Re: [meteorite-list] Frederiksburg iron

[Jason Utas]

Done with French...
o...k.

You're lying.  Copy and paste it for the list to see, please.
I told you that you did wrong in not apologizing.  You're saying that
I said that you did wrong back then.
Come on Mike, I want to see this.

I told you that John saw it that way.  JOHN SAW IT THAT WAY.
I've said it at least ten times now.

John saw what you did as snatching it. =/= You DID snatch it.

Do you see the difference?  I do

And the question isn't, as you say,  why I think I know more about the
deal than you do.
I never said that I did.
You said that.
I simply said that I knew my side and that you knew yours.
If you think you know more about my side of it than I do (apparently
it's all lies anyways), go ahead and do so - I know you're wrong, and
frankly I don't value your opinion on this highly.
Now, you've told me your end of the story about six times now, and I
think I know it pretty well.  Not better than you, but pretty damn
well.

Now I understand why people get frustrated with you.  Even when I type
in English, you don't read half of what I say, and only take the bits
that incite you even more.
And why the hell is this all public again?  What thewhy?  Just...why?
Why the hell do 600 people need to read this?  Or delete it.

I don't get it Mike...I thought this was resolved hours ago, and made
a little note saying it was resolved privately.  Then you dragged it
up again, and now you're just putting crap that I never said in my
mouth.  Arguing is one thing, but lying?  You lost me with that one.
It's like you just want to drag it out for the sake of the argument.

And nice playing the age card - just fyi, 12 year old's have
functioning brains with memories too ;)
In fact, studies show that until puberty ends, the brain has phases of
development and expansion, as well as a vastly increased
learning/memory capacity compared with that of adults.  So if
anything, I probably remember this all better than you do...

Jason



On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Jason,
Apologize to John for what? Paying the man who wanted
to sell the meteorite, something that John would
not/could not do? Sorry, but no thanks.
If Dr. Wasson is holding the data, waiting for an
apology from me after I gave him more than half a
kilo, that what kind of scientist is he? How did I
deal with John after the fact? I gave him more than
500 grams of a rare meteorite, and never heard one
word from him again, so please explain how I did
anything after the fact? That makes no sense.
There is no argument here, just a simple reciting of
facts regarding a meteorite that I bought. How old
were you back then, I don't know your exact age, but I
guess you would have been around 11 or 12 years old
back then? Why do you presume to know more about this
transaction than the man who made the deal, jumped on
a plane, and spent more than $20,000 in hundred dollar
bills? That alone makes no sense.
Actually you told me privately that I did wrong,
whether knowingly or unkowingly by "snatching" the
meteorite from your/Wasson's hands. I told you that
the emails clearly showed that Wasson was not
responding to him, so he found me on the internet,
offered me the meteorite, and I bought it. I
understand that you and Wasson might be dissapointed
that you did not get the meteorite, but obviously the
negotiations were not going well, or he would not have
looked me up and sold me the meteorite now would he?
It seems that by your temper, and use of curse words,
that there is an underlying issue here, and you
refusal to answer my private emails confirms that,
since I countered your assertions with no rebuttal.

Enjoy your French homework, I found Spanish a much
more useful language to learn in today's world. I
myself, still suffer jetlag, so must get to bed.

thanks to Mike Jenson for clearing up the
classification issue, that allows everyone to finalize
their collection information.
Michael Farmer

--- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Mike,
> Again, you ignore my difference of opinion with you
> on the time scale,
> after restating a minute ago that it was seven years
> ago, etc.
> I refuse to further this travesty of an argument.
> If you simply
> ignore me the entire time, why the hell should I
> prolong it?
> Good Night.  I've said my bit - assuming that
> Fredericksburg would get
> its own name, even though it is paired to Richland,
> you can apologize
> to John and it'll be submitted.  If you think your
> pride is worth more
> than that, it's your decision, and no one's fault
> but your own, if not
> by the original action, by the way you dealed with
> John afterwards.
> I just wondered why it hadn't been submitted after
> so long.  I had
> only our side of the story before, now I have yours
> as well.  It's a
> shame you still have just yours.
> I said repeatedly that I thought that you did no
> real wrong based on
> the information that you had.  I also stated that,
>
>
> If you want what I really said, read the messag

Re: [meteorite-list] Frederiksburg iron

[Michael Farmer]

Jason, 
Apologize to John for what? Paying the man who wanted
to sell the meteorite, something that John would
not/could not do? Sorry, but no thanks.
If Dr. Wasson is holding the data, waiting for an
apology from me after I gave him more than half a
kilo, that what kind of scientist is he? How did I
deal with John after the fact? I gave him more than
500 grams of a rare meteorite, and never heard one
word from him again, so please explain how I did
anything after the fact? That makes no sense. 
There is no argument here, just a simple reciting of
facts regarding a meteorite that I bought. How old
were you back then, I don't know your exact age, but I
guess you would have been around 11 or 12 years old
back then? Why do you presume to know more about this
transaction than the man who made the deal, jumped on
a plane, and spent more than $20,000 in hundred dollar
bills? That alone makes no sense. 
Actually you told me privately that I did wrong,
whether knowingly or unkowingly by "snatching" the
meteorite from your/Wasson's hands. I told you that
the emails clearly showed that Wasson was not
responding to him, so he found me on the internet,
offered me the meteorite, and I bought it. I
understand that you and Wasson might be dissapointed
that you did not get the meteorite, but obviously the
negotiations were not going well, or he would not have
looked me up and sold me the meteorite now would he? 
It seems that by your temper, and use of curse words,
that there is an underlying issue here, and you
refusal to answer my private emails confirms that,
since I countered your assertions with no rebuttal.

Enjoy your French homework, I found Spanish a much
more useful language to learn in today's world. I
myself, still suffer jetlag, so must get to bed. 

thanks to Mike Jenson for clearing up the
classification issue, that allows everyone to finalize
their collection information.
Michael Farmer

--- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Mike,
> Again, you ignore my difference of opinion with you
> on the time scale,
> after restating a minute ago that it was seven years
> ago, etc.
> I refuse to further this travesty of an argument. 
> If you simply
> ignore me the entire time, why the hell should I
> prolong it?
> Good Night.  I've said my bit - assuming that
> Fredericksburg would get
> its own name, even though it is paired to Richland,
> you can apologize
> to John and it'll be submitted.  If you think your
> pride is worth more
> than that, it's your decision, and no one's fault
> but your own, if not
> by the original action, by the way you dealed with
> John afterwards.
> I just wondered why it hadn't been submitted after
> so long.  I had
> only our side of the story before, now I have yours
> as well.  It's a
> shame you still have just yours.
> I said repeatedly that I thought that you did no
> real wrong based on
> the information that you had.  I also stated that,
> 
> 
> If you want what I really said, read the messages I
> sent you.  It
> doesn't sound to me as if you have.
> 
> 
> I'm going to do French homework.
> If you reply, Mike, it'll be to yourself.
> Jason
> 
> On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Again, if there is a problem with the sale, it
> would
> > be more on the Wasson/owner of the meteorite in
> Alaska
> > side of the coin, not on my side.
> > Simple
> > Man in Alaska emails me about 47 kilo meteorite.
> > I make offer.
> > Man accepts offer.
> > I fly to Alaska some days later with many $100
> bills
> > and buy meteorite.
> > I go home, announce meteorite.
> > Dr. Wasson gets angry that I took action that he
> had
> > years to take.
> > Dr, Wasson then refuses to answer my emails for
> years,
> > and refuses to release his data on the meteorite.
> > If you think that I did something wrong, that is
> your
> > business, but my friend, when I am offered a
> > meteorite, I am going to buy it unless I know
> someone
> > else is buying it. When I am shown email after
> email
> > dated more than one year old requesting payment
> from
> > UCLA, then I must assume that they are not really
> all
> > that interested. The seller was sure ready to take
> my
> > money, so he must have exhausted all Patience for
> > dealing with UCLA.
> > If you and Wasson wanted the meteorite that badly,
> why
> > did you not make an offer, make a price, answer
> the
> > man's repeated requests that spanned more than one
> > year?
> > Michael Farmer
> >
> >
> > --- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > As am I with my facts - we have a binder on it
> > > somewhere, but I do
> > > remember quite well - it was the first thing we
> ever
> > > corroborated with
> > > John on.
> > > That being said, I don't believe we disagree on
> the
> > > politics of it at
> > > all, assuming that the Richland pairing didn't
> play
> > > the part it
> > > appears to have.
> > >
> > > On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > It would have been nice, and professional, 

Re: [meteorite-list] Frederiksburg iron

[Jason Utas]

Mike,
Again, you ignore my difference of opinion with you on the time scale,
after restating a minute ago that it was seven years ago, etc.
I refuse to further this travesty of an argument.  If you simply
ignore me the entire time, why the hell should I prolong it?
Good Night.  I've said my bit - assuming that Fredericksburg would get
its own name, even though it is paired to Richland, you can apologize
to John and it'll be submitted.  If you think your pride is worth more
than that, it's your decision, and no one's fault but your own, if not
by the original action, by the way you dealed with John afterwards.
I just wondered why it hadn't been submitted after so long.  I had
only our side of the story before, now I have yours as well.  It's a
shame you still have just yours.
I said repeatedly that I thought that you did no real wrong based on
the information that you had.  I also stated that,


If you want what I really said, read the messages I sent you.  It
doesn't sound to me as if you have.


I'm going to do French homework.
If you reply, Mike, it'll be to yourself.
Jason

On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Again, if there is a problem with the sale, it would
be more on the Wasson/owner of the meteorite in Alaska
side of the coin, not on my side.
Simple
Man in Alaska emails me about 47 kilo meteorite.
I make offer.
Man accepts offer.
I fly to Alaska some days later with many $100 bills
and buy meteorite.
I go home, announce meteorite.
Dr. Wasson gets angry that I took action that he had
years to take.
Dr, Wasson then refuses to answer my emails for years,
and refuses to release his data on the meteorite.
If you think that I did something wrong, that is your
business, but my friend, when I am offered a
meteorite, I am going to buy it unless I know someone
else is buying it. When I am shown email after email
dated more than one year old requesting payment from
UCLA, then I must assume that they are not really all
that interested. The seller was sure ready to take my
money, so he must have exhausted all Patience for
dealing with UCLA.
If you and Wasson wanted the meteorite that badly, why
did you not make an offer, make a price, answer the
man's repeated requests that spanned more than one
year?
Michael Farmer


--- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> As am I with my facts - we have a binder on it
> somewhere, but I do
> remember quite well - it was the first thing we ever
> corroborated with
> John on.
> That being said, I don't believe we disagree on the
> politics of it at
> all, assuming that the Richland pairing didn't play
> the part it
> appears to have.
>
> On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > It would have been nice, and professional, for Dr.
> > Wasson to convey that fact to me, after the many
> > emails I have sent him over the years.
> > We have no issues Jason, just disagree on the
> facts in
> > a dispute that is more than 7 years old.
> > Since I am the one who flew to Alaska, counted out
> the
> > money, and dealt with the owner, and drug the 47
> > kilogram meteorite through several airports (I
> > actually met with Adam Hupe at the Seattle
> Airport,
> > and showed him the meteorite on the way home),  I
> am
> > pretty sure my facts in the case are pretty
> accurate.
> > Michael Farmer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Haha, now that's just great - even if the
> politics
> > > were to blame
> > > initially, it wouldn't matter anyways - it's
> another
> > > mass of Richland.
> > > In any case, Mike Farmer and I (I'm pretty sure)
> > > resolved our bit off-list.
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > On 3/19/07, Mike Jensen
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi Michael
> > > > According to this article;
> > > > Formation of IIAB Irons By Wasson, J. T.,
> Huber,
> > > Heinz & Malvin,
> > > > Daniel J. from GCA 71 (2007) 760-781
> > > > They state in appendix B that : "The 47-kg
> > > Fredericksburg (Texas) iron
> > > > was first reported to us by a person living in
> > > Alaska, who stated that
> > > > it had been inherited from a deceased relative
> who
> > > lived near
> > > > Fredericksburg. Our analysis of the sample
> shows
> > > that, within error,
> > > > its composition is the same as that of
> Richland
> > > (Texas) iron. Both
> > > > irons appear to be strongly weathered.
> However,
> > > these two Texas
> > > > locations are 297 km apart, farther apart than
> > > plausible for a strewn
> > > > field. Our best guess is that human transport
> has
> > > been involved, and
> > > > that they are fragments from the same fall.
> > > Fredericksburg is not an
> > > > approved name; we suggest that this mass be
> > > referred to as Richland
> > > > (Fredericksburg) unless future studies imply
> that
> > > it resulted from a
> > > > distinct fall."
> > > >
> > > > They also have paired up several other irons
> but
> > > most well know is
> > > > Dutch Flat. They recommend treating it as
> paired
> > > with Sikho

[meteorite-list] RICHLAND

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, All,

Strictly as a dumb and innocent bystander on the
Thread: Illinois Irons, which is now and forever more
shall be about a Texas/Alaska Iron, I have a dumb 
and innocent question (lamb to the slaughter).

Here's what the Catalogue of Meteorites says
about RICHLAND:

A mass of 30lb (13.6kg) was found when 
an old well was being cleaned out. Listed, 
F.C. Leonard (1956).

Analysis, 5.56 %Ni, E.P. Henderson & 
O.E. Monnig (1957).

It has been suggested that it is a transported 
piece of Coahuila, but is chemically distinct. 
More recent analysis, 5.40 %Ni, 60.6 ppm.Ga, 
182 ppm.Ge, 8.2 ppm.Ir, J.T. Wasson (1974).

Structurally distinct from Coahuila; shock-melted 
troilite, V.F. Buchwald (1975).

Here's my dumb and innocent question: If the
mass of RICHLAND is 13.6 kilos and the mass of
(RICHLAND (FREDERICKSBERG) is 47+ kilos,
and FREDERICKSBERG is a piece of RICHLAND,
isn't Mike's 47 kilos (you carried it thru the airport?)
the Main Mass?

Naive little physicist says if they are two pieces
of the same meteoroid that fell at the same time, the
biggest piece is the Main Mass, as in, that corresponds
to the physical reality.

OK, ready for the beaurocratic axe to fall.


