Re: [meteorite-list] fireball video from space

[André Knöfel]

Hello Mike,

I think these are so called 'red sprites'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xVThAFfP0E&hl=de

Regards

André


- original Nachricht 

Betreff: [meteorite-list] fireball video from space
Gesendet: Do, 27. Aug 2009
Von: Mike Hankey

> A friend sent me this video of a fireball video taken from the space
> shuttle or the ISS
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/baltimore-pa-meteor/bolide-meteor-video-from
> -space/
> 
> I'm not sure if this has been sent out to the list before.
> 
> What do you think? Is it real? It was posted on a UFO account / as a
> UFO video so its suspect in that regard.
> __
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 

--- original Nachricht Ende 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[Erik Fisler]

That's a extremely dramatic.  Of course all of that happens every day but you 
leave out
the vast majority of the population in the country! 
Exaggerating doesn't prove points. 
Im not telling to to stop living your life as a petrified man
looking around every corner.
I'm telling you it's not fair to anyone who reads this thread
to be reading blunt exaggerations.
You make it sound as if because I haven't been wronged by someone
in the past month that I'm freakishly lucky.

Sensible people in rural areas put up cheap fences
and no trespassing signs in the rest of the U.S.

Unless this lady assumes that all persons are carrying land status
maps and anyone on her land MUST know that they are trespassing!

Oh don't forget about senility!!!
Senile old lady...

If she is lacking in the security department because she is a poor old lady who 
lives
alone she should be living with family or a retirement home!

I love how she pressed charges after she found out they weren't stealing any of 
her prized possessions.

Read Aesop's The Dog and the Manger.

I'm glad someone had the fortitude to get those meteorites off that lady's land.

[Erik]


> From: cyna...@charter.net
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:22:42 -0500
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information
> 
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:20:47 EDT, you wrote:
> 
>>land, I would run out of ammo.  Crossing someone's land that is not fenced  
>>and 
>>posted is not that big of a deal in a civilized culture.
> 
> The point I was wanting to make, and I'll drop this issue-- is that we do NOT
> live in a civilized culture.  We live in a culture where every day of the week
> people are murdered for their pocket change, or for fun.  We live in a culture
> where meth-heads come on to your land and steal everything that isn't nailed
> down (then steal the things that are nailed down, like power lines, and 
> ripping
> apart air conditioners for copper) for a cheap fix.  We live in a culture 
> where
> people face home invasions, where the home-owners are tied up, beaten, 
> tortured,
> and often killed for whatever small amount of money can be extracted from 
> them.
> We live in a culture were guns are cheap, easily avaialible, and there are
> people who place no value on human life.
> 
> This happened a couple of counties away from me not long ago:
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?q=serial%20killer%20gaffney&hl=en&ned=us&tab=nw
> 
> So, no, being concerned about strange men wandering around on your land isn't
> crackpottery-- it is realism.
> __
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> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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[meteorite-list] fireball video from space

[Phil Whitmer]

Mike,

I have no idea what the heck that thing is!

It's weird, because I was just sitting here watching the NASA UFO videos on 
YouTube when you posted this. (Along with some vids of Carl Sagan 
rhapsodizing wistfully about how many advanced civilizations there are in 
the Milky Way.)



Phil Whitmer 


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[meteorite-list] fireball video from space

[Mike Hankey]

A friend sent me this video of a fireball video taken from the space
shuttle or the ISS

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/baltimore-pa-meteor/bolide-meteor-video-from-space/

I'm not sure if this has been sent out to the list before.

What do you think? Is it real? It was posted on a UFO account / as a
UFO video so its suspect in that regard.
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[meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" the Series

[Notkin]

Dear Listees:

As a few of your already know, from our Twitter announcements and  
Facebook page, Steve Arnold and I recently received exciting news from  
our network. The "Meteorite Men" pilot was a success, received very  
good ratings and feedback (thank you viewers!) and Science Channel has  
ordered a series. Two additional documentary producers have joined the  
original pilot team, and the new series will air in 2010. You'll  
excuse us if we keep the details of where we're going and what we'll  
be doing to ourselves for the moment  : )


My esteemed editors at TucsonCitizen.com have encouraged me to keep a  
"making-of" diary that will give readers a behind-the-scenes look at  
how the show is created. For now, I'll be doing occasional diary  
posts, with more regular entries while we are filming. I was rather  
flattered that yesterday's TV diary entry became a featured story on  
the front page of TucsonCitizen.com today:


http://tucsoncitizen.com

(please give the animated stories a couple of seconds to run through)


The direct link to the ongoing TV diary is here:

http://tucsoncitizen.com/lizard/category/meteorite-men-tv-diary/


If you'd like to receive the most up-to-date info about the show,  
please join us on Twitter:


http://twitter.com/meteoritemen


Steve and I would like to thank everyone who has given us friendship,  
support, and encouragement along the way. You know who you are. As we  
continue to work on the new series, we'll do our very best to show the  
meteorite community in a good light.



Respectfully,

Geoff N.

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com
www.meteoriteblog.org

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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[Mr EMan]

Bill  the woman was elderly and just a few weeks before had been broken in on, 
robbed and possibly beaten as I recall from early accounts.  Had this the 
trespassing happened before this robbery She would have likely offered them ice 
tea.

I agree it was a vote getting ploy for the judge and the DA.  The charges and 
bond far exceeded what would have happened in any case where local deer hunters 
walk across anothers land during hunting season.

Elton


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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[Bill Mason]

Dear Fellow members,   Today in the United States we have a group of people
who are so insecure and so stupid that they do not have the ability to think
beyond their own  have little worldme,me,me is the limit of their scope
of existence.  Consider the source, when being
Accused - you'd find this woman probably totally miserable.   The judge who
ruled by rule of law - no rational thinking on his part - no understanding
only unimaginative condemnation.  We are in trouble-when emotion wins over
rational thinking.

Bill Mason  "rusting"  





 
-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Anita
Westlake
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:12 PM
To: cyna...@charter.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

Hi Darren:
  I think this woman was a nut-job b /c she over-reacted to trepassing.
Makes me think she had a still or something else she was hiding!
  Sure, I don't want people trespassing on my property, but to take it to
court seems a little extreme to me. What I  would have done, had it been me,
would  be to say: "Cool! Let me know if you find anything!"
  I realize that not all people think like me. 'Tis a pity.
Anita



- Original Message 
From: Darren Garrison 
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:48:51 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:20:47 EDT, you wrote:

>You must be joking!  It's not like they were breaking into her  house.
>

My "home" includes my land.  If you are on my land, you are "in my house."

>I own 700+ acres in Idaho and if I took a shot at someone every  time there

>were dirt bikers, snowmobilers, horse riders, hikers or hunters on my  
>land, I would run out of ammo.  Crossing someone's land that is not fenced 
and 
>posted is not that big of a deal in a civilized culture.
> 

There is a difference between "crossing" and "wandering around on."  And
there
is a difference between having hundreds of acres of open land and having a
few
acres that you live in, alone, elderly, and with a history of armed poachers
on
your land.  Staying the holy hell off of someone else's personal property
also
should not be a problem in a civilized culture.

