[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 14, 2008
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_14_2008.html **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp0030002850) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
Anne All, It's great you have gone through the trouble and taken the risk to do this, Anne! There are various degrees to which this can be accomplished (available upon request, automatically included with every purchase, etc), and it will be interesting to see what this transparent approach to the market does for you. As you and I discussed, I was contemplating pushing this information out on my posting site as well and will probably go ahead and do that in the majority of cases when I can get to it. I have several collection pieces which have been acquired from sources that would prefer a little dust be given time to settle before their anonymity is exposed, but this is obviously acceptable so long as proper records are maintained along the way. As a collector -- not a dealer -- it is only incumbent to provide this information in all cases where specimens are listed as available for trade. Best, Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:31 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand Hello List-Members, After reading all the emails yesterday, I decided there was only one thing I could do: publish my sources. So I added a column to the Catalog page and keyed in the provenance of each and every piece on that list. Well, not quite every piece, but about 90%, it will be a work in progress for a bit longer. Also, I very often have more information that I had room to squeeze in on that page. So, if you are interested, just ask. And take a look:_http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm_ (http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm) Now lets see which one of my Colleagues will follow suit and publish his sources too. And while I was at it, I also added some 20 new pieces to the Catalog. Those were easy, no research needed, they are all from the Monnig Collection. But no pictures yet for those. Sorry. The pictures will get done in the next few days. I had a busy weekend! As usual, any questions, just ask. Thank you. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vice-President of IMCA www.IMCA.cc **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp0030002850) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
Well, but how should I behave, when now the sharks are coming to me, and they will come, asking e.g. for Boguslavka or Drake Creek, because they can read it as provenance on Anne's page? To sell them then some would be disingenuous towards Anne. See, it is somewhat problematical. Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Dave Gheesling Gesendet: Montag, 14. April 2008 14:54 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand Anne All, It's great you have gone through the trouble and taken the risk to do this, Anne! There are various degrees to which this can be accomplished (available upon request, automatically included with every purchase, etc), and it will be interesting to see what this transparent approach to the market does for you. As you and I discussed, I was contemplating pushing this information out on my posting site as well and will probably go ahead and do that in the majority of cases when I can get to it. I have several collection pieces which have been acquired from sources that would prefer a little dust be given time to settle before their anonymity is exposed, but this is obviously acceptable so long as proper records are maintained along the way. As a collector -- not a dealer -- it is only incumbent to provide this information in all cases where specimens are listed as available for trade. Best, Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:31 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand Hello List-Members, After reading all the emails yesterday, I decided there was only one thing I could do: publish my sources. So I added a column to the Catalog page and keyed in the provenance of each and every piece on that list. Well, not quite every piece, but about 90%, it will be a work in progress for a bit longer. Also, I very often have more information that I had room to squeeze in on that page. So, if you are interested, just ask. And take a look:_http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm_ (http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm) Now lets see which one of my Colleagues will follow suit and publish his sources too. And while I was at it, I also added some 20 new pieces to the Catalog. Those were easy, no research needed, they are all from the Monnig Collection. But no pictures yet for those. Sorry. The pictures will get done in the next few days. I had a busy weekend! As usual, any questions, just ask. Thank you. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vice-President of IMCA www.IMCA.cc **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp0030002850) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Posting sources
Why not just ask the dealer where the material came from? This has worked for over a decade for my business. Personally, I always will tell a customer if the ask, but only if that source wants the information given. Posting the info for all to see, poses a problem for the privacy of that source and yes, I do not want others finding that source. Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites -- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Request: Review of the book - Tektites in the Geological Record
Hi Pat List Maybe I better raise my price; http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektites-in-the-Geological-Record-by-G-J-H-McCall_W0QQitemZ190193966357 -- Mike -- Mike Jensen Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 303-337-4361 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Pat Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Fellow Listoids, Do any of you own _Tektites in the Geological Record:Showers of Glass from the Sky_ ? There are very few of the tektite books that are not already in my bookshelf and this is one of them. Before I drop $130.00 on a paperback book, can any of you review this book? Thank you and Best Regards, Pat Brown Scientific Lifestyle Meteorites Engineer by vocation, meteorite hunter when on vacation ISBN 978-1862390850 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
Now lets see which one of my Colleagues will follow suit and publish his sources too. Probably not many will do, as long as they are more or less at the dealer´s end of the line. It is all a matter of perspective. While I personally think this is a very good idea, and would encourage you to continue this way, I am looking at it from the viewpoint of a private collector (!) only, and not from the viewpoint of a dealer or part-time-dealer. There is no disadvantage for a collector to know about the provenance of a specimen - just the opposite is true. Then again it may be a bit more complicated from a dealer´s perspective, as Martin and Matt have already pointed out with their arguments. Time will tell... [P.S.: will you publish sources for your thin section list, too, Anne?] Best regards, Alex Berlin/Germany __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Posting sources
