Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news.
- Original Message - Da : Said Haddany A : meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. Data : Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:39:47 -0800 (PST) > sure that there is not much of this material available. > The price would probably go up to $8 or 10/gr at tucson > show after everybody gets certain that yes it is a new > fall and only little of it is available.. > > > Said Haddany I have heard this sound many times from Moroccan dealers: " buy buy seen few pieces its available of this meteorite ".and afer few week its arrive other kilos of this material. 8-10/gr.? If I have to go a similar price, I prefear buy a piece from the Canada fall Matteo M come Meteorite Meteoriti i...@mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.info Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Test - Please Ignore
Testimg text format. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
Maybe it's because: 1. The region is huge. Draw a line from Kansas to California to Washington to North Dakota and compare that area to the number of witnessed falls in what is loosely known as NWA. 2. There are many people around to see the falls. 3. Most places have limited background rock so recovery is easier. 4. There is a 4:3 equatorial focusing of incoming bolides. 5. In many other countries, folks are working indoors or watching Wheel of Fortune on TV instead of wheel of fate up in the sky. -Martin On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 6:31 PM, RJP wrote: > Ok Folks, > > I am curious to know why there are so many witnessed (recovered) meteorite > falls in Northwest Africa as opposed to anywhere else in the world. Is there > a good logical and/or scientifc explanation for this?.. or just a > coincidence? I understand that some "falls" simply turn out to be a case of > Nomadic lies in an attempt to liquidate (recycle) old material, but what > about the others? Perhpas it has something to do with it's geographical > location in relation to..? > And yes, I do understand these people spend countless hours outdoors, in the > desert, ect. but.. > > What are your thoughts? > > Ryan > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is so nice about meteorites
Hi Walter, What a nice post. Somehow I needed that tonight. I think I'll go get that cup of hot chocolate, grab 1 or 2 of my favorite rocks, find a good book and settle in Greg Lindh - Original Message - From: "Walter Branch" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] What is so nice about meteorites > Hello Everyone, > > You know what is so nice about meteorites? > > It's sort of ironic. > > I have enjoyed amateur astronomy for over 35 years and I have always felt > humbled when I think of the distance light has traveled uninterrupted to > reach my eyes. > > But some nights it is too cloudy to observe the stars. > > And some nights (like tonight) it is just too cold to observe the stars. > > And some nights my back won't let me lift that 65 lb scope out the door to > observe the stars. > > But on these nights, I can start a fire in the fireplace, make a nice cup > of hot chocolate, pull out some of my favorite specimens and a book or > two, > turn the lights down low and settle down with just peace and quite amidst > the flicker of the fire... > > ...and I can still observe the stars. > > Goodnight everyone. > > Pleasant dreams. > > -Walter Branch > > My thoughts tonight are for a certain list member, a friend, who has > suffered a terrible loss recently. Count your own stars while you can. > Even stars don't last forever. > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is so nice about meteorites
Excellent post, Walter -- excellent. And I am very sorry to hear about your friend... Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Walter Branch Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:41 PM To: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: [meteorite-list] What is so nice about meteorites Hello Everyone, You know what is so nice about meteorites? It's sort of ironic. I have enjoyed amateur astronomy for over 35 years and I have always felt humbled when I think of the distance light has traveled uninterrupted to reach my eyes. But some nights it is too cloudy to observe the stars. And some nights (like tonight) it is just too cold to observe the stars. And some nights my back won't let me lift that 65 lb scope out the door to observe the stars. But on these nights, I can start a fire in the fireplace, make a nice cup of hot chocolate, pull out some of my favorite specimens and a book or two, turn the lights down low and settle down with just peace and quite amidst the flicker of the fire... ...and I can still observe the stars. Goodnight everyone. Pleasant dreams. -Walter Branch My thoughts tonight are for a certain list member, a friend, who has suffered a terrible loss recently. Count your own stars while you can. Even stars don't last forever. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moroccan Infighting
Good comments Greg. This isn't too much different than what happened with some of the Russians several years ago. Trying to sell direct retail and still sell wholesale to dealers just doesn't work. Eventually, the market gets flooded and prices end up in the crapper. When the supply dries up in Morocco, all sorts of "creative marketing" will pop up. Someone has already mentioned the possibility of old unsold material being offered as new falls. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out how this is all going to play out. Best, John At 06:37 PM 1/16/2009, Greg Hupe wrote: Dear List members, We all know that most of the Moroccan meteorite traders were ambitious in obtaining new material from the nomads of the Sahara and building close partnerships with meteorite dealers from the rest of the world. In the past few years they have been destroying the typically respected wholesale/retail relationship with their partners and have been striving the go direct to the collectors to squeeze every last nickel they could get, despite the repercussions. Moroccans can not (and will not) provide the guarantee, meteorite preparation and proper classification as most "long-term" meteorite dealers do. The funny part in all of this is that while going for broke and looking past their long-term partnerships, they have managed to scare away collectors because there is no trust and confidence in what the Moroccans say or do. In part, the skepticism is accurate and some is not. One thing is true, they have lost many long-term customers, the true bounty they will one day realize and regret! Now to the funny, but sad part... In their attempts to be a one-stop shop, we have witnessed today the Moroccans fighting with each other in public, on this List! This tells me, which I predicted a year ago amongst friends, that in the bad economy (and even in a good one) the Moroccans would start to back stab each other even worse than ever to get that last nickel. I would say it has backfired! It is looking like they are losing their best long-term customers and scaring away collectors. As times continue to be economically rough, I predict we will see more of these Moroccan street fights erupt on this List and at shows. Maybe I will bring a lawn chair and a big bag of popcorn to Tucson and watch the show! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list John Gwilliam Too many people were born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] What is so nice about meteorites