>Don't make them out to be bad people or unprofesional.  They were just  
>unlucky enough to cross a nut jobs path!

I don't make them out to be bad people-- just wrong.  And this woman is NOT
a
nut job.  She was 100% within her rights.  I don't know this woman, but I'm
personally offended at her being characterized as a crackpot-- she was
RIGHT,
the collectors were WRONG.  

Some people think that their homes and their land are a personal refuge from
the
outside world where you can relax, live as you want, and BE SAFE.  You have
no
way of knowing what the intentions of any trespasser are-- they could be
harmless, and they could be out to rob or kill you-- and at the very least,
they
are disturbing your privacy.  The burden is NOT on the home owner to prove
that
a trespasser is harmless before treating them like they are a danger.  If a
total stranger is found wandering on my property, the logical, sane, and
self-preserving thing to do is be on my guard and assume that they are a
risk
until THEY prove that they are not.

I used to wish a meteorite would fall on my property-- but after joining
this
list, I no longer wish that.  People with the attitude of being able to go
wherever they damn well please without permission and people with attitudes
like
Steve Arnold's, where he bragged about using hard-sell tactics to try to
badger
land owners into letting him search their lands make me hope like hell that
a
meteorite never lands anywhere near me.
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[meteorite-list] Meteorite News Site repaired

[drtanuki]

Dear List,
  Thank you to those that emailed me to tell the Latest Worldwide 
Meteor/Meteorite News website was not loading properly.  The problem has been 
fixed and it takes less than a second now for the page to load.

AZ Meteorite Video:

http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/

Dirk
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Re: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

[Meteorites USA]

Martin, Thanks!

I couldn't ask for a better review. I appreciate it.

3 ads? That's wonderful... Now, go post more ads... ;)

More ads mean more buyers!

Regards,
Eric


Martin Altmann wrote:

Hi list,

I was also very sceptic in the beginning about that spacifieds-thing.
But for testing, I tried to post an ad - and the handling, it is easy as a
pie.
Just some fields in a form, a text, photos no matter how small or large,
press the button, ready.
No 800,000 different options like in ebay, where nobody knows, where they
should be good for, no endless choices of design, style, templates,
no ebay bafflegab, no accounts, no formatting troubles, no paypal-terrorism,
no spam and no secret knowledge of the typist guild necessary.

And no auctions, no reverse auctions, no Dutch auctions, no 100 pieces left
auctions, no
is-an-auctions-but-if-I-get-an-offer-it-is-no-auction-anymore-but-gone-aucti
ons, no startprice-auctions - no pressure of time,

but the ingenious concept, that the people simply say, what they want for
their stones!!

BEST IS, you don't have to register, if you buy there!

No obligations, just simply study the offers, and if you are interested in a
piece, use the form to send a message to the offerer.

No hundred clicks until you're finally at your destination, much faster than
ebay and other lists of classifieds.


So as frightened we all are about Eric's sometimes brash impetus to invent
in meteoritics everything completely new  ;-)
I can't say it else, as this time he made it really, really good!


Yah, Tweets, Twitter, Blogs, Feeds and deeds...  don't worry,
we old people all don't have any idea, what that should be good for,
IMPORTANT is: you don't have to know how such stuff is working
and you don't have to care for it at all, when you're reading the
classifieds or when you post an ad - that thing makes all automatically.

Hence very comfort.


So I think, that spacified definitely deserves a try, has all preconditions
to get a nice marketplace for meteorites.

So take a look and give that spacified.com a chance,
that it won't die like so many other new attempts.

You'll find now, in the beginning already some good and some very good
specimens there (3 are from me) - check it out!

Martin






-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
Meteorites USA
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2009 23:23
An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

Hi guys, Just a quick email to say thanks for over 2000 Hits!

Spacifieds.com -
Over - 2400 Hits In Less than 48 hrs
Over - 400+ unique visitors have either posted ads or visited
46 Total Ads Posted

Not too shabby for a brand new site... Thanks Guys!

Spacifieds.com is Free to post your items for sale of trade
Auto Tweet: Automatically posts all ad listings to the "Official" 
Spacifieds.com Twitter page LIVE! For FREE!
ReTweet Button - In ALL ad listing. Allows visitors and you to retweet 
any ad posting!

You can even Retweet your own ad listing directly to Twitter!

Free Meteorite Contest: Get the most views on your ad listing and get 
this meteorite:

http://www.spacifieds.com/meteorites/free-meteorite-contest-post-ads-win-det
ails/

UPDATE - Current CONTEST Leader: Pictorial Catalogue On One Hundred 
Indian Meteorites (1999) (99 views)
Posting a link to this would be unfair, so I'll let you check it out if 
you want to see it.


Ebay Links: YES! You are allowed to post your individual Ebay Auction 
links or links to your Ebay store in your ad listings.


Dealers: YES! you can include links directly to your Spacifieds ad 
listings in your emails and advertisements just like you do with your 
Ebay auctions. The links are search engine friendly too, meaning Google 
likes them. And there's no symbols or nonsense that could cause broken 
links.


BlogRoll Link: Free Blogroll link to your astronomy or meteorite related 
website just for posting 10 ads or more. This link is visible to 
visitors on EVERY page of the site.


Premium Featured AD Space: Top Of Every Page! I've added 18 spots! 50x50 
pixel banner ads at the top of the site. These ads display on EVERY page 
of the site!


There's really a lot more but you have to join to find out.
http://www.spacifieds.com

What are you waiting for.

Thanks everyone, for all your help, advice, and feedback, maybe this 
could actually turn into something useful for the meteorite and 
astronomy community.


I know you can use it, and hope you like it!

Also I just wanted to say, Spacifieds is not limited to meteorites. If 
you're an amateur or professional astronomer, astronomy buff, or 
scientist you're more than welcome to post your astronomy related 
classified free. Trade items and Wanted ad listings are welcome too. Got 
an old collection of Astronomy magazines you want to sell? Space related 
comics? How about an old telescope, or collectible lithograph

Re: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

[Meteorites USA]

Hi Anita,

Thank you! That means a lot to me...

I will keep on...

You all can count on that. ;)

Regards,
Eric



Anita Westlake wrote:

Hi Eric:
  I wish I could accept your emails, but they still seem like spam to me. I appreciate what you're doing for the community; I really do. I just don't have time for it. 
  Keep on keeping on,

Anita



- Original Message 
From: Meteorites USA 
To: Bob Loeffler 
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

Hey Bob, Anita, List,

Thanks for the plug for Spacifieds! I appreciate it. ;)

Also, Thank you very much for the kind words on what I'm doing Bob. I'm trying 
against all odds, and fighting upstream and uphill, but it seems to be working. 
We'll see.

I don't know about you, but I would certainly like better to read about 
something that is contributing to the meteorite and astronomy world and 
community as a whole, rather than the negative posts that's been posted of 
late. Not to get into anything heavy, but I've written LONG emails that I have 
not posted to the list concerning this issue. Rather than post more negative 
content, I wanted to actually contribute something instead. Something for 
everyone to use and enjoy.

