Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 15, 2008
Hi Michael, Awesome image of the large, recent Kainsaz find! When I saw that shape, I was sure I'd seen it before... http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_15_2008.html http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/1/1b/Sandcrawler.jpg --Rob ;-) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here?
Dear Martin and list, I can't comment on the CO3 oxymoron, but I am the inventor of the type 3.05 classification, so I can comment on that. As we have studied type 3 chondrites over the last 30 years, especially ordinary and CO chondrites, we have been gradually refining the 1967 Van Schmus and Wood classification scheme. In 1980, we realized that type 3 chondrites alone showed as great a range of metamorphic effects as type 4-6 did, so Sears and coworkers including me, proposed subdividing type 3 into types 3.0-3.9. In 2005, Grossman and Brearley (2005) described a similar wide range of metamorphic effects just between types 3.0 and 3.2 and subdivided this into 3.00-3.15 by steps of 0.05. Since then, we have even begun to recognize different levels of metamorphic heating between types 3.00 and 3.05, and so we find Acfer 094 at type 3.00, Semarkona at type 3.01, ALHA77307 at type 3.03 (e.g., Bonal et al. 2007; Kimura, Grossman and Weisberg, 2008, MAPS in press). These differences are quite real and important. In type 3.05 ordinary chondrites, the olivine in chondrules has begun to decompose from its high-temperature state, the matrix chemistry is quite different, especially for sulfur, and the metal has greatly changed in structure and composition (all compared to the much, much rarer type 3.00-3.01 chondrites). Although these numbers do not tell you the peak metamorphic temperature, they are very useful in describing the various transitions that occur during metamorphic heating. The fact that there may be many possible combinations of chemical group and petrologic type is a good thing, although there certainly aren't 1500. Basically, current usage is 3.00-3.04 (5 categories), 3.05-3.15 (3 categories), 3.2-3.9 (8 catagories), 4-7 (4 categories) = 20 categories. I suppose if you double this for classifiers who can't make up their minds, you get ~40 categories, times 3 chondrite groups plus 2 transitional groups = ~200 total combinations. Jeff At 11:24 PM 6/15/2008, Dark Matter wrote: Hi All, Twice in the past few days, I found myself staring at the screen in confused disbelief. The two statements in sales ads: a yet unclassified CO3 and absolutely rare type L3.05 ! just seem to me to border on absurdity. How can a unclassified specimen be identified by its classification? And if we carry petrological grade to the hundredths, then theoretically we could have over 1500 ordinary chondrite designations not to mention all the transitional possibilities. I fail to see how that level of hypothetical opinionated hair splitting could do any good...except for ebay sales ads that is. Just an evening though when I should be working on something else. Cheers, Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here?
Hi Jeff, if this is state of the art of the classification scheme, and has been accepted by a majority of the meteoriticists, does this mean some important primitive meteorites finally need a refinement of their established classifications? I am thinking of (e. g.) the Krymka meteorite, which to my knowledge is an LL3.1. Does this have to be refined to become either an LL3.05, or an LL3.10, or an LL3.15 in the end? Just curious, Alex Berlin/Germany Original-Nachricht Datum: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 07:36:53 -0400 Von: Jeff Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Dark Matter [EMAIL PROTECTED], Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? Dear Martin and list, I can't comment on the CO3 oxymoron, but I am the inventor of the type 3.05 classification, so I can comment on that. As we have studied type 3 chondrites over the last 30 years, especially ordinary and CO chondrites, we have been gradually refining the 1967 Van Schmus and Wood classification scheme. In 1980, we realized that type 3 chondrites alone showed as great a range of metamorphic effects as type 4-6 did, so Sears and coworkers including me, proposed subdividing type 3 into types 3.0-3.9. In 2005, Grossman and Brearley (2005) described a similar wide range of metamorphic effects just between types 3.0 and 3.2 and subdivided this into 3.00-3.15 by steps of 0.05. Since then, we have even begun to recognize different levels of metamorphic heating between types 3.00 and 3.05, and so we find Acfer 094 at type 3.00, Semarkona at type 3.01, ALHA77307 at type 3.03 (e.g., Bonal et al. 2007; Kimura, Grossman and Weisberg, 2008, MAPS in press). These differences are quite real and important. In type 3.05 ordinary chondrites, the olivine in chondrules has begun to decompose from its high-temperature state, the matrix chemistry is quite different, especially for sulfur, and the metal has greatly changed in structure and composition (all compared to the much, much rarer type 3.00-3.01 chondrites). Although these numbers do not tell you the peak metamorphic temperature, they are very useful in describing the various transitions that occur during metamorphic heating. The fact that there may be many possible combinations of chemical group and petrologic type is a good thing, although there certainly aren't 1500. Basically, current usage is 3.00-3.04 (5 categories), 3.05-3.15 (3 categories), 3.2-3.9 (8 catagories), 4-7 (4 categories) = 20 categories. I suppose if you double this for classifiers who can't make up their minds, you get ~40 categories, times 3 chondrite groups plus 2 transitional groups = ~200 total combinations. Jeff At 11:24 PM 6/15/2008, Dark Matter wrote: Hi All, Twice in the past few days, I found myself staring at the screen in confused disbelief. The two statements in sales ads: a yet unclassified CO3 and absolutely rare type L3.05 ! just seem to me to border on absurdity. How can a unclassified specimen be identified by its classification? And if we carry petrological grade to the hundredths, then theoretically we could have over 1500 ordinary chondrite designations not to mention all the transitional possibilities. I fail to see how that level of hypothetical opinionated hair splitting could do any good...except for ebay sales ads that is. Just an evening though when I should be working on something else. Cheers, Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here?
