Re: [meteorite-list] color calibration
Hi Ed, Sterling's notes sound right if I was able to following them on this fine Spring evening where we could pipe in a little refreshing Mars' temperatures. Basically, I think what your brain sees is only a dream. The EM spectra of all objects just is, and beauty comes from subjective association. Personally I do associate Mars with Arizona, though more so with Utah. Mars is an alien world and it is a natural to compare it to the closest in our experience. If it ain't AZ or UT, what is that? We can't do much to calibrate our concepts of color (and Sterling skirts this when he calls it an 'interpretation'). When you are in love, Sunset are redder and more brlliant. Skies are more vividly blue and clouds more puffy white. Fusion crust is even blacker. In more concrete terms, this reminds me of the age old Fuji vs. Kodak debate. But Fuji film over saturates colors and hue is skewed. It looks too good. Kodak is more realistic. Ha. I switched to Fuji almost exclusively and found its rendition much more pleasing. Still use Velvia regularly, too. Best wishes, Doug PS try looking at yourself at the first morning rays and then comparing this to mid-day direct illumination. Which is more real or better looking? -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri, 30 May 2008 12:18 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] color calibration Hi, EP, List The quarrel is about whether the released photos do not make Mars look enough like Arizona rather than any accusation that it is made to look too much like Arizona. The cameras on Martian spacecraft are not cameras; they are multi-spectral imaging photometers -- not the same thing. The bandwidth of the filters used is as narrow as is possible, ranging from +/- 2.5% bandwidth down to +/- 0.5%. The human eye has peak response frequencies, too, but the eye's bandwidth is as wide as possible. The eye is essentially an attempt to have a full spectrum imager, exactly the opposite purpose from that behind the design criteria of the spacecraft imagers. Some renderers make their Mars images dim and dark because the sunlight on Mars is less than half the intensity of sunlight on Earth, and Martian soils are dark, but human eyes have auto exposure built in -- things look normal over a vast range of local illumination. Consider the Moon. The Moon reflects 7% of the light that falls on it, more in the bright areas (11-12%), less in the dark mare (5%). The albedo of ground anthracite coal dust is 5%, same as the Moon. When the astronauts jumped out of the lander onto the Moon's surface for the first time, did they scream, OMG! It's black as pitch, black as coal! A black world under a black sky! It's like being locked in a coal cellar at midnight! I can't see a thing!? No. They keyed the mike and said, I'm standing on a light gray powdery surface... Hey! Are you blind? It's as black as COAL! If you think the optical image processor in the spacecraft imagers or in a Nikon is sophisticated, it's nothing compared to the human brain. The astronauts even had to wear gold metallic sunglasses (visors) to be able to see while walking on a coal-black surface! And when we take pictures on the Moon, we don't make them dim and black; we brighten them up to a light gray surface, just like our brain tells us to. We do the same for Mars photography. Notice how dark the Raw images from Phoenix are? They haven't been processed yet. Mars has very dark soils (more of that later). As for Mars' sky colors, they are very slight tints to the brightest portion of the photo in most cases. I ( or anyone) can take the L4-L5-L6 images from the MER imager and produce a series of processed photos with EXACTLY the same color calibration target rendering that have a light pink sky, a light blue sky, a light yellow sky, a light orange sky, a light green sky, or a light cyan sky... at the horizon. It's just too close to call. The sky tint in the pictures is intensified by the fact that, in terms of absolute brightness, the Martian surface is very dark. Not as dark as the Moon of course, but Mars' albedo is only 15%! (The Earth's is 60% to 70% depending on how many clouds there are.) To make that dark surface show up, the images are brightened, which makes the sky too bright (and slightly tinted). Red Mars is really dark brown Mars, about like the good dark dirt in your garden (if you're lucky enough to have good dark dirt in your garden).. If you were there, standing on Mars and staring up at the sky, the most obvious thing about the appearance of the Mars sky would be that the top of the sky is very, very dark -- you are looking straight up through a thin atmosphere, as thin as the Earth's at 90,000 feet altitude -- the top of the sky is essentially black (or dark midnight blue). The color of any sky is the color of its scattered
Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Deflection Research Center Established at Iowa State