To sum it up. If they can post their negative stuff without consequences so can 
I! Simple as that. Sorry if that sounds petty or harsh or like a double 
standard but sometimes the truth hurts. If Art would like to suspend or take 
action against me for it then that is his prerogative, and he needs to take 
action against EVERYONE else that has broken the rules. If this thread turns 
into something else I will post ALL my long emails which I chose not to post, 
and I will subside into the realm of the lurkers. For now...

Anita I appreciate your honesty and bluntness, I apologize for causing you any 
grief or making you feel that you needed to block my emails. There was NO 
disrespect meant.

But I CANNOT nor will I apologize for my posts. Period. No offense, and no 
disrespect intended to anyone. (hopefully someone will forward this to her if 
she still has my email blocked.)

Before anyone judges me, my posts or my sites, I'd like you to think back about 
the last month or two and the posts to the list, and you'll be forced to agree 
that my posts, are NOTHING compared to the libelous, and flaming attacks that 
EVERYONE has had to deal with.

I would rather keep it light, and positive in nature.

I created the Spacifieds.com for everyone, and that's why I've "announced" it and given 
you guys "updates" to garner the excitement that it will take to launch this site into a 
successful platform for both the meteorite and astronomy communities.

I don't have to make it, I don't have to offer free ads, I don't have to give 
away free links to dealer sites, I don't have to pay the fees it costs me to 
run the site, I don't have to spend the time designing it, I don't have to 
spend countless hours building and marketing it, I don't have to build sites 
for other people on list, I don't have to help people with their advertising in 
this down economy, I don't have to do anything concerning this list.

I do it because I genuinely want to, and because I want to contribute something 
to the community! NOT solely to make money or sell ad space.

I ask everyone, honestly which is worse? My so called "ads" or the vitriol 
that's been spewed forth on this list the last couple months! If you can answer that 
honestly I want to here from you.

By the way, take a look at my new site and take part.  Don't just complain 
about my posts. Have any of you actually gone to the site and tried it?

You should... It is after all made for you guys!

Thanks everyone!

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
Spacifieds.com



Bob Loeffler wrote:
  

Oh my god, Eric!  Enough!  Please.  I know you are trying to provide a
much-needed service to everyone, but you said a few days ago that your posts
are not Ads, yet they really are.  They are more annoying than most other
peoples' ads and you are trying to pull more and more people to see your
websites, so in effect, THEY ARE ADS.  Did Billy Mays reincarnate himself in
your body???  :-)  Even if YOU are not selling meteorite specimens on your
Spacifieds.com website, and the service that you are making available is
free to others, it is still an advertisement because ads don't have to
result in direct sales; you are drumming up visits to your websites where
you are trying to rent ad space on your websites ("P.S. I still have 5
(125x125 pixel) ad spots available on the Meteorites USA home page. $99 year
or $150 for both Meteorites USA and MeteoriteBlog.com..."), so that's
obviously an ad. You are sending out one or two of these "updates" every
day.  Only ONE per week, please.  Maybe at the end of the week you can tell
us about all of the new features or new websites in ONE e-mail.

BTW, I don't have a problem with yo

Re: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

[Anita Westlake]

Hi Eric:
  I wish I could accept your emails, but they still seem like spam to me. I 
appreciate what you're doing for the community; I really do. I just don't have 
time for it. 
  Keep on keeping on,
Anita



- Original Message 
From: Meteorites USA 
To: Bob Loeffler 
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

Hey Bob, Anita, List,

Thanks for the plug for Spacifieds! I appreciate it. ;)

Also, Thank you very much for the kind words on what I'm doing Bob. I'm trying 
against all odds, and fighting upstream and uphill, but it seems to be working. 
We'll see.

I don't know about you, but I would certainly like better to read about 
something that is contributing to the meteorite and astronomy world and 
community as a whole, rather than the negative posts that's been posted of 
late. Not to get into anything heavy, but I've written LONG emails that I have 
not posted to the list concerning this issue. Rather than post more negative 
content, I wanted to actually contribute something instead. Something for 
everyone to use and enjoy.

To sum it up. If they can post their negative stuff without consequences so can 
I! Simple as that. Sorry if that sounds petty or harsh or like a double 
standard but sometimes the truth hurts. If Art would like to suspend or take 
action against me for it then that is his prerogative, and he needs to take 
action against EVERYONE else that has broken the rules. If this thread turns 
into something else I will post ALL my long emails which I chose not to post, 
and I will subside into the realm of the lurkers. For now...

Anita I appreciate your honesty and bluntness, I apologize for causing you any 
grief or making you feel that you needed to block my emails. There was NO 
disrespect meant.

But I CANNOT nor will I apologize for my posts. Period. No offense, and no 
disrespect intended to anyone. (hopefully someone will forward this to her if 
she still has my email blocked.)

Before anyone judges me, my posts or my sites, I'd like you to think back about 
the last month or two and the posts to the list, and you'll be forced to agree 
that my posts, are NOTHING compared to the libelous, and flaming attacks that 
EVERYONE has had to deal with.

I would rather keep it light, and positive in nature.

I created the Spacifieds.com for everyone, and that's why I've "announced" it 
and given you guys "updates" to garner the excitement that it will take to 
launch this site into a successful platform for both the meteorite and 
astronomy communities.

I don't have to make it, I don't have to offer free ads, I don't have to give 
away free links to dealer sites, I don't have to pay the fees it costs me to 
run the site, I don't have to spend the time designing it, I don't have to 
spend countless hours building and marketing it, I don't have to build sites 
for other people on list, I don't have to help people with their advertising in 
this down economy, I don't have to do anything concerning this list.

I do it because I genuinely want to, and because I want to contribute something 
to the community! NOT solely to make money or sell ad space.

I ask everyone, honestly which is worse? My so called "ads" or the vitriol 
that's been spewed forth on this list the last couple months! If you can answer 
that honestly I want to here from you.

By the way, take a look at my new site and take part.  Don't just complain 
about my posts. Have any of you actually gone to the site and tried it?

You should... It is after all made for you guys!

Thanks everyone!

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
Spacifieds.com



Bob Loeffler wrote:
> Oh my god, Eric!  Enough!  Please.  I know you are trying to provide a
> much-needed service to everyone, but you said a few days ago that your posts
> are not Ads, yet they really are.  They are more annoying than most other
> peoples' ads and you are trying to pull more and more people to see your
> websites, so in effect, THEY ARE ADS.  Did Billy Mays reincarnate himself in
> your body???  :-)  Even if YOU are not selling meteorite specimens on your
> Spacifieds.com website, and the service that you are making available is
> free to others, it is still an advertisement because ads don't have to
> result in direct sales; you are drumming up visits to your websites where
> you are trying to rent ad space on your websites ("P.S. I still have 5
> (125x125 pixel) ad spots available on the Meteorites USA home page. $99 year
> or $150 for both Meteorites USA and MeteoriteBlog.com..."), so that's
> obviously an ad. You are sending out one or two of these "updates" every
> day.  Only ONE per week, please.  Maybe at the end of the week you can tell
> us about all of the new features or new websites in ONE e-mail.
> 
> BTW, I don't have a problem with your website or content; I actually like
> what you are doing.  It's the announcements/ads that are breaking t

Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[Darren Garrison]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:20:47 EDT, you wrote:

>land, I would run out of ammo.  Crossing someone's land that is not fenced  
>and 
>posted is not that big of a deal in a civilized culture.

