Re: [meteorite-list] IRONS, Orient and literature
Hi E.P., List! Maybe useful, this should be the reference E.P. talks about (correct spelling): REITER, K.: Die Metalle im Alten Orient unter besonderer Berücksichtigung altbabylonischer Quellen (Münster 1997) (In: Orientalia Nova Series 69 [Rom: Pontificium Institutum Biblicum] 2000, 110-115) Merry Christmas and a happy and peaceful new year! Ingo -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von E.P. Grondine Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. Dezember 2007 06:46 An: Sterling K. Webb; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] ARCTIC IRONS, was Mammoth Stew, etc Hi all - Thank you Sterling for this most valuable information. I did not cover the Arctic in Man and Impact in the Americas, as I already had too much. I do want to mention to the list that the locals have been attempting to have The Old Woman and another large iron returned to them. I was asked to support them in this effort, but declined. The reason for my decision was that they had used it for making tools, a very different situation from Williamette, where the use was religious. I was told that Perry had told the locals that it was okay for him to remove the large irons, as they could now get their tools from European traders. To the conquerors go the spoils One may wonder about an iron debris stream, with multiple impacts, but... Hittite iron and ancient meteoritic iron was covered by Karen Reiter, Die Metalle in Alte Oriente(? spelling etc.). I've forgotten most of the specifics now, but... The Hittite King Te Hantilishi and his appenage forces were hit ca. 1585 BCE while resisting the ancient Israelites, and the ancient Israelites had a good supply of iron for trade thereafter, not to be replaced by smelted stuff until about 1100 BCE, if I remember right, and I probably don't, but its in her book. (Coincidentally, ancient metals was a specialty of my acquaintance the late Ted Wertime.) The Lycian accounts spoke of a shower of small irons like bees (no citation for this remaining in my brain, even though I corresponded with the translator. sorry). Earlier use of iron meteorites for tools easily explains the lack of irons from NWA, which I had attributed to market forces. Given the arctic harvesting for tool use, clearly one place to look is Alaskan archaeological and west coast archaeological studies - but then with the constant back and forth and the later fur trade, any find may have been dismissed as an import. The glacial situation ca 31,000 BCE might be a good thing to look at as well. The mammoth who had their tusks peppered had to be eating something, so they would have been on the edge of the ice sheet. Assuming the Barringer spherule spread is representative, scale the impact by the C14 calibration chart, and that may give a rough idea of the range to be looked at. There's that 1 find from Siberia as well, which might indicate direction. good hunting all, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Stuff
Hola All, 1) Thanks Darren, and others who messaged me in private. 2) Pete, By making such a message public, you most certainly meant it to be offensive; otherwise, you would have addressed it privately. You meant for everyone to see it, whether or not you gave the post adequate thought before posting it... That said, what I've been saying all along is that one simply can't draw solid conclusions from a *lack of evidence.* I haven't had any premeditated ideas about what caused these dust layers/extinctions. I openly admitted several times that I have no bloody idea what did it. I do, however, know some statistics, as well as physics, both of which point towards certain scenarios being either highly unlikely or, physically speaking, impossible. I'm not saying that certain events didn't necessarily happen. In most cases, it's easy enough to say that the observed effects do not match a given possibility for what did, according to E.P., occur. My issue isn't with such events occurring (unless we're talking about a 1km body vaporizing like Tunguska, because, in terms of physics, I simply don't see why such a body would vaporize before striking the ground), but rather with the fact that he isn't looking at evidence objectively, and also isn't being open-minded when it comes to all of the possible scenarios that could create the observed geologic results. Because of a lack of solid evidence for any conclusion at this point in time, simply put, no firm conclusions can be drawn. And you call me biasedmaybe to the 'theory' that KE = 1/2mv^2, I suppose. I've only been arguing based on impact dynamics and known facts. E.P., in case you didn't notice, was the one pulling airbursts and craters out from 'twixt his cheeks. Admittedly, some of what I said could probably have been better-explained, and I did mix-up 30 degrees from horizontal vs vertical, but even Sterling made some mistakes in the discussion; it's complex stuff that not many of us deal with on a day-to-day basis, and as such, I'm of the opinion that ideas should be thrown around - with the general acceptance that such ideas are nothing more than theory and are in no way to be called 'facts.' Because saying that would be *wrong.