Hello Everyone, You know what is so nice about meteorites? It's sort of ironic. I have enjoyed amateur astronomy for over 35 years and I have always felt humbled when I think of the distance light has traveled uninterrupted to reach my eyes. But some nights it is too cloudy to observe the stars. And some nights (like tonight) it is just too cold to observe the stars. And some nights my back won't let me lift that 65 lb scope out the door to observe the stars. But on these nights, I can start a fire in the fireplace, make a nice cup of hot chocolate, pull out some of my favorite specimens and a book or two, turn the lights down low and settle down with just peace and quite amidst the flicker of the fire... ...and I can still observe the stars. Goodnight everyone. Pleasant dreams. -Walter Branch My thoughts tonight are for a certain list member, a friend, who has suffered a terrible loss recently. Count your own stars while you can. Even stars don't last forever. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moroccan Infighting
Dear List members, We all know that most of the Moroccan meteorite traders were ambitious in obtaining new material from the nomads of the Sahara and building close partnerships with meteorite dealers from the rest of the world. In the past few years they have been destroying the typically respected wholesale/retail relationship with their partners and have been striving the go direct to the collectors to squeeze every last nickel they could get, despite the repercussions. Moroccans can not (and will not) provide the guarantee, meteorite preparation and proper classification as most "long-term" meteorite dealers do. The funny part in all of this is that while going for broke and looking past their long-term partnerships, they have managed to scare away collectors because there is no trust and confidence in what the Moroccans say or do. In part, the skepticism is accurate and some is not. One thing is true, they have lost many long-term customers, the true bounty they will one day realize and regret! Now to the funny, but sad part... In their attempts to be a one-stop shop, we have witnessed today the Moroccans fighting with each other in public, on this List! This tells me, which I predicted a year ago amongst friends, that in the bad economy (and even in a good one) the Moroccans would start to back stab each other even worse than ever to get that last nickel. I would say it has backfired! It is looking like they are losing their best long-term customers and scaring away collectors. As times continue to be economically rough, I predict we will see more of these Moroccan street fights erupt on this List and at shows. Maybe I will bring a lawn chair and a big bag of popcorn to Tucson and watch the show! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
Ok Folks, I am curious to know why there are so many witnessed (recovered) meteorite falls in Northwest Africa as opposed to anywhere else in the world. Is there a good logical and/or scientifc explanation for this?.. or just a coincidence? I understand that some "falls" simply turn out to be a case of Nomadic lies in an attempt to liquidate (recycle) old material, but what about the others? Perhpas it has something to do with it's geographical location in relation to..? And yes, I do understand these people spend countless hours outdoors, in the desert, ect. but.. What are your thoughts? Ryan __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news.
Hi Said All this may be true, but many collectors and dealers are hesitant only because of the past and rightfully so. Now it may be true that hundreds of kilos did not fall, but you can only cry "wolf" so many times before no one hears you. 8-10/g is a pipe dream my friend. I haven't seen a Moroccan fall that sold for that yet in any measurable quantity. Maybe I missed it, so please correct me if I am wrong. For the record, I have 3 Moroccan sources that I trust. Enough to wire 10s of thousands to them. Each has said that this IS a new fall, quantities are "small" (open to interpretation). I would assume that means under 40kg for Moroccans. If they are making up stories then my business will end as I do not want to do business with liars. Time will tell. Matt Morgan Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA -Original Message- From: Said Haddany Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:39:47 To: Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. Hi everybody , I was away of pc for tow days to come back and found this hot debate about this new fall in Morocco.Some people's aime is to downgrade this new fall in Morocco HOWEVER,This would make it very known over all the world and it would make a good marketing for it since there is only few kilos found.If anyone claimes that there is hundrads or several kilos he should prove it to the list and show the photos of the lot.. Few of US dealers said that thier friends in Morocco told them that there was no fall in Tichka,For those i want to say that your friends in Morocco are not able nor lucky to get any of this fall..I am also coming to Tucson show and i will prove to everybody that there was a new fall and you all will get sure that there is not much of this material available. The price would probably go up to $8 or 10/gr at tucson show after everybody gets certain that yes it is a new fall and only little of it is available.. Said Haddany --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Matthias Bärmann wrote: > From: Matthias Bärmann > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, "Abdelaziz > Alhyane" > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 12:39 PM > Of course not, Mike - we simply should be careful with our > discretions. > > And I can imagine that the experiences one makes between > dealers could be different from others. > > I personally had to do several times with Moroccans what > concerns meteorites, on different levels - buying, getting > information etc. - and all my experiences were pretty good. > > But I didn't want to - as we use to say in German - > open this well known barrel again. > > A short note only. > > Best, Matthias > > - Original Message - From: "Michael > Farmer" > To: ; > "Abdelaziz Alhyane" > ; "Matthias > Bärmann" > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:10 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > > > Matthias, > Please don't overgeneralize my statement. There are few > if any dealers on this list who when talking about METEORITE > TRADERS from Morocco, would disagree that the untruths that > come from there are not almost completely widespread. > Amazing how one iron turns into 100 in a week, yet all of > the people trying to sell to you insists that all the others > are lying and theirs is the only one available. > My statement is just that after all the BS, the truth is > very had to figure out. > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Matthias Bärmann > wrote: > > > From: Matthias Bärmann > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > > To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, "Abdelaziz > Alhyane" > > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 11:52 AM > > > Michael Famer wrote: > > > > > (...) "Moroccans are > certainly > > prone to making up lies, selling crap to anyone with > money, > > and scamming everyone". (...) > > > > > > Hm, Mike, "All Cretans are liars" > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox > > > > ??? > > > > Best, Matthias > > > >__ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >__ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news.