Martin, others, as for the unclassified CO3 that was indeed the wrong term. I was referring to a CO3 type chondrite whose classification has not yet reached official status. I sincerely apologize for causing confused disbelief. Svend www.meteorite-recon.com - Jeff Grossman wrote: Dear Martin and list, I can't comment on the CO3 oxymoron, but I am the inventor of the type 3.05 classification, so I can comment on that. As we have studied type 3 chondrites over the last 30 years, especially ordinary and CO chondrites, we have been gradually refining the 1967 Van Schmus and Wood classification scheme. In 1980, we realized that type 3 chondrites alone showed as great a range of metamorphic effects as type 4-6 did, so Sears and coworkers including me, proposed subdividing type 3 into types 3.0-3.9. In 2005, Grossman and Brearley (2005) described a similar wide range of metamorphic effects just between types 3.0 and 3.2 and subdivided this into 3.00-3.15 by steps of 0.05. Since then, we have even begun to recognize different levels of metamorphic heating between types 3.00 and 3.05, and so we find Acfer 094 at type 3.00, Semarkona at type 3.01, ALHA77307 at type 3.03 (e.g., Bonal et al. 2007; Kimura, Grossman and Weisberg, 2008, MAPS in press). These differences are quite real and important. In type 3.05 ordinary chondrites, the olivine in chondrules has begun to decompose from its high-temperature state, the matrix chemistry is quite different, especially for sulfur, and the metal has greatly changed in structure and composition (all compared to the much, much rarer type 3.00-3.01 chondrites). Although these numbers do not tell you the peak metamorphic temperature, they are very useful in describing the various transitions that occur during metamorphic heating. The fact that there may be many possible combinations of chemical group and petrologic type is a good thing, although there certainly aren't 1500. Basically, current usage is 3.00-3.04 (5 categories), 3.05-3.15 (3 categories), 3.2-3.9 (8 catagories), 4-7 (4 categories) = 20 categories. I suppose if you double this for classifiers who can't make up their minds, you get ~40 categories, times 3 chondrite groups plus 2 transitional groups = ~200 total combinations. Jeff At 11:24 PM 6/15/2008, Dark Matter wrote: Hi All, Twice in the past few days, I found myself staring at the screen in confused disbelief. The two statements in sales ads: a yet unclassified CO3 and absolutely rare type L3.05 ! just seem to me to border on absurdity. How can a unclassified specimen be identified by its classification? And if we carry petrological grade to the hundredths, then theoretically we could have over 1500 ordinary chondrite designations not to mention all the transitional possibilities. I fail to see how that level of hypothetical opinionated hair splitting could do any good...except for ebay sales ads that is. Just an evening though when I should be working on something else. Cheers, Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- www.niger-meteorite-recon.de __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here?
Hello Jeff and All, Thank you very much for the thorough and thoughtful reply. I certainly would not disagree with you on such matters. Now I'm curious if refinement in classification will be made for Krymka (like Alex): http://www.meteorite.com/MT_links/2003/March/1krymka.jpg Bishunpur: http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2005/December/bishunpur.jpg and what about carbonaceous chondrites like Leoville, currently a CV3.0 I believe: http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2004/December/leo_cai.jpg And thanks to Svend for his clarification. Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here?