The point I was wanting to make, and I'll drop this issue-- is that we do NOT
live in a civilized culture.  We live in a culture where every day of the week
people are murdered for their pocket change, or for fun.  We live in a culture
where meth-heads come on to your land and steal everything that isn't nailed
down (then steal the things that are nailed down, like power lines, and ripping
apart air conditioners for copper) for a cheap fix.  We live in a culture where
people face home invasions, where the home-owners are tied up, beaten, tortured,
and often killed for whatever small amount of money can be extracted from them.
We live in a culture were guns are cheap, easily avaialible, and there are
people who place no value on human life.

This happened a couple of counties away from me not long ago:

http://www.google.com/search?q=serial%20killer%20gaffney&hl=en&ned=us&tab=nw

So, no, being concerned about strange men wandering around on your land isn't
crackpottery-- it is realism.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[Anita Westlake]

Hi Darren:
  I think this woman was a nut-job b /c she over-reacted to trepassing. Makes 
me think she had a still or something else she was hiding!
  Sure, I don't want people trespassing on my property, but to take it to court 
seems a little extreme to me. What I  would have done, had it been me, would  
be to say: "Cool! Let me know if you find anything!"
  I realize that not all people think like me. 'Tis a pity.
Anita



- Original Message 
From: Darren Garrison 
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:48:51 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:20:47 EDT, you wrote:

>You must be joking!  It's not like they were breaking into her  house.
>

My "home" includes my land.  If you are on my land, you are "in my house."

>I own 700+ acres in Idaho and if I took a shot at someone every  time there 
>were dirt bikers, snowmobilers, horse riders, hikers or hunters on my  
>land, I would run out of ammo.  Crossing someone's land that is not fenced  
>and 
>posted is not that big of a deal in a civilized culture.
> 

There is a difference between "crossing" and "wandering around on."  And there
is a difference between having hundreds of acres of open land and having a few
acres that you live in, alone, elderly, and with a history of armed poachers on
your land.  Staying the holy hell off of someone else's personal property also
should not be a problem in a civilized culture.

>Don't make them out to be bad people or unprofesional.  They were just  
>unlucky enough to cross a nut jobs path!

I don't make them out to be bad people-- just wrong.  And this woman is NOT a
nut job.  She was 100% within her rights.  I don't know this woman, but I'm
personally offended at her being characterized as a crackpot-- she was RIGHT,
the collectors were WRONG.  

Some people think that their homes and their land are a personal refuge from the
outside world where you can relax, live as you want, and BE SAFE.  You have no
way of knowing what the intentions of any trespasser are-- they could be
harmless, and they could be out to rob or kill you-- and at the very least, they
are disturbing your privacy.  The burden is NOT on the home owner to prove that
a trespasser is harmless before treating them like they are a danger.  If a
total stranger is found wandering on my property, the logical, sane, and
self-preserving thing to do is be on my guard and assume that they are a risk
until THEY prove that they are not.

I used to wish a meteorite would fall on my property-- but after joining this
list, I no longer wish that.  People with the attitude of being able to go
wherever they damn well please without permission and people with attitudes like
Steve Arnold's, where he bragged about using hard-sell tactics to try to badger
land owners into letting him search their lands make me hope like hell that a
meteorite never lands anywhere near me.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

[Meteorites USA]

Hey Bob, Anita, List,

Thanks for the plug for Spacifieds! I appreciate it. ;)

Also, Thank you very much for the kind words on what I'm doing Bob. I'm 
trying against all odds, and fighting upstream and uphill, but it seems 
to be working. We'll see.


I don't know about you, but I would certainly like better to read about 
something that is contributing to the meteorite and astronomy world and 
community as a whole, rather than the negative posts that's been posted 
of late. Not to get into anything heavy, but I've written LONG emails 
that I have not posted to the list concerning this issue. Rather than 
post more negative content, I wanted to actually contribute something 
instead. Something for everyone to use and enjoy.


To sum it up. If they can post their negative stuff without consequences 
so can I! Simple as that. Sorry if that sounds petty or harsh or like a 
double standard but sometimes the truth hurts. If Art would like to 
suspend or take action against me for it then that is his prerogative, 
and he needs to take action against EVERYONE else that has broken the 
rules. If this thread turns into something else I will post ALL my long 
emails which I chose not to post, and I will subside into the realm of 
the lurkers. For now...


Anita I appreciate your honesty and bluntness, I apologize for causing 
you any grief or making you feel that you needed to block my emails. 
There was NO disrespect meant.


But I CANNOT nor will I apologize for my posts. Period. No offense, and 
no disrespect intended to anyone. (hopefully someone will forward this 
to her if she still has my email blocked.)


Before anyone judges me, my posts or my sites, I'd like you to think 
back about the last month or two and the posts to the list, and you'll 
be forced to agree that my posts, are NOTHING compared to the libelous, 
and flaming attacks that EVERYONE has had to deal with.


I would rather keep it light, and positive in nature.

I created the Spacifieds.com for everyone, and that's why I've 
"announced" it and given you guys "updates" to garner the excitement 
that it will take to launch this site into a successful platform for 
both the meteorite and astronomy communities.


I don't have to make it, I don't have to offer free ads, I don't have to 
give away free links to dealer sites, I don't have to pay the fees it 
costs me to run the site, I don't have to spend the time designing it, I 
don't have to spend countless hours building and marketing it, I don't 
have to build sites for other people on list, I don't have to help 
people with their advertising in this down economy, I don't have to do 
anything concerning this list.


I do it because I genuinely want to, and because I want to contribute 
something to the community! NOT solely to make money or sell ad space.


I ask everyone, honestly which is worse? My so called "ads" or the 
vitriol that's been spewed forth on this list the last couple months! If 
you can answer that honestly I want to here from you.


By the way, take a look at my new site and take part.  Don't just 
complain about my posts. Have any of you actually gone to the site and 
tried it?


You should... It is after all made for you guys!

Thanks everyone!

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
Spacifieds.com



Bob Loeffler wrote:

Oh my god, Eric!  Enough!  Please.  I know you are trying to provide a
much-needed service to everyone, but you said a few days ago that your posts
are not Ads, yet they really are.  They are more annoying than most other
peoples' ads and you are trying to pull more and more people to see your
websites, so in effect, THEY ARE ADS.  Did Billy Mays reincarnate himself in
your body???  :-)  Even if YOU are not selling meteorite specimens on your
Spacifieds.com website, and the service that you are making available is
free to others, it is still an advertisement because ads don't have to
result in direct sales; you are drumming up visits to your websites where
you are trying to rent ad space on your websites ("P.S. I still have 5
(125x125 pixel) ad spots available on the Meteorites USA home page. $99 year
or $150 for both Meteorites USA and MeteoriteBlog.com..."), so that's
obviously an ad. You are sending out one or two of these "updates" every
day.  Only ONE per week, please.  Maybe at the end of the week you can tell
us about all of the new features or new websites in ONE e-mail.