8 or 10$ gram? Perhaps in Morocco there is no news of the worldwide Economic collapse? Good Luck Michael farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jan 16, 2009, at 4:39 PM, Said Haddany wrote: Hi everybody , I was away of pc for tow days to come back and found this hot debate about this new fall in Morocco.Some people's aime is to downgrade this new fall in Morocco HOWEVER,This would make it very known over all the world and it would make a good marketing for it since there is only few kilos found.If anyone claimes that there is hundrads or several kilos he should prove it to the list and show the photos of the lot.. Few of US dealers said that thier friends in Morocco told them that there was no fall in Tichka,For those i want to say that your friends in Morocco are not able nor lucky to get any of this fall..I am also coming to Tucson show and i will prove to everybody that there was a new fall and you all will get sure that there is not much of this material available. The price would probably go up to $8 or 10/gr at tucson show after everybody gets certain that yes it is a new fall and only little of it is available.. Said Haddany --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Matthias Bärmann wrote: From: Matthias Bärmann Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, "Abdelaziz Alhyane" Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 12:39 PM Of course not, Mike - we simply should be careful with our discretions. And I can imagine that the experiences one makes between dealers could be different from others. I personally had to do several times with Moroccans what concerns meteorites, on different levels - buying, getting information etc. - and all my experiences were pretty good. But I didn't want to - as we use to say in German - open this well known barrel again. A short note only. Best, Matthias - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" To: ; "Abdelaziz Alhyane" ; "Matthias Bärmann" Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. Matthias, Please don't overgeneralize my statement. There are few if any dealers on this list who when talking about METEORITE TRADERS from Morocco, would disagree that the untruths that come from there are not almost completely widespread. Amazing how one iron turns into 100 in a week, yet all of the people trying to sell to you insists that all the others are lying and theirs is the only one available. My statement is just that after all the BS, the truth is very had to figure out. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Matthias Bärmann wrote: From: Matthias Bärmann Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, "Abdelaziz Alhyane" Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 11:52 AM Michael Famer wrote: (...) "Moroccans are certainly prone to making up lies, selling crap to anyone with money, and scamming everyone". (...) Hm, Mike, "All Cretans are liars" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox ??? Best, Matthias __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news.
Hi everybody , I was away of pc for tow days to come back and found this hot debate about this new fall in Morocco.Some people's aime is to downgrade this new fall in Morocco HOWEVER,This would make it very known over all the world and it would make a good marketing for it since there is only few kilos found.If anyone claimes that there is hundrads or several kilos he should prove it to the list and show the photos of the lot.. Few of US dealers said that thier friends in Morocco told them that there was no fall in Tichka,For those i want to say that your friends in Morocco are not able nor lucky to get any of this fall..I am also coming to Tucson show and i will prove to everybody that there was a new fall and you all will get sure that there is not much of this material available. The price would probably go up to $8 or 10/gr at tucson show after everybody gets certain that yes it is a new fall and only little of it is available.. Said Haddany --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Matthias Bärmann wrote: > From: Matthias Bärmann > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, "Abdelaziz > Alhyane" > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 12:39 PM > Of course not, Mike - we simply should be careful with our > discretions. > > And I can imagine that the experiences one makes between > dealers could be different from others. > > I personally had to do several times with Moroccans what > concerns meteorites, on different levels - buying, getting > information etc. - and all my experiences were pretty good. > > But I didn't want to - as we use to say in German - > open this well known barrel again. > > A short note only. > > Best, Matthias > > - Original Message - From: "Michael > Farmer" > To: ; > "Abdelaziz Alhyane" > ; "Matthias > Bärmann" > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:10 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > > > Matthias, > Please don't overgeneralize my statement. There are few > if any dealers on this list who when talking about METEORITE > TRADERS from Morocco, would disagree that the untruths that > come from there are not almost completely widespread. > Amazing how one iron turns into 100 in a week, yet all of > the people trying to sell to you insists that all the others > are lying and theirs is the only one available. > My statement is just that after all the BS, the truth is > very had to figure out. > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Matthias Bärmann > wrote: > > > From: Matthias Bärmann > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > > To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, "Abdelaziz > Alhyane" > > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 11:52 AM > > > Michael Famer wrote: > > > > > (...) "Moroccans are > certainly > > prone to making up lies, selling crap to anyone with > money, > > and scamming everyone". (...) > > > > > > Hm, Mike, "All Cretans are liars" > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox > > > > ??? > > > > Best, Matthias > > > > __ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Update: Asteroid 136849 approaching (over 1 km in diameter)
Dear List, Drat's, I was completely rained out and will be again tonight, and then it head a little too "north" for me. Did anyone see this potential hammer asteroid inchworming from Ursa Major past Arcturus and towards Corona Borealis (actually it is thought to be a non-carbonaceous stony asteroid)? There is still plenty of time for the next two or three days to see it as it fades to Pluto brightness from its current status a being visible through big binoculars or amateur scopes. The actual closest approach is on January 17 at a couple minutes past 17:00 London time. There is no chance this asteroid will hit Earth anytime soon, but is a good illustration of what is being done to track potentially Earth-threatening objects. Both the Puerto Rico's Arecibo ( http://www.naic.edu/public/the_telescope.htm ) and the Mojave Goldstone dishes ( http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/dsn/goldstone/ ) Gigantic Radio telescopes, on the NASA/NSF/UStaxpayer payroll, are dedicating serious time to it to figure out its shape, and whatever else they can glean, which while an academic question in this century, could help with strategies to deflect it if necessary at a time in the far future...Typically I think up to ten asteroids monthly (all PHA's, potentially hazardous) are within range and under RADAR study at these installations. It is also a Great time to do some spectroscopy on the relatively intense light detectable from Earth during this