Matt List, This is the opinion of only one collector, but your suggestion is something that would work (and has worked) perfectly fine for me. Martin's dilemma is a good point, however, and it may be mitigated but not completely disappear under your format. Most sophisticated industries -- which this one is not yet -- operate under wholesale and retail pricing strategies, but the high level of dealer-to-dealer trading in this business as it exists today may present some initial challenges. A good bit of trading takes place in the world of meteorites whereby a dealer's reputation stands as evidence enough to back up a purchase decision, and with the benefit of hindsight I've acquired pieces with only this information in some cases. Nothing of significance, however, and that will continue to be the case going forward. This should produce an interesting thread as well... Best, Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:24 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Posting sources Why not just ask the dealer where the material came from? This has worked for over a decade for my business. Personally, I always will tell a customer if the ask, but only if that source wants the information given. Posting the info for all to see, poses a problem for the privacy of that source and yes, I do not want others finding that source. Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites -- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Posting sources
Sounds like a good solution Matt. I would not want my name published on a website that I provide consignments if I did that sort of thing. If I was a buyer and saw that dealer A had a specimen acquired from dealer B, I would just contact dealer B and see if they had any more and eliminate dealer A's mark up. Would anyone expect Marting to reveal his source for his new Martian Meteorite? Or Adam for NWA 5000? I would bet that they will not reveal their planetary sources any quicker than I will. Provenance, in my opinion, exists where old labels accompany the specimen, or it came from a museum or famous old collector of yesteryear. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Posting sources Why not just ask the dealer where the material came from? This has worked for over a decade for my business. Personally, I always will tell a customer if the ask, but only if that source wants the information given. Posting the info for all to see, poses a problem for the privacy of that source and yes, I do not want others finding that source. Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites -- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
I bet not. --- Alexander Seidel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [P.S.: will you publish sources for your thin section list, too, Anne?] http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Don Rawlings Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD Allende Slice
Greetings, Anyone interested in a larger slice of Allende that measures 3 5/8 X 2 1/2 X 3/16 thick or 93 mm X 64 mm X 4.7 mm thick can check out my auction. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=330228158830 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=330228158830 Best! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WG: meteorites not being able to
We need only look to Peru to understand the expertise and efficiency that governments can bring to bear in order to secure critical scientific data. The carpetbaggers that plundered the site of the recent fall merely recorded locations, masses, eyewitness accounts, and such like. They did absolutely nothing to secure the all-important mud hole! Maybe they are not all bad, though. They did donate specimens to scientists that had real microscopes and ion probes and what not. Concerning the unknown they are losing, is that the known-unknown or the unknown-unknown? Paul Swartz Any scientific data that is lost to the country. Right now it might seem trivial, but just like antiquities, they are a non-renewable resource. That meteorite will never fall again. And in the future, knowing where strewnfields are, how they oriented, what class and quantity, could have some significant meaning. It's the unknown they are loosing. Mark Ferguson __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Posting sources
I agree with Jim and would like to add an observation. People buying meteorites fall into three categories. 1.Buying from a dealer who is trusted to know what he is doing and has a track record of happy customers. 2.Knowing the material (and who is selling what) well enough to buy with confidence based on the buyer's expertise. I watched Martin Horejsi buy some expensive historical meteorites and he just knew the material so well. 3.Bargain shopping. Taking a gamble. Many buyers are happy with this and I would agree it is not right for every one. Most of us have been in all three situations. I don't want to start a name dropping contest but Jim made the comment. As a buyer, simply the fact that it came from Jim Strope is good enough for me and I would be confident that fact would be good enough for other buyers should I decide to resell the item. Jim would not need to tell me where he got it to win me over! Tom Phillips In a message dated 4/14/2008 10:23:11 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sounds like a good solution Matt. I would not want my name published on a website that I provide consignments if I did that sort of thing. If I was a buyer and saw that dealer A had a specimen acquired from dealer B, I would just contact dealer B and see if they had any more and eliminate dealer A's mark up. Would anyone expect Marting to reveal his source for his new Martian Meteorite? Or Adam for NWA 5000? I would bet that they will not reveal their planetary sources any quicker than I will. Provenance, in my opinion, exists where old labels accompany the specimen, or it came from a museum or famous old collector of yesteryear. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Posting sources Why not just ask the dealer where the material came from? This has worked for over a decade for my business. Personally, I always will tell a customer if the ask, but only if that source wants the information given. Posting the info for all to see, poses a problem for the privacy of that source and yes, I do not want others finding that source. Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites -- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp0030002850) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