* I love how you refer to me in the third-person as well...I find it...interesting. Merry Christmas, Jason On Dec 24, 2007 7:35 PM, Peter A Shugar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It was not meant to offensive, but more of a comment on his stubborn refusal to look at tons of evidence that is so contrary to only his view. Or put this way, Jason against the world. If you can't convince the world to adopt your way of seeing things, then maybe it's time for you to change your views. This the whole world but me is wrong is a refusal to adapt and mayhap even learn something. Just watching and reading the MANY comments has given me a education I never could have afforded to go to college for. I do not want to sound as if I am a know-it-all because I am not. I want to learn, so when I bring my meteorite collection to school, I can make a presentation that will both instruct and inspire the kids to want to learn more. In order to do this I need to be willing to CHANGE MY MIND when the facts don't fit my way of thinking. This means to change the way I view the theory instead of trying to make the theory fit my point of view. If I can not adapt to this new theory, then I will admit to being two tacos and a burrito short of a combination plate myself. In addition, I will admit to being a stubborn old Coot. .I will apologize to the extent that I didn't mean to hurt him, but maybe to jar him into listening and becoming more rational in his reasoning. Pete __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Jason
Darren wrote When faced with a question he doesn't like, the one who Jason debates either 1.) ignores the question 2.) gives a tangental answer or 3.) implies (or outright states) that anyone who doesn't draw the same conclusion as him is stupid. E.P. wrote Since the one in this post refers to me,... E.P., I'm surprised even you recognised you are described. Andi -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von E.P. Grondine Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. Dezember 2007 07:13 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Jason Hi all, Since the one in this post refers to me, I feel a need to respond. What has consistently irritated me is Jason putting words about airburst into my mouth. When I say airburst, you know it. For example, when I say arrogant racist, you know it. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas When faced with a question he doesn't like, the one who Jason debates either 1.) ignores the question 2.) gives a tangental answer or 3.) implies (or outright states) that anyone who doesn't draw the same conclusion as him is stupid. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!
Good Morning list-members, may you all have a very relaxing and enjoyable Christmas morning and day! And did you find the 'perfect gift' underneath the tree? Happy day and Smiles, Moni _ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!
Allow me to join in wishing a most joyful Christmas to all. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Moni Waiblinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 9:46 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas and a happy New Year! Good Morning list-members, may you all have a very relaxing and enjoyable Christmas morning and day! And did you find the 'perfect gift' underneath the tree? Happy day and Smiles, Moni _ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Jason
Jason, In public I say this- As you should have seen, it was address to an individual, and not to the list. Therefore it was intended not to be for everyone but for just the one person. What happened was that I pushed the wrong button. Even I make mistakes. This Is the very reason That I send this post to the list. Nuff said. Pete __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Merry Xmas Need a Diamond Blade Rec.
Merry Christmas All !!! Can someone recommend a good Diamond Blade? I need a 10 with 5/8 Arbor. Thanks, Bob __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Merry Xmas Need a Diamond Blade Rec.
