparable in 99% of the cases to Steve Arnold's gig. This is unarguably an artificially manufactured situation in the dense collection areas. Besides Adam's, Mike's response was pretty straightforward, too, and Dean's logic very intelligent as well, as well as the rest...it really sounds much less scientific and more like discussion among competing cereal companies on who can label the food as Heart Healthy and who can't. I'd go retro and just ask Where's the Beef? while we watch y'all in this potentially high-steaks and breadwinning issue. So as long as we understand this is more of a Cola Wars' type question than a meaningful scientific question, it's interesting to hear all these arguments and occasionally add a peep or two in the shadow of the giants. Maybe I'm wrong, but we've seen this discussion in many presentations before. That's great, as long as everyone agrees that this is a commercial and not a scientific issue. It actually looks like you all do, in my (very) humble perception...Saludos, Doug PS a known pairing series can be open to interpretation, and are not exhaustive analyses, right? The science doesn't feel the need to address this issue, as far as I gather... In a message dated 1/19/2006 10:57:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I followed this logic, I would have 48 planetary Main Masses. Yeah for me! In reality, we have less than a dozen as far as I am concerned. I will stick to the what I believe are the rules, the largest piece in a known pairing series is the only Main Mass. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] article on search for a missing meteorite
Dave, I don't think anyone can be one of those Indiana Jones types unless they have one of those hats, and, oh yeah, a bullwhip... Sterling - Original Message - From: dfreeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] article on search for a missing meteorite Dear Mike, List; Let's all be sure that we don't let any of those indiana jones types try and talk us our of our meteorites, after all, they belong to us! Dave F. Michael Farmer wrote: This guy seems to have a 100 different scams, meteorite investments for people to give him money to hunt meteorites. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Gary K. Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] article on search for a missing meteorite I got a copy of this in my private email this morning. Thought it odd and deleted it. Then this report that you got one too, and now one directly to the list. Someone is working hard to raise interest in a 'maybeorite' in hopes of what I can't imagine. Unless they already have found it and are trying to raise the legend factor for more $$$. Gary http://www.meteorite-dealers.com On 19 Jan 2006 at 20:44, Darren Garrison wrote: Someone anonymous e-mailed me this link tonight through the e-mail this story link at the bottom. I have no idea who it was, or if it has been passed along to other list members, but here it is: http://www.mainstreetnewspapers.com/articles/2006/01/19/fincastle/news/news05.txt Seen an unusual black rock lying on a stone wall lately? By ANITA J. FIREBAUGH Somewhere in Botetourt or Craig County there may be a really big meteorite lying on a rock wall-at least that's where it was left according to the last documentation about its location 125 years ago. Found in Botetourt County in 1850, this hunk of metal/rock from space is missing, and specimens of the meteorite are difficult to locate. Botetourt County is a large area to cover, and in 1850 it was even bigger, because at the time it also encompassed what is now Craig County. So the meteorite could be anywhere in this area of Southwest Virginia. Wherever it is, at least one meteorite hunter wants to find it. Rick Yarrow of Florida contacted The Fincastle Herald recently to ask if anyone knew the meteorite's location. He said he was an amateur meteorite hunter and wanted to find what he called the Botetourt County meteorite. The meteorite is listed in a book, Catalogue of Meteorites, and noted in other official lists of named and recorded meteorite finds. Very small specimens are supposed to be at Arizona State University, the United States Natural Museum (USNM or the Smithsonian), and in Calcutta and Vienna, but the Botetourt meteorite itself apparently was very large. The USNM could not locate its specimen, and Linda Welxenbach, USNM collection manager for the division of meteorites, was unsure if it ever was in the collection. â?oWe have pictures of the crystal structure of the meteorite but on the back it says the specimen is in Vienna,â?� she said. Her documentation on the meteorite shows the fragments were once part of a mineral collection bequeathed to the Smithsonian by C. U. Shepard, a 19th century professor at Amherst College in Massachusetts and noted mineral collector. In his papers, Shepard lists the Botetourt County, Virginia meteorite. In 1866, he wrote: â?oThis iron was discovered more than fifteen years ago in a mass so ponderous that the finder, having attempted to transport it on horseback a number of miles to his house, was obliged to abandon the undertaking. He left it upon a stone wall by the road-side, after having (with the assistance of a negro who happened at the time to be passing with a hammer) detached two or three small angular fragments.â?� Shepard wrote that the finder gave the fragments to N. S. Manross, another Amherst College professor, who took them to Gottingen, Germany, for analysis. The fragments were determined to have a very unusual presence of nickel. Manross eventually gave one of the fragments and the information about its acquisition to Shepard. Shepard acquired all of the fragments after Manross died. Shepard described the fragments as â?owhiter than most irons Å fine granular like cast-steel.â?� Welxenbach said upon further study it appears the Botetourt County meteorite is similar to a 20-pound meteorite called Babb's Mill, found in 1842 in Greene County, Tenn. and theorized the rocks may be from the same meteor or could even be the same meteorite. It is not unusual for meteorites to be found from the same fall, as such an event is called, said John Goss, Botetourt County's master astronomer. Goss said a large meteor falling from the
Re: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch?