Dear me! Alex! What else could we burden to the dealers? Uncle, isn't it enough that the hunters and dealers are working each for three men, are risking their money, their health and their time, to organize the rarest matter on Earth for the collectors in a volume and variety like never before in history, and at since 8 years calamitous retail prices? That they trade out from museums and collections the most desirable historics for you? That their goods already underlie the strictest controls of all collectibles in existence? That they stuff the labs with the most exciting rocks of the solar systems for free, that they wait patiently until each rock is examined and classified, that they spend those weeks where they are at home, in endless cutting and preparing sessions, that they make the marketing, bookkeeping, the maintenance of the hobby in growing new collectors, in popularizing meteorite in the media, in swallowing permanently to be called looters, poachers ect, by some, who find no other way to gain profile, but on the other are profiting from that work like no others, and that they are regarded in view of that enormous work by all dealers in similar branches as absolute fools? Now they should even disclose their sources, for some of the collectors buying there - thats simply too much. Haven't you bought recently a pair of shoes? Did you ask the shop manager to come and to tell you, where he had purchased the shoes and at which price? Why would that an absurd thought? Uncle, if for a collector a dealer hasn't the authority, the reliability and not the respect, that he can trust him, that the offered meteorite is exactly that, what the dealer is stating, then he simply shouldn't buy that piece! In a few years, the labels of those, which now should be forced to publish all their sources, will be regarded as proof of authenticity like the labels of your David New. A dealer always will publish the label, if it's from a prominent collection, because it adds value, and he will tell to his friends - that sand box is indeed so small that sellers and buyers, both collectors btw., often have a friendly relationship - also the more sensible information about the provenance, as well as to his customers in whose he trusts. But that has to be left solely to the seller! Now to build up a pressure, that everyone has kindly to publish his sources, is wrong. Hi Greg, where do you have your NWA 5000 from? Mike, I can't find, on your hp, the source of your Martians... Uncle, fool is a hard word, enthusiast sounds more proper. Those who are dealing meteorites are driven by their enthusiasms, there exist a thousand easier ways to earn one's bread and butter. And I really can't understand, where suddenly all those suspicions are coming from, the fears to be burnt, and the imagination it would be normal, that sellers wouldn't have nothing else in mind, than to exploit and to cheat their collectors. Hey folks, we are meteorite collectors and not on a cattle-market in Tirana!!! It never was like this, the meteorite-scene was always based on a respectful and friendly acquaintance in a trust- and respectful atmosphere. Last but not least because it was and it is so small, handy and straightforward. Shall one or two single shady amateurs like an Evans now be enough, to cast doubts on all that? Honestly, that isn't my perception of meteorite collecting trading, what for an image seems to be drawn here. (And almost I wrote, that these, who think, that collecting meteorites would be so dangerous and that the scene would be so full of dishonest people, that they are simply in the - for them - wrong field of collecting). I think a campaign is necessary, before some sellers decide to leave: Love your sellers! We need buttons, caps, coffee mugs - who will bake a cake? Sometimes I ask myself...is it only me...?? Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Alexander Seidel Gesendet: Montag, 14. April 2008 15:46 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand Now lets see which one of my Colleagues will follow suit and publish his sources too. Probably not many will do, as long as they are more or less at the dealer´s end of the line. It is all a matter of perspective. While I personally think this is a very good idea, and would encourage you to continue this way, I am looking at it from the viewpoint of a private collector (!) only, and not from the viewpoint of a dealer or part-time-dealer. There is no disadvantage for a collector to know about the provenance of a specimen - just the opposite is true. Then again it may be a bit more complicated from a dealer´s perspective, as Martin and Matt have already pointed out with their arguments. Time will tell... [P.S.: will you publish sources for your thin section list, too, Anne?] Best regards, Alex Berlin/Germany
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certain countries
Utter rot. Why should meteorites be different from any other cultural or scientific heritage? Viewed from a slightly broader view than we sometimes do on this list, meteorites are items of both financial and scientific value. None of us have any god-given right to own them, whether they come from Canada, Argentina, or (for that matter) the US. In the absence of international treaty (such as with Antarctica), every state has to make its own mind up how to handle these matters. Some may choose to be laissez-faire; some may blanket ban export; some will strike a reasonable middle path, and, say, permit export of material once their own scientific establishments have had a chance to examine and take samples. If anything, we should perhaps be arguing for a /more/ uniform approach to be taken, and that uniform approach to me wouldn't be a free-for-all. Mark Michael Murray wrote: The reasoning? That's easy Steve, pick one: - exercising absolute state authority, - exercising autocratic authority - exercising complete regulation by the state - exercising a monopoly BTW, in response to someone's statement about artifacts, I fail to find meteorite crouched anywhere in the meaning of the word artifact. That is an often used strategy though. -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] off-topic news from Oro Valley AZ
I think the cake would be in my department! Also, for those who would be interested in Jim Kreigh's house where many of us attended the interesting parties in the past: It has been sold and the new owners seem to be working hard on desert tree trimming and updating. Jim would be glad to know a new family will be there to care for the house he lived in since it was new. The vacant lot next door has also been sold and we hear that a house will be built on it. Twink Monrad __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad - eBay auctions closing shortly
Greetings all I have a few auctions closing shortly including a nicely crusted martian individual currently about $100/gm, a beautiful imilac slice at about 1/2 retail, a fresh rich black crusted bassikounou, very fresh jauncheng, 227 gram muonionalusta, a sikhote-alin shrapnel oriented by its impact witht he ground, polymict diogenite and a host of others. See them all at http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=katy2kary -- Eric Olson 7682 Firethorn Dr Fayetteville, NC 28311 http://www.star-bits.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