Merry christmas to everybody also. My opinion is pro slicer is the best. And after buying many tons of NWAs I have gone through lots of saw blades and pretty much tried them all. The worst I ever tried was ADVANTAGE which sort of falls apart as you watch it sitting on a shelf like a Nantan. There is a model of MK that is about 50% better than pro slicer but double the cost - making pro slicer your best buy dollar for dollar. My opinion anyway Cheers DEAN --- Bob Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Merry Christmas All !!! Can someone recommend a good Diamond Blade? I need a 10 with 5/8 Arbor. Thanks, Bob __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: NWA'S ONLY $25 A KILO
$25 is actually below my cost but I have been accumulating quite a bit of low grade weathered meteorites over the past year and have been picking out nicer looking ones so its OK for me to sell them below my cost. They havent really been checked over much and I havent gone over them with a magnet (Although if you want I will go over them with a magnet to ensure a minimun level of magnetism). These are a variety of falls and often I cut them finding really nice cut surfaces (And sometimes they are weathered to the core - its sort of hit or miss). So they are not pretty but certainly cheap enough. Maybe you can take this opportunity to buy your very own saw as you would have lots of fun cutting these (I certainly do - but one can only cut so much). NOTE: METEORITES ARE SMALL AND MANY UNDER 10 GRAMS AND ALMOST ALL UNDER 50 GRAMS. NO BIG ONES. The only downside is that postage is very expensive here in new zealand and costs me about $20 a kilo to ship. But if you want quantity I can send 9 kilos fed ex for $150 and $15 a kilo above that. I have ample supply so if anybody is interested just paypal me the $25 plus $20 a kilo postage (Or if you want lots the fed ex shipping rate) to this email address. If somebody has a courier account and can get shipping cheaper feel free to arrange your own shipping. I am not making any money off the shipping (Or - for that matter, of the meteorites either) so it doesnt matter to me how they are shipped. To australia shipping probably marginally lower. Cheers DEAN http://www.meteoriteshop.com AMUNRE on Ebay . Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Some questions about meteorites that are still not official
I would say less organized than myself, and that is bad. Some things he finishes in days, some years, some never. Michael Farmer --- Christian Anger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mike, is Ted Bunch unreliable ? Nevertheless, many thanks for your answer Mike. Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Michael Farmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 8:55 PM To: Christian Anger; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Some questions about meteorites that are still not official Christian, I have been trying to get Lampayrie/Batiawo as I called it, classified and accepted for years. I gave Ted Bunch samples at least 3 years ago, and he lost it, or forgot about it, whatever, it seems it need sot go to someone else to work on. I still have about 1 kilos of beautiful fragments from a large stone, and I sold the main mass, over 2 kilos to one of my good customers. This one fell through the cracks. Cerro Mesa is in the same crack/Black Hole with Ted Bunch. Michael Farmer --- Christian Anger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Does anybody have any information about following meteorites ? There are names but they are not official ? Does anybody know a current status of each of them ? Do they become official ? Have there been sent samples for classification by anybody ? Huaytiquina, Argentinia Balcarce, Argentinia Cerro Mesa, Argentinia Lampayrie, Burkina Faso best Christmas wishes from Austria, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Some questions about meteorites that are still not official
Hi all, Does anybody have any information about following meteorites ? There are names but they are not official ? Does anybody know a current status of each of them ? Do they become official ? Have there been sent samples for classification by anybody ? Huaytiquina, Argentinia Balcarce, Argentinia Cerro Mesa, Argentinia Lampayrie, Burkina Faso best Christmas wishes from Austria, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Merry Christmas to all, and perhaps America's X-mas eve meteorite fall!
Hi everyone, I hope all are having a great holiday. Great news, perhaps the USA had it's very own Barwell, a Christmas Eve meteorite fall last night! Michael Farmer All over Central Oregon, folks spot fireball KTVZ - Bend,OR,USA Or maybe just a meteorite in the making? All across Central Oregon last night, there were reports of a fireball seen streaking to the ground. ... See all stories on this topic Strange light in the sky spotted in Sparks on Christmas Eve http://www.ktvz.com/Global/story.asp?S=7541098 KRNV - Reno,NV,USA Washoe County sheriff's deputies and search and rescue team members think they may be looking for a meteorite. A caller told the sheriff's office of seeing ... http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7541004nav=8faO __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Some questions about meteorites that are still not official
Christian, I have been trying to get Lampayrie/Batiawo as I called it, classified and accepted for years. I gave Ted Bunch samples at least 3 years ago, and he lost it, or forgot about it, whatever, it seems it need sot go to someone else to work on. I still have about 1 kilos of beautiful fragments from a large stone, and I sold the main mass, over 2 kilos to one of my good customers. This one fell through the cracks. Cerro Mesa is in the same crack/Black Hole with Ted Bunch. Michael Farmer --- Christian Anger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Does anybody have any information about following meteorites ? There are names but they are not official ? Does anybody know a current status of each of them ? Do they become official ? Have there been sent samples for classification by anybody ? Huaytiquina, Argentinia Balcarce, Argentinia Cerro Mesa, Argentinia Lampayrie, Burkina Faso best Christmas wishes from Austria, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Some questions about meteorites that are still not official