BTW, I don't have a problem with your website or content; I actually like
what you are doing.  It's the announcements/ads that are breaking the rules.
Maybe I'm wrong... and if I am, I'm sure a few people will tell me.  :-)

Thanks,

Bob


-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites
USA
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:23 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

Hi guys, Just a quick email to say thanks for ove

Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[Notkin]

Anita posted:

Some of us are downright friendly and are just eat-up with Southern  
hospitality!


Isn't that the truth! My brother used to live in Macon and I've had  
many a fine time in lovely Georgia.




Cheers,

Geoff N.

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com
www.meteoriteblog.org
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[Anita Westlake]

No, I'm not joking. Nut jobs are nut jobs, not matter where you live.  This 
woman truly had  "some issues". Most of us in Georgia, do not act like that.  
We'd just as soon invite you for tea as get riled up about a foot-bridge. And, 
regardless what you've heard about "Deliverance",  we don't usally rape 
strangers!. (We save that for kinfolk!)  Wait a minute: I don't think I'm 
helping my cause. Let me drink some more moonshine and get back with you!
Anita



- Original Message 
From: "starsandsco...@aol.com" 
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:20:47 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

You must be joking!  It's not like they were breaking into her  house.

I own 700+ acres in Idaho and if I took a shot at someone every  time there 
were dirt bikers, snowmobilers, horse riders, hikers or hunters on my  
land, I would run out of ammo.  Crossing someone's land that is not fenced  and 
posted is not that big of a deal in a civilized culture.

Don't make them out to be bad people or unprofesional.  They were just  
unlucky enough to cross a nut jobs path!

Tom

In a message dated 8/26/2009 6:06:00 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
cyna...@charter.net writes:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:32:52 -0700 (PDT), you  wrote:

>Please don't judge all Georgians by one crack-pot!  

Just because you don't like people tresspassing on your land does not  make 
you a
crackpot.  Judging from the details in that article (details  that I hadn't 
seen
before) the two hunters were absoutely, without question,  100% wrong, and 
were
very lucky that they didn't end up in morgue drawers  instead of jail 
cells.  And
there would not be a jury in the state of  Georga that would convict an old 
woman
for shooting two strange men found on  her land-- it probably wouldn't even 
reach
Grand  Jury.
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[meteorite-list] AZ meteorite find video

[drtanuki]

Dear List,
  There is a new video of the Meteorite Hunter, Mike Farmer, on YOuTube.  
The video can be watched at this website:
http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/

Congrats Mike on your professionally made video and documentation. And what a 
great find!

Best Regards, Dirk...Tokyo


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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[Dave Gheesling]

The vast majority are indeed that friendly, Anita, as you certainly know
first-hand.  But while we certainly do have a few crackpots in Georgia, it
does not appear that this lady is one...

Dave
www.fallingrocks.com 

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Anita
Westlake
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 7:33 PM
To: cdtuc...@cox.net; drtanuki; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

Please don't judge all Georgians by one crack-pot! Some of us are downright
friendly and are just eat-up with Southern hospitality!
Anita



- Original Message 
From: "cdtuc...@cox.net" 
To: drtanuki ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:20:56 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

OMG,
That's amazing. You are all  welcome to hunt in Arizona anytime you'd like.
We might be a bit friendlier here. . Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
IMCA 5829
Meteoritemax


 drtanuki  wrote: 
> Meteorite hunters banished from Burke
> By Elizabeth Billips lizbill...@yahoo.com
> 
> The two meteorite hunters caught trespassing in Burke County won't be
coming back.
> 
> They've been banished.
> 
> In state court last Wednesday morning, Las Vegas meteorite hunter Ralph
"Sonny" Clary Jr., 49, and ...
> 
> http://www.thetruecitizen.com/news/2009/0408/for_the_record/032.html
> __
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> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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[meteorite-list] meteorites for sal (AD)

[steve arnold]

Hello list.I have a few meteorites forsale if interested.And please off 
list.There will also be free shipping as well anywhere in the cosmos.At least 
here.
___
1.sikote-alin  76.5 grams w/2 holes   hupe collection 
card $275
2.nwa 482 (lunar)  .164 gram part 
slice    $450
3.3 small unclassified stone 
individuals  $ 25
4.3 small oriented sikote-alin 
buttons    $300
5.nwa 788   36 gram 
endcut    
$75
6.130 gram unclassified stone fully crusted with bottom 2ndary crust    
$90
7.nwa 5477   L3 type   22 gram 
endcut   $175
 Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


  
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[Anita Westlake]

Thanks, Geoff. I'd like to bestow upon you the title of True Southern 
Gentleman. My people come from southern England (Plymouth) and I can recognize 
a true gentleman when I see one. I apologize, in my best southern accent, for 
temporarily being off-topic.
Anita 



- Original Message 
From: Notkin 
To: Anita Westlake 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 7:51:08 PM
Subject: Re: Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

> Some of us are downright friendly and are just eat-up with Southern 
> hospitality!

Isn't that the truth! My brother used to live in Macon and I've had many a fine 
time in lovely Georgia.


Cheers,

Geoff

*
Geoffrey Notkin
Aerolite Meteorites
P.O. Box 36652
Tucson, AZ 85740, USA

(888) SKY ROXX
(520) 742 
i...@aerolite.org

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com
www.meteoriteblog.org
www.tucsoncitizen.com/lizard
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[Darren Garrison]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:20:47 EDT, you wrote:

>You must be joking!  It's not like they were breaking into her  house.
>

My "home" includes my land.  If you are on my land, you are "in my house."

>I own 700+ acres in Idaho and if I took a shot at someone every  time there 
>were dirt bikers, snowmobilers, horse riders, hikers or hunters on my  
>land, I would run out of ammo.  Crossing someone's land that is not fenced  
>and 
>posted is not that big of a deal in a civilized culture.
> 

There is a difference between "crossing" and "wandering around on."  And there
is a difference between having hundreds of acres of open land and having a few
acres that you live in, alone, elderly, and with a history of armed poachers on
your land.  Staying the holy hell off of someone else's personal property also
should not be a problem in a civilized culture.

>Don't make them out to be bad people or unprofesional.  They were just  
>unlucky enough to cross a nut jobs path!

I don't make them out to be bad people-- just wrong.  And this woman is NOT a
nut job.  She was 100% within her rights.  I don't know this woman, but I'm
personally offended at her being characterized as a crackpot-- she was RIGHT,
the collectors were WRONG.  

Some people think that their homes and their land are a personal refuge from the
outside world where you can relax, live as you want, and BE SAFE.  You have no
way of knowing what the intentions of any trespasser are-- they could be
harmless, and they could be out to rob or kill you-- and at the very least, they
are disturbing your privacy.  The burden is NOT on the home owner to prove that
a trespasser is harmless before treating them like they are a danger.  If a
total stranger is found wandering on my property, the logical, sane, and
self-preserving thing to do is be on my guard and assume that they are a risk
until THEY prove that they are not.