Hmmm! This seems like a bad idea. Have they not seen Superman 2? hehe --- On Thu, 5/29/08, Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Deflection Research Center Established at Iowa State To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, May 29, 2008, 10:52 PM http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/seeking-answers-asteroid-deflection-16559.html Seeking answers to asteroid deflection Science Blog May 28, 2008 An Asteroid Deflection Research Center (ADRC) has been established on the Iowa State campus to bring researchers from around the world to develop asteroid deflection technologies. The center was signed into effect in April by the Office of the Executive Vice President and Provost. In the early 1990s, scientists around the world initiated studies to assess and devise methods to prevent near-Earth objects from striking Earth, said Bong Wie, the Vance D. Coffman Chair Professor in Aerospace Engineering and director of the center. However, it is now 2008, and there is no consensus on how to reliably deflect them in a timely manner, he noted. Wie, whose research expertise includes space vehicle dynamics and control, modeling and control of large space structures, and solar sail flight control system development and mission design, joined the Iowa State faculty last August. I am very happy that Professor Bong Wie has joined the faculty at ISU, said Elizabeth Hoffman, executive vice president and provost. His work on asteroid deflection is exciting and of great importance. The ADRC will host an International Symposium on Asteroid Deflection Technology in fall 2008. Scientists and engineers from NASA, the European Space Agency, academia, and the aerospace industry will be invited to the Iowa State campus to formulate a roadmap for developing asteroid deflection technologies. Despite the lack of an immediate threat from an asteroid strike, scientific evidence suggests the importance of researching preventive measures. Sixty-five million years ago, a six-mile-wide asteroid struck near the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico and created the 106-mile-diameter Chicxulub Crater. Most scientists now believe that a global climate change caused by this asteroid impact may have led to the dinosaur extinction. Seventy-four million years ago, a smaller one-mile-wide asteroid struck in central Iowa, creating the Manson Crater. Now covered with soil, it is the largest crater in North America at more than 23 miles across. Just 100 years ago, June 30, 1908, an asteroid or comet estimated at 100-200 feet in diameter exploded in the skies above Tunguska, Siberia. Known as the Tunguska Event, the explosion flattened trees and killed other vegetation over a 500,000-acre area. But if the explosion had occurred four hours later, it would have destroyed St. Petersburg or Moscow with an equivalent energy level of about 500 Hiroshima nuclear bombs. The potential for such devastation has astronomers scanning the skies to find and track asteroids that pose a danger, and it has Wie initiating this concerted research effort now before any asteroids are discovered heading toward Earth. Last November, NASA reported 900 known potentially hazardous objects (PHOs), most of which are asteroids. PHOs are defined as objects larger than 492 feet in diameter whose trajectories bring them to within about 4.6 million miles of the Earth's orbit. NASA scientists estimate the total population of PHOs to be around 20,000. However, Wie said, the asteroid we have to worry about is the asteroid that we don't know. Developing technologies that can be used to prevent or mitigate threats from asteroids while also advancing space exploration is a challenge we accept as we work to assure a high quality of life for future generations, said Mark J. Kushner, dean of Iowa State's College of Engineering. This research center serves as an excellent opportunity to provide leadership on an issue that has worldwide implications. According to Tom Shih, professor and chair of aerospace engineering, the potential for a major catastrophe created by an asteroid impacting Earth is very real. It is a matter of when, and humankind must be prepared for it. Our aerospace engineering department strongly supports Professor Bong Wie's effort in establishing this center to address the engineering and science issues of asteroid deflection. Both high-energy nuclear explosions and low-energy non-nuclear alternatives will be studied as deflection techniques. The nuclear approach, which is often assessed to be 10-100 times more effective than non-nuclear approaches as stated in NASA's 2007 report to Congress, will be researched to verify its effectiveness and determine its practical viability, according to Wie. A 20-meter (66 feet) standoff distance
Re: [meteorite-list] Just Another Question
Alan Rubin and I grappled with this issue in our article in Meteorite! 10 years ago, What is a meteorite? The pursuit of a comprehensive definition. We wanted a definition that would exclude things like tektites from being called meteorites. Our definition then said that, to be called a meteorite, an object had to escape the dominant gravitational influence of its parent body. In this case, we would say that a terrestrial meteorite would be an object ejected from earth by natural causes (i.e., by impact), which entered an orbit around the sun and later was re-accreted by the earth. Nothing like this has ever been found. Its distinguishing properties might be a fusion crust, evidence for cosmic-ray exposure in space, and lithology that is completely exotic for its find location. Without an exposure history (or being an observed fall) it would be a very tough sell... a Wingstar. Jeff At 12:24 AM 5/30/2008, Pete Shugar wrote: Hello list, I've given this more than just a passing thought as I think this is a very intreguing question. If an impactor smacks into the moon with enough energy, objects will be dislodged. If they make it to earth intact, we have a luner meteorite. Same goes for Mars and Astroid 4Vesta. So,.suppose we have a very high speed impactor that hits earth, and dislodges material that is now in orbit. If the material crosses Earth's orbit again, and survives to the surface of earth, would it be modified in it's appearance to the extent that it would be seen as a meteorite and not just another rock? Has anything ever been found that might be in this class of material? Would there be anything that would set it apart as a different rock/meteorite? Pete __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 30, 2008