I don't know, I haven't found my calmative pills yet... For me it's like stepping in a parallel hypothetical universe. Could we please to try to quantify, how often that happened, that someone was burnt, in buying a meteorite, which was declared to be a different more historic locales? Then we would see more clearly, if there does exist that problem at all, or whether it is of speculative character only. Please no names, nobody want to see endless flame wars here. Would be sufficient, to raise the finger, to write me! And the number of cases. (although it would be interesting, to know the name of the meteorite too, for not having dozens of Baygorria-cases her. And whether it was on ebay..). Thanks! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Mark Crawford Gesendet: Montag, 14. April 2008 18:57 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand I guess the question here is, do sellers have a right to anonymity, and if so, when does it outweigh the buyer's right to provenance? As a collector I'm delighted to have more provenance, because it add to the interest of the piece, the future value, and gives me even more confidence that it's genuine. As far as authenticity goes, however, in the case of people like Anne, I've already accepted the material is genuine because of the person doing the selling. In terms of setting a model of behavious, I think as a general rule you would find that more trustworthy sellers would be more likely to provide sources, whereas less trustworthy ones wouldn't (or would plain lie!). (This is NOT a suggestion that only shady characters wouldn't want to list their sources...) But from a purely commercial point of view, I can't see how this could work. If dealer A is selling material for $50/g, and his source (B) is selling for $25/g, am I really going to approach A? I'm going to be beating a path to B, as Martin points out, and demanding a better deal - and I'm going to put A in the 'taking the mickey' pile. Not good for either A or B. Or, if I happen to know that A is buying from C, and that C has a contact in NWA, I may try to cut out the middle man and go straight to the source. Not good for anyone. I think the whole idea puts an artificial spin to the market, and as long as you accept the reality that it /is/ a market, I don't think it's a workable option. The exception I would argue for is historics - there is often so little material that I think it's fair and reasonable to expect a higher degree of proof. But even then, for me the onus is on the buyer to request the information, rather than the seller to offer it up front. Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List-Members, After reading all the emails yesterday, I decided there was only one thing I could do: publish my sources. -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Posting sources
I agree. There were a few times several years ago when someone demanded provenance on items I was selling only to have them contact my source directly and attempt to take me out of the middle of the deal. If buyers aren't sure that they can trust a dealer to sell them exactly what is claimed, they should probably take there business elsewhere. I was on the other side of this situation years ago. Several years ago, a well known dealer called me on the phone and said he had a fantastic deal for me - 0.10 grams of Governador Valadares for $1,000. I said I wasn't interested but he pressed me. When I asked about provenance, he balked but said that I could always send it to a lab and have it tested. H, destroy the specimen to prove whether or not it is the Real McCoy. Kind of like dunking women in 17th century New England - if they floated they were witches, if they sank (and drowned) they were innocent. The dealer is still making a full court press telling me how fantastic ( he always described his specimens in the superlative form) this piece was. But, as we talked, a few more tidbits came to the surface. In fact, there were several conditions that came with the purchase of the specimen. One - I couldn't tell anyone where I got it from. In fact, it was best if I didn't tell anyone that I even had it. Two - I couldn't ask for provenance, the source wanted to remain incognito. Three - I had to buy it right now or the deal was off. I saw red flags waving at me and I still held my ground about not wanting the specimen. You must be crazy, says the well known dealer, You could turn around and sell it for three grand easily. Some of you, I'm sure, know what my next question to Mr. Pushy was. When I asked him why HE didn't sell it for three grand there was a very pregnant pause. Finally, his reply was the often used tactics of those whose business practices aren't always on the up-and-up. It's starting to sound like you don't trust me, he stammered. Well, to make a long story short, I hung up the phone and added the dealer to my black list. Be careful about who you do business with. Don't let your emotions overrule common sense. Best, John Gwilliam At 08:22 AM 4/14/2008, Jim Strope wrote: Sounds like a good solution Matt. I would not want my name published on a website that I provide consignments if I did that sort of thing. If I was a buyer and saw that dealer A had a specimen acquired from dealer B, I would just contact dealer B and see if they had any more and eliminate dealer A's mark up. Would anyone expect Marting to reveal his source for his new Martian Meteorite? Or Adam for NWA 5000? I would bet that they will not reveal their planetary sources any quicker than I will. Provenance, in my opinion, exists where old labels accompany the specimen, or it came from a museum or famous old collector of yesteryear. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Posting sources Why not just ask the dealer where the material came from? This has worked for over a decade for my business. Personally, I always will tell a customer if the ask, but only if that source wants the information given. Posting the info for all to see, poses a problem for the privacy of that source and yes, I do not want others finding that source. Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites -- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
I guess the question here is, do sellers have a right to anonymity, and if so, when does it outweigh the buyer's right to provenance? As a collector I'm delighted to have more provenance, because it add to the interest of the piece, the future value, and gives me even more confidence that it's genuine. As far as authenticity goes, however, in the case of people like Anne, I've already accepted the material is genuine because of the person doing the selling. In terms of setting a model of behavious, I think as a general rule you would find that more trustworthy sellers would be more likely to provide sources, whereas less trustworthy ones wouldn't (or would plain lie!). (This is NOT a suggestion that only shady characters wouldn't want to list their sources...) But from a purely commercial point of view, I can't see how this could work. If dealer A is selling material for $50/g, and his source (B) is selling for $25/g, am I really going to approach A? I'm going to be beating a path to B, as Martin points out, and demanding a better deal - and I'm going to put A in the 'taking the mickey' pile. Not good for either A or B. Or, if I happen to know that A is buying from C, and that C has a contact in NWA, I may try to cut out the middle man and go straight to the source. Not good for anyone. I think the whole idea puts an artificial spin to the market, and as long as you accept the reality that it /is/ a market, I don't think it's a workable option. The exception I would argue for is historics - there is often so little material that I think it's fair and reasonable to expect a higher degree of proof. But even then, for me the onus is on the buyer to request the information, rather than the seller to offer it up front. Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List-Members, After reading all the emails yesterday, I decided there was only one thing I could do: publish my sources. -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Cuesta del Burrio?