Yes. All of the low-petrologic-type chondrites can be refined. In Grossman and Brearley (2005) we reclassified Krymka as type 3.2 and Bishunpur as type 3.15. Here is the entire set of ordinary chondrite petrologic types from that paper: Semarkona -- 3.00 QUE 97008 -- 3.05 MET 00526 -- 3.05 EET 90161 -- 3.05 NWA 1756 -- 3.10 NWA 3127 -- 3.10 Roosevelt County 075 -- 3.10 MET 96503 -- 3.10 Adrar 003 -- 3.10 Bishunpur -- 3.15 Y-791324 -- 3.15 Y-791558 -- 3.15 Y-793596 -- 3.2 Krymka -- 3.2 GRO 95502 -- 3.2 GRO 95544 -- 3.2 jeff At 08:11 AM 6/16/2008, Alexander Seidel wrote: Hi Jeff, if this is state of the art of the classification scheme, and has been accepted by a majority of the meteoriticists, does this mean some important primitive meteorites finally need a refinement of their established classifications? I am thinking of (e. g.) the Krymka meteorite, which to my knowledge is an LL3.1. Does this have to be refined to become either an LL3.05, or an LL3.10, or an LL3.15 in the end? Just curious, Alex Berlin/Germany Original-Nachricht Datum: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 07:36:53 -0400 Von: Jeff Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Dark Matter [EMAIL PROTECTED], Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? Dear Martin and list, I can't comment on the CO3 oxymoron, but I am the inventor of the type 3.05 classification, so I can comment on that. As we have studied type 3 chondrites over the last 30 years, especially ordinary and CO chondrites, we have been gradually refining the 1967 Van Schmus and Wood classification scheme. In 1980, we realized that type 3 chondrites alone showed as great a range of metamorphic effects as type 4-6 did, so Sears and coworkers including me, proposed subdividing type 3 into types 3.0-3.9. In 2005, Grossman and Brearley (2005) described a similar wide range of metamorphic effects just between types 3.0 and 3.2 and subdivided this into 3.00-3.15 by steps of 0.05. Since then, we have even begun to recognize different levels of metamorphic heating between types 3.00 and 3.05, and so we find Acfer 094 at type 3.00, Semarkona at type 3.01, ALHA77307 at type 3.03 (e.g., Bonal et al. 2007; Kimura, Grossman and Weisberg, 2008, MAPS in press). These differences are quite real and important. In type 3.05 ordinary chondrites, the olivine in chondrules has begun to decompose from its high-temperature state, the matrix chemistry is quite different, especially for sulfur, and the metal has greatly changed in structure and composition (all compared to the much, much rarer type 3.00-3.01 chondrites). Although these numbers do not tell you the peak metamorphic temperature, they are very useful in describing the various transitions that occur during metamorphic heating. The fact that there may be many possible combinations of chemical group and petrologic type is a good thing, although there certainly aren't 1500. Basically, current usage is 3.00-3.04 (5 categories), 3.05-3.15 (3 categories), 3.2-3.9 (8 catagories), 4-7 (4 categories) = 20 categories. I suppose if you double this for classifiers who can't make up their minds, you get ~40 categories, times 3 chondrite groups plus 2 transitional groups = ~200 total combinations. Jeff At 11:24 PM 6/15/2008, Dark Matter wrote: Hi All, Twice in the past few days, I found myself staring at the screen in confused disbelief. The two statements in sales ads: a yet unclassified CO3 and absolutely rare type L3.05 ! just seem to me to border on absurdity. How can a unclassified specimen be identified by its classification? And if we carry petrological grade to the hundredths, then theoretically we could have over 1500 ordinary chondrite designations not to mention all the transitional possibilities. I fail to see how that level of hypothetical opinionated hair splitting could do any good...except for ebay sales ads that is. Just an evening though when I should be working on something else. Cheers, Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here?
Thank you, Jeff, for your quick reply. Seems that some type collectors will now feel a need to expand their meteorite inventories with the new subclasses, which is not an easy, or even impossible, task with almost all of those mentioned meteorites out of reach for a private person. So let´s hope some more exotic low-petrologic-type chondrites will surface in NWA or other hot deserts, as time goes by... Alex Berlin/Germany [whose Krymka had to step down a bit from the top of the ladder (sigh!) - yet remains a beauty!] Original-Nachricht Datum: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:50:53 -0400 Von: Jeff Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Alexander Seidel [EMAIL PROTECTED], meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? Yes. All of the low-petrologic-type chondrites can be refined. In Grossman and Brearley (2005) we reclassified Krymka as type 3.2 and Bishunpur as type 3.15. Here is the entire set of ordinary chondrite petrologic types from that paper: Semarkona -- 3.00 QUE 97008 -- 3.05 MET 00526 -- 3.05 EET 90161 -- 3.05 NWA 1756 -- 3.10 NWA 3127 -- 3.10 Roosevelt County 075 -- 3.10 MET 96503 -- 3.10 Adrar 003 -- 3.10 Bishunpur -- 3.15 Y-791324 -- 3.15 Y-791558 -- 3.15 Y-793596 -- 3.2 Krymka -- 3.2 GRO 95502 -- 3.2 GRO 95544 -- 3.2 jeff At 08:11 AM 6/16/2008, Alexander Seidel wrote: Hi Jeff, if this is state of the art of the classification scheme, and has been accepted by a majority of the meteoriticists, does this mean some important primitive meteorites finally need a refinement of their established classifications? I am thinking of (e. g.) the Krymka meteorite, which to my knowledge is an LL3.1. Does this have to be refined to become either an LL3.05, or an LL3.10, or an LL3.15 in the end? Just curious, Alex Berlin/Germany Original-Nachricht Datum: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 07:36:53 -0400 Von: Jeff Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Dark Matter [EMAIL PROTECTED], Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? Dear Martin and list, I can't comment on the CO3 oxymoron, but I am the inventor of the type 3.05 classification, so I can comment on that. As we have studied type 3 chondrites over the last 30 years, especially ordinary and CO chondrites, we have been gradually refining the 1967 Van Schmus and Wood classification scheme. In 1980, we realized that type 3 chondrites alone showed as great a range of metamorphic effects as type 4-6 did, so