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_30_2008.html **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch Cooking with Tyler Florence on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?NCID=aolfod000302) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite art presented to Stephen Hawking.
Hi All, As a passionate meteorite collector it is always a pleasure to hear about other collectors experiences and escapades through the list, so I thought I would give a quick account of mine, leading up to a meeting with Professor Stephen Hawking. I have always been fascinated by what we learn about our world/solar system through astronomy and meteoritics ever since my curiosity was sparked when the Barwell meteorite fell nearby the day after my 9th birthday. Although I enjoyed and studied sciences I have always had a creative streak which lead me to work as an Artist and Designer, spending many years as lecturer in Art and Education but always continuing as a practicing artist. I now am privileged to be able to just concentrate totally on creating and exhibiting my own work, much of which is still informed and inspired by astronomy, science and meteoritics in particular. My work is very rarely figurative and explores the complexities of systems and patterns which I observe. So as you see I probably approach the subject of meteoritics from a slightly different perspective to most on the list. I have been working alongside and following several other artists with similar interests. Jem Finer (once in the band called the Pogues many years ago) is one in particular who was recently artist in residence in the department of Astrophysics at Oxford University and wrote a little piece that I thought I would quote to try and show the thinking behind projects I am persuing with three different University Astronomy departments at the moment. While their ultimate aims may differ - science seeking a clear answer, reproducible and verifiable under experimental conditions, art working toward the unexpected - their starting points and working methods have much in common. Both science and art observe, ask questions, form hypotheses, conduct experiments. Serendipity is not the preserve of art. Observational cosmologists build progressively more powerful telescopes, not always to look for something that they theorise exists, but to see what lies out there, on the edges of space and time, unknown and unexpected. Curiosity on a cosmic scale. I'm interested in the questions cosmologists ask, I'm curious to discover how things work. I'm not trying to formulate deep physical laws; I'm taking this comprehension - or lack of it - as a starting point to discover connections, to make tangible ideas contrary to my experience, to experiment and, finally, to make something that communicates the results of this process. Through this work I was recently asked to present a piece of my work to Professor Stephen Hawking to commemorate his visit to Leicester University in the UK. The artwork given to him was actually from a series of simple recordings of meteorite structures I have been doing, observing structures in meteorites using various methods from simply drawing to using Scanning Electron Microscopes (SEM) to image parts of my collection. The chosen piece was however slightly different as it was created by taking a print directly from a meteorite. I have a large slice of Seymchan (about 25cm diameter) which has been etched to show an amazing Widmanstatten structure (or Thompson structure if you wish). The slice is very even and so I was able to use it in just the same way as a traditional etching plate, by inking it up (with a little trepidation I must admit) and wiping the surface to leave ink in the pattern (intaglio printing) and then putting the whole thing through a press to create the image on paper. I then worked on this to bring out more detail through observation. On Wednesday this week I was thrilled to be on the welcoming committee when Professor Hawking toured the University and was able to say a few words and personally present the work to him. A day to remember. I am now awaiting the official photographs of the presentation to be released, so unfortunately nothing to show yet. I'll post a link to them later if anybody wants to see them. So I'll finish with a quote which I like... As Albert Einstein said: The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed. Graham Ensor, UK __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Just Another Question
A related question I pondered a while back: How big does an object need to be to be a 'parent body'? Is the meteorite ever the full remnant of the PB? In other words, can something be big and coherent enough to survive passage through the atmosphere and produce a meteorite, which hasn't previously been part of a much larger body? My (rather ill-educated) guess would be that candidates would be very primitive and undifferentiated, with a very pretty low density. Mark Quoting Jeff Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Alan Rubin and I grappled with this issue in our article in Meteorite! 10 years ago, What is a meteorite? The pursuit of a comprehensive definition. We wanted a definition that would exclude things like tektites from being called meteorites. Our definition then said that, to be called a meteorite, an object had to escape the dominant gravitational influence of its parent body. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Haag article on ABC today!