Hi Mike, is Ted Bunch unreliable ? Nevertheless, many thanks for your answer Mike. Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Michael Farmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 8:55 PM To: Christian Anger; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Some questions about meteorites that are still not official Christian, I have been trying to get Lampayrie/Batiawo as I called it, classified and accepted for years. I gave Ted Bunch samples at least 3 years ago, and he lost it, or forgot about it, whatever, it seems it need sot go to someone else to work on. I still have about 1 kilos of beautiful fragments from a large stone, and I sold the main mass, over 2 kilos to one of my good customers. This one fell through the cracks. Cerro Mesa is in the same crack/Black Hole with Ted Bunch. Michael Farmer --- Christian Anger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Does anybody have any information about following meteorites ? There are names but they are not official ? Does anybody know a current status of each of them ? Do they become official ? Have there been sent samples for classification by anybody ? Huaytiquina, Argentinia Balcarce, Argentinia Cerro Mesa, Argentinia Lampayrie, Burkina Faso best Christmas wishes from Austria, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Stuff
Hi, Jason, EP, List, Jason wrote: unless we're talking about a 1km body vaporizing like Tunguska, because, in terms of physics, I simply don't see why such a body would vaporize before striking the ground... Relying on intuition rather than numbers is always risky. It helps to model the event in question. You have to interpret the results sometimes, but it's a big help to understanding an event. There's a really good tool available for getting the feel of the impact parameters that might produce a certain kind of result. For example, any 1000-meter impactor that airbursts has to be very weak and fragile for that to happen. So, you go to: The Online Impact Calculator: http://lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ [The full discussion of the parameters of impact used in the LPL model are in this document: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~marcus/CollinsEtAl2005.pdf ] You start with an iceball 1000 meters in diameter with a density of 1.0. It multiply fragments 55 miles up, without the fragments losing much speed at all. When you look at the documentation, you will note that the online calculator does not follow the fate of fragments, so the model says nothing about what happens to them. Obviously, a fragment in the same place at the same speed as the original body will suffer same fate: it will fragment, and its fragments will fragment... That's an airburst, or at least a :rolling series of them. What you do get is a crater, though not big and not deep, from the high energies of the event in the atmosphere. Well, cometary bodies, particularly pristine ones that formed as very small bodies, are not fully dense. They are poorly consolidated; the technical term is fluffy! :-) Their density is less than 1.0 (also true of some small asteroidal bodies; made of rock, yet with densities less than 1.0). In a porous icy body, the density could be much lower. Some individual cometary dust particles have densities of 0.01, a kind of whispy dust. If we lower and lower the density we use in the model, the energy falls off with the mass, the altitude of the breakup goes up and up, to 80 miles or more, the craters vanish despite energies that are still a Gigaton of TNT. We are left with an airburst that would have tremendous atmospheric effects. It would deposit a few 100 billions of tons of fine dust at the top of the atmosphere (60 to 80 miles up) to persist for years with climatically destructive results. (You like sunshine?) The interesting thing is that the investigation of such events, looking for them in the historical record, and attempting to find evidence for them, has been more active in Europe than in the US. There is apparently a cultural style in preferred impacts to worry about. We Americans seem to prefer to worry about the big hammer, the hard rock pounding the planet, and dismiss any event that doesn't resemble the movie Armageddon so much. We don't want to mess around with any subtle scenarios; we want Apophis! This is not to say that such non-cratering catastrophes are popular in Europe; they're often pooh-poohed even when there's substantial evidence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_changes_of_535%E2%80%93536 Before you know it, the US attitude leads to the If it didn't leave a crater, who cares? The answer to that is: everybody who eats food, when all food production ceases for two years, for example. That sunshine is a handy thing to have, if you plan to eat. (Well, at least it would cure global warming.) I don't think it takes a great deal of head-scratching and sophisticated agricultural economics to calculate what percent of a population dies if 90% of your food crop fails (and 90% of your livestock isn't fed and so forth). After you use up all your canned goods, after the environmentalists have hunted to extinction every edible species, threatened or not, what do you do? (Please, bring your movie scripts around to the back door...) Jason, you made a lot of fun of EP for his reference to a 90% death rate. It's true that EP paints sketchily and with a broad brush. I'll grant you that. I dug up his original reference at the end of an email. It goes like this: ...comet impact which killed about 90% of the people living in North America at the time. Most died due to hunger. But then, there's not likely to be any strewn field from that... He just bounced through (in three sentences) the events I have spent (way too) many paragraphs connecting. Yes, it's an hypothesis, not a fact. In this area where solar system mechanics and human history intersects, EVERYTHING is an hypothesis. Some we like better than others, though; we're not really dispassionate about them, and rarely treat them equally. There's even a piece of evidence for his hypothesis which he hasn't mentioned (yet). At some point in the distant past, ten to twenty thousand years ago, there was a drastic reduction in the population ancestral to native Americans. It shows up in
Re: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas to all, and perhaps America's X-mas eve meteorite fall!