Has anyone heard of this meteorite from Chile? I saw it at an antique show in Atlanta over the weekend. It felt way too light to be an iron, and a magnet was only slightly attracted to it, but it didn't look anything like a stony either. It's metallic color was all wrong: kind of a shiny titanium look to it. Needless to say I didn't buy any of it, nor even inquire how much per gram. Anita D. Westlake __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Not Wanting to Give Up Your Source
It's not just about meteorites folks. Try asking you great aunt, your mom or grandma for the recipe to her secret Peach Pie or Caramel Fudge Cake and see what the answer is. Best, John __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
It doesn't happen often, but it does. When KemKem (remember the thread about 2 months ago?) first became available, buyers were assured it was going to be catalogued 'real soon'. Then it came out that what was being sold as KemKem was a jumble of several finds mixed together, and that most likely the original dealers who made the trip to Morocco had been sold a bill of goods. KemKem is now mainly a meteoric curiosity, and not worth as much as it might have been if it were a single new documented find. I know I have bought one purported Canadian meteorite that, when it arrived, turned out to be a piece of slag; I kept it as a cautionary reminder. I probably have a couple other meteorites that aren't all they are cracked up to be, but since I mainly collect micros, determining that definitively is nearly impossible. After seeing how difficult provenance can be to confirm, I keep as much of my documentation as possible; if I don't have a specimen card or bill of sale from the seller, I print out the auction or page offering. As a collector, your main defenses are 'know your dealer', and 'document, document, document!' Tracy Latimer From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:13:30 +0200 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand I don't know, I haven't found my calmative pills yet... For me it's like stepping in a parallel hypothetical universe. Could we please to try to quantify, how often that happened, that someone was burnt, in buying a meteorite, which was declared to be a different more historic locales? Then we would see more clearly, if there does exist that problem at all, or whether it is of speculative character only. _ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_getintouch_042008 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
Hi Martin and List, First of all, my brother, Greg had nothing to do with the acquisition on Northwest Africa 5000. Second, I reported how it was brought into possession in way of the entry in the Meteoritical Bulletin and my announcement. These days, I think proving laboratory provenance is far more important when dealing with meteorites from Northwest Africa than the original sources they came from. After all, this the reason behind the NWA moniker. If a dealer cannot prove he had his material tested in a Nom Com approved facility and is too lazy to get his own NWA nomenclature, it is time to walk away because you do not know what you are getting no matter how convincing the material may look. I cannot count how many times I have been fooled on appearance alone in the field when purchasing decisions are made without the aid of a laboratory. This is part of the risk that has to be taken in order not to miss out on some fantastic stones. Collectors never see this part of the action because wrongly identified material never makes it market when professionals are involved. In my opinion, provenance with material from Northwest Africa starts with the party who initially had it characterized in a laboratory and made it official. Best Regards, Adam that --- Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear me! Alex! What else could we burden to the dealers? Uncle, isn't it enough that the hunters and dealers are working each for three men, are risking their money, their health and their time, to organize the rarest matter on Earth for the collectors in a volume and variety like never before in history, and at since 8 years calamitous retail prices? That they trade out from museums and collections the most desirable historics for you? That their goods already underlie the strictest controls of all collectibles in existence? That they stuff the labs with the most exciting rocks of the solar systems for free, that they wait patiently until each rock is examined and classified, that they spend those weeks where they are at home, in endless cutting and preparing sessions, that they make the marketing, bookkeeping, the maintenance of the hobby in growing new collectors, in popularizing meteorite in the media, in swallowing permanently to be called looters, poachers ect, by some, who find no other way to gain profile, but on the other are profiting from that work like no others, and that they are regarded in view of that enormous work by all dealers in similar branches as absolute fools? Now they should even disclose their sources, for some of the collectors buying there - thats simply too much. Haven't you bought recently a pair of shoes? Did you ask the shop manager to come and to tell you, where he had purchased the shoes and at which price? Why would that an absurd thought? Uncle, if for a collector a dealer hasn't the authority, the reliability and not the respect, that he can trust him, that the offered meteorite is exactly that, what the dealer is stating, then he simply shouldn't buy that piece! In a few years, the labels of those, which now should be forced to publish all their sources, will be regarded as proof of authenticity like the labels of your David New. A dealer always will publish the label, if it's from a prominent collection, because it adds value, and he will tell to his friends - that sand box is indeed so small that sellers and buyers, both collectors btw., often have a friendly relationship - also the more sensible information about the provenance, as well as to his customers in whose he trusts. But that has to be left solely to the seller! Now to build up a pressure, that everyone has kindly to publish his sources, is wrong. Hi Greg, where do you have your NWA 5000 from? Mike, I can't find, on your hp, the source of your Martians... Uncle, fool is a hard word, enthusiast sounds more proper. Those who are dealing meteorites are driven by their enthusiasms, there exist a thousand easier ways to earn one's bread and butter. And I really can't understand, where suddenly all those suspicions are coming from, the fears to be burnt, and the imagination it would be normal, that sellers wouldn't have nothing else in mind, than to exploit and to cheat their collectors. Hey folks, we are meteorite collectors and not on a cattle-market in Tirana!!! It never was like this, the meteorite-scene was always based on a respectful and friendly acquaintance in a trust- and respectful atmosphere. Last but not least because it was and it is so small, handy and straightforward. Shall one or two single shady amateurs like an Evans now be enough, to cast doubts on all that? Honestly, that isn't my perception of meteorite collecting trading, what for an image seems to be drawn here. (And almost I wrote, that these, who think, that collecting meteorites would be so dangerous and that
[meteorite-list] The Mustery of the Tunguska Fireball by Surendra Verma
Hello Everyone, Has anyone read the above referenced book? If so, what did you think. I am considering addiing it to my reading list. Thanks. -Walter Branch __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Mustery of the Tunguska Fireball by Surendra Verma