this is a great article and it demonstrates why it's so important to cultivate relationships with the media: the author recently offered me meteorites which he said bob had given him many years ago. all best / d On May 29, 2008, at 5:14 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Story?id=4949614page=1 Great article about meteorite hunting. Michael Farmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Phoenix Mars Pic...
Whilst playing with some of the latest Mars pics, I noticed what look like strange little holes in the soil... http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn181/lunartick007/marsholes.jpg Original image here: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=878cID=25 Any thoughts on what they might be? Could it be moisture escaping from the soil? Best, Mark Ford CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Mars Pic...
Hi Mark, Could they just be pits left where small stones and gravel were moved by the thrusters on phoenix when it landed?there seem to be several larger pieces that were moved about when it landedyou can see the slide marks in many of the shots. regards Graham Ensor Mark Ford wrote: Whilst playing with some of the latest Mars pics, I noticed what look like strange little holes in the soil... http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn181/lunartick007/marsholes.jpg Original image here: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=878cID=25 Any thoughts on what they might be? Could it be moisture escaping from the soil? Best, Mark Ford CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mars color calibration
Hi Sterling, Doug, all, The human eye wants to see a human landscape, same as the human mind does. Mars does not have one of these. I remember how disappointed I was when the Viking 1 images were returned. I see that my summary of the problem as being one equation with two variables was about right. In my opinion, the effort to use Hubble data to determine the scattered light of Mars' atmosphere failed, as it appears it did not take into account the often present dust in that atmosphere. What I think is going to happen with Phoenix is that we're going to be treated to a torrent of over-generalized statements about how non-existent the back contamination problem is, based on data from one point on the surface of a planet, but we'll see. In my opinion, its going to take multiple long range rovers to determine whether there is or was life on Mars and whether back contamination presents a show stopper to manned exploration or human development there. Given current launch costs and the economy, and the crummy launch vehicles Griffin came up with, both of these are near fantasies now. On the up side, some things were learned about parachutes, descent engines, and of course we'll get some experience with the tools. Ed __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] nwa 2696 howardite/ eucrite megapairing
which meteorites are involved with this? __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ebay - Great SaU001, Piltusk, D'Orbigny
Hi I Have few interesting items on ebay ending tonight. Wery nice, clean and beautifull Sau001 from my collection. Also NWA 4560 LL3.1 NWA 4438 L3.1 NWA 4965 DIO Thuathe Pultusk (very fresh) NWA xxx CV3 - beautifull http://stores.ebay.com/id=41816610?ssPageName=ME:F:ST http://stores.ebay.com/PolandMET-Store -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Mars Pic...