Gosh! Do I win a piece from my earlier posting if this is found See my earlier email from November below. Merry Christmas to everyone. We have alot to be thankful for. Mike Mike Groetz mpg444 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 25 19:40:16 EST 2007 Lets hope for a big meteorite fall somewhere in the United States for Christmas! I think we are due for one. We could have our own Barwell then. Mike --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I hope all are having a great holiday. Great news, perhaps the USA had it's very own Barwell, a Christmas Eve meteorite fall last night! Michael Farmer All over Central Oregon, folks spot fireball KTVZ - Bend,OR,USA Or maybe just a meteorite in the making? All across Central Oregon last night, there were reports of a fireball seen streaking to the ground. ... See all stories on this topic Strange light in the sky spotted in Sparks on Christmas Eve http://www.ktvz.com/Global/story.asp?S=7541098 KRNV - Reno,NV,USA Washoe County sheriff's deputies and search and rescue team members think they may be looking for a meteorite. A caller told the sheriff's office of seeing ... http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7541004nav=8faO __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] A tale for all
Dear Listees, Here's a kind wish from us for peace and happiness, especially those who have had a difficult year, for renewed hope and happiness. Written over home-made egg nog (commercially nearly impossible to find in Mexico), I hope it is still ok in the morning... The Tale of Happy Once upon a time there lived a very, very happy man. So happy was he, his mommy feeling his kicks of the knee, named him Happy, she said, while he was still inside of me. He was truly happy: Happily married, with a happy wife Holly, and happy children, all in good health, both mind and happy spirits as he happily worked hunting hazelnuts in his hometown of Häppilä (Happila). One cold, clear December evening, the happy family sat eating a Happy Meal, between the warmth by their comforting brick oven and picture window in the dining room, his youngest son happily exhaulted, Look out the window, Papi Happy! It's a shooting star! To which his wife, gleefully replied, Hurry, Happy, have a wish! --any wish- any hope your heart could have! Happy, humming, hopped to the window, and hoped all his hopes in his head, hurling up his hands as the shooting star hissed through the heavens. But, unseen and unheard, Happy shook his head held high, as the shooting star still shone by. He'd been so happy that he had not a humble hope hidden in all of his happy head. Halted by disappointment, the first time in his life: In that final fling of the falling thing, he fought till he fished his wish, leaving unfinished his dinners' dish as the food trickled from the mouths of his astonished kids. In a flash he flew, through the front door making his dash, and fixed his sight upon the fleeting light, throughout its rumbling path to its finale in a cacophonic crash. Happy, following the Northern Crown through the hummocks and hollows, conquering the permafrost and absence of swallows; found and beheld in Oulu, a freckled-sad owl named Filbert, who called. The sole witness to the whole fiery finish, this Bubo was perched upon an ancient conifer tall, felled during the frightful fall. Near a hole in a crumbling wall, Filbert Boohuu'ed and balled how he'd been gathering nuts with his she-owl, Kuulta, when his home was struck just after the light had stalled. His family in ruin, such was his tune, a hollow lamenting lullaby under the Moon, that not Eagle was he, without his great tree -at the Finnish of it - his home wasn't fit, not even for a Siberian Tit. Happy thought for a while, and suddenly returned to his smile. He signaled to Filbert