Walter: I read it. If I remember correctly, it was a good read. The author's opinions were held at bay until the end. He supplied lots of information on the various theories, and after reading each one, I was convinced THAT was the single-most believable theory. (Until he described the next one.) I really wanted an answer to the puzzle, but only got more questions. It was still fun to read and wonder about. Anita -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Walter Branch Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:53 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] The Mustery of the Tunguska Fireball by Surendra Verma Hello Everyone, Has anyone read the above referenced book? If so, what did you think. I am considering addiing it to my reading list. Thanks. -Walter Branch __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
Fully agree, with NWA-material, the initial point for a collector is the entry in the Bulletin - and easy traceable it is for him, as the main mass holder is given there. Best! martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Adam Hupe Gesendet: Montag, 14. April 2008 20:44 An: Adam Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand Hi Martin and List, First of all, my brother, Greg had nothing to do with the acquisition on Northwest Africa 5000. Second, I reported how it was brought into possession in way of the entry in the Meteoritical Bulletin and my announcement. These days, I think proving laboratory provenance is far more important when dealing with meteorites from Northwest Africa than the original sources they came from. After all, this the reason behind the NWA moniker. If a dealer cannot prove he had his material tested in a Nom Com approved facility and is too lazy to get his own NWA nomenclature, it is time to walk away because you do not know what you are getting no matter how convincing the material may look. I cannot count how many times I have been fooled on appearance alone in the field when purchasing decisions are made without the aid of a laboratory. This is part of the risk that has to be taken in order not to miss out on some fantastic stones. Collectors never see this part of the action because wrongly identified material never makes it market when professionals are involved. In my opinion, provenance with material from Northwest Africa starts with the party who initially had it characterized in a laboratory and made it official. Best Regards, Adam that --- Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear me! Alex! What else could we burden to the dealers? Uncle, isn't it enough that the hunters and dealers are working each for three men, are risking their money, their health and their time, to organize the rarest matter on Earth for the collectors in a volume and variety like never before in history, and at since 8 years calamitous retail prices? That they trade out from museums and collections the most desirable historics for you? That their goods already underlie the strictest controls of all collectibles in existence? That they stuff the labs with the most exciting rocks of the solar systems for free, that they wait patiently until each rock is examined and classified, that they spend those weeks where they are at home, in endless cutting and preparing sessions, that they make the marketing, bookkeeping, the maintenance of the hobby in growing new collectors, in popularizing meteorite in the media, in swallowing permanently to be called looters, poachers ect, by some, who find no other way to gain profile, but on the other are profiting from that work like no others, and that they are regarded in view of that enormous work by all dealers in similar branches as absolute fools? Now they should even disclose their sources, for some of the collectors buying there - thats simply too much. Haven't you bought recently a pair of shoes? Did you ask the shop manager to come and to tell you, where he had purchased the shoes and at which price? Why would that an absurd thought? Uncle, if for a collector a dealer hasn't the authority, the reliability and not the respect, that he can trust him, that the offered meteorite is exactly that, what the dealer is stating, then he simply shouldn't buy that piece! In a few years, the labels of those, which now should be forced to publish all their sources, will be regarded as proof of authenticity like the labels of your David New. A dealer always will publish the label, if it's from a prominent collection, because it adds value, and he will tell to his friends - that sand box is indeed so small that sellers and buyers, both collectors btw., often have a friendly relationship - also the more sensible information about the provenance, as well as to his customers in whose he trusts. But that has to be left solely to the seller! Now to build up a pressure, that everyone has kindly to publish his sources, is wrong. Hi Greg, where do you have your NWA 5000 from? Mike, I can't find, on your hp, the source of your Martians... Uncle, fool is a hard word, enthusiast sounds more proper. Those who are dealing meteorites are driven by their enthusiasms, there exist a thousand easier ways to earn one's bread and butter. And I really can't understand, where suddenly all those suspicions are coming from, the fears to be burnt, and the imagination it would be normal, that sellers wouldn't have nothing else in mind, than to exploit and to cheat their collectors. Hey folks, we are meteorite collectors and not on a cattle-market in Tirana!!! It never was like this, the meteorite-scene was always based on a respectful and friendly acquaintance in a trust- and respectful
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
Lots of mail in my mail-box today!!! I have read every single email and concluded that the (private) responses were unanimously positive. Thank you to all of you for taking the time to write, I do appreciate. Now let me try to answer some of the concerns voiced on the List. Martin, I hope you have found your tranquilizer pills. Maybe a glass of wine will help, or a good night sleep. Yes, there is the problem (and risk) of competition. But we deal with a very special merchandise, not 2 pieces are exactly alike (not like shoes) maybe you have a slice and I have an end-piece, or maybe your slice has an odd inclusion and mine does not. And we both work with rare historical pieces, there are very few examples of those on the market and the provenance is even more critical. And on this subject, I intent to improve my listing of provenance, by going up further in the chain of ownership, when possible, and when I have the documentation. As we found out Saturday, knowing the last owner(s) of a particular piece is not always sufficient, just take a look at all the names you will find on Bob Evans feedback on Ebay. So I will try to go further. One example: I listed the Moorabie as coming from Robert Haag although I bought it from Jason Philips but it came with Robert's label (Thank you Jason), so I know it originally came from him. Alex, thin-sections is a different problem. Of course I can tell you my sources for the material used to make those thin-sections, but that is not your question, isn't it? I believe most collectors of thin-sections know very well who makes 90% of my thin-sections, he is a long time expert, and he worked for David New until David New retired last November. But, as part of our business deal, he has asked me not to mention his name. He has more work than he cares for and he does not want all of you to beat a path to his door. However, I'll be glad to tell you that Steve Schoner has started making thin-sections too, and being a very careful, meticulous person, he is doing very well. In fact he made all the Ureilite thin-sections on my catalog (reference number begin with SS). Does that help? If you have any other questions, please do ask. Again thank you very much for all the responses. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vice-President of IMCA www.IMCA.cc **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp0030002850) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] 14 kg nwa $1 NR free u.s. shipping