ya think they may be artifax from the lander's motors? Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Mark Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 4:39 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Mars Pic... Whilst playing with some of the latest Mars pics, I noticed what look like strange little holes in the soil... http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn181/lunartick007/marsholes.jpg Original image here: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=878cID=25 Any thoughts on what they might be? Could it be moisture escaping from the soil? Best, Mark Ford CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NASA'S Phoenix Lander Robotic Arm Camera Sees Possible Ice
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-090 NASA'S Phoenix Lander Robotic Arm Camera Sees Possible Ice Jet Propulsion Laboratory May 30, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz.-- Scientists have discovered what may be ice that was exposed when soil was blown away as NASA's Phoenix spacecraft landed on Mars last Sunday, May 25. The possible ice appears in an image the robotic arm camera took underneath the lander, near a footpad. We could very well be seeing rock, or we could be seeing exposed ice in the retrorocket blast zone, said Ray Arvidson of Washington University, St. Louis, Mo., co-investigator for the robotic arm. We'll test the two ideas by getting more data, including color data, from the robotic arm camera. We think that if the hard features are ice, they will become brighter because atmospheric water vapor will collect as new frost on the ice. Full confirmation of what we're seeing will come when we excavate and analyze layers in the nearby workspace, Arvidson said. Testing last night of a Phoenix instrument that bakes and sniffs samples to identify ingredients identified a possible short circuit. This prompted commands for diagnostic steps to be developed and sent to the lander in the next few days. The instrument is the Thermal and Evolved Gas Analyzer. It includes a calorimeter that tracks how much heat is needed to melt or vaporize substances in a sample, plus a mass spectrometer to examine vapors driven off by the heat. The Thursday, May 29, tests recorded electrical behavior consistent with an intermittent short circuit in the spectrometer portion. We have developed a strategy to gain a better understanding of this behavior, and we have identified workarounds for some of the possibilities, said William Boynton of the University of Arizona, Tucson, lead scientist for the instrument. The latest data from the Canadian Space Agency's weather station shows another sunny day at the Phoenix landing site with temperatures holding at minus 30 degrees Celsius (minus 22 degrees Fahrenheit) as the sol's high, and a low of minus 80 degrees Celsius (minus 112 degrees Fahrenheit). The lidar instrument was activated for a 15-minute period just before noon local Mars time, and showed increasing dust in the atmosphere. This is the first time lidar technology has been used on the surface of another planet, said the meteorological station's chief engineer, Mike Daly, from MDA in Brampton, Canada. The team is elated that we are getting such interesting data about the dust dynamics in the atmosphere. The mission passed a safe to proceed review on Thursday evening, meeting criteria to proceed with evaluating and using the science instruments. We have evaluated the performance of the spacecraft on the surface and found we're ready to move forward. While we are still investigating instrument performance such as the anomaly on TEGA [Thermal and Evolved Gas Analyzer], the spacecraft's infrastructure has passed its tests and gets a clean bill of health, said David Spencer of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., deputy project manager for Phoenix. We're still in the process of checking out our instruments, Phoenix project scientist Leslie Tamppari of JPL said. The process is designed to be very flexible, to respond to discoveries and issues that come up every day. We're in the process of taking images and getting color information that will help us understand soil properties. This will help us understand where best to first touch the soil and then where and how best to dig. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-5011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-090 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: May 26-30, 2008
MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES May 26-30, 2008 o Labeatis Catenae (Released 26 May 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080526a o Tartarus Montes (Released 27 May 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080527a o Kasei Channels (Released 28 May 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080528a o Kasei Valles (Released 29 May 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080529a o Kasei Valles (Released 30 May 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080530a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Just Another Question