pass. Basically, taking spectra of the reflected light and analyzing which colors/wavelengths are strongest to get a handle on the composition. Can't wait to find out what new is learned. Hopefully Arecibo stays afloat...:-) Here are the scheduling pages to see the crunching going on for over a week of observations (as we speak errr...breathe) to see what is being done about this object that will pass 11.31 LDs (Lunar Distances) from Earth: http://echo.jpl.nasa.gov/asteroids/1998CS1/1998CS1_planning.html Regarding the distance and its associated dangers - Here is an illustration of ONE Lunar Distance: http://tinyurl.com/9vyyty This is a rather big one and events concerning asteroids this size and proximity happen at best a a few times a year in a fun year. A couple of clarifying comments, the info on this web page indicates the Japanese were the ones who discovered it first, at this place, http://www.kumakogen.jp/culture/astro/astro_e.html Well the Japanese data is two days after the Chinese data so I don't know what's the problem with the crediting of the discovery. Second it mentions that the asteroid measures 0.9 km in diameter plus/minus a FACTOR OF TWO. That puts it between 0.5 and 1.8 km in diameter - so it is very likely to be over 1 km in diameter the catastrophic arbitrary threshold many talk about. Best wishes and Great Health, Doug -Original Message- From: mexicod...@aim.com To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 5:10 pm Subject: Asteroid 136849 approaching (over 1 km in diameter) Dear Listees, Thought I'd pass along to anyone interested in seeing a typical Hammer of God asteroid (no, it is not called Kali, but it really does have a devil of an orbital period: 666 days), in the form of Chinese discovered potentially threatening asteroid (136849) 1998 CS1 (That's CS1, not CSI :)). This asteroid is likely well over 1 kilometer in diameter and will be paying us a quite "close" visit on January 17 at about 5:00PM London time, when it will be about 4.35 million kilometers away (2.7 million miles) from Earth. That's about 11 Lunar Distances (11 times the distance from the Earth to the Moon). For comparison, 4179 Toutatis, which made for a great deal of drama on 29 Sep 2004, is about twice the diameter of 136849 1998 CS1 and passed by Earth at 4 LD's. It was supposedly 10th magnitude, 5 times brighter, but was not as optimally placed to see for many of us. Due to 136849's phase, it will actually be brightest tomorrow night (sometime between 10 PM and 12:30 AM) or whenever is just before Moonrise if you are in the northern hemisphere north of at least 15 degrees latitude or so. If you are South of that you need to put up with the fairly bright Moon but can try to look at it starti ng a couple of hours after Moonrise 'til dawn. I think I'll give it a shot if conditions are ok, since it would be nice to see something this big, this close - about the same level of difficulty as Toutatis was. For me timing critical as it will barely rise 15 degrees above the horizon when the Gibbous Moonriserises a little before midnight local time. But if you are a Hamburger (Germany) or Juneauean (Alaska), you can observe for at least two hours before Moonrise preferably in thermal knickers... The predicted visual magnitude will be 12.25, well within the range of amateur telescopes. It will be moving against the starry background at about 40 arcseconds per minute wh
Re: [meteorite-list] morrocan meteorite fall
Have you been reading the posts to this list on this subject? It seems as though you have not or you would know that the Atlas Mountains are covered in snow and no one has an accurate count of the size of this fall. I guess you just felt the need to post something but had nothing to say, right? Howard Steffic > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:21:05 -0800 > From: stevenarnold60...@yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] morrocan meteorite fall > > Hello from cold chicago.I am curious.What would you say is the correct TKW of > this new fall?How about some pictures?I have yet to see any.I bet being over > in morocco right now would be alot warmer there,than here.-20 below zero this > morning.+2 right now. > > Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! > http://chicagometeorites.net/ > > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012009 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] morrocan meteorite fall
Hello from cold chicago.I am curious.What would you say is the correct TKW of this new fall?How about some pictures?I have yet to see any.I bet being over in morocco right now would be alot warmer there,than here.-20 below zero this morning.+2 right now. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/";>http://chicagometeorites.net/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites fall of morocco
Mike, I think we were talking about meteorite not about secrets, No prolblem, I have some of your secrets. List members; some people went out for huntting in high atlass mountains with lot of snow and very hard to climb, after they spent a lot of time searching for this meteorites -10° celsius, they were lucky to find some kilograms. we have to encourage them and buy from them for a reasonnable price, not setting behind our computers and telling lies in order to harm their business and make fun of them and whom purchased from them. No, none would accept that. If you are not lucky getting this material, and none accept to give a chance to make some shuts, close your mouth, and try to be positive and worh hard to build your own business. Again, I ask anybody pretends he has 100kg of this meteorite to show it up. Thank you Aid Mohamed --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites fall of morocco > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, "Aid Mohamed" > > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 8:07 PM > Aid, > Are you talking about Habibi? The problem is that from 20 > different Moroccan people, we are getting 20 different > stories. We just want to know the truth/facts about this > fall/not fall. > Aid, I have spent a ton of money with you, I remember when > you had nothing, now you have a nice new large house in > Ouarzazate and nice new Land-cruiser. That is because people > like me and Jim and Greg have been to Morocco so many times, > taught you which were good meteorites and which were not, > and bought from you almost 10 years now. We have to sell > stones too, and our customers now are scared because so many > different stories come out of Morocco. > Please tell us what the fact are about this meteorite. > > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Aid Mohamed > wrote: > > > From: Aid Mohamed > > Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites fall of morocco > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 12:09 PM > > Hello list, > > I'm Aid Mohamed, i'm here to discusse some > facts > > about the tichka meteorites. > > - the person who is trying to breake the > commercialization > > of this meteorite knows himself as bad person, nomads > do not > > sell him meteorites. if he keeps putting his noise on > what > > is not of his business, I have some facts to tell > everybody > > about him. all moroccans knows him, he does not buy, > only > > make photos of nomad's material for comissions, > > moroccans knows him very well, and they always wish if > he > > did not know what is a meteorites. he has no material > of > > this material. > > > > - Who pretends that there's ton, I ask him to show > it > > to the list.it's simple, > > thank you > > Aid Mohamed > > > > > > > > > > __ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news.