to lift himself high, and take his family up in the sky. For the Owl, still had his might, as well as powerful flight, a loving family, and the finest gift of all, splendid sight! With his mate at his side, Filbert filled Happy watching below with pride. Especially sharp were the owl's childrens' eyes, beneath the pale light of the Moon of several nights' rise, were gathered enough meteorites to fill a large bog with barrels and barrels, of Lunar egg nog. In exchange for these treasures Happy proposed some fair measures. First a cup of hazelnut tea, and an agreement to hollow out a new, much greater tree. Next was a gift to Filbert of the Moon's weight in the sweetest hazelnuts prime, used to attract any rat who couldn't refuse at any time. At home with prizes, once again he was his children' smiles to behold, Happy shared in more egg nog and mirth and smiled ever brighter since birth. He tossed his barrels of happy treasure across the halls of his workshop to distribute unmeasured. Holly and he retired together to dream Happy's hope forever, to bring peace, happiness and joy to all creatures of the world, great and small, well, almost, except the poor rats. ...And especially of Filbert and Kuulta who lived in their prayers since that magical plight, dining well, once again, happily, in the northern Moonlight. Best wishes, Great Health, and Life - Original Message - From: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas to all,and perhaps America's X-mas eve meteorite fall! Gosh! Do I win a piece from my earlier posting if this is found See my earlier email from November below. Merry Christmas to everyone. We have alot to be thankful for. Mike Mike Groetz mpg444 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 25 19:40:16 EST 2007 Lets hope for a big meteorite fall somewhere in the United States for Christmas! I think we are due for one. We could have our own Barwell then. Mike --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I hope all are having a great holiday. Great news, perhaps the USA had it's very own Barwell, a Christmas Eve meteorite fall last night! Michael Farmer All over Central Oregon, folks spot fireball KTVZ - Bend,OR,USA Or
Re: [meteorite-list] Some questions about meteorites that are still not official
Hi Mike and Christian, Ted has sat on a sample I sent him (although I doubt it was a meteorite). Never got back to me when I asked him about it and I gave him plenty of time and would have gladly paid him for at least giving me his professional opinion. Needless to say the people involved at very upset with me and him. That will be the last sample I send to him. --AL Mitterling Michael Farmer wrote: I would say less organized than myself, and that is bad. Some things he finishes in days, some years, some never. Michael Farmer --- Christian Anger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mike, is Ted Bunch unreliable ? Nevertheless, many thanks for your answer Mike. Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A tale for all
Doug, List, That was a wonderful tale to read tonight, very creative. Thanks Doug! Merry Christmas to All, Larry Atkins **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What a Joke ?
Ok, Who's responsible for this joke ? http://cgi.ebay.com/Alien-meteorite-rock_W0QQitemZ330199804697QQihZ014QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD- Rare Historic Fall, Hammer Stone,etc.
Hello List, Please take a moment to take a look at the following meteorites for auction. All started at 1 cent w/ no reserve. Park Forest Hammer w/ fresh crust Ensishiem Bovedy Zulu Queen Claxton Plymouth Vermillion Happy Canyon Etc. All can be seen here : http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmaccers531 Thanks, Bob __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What a Joke ?