Sears and coworkers including me, proposed subdividing type 3 into types 3.0-3.9. In 2005, Grossman and Brearley (2005) described a similar wide range of metamorphic effects just between types 3.0 and 3.2 and subdivided this into 3.00-3.15 by steps of 0.05. Since then, we have even begun to recognize different levels of metamorphic heating between types 3.00 and 3.05, and so we find Acfer 094 at type 3.00, Semarkona at type 3.01, ALHA77307 at type 3.03 (e.g., Bonal et al. 2007; Kimura, Grossman and Weisberg, 2008, MAPS in press). These differences are quite real and important. In type 3.05 ordinary chondrites, the olivine in chondrules has begun to decompose from its high-temperature state, the matrix chemistry is quite different, especially for sulfur, and the metal has greatly changed in structure and composition (all compared to the much, much rarer type 3.00-3.01 chondrites). Although these numbers do not tell you the peak metamorphic temperature, they are very useful in describing the various transitions that occur during metamorphic heating. The fact that there may be many possible combinations of chemical group and petrologic type is a good thing, although there certainly aren't 1500. Basically, current usage is 3.00-3.04 (5 categories), 3.05-3.15 (3 categories), 3.2-3.9 (8 catagories), 4-7 (4 categories) = 20 categories. I suppose if you double this for classifiers who can't make up their minds, you get ~40 categories, times 3 chondrite groups plus 2 transitional groups = ~200 total combinations. Jeff At 11:24 PM 6/15/2008, Dark Matter wrote: Hi All, Twice in the past few days, I found myself staring at the screen in confused disbelief. The two statements in sales ads: a yet unclassified CO3 and absolutely rare type L3.05 ! just seem to me to border on absurdity. How can a unclassified specimen be identified by its classification? And if we carry petrological grade to the hundredths, then theoretically we could have over 1500 ordinary chondrite designations not to mention all the transitional possibilities. I fail to see how that level of hypothetical opinionated hair splitting could do any good...except for ebay sales ads that is.
Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here?
Yes, thanks to Jeff for these clearings and examples for LL's. Note that, in contrast to the Met Bull on line, in the new edition of Meteorites from A to Z, the LL petrological types as given by Jeff are correctly mantioned, except for Bishunpur, which remained LL3.1 (but LL1.15 in Met. Bull.). Alex, 2 little sisters of your Krymka, a complete slice of 17.4 grams and another of 28.2 g will be exhibited next week-end in Ensisheim (theme: meteorites from Russia and Eastern Europe). More news on Ensisheim (latest info) to follow later today. Best to all, Zelimir A 17:34 16/06/2008 +0200, Alexander Seidel a écrit : Thank you, Jeff, for your quick reply. Seems that some type collectors will now feel a need to expand their meteorite inventories with the new subclasses, which is not an easy, or even impossible, task with almost all of those mentioned meteorites out of reach for a private person. So let´s hope some more exotic low-petrologic-type chondrites will surface in NWA or other hot deserts, as time goes by... Alex Berlin/Germany [whose Krymka had to step down a bit from the top of the ladder (sigh!) - yet remains a beauty!] Original-Nachricht Datum: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:50:53 -0400 Von: Jeff Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Alexander Seidel [EMAIL PROTECTED], meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? Yes. All of the low-petrologic-type chondrites can be refined. In Grossman and Brearley (2005) we reclassified Krymka as type 3.2 and Bishunpur as type 3.15. Here is the entire set of ordinary chondrite petrologic types from that paper: Semarkona -- 3.00 QUE 97008 -- 3.05 MET 00526 -- 3.05 EET 90161 -- 3.05 NWA 1756 -- 3.10 NWA 3127 -- 3.10 Roosevelt County 075 -- 3.10 MET 96503 -- 3.10 Adrar 003 -- 3.10 Bishunpur -- 3.15 Y-791324 -- 3.15 Y-791558 -- 3.15 Y-793596 -- 3.2 Krymka -- 3.2 GRO 95502 -- 3.2 GRO 95544 -- 3.2 jeff At 08:11 AM 6/16/2008, Alexander Seidel wrote: Hi Jeff, if this is state of the art of the classification scheme, and has been accepted by a majority of the meteoriticists, does this mean some important primitive meteorites finally need a refinement of their established classifications? I am thinking of (e. g.) the Krymka meteorite, which to my knowledge is an LL3.1. Does this have to be refined to become either an LL3.05, or an LL3.10, or an LL3.15 in the end? Just curious, Alex Berlin/Germany Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Times archives
Hello, I just learned that the british newspaper Times had put all of its archives online, for free. You can browse and consult any single issue of this newspaper from 1785 to 1985. I typed meteorite in the search engine and found 551 results. Maybe a good way to get information about well known worldwide falls, british falls and potential new finds to do ? The link is http://archive.timesonline.co.uk Pierre-Marie Pele www.meteor-center.com www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com _ Envoyez avec Yahoo! Mail. Une boite mail plus intelligente http://mail.yahoo.fr __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Times archives
On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:06:42 +0200 (CEST), you wrote: I typed meteorite in the search engine and found 551 results. aerolite gives 235 results: http://archive.timesonline.co.uk/tol/keywordsearch.arc __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley
me dave etched a totally bitchin', 70% metal, pv completeslice , fusion-crusted yesterday- turned out beautiful! --- On Sat, 6/14/08, Dark Matter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Dark Matter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 9:13 PM Sorry, forgot the link: http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2006/September/Micro_Visions.htm happy viewing. On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 7:12 PM, Dark Matter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bernd and All, For a close up view of PV, check out Tom's Micro Visions article on it. I suspect that piece might be the PV with the finest polish in the world. Thanks Tom! -Martin On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 9:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Farmer writes: I found one stone, and bought many more for a total of more than 15 kilos. and: Happy Birthday to one of my favorite meteorites A very enthusiastic Mike Farmer sent me this mail on Wed, 22 Jul 1998: Bernd, I just returned from the UofA where most of the analysis is being done. They loved this piece. It is quite obvious that this chondrite was smashed in a huge shock event and metal flowed into the stone crushed pieces. I wish they were all this nice! I had to pay over $...*/ gram for this slice and I will try to get another since it is so incredible. * amount canceled by me because I don't know if Mike wants to keep this private Best wishes from the happy owner of an 11.5-gram metal-poor slice (M. Farmer), a 3.9-gram metal-rich slice (M. Blood) and a PV thin section (M. Farmer), Bernd __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Times archives
This is a terrific development. The Times normally sells its database to libraries, and it is certainly not for free! Many libraries in the NYC area even have a restriction that the Times database must be used on site at the library to keep the cost down, unlike other library databases maintained by the libraries that can be accessed at home, so long as one has a library card. I took a quick look, and it seems that the free part is only an introductory offer. Still, if the price is reasonable, it is a great resource, and sure beats traveling into the City to use the database on site at a public library. Will be interesting to see how this develops. Perhaps the Times realizes there is more money to be made by selling the archives over the internet, rather than focusing on library sales. In any event, thanks so much for the information that this resource is now available for free on line - at least for the time being! Mark Grossman - Original Message - From: Pelé Pierre-Marie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MeteoriteList meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 2:06 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The Times archives Hello, I just learned that the british newspaper Times had put all of its archives online, for free. You can browse and consult any single issue of this newspaper from 1785 to 1985. I typed meteorite in the search engine and found 551 results. Maybe a good way to get information about well known worldwide falls, british falls and potential new finds to do ? The link is http://archive.timesonline.co.uk Pierre-Marie Pele www.meteor-center.com www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com _ Envoyez avec Yahoo! Mail. Une boite mail plus intelligente http://mail.yahoo.fr __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Hot new vacation spots
Anyone want to calculate the surface temps for these puppies? http://esciencenews.com/articles/2008/06/16/a.trio.super.earths A trio of super-Earths Published: Monday, June 16, 2008 - 09:15 in Astronomy Space Today, at an international conference, a team of European astronomers announced a remarkable breakthrough in the field of extra-solar planets. Using the HARPS instrument at the ESO La Silla Observatory, they have found a triple system of super-Earths around the star HD 40307. Looking at their entire sample studied with HARPS, the astronomers count a total of 45 candidate planets with a mass below 30 Earth masses and an orbital period shorter than 50 days. This implies that one solar-like star out of three harbours such planets. Does every single star harbour planets and, if yes, how many? wonders planet hunter Michel Mayor from Geneva Observatory. We may not yet know the answer but we are making huge progress towards it. Since the discovery in 1995 of a planet around the star 51 Pegasi by Mayor and Didier Queloz, more than 270 exoplanets have been found, mostly around solar-like stars. Most of these planets are giants, such as Jupiter or Saturn, and current statistics show that about 1 out of 14 stars harbours this kind of planet. With the advent of much more precise instruments such as the HARPS spectrograph on ESO's 3.6-m telescope at La Silla, we can now discover smaller planets, with masses between 2 and 10 times the Earth's mass, says Stéphane Udry, one of Mayor's colleagues. Such planets are called super-Earths, as they are more massive than the Earth but less massive than Uranus and Neptune (about 15 Earth masses). The group of astronomers have now discovered a system of three super-Earths around a rather normal star, which is slightly less massive than our Sun, and is located 42 light-years away towards the southern Doradus and Pictor constellations. We have made very precise measurements of the velocity of the star HD 40307 over the last five years, which clearly reveal the presence of three planets, says Mayor. The planets, having 4.2, 6.7, and 9.4 times the mass of the Earth, orbit the star with periods of 4.3, 9.6, and 20.4 days, respectively. The perturbations induced by the planets are really tiny - the mass of the smallest planets is one hundred thousand times smaller than that of the star - and only the high sensitivity of HARPS made it possible to detect them, says co-author François Bouchy, from the Institut d'Astrophysique de Paris, France. Indeed, each planet induces a motion of the star of only a few metres per second. At the same conference, the team of astronomers announced the discovery of two other planetary systems, also with the HARPS spectrograph. In one, a super-Earth (7.5 Earth masses) orbits the star HD 181433 in 9.5 days. This star also hosts a Jupiter-like planet with a period close to 3 years. The second system contains a 22 Earth-mass planet having a period of 4 days and a Saturn-like planet with a 3-year period as well. Clearly these planets are only the tip of the iceberg, says Mayor. The analysis of all the stars studied with HARPS shows that about one third of all solar-like stars have either super-Earth or Neptune-like planets with orbital periods shorter than 50 days. A planet in a tight, short-period orbit is indeed easier to find than one in a wide, long-period orbit. It is most probable that there are many other planets present: not only super-Earth and Neptune-like planets with longer periods, but also Earth-like planets that we cannot detect yet. Add to it the Jupiter-like planets already known, and you may well arrive at the conclusion that planets are ubiquitous, concludes Udry. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Crater in Portugal ?