Sterling K. Webb
-

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] Frederiksburg iron

[Michael Farmer]

Again, if there is a problem with the sale, it would
be more on the Wasson/owner of the meteorite in Alaska
side of the coin, not on my side. 
Simple
Man in Alaska emails me about 47 kilo meteorite.
I make offer.
Man accepts offer. 
I fly to Alaska some days later with many $100 bills
and buy meteorite.
I go home, announce meteorite. 
Dr. Wasson gets angry that I took action that he had
years to take.
Dr, Wasson then refuses to answer my emails for years,
and refuses to release his data on the meteorite.
If you think that I did something wrong, that is your
business, but my friend, when I am offered a
meteorite, I am going to buy it unless I know someone
else is buying it. When I am shown email after email
dated more than one year old requesting payment from
UCLA, then I must assume that they are not really all
that interested. The seller was sure ready to take my
money, so he must have exhausted all Patience for
dealing with UCLA.
If you and Wasson wanted the meteorite that badly, why
did you not make an offer, make a price, answer the
man's repeated requests that spanned more than one
year?
Michael Farmer


--- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> As am I with my facts - we have a binder on it
> somewhere, but I do
> remember quite well - it was the first thing we ever
> corroborated with
> John on.
> That being said, I don't believe we disagree on the
> politics of it at
> all, assuming that the Richland pairing didn't play
> the part it
> appears to have.
> 
> On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > It would have been nice, and professional, for Dr.
> > Wasson to convey that fact to me, after the many
> > emails I have sent him over the years.
> > We have no issues Jason, just disagree on the
> facts in
> > a dispute that is more than 7 years old.
> > Since I am the one who flew to Alaska, counted out
> the
> > money, and dealt with the owner, and drug the 47
> > kilogram meteorite through several airports (I
> > actually met with Adam Hupe at the Seattle
> Airport,
> > and showed him the meteorite on the way home),  I
> am
> > pretty sure my facts in the case are pretty
> accurate.
> > Michael Farmer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Haha, now that's just great - even if the
> politics
> > > were to blame
> > > initially, it wouldn't matter anyways - it's
> another
> > > mass of Richland.
> > > In any case, Mike Farmer and I (I'm pretty sure)
> > > resolved our bit off-list.
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > On 3/19/07, Mike Jensen
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi Michael
> > > > According to this article;
> > > > Formation of IIAB Irons By Wasson, J. T.,
> Huber,
> > > Heinz & Malvin,
> > > > Daniel J. from GCA 71 (2007) 760-781
> > > > They state in appendix B that : "The 47-kg
> > > Fredericksburg (Texas) iron
> > > > was first reported to us by a person living in
> > > Alaska, who stated that
> > > > it had been inherited from a deceased relative
> who
> > > lived near
> > > > Fredericksburg. Our analysis of the sample
> shows
> > > that, within error,
> > > > its composition is the same as that of
> Richland
> > > (Texas) iron. Both
> > > > irons appear to be strongly weathered.
> However,
> > > these two Texas
> > > > locations are 297 km apart, farther apart than
> > > plausible for a strewn
> > > > field. Our best guess is that human transport
> has
> > > been involved, and
> > > > that they are fragments from the same fall.
> > > Fredericksburg is not an
> > > > approved name; we suggest that this mass be
> > > referred to as Richland
> > > > (Fredericksburg) unless future studies imply
> that
> > > it resulted from a
> > > > distinct fall."
> > > >
> > > > They also have paired up several other irons
> but
> > > most well know is
> > > > Dutch Flat. They recommend treating it as
> paired
> > > with Sikhote-Alin.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mike
> > > > --
> > > > Mike Jensen
> > > > Jensen Meteorites
> > > > 16730 E Ada PL
> > > > Aurora, CO 80017-3137
> > > > 303-337-4361
> > > > IMCA 4264
> > > > website: www.jensenmeteorites.com
> > > >
> > > > On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > Jason,
> > > > > I have asked, many times. Mr Wasson has not
> done
> > > me
> > > > > the courtesy of an answer. He was fast on
> the
> > > email
> > > > > though, when I bought the meteorite,
> demanding a
> > > ~500
> > > > > gram sample since UCLA had tried to buy the
> > > meteorite
> > > > > for years before I bought it. There was one
> > > problem
> > > > > though, they did not pay the owner of the
> > > meteorite.
> > > > > The seller got tired of waiting for UCLA to
> > > actually
> > > > > write a check after some years, and sold it
> to
> > > me.
> > > > > This angered John Wasson and he obviously,
> > > refuses to
> > > > > finish the classification because of that,
> even
> > > after
> > > > > I sent him and endcut of more than 500 grams
> for
> > > free.
> > > > > There is little I can do, so pe

Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons

[Jason Utas]

As am I with my facts - we have a binder on it somewhere, but I do
remember quite well - it was the first thing we ever corroborated with
John on.
That being said, I don't believe we disagree on the politics of it at
all, assuming that the Richland pairing didn't play the part it
appears to have.

On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

It would have been nice, and professional, for Dr.
Wasson to convey that fact to me, after the many
emails I have sent him over the years.
We have no issues Jason, just disagree on the facts in
a dispute that is more than 7 years old.
Since I am the one who flew to Alaska, counted out the
money, and dealt with the owner, and drug the 47
kilogram meteorite through several airports (I
actually met with Adam Hupe at the Seattle Airport,
and showed him the meteorite on the way home),  I am
pretty sure my facts in the case are pretty accurate.
Michael Farmer




--- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Haha, now that's just great - even if the politics
> were to blame
> initially, it wouldn't matter anyways - it's another
> mass of Richland.
> In any case, Mike Farmer and I (I'm pretty sure)
> resolved our bit off-list.
> Jason
>
> On 3/19/07, Mike Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Hi Michael
> > According to this article;
> > Formation of IIAB Irons By Wasson, J. T., Huber,
> Heinz & Malvin,
> > Daniel J. from GCA 71 (2007) 760-781
> > They state in appendix B that : "The 47-kg
> Fredericksburg (Texas) iron
> > was first reported to us by a person living in
> Alaska, who stated that
> > it had been inherited from a deceased relative who
> lived near
> > Fredericksburg. Our analysis of the sample shows
> that, within error,
> > its composition is the same as that of Richland
> (Texas) iron. Both
> > irons appear to be strongly weathered. However,
> these two Texas
> > locations are 297 km apart, farther apart than
> plausible for a strewn
> > field. Our best guess is that human transport has
> been involved, and
> > that they are fragments from the same fall.
> Fredericksburg is not an
> > approved name; we suggest that this mass be
> referred to as Richland
> > (Fredericksburg) unless future studies imply that
> it resulted from a
> > distinct fall."
> >
> > They also have paired up several other irons but
> most well know is
> > Dutch Flat. They recommend treating it as paired
> with Sikhote-Alin.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mike
> > --
> > Mike Jensen
> > Jensen Meteorites
> > 16730 E Ada PL
> > Aurora, CO 80017-3137
> > 303-337-4361
> > IMCA 4264
> > website: www.jensenmeteorites.com
> >
> > On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Jason,
> > > I have asked, many times. Mr Wasson has not done
> me
> > > the courtesy of an answer. He was fast on the
> email
> > > though, when I bought the meteorite, demanding a
> ~500
> > > gram sample since UCLA had tried to buy the
> meteorite
> > > for years before I bought it. There was one
> problem
> > > though, they did not pay the owner of the
> meteorite.
> > > The seller got tired of waiting for UCLA to
> actually
> > > write a check after some years, and sold it to
> me.
> > > This angered John Wasson and he obviously,
> refuses to
> > > finish the classification because of that, even
> after
> > > I sent him and endcut of more than 500 grams for
> free.
> > > There is little I can do, so perhaps you could
> ask
> > > about it.
> > > Michael Farmer
> > >
> > > --- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Bill, All,
> > > > You should read what you post - check the
> references
> > > > section of your
> > > > link and you get:
> > > >
> > > > Never published in the Meteoritical Bulletin
> > > > Find references in NASA ADS
> > > >
> > > > Haha, don't think I don't do my research too
> ;)
> > > > It's yet to be "published," just as I said.
> > > >
> > > > And Mike, it seems as if we've finally hit on
> > > > something we disagree on -
> > > > I didn't buy any piece of the meteorite, nor
> did I
> > > > buy/sell the entire mass.
> > > > I think that asking John would fall to you, or
> at
> > > > least a buyer.
> > > > I'm just curious to know why it hasn't been
> > > > submitted yet.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Jason
> > > >
> > > > On 3/19/07, Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > Hi Jason,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=havana&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&phot=&pnt=no&code=11857
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:23:20 -0700
> > > > > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] correction
> on
> > > > illinois irons
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Again All, Steve,
> > > > > > Well, you're...kind ofright.
> > > > > > Most people wouldn't qualify Havana as a

Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons

[Michael Farmer]

It would have been nice, and professional, for Dr.
Wasson to convey that fact to me, after the many
emails I have sent him over the years. 
We have no issues Jason, just disagree on the facts in
a dispute that is more than 7 years old. 
Since I am the one who flew to Alaska, counted out the
money, and dealt with the owner, and drug the 47
kilogram meteorite through several airports (I
actually met with Adam Hupe at the Seattle Airport,
and showed him the meteorite on the way home),  I am
pretty sure my facts in the case are pretty accurate. 
Michael Farmer




--- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Haha, now that's just great - even if the politics
> were to blame
> initially, it wouldn't matter anyways - it's another
> mass of Richland.
> In any case, Mike Farmer and I (I'm pretty sure)
> resolved our bit off-list.
> Jason
> 
> On 3/19/07, Mike Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Hi Michael
> > According to this article;
> > Formation of IIAB Irons By Wasson, J. T., Huber,
> Heinz & Malvin,
> > Daniel J. from GCA 71 (2007) 760-781
> > They state in appendix B that : "The 47-kg
> Fredericksburg (Texas) iron
> > was first reported to us by a person living in
> Alaska, who stated that
> > it had been inherited from a deceased relative who
> lived near
> > Fredericksburg. Our analysis of the sample shows
> that, within error,
> > its composition is the same as that of Richland
> (Texas) iron. Both
> > irons appear to be strongly weathered. However,
> these two Texas
> > locations are 297 km apart, farther apart than
> plausible for a strewn
> > field. Our best guess is that human transport has
> been involved, and
> > that they are fragments from the same fall.
> Fredericksburg is not an
> > approved name; we suggest that this mass be
> referred to as Richland
> > (Fredericksburg) unless future studies imply that
> it resulted from a
> > distinct fall."
> >
> > They also have paired up several other irons but
> most well know is
> > Dutch Flat. They recommend treating it as paired
> with Sikhote-Alin.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mike
> > --
> > Mike Jensen
> > Jensen Meteorites
> > 16730 E Ada PL
> > Aurora, CO 80017-3137
> > 303-337-4361
> > IMCA 4264
> > website: www.jensenmeteorites.com
> >
> > On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Jason,
> > > I have asked, many times. Mr Wasson has not done
> me
> > > the courtesy of an answer. He was fast on the
> email
> > > though, when I bought the meteorite, demanding a
> ~500
> > > gram sample since UCLA had tried to buy the
> meteorite
> > > for years before I bought it. There was one
> problem
> > > though, they did not pay the owner of the
> meteorite.
> > > The seller got tired of waiting for UCLA to
> actually
> > > write a check after some years, and sold it to
> me.
> > > This angered John Wasson and he obviously,
> refuses to
> > > finish the classification because of that, even
> after
> > > I sent him and endcut of more than 500 grams for
> free.
> > > There is little I can do, so perhaps you could
> ask
> > > about it.
> > > Michael Farmer
> > >
> > > --- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Bill, All,
> > > > You should read what you post - check the
> references
> > > > section of your
> > > > link and you get:
> > > >
> > > > Never published in the Meteoritical Bulletin
> > > > Find references in NASA ADS
> > > >
> > > > Haha, don't think I don't do my research too
> ;)
> > > > It's yet to be "published," just as I said.
> > > >
> > > > And Mike, it seems as if we've finally hit on
> > > > something we disagree on -
> > > > I didn't buy any piece of the meteorite, nor
> did I
> > > > buy/sell the entire mass.
> > > > I think that asking John would fall to you, or
> at
> > > > least a buyer.
> > > > I'm just curious to know why it hasn't been
> > > > submitted yet.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Jason
> > > >
> > > > On 3/19/07, Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > Hi Jason,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=havana&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&phot=&pnt=no&code=11857
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:23:20 -0700
> > > > > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] correction
> on
> > > > illinois irons
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Again All, Steve,
> > > > > > Well, you're...kind ofright.
> > > > > > Most people wouldn't qualify Havana as a
> > > > meteorite, seeing as all
> > > > > > that's known of it is a few little indian
> beads
> > > > made out of meteoric
> > > > > > iron.  Yes, it's true, they did turn out
> to have
> > > > a different chemical
> > > > > > composition than any known iron, but then
> again,
> > > > it was never
> > > > > > published in the meteoritical bulletin

[meteorite-list] AD: Taking highest offers on Briggsdale, CO IRON and McCook, Nebraska OC never offered on the market

[drtanuki]

Dear List,
  I will be taking off-list SERIOUS ONLY offers for
the two historic classified meteorites that will be
later sold.; BOTH ARE THE LARGEST AVAILABLE MASSES
OUTSIDE OF MUSEUMS.  MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THEIR
FINDS AND RECOVERIES WILL BE POSTED LATER.

  BEST ON YOUR OFFERS AND BIDS.  

THANK YOU.  DIRK ROSS...TOKYO

  
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Re: [meteorite-list] Fredericksburg meteorite and politics of science

[Michael Farmer]

Dirk, I have no idea, but it is clearly a personal
issue with Dr. Wasson. I gave them more than 500 grams
of a meteorite, I was never contacted again, or
thanked for that gift. I was further ignored for
nearly a decade when time and time again, I requested
data. 
That there could be an argument about who was on the
meteorite first, well, this is the real world. Dr
Wasson had years to buy the meteorite. He did not, he
got angry when the owner decided to sell to me. I saw
the emails, asking time and time again that Dr. Wasson
make a decision on the meteorite, all unanswered. 
Can ANYONE see a problem then, with me forking over
$100 bills, HUNDREDS of them, when the owner offered
the meteorite to me? Mr Wasson was then outraged that
I snatched the meteorite from UCLA! That is laughable.
So after I gave him for free something that I have
paid thousands for, he ignored me, and sat on the
information for years. This is true professionalism in
science right there!
Michael Farmer
--- drtanuki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Open letter to the LIST and the NOMCOM and
> Meteoritics
> Researchers,
> 
> Mike Farmer and others have brought up the question
> of
> ethics and politics in meteoritics among
> researchers. 
> Two examples that come to mind are Fredricksburg and
> NWA 869.
>   Does the NOMCOM have an ethics committte or a
> special committe that is assigned to researching
> scientific misconduct and other problems within the
> research community and the NOMCOM itself?
>   If you know of other research misconduct please
> feel
> free to write about it on this list or privately.
>   Thank you, Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo  
> 
> --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > List members.
> > I must express my disappointment with Jason for
> > quipping that the fact that the Fredericksburg
> > meteorite has not been classified, thus is not a
> > meteorite. Jason, here are you exact words "It
> would
> > be something like calling
> > Fredericksburg (remember that Hexahedrite from a
> few
> > years ago?) an approved meteorite - it's never
> been
> > mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so how can
> > you?"
> > 
> > Jason, you know it is a meteorite, and you know
> why
> > it
> > has not been approved. Politics and personal
> grudge
> > has turned science into a farce. John Wasson at
> UCLA
> > (the top iron meteorite scientist in the world"
> > refuses to submit it since I bought it. He
> > classified
> > it, confirmed with the owner that it was a
> > Hexahedrite
> > that was not paired to any other known meteorite,
> > and
> > tried to buy it. He did not try very hard, as he
> had
> > several years head-start on me. The owner sent
> many
> > faxes and emails to Dr. Wasson, who did not
> respond
> > for more than one year. Tired of waiting, the
> owner
> > found me on eBay, called me, and we made a price.
> I
> > was in Alaska only days later, cash in hand and
> saw
> > the copies of emails. He told me he needed money
> and
> > could no longer wait on UCLA, which did not return
> > his
> > emails/faxes and phone calls. The emails I saw
> were
> > very clear, asking Dr. Wasson to get in touch with
> > him
> > and finalize a price and purchase agreement. Those
> > phone calls, faxes, and emails all went unanswered
> > for
> > nearly a year.
> > 
> > Only days after announcing that I had bought the
> > meteorite, I received a rather terse and abrupt
> > email
> > from Dr. Wasson, angry that I had bought "his
> > meteorite" and he demanded a large piece for UCLA
> > since they had done the work on the meteorite. I
> > sent
> > them an end cut weighing more than 500 grams
> > (Perhaps
> > as much as 800 grams, I can't remember because
> that
> > was more than seven years ago). I never heard one
> > more
> > word from Dr. Wasson, not a "thank you" or
> anything.
> > I
> > emailed him numerous times requesting the
> > classification data, with no response. I heard
> > through
> > other scientists that he was quite angry with me
> for
> > buying what he felt was his meteorite. 
> > It has now been more than seven years since I
> bought
> > Fredericksburg, I don't even remember the exact
> > year,
> > but in that time, it has all been sold off. 
> > 
> > Did I leave anything out? Do you know more about
> > this?
> > Can I ask what you are calling me on? If UCLA
> could
> > not make a decision or raise the funds years after
> > knowing about this meteorite, then I think the
> loss
> > was due to their own lack of interest and
> > follow-through and ignoring the repeated requests
> of
> > the man trying to sell them the meteorite. The
> owner
> > needed money, and years
> > after asking UCLA for it, decided to sell to
> myself.
> > 
> > So actually, more than seven years after I bought
> > the
> > meteorite, and provided  more than 500 grams to
> > UCLA,
> > Dr Wasson refuses to finish the job he started
> years
> > before I ever heard of the meteorite. I guess
> > politics
> > triumphs over science in this case. 
> 