Thanks, Martin! I will put my gloves away. But you've given me an idea. What about selling Nomex gloves on eBay as Meteorite Catching Mitts? At a huge markup, of course. Sterling - - Original Message - From: Martin Horejsi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch? Hi All, Yesterday I asked Don Brownlee about the sample return capsule compared to a meteorite, and he thinks some meteorites arrive on earth warm or hot to the touch, although admitting there is an amount of folklore in the old stories. However the Stardust SRC was not hot, nor even warm when it was recovered in Utah. Today I checked with Karen McNamara, the curation engineer who was one of the first onsight at the capsule's recovery and she told me that the surface temperature of the capsule taken with an infrared gun at the time of recovery was only 30 degrees F, about the same as the air. More food for thought. Or not. Martin PS: Hey Adam- Don showed me a pic on his computer of the huge moon and mars rocks you showed them at your meeting. Pretty cool, and pretty impressive. On 1/19/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Abestos Hands! Yes, one can lightly, or gently, or for a short period, handle a 60°C - 140°F object, but the threshhold for cell death is 134°F if maintained for more than a very short time. Burns will not occur, but cells (dermal and deeper tissues) will die. One reason humans can briefly handle very hot objects is the protection provided by the evaporation of skin moisture which momentarily insulates the skin. When that fails the heat must penetrate the epidermis (dead cells anyway). Your know you've gone as far as you can go when, after touching a hot object, your skin is dry and sheds a white dust (burnt epidermis). To carry a heavy (and precious) object like the capsule at 140°F without haste or the last-minute loosening of grip requires protection. Not much, but some: Nomex gloves are more than enough (widely sold for $12 a pair under the moniker the Ove-Glove). Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch? Unbelievable! I recommend to train upcoming NASA-reentry-capsule-recoverers in a special program. To proof cost efficency, I'll could develope such a program for only 120.000bucks. The program is: Come on, little princes and pashas, 60°C - 140F, protective gloves???! What about you helping a little at home in the household? I stongly recommend dish washing. Girly NASA: 60° - I can touch it without problems. Martin, the housewife. - Original Message - From: Martin Horejsi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Stardust SRC Hot to the touch? Hi Ron and All, I am wondering why the Stardust SRC might arrive to earth too hot to touch, yet the mantra for meteorites is they must be cold even though history is littered with witnesses claiming the stones and irons were, you guessed it, too hot to touch. Here is an excerpt from the Stardust press kit, page: 14-15: Following a normal entry, the capsule will be hand-carried to the helicopter for trans- port. The capsule will be warm; temperature of the heat shield could be as high as 60 Celsius (140 Fahrenheit), so handlers will be required to wear protective gloves. Cheers, Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] More on main mass
Ken writes: There is only one main mass to a Fall. From a philosophical standpoint, sure. But from a point of practicality, you will rarely know if you have identified the main mass of a fall or not. So in common usage, main mass is altered to mean the largest known mass. As Steve Arnold aptly demonstrated, the title of main mass is fluid. In areas of dense collection -- including Antarctica, NWA, Oman, Roosevelt County, and the desert southwest of the U.S. -- incomplete or missing pairing information makes the determination of the known main mass of a fall ambiguous. I don't know why a collector would place any extra value on a specimen claiming to be the main mass and coming from one of these areas. Most NWA designations refer to single stones, so in effect main mass is just a marketing term. Ken finished with: In my mind where the society has really lost it giving separate numbers to the same Fall (event) of meteorites. I can think of nothing better that they could have done. The dendritic system of undocumented recovery, transport, visual sorting, arbitrary grouping, selling and reselling effectively scrambles the individual strewn fields. Only with the rarest meteorites types is it sometimes possible to reunite specimens belonging to the same fall. --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites smell good ...mmm