Hello list, in the Earth Impact Database I can not find this structure, which is about 20km in diameter and located in Morais Macedo de Cavaleiros, Portugal Google satellite map : http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ojJ5jSqmKP4/R124tZfg-vI/BQw/Vh83Xqry1kg/La%2BMancha.JPGimgrefurl=http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Bl2frv3O6R3s9lNq047TtAh=600w=800sz=46hl=destart=25um=1tbnid=mkVaT3kxnskm4M:tbnh=107tbnw=143prev=/images%3Fq%3DEspana%2B%252B%2522la%2Bmancha%2522%26start%3D18%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26sa%3DN Does anybody know anything about the origin of this round structure ? Thank you, with best wishes from the Ries-crater in Germany. Thomas Kurtz PS.: In the case anybody of you is planning to visit the famous RIES-Crater (27km) in this summer, just let me know. I´m living and working in this impact site since 2007. -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Crater in Portugal ?
Sorry, the link is wrong. Just google map for : Morais Macedo de Cavaleiros Portugaland zoom out. Original-Nachricht Datum: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:48:51 +0200 Von: Thomas Kurtz [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Crater in Portugal ? Hello list, in the Earth Impact Database I can not find this structure, which is about 20km in diameter and located in Morais Macedo de Cavaleiros Portugal Google satellite map : http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ojJ5jSqmKP4/R124tZfg-vI/BQw/Vh83Xqry1kg/La%2BMancha.JPGimgrefurl=http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Bl2frv3O6R3s9lNq047TtAh=600w=800sz=46hl=destart=25um=1tbnid=mkVaT3kxnskm4M:tbnh=107tbnw=143prev=/images%3Fq%3DEspana%2B%252B%2522la%2Bmancha%2522%26start%3D18%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26sa%3DN Does anybody know anything about the origin of this round structure ? Thank you, with best wishes from the Ries-crater in Germany. Thomas Kurtz PS.: In the case anybody of you is planning to visit the famous RIES-Crater (27km) in this summer, just let me know. I´m living and working in this impact site since 2007. -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad - eBay auctions closing shortly
Greetings all I have afew auctions closing shortly including tagish lakd currently around $400/gm Mars shergottite individuals currently around $200/gm polymict diogenite currently less than 25% of what it s sell for. Oriented sikhote-alins bassikounou vigarano, carancas, allende, an LL3 and others. See them all at http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=katy2kary -- Eric Olson 7682 Firethorn Dr Fayetteville, NC 28311 http://www.star-bits.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Portales Valley
Portales Valley was my first hunt for a fresh fall. Mike Farmer called to tell me about the fall. I wasn't able to get away immediately, but I borrowed a bunch of cash and a couple days later met Mike and Jack and Devon Shrader in southern New Mexico and followed Mike back to the fall site. I wound up sharing a hotel room with Mike and the first night there 2 locals showed up with a couple stones looking for Mike.Mike graciously allowed me to buy one of the stones. As I recall it was a very metal rich 212 gram stone purchased for $1500. The next day Mike told me he had a buyer for the stone for $2500. Since I was working with borrowed money I took the sale and over the years have regreted it many times. I never found a piece myself, but from descriptions of later finds I was within 50 meters of a number of pieces. I met Skip Wilson and spent several hours talking with him at his house. Mike and I got to look over the meteorites Skip had found over the years and through Skip, Mike and I were able to purchase and split what came to be known as Roosevelt County 102. Aside from being hot it was a very enjoyable time. Can't wait for the next fall. -- Eric Olson 7682 Firethorn Dr Fayetteville, NC 28311 http://www.star-bits.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Genetic Building Blocks May Have Formed in Space (Murchison Meteorite)
http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn14142-genetic-building-blocks-may-have-formed-in-space.html Genetic building blocks may have formed in space Rachel Courtland New Scientist 13 June 2008 Some fundamental building blocks of our genetic code might have come from outer space, according to a controversial new meteorite study. The study suggests that some organic compounds associated with genetic material might have formed in a meteorite called Murchison before it landed in Australia in 1969. The chemicals are two kinds of nucleobases, ring-like carbon molecules that are essential for the creation of nucleic acids like DNA and RNA. The find might bolster claims that meteorites delivered some of the chemicals needed to create life. It boosts the idea that the origin of life on Earth may have had an important contribution from an extraterrestrial object, says lead author Zita Martins, a chemist