I used to wish a meteorite would fall on my property-- but after joining this
list, I no longer wish that.  People with the attitude of being able to go
wherever they damn well please without permission and people with attitudes like
Steve Arnold's, where he bragged about using hard-sell tactics to try to badger
land owners into letting him search their lands make me hope like hell that a
meteorite never lands anywhere near me.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

[Anita Westlake]

Hi Bob and List:
   I agree. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to say this. I have had 
to BLOCK Eric's emails for weeks now. Enough is quite enough.. Eric has abused 
his privileges and this list. Play nice or I have nothing more to say to you.
Anita



- Original Message 
From: Bob Loeffler 
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 7:04:13 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

Oh my god, Eric!  Enough!  Please.  I know you are trying to provide a
much-needed service to everyone, but you said a few days ago that your posts
are not Ads, yet they really are.  They are more annoying than most other
peoples' ads and you are trying to pull more and more people to see your
websites, so in effect, THEY ARE ADS.  Did Billy Mays reincarnate himself in
your body???  :-)  Even if YOU are not selling meteorite specimens on your
Spacifieds.com website, and the service that you are making available is
free to others, it is still an advertisement because ads don't have to
result in direct sales; you are drumming up visits to your websites where
you are trying to rent ad space on your websites ("P.S. I still have 5
(125x125 pixel) ad spots available on the Meteorites USA home page. $99 year
or $150 for both Meteorites USA and MeteoriteBlog.com..."), so that's
obviously an ad. You are sending out one or two of these "updates" every
day.  Only ONE per week, please.  Maybe at the end of the week you can tell
us about all of the new features or new websites in ONE e-mail.

BTW, I don't have a problem with your website or content; I actually like
what you are doing.  It's the announcements/ads that are breaking the rules.
Maybe I'm wrong... and if I am, I'm sure a few people will tell me.  :-)

Thanks,

Bob


-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites
USA
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:23 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

Hi guys, Just a quick email to say thanks for over 2000 Hits!

Spacifieds.com -
Over - 2400 Hits In Less than 48 hrs
Over - 400+ unique visitors have either posted ads or visited
46 Total Ads Posted

Not too shabby for a brand new site... Thanks Guys!

Spacifieds.com is Free to post your items for sale of trade
Auto Tweet: Automatically posts all ad listings to the "Official" 
Spacifieds.com Twitter page LIVE! For FREE!
ReTweet Button - In ALL ad listing. Allows visitors and you to retweet 
any ad posting!
You can even Retweet your own ad listing directly to Twitter!

Free Meteorite Contest: Get the most views on your ad listing and get 
this meteorite:
http://www.spacifieds.com/meteorites/free-meteorite-contest-post-ads-win-det
ails/

UPDATE - Current CONTEST Leader: Pictorial Catalogue On One Hundred 
Indian Meteorites (1999) (99 views)
Posting a link to this would be unfair, so I'll let you check it out if 
you want to see it.

Ebay Links: YES! You are allowed to post your individual Ebay Auction 
links or links to your Ebay store in your ad listings.

Dealers: YES! you can include links directly to your Spacifieds ad 
listings in your emails and advertisements just like you do with your 
Ebay auctions. The links are search engine friendly too, meaning Google 
likes them. And there's no symbols or nonsense that could cause broken 
links.

BlogRoll Link: Free Blogroll link to your astronomy or meteorite related 
website just for posting 10 ads or more. This link is visible to 
visitors on EVERY page of the site.

Premium Featured AD Space: Top Of Every Page! I've added 18 spots! 50x50 
pixel banner ads at the top of the site. These ads display on EVERY page 
of the site!

There's really a lot more but you have to join to find out.
http://www.spacifieds.com

What are you waiting for.

Thanks everyone, for all your help, advice, and feedback, maybe this 
could actually turn into something useful for the meteorite and 
astronomy community.

I know you can use it, and hope you like it!

Also I just wanted to say, Spacifieds is not limited to meteorites. If 
you're an amateur or professional astronomer, astronomy buff, or 
scientist you're more than welcome to post your astronomy related 
classified free. Trade items and Wanted ad listings are welcome too. Got 
an old collection of Astronomy magazines you want to sell? Space related 
comics? How about an old telescope, or collectible lithograph? Maybe you 
have a digital camera, or some other electronic device. Scientific 
equipment is also welcome. Microscopes, scales, testing equipment, lab 
equipment. Basically anything related to astronomy can be listed for 
free. Buy, Sell, Trade, and Wanted listings.

Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
Spacifieds.com

P.S. I still have 5 (125x125 pixel) ad spots available on the Meteorites 
USA home page. $99 year or $150 for both Meteorites USA and 
Meteo

[meteorite-list] Newly Listed Auctions Started - AD

[Greg Hupe]

Dear List Members,

It has a been a couple months since I loaded any eBay auctions, so with 
"Back to School" for the students and an "End of Summer" for many 
collectors, I loaded up about 34 nice 'Meteorite' items tonight by seller, 
NaturesVault. Most are started at just 99 cents, you bidders can name your 
own price (bid high or low, it's up to you!). If you bid as quick as the 
'Speed of Light', you may be able to win the auctions so 'Alien' bidders 
don't get what you are after! ;-)


There was a thread about holes in meteorites last week so in the spirit of 
That thread, one of the auctions is for a complete slice of a classified 
eucrite with a natural hole! You will find many Lunar and Martian meteorites 
and plenty of achondrites as well!


All of my current auctions can be found by clicking here: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault


Thank you for bidding!!

Best regards,
Greg


Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault





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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[STARSANDSCOPES]

You must be joking!  It's not like they were breaking into her  house.

I own 700+ acres in Idaho and if I took a shot at someone every  time there 
were dirt bikers, snowmobilers, horse riders, hikers or hunters on my  
land, I would run out of ammo.  Crossing someone's land that is not fenced  and 
posted is not that big of a deal in a civilized culture.
 
Don't make them out to be bad people or unprofesional.  They were just  
unlucky enough to cross a nut jobs path!

Tom

In a message dated 8/26/2009 6:06:00 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
cyna...@charter.net writes:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:32:52 -0700 (PDT), you  wrote:

>Please don't judge all Georgians by one crack-pot!  

Just because you don't like people tresspassing on your land does not  make 
you a
crackpot.  Judging from the details in that article (details  that I hadn't 
seen
before) the two hunters were absoutely, without question,  100% wrong, and 
were
very lucky that they didn't end up in morgue drawers  instead of jail 
cells.  And
there would not be a jury in the state of  Georga that would convict an old 
woman
for shooting two strange men found on  her land-- it probably wouldn't even 
reach
Grand  Jury.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[Darren Garrison]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:32:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Please don't judge all Georgians by one crack-pot! 