http://cgi5.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll i have found that i prefer smaller, easier to handle specimens. this is a very nice one. direct offers+ trades (nwa eucrite(s) considered. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Mustery of the Tunguska Fireball by Surendra Verma
Thanks Anita. Oops. looks like the spell checker in my brain is not working today. -Walter - - Original Message - From: Anita D. Westlake [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Walter Branch' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 2:00 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] The Mustery of the Tunguska Fireball by Surendra Verma Walter: I read it. If I remember correctly, it was a good read. The author's opinions were held at bay until the end. He supplied lots of information on the various theories, and after reading each one, I was convinced THAT was the single-most believable theory. (Until he described the next one.) I really wanted an answer to the puzzle, but only got more questions. It was still fun to read and wonder about. Anita -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Walter Branch Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:53 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] The Mustery of the Tunguska Fireball by Surendra Verma Hello Everyone, Has anyone read the above referenced book? If so, what did you think. I am considering addiing it to my reading list. Thanks. -Walter Branch __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
Alex, thin-sections is a different problem. Of course I can tell you my sources for the material used to make those thin-sections, but that is not your question, isn't it? Oh sure, Anne, it isn´t! :-) And, as you will know, I am well aware of the reasons, of course. That was more sort of a provocative question in this respect, but in a positive sense. Good luck, and I very much hope to meet you in Ensisheim. Btw, to whom it may concern, and just out of curiosity: who else of you overseas dealers and/or collectors are going to make it to Ensisheim this year? Best, Alex Berlin/Germany __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Posting sources
Hi John, Be careful about who you do business with. Don't let your emotions overrule common sense Sounds like good advice to me! -Walter Branch - - Original Message - From: JKGwilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Posting sources I agree. There were a few times several years ago when someone demanded provenance on items I was selling only to have them contact my source directly and attempt to take me out of the middle of the deal. If buyers aren't sure that they can trust a dealer to sell them exactly what is claimed, they should probably take there business elsewhere. I was on the other side of this situation years ago. Several years ago, a well known dealer called me on the phone and said he had a fantastic deal for me - 0.10 grams of Governador Valadares for $1,000. I said I wasn't interested but he pressed me. When I asked about provenance, he balked but said that I could always send it to a lab and have it tested. H, destroy the specimen to prove whether or not it is the Real McCoy. Kind of like dunking women in 17th century New England - if they floated they were witches, if they sank (and drowned) they were innocent. The dealer is still making a full court press telling me how fantastic ( he always described his specimens in the superlative form) this piece was. But, as we talked, a few more tidbits came to the surface. In fact, there were several conditions that came with the purchase of the specimen. One - I couldn't tell anyone where I got it from. In fact, it was best if I didn't tell anyone that I even had it. Two - I couldn't ask for provenance, the source wanted to remain incognito. Three - I had to buy it right now or the deal was off. I saw red flags waving at me and I still held my ground about not wanting the specimen. You must be crazy, says the well known dealer, You could turn around and sell it for three grand easily. Some of you, I'm sure, know what my next question to Mr. Pushy was. When I asked him why HE didn't sell it for three grand there was a very pregnant pause. Finally, his reply was the often used tactics of those whose business practices aren't always on the up-and-up. It's starting to sound like you don't trust me, he stammered. Well, to make a long story short, I hung up the phone and added the dealer to my black list. Be careful about who you do business with. Don't let your emotions overrule common sense. Best, John Gwilliam At 08:22 AM 4/14/2008, Jim Strope wrote: Sounds like a good solution Matt. I would not want my name published on a website that I provide consignments if I did that sort of thing. If I was a buyer and saw that dealer A had a specimen acquired from dealer B, I would just contact dealer B and see if they had any more and eliminate dealer A's mark up. Would anyone expect Marting to reveal his source for his new Martian Meteorite? Or Adam for NWA 5000? I would bet that they will not reveal their planetary sources any quicker than I will. Provenance, in my opinion, exists where old labels accompany the specimen, or it came from a museum or famous old collector of yesteryear. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Posting sources Why not just ask the dealer where the material came from? This has worked for over a decade for my business. Personally, I always will tell a customer if the ask, but only if that source wants the information given. Posting the info for all to see, poses a problem for the privacy of that source and yes, I do not want others finding that source. Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites -- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites (Pre-Order)
If anyone is interested in pre-ordering Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites (Patrick Moore's Practical Astronomy Series) by Mr. Norton (Paperback) you can order it through Amazon for a shipped total of $25.05. The list price will be $39.95 and release date is scheduled 06/09/08. I ordered mine last week- now I just wait... Mike Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 14 kg nwa $1 NR free u.s. shipping
that was an obvious mistake- it will be relisted. --- mckinney trammell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://cgi5.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll i have found that i prefer smaller, easier to handle specimens. this is a very nice one. direct offers+ trades (nwa eucrite(s) considered. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nininger Photos, Numbers and Artifacts
Greetings, Thank you to all who replied to my request. I'll be giving you an update later about these items. Best! --AL AL Mitterling wrote: Hi Listoids, Anyone who has any Nininger memorabilia, photos, meteorite numbers, or artifacts that would like to share them with me, please email me off the list so we can discuss this. Please don't send me anything until we talk first. I will be using these along with the Nininger Moments. They will appear on a non commercial area to be shared with anyone who has an interest. Best! AL Mitterling __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] 14 kg meteorite + mali erg chech
here is the proper link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=290222789244 BID 'TIL IT HURTS. rock-star snowriding trip has the wallet a little sore, right now. i am also trying to organize my finances to hopefully purchase a very special meteorite (to me, anyway). i also have a dealer lot of slice endcuts of mali that are superfresh. 143g total @ $2.71 /g free ship anywhere, pix on request. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Microscope manual German translation question.