Of course not, Mike - we simply should be careful with our discretions. And I can imagine that the experiences one makes between dealers could be different from others. I personally had to do several times with Moroccans what concerns meteorites, on different levels - buying, getting information etc. - and all my experiences were pretty good. But I didn't want to - as we use to say in German - open this well known barrel again. A short note only. Best, Matthias - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" To: ; "Abdelaziz Alhyane" ; "Matthias Bärmann" Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. Matthias, Please don't overgeneralize my statement. There are few if any dealers on this list who when talking about METEORITE TRADERS from Morocco, would disagree that the untruths that come from there are not almost completely widespread. Amazing how one iron turns into 100 in a week, yet all of the people trying to sell to you insists that all the others are lying and theirs is the only one available. My statement is just that after all the BS, the truth is very had to figure out. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Matthias Bärmann wrote: From: Matthias Bärmann Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, "Abdelaziz Alhyane" Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 11:52 AM > Michael Famer wrote: > (...) "Moroccans are certainly prone to making up lies, selling crap to anyone with money, and scamming everyone". (...) Hm, Mike, "All Cretans are liars" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox ??? Best, Matthias __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news.
Matthias, Please don't overgeneralize my statement. There are few if any dealers on this list who when talking about METEORITE TRADERS from Morocco, would disagree that the untruths that come from there are not almost completely widespread. Amazing how one iron turns into 100 in a week, yet all of the people trying to sell to you insists that all the others are lying and theirs is the only one available. My statement is just that after all the BS, the truth is very had to figure out. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Matthias Bärmann wrote: > From: Matthias Bärmann > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, "Abdelaziz > Alhyane" > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 11:52 AM > > Michael Famer wrote: > > > (...) "Moroccans are certainly > prone to making up lies, selling crap to anyone with money, > and scamming everyone". (...) > > > Hm, Mike, "All Cretans are liars" > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox > > ??? > > Best, Matthias > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites fall of morocco
Aid, Are you talking about Habibi? The problem is that from 20 different Moroccan people, we are getting 20 different stories. We just want to know the truth/facts about this fall/not fall. Aid, I have spent a ton of money with you, I remember when you had nothing, now you have a nice new large house in Ouarzazate and nice new Land-cruiser. That is because people like me and Jim and Greg have been to Morocco so many times, taught you which were good meteorites and which were not, and bought from you almost 10 years now. We have to sell stones too, and our customers now are scared because so many different stories come out of Morocco. Please tell us what the fact are about this meteorite. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Aid Mohamed wrote: > From: Aid Mohamed > Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites fall of morocco > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 12:09 PM > Hello list, > I'm Aid Mohamed, i'm here to discusse some facts > about the tichka meteorites. > - the person who is trying to breake the commercialization > of this meteorite knows himself as bad person, nomads do not > sell him meteorites. if he keeps putting his noise on what > is not of his business, I have some facts to tell everybody > about him. all moroccans knows him, he does not buy, only > make photos of nomad's material for comissions, > moroccans knows him very well, and they always wish if he > did not know what is a meteorites. he has no material of > this material. > > - Who pretends that there's ton, I ask him to show it > to the list.it's simple, > thank you > Aid Mohamed > > > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] meteorites fall of morocco
Hello list, I'm Aid Mohamed, i'm here to discusse some facts about the tichka meteorites. - the person who is trying to breake the commercialization of this meteorite knows himself as bad person, nomads do not sell him meteorites. if he keeps putting his noise on what is not of his business, I have some facts to tell everybody about him. all moroccans knows him, he does not buy, only make photos of nomad's material for comissions, moroccans knows him very well, and they always wish if he did not know what is a meteorites. he has no material of this material. - Who pretends that there's ton, I ask him to show it to the list.it's simple, thank you Aid Mohamed __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news.
Michael Famer wrote: (...) "Moroccans are certainly prone to making up lies, selling crap to anyone with money, and scamming everyone". (...) Hm, Mike, "All Cretans are liars" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox ??? Best, Matthias __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] eBay Lunar Scam Artist is Back
This looks to be the same guy who was selling on ebay under the handle 'mauimag', which has gone dormant. The pictures look identical to what he was using to attempt to pass off concrete slabs as pallasite (note the nice rectangular-ish chunks in the 'breccia', this picture is the same one he tried to call a pallasite). I first asked to have some of the analysis from the so-called pallasite, and got hot air, then I offered to come up and look at his 'meteorites' and got no response. The guy is either delusional or a scammer, or maybe some of both. Anyone remember the spoof where the 'backyard archaeologist' sent in old Craftsman wrenches and Barbie heads to the AMNH, claiming they were evidence of a new prehistoric tribe? Same smell, or maybe the guy with the 3 ton Mars meteorite he was selling for his church. Just give him all the attention he's due -- none at all. I'd be more worried if he were selling bits of lava rock for $10 ea. and trying to pass them off as Oum Rockba to the uninformed. Tracy Latimer > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:32:54 -0800 > From: michael_w_gil...@yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay Lunar Scam Artist is Back > > Ok, when is this guy going to give up? > > If that is a lunar meteorite, then I have some Louisiana swampland to > sell. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270331151410 > > Can this guy be prosecuted or sued for something? > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news.