Re: [meteorite-list] Fredericksburg meteorite and politics of science

[Michael Farmer]

Actually, you threatened in your post that if I did
not answer you in time, it would be posted. 
That it is paired with Richland, that is great news, I
see the date on it is 2007, so Dr Wasson has ignored
my emails for years, and finally finished the job,
still without emailing me back. 
At least the question has been answered once and for
all. 
Jason, please do not write me privately  and demand a
response in a given time. I work for a living, I can't
jump at my keyboard to meet your time demands.
There was nothing in my email, but a history of the
controversy about Fredericksburg, not exactly a
private discussion, which I will not post.
Michael Farmer

--- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Ahh, well, I guess it wasn't to beoff list that
> is.
> I'll start by letting Mike have a good look at the
> quote he just put down.
> Note "approved meteorite."
> You suggest that I said that it wasn't a meteorite. 
> I, as you can
> clearly see, stated that it was merely not approved.
>  Read it if you
> don't believe me...
> 
> I responded to every issue brought up in your third
> paragraph
> privately.  Read it.
> As you can see, I pretty much agree with youway
> to wait for a
> response before posting again.
> 
> The issues in the fourth paragraph I addressed as
> well - privately, a
> good few minutes ago.
> 
> Furthermore, it seems clear to me now that it was
> merely not submitted
> because it was a paired piece of Richland.  If it's
> not a new
> meteorite, it shouldn't get a new name; we all know
> that.
> 
> Please don't do this again next time I respond
> privately to you.
> After I clearly did not publicly post my initial
> off-list response to
> the list, there was no reason for you to respond to
> everyone.
> 
> Annoyed,
> Jason
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > List members.
> > I must express my disappointment with Jason for
> > quipping that the fact that the Fredericksburg
> > meteorite has not been classified, thus is not a
> > meteorite. Jason, here are you exact words "It
> would
> > be something like calling
> > Fredericksburg (remember that Hexahedrite from a
> few
> > years ago?) an approved meteorite - it's never
> been
> > mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so how can
> > you?"
> >
> > Jason, you know it is a meteorite, and you know
> why it
> > has not been approved. Politics and personal
> grudge
> > has turned science into a farce. John Wasson at
> UCLA
> > (the top iron meteorite scientist in the world"
> > refuses to submit it since I bought it. He
> classified
> > it, confirmed with the owner that it was a
> Hexahedrite
> > that was not paired to any other known meteorite,
> and
> > tried to buy it. He did not try very hard, as he
> had
> > several years head-start on me. The owner sent
> many
> > faxes and emails to Dr. Wasson, who did not
> respond
> > for more than one year. Tired of waiting, the
> owner
> > found me on eBay, called me, and we made a price.
> I
> > was in Alaska only days later, cash in hand and
> saw
> > the copies of emails. He told me he needed money
> and
> > could no longer wait on UCLA, which did not return
> his
> > emails/faxes and phone calls. The emails I saw
> were
> > very clear, asking Dr. Wasson to get in touch with
> him
> > and finalize a price and purchase agreement. Those
> > phone calls, faxes, and emails all went unanswered
> for
> > nearly a year.
> >
> > Only days after announcing that I had bought the
> > meteorite, I received a rather terse and abrupt
> email
> > from Dr. Wasson, angry that I had bought "his
> > meteorite" and he demanded a large piece for UCLA
> > since they had done the work on the meteorite. I
> sent
> > them an end cut weighing more than 500 grams
> (Perhaps
> > as much as 800 grams, I can't remember because
> that
> > was more than seven years ago). I never heard one
> more
> > word from Dr. Wasson, not a "thank you" or
> anything. I
> > emailed him numerous times requesting the
> > classification data, with no response. I heard
> through
> > other scientists that he was quite angry with me
> for
> > buying what he felt was his meteorite.
> > It has now been more than seven years since I
> bought
> > Fredericksburg, I don't even remember the exact
> year,
> > but in that time, it has all been sold off.
> >
> > Did I leave anything out? Do you know more about
> this?
> > Can I ask what you are calling me on? If UCLA
> could
> > not make a decision or raise the funds years after
> > knowing about this meteorite, then I think the
> loss
> > was due to their own lack of interest and
> > follow-through and ignoring the repeated requests
> of
> > the man trying to sell them the meteorite. The
> owner
> > needed money, and years
> > after asking UCLA for it, decided to sell to
> myself.
> > So actually, more than seven years after I bought
> the
> > meteorite, and provided  more than 500 grams to
> UCLA,
> > Dr Wasson refuses to finish the job he started
> years
> > before

Re: [meteorite-list] Fredericksburg meteorite and politics of science

[Jason Utas]

Ahh, well, I guess it wasn't to beoff list that is.
I'll start by letting Mike have a good look at the quote he just put down.
Note "approved meteorite."
You suggest that I said that it wasn't a meteorite.  I, as you can
clearly see, stated that it was merely not approved.  Read it if you
don't believe me...

I responded to every issue brought up in your third paragraph
privately.  Read it.
As you can see, I pretty much agree with youway to wait for a
response before posting again.

The issues in the fourth paragraph I addressed as well - privately, a
good few minutes ago.

Furthermore, it seems clear to me now that it was merely not submitted
because it was a paired piece of Richland.  If it's not a new
meteorite, it shouldn't get a new name; we all know that.

Please don't do this again next time I respond privately to you.
After I clearly did not publicly post my initial off-list response to
the list, there was no reason for you to respond to everyone.

Annoyed,
Jason



On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

List members.
I must express my disappointment with Jason for
quipping that the fact that the Fredericksburg
meteorite has not been classified, thus is not a
meteorite. Jason, here are you exact words "It would
be something like calling
Fredericksburg (remember that Hexahedrite from a few
years ago?) an approved meteorite - it's never been
mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so how can
you?"

Jason, you know it is a meteorite, and you know why it
has not been approved. Politics and personal grudge
has turned science into a farce. John Wasson at UCLA
(the top iron meteorite scientist in the world"
refuses to submit it since I bought it. He classified
it, confirmed with the owner that it was a Hexahedrite
that was not paired to any other known meteorite, and
tried to buy it. He did not try very hard, as he had
several years head-start on me. The owner sent many
faxes and emails to Dr. Wasson, who did not respond
for more than one year. Tired of waiting, the owner
found me on eBay, called me, and we made a price. I
was in Alaska only days later, cash in hand and saw
the copies of emails. He told me he needed money and
could no longer wait on UCLA, which did not return his
emails/faxes and phone calls. The emails I saw were
very clear, asking Dr. Wasson to get in touch with him
and finalize a price and purchase agreement. Those
phone calls, faxes, and emails all went unanswered for
nearly a year.

Only days after announcing that I had bought the
meteorite, I received a rather terse and abrupt email
from Dr. Wasson, angry that I had bought "his
meteorite" and he demanded a large piece for UCLA
since they had done the work on the meteorite. I sent
them an end cut weighing more than 500 grams (Perhaps
as much as 800 grams, I can't remember because that
was more than seven years ago). I never heard one more
word from Dr. Wasson, not a "thank you" or anything. I
emailed him numerous times requesting the
classification data, with no response. I heard through
other scientists that he was quite angry with me for
buying what he felt was his meteorite.
It has now been more than seven years since I bought
Fredericksburg, I don't even remember the exact year,
but in that time, it has all been sold off.

Did I leave anything out? Do you know more about this?
Can I ask what you are calling me on? If UCLA could
not make a decision or raise the funds years after
knowing about this meteorite, then I think the loss
was due to their own lack of interest and
follow-through and ignoring the repeated requests of
the man trying to sell them the meteorite. The owner
needed money, and years
after asking UCLA for it, decided to sell to myself.
So actually, more than seven years after I bought the
meteorite, and provided  more than 500 grams to UCLA,
Dr Wasson refuses to finish the job he started years
before I ever heard of the meteorite. I guess politics
triumphs over science in this case.
Pieces of the Fredericksburg meteorite are in
collections and museums around the world. Mr Wasson
has the data, so perhaps people who have bought this
meteorite should start emailing Dr. Wasson, and ask
him why he will not submit it a decade after doing the
classification. My emails to him have gone unanswered,
so I have to assume that any further attempts by me to
get the data will meet the same fate.
Michael Farmer


This is a simple and complete history of the
Fredericksburg meteorite from Texas.


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[meteorite-list] [Fwd: [Launch Alert] Tuesday Night Missile Launch]

[Moni Waiblinger]

   LAUNCH ALERT

   Brian Webb
Ventura County, California
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: www.spacearchive.info

 2007 March 19 (Monday) 18:08 PDT
--

  MINUTEMAN II LAUNCH SCHEDULED
   Vandenberg AFB news release

VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. – A specially configured Minuteman
II intercontinental ballistic missile is scheduled to launch from
North Vandenberg’s Launch Facility-6 Tuesday to test the Missile
Defense Agency’s sensors.

Col. Teresa Djuric, 30th Space Wing vice commander, is the spacelift
commander for this launch. Representing MDA locally is Mr. Richard
Vernetti who is MDA’s target mission director.

--

 LAUNCH NOTES

Lift-off is probably scheduled to occur at, or shortly after, 20:30
PDT, the start of a multi-hour launch window. If the weather is clear,
the event should be visible to the naked eye over a wide area.

If the launch occurs early in the window, the vehicle might climb into
sunlight during the third stage burn. That would illuminate the
missile's exhaust plume, creating an impressive display visible in
California, Arizona, Nevada, and northern Mexico.

If the vehicle does not catch the sun's rays during the powered phase,
the event should be visible for a few hundred miles and resemble an
orange fireball or perhaps an orange or red star.

Since the launch is part of a sensitive missile defense test,
countdown status will probably be unavailable to the public.

--

  E-MAIL CONSIDERATIONS

In the days leading up to a launch, I'm often very busy and have a
hard time answering questions via e-mail. Many questions about launch
viewing and photography can be answered by reading the following
pages:

 www.spacearchive.info/vafbview.htm

 www.spacearchive.info/vafbphoto.htm

Following a launch, I receive anywhere from a handful to literally
hundreds of e-mails. However, just when I may be under a deadline and
trying to send an important e-mail, I can be flooded with incoming
launch observations and photos.

To prevent any problems, I ask that you do the following:

 - Only send images that are of high quality

 - Send no more than three images

 - Do not send any photo, video, or other attachments larger than
   750 kB.

--

Copyright © 2007 Brian Webb. All rights reserved. This newsletter may
be distributed in its entirety without restriction. Excerpts may be
not be reprinted or posted elsewhere without prior permission.

___

To subscribe or unsubscribe from this newsletter, go to:

http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/launch-alert

Questions and comments regarding this newsletter and editorial contributions
should be directed to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons

[Jason Utas]

Haha, now that's just great - even if the politics were to blame
initially, it wouldn't matter anyways - it's another mass of Richland.
In any case, Mike Farmer and I (I'm pretty sure) resolved our bit off-list.
Jason

On 3/19/07, Mike Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Michael
According to this article;
Formation of IIAB Irons By Wasson, J. T., Huber, Heinz & Malvin,
Daniel J. from GCA 71 (2007) 760-781
They state in appendix B that : "The 47-kg Fredericksburg (Texas) iron
was first reported to us by a person living in Alaska, who stated that
it had been inherited from a deceased relative who lived near
Fredericksburg. Our analysis of the sample shows that, within error,
its composition is the same as that of Richland (Texas) iron. Both
irons appear to be strongly weathered. However, these two Texas
locations are 297 km apart, farther apart than plausible for a strewn
field. Our best guess is that human transport has been involved, and
that they are fragments from the same fall. Fredericksburg is not an
approved name; we suggest that this mass be referred to as Richland
(Fredericksburg) unless future studies imply that it resulted from a
distinct fall."

They also have paired up several other irons but most well know is
Dutch Flat. They recommend treating it as paired with Sikhote-Alin.