at Imperial College London in the UK. But it may be too early to conclude these nucleobases formed beyond the Earth, says Sandra Pizzarello, a chemist at Arizona State University in Tempe, US. The study raises a very interesting question that was raised a very long time ago, but I don't think it solves it, she told New Scientist. No one knows how life got its start. Primitive Earth conditions might not have been favourable http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg12617132.600-science-chemical-clues-to-the-origin-of-life-.html for the chemistry needed to create life's building blocks. Meteorite impacts Instead, researchers have argued that frequent bombardments by meteorites 3.8 billion years ago - when life is suspected to have first emerged - could have delivered the material to Earth, where it might have helped further the development of life. Studies of meteorites, as well as astronomical observations of interstellar dust and gas, have turned up a number of organic compounds, including sugars and phosphates. But nucleobases are also needed to make a nucleic acid like DNA or RNA. Such chemicals have been found in a number of meteorites, but no one was sure whether they were extraterrestrial in origin or the result of earthly contamination. Noisy signal To study the origins of these nucleobases, Martins and colleagues studied the mass of organic chemicals isolated from the meteorite. The team looked at two different isotopes of carbon in the chemicals, which included the nucleobases uracil and xanthine. The lighter version, carbon-12, is present on Earth in large amounts. Carbon-13 is more common in sweeping clouds of cold, interstellar gas. Large amounts of the stuff usually indicate the material did not form on Earth. The ratio of carbon-13 to carbon-12 was unusually high in the two nucleobases, leading the team to conclude the materials likely formed in the meteorite itself rather than on Earth. But Pizzarello says too many other chemicals were present in the samples to clearly distinguish the carbon ratio. Analytically, it's not convincing, Pizzarello told New Scientist. Astrobiology - Learn more in our out-of-this-world special report http://www.newscientistspace.com/channel/astronomy/astrobiology. Journal reference: Earth and Planetary Science Letters http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/0012821X (vol 270, p 130) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Stan turecki, proof of arrest for grand theft, burglery
I paid for a background check on Mr. Stan Turecki, and here is what I found, of course, tons of files, but the actual arrest and prison sentence are below. He was in prison from Sept 1995 until November 1996, and he stole more than $100,000 in this case. People, we are dealing with a real piece of human crap here, I have got emails from people in Russia, France, and USA. He owes meteorite dealers and collectors well over $100,000. I am, compiling a list to present to the Port Richeypolice department. If this con-man owes you money, let me know, I am going to shut this guy down. Michael Farmer Criminal Profile Subject Name:TURECKI, STANLEY FREDERICKDate:6/16/2008 5:29:21 PM Nationwide criminal search for TURECKI, STANLEY FREDERICK Subject: Name:TURECKI, STANLEY FOffender Status:INACTIVE OFFENDERSex:MALERace:WHITEHeight:5'6Eye color:GREENSSN:XXX-XX-7317Date of Birth:08/03/1975Offenses: Offense: 1BURG/UNNOCSTRUCT/CONVEYOffense State: FLOffense Date: 10/14/1994Case Number: 9504295Sentence: 1Sentence Begin Date:09/20/1995Actual Release:11/22/1996Admission Date:10/27/1995 Offense: 2BURG/UNNOCSTRUCT/CONVEYOffense State: FLOffense Date: 03/30/1995Case Number: 9504295 Offense: 3BURGLARY TOOLS-POSSESSOffense State: FLOffense Date: 10/14/1994Case Number: 9504295 Offense: 4GRAND THEFT O/$100,000 1STDEGOffense State: FLOffense Date: 10/14/1994Case Number: 9504295 Offense: 5TRAFFIC IN STOLEN PROPERTYOffense State: FLOffense Date: 10/14/1994Case Number: 9504295 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Morocco Trip
Many thanks to all those on the list who have already helped by giving tips about places to see on my trip around Morocco at the beginning of July. Any more are always welcome. Looking forward to it. Hope you all have a great time in Ensisheimdont think I can pull that in this year...will miss all the fun...was great last year...many thanks to Zelimir for that. Regards, Graham Ensor, UK __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Colorado DOW Habitat Stamp