So if an object were to be taken into orbit and given excape velosity from earth's gravitational well such that it was not in orbit around earth, but in orbit around the sun and at a later time reentered earth's gravity well, passed thru the atmosphere and survived to impact the earth, it would not be a meteorite simply because it was not ejected fron terra firma by natural means? Granted that man made debri isn't classed as a meteorite but non man made material shouldn't be penalized because an astronaught decided to impart excape velosity to a rock,puting it into orbit around the sun. I say material surviving to impact from any source (excluding man made) would and should be called a meteorite. Pete - Original Message - From: Jeff Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Just Another Question Alan Rubin and I grappled with this issue in our article in Meteorite! 10 years ago, What is a meteorite? The pursuit of a comprehensive definition. We wanted a definition that would exclude things like tektites from being called meteorites. Our definition then said that, to be called a meteorite, an object had to escape the dominant gravitational influence of its parent body. In this case, we would say that a terrestrial meteorite would be an object ejected from earth by natural causes (i.e., by impact), which entered an orbit around the sun and later was re-accreted by the earth. Nothing like this has ever been found. Its distinguishing properties might be a fusion crust, evidence for cosmic-ray exposure in space, and lithology that is completely exotic for its find location. Without an exposure history (or being an observed fall) it would be a very tough sell... a Wingstar. Jeff At 12:24 AM 5/30/2008, Pete Shugar wrote: Hello list, I've given this more than just a passing thought as I think this is a very intreguing question. If an impactor smacks into the moon with enough energy, objects will be dislodged. If they make it to earth intact, we have a luner meteorite. Same goes for Mars and Astroid 4Vesta. So,.suppose we have a very high speed impactor that hits earth, and dislodges material that is now in orbit. If the material crosses Earth's orbit again, and survives to the surface of earth, would it be modified in it's appearance to the extent that it would be seen as a meteorite and not just another rock? Has anything ever been found that might be in this class of material? Would there be anything that would set it apart as a different rock/meteorite? Pete __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fw: New Issue: Meteorites on Mars
Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: PSRD [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 7:12 PM Subject: New Issue: Meteorites on Mars Announcement from Planetary Science Research Discoveries [PSRD] New Issue: No surprise that there are meteorites on other planets. Now that we've seen them on Mars, what do we know about them and what does their geochemistry tell us about the environment where they landed? - We invite you to: READ: First summary paragraph for a quick overview PRINT: pdf version VIEW: short slide summary - FULL ARTICLE at: http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/May08/MetsOnMars.html - PSRD is an educational web site supported by NASA's SMD Cosmochemistry Program and the Hawaii Space Grant Consortium to share the latest research on meteorites, planets, moons, and other solar system bodies. You are subscribed to our free mailing list. We never send attachments. For more information please see http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/PSRDsubscribe.html - Jeff Taylor and Linda Martel Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, University of Hawaii [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice (808) 956-3899 fax (808) 956-6322 http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Just Another Question
Hi Pete, I don't think it would be possible for an astronaut to throw an object, rock or otherwise out of the orbit of the Earth. (lets not talk about the Hassablat that got away) Seems like that would be possible but if you think about it, both the astronaut and the rock are in orbit around the Sun. Even a hard throw towards the Sun would only start the rock moving back and forth in roughly the same orbit the Earth is in. You might have better luck with trying to reduce it's energy (a retro so to speak throw) so it would loose energy and fall into a tighter orbit towards the sun. You have to think about the actual speed the Earth is traveling around the Sun. Any throw would most likely not be able to leave the Earth/Moon orbit. Even if an astronaut was well away from the Earth Moon system in order for the astronaut to not drop directly into the Sun he would have to have an orbit around the Sun. So even throwing objects without major gravity near by would even be difficult. It's why objects in the inner solar system have a harder time coming out (gaining energy) than objects have loosing energy and going in towards the inner planets and Sun. Jeff Grossman wrote: to be called a meteorite, an object had to escape the dominant gravitational influence of its parent body. In this case, we would say that a terrestrial (Earth) meteorite would be an object ejected from earth by natural causes (i.e., by impact), which entered an orbit around the sun and later was re-accreted (fell as a meteoroid, became a meteor and then meteorite when it survived passage) by and to the earth. Jeff states: Nothing like this has ever been found. Its distinguishing properties might be a fusion crust, evidence for cosmic-ray exposure in space, and lithology that is completely exotic for its find location. Without an exposure history (or being an observed fall) it would be a very tough sell. Hope that helps. All my best! --AL Mitterling Pete Shugar wrote: So if an object were to be taken into orbit and given excape velosity from earth's gravitational well such that it was not in orbit around earth, but in orbit around the sun and at a later time reentered earth's gravity well, passed thru the atmosphere and survived to impact the earth, it would not be a meteorite simply because it was not ejected fron terra firma by natural means? Granted that man made debri isn't classed as a meteorite but non man made material shouldn't be penalized because an astronaught decided to impart excape velosity to a rock,puting it into orbit around the sun. I say material surviving to impact from any source (excluding man made) would and should be called a meteorite. Pete __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad - Meteorite Mag, Australia's Craters, North Dakota Meteorites