Hi, Well, I tell you, when the Aliens come to Earth, they fly right past New York and Paris, they avoid Beijing and Tokyo. They steer away from the bright lights and all those exciting things and they head straight for Bayou LaFourche! When they land their UFO on the bayou, it float there just like a pirogue on the bayou, except UFO's are so light that it want to drift away real easy. So, the Aliens gotta have an anchor for their UFO so it don't get lost on the current. They bring these rocks from their home planet and they tie a rope real tight around the rock and they toss it out the back door of the UFO and that's their anchor. To us, this rock look just like some dumb old rock, but to the Aliens, these are very special rocks. Most all the rocks on the Alien planet, they're alive, see, and worse, they're telepathic! If the Aliens took one of them and brought it to Earth and it got left behind, then we Earthlings could ask it questions, telepathically, you see, and then we'd learn all about the Aliens. So, they are real careful to bring only Dumb Rocks to the Earth, 'cause they don't want us to find out about'em. Dumb Rocks are rare on the Alien planet. Most of the rocks there are real blabbermouths. But Dumb Rocks are just like the rocks here on Earth -- they just Dumb Rocks, don't know nothing and can't talk. The Aliens test a lot of their rocks to be sure they've got a Dumb Rock. But it's very hard to be sure. Sometimes, a Rock ain't Dumb; he just don't feel like talking. So, now that they've lost this Rock here on Earth, they are real worried. Maybe that Rock ain't so Dumb after all... They're worried so bad because this eBay Seller, he knows that this is an Alien Rock! How could he know that? No way... Unless the Rock told him! They don't have no choice -- they have to get this Alien Rock back. So they are going to pay $150,000 for the Rock, and that is going to be one lucky eBay Seller, get that $150,000 from PayPal ET. But the joke is on those Aliens. 'Cause this ain't nothin but One Dumb Rock after all. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Bob Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 6:45 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] What a Joke ? Ok, Who's responsible for this joke ? http://cgi.ebay.com/Alien-meteorite-rock_W0QQitemZ330199804697QQihZ014QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorites make the best Christmas Gifts
These aren't really Christmas gifts since I'm the one who either bought them or made them but they did show up on Christmas Eve so they felt like gifts . I have added the following spheres to my collection: NWA 791(L-6), Dhofar 1289 (L-4) and a Canyon Diablo Graphite To see them click this http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Spheres/NewAdditions.jpg The Graphite is without a doubt one of the most interesting spheres in my collection and when you consider it's size of 50mm and the fact that graphite nodules this big are hard to come by I consider it to be very unique and rare You can see larger pictures of each sphere at: http://home.ec.rr.com/bobadebt/50mil.htm Comment are welcome Thank you and Merry Christmas PS: sorry for the poor picture quality. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Teaching Meteorite Stuff
Hi all, I want to thank Bob Evans, Darren Garrison, and Peter Shugar for their advice and the information they sent on teaching school kids about Meteorites. Peter, thank you again for the teaching primer. Wishing everyone a SAFE and HAPPY NEW YEAR. Meteoritically Yours, Ron I'm curious, a friend and I, both of us belonging to a mineral club, go to area schools, mostly 6th and 7th grades and teach them about minerals and some easy fossils. If I wanted to expand this to include meteorites, what would I show, include or teach so that the 6th and 7th graders would understand meteorites? Thanks. Ron I do not want to sound as if I am a know-it-all because I am not. I want to learn, so when I bring my meteorite collection to school, I can make a presentation that will both instruct and inspire the kids to want to learn more. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ARCTIC IRONS - the hunt is on
Hi Sterling, all - Hopefully now that Jason and Darryl have stopped their harassment, we can begin to define the problem space for the arctic iron hunt. I don't intend to let either of them waste another minute of my time, and would recommend to others here that they follow a similar course. Going back to Firestone's piece in the Mammoth Trumpet in March, 2001, which Sterling provided us the link to (Sterling, would you please do so again), we see spikes in Carbon 14 production in the accepted radio calibration curve INTCAL98. Running through time, the first of these spikes at (by eyeball) 46,000 BCE may be associated with the Barringer Crater Impact. The next spike at 40,000 BCE is unassociated with any impact crater that I know of. There may be one, it's simply that I don't know it or can't recall it; if anyone knows of a candidate impact do tell. I seem to vaguely remember that there were South American impactites found at Rio Cuarto which did not come from the 2,360 BCE event, but came from a much earlier one. Does anyone here know of any impact or impactite which might match? The next spike at 31,000 BCE appears to be from the Mammoth Pepperer Impact. Judging from