Since there is a big one scheduled to come down somewhere over Colorado in the very near future, I wanted to get this tidbit of info out now to all the meteorite hunters that would travel here in such an event. My message has to do with the Division of Wildlife's Habitat Stamp. If you have purchased a Colorado hunting or fishing license this year, undoubtedly you were given council by the clerk selling you the license that you should also buy the Habitat Stamp for $5 which will allow you to access DOW property called State Wildlife Areas (SWA). What is the Stamp about? According to the DOW, All of the funds raised from the sale of these stamps will be used to benefit wildlife by acquiring or preserving habitat. Okay, so I don't necessarily disagree with any of that and it is probably well known by outdoors sportsmen but Here is something about this requirement to have the stamp that may not be so well known. If you are NOT a hunter, or an angler but say a hiker, or camper, or bird watcher, or picnicker, or sightseer, or meteorite hunter, etc., and you are in the age group 19 to 64 years old, you also will need to have this stamp to access DOW property listed in their property directory as an SWA or State Trust Land leased by the DOW. There are only a few exceptions to this rule. SWAs are all over the place in Colorado. Its not uncommon at all to head up a road into the hills around here and find a sign declaring you are about to enter State Wildlife Area. The cost of the stamp to the non-hunter is $10.25 per person. Okay so not so much. Have a car filled with 5 or six people in the 19-64 age group without the stamps and they all get cited, well then it could become an expensive access. Might even cost your group equal to the cost of a tank of diesel for your Hummer and we all know the sting in that. Okay, let the big one fall! Mike in CO __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Big Ebay Sale - 10+ Kilos Plus Special Auction
Hi All, We're having a BIG sale all this week with hundreds of NWA meteorites up for auction. We'll be listing more auctions than ever this week and need to move these meteorites now. Some BIG fusion crusted pieces too! Lots of meteorite starting at only $1.99 for 150+ grams. NWA 869, Canyon Diablo, Odessa, and 2 slices of NWA 2754 LL5, some NWA 4300, and 6 very nice pieces of NWA Mesosiderite to be listed in the next day or so. Also will be listing 2 very nice NWA chondrites with HUGE Protruding Chondrules, look for these this week. In the meantime be sure to bid on these auctions listed below as well. SUPER WONDERFUL FANTABULOUSLY GORGEOUS THUMBPRINTED FUSION CRUSTED BEAUTY - Starting @ .99 cents http://cgi.ebay.com/Special-3851g-Huge-NWA-XXX-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-AWESOME_W0QQitemZ250260289396 1982 Gram Large NWA XXX With Fusion Crust - Good solid piece, some weathering, Will Slice nicely. http://cgi.ebay.com/1982g-HUGE-NWA-XXX-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-MOROCCO-U7-001_W0QQitemZ260250444603 1579.1 Gram Large NWA XXX with weathered crust. Nice Big Piece. http://cgi.ebay.com/1579-1g-NWA-HUGE-XXX-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-MOROCCO_W0QQitemZ250257876571 359.8 Gram NWA XXX - Nice Thumbprints On Edges. Solid Piece Will Make Very Nice Polished Slices. http://cgi.ebay.com/359-8g-NWA-XXX-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-MOROCCO-U3-070_W0QQitemZ260250165335 61.1 Gram Full Slice Of Odessa Iron - Sanded and Ready For Etch http://cgi.ebay.com/61-1g-ODESSA-IRON-METEORITE-SLICE-CUT-SANDED-PIECE_W0QQitemZ250258567865 90.7 Gram Full Slice Of Odessa Iron - Sanded and Ready For Etch http://cgi.ebay.com/90-7g-ODESSA-IRON-METEORITE-SLICE-CUT-SANDED-PIECE_W0QQitemZ260250832550 105.3 Gram NWA XXX WIth Cool Shape - Some Residual Crust - Displays Nicely http://cgi.ebay.com/105-3g-NWA-XXX-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-MOROCCO-U3-071_W0QQitemZ260250164251 We've got over 120 auctions running right now in addition to our Ebay Store deals: http://stores.ebay.com/Little-Bits-Of-Earth Keep an eye out for more this week. Happy Bidding! Good Luck! Regards, Eric Wichman MeteoritesUSA MeteoriteWatch __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Morocco Trip
Thanks for your kind words Graham and for your appreciating our show We will miss you this time. Always feel free to come any time in future, you know that you are very welcome. And in 2009 it is the 10th anniversary of the show. We foresee a great vintage. Good trip to Morocco. Some Morroccan dealers will be, as every year, in Ensisheim. But, if you can make Ste Marie the week after, many of them will be also most probably there around. At least Ali Hmani, who can give you interesting tips, has his curent tent in one of the main alleys of Ste Marie. Oh yes, while you are there, don't forget to contact also some mineral dealers from Morocco. They are well represented at Ste Marie, easy to spot and they will all be happy and proud to give you tips for a trip around their country. All my best wishes, Zelimir A 01:49 17/06/2008 +0100, ensoramanda a écrit : Many thanks to all those on the list who have already helped by giving tips about places to see on my trip around Morocco at the beginning of July. Any more are always welcome. Looking forward to it. Hope you all have a great time in Ensisheimdont think I can pull that in this year...will miss all the fun...was great last year...many thanks to Zelimir for that. Regards, Graham Ensor, UK __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