Hi Bob and List, Neat! Sounds like you had a nice time and the kids really learned something. Can't be that combination anytime! I need some help from list members. I am hosting a star party next month for my daughter's first grade class. Her teacher is going to require the students to keep a moon journal for a few days to record naked-eye lunar observations and associated meteorological and atmospheric conditions (on their level, of course). I plan to bring some scopes to the school for a couple of nights to let the kids actually observe the moon. I am also going to supply plenty of hot chocolate and some of the freeze-dried astronaut food (ice cream) that you can purchase a various space/aviation visitors centers and museums. As my friend Gail from Alberta says, it should be a hoot, eh? Anyway, I would like to also give each child a meteorite. I have given away many kg of meteorites over the past several years but alas, I have none to give away at present. To anyone who can help me, I need 20 or so fragments of NWA 869, totaling maybe 1-2 kg. I have plenty of 4 x 3 inch baggies to place them in, along with an ID card. Can anyone supply me with 20 fragments. I will pay with a check so I suppose I am looking to obtain these from only US dealers as the fees for non-US banks to cash a US check are expensive. I chose NWA 869 because is it relatively plentiful and I can explain the naming/numbering procedure to the kids and their parents. They can also practice doing a little research on the internet, when they are a little older. I will not accept donations as you should be paid for your goods but I can certainly include the supplying dealers ID card with the meteorite. Who knows, maybe a parent will want to follow up with the source dealer. Anyway, can anyone help me out? -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Bob King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:34 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites smell good ...mmm Hello all, A lot of us like to bring meteorites to classes we occasionally visit with or teach. I had this opportunity earlier this week and just for fun brought a sheet of 220 grit sandpaper and a slice of NWA 869 for the kids to do a scratch and sniff. I asked them to grind away a little bit on the sandpaper and then take a whiff of meteorite. Most of them compared the odor to sulfur or matches. One 6th grader was pretty excited: It smells like matches. I like the smell of matches. I explained that sometimes freshly fallen meteorites have a sulfurous smell. Though I wasn't positively certain, I'm assuming the odor is from the sulfur in troilite? Anyway, it was fun to do some hands on with the asteroid bits. Happy sniffing! Bob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites smell good ...mmm
Bob, Fresh carbonaceous types are reputed to have a smell from their many organic compounds. Murchison is said to have smelled like methylated spirits, bitumen or kerosene. And Bob Haag was shown one a local resident kept in a mason jar that smelled of Bubble Gum! Sterling -- - Original Message - From: Bob King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:34 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites smell good ...mmm Hello all, A lot of us like to bring meteorites to classes we occasionally visit with or teach. I had this opportunity earlier this week and just for fun brought a sheet of 220 grit sandpaper and a slice of NWA 869 for the kids to do a scratch and sniff. I asked them to grind away a little bit on the sandpaper and then take a whiff of meteorite. Most of them compared the odor to sulfur or matches. One 6th grader was pretty excited: It smells like matches. I like the smell of matches. I explained that sometimes freshly fallen meteorites have a sulfurous smell. Though I wasn't positively certain, I'm assuming the odor is from the sulfur in troilite? Anyway, it was fun to do some hands on with the asteroid bits. Happy sniffing! Bob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Adam wrote: There will be a meeting in Tucson with a well-known committee person before the Peoples Auction to discuss subjects just like this so I am gathering a consensus. So far I have not hear what collectors think. Since you are collecting opinions I'll give you 2 of them, my 2 cents worth so a penny each. First the cynical one - Buyers like to own main masses, sellers like to sell things. The looser the defination of main mass the more there are to sell. Buyers are happy, sellers are happy. Second my personal defination. If a stone isn't at least 1/2 the total mass recovered from the fall it isn't a main mass. Since the total mass recovered from the fall is unknown for NWA meteorites none of them qualify. That defination eliminates 98% of the so called main masses, Norton County being one of the few qualifiers. Buyers won't like that defination because it makes main masses virtually impossible to own. Sellers won't like it because it removes a sexy selling label. But it makes it easy for me to put together sales pages. I have never owned a main mass by my defination and have therefore never listed a meteorite as a main mass at my web site. It is my personal defination which I don't expect to see adopted in the meteorite community, but it suffices for me. -- Eric Olson ELKK Meteorites http://www.star-bits.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass -OT