the calibration chart, this crater should have been just a tad bigger than Barringer Crater, if the iron hit land. Of course, that land is tundra, so the crater edges most likely will not remain sharp today. From the BBC report, we see that the most intense peppering occurred in Alaska, where the mammoth tusks were found (no longer a Calgary shop, as per earlier reports). There was some doubt among Firestone's team as to whether the mammoths died at the time of impact, and some of them were clearly hoping the tusks were peppered later at 10,900 BCE. Remarkably, they did not seem to understand the difference in impactites coming from an iron impact and a comet impact. A healed ox skull from Siberia shows that the iron peppering was less intense there - the ox survived. Looking at the ice sheet maps from 31,000 BCE, while this was the Laurentide ice maximum, strangely enough Alaska was ice free in its north - they know this from pollen samples. The mammoth were eating something to live, after all. This was what was left of an earlier ice free corridor, which would reopen again later. Thus the possibility of a large undiscovered crater somewhere in that ice free area of Alaska remains, no matter what kinds of tantrums some people throw. The tusks show jagged unhealed edges - which is to say immediate death. A problem here is that ballistic re-entry means condensed spherules will arrive back to Earth with the same force with which the iron plasma left, so an ice impact still can not be ruled out. We have the spherule distribution from the Barringer Impact to go on for comparison. Can someone here provide the information which Nininger gathered? That distribution could be compared with the peppering density preserved in the tusks, which might give some kind of range. If we knew exactly where the tusks and the ox skull were found it would help. Alaska and Siberia are big places. The next C14 spike ca. 13,000 BCE is probably related to the following one at 10,900 BCE, the cometary impact now proved by Kenneth's team's recovery of the North American impactite layer at that date, some of the peoples' memories of which I have repeated here from my book. good hunting, and Merry Christmas, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Have another piece of pie
Hi Sterling - It goes like this: ...comet impact which killed about 90% of the people living in North America at the time. Most died due to hunger. But then,there's not likely to be any strewn field from that... He just bounced through (in three sentences) the events I have spent(way too) many paragraphs connecting. Yes, it's an hypothesis, not a fact. Its now a fact, not a hypothesis, despite the disabilities of some people to accept the data. Thanks for your intentions in spending your time trying to educate Jason, but as I have not seen any effect from your earlier efforts... The impactite layer at 10,900 BCE has been demonstrated by Kenneth's team. The climatic consequences from that type of dust loading are well estimated from the climatic effects of smaller dust loadings from relatively recent historical volcanic eruptions. We also have information on the climate effects of other cometary dust veils to work from, for which see the Cambridge Conference archives for the period preceding 2004. The 10,900 BCE climate estimate is confirmed by mega-fauna die off and observed quarry utilization, and once again, that is hard data. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Carrying coals to Newcastle
Hi all - For those trying to work out the pathology of Jason's mental defect, consider his claim here: And you call me biasedmaybe to the 'theory' that KE = 1/2mv^2, I suppose. I've only been arguing based on impact dynamics and known facts. You know and I know and (nearly) everyone else here knows that Jason's understanding of impact dynamics is nil, zero, zip, nada. Sterling has been through them with him again and again and again and again and again, and they still don't sink in - as for some strange reason Jason thinks that he already knows them. As Jason's obliviousness extends to the hard data, I give up. Not another minute of my time. As Jason's ravings are not only interfering with the Arctic Iron search, but have also taken away important space for commercial notices, my apologies not only to the hunters but to the dealers here as well. good hunting, and a prosperous new year to all, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ARCTIC IRONS
Hi all - The incidence of 10Be is taken by some to be a sign of extra-solar system activity, but my working hypothesis is that it may also appear as a product of hyper-velocity impact, as does C14: When protons caught this way (high energy/velocity state) in the sun's atmosphere collide with the nuclei of carbon, nitrogen and oxygen, they can form a nucleus with four protons and six neutrons - one neutron more than the stable form of beryllium - for a total of 10 nuclear particles, giving beryllium-10 its name. In my old school way of thinking, the protons for the 10BE production are released at the same time as the neutrons for the C14 production, by the impacts, but then they probably have newer terms for all of this nowadays. Bottom Line: iron impactor, roughly a little larger than the one that hit at Barringer. good hunting all, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