--
Mike
--
Mike Jensen
Jensen Meteorites
16730 E Ada PL
Aurora, CO 80017-3137
303-337-4361
IMCA 4264
website: www.jensenmeteorites.com

On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jason,
> I have asked, many times. Mr Wasson has not done me
> the courtesy of an answer. He was fast on the email
> though, when I bought the meteorite, demanding a ~500
> gram sample since UCLA had tried to buy the meteorite
> for years before I bought it. There was one problem
> though, they did not pay the owner of the meteorite.
> The seller got tired of waiting for UCLA to actually
> write a check after some years, and sold it to me.
> This angered John Wasson and he obviously, refuses to
> finish the classification because of that, even after
> I sent him and endcut of more than 500 grams for free.
> There is little I can do, so perhaps you could ask
> about it.
> Michael Farmer
>
> --- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hello Bill, All,
> > You should read what you post - check the references
> > section of your
> > link and you get:
> >
> > Never published in the Meteoritical Bulletin
> > Find references in NASA ADS
> >
> > Haha, don't think I don't do my research too ;)
> > It's yet to be "published," just as I said.
> >
> > And Mike, it seems as if we've finally hit on
> > something we disagree on -
> > I didn't buy any piece of the meteorite, nor did I
> > buy/sell the entire mass.
> > I think that asking John would fall to you, or at
> > least a buyer.
> > I'm just curious to know why it hasn't been
> > submitted yet.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jason
> >
> > On 3/19/07, Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi Jason,
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=havana&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&phot=&pnt=no&code=11857
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:23:20 -0700
> > > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] correction on
> > illinois irons
> > > >
> > > > Hello Again All, Steve,
> > > > Well, you're...kind ofright.
> > > > Most people wouldn't qualify Havana as a
> > meteorite, seeing as all
> > > > that's known of it is a few little indian beads
> > made out of meteoric
> > > > iron.  Yes, it's true, they did turn out to have
> > a different chemical
> > > > composition than any known iron, but then again,
> > it was never
> > > > published in the meteoritical bulletin.
> > > > It would be something like calling
> > Fredericksburg (remember that
> > > > Hexahedrite from a few years ago?) an approved
> > meteorite - it's never
> > > > been mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so
> > how can you?
> > > > On that note, does anyone know why it was never
> > submitted?
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Jason
> > > >
> > > > On 3/19/07, steve arnold
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >> Hello list and good evening.Being from illinois
> > and
> > > >> having been to 3 of the state strewfields,there
> > are
> > > >> already 3 iron meteorites classified already in
> > > >> illinois.HAVANA (IIICD),SAINT AUGUSTINE
> > (IID),and
> > > >> finally WOODBINE (IAB).So if this was to be the
> > next
> > > >> iron from illinois,it would be the
> > FOURTH.3+1=4.I
> > > >> always thought that 4 year olds knew this
> > addition as
> > > >> well as 50 year olds.I guess not.
> > > >>
> > > >> Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
> > > >>  Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
> > > >>  www.chicagometeorites.net
> > > >>  Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
>

Re: [meteorite-list] Fredericksburg meteorite and politics of science

[drtanuki]

Open letter to the LIST and the NOMCOM and Meteoritics
Researchers,

Mike Farmer and others have brought up the question of
ethics and politics in meteoritics among researchers. 
Two examples that come to mind are Fredricksburg and
NWA 869.
  Does the NOMCOM have an ethics committte or a
special committe that is assigned to researching
scientific misconduct and other problems within the
research community and the NOMCOM itself?
  If you know of other research misconduct please feel
free to write about it on this list or privately.
  Thank you, Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo  

--- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> List members.
> I must express my disappointment with Jason for
> quipping that the fact that the Fredericksburg
> meteorite has not been classified, thus is not a
> meteorite. Jason, here are you exact words "It would
> be something like calling
> Fredericksburg (remember that Hexahedrite from a few
> years ago?) an approved meteorite - it's never been
> mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so how can
> you?"
> 
> Jason, you know it is a meteorite, and you know why
> it
> has not been approved. Politics and personal grudge
> has turned science into a farce. John Wasson at UCLA
> (the top iron meteorite scientist in the world"
> refuses to submit it since I bought it. He
> classified
> it, confirmed with the owner that it was a
> Hexahedrite
> that was not paired to any other known meteorite,
> and
> tried to buy it. He did not try very hard, as he had
> several years head-start on me. The owner sent many
> faxes and emails to Dr. Wasson, who did not respond
> for more than one year. Tired of waiting, the owner
> found me on eBay, called me, and we made a price. I
> was in Alaska only days later, cash in hand and saw
> the copies of emails. He told me he needed money and
> could no longer wait on UCLA, which did not return
> his
> emails/faxes and phone calls. The emails I saw were
> very clear, asking Dr. Wasson to get in touch with
> him
> and finalize a price and purchase agreement. Those
> phone calls, faxes, and emails all went unanswered
> for
> nearly a year.
> 
> Only days after announcing that I had bought the
> meteorite, I received a rather terse and abrupt
> email
> from Dr. Wasson, angry that I had bought "his
> meteorite" and he demanded a large piece for UCLA
> since they had done the work on the meteorite. I
> sent
> them an end cut weighing more than 500 grams
> (Perhaps
> as much as 800 grams, I can't remember because that
> was more than seven years ago). I never heard one
> more
> word from Dr. Wasson, not a "thank you" or anything.
> I
> emailed him numerous times requesting the
> classification data, with no response. I heard
> through
> other scientists that he was quite angry with me for
> buying what he felt was his meteorite. 
> It has now been more than seven years since I bought
> Fredericksburg, I don't even remember the exact
> year,
> but in that time, it has all been sold off. 
> 
> Did I leave anything out? Do you know more about
> this?
> Can I ask what you are calling me on? If UCLA could
> not make a decision or raise the funds years after
> knowing about this meteorite, then I think the loss
> was due to their own lack of interest and
> follow-through and ignoring the repeated requests of
> the man trying to sell them the meteorite. The owner
> needed money, and years
> after asking UCLA for it, decided to sell to myself.
> 
> So actually, more than seven years after I bought
> the
> meteorite, and provided  more than 500 grams to
> UCLA,
> Dr Wasson refuses to finish the job he started years
> before I ever heard of the meteorite. I guess
> politics
> triumphs over science in this case. 
> Pieces of the Fredericksburg meteorite are in
> collections and museums around the world. Mr Wasson
> has the data, so perhaps people who have bought this
> meteorite should start emailing Dr. Wasson, and ask
> him why he will not submit it a decade after doing
> the
> classification. My emails to him have gone
> unanswered,
> so I have to assume that any further attempts by me
> to
> get the data will meet the same fate.
> Michael Farmer
> 
> 
> This is a simple and complete history of the
> Fredericksburg meteorite from Texas.
> 
> 
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 

__
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Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons

[Mike Jensen]

Hi Michael
According to this article;
Formation of IIAB Irons By Wasson, J. T., Huber, Heinz & Malvin,
Daniel J. from GCA 71 (2007) 760-781
They state in appendix B that : "The 47-kg Fredericksburg (Texas) iron
was first reported to us by a person living in Alaska, who stated that
it had been inherited from a deceased relative who lived near
Fredericksburg. Our analysis of the sample shows that, within error,
its composition is the same as that of Richland (Texas) iron. Both
irons appear to be strongly weathered. However, these two Texas
locations are 297 km apart, farther apart than plausible for a strewn
field. Our best guess is that human transport has been involved, and
that they are fragments from the same fall. Fredericksburg is not an
approved name; we suggest that this mass be referred to as Richland
(Fredericksburg) unless future studies imply that it resulted from a
distinct fall."

They also have paired up several other irons but most well know is
Dutch Flat. They recommend treating it as paired with Sikhote-Alin.


--
Mike
--
Mike Jensen
Jensen Meteorites
16730 E Ada PL
Aurora, CO 80017-3137
303-337-4361
IMCA 4264
website: www.jensenmeteorites.com

On 3/19/07, Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Jason,
I have asked, many times. Mr Wasson has not done me
the courtesy of an answer. He was fast on the email
though, when I bought the meteorite, demanding a ~500
gram sample since UCLA had tried to buy the meteorite
for years before I bought it. There was one problem
though, they did not pay the owner of the meteorite.
The seller got tired of waiting for UCLA to actually
write a check after some years, and sold it to me.
This angered John Wasson and he obviously, refuses to
finish the classification because of that, even after
I sent him and endcut of more than 500 grams for free.
There is little I can do, so perhaps you could ask
about it.
Michael Farmer

--- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello Bill, All,
> You should read what you post - check the references
> section of your
> link and you get:
>
> Never published in the Meteoritical Bulletin
> Find references in NASA ADS
>
> Haha, don't think I don't do my research too ;)
> It's yet to be "published," just as I said.
>
> And Mike, it seems as if we've finally hit on
> something we disagree on -
> I didn't buy any piece of the meteorite, nor did I
> buy/sell the entire mass.
> I think that asking John would fall to you, or at
> least a buyer.
> I'm just curious to know why it hasn't been
> submitted yet.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
>
> On 3/19/07, Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi Jason,
> >
> >
>
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=havana&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&phot=&pnt=no&code=11857
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:23:20 -0700
> > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] correction on
> illinois irons
> > >
> > > Hello Again All, Steve,
> > > Well, you're...kind ofright.
> > > Most people wouldn't qualify Havana as a
> meteorite, seeing as all
> > > that's known of it is a few little indian beads
> made out of meteoric
> > > iron.  Yes, it's true, they did turn out to have
> a different chemical
> > > composition than any known iron, but then again,
> it was never
> > > published in the meteoritical bulletin.
> > > It would be something like calling
> Fredericksburg (remember that
> > > Hexahedrite from a few years ago?) an approved
> meteorite - it's never
> > > been mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so
> how can you?
> > > On that note, does anyone know why it was never
> submitted?
> > > Regards,
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > On 3/19/07, steve arnold
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> Hello list and good evening.Being from illinois
> and
> > >> having been to 3 of the state strewfields,there
> are
> > >> already 3 iron meteorites classified already in
> > >> illinois.HAVANA (IIICD),SAINT AUGUSTINE
> (IID),and
> > >> finally WOODBINE (IAB).So if this was to be the
> next
> > >> iron from illinois,it would be the
> FOURTH.3+1=4.I
> > >> always thought that 4 year olds knew this
> addition as
> > >> well as 50 year olds.I guess not.
> > >>
> > >> Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
> > >>  Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
> > >>  www.chicagometeorites.net
> > >>  Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
>

> > >> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> > >> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite
> travel sites to find flight
> > >> and hotel bargains.
> > >>
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
> > >> __
> > >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> > >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > >>
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteo

[meteorite-list] Fredericksburg meteorite and politics of science

[Michael Farmer]

List members.
I must express my disappointment with Jason for
quipping that the fact that the Fredericksburg
meteorite has not been classified, thus is not a
meteorite. Jason, here are you exact words "It would
be something like calling
Fredericksburg (remember that Hexahedrite from a few
years ago?) an approved meteorite - it's never been
mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so how can
you?"

Jason, you know it is a meteorite, and you know why it
has not been approved. Politics and personal grudge
has turned science into a farce. John Wasson at UCLA
(the top iron meteorite scientist in the world"
refuses to submit it since I bought it. He classified
it, confirmed with the owner that it was a Hexahedrite
that was not paired to any other known meteorite, and
tried to buy it. He did not try very hard, as he had
several years head-start on me. The owner sent many
faxes and emails to Dr. Wasson, who did not respond
for more than one year. Tired of waiting, the owner
found me on eBay, called me, and we made a price. I
was in Alaska only days later, cash in hand and saw
the copies of emails. He told me he needed money and
could no longer wait on UCLA, which did not return his
emails/faxes and phone calls. The emails I saw were
very clear, asking Dr. Wasson to get in touch with him
and finalize a price and purchase agreement. Those
phone calls, faxes, and emails all went unanswered for
nearly a year.

Only days after announcing that I had bought the
meteorite, I received a rather terse and abrupt email
from Dr. Wasson, angry that I had bought "his
meteorite" and he demanded a large piece for UCLA
since they had done the work on the meteorite. I sent
them an end cut weighing more than 500 grams (Perhaps
as much as 800 grams, I can't remember because that
was more than seven years ago). I never heard one more
word from Dr. Wasson, not a "thank you" or anything. I
emailed him numerous times requesting the
classification data, with no response. I heard through
other scientists that he was quite angry with me for
buying what he felt was his meteorite. 
It has now been more than seven years since I bought
Fredericksburg, I don't even remember the exact year,
but in that time, it has all been sold off. 

Did I leave anything out? Do you know more about this?
Can I ask what you are calling me on? If UCLA could
not make a decision or raise the funds years after
knowing about this meteorite, then I think the loss
was due to their own lack of interest and
follow-through and ignoring the repeated requests of
the man trying to sell them the meteorite. The owner
needed money, and years
after asking UCLA for it, decided to sell to myself. 
So actually, more than seven years after I bought the
meteorite, and provided  more than 500 grams to UCLA,
Dr Wasson refuses to finish the job he started years
before I ever heard of the meteorite. I guess politics
triumphs over science in this case. 
Pieces of the Fredericksburg meteorite are in
collections and museums around the world. Mr Wasson
has the data, so perhaps people who have bought this
meteorite should start emailing Dr. Wasson, and ask
him why he will not submit it a decade after doing the
classification. My emails to him have gone unanswered,
so I have to assume that any further attempts by me to
get the data will meet the same fate.
Michael Farmer


This is a simple and complete history of the
Fredericksburg meteorite from Texas.


__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons

[Jason Utas]

Hello Bill, All,
Whoops then, sorry - simply assumed it was public, as it pertained to
the subject at hand; didn't even look at the subject line, though I
did with Mike's following message...I'll get to that in a second.
My Apologies,
Jason

On 3/19/07, Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Ha Ha?

I send you a link, in private I might add, and I get haha? Did I make a 
comment? No. So what's funny?

Glad you enjoyed the pic.
Bill



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:36:49 -0700
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons
>
> Hello Bill, All,
> You should read what you post - check the references section of your
> link and you get:
>
> Never published in the Meteoritical Bulletin
> Find references in NASA ADS
>
> Haha, don't think I don't do my research too ;)
> It's yet to be "published," just as I said.
>
> And Mike, it seems as if we've finally hit on something we disagree on -
> I didn't buy any piece of the meteorite, nor did I buy/sell the entire
> mass.
> I think that asking John would fall to you, or at least a buyer.
> I'm just curious to know why it hasn't been submitted yet.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
>
> On 3/19/07, Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi Jason,
>>
>> 
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=havana&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&phot=&pnt=no&code=11857
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:23:20 -0700
>>> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons
>>>
>>> Hello Again All, Steve,
>>> Well, you're...kind ofright.
>>> Most people wouldn't qualify Havana as a meteorite, seeing as all
>>> that's known of it is a few little indian beads made out of meteoric
>>> iron.  Yes, it's true, they did turn out to have a different chemical
>>> composition than any known iron, but then again, it was never
>>> published in the meteoritical bulletin.
>>> It would be something like calling Fredericksburg (remember that
>>> Hexahedrite from a few years ago?) an approved meteorite - it's never
>>> been mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so how can you?
>>> On that note, does anyone know why it was never submitted?
>>> Regards,
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On 3/19/07, steve arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Hello list and good evening.Being from illinois and
 having been to 3 of the state strewfields,there are
 already 3 iron meteorites classified already in
 illinois.HAVANA (IIICD),SAINT AUGUSTINE (IID),and
 finally WOODBINE (IAB).So if this was to be the next
 iron from illinois,it would be the FOURTH.3+1=4.I
 always thought that 4 year olds knew this addition as
 well as 50 year olds.I guess not.

 Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
  Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
  www.chicagometeorites.net
  Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites




 

 Finding fabulous fares is fun.
 Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight
 and hotel bargains.
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 __
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

>>> __
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> 
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>> ... Win Free iPods, Movie Tickets or 1GB of Storage.
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Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons

[Bill]

Ha Ha?

I send you a link, in private I might add, and I get haha? Did I make a 
comment? No. So what's funny?

Glad you enjoyed the pic.
Bill



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:36:49 -0700
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons
> 
> Hello Bill, All,
> You should read what you post - check the references section of your
> link and you get:
> 
> Never published in the Meteoritical Bulletin
> Find references in NASA ADS
> 
> Haha, don't think I don't do my research too ;)
> It's yet to be "published," just as I said.
> 
> And Mike, it seems as if we've finally hit on something we disagree on -
> I didn't buy any piece of the meteorite, nor did I buy/sell the entire
> mass.
> I think that asking John would fall to you, or at least a buyer.
> I'm just curious to know why it hasn't been submitted yet.
> 
> Regards,
> Jason
> 
> On 3/19/07, Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi Jason,
>> 
>> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=havana&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&phot=&pnt=no&code=11857
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Bill
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:23:20 -0700
>>> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons
>>> 
>>> Hello Again All, Steve,
>>> Well, you're...kind ofright.
>>> Most people wouldn't qualify Havana as a meteorite, seeing as all
>>> that's known of it is a few little indian beads made out of meteoric
>>> iron.  Yes, it's true, they did turn out to have a different chemical
>>> composition than any known iron, but then again, it was never
>>> published in the meteoritical bulletin.
>>> It would be something like calling Fredericksburg (remember that
>>> Hexahedrite from a few years ago?) an approved meteorite - it's never
>>> been mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so how can you?
>>> On that note, does anyone know why it was never submitted?
>>> Regards,
>>> Jason
>>> 
>>> On 3/19/07, steve arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Hello list and good evening.Being from illinois and
 having been to 3 of the state strewfields,there are
 already 3 iron meteorites classified already in
 illinois.HAVANA (IIICD),SAINT AUGUSTINE (IID),and
 finally WOODBINE (IAB).So if this was to be the next
 iron from illinois,it would be the FOURTH.3+1=4.I
 always thought that 4 year olds knew this addition as
 well as 50 year olds.I guess not.
 
 Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
  Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
  www.chicagometeorites.net
  Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites
 
 
 
 
 
 Finding fabulous fares is fun.
 Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight
 and hotel bargains.
 http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
 __
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Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons

[Jason Utas]

Hello Bill, All,
You should read what you post - check the references section of your
link and you get:

Never published in the Meteoritical Bulletin
Find references in NASA ADS

Haha, don't think I don't do my research too ;)
It's yet to be "published," just as I said.

And Mike, it seems as if we've finally hit on something we disagree on -
I didn't buy any piece of the meteorite, nor did I buy/sell the entire mass.
I think that asking John would fall to you, or at least a buyer.
I'm just curious to know why it hasn't been submitted yet.

Regards,
Jason

On 3/19/07, Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Jason,

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=havana&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&phot=&pnt=no&code=11857

Regards,
Bill



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:23:20 -0700
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons
>
> Hello Again All, Steve,
> Well, you're...kind ofright.
> Most people wouldn't qualify Havana as a meteorite, seeing as all
> that's known of it is a few little indian beads made out of meteoric
> iron.  Yes, it's true, they did turn out to have a different chemical
> composition than any known iron, but then again, it was never
> published in the meteoritical bulletin.
> It would be something like calling Fredericksburg (remember that
> Hexahedrite from a few years ago?) an approved meteorite - it's never
> been mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so how can you?
> On that note, does anyone know why it was never submitted?
> Regards,
> Jason
>
> On 3/19/07, steve arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hello list and good evening.Being from illinois and
>> having been to 3 of the state strewfields,there are
>> already 3 iron meteorites classified already in
>> illinois.HAVANA (IIICD),SAINT AUGUSTINE (IID),and
>> finally WOODBINE (IAB).So if this was to be the next
>> iron from illinois,it would be the FOURTH.3+1=4.I
>> always thought that 4 year olds knew this addition as
>> well as 50 year olds.I guess not.
>>
>> Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
>>  Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
>>  www.chicagometeorites.net
>>  Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 

>> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
>> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight
>> and hotel bargains.
>> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
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>>
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[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - March 20, 2007

[SPACEROCKSINC]

http://www.spacerocksinc.com/March_20_2007.html  




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Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons

[Michael Farmer]

Jason, 
I have asked, many times. Mr Wasson has not done me
the courtesy of an answer. He was fast on the email
though, when I bought the meteorite, demanding a ~500
gram sample since UCLA had tried to buy the meteorite
for years before I bought it. There was one problem
though, they did not pay the owner of the meteorite.
The seller got tired of waiting for UCLA to actually
write a check after some years, and sold it to me.
This angered John Wasson and he obviously, refuses to
finish the classification because of that, even after
I sent him and endcut of more than 500 grams for free.
There is little I can do, so perhaps you could ask
about it. 
Michael Farmer

--- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello Bill, All,
> You should read what you post - check the references
> section of your
> link and you get:
> 
> Never published in the Meteoritical Bulletin
> Find references in NASA ADS
> 
> Haha, don't think I don't do my research too ;)
> It's yet to be "published," just as I said.
> 
> And Mike, it seems as if we've finally hit on
> something we disagree on -
> I didn't buy any piece of the meteorite, nor did I
> buy/sell the entire mass.
> I think that asking John would fall to you, or at
> least a buyer.
> I'm just curious to know why it hasn't been
> submitted yet.
> 
> Regards,
> Jason
> 
> On 3/19/07, Bill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi Jason,
> >
> >
>
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=havana&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&phot=&pnt=no&code=11857
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:23:20 -0700
> > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] correction on
> illinois irons
> > >
> > > Hello Again All, Steve,
> > > Well, you're...kind ofright.
> > > Most people wouldn't qualify Havana as a
> meteorite, seeing as all
> > > that's known of it is a few little indian beads
> made out of meteoric
> > > iron.  Yes, it's true, they did turn out to have
> a different chemical
> > > composition than any known iron, but then again,
> it was never
> > > published in the meteoritical bulletin.
> > > It would be something like calling
> Fredericksburg (remember that
> > > Hexahedrite from a few years ago?) an approved
> meteorite - it's never
> > > been mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so
> how can you?
> > > On that note, does anyone know why it was never
> submitted?
> > > Regards,
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > On 3/19/07, steve arnold
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> Hello list and good evening.Being from illinois
> and
> > >> having been to 3 of the state strewfields,there
> are
> > >> already 3 iron meteorites classified already in
> > >> illinois.HAVANA (IIICD),SAINT AUGUSTINE
> (IID),and
> > >> finally WOODBINE (IAB).So if this was to be the
> next
> > >> iron from illinois,it would be the
> FOURTH.3+1=4.I
> > >> always thought that 4 year olds knew this
> addition as
> > >> well as 50 year olds.I guess not.
> > >>
> > >> Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
> > >>  Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
> > >>  www.chicagometeorites.net
> > >>  Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
>

> > >> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> > >> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite
> travel sites to find flight
> > >> and hotel bargains.
> > >>
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
> > >> __
> > >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> > >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > >>
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >>
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> >
> >
>

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> > ... Win Free iPods, Movie Tickets or 1GB of
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Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons

[Michael Farmer]

Jason, you are friends with John Wasson, he has had
Fredericksburg in his possesion for more than five
years. 
Perhaps you could ask him why he refuses to submit it.
Michael Farmer

--- Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello Again All, Steve,
> Well, you're...kind ofright.
> Most people wouldn't qualify Havana as a meteorite,
> seeing as all
> that's known of it is a few little indian beads made
> out of meteoric
> iron.  Yes, it's true, they did turn out to have a
> different chemical
> composition than any known iron, but then again, it
> was never
> published in the meteoritical bulletin.
> It would be something like calling Fredericksburg
> (remember that
> Hexahedrite from a few years ago?) an approved
> meteorite - it's never
> been mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so how
> can you?
> On that note, does anyone know why it was never
> submitted?
> Regards,
> Jason
> 
> On 3/19/07, steve arnold
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hello list and good evening.Being from illinois
> and
> > having been to 3 of the state strewfields,there
> are
> > already 3 iron meteorites classified already in
> > illinois.HAVANA (IIICD),SAINT AUGUSTINE (IID),and
> > finally WOODBINE (IAB).So if this was to be the
> next
> > iron from illinois,it would be the FOURTH.3+1=4.I
> > always thought that 4 year olds knew this addition
> as
> > well as 50 year olds.I guess not.
> >
> > Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
> >  Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
> >  www.chicagometeorites.net
> >  Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

> > Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel
> sites to find flight and hotel bargains.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
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>
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Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons

[Jason Utas]

Hello Again All, Steve,
Well, you're...kind ofright.
Most people wouldn't qualify Havana as a meteorite, seeing as all
that's known of it is a few little indian beads made out of meteoric
iron.  Yes, it's true, they did turn out to have a different chemical
composition than any known iron, but then again, it was never
published in the meteoritical bulletin.
It would be something like calling Fredericksburg (remember that
Hexahedrite from a few years ago?) an approved meteorite - it's never
been mentioned in the bulletin or elsewhere, so how can you?
On that note, does anyone know why it was never submitted?
Regards,
Jason

On 3/19/07, steve arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello list and good evening.Being from illinois and
having been to 3 of the state strewfields,there are
already 3 iron meteorites classified already in
illinois.HAVANA (IIICD),SAINT AUGUSTINE (IID),and
finally WOODBINE (IAB).So if this was to be the next
iron from illinois,it would be the FOURTH.3+1=4.I
always thought that 4 year olds knew this addition as
well as 50 year olds.I guess not.

Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
 Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
 www.chicagometeorites.net
 Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites





Finding fabulous fares is fun.
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[meteorite-list] Iron Sulfide pictures

[MexicoDoug]

Dear Listees,

If anyone has any good photos of a reasonably large patch of 'pure' Iron
Sulfide (Troilite) that thoroughly melted/fused during entry but was
conserved on the surface of a relatively fresh fusion crust of a stony
meteorite, could you be so kind to post a photo of it?

Thanks and Best Health,
Doug

Verda Stelo Meteoritoj

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Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Illinois meteorite

[Jason Utas]

Elton, All,
Oh, give it a rest - read the Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites,
page 54, first paragraph.
...Every writer that I know of has stated that irons do possess fusion
crusts - Buchwald, Nininger, Norton, the list goes on.
Hell, I would've thought that the pictures of Tim Heitz's Chilean iron
would have shown youin case you haven't seen them, here:

http://www.meteorman.org/Oriented.htm

In any case, do what you want - hold your ground, etc - but I wouldn't
expect anyone to believe you when you claim to know better than these
such well regarded researchers in the field of meteoritics.
We know you don't think irons have fusion crusts.  Just about everyone
else does.  Get over it.

That said, I would say this object is probably not an iron meteorite,
though I must say it's better looking than the last two iron
'meteorites' to come along.

Jason


On 3/19/07, Mr EMan <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:

Sigh...So we are back again to Irons having "fusion"
crust.  Sorry I don't see the "fusion" crust.  Crust
or no, this aborted art project does not have the
hallmarks of being a meteorite.

The statement that said this will be the 3rd Iron from
Illinois sure came across as a meteorite announcement
that just foregone formality of investigation.  The
Vision Rock was also not a scam or hoax in the owner's
mind.

I guess we old timers are so cynical we'd demand a
bacteria count on the milk of human kindness.

Elton
--- Michael L Blood < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -- Forwarded Message
> From: "Barb Otto" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:09:34 -0600
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Illinois meteorite
>
> Michael,
> Please forward this message ... And thanks for
> helping me til I have no
> problems posting myself.
>
>
> Dear List,
>
> Nobody said that this is definitely a meteorite. The
> man who found the piece
> simply found it in his backyard while he was moving
> soil. He brought it to a
> rock shop because he thought it may be a meteorite.
> He is NOT claiming that it fell through his roof,
> crashed through a window
> or anything like that.
> The only reason that I told him it could be a
> meteorite and that it was
> worth testing is that it appears to have crust.
>
> So, please relax. This no scam, no hoax, nothing of
> the sort.
>
> Bob Evans
>
> -- End of Forwarded Message
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons

[Mr EMan]

Thank you Steve for that cogent analysis. I'll try to
not assume facts which are not in evidence.

As to understanding the math I totally agree.  I
remember a time when "one ad a day for a week plus
addemdums"( sometimes 2 per day) still equaled one ad
per week.  Must be that new darn math.

Elton
--- steve arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello list and good evening.Being from illinois and
> having been to 3 of the state strewfields,there are
> already 3 iron meteorites classified already in
> illinois.HAVANA (IIICD),SAINT AUGUSTINE (IID),and
> finally WOODBINE (IAB).So if this was to be the next
> iron from illinois,it would be the FOURTH.3+1=4.I
> always thought that 4 year olds knew this addition
> as well as 50 year olds.I guess not.
> 
> Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
>   Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
>   www.chicagometeorites.net
>   Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites
> 
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[meteorite-list] Musical websites (was large Tatahouine Sale)

[MexicoDoug]

Howard S. wrote:

"I find websites with music annoying. ... Music on a website = NO SALE to
me."

Dear Howard,

My incredibly big and beautiful Tatahouine specimen sales site is available
to you sound-free:
http://www.diogenite.com/t1ns.htm

You are absolutely right to be choosy about the sites you visit !

Please come and visit.  Sometimes things on the list like this hit me out of
left field.  Thanks to your comment, my website can be visited and
enthusiasts and scientists can and shop and enjoy the 'rites in a sound-free
virtual environment.

The original separate site with sound, of course, will remain available for
those that prefer it:
http://www.diogenite.com/t1.htm

At Green Star Meteorites (Verda Stelo Meteoritoj), YOU come first, and will
be served with the utmost respect and appreciation always from A to Z !  A
simple policy.

I have received many comments.  Thanks to the others who sent me off list
suggestions to improve the site, most of which have been implemented, though
I am still working on some from the last couple of days.  As mentioned
before, this is the first time I've needed to do this and your business,
comments and smiles are very much appreciated.  Any other improvements,
kindly send them to me privately as I had requested as a favor previously.
I have come to appreciate even more how hard sellers work to bring
meteorites into our homes.  Thank you!

Best Health,
Doug
http://www.diogenite.com/t1.htm (sound)
http://www.diogenite.com/t1ns.htm (sound-free)


- Original Message - 
From: "Howard Steffic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Saint Patrick's Day Bonanza ! SALE


> Does anyone else instantly leave a website as soon as the music starts?
>
> http://www.diogenite.com/t1.htm
>
> I find websites with music anoying.  They are even showing up on ebay for
> crying out loud.  A word to sellers:  If I want to listen to music, I will
> turn on the radio.
>
> Music on a website = NO SALE to me.
>
> Howard Steffic
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "MexicoDoug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Meteorite Mailing List" 
> >Subject: [meteorite-list] Saint Patrick's Day  Bonanza ! SALE
> >Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:54:16 -0600
> >
> >Dear Listees,
> >
> >http://www.diogenite.com/t1.htm
> >GREEN STAR METEORITES (a.k.a., Verda Stelo Meteoritoj)
> >
> >This is the BIGGER IS BETTER festive occasion.  And yes, mine is bigger!
> >The Luck of the Irish!  True achondrite green Mg-Fe colored Orthopyroxene
> >space crystals, some with nice cleavage.
> >
> >INTRODUCING...drum roll please ... (may I try one, can you tell I'm new
at
> >this?)  kindly see what's on the website and have fun, I'm inviting you
see
> >diogenites that make my dreams, and which I am now convinced do not grow
on
> >trees :-)  OK, I'll calm down and man the shop.
> >
> >It is with great pleasure that I kneel before you, for the first time
ever,
> >to offer some premium meteorites to the list.  You will see there is pot
of
> >green at the end of this rainbow!  Green for you (so you don't get a
> >pinch),
> >and green for me, to get out of a pinch.  I'll probably have a follow-up
> >offering with different specimens, as I expect to consolidate this over
the
> >next week.
> >
> >Sorry I have not built a serious web site in many years for this sort of
> >thing, so if it doesn't display properly on some browsers, please forgive
> >me
> >and if you could let me know privately that would be exceedingly
> >appreciated.
> >
> >Best Health and May the mischievous Leprechaun come your way...  (and the
> >trolls stay under the bridge)
> >Diogenite Doug
> >http://www.diogenite.com (see sale link above, it is not accessible from
> >the
> >main page)
> >
> >P.S. just email me about any details if you are interested in acquiring a
> >specimen.  The site will be significantly updated with all kinds of
> >relevant
> >info; I am having fun building it, though I'd rather be out dining with
the
> >diogenites, so I hope you enjoy them with me.
> >
> >__
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> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> _
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> quotes - *Terms
>
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[meteorite-list] correction on illinois irons

[steve arnold]

Hello list and good evening.Being from illinois and
having been to 3 of the state strewfields,there are
already 3 iron meteorites classified already in
illinois.HAVANA (IIICD),SAINT AUGUSTINE (IID),and
finally WOODBINE (IAB).So if this was to be the next
iron from illinois,it would be the FOURTH.3+1=4.I
always thought that 4 year olds knew this addition as
well as 50 year olds.I guess not.

Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
  Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
  www.chicagometeorites.net
  Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites



 

Finding fabulous fares is fun.  
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel 
bargains.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
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Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Illinois meteorite

[Mr EMan]

Sigh...So we are back again to Irons having "fusion"
crust.  Sorry I don't see the "fusion" crust.  Crust
or no, this aborted art project does not have the
hallmarks of being a meteorite.

The statement that said this will be the 3rd Iron from
Illinois sure came across as a meteorite announcement
that just foregone formality of investigation.  The
Vision Rock was also not a scam or hoax in the owner's
mind.  

I guess we old timers are so cynical we'd demand a
bacteria count on the milk of human kindness.

Elton
--- Michael L Blood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -- Forwarded Message
> From: "Barb Otto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:09:34 -0600
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Illinois meteorite
> 
> Michael,
> Please forward this message ... And thanks for
> helping me til I have no
> problems posting myself.
> 
> 
> Dear List,
> 
> Nobody said that this is definitely a meteorite. The
> man who found the piece
> simply found it in his backyard while he was moving
> soil. He brought it to a
> rock shop because he thought it may be a meteorite.
> He is NOT claiming that it fell through his roof,
> crashed through a window
> or anything like that.
> The only reason that I told him it could be a
> meteorite and that it was
> worth testing is that it appears to have crust.
> 
> So, please relax. This no scam, no hoax, nothing of
> the sort.
> 
> Bob Evans
> 
> -- End of Forwarded Message
> 
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>
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[meteorite-list] Ad - Holbrook Slice

[Thetoprok]

Hello List,

I have an ebay auction ending in about an hour and a  half. As of right now 
the slice can be had for just over a buck a gram! A great  deal may be in your 
future. A Free Micro Pic's CD is included.
 
_http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3
AIT&viewitem=&item=250093863093&rd=1&rd=1_ 
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&sspagename=STRK:MESE:IT&viewitem=&item=250093863093&rd=1&rd
=1) 


Thanks,
Larry





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Re: [meteorite-list] Topics for "collection of wisdoms"

[Gerald Flaherty]

Darren That SUCKS!
Jerry Flaherty
- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Garrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Topics for "collection of wisdoms"


On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:17:22 -0600, you wrote:


or sub-groups of stony meteorites.  I'm curious to know too... Most
articles I have read on Martian and Lunar pieces say they are not
attracted to a magnet.  Is this known to be without exception?


This seems to fit here:

http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn11406-magnetic-elephant-trunk-sucks-up-lunar-soil.html?DCMP=Matt_Sparkes&nsref=trunk

Magnetic 'elephant trunk' sucks up lunar soil
21:57 16 March 2007
NewScientist.com news service
David Shiga, Houston

Elephants' trunks are remarkable tools. Boasting more muscles than the human
body, the appendages can knock down trees and suck in several gallons of 
water,

spraying it into their owners' mouths or over their vast bodies.

Now, researchers say elephant trunk-like devices may be useful on the Moon, 
as
well. And they have developed a prototype of a magnetic, trunk-like tube 
that

can collect lunar soil without kicking up hazardous dust.

Future astronauts living on the Moon will need lots of water, oxygen and 
other

resources that can be extracted from the lunar soil, or regolith.

But collecting the large quantities needed with front-end loaders and dump
trucks could throw up a lot of dust. That could cause a host of problems, 
since
the tiny, jagged dust particles could clog machinery and even harm 
astronauts'

health if inhaled (see Martian dust may be hazardous to your health).

In a bid to solve the problem, Benjamin Eimer and Lawrence Taylor, both of 
the

University of Tennessee in Knoxville, US, are developing a magnetic device
designed to collect soil without creating clouds of the powdery dust. "This 
idea

is akin to a leaf sucker," Eimer told New Scientist.

Magnetic coils
The idea is to build a flexible tube with magnetic coils spaced at regular
intervals along its length. Because lunar soil particles contain a lot of 
iron,
the magnetic field produced by the coils would suck the soil into the tube 
and

whisk it along its length.

A relatively small tube would be used by an astronaut or robot to pick up 
soil
and feed it into a larger magnetic 'pipeline' leading back to storage 
facilities
or processing plants at the lunar base. Many of these flexible tubes could 
be

attached to the same pipeline - like veins in a leaf, allowing soil to be
collected from a large area.

And because the magnetic field channels the soil into the centre of the tube 
and
keeps it away from the tube's walls, it would prevent dust from escaping. 
"You

can move massive amounts of lunar regolith without kicking up all the dust,"
Eimer says.

Early tests suggest the plan will work. He and Taylor have built a small
prototype a few centimetres long that successfully picks up simulated lunar
soil.

Daniel Durda of the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colorado, US, 
says
developing ways to keep dust to a minimum is important. "It's a real 
concern,"
he told New Scientist. "Something like this is probably better than a bunch 
of

bulldozers picking it up and dumping it."

Temperature swings
The research was presented on Thursday at the Lunar and Planetary Society
Conference in Houston, Texas.

Another study presented on Thursday suggests burying lunar habitats could 
help
regulate their temperature. On the airless Moon, the surface bakes to over 
100º

Celsius during the day and plunges to a frigid -150º C at night.

But these wild temperature swings could be eliminated by burying a lunar 
habitat

with bags of lunar soil, according to a study led by Bela Boldoghy of
Ferroelektric Engineering Pan Konceptum in Budapest, Hungary.

Under 10 to 15 metres of lunar soil, the temperature would hover without 
further

intervention around -20º C. Although that is bitterly cold, the stable
temperature would make it much easier to regulate the base's thermostat.

Pre-bagged soil
"Minus 20 is not too difficult," study co-author Tamas Varga of the VTPatent
Agency in Budapest told New Scientist. "A lot of places on Earth are -20
degrees."

Burying the habitat with pre-bagged soil instead of simply dumping loose 
soil on
top of it would also avoid kicking up dust, the researchers say, adding that 
the

messy job of bagging the soil could be done far away from the base.

Durda says seesawing temperatures would not be a problem if the base was 
built

near the Moon's poles, where there are places permanently in shadow. But in
other regions it would be an issue, he says, and burying the habitat is one 
way

to deal with the temperature swings.

Regolith can also block hazardous energetic particles from space, he adds, 
so

burying "would have that added benefit of radiation protection".


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Re: [meteorite-list] 70th annual meeting of the Meteoritical Society

[Gerald Flaherty]

Great news Larry. Will look forward to meeting you there.
Jerry Flaherty
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Gerald Flaherty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 70th annual meeting of the Meteoritical 
Society




Hi Jerry:

I will be there (here)! I think Anne Black is also thinking of coming.

It is a dry heat.

Larry

On Mon, March 19, 2007 6:12 am, Gerald Flaherty wrote:

Good Monday Morning List,
Dawn and I plan to attend the 2007 Meteoritical Society Meeting at Tucson
August 13-17. We expect that much of the Science will no doubt be over 
our

 heads. Oddly enough, what inspired our decision were the pre and post
field trips which include Arizona birding, Meteor Crater and the Grand
Canyon
among other possible sites. David Kring will lead the geologic excursion
and Drew Barringer will be our host at the Crater. I understand that
temperature will impact our enjoyment but the positives seem worth the
discomfort. I wondered if any List members paln to attend?
Jerry Flaherty


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[meteorite-list] Sale Gibeon and many others

[AstronomicalResearchNetwork]

Retirement from Northwest Airlines has been difficult 
So I offer the list some specimens for Sale . 
Anything you see that you are interested in I will entertain 
reasonable offers ! Also anything on my website .

http://www.meteorites4sale.net/

1 . A complete 273 pound Gibeon meteorite . Museum quality
2.  A Imilac Slice 190g  120mm x 80mm x 5mm
3. 5g Cumberland Falls Slice
4. Dalgaranga 43g fresh  fusion crusted end cut  
   mesosiderite 50mmx 30mm x 10mm 
5. Millbillillie end cut beautiful black glossy crust 55mm x 30mm x 12mm
6. NWA 2968 Dunite .86g cut specimen fusion crusted !! 
7. NWA 3163 Lunar 1.004g slice 
8. Ibitira 5.4g part slice with black glossy fusion crust 
9. Sah 99555 augunite 3.45g crusted end cut 
10. NWA 2855 160g new CR complete ,oriented, and crusted !!
11  Sah 00020 11Kg Oriented , flow lines , large hole and black crust !! 
12  NWA2853 Howardite  860g  complete specimen  Beautiful !
13 NWA2845 Mesosiderite 1050 main mass Beautiful Large olive seen 
   through the crust . 
14 NWA2945 Mesosiderite  760g  complete mass museum quality !! 
15 NWA2965 EL6/7  10Kg lots  for  $3000 or 1Kg lots for $400 /Kg 
16 I have a 1.5kg Gao oriented Black crusted with a black interior 
I have not cut into it yet but it looks Very Special !!
These are just some of my fine specimens I am offering forsake . 
Life has not be kind and I must sell some of my meteorites again . 
Please take a look at my website  I will entertain any Reasonable offers 
Please contact me off the list I still have Comcast and do not receive the list direct !!
Best Regards Ken Regelman 
Astronomical Research Network 
http://www.meteorites4sale.net/
   
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Re: [meteorite-list] New Meteorite cold finds for January and March 2007

[Moni Waiblinger]

Impressive Sonny

and hi list-members,

this sure changes my mind, maybe I have to get a metal detector after all.
Nice finds!
14 inches below!
I believe you when you say you can't wait to see what the classification of 
the one is that is magnetic slightly more on one side than the other.

Maybe part of the core?
I am guessing, still so new at this and I know sometimes I write things off 
the wall.


Happy hunting,
Moni


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Meteorite cold finds for January and March 
2007

Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:19:22 -0400

Hi ,

Here are a couple of pictures of meteorite finds for 2007. The find for 
January appears to be a H 4-5 chondrite total weight 2.5 pounds. The second 
find from March 07 looks different than anything that I have ever found. It 
may turn out to be a L or LL chondrite or something better! It has a Flat 
black fusion crust with a dark brown interior, with very little or no metal 
showing.The interior is very porous.The chondrules appear to be a varying 
degree of lite brown. Now here comes the scientific part, the famous magnet 
test! On the cut slice that is 2"by 3" the magnet will not attract to it. 
On the meteorite the magnet will attract to a small portion of the cut 
surface and not to the rest of the cut area. I will have a thin section 
made next week. Man I hate waiting! the pictures are at the bottom of the 
page.



Sonny

http://www.nevadameteorites.com/recent_fids_page_2.htm

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[meteorite-list] Lunar Lawn Mower

[Stefan Brandes]

I see Sterling ;)

http://www.physorg.com/news8103.html

lunatic greetings
Stefan

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Re: [meteorite-list] Pnew Moona-ultramicroscopicsilicosi/moon rock

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Mark, List,

No nuclear reactors needed! Here's my idea of
the gizmo. You may have seen the little robotic
vacuum sweepers that are the rage. Well, imagine
a little robotic microwave oven with its bottom 
sawed off, mounted on wheels, and carrying a
square meter or so of solar panel above it like
an unbrella.

It's dedicated little brain will be programmed
to seek ground with loose soils (not microwaved
yet) and avoid ground with hard crusty soil (already
microwaved) within 50 meters of its "home base,"
to fry the dirt under it while moving at a rate that's
proportional to its energy flow (enough to solidify
the crust), to avoid others of its kind, to return to 
home base when energy declines (lunar night) and 
wait for more energy (lunar dawn).

Each one weighs 4.357 kilos. We take 1000 of
the little devils with us on every visit, set them out
40 meters apart, covering 1.5 square kilometers
of lunar plain. When we leave, they keep right on
crisping up the dusty landscape and turning it into 
lunar parking lot, until the whole area is finished.

Then, they go sleep, and their base units "wake 
up," lower their wheels, and migrate outward to
new positions outside and around the finished
square. Then, the base units wake up their roving
microwaves, who scurry (by their program) to
get within 50 meters of "their" home base, resume 
crisping, while the base units go back to sleep until 
the next "migration" is needed. 

And so, the Great Cycle of (Silicon) Life 
Goes On!

Every time we visit the Moon, we take another
1000 "Rover Ranges," or 500, whatever is handy.
They mindlessly continue to "crustify" the dusty
lunar landscape to make it useful to human purposes.
The real problem is not, will it work? No, the question
is, when do we stop them? Every flat spot within
10 klicks of the Lunar Base is hard and firm. 

Time to retire'em. No, we need the room for 
future expansion. When every flat spot within 20 
klicks of the Lunar Base is hard and firm, we move 
the "herd" 50 kilometers away to start in on the ground
for the Lunar Base Two and assign some of them
to strengthen the soil where the Mag-Lev train
between the two bases will run... By 2237, Luna 
City will post a bounty for rogue Rover Ranges
captured within the bounds of Luna County...
Dam little pests!


Sterling K. Webb
---
- Original Message - 
From: "mark ford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pnew Moona-ultramicroscopicsilicosi/moon rock



Hmm, ... this theory that's kicking around about melting moon dust with
a microwave oven- its all very well melting a few mg of moondust in a
1kW home microwave oven, but by my calculations to melt 1 ton of moon
dust you would need over 200MW of microwave power! So that's really
practical then.(if you have got a couple of spare PWR nuclear
reactors with you on the moon!!!)

On that note can anyone tell me if concrete sets in space?

Mark


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of doctor
death
Sent: 19 March 2007 17:25
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pnew Moona-ultramicroscopicsilicosis

Watch out for those sneezers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6460089.stm

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[meteorite-list] New Meteorite cold finds for January and March 2007

[wahlperry]

Hi ,

Here are a couple of pictures of meteorite finds for 2007. The find for 
January appears to be a H 4-5 chondrite total weight 2.5 pounds. The 
second find from March 07 looks different than anything that I have 
ever found. It may turn out to be a L or LL chondrite or something 
better! It has a Flat black fusion crust with a dark brown interior, 
with very little or no metal showing.The interior is very porous.The 
chondrules appear to be a varying degree of lite brown. Now here comes 
the scientific part, the famous magnet test! On the cut slice that is 
2"by 3" the magnet will not attract to it. On the meteorite the magnet 
will attract to a small portion of the cut surface and not to the rest 
of the cut area. I will have a thin section made next week. Man I hate 
waiting! the pictures are at the bottom of the page.



Sonny

http://www.nevadameteorites.com/recent_fids_page_2.htm

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Re: [meteorite-list] Mr. Kramskoi & Meteorite Offers from Russia

[MexicoDoug]

Sterling wrote:

"Hi, Mike, List, I have to quarrel with your arithmetic, Mike."

Hi Sterling, Please don't quarrel with Mike's thoughts, there's been enough
quarreling and provocations already.  No arithmetic intended nor was he
referencing PT Barnum, etc.  (Interesting post, Susan!)