On a cold and thirsty night, Dave, wrote: Cereal wars LOLI prefer tastes great, less filling wars! I think the main mass issue is a product of the system in NWA's. I also think that main mass is a fluid issue. On an equally cold and thirsty night Doug drinks to that: Hmmm, fluid issue influencing our main mass!!! Scientifisizing these wars in the list tradition, to gain some true scientific acceptance: tastes great, less filling wars are: Wars of Narcoleptics(hops=tastes great) vs. Alcohols(from cereal: barleys=more filling). These wars are not quite apples to oranges, just hops to barleys:) Or also weed vs. grass. I.e., Cannabinaceae vs. Poaceae (scientific families of weed and grass of these competing brew plants responsible for taste and filling)... References: 1. http://www.separationsnow.com/coi/cda/detail.cda;jsessionid=30C2B97439678D5FEF6A630CDE1CFA9F?id=511type=FeaturechId=3page=1 2. The Chemistry and Technology of Food and Food Products, M.B. Jacobs (ed.), 1951. Interscience, Analysis of Beer. 3. Encyclopedia Britannica. Vol. 1, 15th edition, 1974. Chicago, IL. 4. Official Methods of Analysis. 1984. 14th edition, Williams (ed.). AOAC, Arlington, VA. Saludos, Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
OK. So how would the person who owns the largest piece of NWA489 (Or any other NWA) describe their Main Mass so as to show that they own the largest piece of what is called and officially recogonized by the met society and everybody else in the world as NWA489? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass
Yes Adam, you may of course use any term you like. In fact, perhaps the term main mass shouldn't be used at all since it presupposes that there aren't a larger yet undiscovered masses from the same fall. That may mislead a collector into buying a specimen that isn't actually the very biggest piece from the fall. Maybe the term should be largest individual of NWA 123 or largest individual found to date from presumed fall XYZ. Though, I must confess that I don't quite see the difference, since the fact of the matter is that both the terms 'main mass' and 'largest individual' are still context dependent... Cheers -John --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I respectfully disagree with the below statement, the List seems to be divided on its usage therefore it is not currently accepted. I feel safer using the old established definition of the term Main Mass rather than the new selectively used definition. I think the term The largest specimen under this particular nomenclature would more accurate in describing the smaller pairings than Main Mass. The term main mass is not a difficult concept. In its currently accepted usage it is context dependent. Take Care, Adam - Original Message - From: Arizona Skies Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass The term main mass is not a difficult concept. In its currently accepted usage it is context dependent. If one states that meteorite Z is the main mass of the NWA 123, then that clearly means it is the largest extant specimen of the meteorite individuals comprising all individuals belonging to the NWA 123 grouping. It does not imply anything more or less. That is it. No if's, and's or but's. If on the other hand one states that meteorite Z is the main mass of a particular fall, then that implys that it is the largest extant specimen found to date from a defined fall, or the largest remaining specimen if the largest specimen has been cut up. This really isn't that diffulcult to understand is it? -John --- R. N. Hartman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OPINION: This has traditionally, for as long as I have been collecting, and that is for 50+ years, the one largest or primary piece has been the main mass. More usually, there had been a loose understanding that the main mass usually referred to a very large meteorite where there was one substantially large piece and many smaller pieces. If there, for example, were a strewnfield with many pieces that were all within a similar size range, it served no meaningful purpose to call the largest a main mass. After 1999 when many small Saharan individuals, all somewhat different, started becoming available, and there was only one of each, soon each started to be referred to a main mass. This was a happy time for dealers and collectors as collectors could now collect main masses! But, I don't think that was the intent of the term as it was originally used. And definitely, as Adam states, there can be only one main mass. One need only to look up the term main in a dictionary, i.e. the first in size. Dealers and collectors who try to bend the rules (broaden established definitions) for their own gain do nothing in the eyes of researchers to promote a good image for meteorite collecting in general. In the end such behavior will come back to haunt everyone! Ron Hartman - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass I agree with what Mike had to say about not using the term Main Mass to describe a pairing of smaller size, it seems too misleading to me. Scientist have made a good effort with the pairing issues. One just has to look at the following sites to see this is so: http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/meteorites/moon_meteorites_list.html http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/ Not only that, pairings are mentioned in abstracts because most scientists use this information and believe it is valid data. I think a better term must be available, mainly in the interest of collectors. I would never claim to have 42 planetary main masses even though I may have the same number of nomenclature assignments. To do so would be fraudulent in my opinion. Take Care, Adam - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Term Main Mass Hola Adam, Mike, Dean, Bob, and