Never a total known weight comes out from NWA, where is bassi that everybody said there was a ton or so of it, the same for chergach, only a few grams available from Moroccans right now, prices going down reason is moroccans themselves, and for your info mike, you said you don't beleive it until you get the pics, so why didn't you wait for photos and tell what is true, maybe you are telling list members LIES, since you're not sure of what you say. This fall is limited because it fell in Morocco, not chergach or bassi, where you can not get the facts, but since it's here, what's availble of it, is what is offering now. Aziz --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, "Abdelaziz Alhyane" > > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 9:53 AM > Perhaps it is not true, I don't know, Moroccans are > certainly prone to making up lies, selling crap to anyone > with money, and scamming everyone. Hence, my urge of caution > to anyone wanting to buy. As a person who has spent nearly a > half million $ in Morocco, I do have my suppliers and people > I trust, and I trust most of what they say. Now, I am a > show-me type of person, I do not believe this until I see > photos or material, I still do not know if a fall occurred, > I know damn well that many Moroccans do not give a shit > about the meteorites, the business or the integrety of the > falls (for example, ensuring that pieces are seperated and > sold as what they are, not what makes more money). They want > to milk collectors out of every last Dirham. > Is this new fall real, or just the ugly broken pieces of > Chergach that no one wants to buy (hence the weathering)? > Moroccan people have done this to themselves, no one trusts > much of what they say anymore, every fall, Bensour, > Benguerir, Chergach, Oum Dreyga, Bassikounou, ALL of them > were "only a few kilos" "this is all, there > is no more" "You will be the only supplier" > "buy it now, or you wont get any" "I paid > more but will sell to you for $1.00 gram" blah blah > blah. > So, I am writing direct information that I am getting from > a somewhat trustworthy supplier of mine in Morocco. He will > be in Tucson, so you can ask him if he has some, or is it > only you Aziz? We have heard this bird chirping a few times > before. > > My customers are tired of paying $3 or $5 gram for every > new fall from NWA area and them watching the price drop to > $1 gram. Well, this can be solved, don't buy it yet > until facts and total known weight come out. > > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane > wrote: > > > From: Abdelaziz Alhyane > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > > To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 10:43 AM > > Wow, even Moroccans don't have these infos, seems > like > > the person who called you has no gram from this fall > and try > > to breake the real dealers whom really have it, and > not > > forwarding pics from nomads. > > Aziz > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Michael Farmer > > wrote: > > > > > From: Michael Farmer > > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 9:36 AM > > > I just got an interesting phone call from > Morocco. > > > It seems that this may be bigger than even the > > Moroccans > > > are saying. > > > I was told that more than one metric TON of > meteorite > > > fragments are recovered, and that apparently a > massive > > stone > > > fell in the Atlas mountains forming a crater, and > > shattering > > > the stone into thousands of fragments. Not one > > complete > > > stone found, only again MORE THAN ONE TON of > > fragments. > > > I am awaiting photos. This one could be > interesting! > > The > > > area is completely under heavy snow right now > though. > > > Michael Farmer > > > __ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news.
Perhaps it is not true, I don't know, Moroccans are certainly prone to making up lies, selling crap to anyone with money, and scamming everyone. Hence, my urge of caution to anyone wanting to buy. As a person who has spent nearly a half million $ in Morocco, I do have my suppliers and people I trust, and I trust most of what they say. Now, I am a show-me type of person, I do not believe this until I see photos or material, I still do not know if a fall occurred, I know damn well that many Moroccans do not give a shit about the meteorites, the business or the integrety of the falls (for example, ensuring that pieces are seperated and sold as what they are, not what makes more money). They want to milk collectors out of every last Dirham. Is this new fall real, or just the ugly broken pieces of Chergach that no one wants to buy (hence the weathering)? Moroccan people have done this to themselves, no one trusts much of what they say anymore, every fall, Bensour, Benguerir, Chergach, Oum Dreyga, Bassikounou, ALL of them were "only a few kilos" "this is all, there is no more" "You will be the only supplier" "buy it now, or you wont get any" "I paid more but will sell to you for $1.00 gram" blah blah blah. So, I am writing direct information that I am getting from a somewhat trustworthy supplier of mine in Morocco. He will be in Tucson, so you can ask him if he has some, or is it only you Aziz? We have heard this bird chirping a few times before. My customers are tired of paying $3 or $5 gram for every new fall from NWA area and them watching the price drop to $1 gram. Well, this can be solved, don't buy it yet until facts and total known weight come out. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane wrote: > From: Abdelaziz Alhyane > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > To: meteorite...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 10:43 AM > Wow, even Moroccans don't have these infos, seems like > the person who called you has no gram from this fall and try > to breake the real dealers whom really have it, and not > forwarding pics from nomads. > Aziz > > > --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Michael Farmer > wrote: > > > From: Michael Farmer > > Subject: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 9:36 AM > > I just got an interesting phone call from Morocco. > > It seems that this may be bigger than even the > Moroccans > > are saying. > > I was told that more than one metric TON of meteorite > > fragments are recovered, and that apparently a massive > stone > > fell in the Atlas mountains forming a crater, and > shattering > > the stone into thousands of fragments. Not one > complete > > stone found, only again MORE THAN ONE TON of > fragments. > > I am awaiting photos. This one could be interesting! > The > > area is completely under heavy snow right now though. > > Michael Farmer > > __ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news.
Wow, even Moroccans don't have these infos, seems like the person who called you has no gram from this fall and try to breake the real dealers whom really have it, and not forwarding pics from nomads. Aziz --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news. > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 9:36 AM > I just got an interesting phone call from Morocco. > It seems that this may be bigger than even the Moroccans > are saying. > I was told that more than one metric TON of meteorite > fragments are recovered, and that apparently a massive stone > fell in the Atlas mountains forming a crater, and shattering > the stone into thousands of fragments. Not one complete > stone found, only again MORE THAN ONE TON of fragments. > I am awaiting photos. This one could be interesting! The > area is completely under heavy snow right now though. > Michael Farmer > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New Moroccan fall news.