It was in response only one person chasing "obviously too good to be true
Internet deals" in earnest.  Rather than bemusing how many suckers are in
the world, it suggested in a relatively tactful way that (one) (person) born
(on July 24) got suckered (out of 100 Euros).

The only predicate you could logically dispute in an ancillary manner, is
whether you think there is a day when a sucker weren't born.  That could
prove difficult.  Unless you are a paleontologist who wants to extrapolate
into the past and believes there weren't enough gullible dinosaurs,etc. on
order to be eaten for dinner :-)...Or I suppose you could dispute whether it
weren't a sucker's deal (hehehe, good luck, amigo, though we can hope for
him)

Logically, Mike's statement with quantifiers might be illustrated like:

(There exists) a sucker is born (for each) day.

It doesn't restrict, as in your logically flawed and inaccurate repetition
which formed the basis for and assumption investigated in your post:
(One and only one sucker) is born every day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_quantification

A thought is born every day,
Back to meteorites,
Best Health,
Doug

- Original Message - 
From: "Sterling K. Webb"
To: "Michael Farmer" Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mr. Kramskoi & Meteorite Offers from Russia


> Hi, Mike, List,
>
> I have to quarrel with your arithmetic, Mike.
> A sucker a day is only 365 new suckers a year,
> and the population of suckers is far too great to
> have been created at that rate.
> The great Phineas T. Barnum is the source
> of that quote, and I believe that he said, "There's
> a sucker born every minute," Even that is only
> 525,960 new suckers a year, which sounds a
> little on the shy side to me. But I'll take old
> Phineas' word for it; he knew his suckers.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> -
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Michael Farmer"
> To: "M come Meteorite Meteorites"
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 10:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mr. Kramskoi & Meteorite Offers from Russia
>
>
> A sucker is born every day.
> Michael Farmer
>
>
>
>
>

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[meteorite-list] FW: Illinois meteorite

[Michael L Blood]

-- Forwarded Message
From: "Barb Otto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:09:34 -0600
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Illinois meteorite

Michael,
Please forward this message ... And thanks for helping me til I have no
problems posting myself.


Dear List,

Nobody said that this is definitely a meteorite. The man who found the piece
simply found it in his backyard while he was moving soil. He brought it to a
rock shop because he thought it may be a meteorite.
He is NOT claiming that it fell through his roof, crashed through a window
or anything like that.
The only reason that I told him it could be a meteorite and that it was
worth testing is that it appears to have crust.

So, please relax. This no scam, no hoax, nothing of the sort.

Bob Evans

-- End of Forwarded Message

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Re: [meteorite-list] Pnew Moona-ultramicroscopicsilicosi/moon rock

[mark ford]

Hmm, ... this theory that's kicking around about melting moon dust with
a microwave oven- its all very well melting a few mg of moondust in a
1kW home microwave oven, but by my calculations to melt 1 ton of moon
dust you would need over 200MW of microwave power! So that's really
practical then.(if you have got a couple of spare PWR nuclear
reactors with you on the moon!!!)

On that note can anyone tell me if concrete sets in space?

Mark


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of doctor
death
Sent: 19 March 2007 17:25
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pnew Moona-ultramicroscopicsilicosis

Watch out for those sneezers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6460089.stm

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Re: [meteorite-list] Pnew Moona-ultramicroscopicsilicosi/moon rock

[mark ford]

Hmm, ... this theory that's kicking around about melting moon dust with
a microwave oven- its all very well melting a few mg of moondust in a
1kW home microwave oven, but by my calculations to melt 1 ton of mood
dust you would need over 200MW of microwave power! So that's really
practical then.(if you have got a couple of spare PWR nuclear
reactors with you on the moon!!!)

On that note can anyone tell me if concrete sets in space?

Mark


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of doctor
death
Sent: 19 March 2007 17:25
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pnew Moona-ultramicroscopicsilicosis

Watch out for those sneezers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6460089.stm

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Re: [meteorite-list] Mr. Kramskoi & Meteorite Offers from Russia

[batkol]

P. T. Barnum Never Did Say
"There's a Sucker Born Every Minute"
By R. J. Brown
Editor-in-Chief

P. T. Barnum is most often associated with the circus sideshow and the 
display of freaks. While this is true, he is also the founding force behind 
one of America's most famous circuses: Barnum & Bailey Circus. Barnum is 
also affiliated with the famous quote "There's a sucker born every minute." 
History, unfortunately, has misdirected this quotation. Barnum never did say 
it. Actually, it was said by his competitor. Here's the incredible story.


From 1866 until 1868 Mr. George Hull, of Binghamton, New York studied 
archeology and paleontology. Over this period of time Hull contemplated how 
to pull off a hoax. It seems that many an evangelist at the time had been 
preaching that there were giants in the earth. In June of 1868 Hull traveled 
back to Fort Dodge, Iowa where there was a gypsum quarry he had recalled 
seeing two years earlier. Even then, he had noticed that the dark blue 
streaks running through the soft lime rock resembled human veins. Realizing 
this its appearance was tailor-made for his hoax and it was easy to carve, 
Hull hired a group of quarry workers to cut off a slab measuring twelve feet 
long, four feet wide and two feet thick.


In November, Hull had his gypsum wrapped in canvas and hoisted onto a wagon. 
Since the nearest railroad was forty miles away, it proved to be a long, 
difficult job. He then had the slab of gypsum shipped by rail to Chicago 
where he had hired a stone cutter named Edward Burghardt to carve a giant. 
Burghardt and his two assistants, were sworn to secrecy and agreed to work 
on the piece in a secluded barn during their off hours and Sundays. The 
instructions were to carve the giant as if it had died in great pain, and 
the final result was an eerie figure, slightly twisted in apparent agony, 
with his right hand clutching his stomach. All of the details were there; 
toenails, fingernails, nostrils, sex organs and so forth. Even a needlepoint 
mallet was used to add authentic-looking skin pores. When the carving was 
done, sulfuric acid and ink were used to make the figure look aged.


The giant finished, Hull then had the figure shipped by rail to the farm of 
William Newell, his cousin, located near the town of Cardiff, New York. In 
the dead of night, Hull, Newell and his oldest son buried the giant between 
the barn and house. They were instructed to say nothing about it and that 
Hull would let them know in about a year of what the next stage was.


Luckily, about six months later, on another farm near the Newell's, some 
million year-old fossil bones were dug up. Newspapers around the country 
reported the finding. Hull was filled with glee in reading the accounts.


True to his word, one year after burying the giant, Hull sent word to his 
cousin on October 15, 1869, to start the next stage of the hoax. Newell 
hired two laborers to dig a new well near his home. Newell directed them to 
the exact spot he wanted the well dug and went back into the house to 
wait -- anxiously. Sure enough, well into the day, the two laborers rushed 
up to the house to announce their discovery: a giant turned to stone! The 
laborers and both Newells carefully excavated the area surrounding the 
giant.


News of this amazing discovery spread throughout the valley and soon wagon 
loads of neighbors streamed into Newell's farm to see the giant. By 
mid-afternoon, Newell erected a tent around the "grave" and started charging 
25 cent admission. Two days later, the Syracuse Journal (New York) printed 
an article about the discovery. Being greedy, Newell raised the price to 50 
cents, and a stage coach company made four round trips a day from Syracuse 
to the Newell farm. Thousands came every day. Among the visitors were 
clergymen, college professors and distinguished scientists. Before long, the 
expert's opinions split into two theories; one side claimed it was a true 
fossilized human giant and the other side pronounced it an authentic ancient 
statue. No one asserted that it was a fake!


About ten days after the discovery, and about the time the Cardiff Giant, as 
the papers had named it, started receiving national attention, Hull sold 
two-thirds interest in the giant for $30,000 to a five-man syndicate in 
Syracuse, the head of which was a banker named David Hannum. The syndicate 
moved the giant to an exhibition hall in Syracuse and raised the admission 
price to a dollar a head. Unknown to them, P. T. Barnum sent an agent to see 
the giant and make an assessment. The particular Sunday the representative 
saw the giant, the crowds were abnormally large -- about 3,000 people. The 
agent wired the news back to Barnum and Barnum instructed him to make an 
offer of $50,000 to buy it. Hannum turned his offer down.


The Cardiff Giant was the most talked about exhibit in the nation. Barnum 
wanted the giant to display himself while the attraction was still a hot 
topic of 

Re: [meteorite-list] Mr. Kramskoi & Meteorite Offers from Russia

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Mike, List,

I have to quarrel with your arithmetic, Mike.
A sucker a day is only 365 new suckers a year,
and the population of suckers is far too great to
have been created at that rate.
The great Phineas T. Barnum is the source
of that quote, and I believe that he said, "There's
a sucker born every minute," Even that is only
525,960 new suckers a year, which sounds a
little on the shy side to me. But I'll take old
Phineas' word for it; he knew his suckers.


Sterling K. Webb
-
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Notkin" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List" 
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mr. Kramskoi & Meteorite Offers from Russia


A sucker is born every day.
Michael Farmer






-- M come Meteorite Meteorites
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I doubt a nigerian scam continue to send you emails
> with photos etcand is not real this person ask
> immediatly $800 of contract, I have sent 100 euro
> and
> now I want seen what arrive
>
> Matteo
>
> --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha
> scritto:
>
> > Geoff, this is another form of Nigerian scam. They
> > are
> > now getting on ebay, finding items that sell,
> > learning
> > about them, then ripping people off who are
> gullible
> > enough to send money to people they do not know.
> > This
> > has been on the news lately.
> > These guys plan to take your $800.00 then you will
> > never hear from them again. The same people are
> > likely
> > sending the same emails to people for coins,
> > fossils,
> > and anything else of value from Russia that people
> > might actually want to buy.
> > Buy from people you know, or suffer the
> > consequences.
> > Michael Farmer
> > --- Notkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Listees:
> > >
> > > Greetings all.
> > >
> > > Thank you to those of you who replied off-List
> to
> > my
> > > post inquiring
> > > about a Mr. Kramskoi.
> > >
> > > The following information may be of interest to
> to
> > > any List members who
> > > have received a recent offer from Russia about
> > > meteorites for sale:
> > >
> > > 1) A significant number meteorite dealers and
> > > collectors, around the
> > > world, have been contacted by email by a person
> > > representing himself as
> > > Mr. Aleksandr Kramskoi supposedly of Kramskoi
> Law
> > > Firm in Moscow. He
> > > states he is selling meteorite specimens in
> order
> > to
> > > raise funds for
> > > the Kanatnaya Doroga Charity Foundation
> > (supposedly
> > > an orphanage) in
> > > Russia.
> > >
> > > 2) Mr. Kramskoi has offered for sale Lunar
> > specimens
> > > from the Russian
> > > Luna missions, and some very attractive
> > > Sikhote-Alins, apparently from
> > > an old collection. He has emailed photos of
> these
> > > specimens to numerous
> > > people. Mr. Kramskoi offered to send me 4.5 kg
> of
> > > Sikhote-Alins, "so
> > > you can inspect it carefully and give a fair
> price
> > > for these items."
> > > Once I agreed to receive the specimens for
> > > inspection, he then emailed
> > > me an elaborate contract and asked for $800 in
> > > advance as a "contract
> > > fee."
> > >
> > > 3) Mr. Kramskoi stated that after receiving the
> > $800
> > > from me, he would
> > > ship the Sikhote-Alins by UPS or Fedex and that
> > upon
> > > receipt I would
> > > have 180 days to pay the balance. I found the
> > length
> > > of time allowed
> > > for payment to be suspicious.
> > >
> > > 4) A well-respected List member, and
> professional
> > > colleague of mine in
> > > Europe, was offered the same pieces and the same
> > > contract, at the same
> > > time, though for a different price.
> > >
> > > 5) My colleague has a reliable friend in Russia
> > who
> > > has established
> > > that the address provided by Mr. Kramskoi for
> his
> > > law office does not
> > > exist.
> > >
> > > 6) My colleague and I both declined to enter
> into
> > > any form of
> > > transaction with Mr. Kramskoi, and I post this
> > > information so anyone
> > > else who is thinking of doing business with him
> > will
> > > be able to form
> > > their own conclusions before sending any money
> to
> > > Russia.
> > >
> > > Anyone wanting more detailed information, please
> > > contact me off-List. I
> > > can tell you about another great offer I
> received
> > > from Nigeria  : )
> > >
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Geoff N.
> > > www.aerolite.org
> > >
> > > __
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > >
> >
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
>
> M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
> Via Triestin

[meteorite-list] Pnew Moona-ultramicroscopicsilicosis

[doctor death]

Watch out for those sneezers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6460089.stm

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Re: [meteorite-list] 70th annual meeting of the Meteoritical Society

[lebofsky]

Hi Jerry:

I will be there (here)! I think Anne Black is also thinking of coming.

It is a dry heat.

Larry

On Mon, March 19, 2007 6:12 am, Gerald Flaherty wrote:
> Good Monday Morning List,
> Dawn and I plan to attend the 2007 Meteoritical Society Meeting at Tucson
> August 13-17. We expect that much of the Science will no doubt be over our
>  heads. Oddly enough, what inspired our decision were the pre and post
> field trips which include Arizona birding, Meteor Crater and the Grand
> Canyon
> among other possible sites. David Kring will lead the geologic excursion
> and Drew Barringer will be our host at the Crater. I understand that
> temperature will impact our enjoyment but the positives seem worth the
> discomfort. I wondered if any List members paln to attend?
> Jerry Flaherty
>
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>


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Re: [meteorite-list] Mr. Kramskoi & Meteorite Offers from Russia

[Michael Farmer]

http://meteoriteguy.com/ebayauctionstockphotos/car.jpg

Matteo, here is a photo of a Ferrari I have for sale.
Send me 500 Euros, then I will send you a contract for
purchase and shipping details. 
I am selling this car for charity for little starving
children.
See how easy that is?
Michael Farmer