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[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 31, 2008
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_31_2008.html __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Just Another Question
Hi, All, This is an old Post of mine from 2003 (and quotes from an even earlier one): Actually, there are a number of sedimentary meteorites. It's just that they are not acknowledged to be meteorites. If you have the CDROM of the Catalogue, have the software assemble you a list of pseudometeorites that are not irons. Or just search for BLECKENSTAD (April 11, 1925) SWEDEN, a sedimentary meteorite of white limestone complete with fossil shells. It was reported on by Dr. Assar Hadding of the Swedish Geological Institute in 1939 who, after a long investigation, decided it really was a meteorite. The chief reason for so believing is that it is a WITNESSED FALL and you really can't get much better than that. BLECKENSTAD, Ostergotland, Sweden, April 11, 1925 A meteor was observed, leaving a trail of smoke. Stones are said to have fallen, and fragments of a white, porous limestone were picked up, differing from the local rocks. The possibly meteoritic nature of this material has been the subject of considerable discussion, N. Zenzen (1942, 1943); A. Hadding (1943); F.C. Cross (1947). Pseudometeorite, F.E. Wickman A. Uddenberg-Anderson (1982). However, he was widely regarded as whacky and shut up about it for 20 years. Hadding was so discouraged by the reception of his earlier paper that, when he discovered another sedimentary meteorite, he threw it away! Only much later, in the 1950's, when he realized that they could have been Earthites, did he write about the two stones again. [Earthites are meteorites blasted off the Earth into independent orbit, then later encounter the Earth as a meteoroid. Simulations by Jay Melosh suggested the process could take from 100,000 years to 5 million years.] The modern SGU official report on the stone: http://www.sgu.se/cgi-bin/egwcgi/53210/screen.tcl/name=show_recordformat=normalhost=georegentry1=0560field1=komlogic1=attr1=page=2norec=1service=sgulang=eng The stone described as a limestone... hence is a pseudometeorite. (1982) Boy, there's nothing like dogma for settling an issue quickly, is there? Here is an article by Nininger that contains a fuller account of Bleckenstad's fall: http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1967Metic...3..239N/245.000.html I can't cut'n'paste from this article because it's an image; jump ahead to page 245. A smooth gloss of a fusion crust is reported. Multiple witnesses to the fall. No native limestone in the area. Monica Grady discusses sedimentary meteorites in this 1994 Workshop (p.77): http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19960027473_1996032004.pdf Nininger is said to have found a small sedimentary meteorite, on March 24, 1933, while searching for fragments of Pasamonte. The stone in question was a dirty grey limestone with fragmentary shell bits fossilized in it and sporting a black fusion crust. He ruled out an artificial origin for the crust but was unwilling to claim it was a meteorite, apparently not because he didn't think it was a meteorite but because it wasn't worth the noise... Frank Cross wrote about sedimentary meteorites at length in the journal Popular Astronomy (Vol. 55, 1947, pp. 96-102), citing Trevlac (Indiana) and Montrose (West Virginia), two independently discovered sedimentary meteorites with identical green glassy crusts. The whereabouts of most of the sedimentary pseudometeorites is unknown, not surprising considering their reception, so the sophisticated tests that could be performed today are impossible. There's a kind of self-reinforcing judgement at work in that. 1. fusion crust, Check. 2. evidence for cosmic-ray exposure in space, Not Tested. 3. lithology that is completely exotic for its find location, Check. 4. being an observed fall, Check. 5. whereabouts, Unknown. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: AL Mitterling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Just Another Question Hi Pete, some material omitted Jeff states: Nothing like this has ever been found. Its distinguishing properties might be a fusion crust, evidence for cosmic-ray exposure in space, and lithology that is completely exotic for its find location. Without an exposure history (or being an observed fall) it would be a very tough sell. Hope that helps. All my best! --AL Mitterling Pete Shugar wrote: So if an object were to be taken into orbit and given excape velosity from earth's gravitational well such that it was not in orbit around earth, but in orbit around the sun and at a later time reentered earth's gravity well, passed thru the atmosphere and survived to impact the earth, it would not be a meteorite simply because it was not ejected fron terra firma by natural means? Granted that man made debri isn't classed as a meteorite but non man