Just because you don't like people tresspassing on your land does not make you a
crackpot.  Judging from the details in that article (details that I hadn't seen
before) the two hunters were absoutely, without question, 100% wrong, and were
very lucky that they didn't end up in morgue drawers instead of jail cells.  And
there would not be a jury in the state of Georga that would convict an old woman
for shooting two strange men found on her land-- it probably wouldn't even reach
Grand Jury.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[Anita Westlake]

Please don't judge all Georgians by one crack-pot! Some of us are downright 
friendly and are just eat-up with Southern hospitality!
Anita



- Original Message 
From: "cdtuc...@cox.net" 
To: drtanuki ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:20:56 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

OMG, 
That's amazing. You are all  welcome to hunt in Arizona anytime you'd like. We 
might be a bit friendlier here. . Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
IMCA 5829
Meteoritemax


 drtanuki  wrote: 
> Meteorite hunters banished from Burke
> By Elizabeth Billips lizbill...@yahoo.com
> 
> The two meteorite hunters caught trespassing in Burke County won't be coming 
> back.
> 
> They've been banished.
> 
> In state court last Wednesday morning, Las Vegas meteorite hunter Ralph 
> "Sonny" Clary Jr., 49, and ...
> 
> http://www.thetruecitizen.com/news/2009/0408/for_the_record/032.html
> __
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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Re: [meteorite-list] ENOUGH Speed-of-light question

[Bob Loeffler]

Hi Mike H. and all,

Even if some of the people on the list are interested, that doesn't mean
that it should be allowed.  If it's not on-topic, it is still breaking the
list rule because it's not about meteorites, meteors, etc.  The Alien and
matrix discussions were also not on topic.  If we allow this to go on, then
everyone can post their own off-topic messages and we'll have a
free-for-all.  Let's try to keep everything somewhat related to meteorites.
Otherwise, I'll start talking about my house or my Jeep or my cats (because
they are all on the Earth... and meteorites hit the Earth... therefore they
must be on-topic, right?).  And then we'll have the Haiku poets come out of
the woodwork... argh.  :-)

Thanks,

Bob



-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Hankey
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:55 PM
To: Michael Blood
Cc: Meteorite List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ENOUGH Speed-of-light question

i hear ya, and agree about being on topic, but there seems to be a
good bit of interest in this topic, so i'd say let it roll...? you can
tell from the subject what its related to, so you can easily delete
the emails without reading them if you're not interested. its kind of
fun / enjoyable for me to follow along, if it was off list, i would
miss a lot of these replies, i think this is in the same category as
the alien discussion and matrix discussions... not really meteor
related, but interesting none the less. I think volume of replies
often suggests a good topic people are interested in. I'm also eagerly
awaiting Rob's answer.

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/jack-knows-best.j
pg

Mike Hankey,

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Michael Blood wrote:
> Please guys,
>        This is not exactly hard core meteorite related.
>        A few posts - ok  - hell, a dozen posts, ok. But this
> On and on and on and on is enough already!
>        Can those few of you obsessed with this take it off
> The list, please?
>        ( could be wrong - if there are dozens of List members
> Who want to see this stay on the list, go ahead and post to
> The list and in the subject line put "KEEP the SOL Q
> Going"
>        Not to be a bummer - Michael
>
>
> On 8/26/09 10:35 AM, "Darren Garrison"  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:49:01 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, so what's the speed of dark?
>>>
>>
>> "The speed of dark is known to be greater than that of light. It must be,
>> otherwise the dark wouldn¹t be able to get out of the light¹s way."
>>
>> http://freespace.virgin.net/ianstewart.joat/MATHDW/light.html
>> __
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> __
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

[Darren Garrison]

One more post on this-- I remembered that way back at the dawn of time (okay,
the dawn of the 1990s) in my college English 101 class, I did a paper on fast
interstellar travel.  I haven't looked at it in years, as I avoid looking at
most of my early writings for the fear of it being cringe-worthy bad.  This one
doesn't look TOO bad, though-- don't be too hard on past 18/19 year old me.  I
can't find the works cited section, but here's the body of the text, with some
relevance to this topic (if off topic for the list in general).


(quoted fossil document)



 Popular science fiction productions such as Star Wars, Star Trek, and Dr.
Who portray traveling from star to star to be commonplace and even trivial, with
large ships, the equivalent of luxury liners, traveling interstellar distances
in a matter of hours.  Traveling to another star seems simpler than crossing an
ocean in the times of Columbus.  In reality, the laws of physics show that fast
interstellar travel will be very difficult, if not impossible, to accomplish.
 According to Carl Sagan, an astronomer at Cornell University, "Fast
interstellar space flight with ship velocity approaching the speed of light, is
an objective not for a hundred years but for a thousand or ten thousand" (Sagan
203).  Another scientist states "although casual observers of the space travel
scene may view starflight as only a modest step beyond trips to the planets in
our solar system, it will in fact be inordinately more difficult" (Woodcock 39).
He continues by explaining that the farthest man has yet traveled, our moon, is
400,000 Km away.  The nearest star, on the other hand, is 40,000,000,000,000 Km
away.  In a scale model of the solar system between the Earth and the moon being
1 cm, the distance to the The fastest traveling spacecraft to date, Pioneer 10,
Had a top speed of 51,800 kph and a final cruising speed of 40,000 kph (Darling
99).  At this speed, it would take over 100,000 years to travel to the nearest
star. Clearly this is not fast.  To get to its destination in a reasonable
amount of time, the ship's speed must be increased drastically.
 This increase in speed runs into both physical and engineering problems.
Unlike classical Newtonian physics, which says that an increase in force applied
to an object will result in an equal increase in speed, Einstein's equations
show that as an object's speed increases, so does its mass, so that even more
force has to be applied to increase its speed by the same amount.  and more so
that near the speed of light most energy applied goes to an increase in mass and
almost none to increase in speed (Asimov 207).  What this means from a practical
standpoint is 
that to travel faster will require much more fuel to be carried.What type of
fuel will be used?  According to one scientist "for interstellar travel,
chemical propulsion rockets are woefully inadequate; other technologies must be
brought into play" (Darling 95).  Chemical rockets burn a very large amount of
fuel to produce a relatively small amount of energy.  Even other technologies,
none of which have been developed, do not look very promising.
 Many different technologies have been proposed, all of which have flaws and
none of which will be easy to develop and maintain.  Fission rockets would
circulate  a liquid, such as liquid hydrogen, through  a fission reactor.  The
liquid would be heated into a gas and thrust out the back of the ship.  This is
one of the simplest technologies; but will  provide too little thrust  for fast
interstellar travel.  Another idea is the ion rocket, which accelerates the
charged particles produced by a fission reaction through an electric field.
With an exhaust speed of around 50 kph, this is still too slow.  Ion rockets
with exhaust speeds of up to 1000 kph might be possible, but to accelerate to 10
percent of the speed of light would take a mass ratio of 10 trillion to 1,
meaning that 10 billion metric tons of fuel would be needed for every kilogram
of payload.  Fusion rockets are manageable, with exhaust speeds of up to 10,000
kph.  Accelerating to 10 percent of the speed of light would take only 20
kilograms of fuel for each kilogram of payload.  This is only to accelerate,
however.  The ship must also slow down when it reaches the destination, and the
fuel that is used to slow down must be accelerated along with it.  That means to
reach  the destination would take 20 squared or 400 kilograms of fuel for each
kilogram of payload.  Square this again for the trip back to Earth, and it takes
80 metric tons  of propellant for each kilogram of payload that returns
to Earth (Darling 96).  Even matter-antimatter, the most efficient fuel
possible, would take 100 kilograms of fuel for every kilogram of payload on a
round trip at 98 percent of the speed of light (Asimov 231-6).
 Even if the problems with sheer mass of fuel to be used are overcome, there
are still problems to be dealt with.  According to one scien