> -- M come Meteorite Meteorites
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I doubt a nigerian scam continue to send you
> emails
> > with photos etcand is not real this person ask
> > immediatly $800 of contract, I have sent 100 euro
> > and
> > now I want seen what arrive
> > 
> > Matteo
> > 
> > --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha
> > scritto:
> > 
> > > Geoff, this is another form of Nigerian scam.
> They
> > > are
> > > now getting on ebay, finding items that sell,
> > > learning
> > > about them, then ripping people off who are
> > gullible
> > > enough to send money to people they do not know.
> > > This
> > > has been on the news lately.
> > > These guys plan to take your $800.00 then you
> will
> > > never hear from them again. The same people are
> > > likely
> > > sending the same emails to people for coins,
> > > fossils,
> > > and anything else of value from Russia that
> people
> > > might actually want to buy. 
> > > Buy from people you know, or suffer the
> > > consequences.
> > > Michael Farmer
> > > --- Notkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Dear Listees:
> > > > 
> > > > Greetings all.
> > > > 
> > > > Thank you to those of you who replied off-List
> > to
> > > my
> > > > post inquiring 
> > > > about a Mr. Kramskoi.
> > > > 
> > > > The following information may be of interest
> to
> > to
> > > > any List members who 
> > > > have received a recent offer from Russia about
> > > > meteorites for sale:
> > > > 
> > > > 1) A significant number meteorite dealers and
> > > > collectors, around the 
> > > > world, have been contacted by email by a
> person
> > > > representing himself as 
> > > > Mr. Aleksandr Kramskoi supposedly of Kramskoi
> > Law
> > > > Firm in Moscow. He 
> > > > states he is selling meteorite specimens in
> > order
> > > to
> > > > raise funds for 
> > > > the Kanatnaya Doroga Charity Foundation
> > > (supposedly
> > > > an orphanage) in 
> > > > Russia.
> > > > 
> > > > 2) Mr. Kramskoi has offered for sale Lunar
> > > specimens
> > > > from the Russian 
> > > > Luna missions, and some very attractive
> > > > Sikhote-Alins, apparently from 
> > > > an old collection. He has emailed photos of
> > these
> > > > specimens to numerous 
> > > > people. Mr. Kramskoi offered to send me 4.5 kg
> > of
> > > > Sikhote-Alins, "so 
> > > > you can inspect it carefully and give a fair
> > price
> > > > for these items." 
> > > > Once I agreed to receive the specimens for
> > > > inspection, he then emailed 
> > > > me an elaborate contract and asked for $800 in
> > > > advance as a "contract 
> > > > fee."
> > > > 
> > > > 3) Mr. Kramskoi stated that after receiving
> the
> > > $800
> > > > from me, he would 
> > > > ship the Sikhote-Alins by UPS or Fedex and
> that
> > > upon
> > > > receipt I would 
> > > > have 180 days to pay the balance. I found the
> > > length
> > > > of time allowed 
> > > > for payment to be suspicious.
> > > > 
> > > > 4) A well-respected List member, and
> > professional
> > > > colleague of mine in 
> > > > Europe, was offered the same pieces and the
> same
> > > > contract, at the same 
> > > > time, though for a different price.
> > > > 
> > > > 5) My colleague has a reliable friend in
> Russia
> > > who
> > > > has established 
> > > > that the address provided by Mr. Kramskoi for
> > his
> > > > law office does not 
> > > > exist.
> > > > 
> > > > 6) My colleague and I both declined to enter
> > into
> > > > any form of 
> > > > transaction with Mr. Kramskoi, and I post this
> > > > information so anyone 
> > > > else who is thinking of doing business with
> him
> > > will
> > > > be able to form 
> > > > their own conclusions before sending any money
> > to
> > > > Russia.
> > > > 
> > > > Anyone wanting more detailed information,
> please
> > > > contact me off-List. I 
> > > > can tell you about another great offer I
> > received
> > > > from Nigeria  : )
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > > 
> > > > Geoff N.
> > > > www.aerolite.org
> > > > 
> > > > __
> > > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > __
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > >
> >
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
> > Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA,
> > ITALY
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it 
> > Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
> > MSN Messanger: spacerocks at

[meteorite-list] AD - Gather Around The Good Stuff - Auctions Ending!

[Adam Hupe]

Dear List Members,

I have several excellent auctions ending this
afternoon.  I loaded some outstanding examples and
started them out at just 99 cents, some worth
hundreds! Don't forget SERIAL NUMBER ONE of the 230
piece Campo Coin series is running, a chance of a
lifetime for some lucky collector.  I loaded some
excellent Sikhote Alins up including some with holes
and one with a small impact crater. I will be loading
a special 10-day auction while I am away from the 21st
to the 29th so be sure to check in again once today's
auctions are completed.  There are plenty of specimens
still at bargain level pricing representing some true
value!

NOTE:  This is a short note to let you know that I
will be out of town from March 21st to the 29th.  I
will ship items out immediately if paid before the
20th otherwise I will not be able to ship until after
I return.  I hope this does not cause any
inconvenience.  In this case, prompt payment after
today's auctions end would be greatly appreciated

To see all of the too numerous to list outstanding
auctions, click on this link. Several of these still
have no bid and are at the opening price of  just 99
cents so be sure to check them out:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZraremeteorites

Check out some of these highlights:

SERIAL NUMBER 1, ONE , UNO CAMPO COIN!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140095963083

An Outstanding Sculptural Mundrabilla Iron, DUMBBELL
SHAPED:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140095971775

A Nice Chunk Of NWA 3163 Lunar Meteorite Started At
Just 99 Cents:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140093663368

Ureilite Main Mass - Too Awesome To Properly Describe,
A Bargain:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140096009292

A Sampling of Oriented Sikhote Alins:
360 Degree Radial Flow-lines:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140096010594
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140096011995
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140096011348

Oriented Sikhote With IMPACT CRATER:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140096012671

A Sikhote With An Ablation HOLE:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140096013214

And don't forget to check out the more than 100 other
great items at this link:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZraremeteorites


Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good
luck.


Best Regards,


Adam Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Mr. Kramskoi & Meteorite Offers from Russia

[Michael Farmer]

A sucker is born every day. 
Michael Farmer






-- M come Meteorite Meteorites
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I doubt a nigerian scam continue to send you emails
> with photos etcand is not real this person ask
> immediatly $800 of contract, I have sent 100 euro
> and
> now I want seen what arrive
> 
> Matteo
> 
> --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha
> scritto:
> 
> > Geoff, this is another form of Nigerian scam. They
> > are
> > now getting on ebay, finding items that sell,
> > learning
> > about them, then ripping people off who are
> gullible
> > enough to send money to people they do not know.
> > This
> > has been on the news lately.
> > These guys plan to take your $800.00 then you will
> > never hear from them again. The same people are
> > likely
> > sending the same emails to people for coins,
> > fossils,
> > and anything else of value from Russia that people
> > might actually want to buy. 
> > Buy from people you know, or suffer the
> > consequences.
> > Michael Farmer
> > --- Notkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > Dear Listees:
> > > 
> > > Greetings all.
> > > 
> > > Thank you to those of you who replied off-List
> to
> > my
> > > post inquiring 
> > > about a Mr. Kramskoi.
> > > 
> > > The following information may be of interest to
> to
> > > any List members who 
> > > have received a recent offer from Russia about
> > > meteorites for sale:
> > > 
> > > 1) A significant number meteorite dealers and
> > > collectors, around the 
> > > world, have been contacted by email by a person
> > > representing himself as 
> > > Mr. Aleksandr Kramskoi supposedly of Kramskoi
> Law
> > > Firm in Moscow. He 
> > > states he is selling meteorite specimens in
> order
> > to
> > > raise funds for 
> > > the Kanatnaya Doroga Charity Foundation
> > (supposedly
> > > an orphanage) in 
> > > Russia.
> > > 
> > > 2) Mr. Kramskoi has offered for sale Lunar
> > specimens
> > > from the Russian 
> > > Luna missions, and some very attractive
> > > Sikhote-Alins, apparently from 
> > > an old collection. He has emailed photos of
> these
> > > specimens to numerous 
> > > people. Mr. Kramskoi offered to send me 4.5 kg
> of
> > > Sikhote-Alins, "so 
> > > you can inspect it carefully and give a fair
> price
> > > for these items." 
> > > Once I agreed to receive the specimens for
> > > inspection, he then emailed 
> > > me an elaborate contract and asked for $800 in
> > > advance as a "contract 
> > > fee."
> > > 
> > > 3) Mr. Kramskoi stated that after receiving the
> > $800
> > > from me, he would 
> > > ship the Sikhote-Alins by UPS or Fedex and that
> > upon
> > > receipt I would 
> > > have 180 days to pay the balance. I found the
> > length
> > > of time allowed 
> > > for payment to be suspicious.
> > > 
> > > 4) A well-respected List member, and
> professional
> > > colleague of mine in 
> > > Europe, was offered the same pieces and the same
> > > contract, at the same 
> > > time, though for a different price.
> > > 
> > > 5) My colleague has a reliable friend in Russia
> > who
> > > has established 
> > > that the address provided by Mr. Kramskoi for
> his
> > > law office does not 
> > > exist.
> > > 
> > > 6) My colleague and I both declined to enter
> into
> > > any form of 
> > > transaction with Mr. Kramskoi, and I post this
> > > information so anyone 
> > > else who is thinking of doing business with him
> > will
> > > be able to form 
> > > their own conclusions before sending any money
> to
> > > Russia.
> > > 
> > > Anyone wanting more detailed information, please
> > > contact me off-List. I 
> > > can tell you about another great offer I
> received
> > > from Nigeria  : )
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Sincerely,
> > > 
> > > Geoff N.
> > > www.aerolite.org
> > > 
> > > __
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > >
> >
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > 
> > 
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
> Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA,
> ITALY
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it 
> Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
> MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com
>
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/
> 
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   
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> http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] Topics for "collection of wisdoms"

[Darren Garrison]

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:17:22 -0600, you wrote:

>or sub-groups of stony meteorites.  I'm curious to know too... Most  
>articles I have read on Martian and Lunar pieces say they are not  
>attracted to a magnet.  Is this known to be without exception?

This seems to fit here:

http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn11406-magnetic-elephant-trunk-sucks-up-lunar-soil.html?DCMP=Matt_Sparkes&nsref=trunk

Magnetic 'elephant trunk' sucks up lunar soil
21:57 16 March 2007 
NewScientist.com news service 
David Shiga, Houston 

Elephants' trunks are remarkable tools. Boasting more muscles than the human
body, the appendages can knock down trees and suck in several gallons of water,
spraying it into their owners' mouths or over their vast bodies. 

Now, researchers say elephant trunk-like devices may be useful on the Moon, as
well. And they have developed a prototype of a magnetic, trunk-like tube that
can collect lunar soil without kicking up hazardous dust.

Future astronauts living on the Moon will need lots of water, oxygen and other
resources that can be extracted from the lunar soil, or regolith.

But collecting the large quantities needed with front-end loaders and dump
trucks could throw up a lot of dust. That could cause a host of problems, since
the tiny, jagged dust particles could clog machinery and even harm astronauts'
health if inhaled (see Martian dust may be hazardous to your health).

In a bid to solve the problem, Benjamin Eimer and Lawrence Taylor, both of the
University of Tennessee in Knoxville, US, are developing a magnetic device
designed to collect soil without creating clouds of the powdery dust. "This idea
is akin to a leaf sucker," Eimer told New Scientist.

Magnetic coils
The idea is to build a flexible tube with magnetic coils spaced at regular
intervals along its length. Because lunar soil particles contain a lot of iron,
the magnetic field produced by the coils would suck the soil into the tube and
whisk it along its length.

A relatively small tube would be used by an astronaut or robot to pick up soil
and feed it into a larger magnetic 'pipeline' leading back to storage facilities
or processing plants at the lunar base. Many of these flexible tubes could be
attached to the same pipeline – like veins in a leaf, allowing soil to be
collected from a large area.

And because the magnetic field channels the soil into the centre of the tube and
keeps it away from the tube's walls, it would prevent dust from escaping. "You
can move massive amounts of lunar regolith without kicking up all the dust,"
Eimer says.

Early tests suggest the plan will work. He and Taylor have built a small
prototype a few centimetres long that successfully picks up simulated lunar
soil.

Daniel Durda of the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colorado, US, says
developing ways to keep dust to a minimum is important. "It's a real concern,"
he told New Scientist. "Something like this is probably better than a bunch of
bulldozers picking it up and dumping it."

Temperature swings
The research was presented on Thursday at the Lunar and Planetary Society
Conference in Houston, Texas.

Another study presented on Thursday suggests burying lunar habitats could help
regulate their temperature. On the airless Moon, the surface bakes to over 100º
Celsius during the day and plunges to a frigid -150º C at night.

But these wild temperature swings could be eliminated by burying a lunar habitat
with bags of lunar soil, according to a study led by Bela Boldoghy of
Ferroelektric Engineering Pan Konceptum in Budapest, Hungary.

Under 10 to 15 metres of lunar soil, the temperature would hover without further
intervention around -20º C. Although that is bitterly cold, the stable
temperature would make it much easier to regulate the base's thermostat. 

Pre-bagged soil
"Minus 20 is not too difficult," study co-author Tamas Varga of the VTPatent
Agency in Budapest told New Scientist. "A lot of places on Earth are -20
degrees."

Burying the habitat with pre-bagged soil instead of simply dumping loose soil on
top of it would also avoid kicking up dust, the researchers say, adding that the
messy job of bagging the soil could be done far away from the base.

Durda says seesawing temperatures would not be a problem if the base was built
near the Moon's poles, where there are places permanently in shadow. But in
other regions it would be an issue, he says, and burying the habitat is one way
to deal with the temperature swings. 

Regolith can also block hazardous energetic particles from space, he adds, so
burying "would have that added benefit of radiation protection". 


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[meteorite-list] OT final word from Ireland on St Paddys

[emeraldisleminerals]

List,Steve
I am Irish,born and bred and everyone calls it St Paddys day

lets hear no more of this nonsense please.Back to meteorites
Jim Brady

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[meteorite-list] 70th annual meeting of the Meteoritical Society

[Gerald Flaherty]

Good Monday Morning List,
Dawn and I plan to attend the 2007 Meteoritical Society Meeting at Tucson 
August 13-17. We expect that much of the Science will no doubt be over our 
heads. Oddly enough, what inspired our decision were the pre and post field 
trips which include Arizona birding, Meteor Crater and the Grand Canyon 
among other possible sites.
David Kring will lead the geologic excursion and Drew Barringer will be our 
host at the Crater.
I understand that temperature will impact our enjoyment but the positives 
seem worth the discomfort.

I wondered if any List members paln to attend?
Jerry Flaherty 


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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites forsale (AD)

[Kevin Forbes]

Dunk them in the pond,

everybody knows that flibbertigibbets are made from wood, if they are 
innocent they will sink.


I demand a shrubbery.

Neeeii

Kevin.


From: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Dave Carothers" 
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Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites forsale (AD)
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Dave,

The term Steve used is "St. Paddy's Day."
He did not call anybody a "paddy." He not
refer to any ethnicity nor nationality. He used
the closest English language transliteration of
a person's actual name as pronounced by the
people of the nation of which he (Padric or
Padraigh, not Steve) is the patron saint, and
the term most frequently used by those
individuals to whom it matters most.

Do you have similar views about Dewi Sant?
"Dewi" is pronounced "Davy" and refers to
the patron saint of Wales, Saint David, feast
celebrated on March 1 (and which 87% of
the Welsh people say ought to be a holiday).
Am I gonna be in big trouble if I ask you
if you had a good St. Davy's Day?

And if offensive is not defined by usage,
linguistic origin, historical application, the
intent of the speaker, nor the acceptability
to those potentially offended, what in blue
blazes does define "offense"?

You?

And if imaginary registration in a roll of
inherently offensive terms, without the application
of history, language, usage, and feelings as
requirements, is not an example of the most
mindless PC Culture, then nothing is.

Where can I obtain a copy of this totally
authoritative but mystically known-only-
to-you list of offenses? Can I find it on
the internet, write off for it, or do I have to
consult the nearest flaming shrubbery?


Sterling K. Webb
--
- Original Message -
From: "Dave Carothers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;

Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites forsale (AD)


Sterling, Mike, and all,

Go back and read my post again.  I did not "bash" Steve.  I merely stated
that he needed to be careful using a term that is deemed offensive.  
NOTHING

MORE!  Don't make more of this than it is.

Whether you personally are of Irish ancestory or not, is not the issue.  It
is not a "PC" issue and it has nothing to do with whether a group of people
are in the "majority" or not.

The term is still offensive and polite people do not use the term.

Dave

- Original