I just got an interesting phone call from Morocco. It seems that this may be bigger than even the Moroccans are saying. I was told that more than one metric TON of meteorite fragments are recovered, and that apparently a massive stone fell in the Atlas mountains forming a crater, and shattering the stone into thousands of fragments. Not one complete stone found, only again MORE THAN ONE TON of fragments. I am awaiting photos. This one could be interesting! The area is completely under heavy snow right now though. Michael Farmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Asterroids, Comets, and 536 AD
Hi Sterling - The real problem here is that we don't know the impact rate, and there has been no co-ordinated effort to try to sort impacts out of the paleo-climatological data. As there are now 6 billion people living on this planet, this is not a trivial but rather an essential research task. The real dispute between Clube and Napier vs. Morrison is on cometary injection mechanisms, and what hits. Morrison supported "Nemesis", and asteroid and comet impacts, while Clube and Napier laid all ELE to comets injected by our solar system passing through the plane of the Milky Way. I am hoping that when Griffin leaves he will take Morrison and Weiler with him. In their books, Clube and Napier argued for recent impacts with the Earth of fragments of Comet Encke; they did as well as they could, but they are atronomers, not historians or archaeologists. I tried and failed to write better books. "Man and Impact in the Americas" was intended to be a quick write-up of impacts in the Americas, and was to be followed by "Man and Impact in the Ancient Near East" and "Man and Impact in Europe". But then I realized that there was no history of the first peoples, and that most of the materials I used were generally unavailable, and "Man and Impact in the Americas" became an attempt to write that history using impacts for precise dating. Then I got hit by a stroke, so instead of the popular book I intended I ended up with hundreds of pages of small type filled with typos and not enough illustrations. That said, I am certain that the book will do well in its second edition, the corrected one with large type, no typos, more footnotes, and more illustrations. In other words, "Man and Impact in the Americas" will do well right after it finishes killing me. "2. The highest danger (and the smallest likelihood) is the first-time in-coming long-period comet, not something we could do much about, so it's useless to argue about them. In this department, our best defense is feel lucky and keep whistling." If we can find LPC early enough, then they can be diverted via Solid State Heat Capacity Lasers or stand off nuclear weapons. At a minimum, what would happen now would be uncoordinated launches of about every nuclear charge at hand. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas Subject: [meteorite-list] Asteroids, Comets, and 536 AD Hi, to all parties in the wrangle, It's been fascinating, but it's wandered a long way from 536 AD (or 534 or 537, whenever). Some points that got lost along the way: 1. We have no clear definition or concept of what exact differences there may be, if any, between "comets" and some "asteroids." We used to think that comets were majority ices but recovered cometary particles are majority silicates. There are Main Belt comets in the "Asteroid" Zone, and NEA's occasionally develop a coma. There are all the kinds of object we know about, and then there are the kinds of object we don't know about. In a word, we are still too ignorant to argue about one versus the other as if we were certain. 2. The highest danger (and the smallest likelihood) is the first-time in-coming long-period comet, not something we could do much about, so it's useless to argue about them. In this department, our best defense is feel lucky and keep whistling. 3. The original cometary hypothesis for specifically the 534-545 AD events is not for the cases that have been argued for and against, here on the list and in the academic pissing contests, but for a "swarm" of cometary objects resulting from the breakup of a larger body. This hypothesis was put forth in the 1970's by Napier and Clube, who wrote two very bad books about the mechanism they proposed. (Some scientists should not try to write "pop science" books. Good idea -- bad books.) What they proposed was that every 50,000 or 100,000 years (or million years; take your pick) some large fresh cometary body got perturbed into the inner solar system where, in its new "Apollo-like" orbit, it underwent rapid breakup from the warming and collisions, resulting in a large number of "asteroidal" and "cometary" fragments that continued the "cascade" breakup, creating a short but violent era in which the inner solar system is turned into a shooting gallery. In other words, instead of a low, steady rate of impacts, we would exposed to long peaceful eras punctuated by short stretches like the last round of the big fight in a Rocky movie. We would become accustomed for a long time to this abnormally low rate of impacts (the usual odd meteoroid) and then be terrified by a brief 100-fold increase in such events (or maybe 1000-fold). So, scribes from the "unlearned" eras with breakup swarms would draw celestial maps full of dragonoid portents and fiery signs in the skies by night and day, and the rational scholars of more peaceful times would hypothesize an orderly "clockwork" universe. (Oddly enough, just what we have in our own historic r
[meteorite-list] eBay Lunar Scam Artist is Back
Ok, when is this guy going to give up? If that is a lunar meteorite, then I have some Louisiana swampland to sell. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270331151410 Can this guy be prosecuted or sued for something? Regards and clear skies, MikeG __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Moroccan fall
Hi Again, Sorry, I have names mixed up, I meant "Amerzgane" not Boumgzare. My best Aziz --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Pelé Pierre-Marie wrote: > From: Pelé Pierre-Marie > Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW Moroccan fall > To: "MeteoriteList" > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 5:48 AM > Hello, > > that looks like a great new fall. But I found a stone > was found at Tamdaght SE of Telouet, on the road to > Ouarzazate. Does it confirm a trajectory from SW to > NE (Igherm -> Telouet) ? Were the hundreds of > kilograms found near Telouet also ? > > Pierre > > > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Moroccan fall
Hi Pierre and list, The trajectory is from Southwest to northeast Igherm => Telouet passed over " Igherm, Taliouine, Askaoune, Boumgzare" we thought first it fell at Boumgzar. those who beleive on handereds of kgs, I'm sure they missed it and will missed it as there's no hundereds. Ma best Aziz --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Pelé Pierre-Marie wrote: > From: Pelé Pierre-Marie > Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW Moroccan fall > To: "MeteoriteList" > Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 5:48 AM > Hello, > > that looks like a great new fall. But I found a stone > was found at Tamdaght SE of Telouet, on the road to > Ouarzazate. Does it confirm a trajectory from SW to > NE (Igherm -> Telouet) ? Were the hundreds of > kilograms found near Telouet also ? > > Pierre > > > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] tichka fall , fallow up
Hello Habibi and List, Interesting set of circumstances between the satellite re-entry and a new fall. I have already been offered 30 kilos from the new fall, we'll see how this goes, maybe truck loads in Tucson ;-) Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "habibi abdelaziz" To: "meteorite list" Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 6:17 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] tichka fall , fallow up hi gain some news , i just get some calls and there seems to be found in thichka hundreds of kilos and there is photo of a crater i m told,it's may be already sent some list members. so again i report to the list members what i was told by phone just now. so we will wait and see but it look like the TKW is big very big, so between the sallite passing by , and the fall found , its realy an amazing circomstances thanks again aziz habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NEW Moroccan fall