Hi list, I apologize for a way off topic post. This is intended for only those members who are microscope users. I need help in computer file (German to English) language translation. I don't even know if it is possible. I am an aus Jena fan and have several of there microscopes. Some are the hard to find ones like the Amplival Interphako. I have looked for a very long time to find operator manuals and it has not been easy. Recently I obtained a computer disk with many aus Jena models included. Unfortunately, they are PDF files and they are in German. This is way beyond me but I read that PDF files could be translated to word documents with the right software and then perhaps a language translating program could be used. The volume of text would be too overwhelming to attempt a manual translation. If some one could do this and could use the files, I would send a CD out and you could send the translated copy back. It would give you a chance of getting some very hard to find manuals I also have an assortment of Zeiss and Leitz Manuals on disk (in English) I will put them on the disk as well. This set would be MUCH more than what is often offered on eBay and perhaps your only chance to get these. Not first come, first served but any one who wants to give it a go (and thinks they can) email me and I will send a CD. We can each pay shipping one direction. Thanks! And list members, thanks for your indulgence. I use this stuff for meteorite micrographs. Check out my Gallery on Meteorite Times. http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/ Tom Phillips **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp0030002850) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certain countries
Hello Steve #2, The reason laws are passed to keep meteorites in a country can be summed up in one word: Money! As the old saying goes: Follar the Dollar. (Translation: that is Arkansas for: Follow the Dollar.) While it is easy to tag commercial meteorite dealers with being greedy don't let anyone fool you. If a country, such as Canada, can keep a rare meteorite, such as Tagish Lake within it's own boundaries, then ONLY Canadian scientists can get the grant money to study that meteorite. Just ask any Canadian Meteorite Scientist! If a meteorite hunter is allowed to go in and find a new meteorite, or if a local finder exports it and it is taken to another country to get studied, then the other country gets the grant money. I think one Canadian authority is on public record as saying something to the effect that the biggest mistake Mexico ever did was allow ANY Allende to make it out of Mexico. Of course that comment can't be justified in any other context than the Mexican authorities let the millions, if not tens of millions of dollars that have gone into Allende research get away. Never mind that the Science of Meteoritics has gained great knowledge by hundreds of Allende research papers written by hundreds of researchers all over the globe other than by the hundreds of esteemed Mexican Meteorite Scientists. Australia will let meteorites out that are not scientifically important, or ones that they have enough of in local collections (read= no more grant money will get away). And Canada has regulations where their national institutions have a 6 month window to buy them at fair market value. So if something shows up and they don't want to buy it (read= not enough grant money to justify the purchase) then they can choose to let them go. Now, can an argument be made that it is best for Science if the meteorites get spread around to the BEST researchers on the planet, not just the ones inside the respective county? Sure. But will national legislators care what is best for science? Maybe. But probably not. But who is available to step up and offer a countering view point when laws are being drafted in these countries? One or two local experts (who get grant money) will ask that export restrictions be placed using any politically correct reason, and it is a virtual slam dunk. One would think someone, right now, in Peru is trying to get expanded laws passed, so the next time a crater forming fall occurs, only the Peruvian Meteorite Scientists (is that an oxy-moron???) will get the rocks and the grant money. So who is in Peru right now making the argument that there might be better scientists outside of Peru to do the needed research on future falls? I bet Mike Farmer could make that case, but, with all due respect to Mike, unfortunately, I don't think the Peruvian Authorities respect too much what he thinks. And all that pre-supposes that any government cares what is best for science. Most would gladly cooperate if an honest case was made that the local scientists want the grant money! After all, that is less money their governments have to come up with if foreign money is invested instead. I wonder if the Meteoritical Society has ever addressed this issue? Of course virtually ALL the Meteoritical Society members make their living via grant money or are paid by institutions that are strongly supported by grant money. Maybe they would not be the best people to ask to make a stand for what would be best for the science. Then again, maybe some members have already done so? Maybe someone within the Society would like to jump into this thread and state the Official Position? And maybe there is another logical reason why meteorites should not leave the political boundaries from which they landed? I just can't seem to figure out what that might be. Maybe if the Meteoritical Society would come out with an Official Position that it is indeed best that NO national laws be passed by any country restricting the trade of meteorites, so that science can best be served, then that might help prevent other countries from passing new stupid laws. Steve Arnold Arkansas In a message dated 4/13/2008 8:41:31 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Good morning list. I want to start a new thread on something,that to me is a real steamer,that makes me a really upset,as to why certain countries prevent meteorites from being able to leave without proper papers.You have Australia,Canada,Oman,and now Argentina.If there are more I do not of them. I really want to know the reasoning behind such mind sets.We all live on the same planet,why deny everyone a chance to own a piece of the cosmic puzzle that we all love to collect?Any thought??When I read that countries are now going to keep them under lock and key it just does not make any sence. Steve
[meteorite-list] AD: Hundreds of New Specimens Just In
Hello List, I am excited to inform all of you that I just returned from Illinois today where I acquired and brought back ALL of the inventory that Jason Phillips had in his Rocks from Heaven business. Sometime in the near future I will get the list of all this inventory moved onto a website of my own, but in the meantime you can visit: www.rocksfromheaven.com You can see there what is now available through me. Jason has agreed to keep the list up on his site for a short period of time. NOTE: I did NOT acquire specimens from his private collection, only those in the Meteorites For Sale section, along with some specimens that were not listed on his site. Of course you can respond via Jason's site, but he will just forward those inquiries on to me, so it would probably be best (and quicker) to contact me directly. I will be assessing the values of the listed specimens, and there is a chance I will be increasing the price on some specimens, and lowering the prices on some others. So if you like something listed, feel free to ask me about it (them) and I will locate which box it is in, and get back with you on a current asking price. If you are interested in a listing of specimens that I DID acquire, but are NOT listed on Jason's website, please email me directly. Thanks, Steve Arnold Arkansas **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp0030002850) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