Hello, that looks like a great new fall. But I found a stone was found at Tamdaght SE of Telouet, on the road to Ouarzazate. Does it confirm a trajectory from SW to NE (Igherm -> Telouet) ? Were the hundreds of kilograms found near Telouet also ? Pierre __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NEW Moroccan fall
Hello List Members, The bright fireball seen over Taliouine travelleing from southwest to the northeast, It has been seen over Igherm, Taliouine, Askaoune, so the right direction of the meteoritic fireball, is Igherm- tichka( Telouat where it fell). http://nwameteoritesss.skyrock.com/profil/photos/78989604 I wonder if a fireball can turn left or right and take the road to pass over Marrakech to Eljadida, maybe it just come for a tourism trip and have some swim at eljadida beach then get back to the space. My best Aziz __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 16, 2009
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_16_2009.html __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] tichka fall , fallow up
hi gain some news , i just get some calls and there seems to be found in thichka hundreds of kilos and there is photo of a crater i m told,it's may be already sent some list members. so again i report to the list members what i was told by phone just now. so we will wait and see but it look like the TKW is big very big, so between the sallite passing by , and the fall found , its realy an amazing circomstances thanks again aziz habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there?/Pillinger
Hi Doug, Yes I have great respect for Dr Pillinger, and we certainly need more personalities in this area like him. A few more British mars missions (that worked) would also help with our national enthusiasm for space, but the country is practically bankrupt at the moment so I can't see us having a major UK funded mars mission anytime soon! However we are still major partners with the European space Agency, (and of course work with Nasa etc), and the UK actually has quite a large Space technology capability, mainly in the commercial/small satellite area, most of the major satellites in orbit have British technology/expertise in them, many are even built here, (I was lucky enough to see the SOHO Space mission being built/tested at Portsmouth (just down the road from) me something I will remember for a long time, an amazing machine, and it's still going). I suspect greater cooperation between the European space agency and NASA will ultimately simply have to happen if we are to make great strides in space exploration, I doubt the US will ever put men/women back on the moon or mars without multinational cooperation it would cost far too much to stomach words are easy but cash is less forthcoming, why should we all go it alone anyway? Best, Mark Ford UK -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of mexicod...@aim.com Sent: 15 January 2009 19:49 To: ensorama...@ntlworld.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Mark Ford Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there?/Pillinger Hello Graham, Thanks for the kind words on Dr. Pillinger. I am sure he has faced very difficult challenges throughout his career, considering the dependence in the UK on politicians and external agencies for the success of such forward looking endeavors. It is sad to learn about his situation with MS and I hope even The Sun is kind enough to be a little more discreet in its opportunism and spinning of yarns that tie him to their half-truthed propaganda. From the national academy of science of the UK, here were Dr. Pillinger's wishes for Christmas in 2007, in his own words: A copy of Werner von Braun's book "the Mars project". (How the rocket pioneer proposed to put humans on Mars, written the 1940/50s). I could get this Tickets to Jeff Wayne's musical "War of the Worlds" at O2 on December 22. This is based on H.G Wells book (still the best ever science fiction story) and although Wayne's is a musical he has kept the story line as HG wrote it, not transported it to USA (even though Jeff is an American). His production is getting more and more adventurous and I would love to see it. Tickets are all sold out so not much hope unless I brazenly ring up jeff wayne and invite myself. (I have met him a couple of times and interviewed him for THES). Now comes the real wishful thinking. I would like the UK government to commit to a real involvement in manned space activities starting20with a return to the moon to create a permanent base. I was involved in the Apollo programme and know just how much it inspired the World. I had always believed the UK would be amongst the first on the Moon (see book Journey into Space by Charles Chilton). The Nasa administrator, Mike Griffin, is here in UK at the moment seeking UK to join NASA in a full partnership. He said at a meeting last night he wants a full partnership not UK to turn up in 2020 saying they would now like a British astronaut on a flight. In my dreams we commit now to sharing in this adventure and it goes ahead in time for Michael Foale (i.e. someone with joint UK/US citizenship) is first Commander of the permanent base on the Moon. If I can only have only one present I'll have the last one. NB Even I am not so unrealistic as to believe asking the UK government to pay for a Beagle 3 would get me anywhere except committed to an Institution for the insane. Best health, Doug -Original Message- From: ensorama...@ntlworld.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; mexicod...@aim.com; mark.f...@ssl.gb.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 1:15 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there?/Pillinger Hi All, The Sun has always had a reputation for twisting the truth like thisbut as for Colin Pillinger. I have met him several times and he is dedicated to inspiring youngsters to g et involved with space and science...his early work involved the first studies of Allende in those early days. He has a knack of turning around the negative publicity and quirky press coverage that the press generates in his/science's favour, exploiting it in his own way to promote public understanding. Last time I saw him he invited me down to PSSRI to look around the latest projects and see their new equipment for probing the latest space rocks and Stardust material , etc and was promoting his latest book "Space is a Fun
[meteorite-list] the new fall and the big fireball/ satellite pasing at the same time.
hi list the fireball seen by all Morocco that i sad it's over 4 km have an explanation, a satellite debris was passing at the same time to crash , that was the 21 of December, the Moroccans hunter says its the 20 December when there was a fall in journal al massaa. so i get from a doctor scientist in meteorite this information. http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/3201301964/ Object Description: Type: Delta II Stage 2 Rocket Body Int'l Designation: 2008 054B Launched: 25 OCT 2008 @ 02:28 UTC Site: Vandenberg Air Force Base SLC-2W Mission: COSMO 3 Reentry Prediction: Predicted Reentry Time: 21 DEC 2008 @ 19:32 UTC ± 65 minutes Prediction Epoch: 21 DEC 2008 @ 15:12:57.533 UTC Prediction Ground Track: http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/3201301964/ __ so what we have heard in the beach of agadir and eljadida is a satellite and what was found in tichka come from a fall/find, back to other news this meteorite preliminary analysis is h4/5 an it's very fresh and doesn't look like any fall i have seen. so like i sad before i will wait for analysis and i had refuse to sell it before as i was waiting for more information but coming to other fact that the hunter sad that they can make photo of the crater and the place where it has been found, this may be explain why its weathered.so we need a team at tichka to confirm the crater and to make a datation with witnesses. so far i m confused , but i report the fact of what i have heard or read. so till now i confirm nothing the same a before. thanks aziz habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