Re: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

[Bob Loeffler]

Oh my god, Eric!  Enough!  Please.  I know you are trying to provide a
much-needed service to everyone, but you said a few days ago that your posts
are not Ads, yet they really are.  They are more annoying than most other
peoples' ads and you are trying to pull more and more people to see your
websites, so in effect, THEY ARE ADS.  Did Billy Mays reincarnate himself in
your body???  :-)  Even if YOU are not selling meteorite specimens on your
Spacifieds.com website, and the service that you are making available is
free to others, it is still an advertisement because ads don't have to
result in direct sales; you are drumming up visits to your websites where
you are trying to rent ad space on your websites ("P.S. I still have 5
(125x125 pixel) ad spots available on the Meteorites USA home page. $99 year
or $150 for both Meteorites USA and MeteoriteBlog.com..."), so that's
obviously an ad. You are sending out one or two of these "updates" every
day.  Only ONE per week, please.  Maybe at the end of the week you can tell
us about all of the new features or new websites in ONE e-mail.

BTW, I don't have a problem with your website or content; I actually like
what you are doing.  It's the announcements/ads that are breaking the rules.
Maybe I'm wrong... and if I am, I'm sure a few people will tell me.  :-)

Thanks,

Bob


-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites
USA
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:23 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

Hi guys, Just a quick email to say thanks for over 2000 Hits!

Spacifieds.com -
Over - 2400 Hits In Less than 48 hrs
Over - 400+ unique visitors have either posted ads or visited
46 Total Ads Posted

Not too shabby for a brand new site... Thanks Guys!

Spacifieds.com is Free to post your items for sale of trade
Auto Tweet: Automatically posts all ad listings to the "Official" 
Spacifieds.com Twitter page LIVE! For FREE!
ReTweet Button - In ALL ad listing. Allows visitors and you to retweet 
any ad posting!
You can even Retweet your own ad listing directly to Twitter!

Free Meteorite Contest: Get the most views on your ad listing and get 
this meteorite:
http://www.spacifieds.com/meteorites/free-meteorite-contest-post-ads-win-det
ails/

UPDATE - Current CONTEST Leader: Pictorial Catalogue On One Hundred 
Indian Meteorites (1999) (99 views)
Posting a link to this would be unfair, so I'll let you check it out if 
you want to see it.

Ebay Links: YES! You are allowed to post your individual Ebay Auction 
links or links to your Ebay store in your ad listings.

Dealers: YES! you can include links directly to your Spacifieds ad 
listings in your emails and advertisements just like you do with your 
Ebay auctions. The links are search engine friendly too, meaning Google 
likes them. And there's no symbols or nonsense that could cause broken 
links.

BlogRoll Link: Free Blogroll link to your astronomy or meteorite related 
website just for posting 10 ads or more. This link is visible to 
visitors on EVERY page of the site.

Premium Featured AD Space: Top Of Every Page! I've added 18 spots! 50x50 
pixel banner ads at the top of the site. These ads display on EVERY page 
of the site!

There's really a lot more but you have to join to find out.
http://www.spacifieds.com

What are you waiting for.

Thanks everyone, for all your help, advice, and feedback, maybe this 
could actually turn into something useful for the meteorite and 
astronomy community.

I know you can use it, and hope you like it!

Also I just wanted to say, Spacifieds is not limited to meteorites. If 
you're an amateur or professional astronomer, astronomy buff, or 
scientist you're more than welcome to post your astronomy related 
classified free. Trade items and Wanted ad listings are welcome too. Got 
an old collection of Astronomy magazines you want to sell? Space related 
comics? How about an old telescope, or collectible lithograph? Maybe you 
have a digital camera, or some other electronic device. Scientific 
equipment is also welcome. Microscopes, scales, testing equipment, lab 
equipment. Basically anything related to astronomy can be listed for 
free. Buy, Sell, Trade, and Wanted listings.

Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
Spacifieds.com

P.S. I still have 5 (125x125 pixel) ad spots available on the Meteorites 
USA home page. $99 year or $150 for both Meteorites USA and 
MeteoriteBlog.com http://www.meteoritesusa.com/ads.htm


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htt

Re: [meteorite-list] ENOUGH

[Michael Blood]

Not once.
Michael
PS: Standard question: "where do meteorites come from?" (in said
Misspoken grammar).


On 8/26/09 2:27 PM, "Martin Altmann"  wrote:

> But Captain, it is!
> 
> Remember how often you are asked, whether there are meteorites from other
> galaxies !
> 
> Skol
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Michael
> Blood
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2009 23:09
> An: cyna...@charter.net; Meteorite List
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] ENOUGH Speed-of-light question
> 
> Please guys,
> This is not exactly hard core meteorite related.
> A few posts - ok  - hell, a dozen posts, ok. But this
> On and on and on and on is enough already!
> Can those few of you obsessed with this take it off
> The list, please?
> ( could be wrong - if there are dozens of List members
> Who want to see this stay on the list, go ahead and post to
> The list and in the subject line put "KEEP the SOL Q
> Going"
> Not to be a bummer - Michael
> 
> 
> On 8/26/09 10:35 AM, "Darren Garrison"  wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:49:01 -0400, you wrote:
>> 
>>> Ok, so what's the speed of dark?
>>> 
>> 
>> "The speed of dark is known to be greater than that of light. It must be,
>> otherwise the dark wouldn¹t be able to get out of the light¹s way."
>> 
>> http://freespace.virgin.net/ianstewart.joat/MATHDW/light.html
>> __
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> __
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] (no subject)

[Darren Garrison]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:46:33 -0700, you wrote:

>I had never heard of Charlier universes, looks like an applicable
>framework, I will read more about it, thanks!

Oh, that theory lies beween the two extremes, the Charlie universe and the
Charliest universe.  Sort of like the strong and weak anthropic principles.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

[Galactic Stone & Ironworks]

I'm still trying to get one of my ads to post properly.  I keep
getting error messages.  But I agree that it looks promising. :)


On 8/26/09, Martin Altmann  wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> I was also very sceptic in the beginning about that spacifieds-thing.
> But for testing, I tried to post an ad - and the handling, it is easy as a
> pie.
> Just some fields in a form, a text, photos no matter how small or large,
> press the button, ready.
> No 800,000 different options like in ebay, where nobody knows, where they
> should be good for, no endless choices of design, style, templates,
> no ebay bafflegab, no accounts, no formatting troubles, no paypal-terrorism,
> no spam and no secret knowledge of the typist guild necessary.
>
> And no auctions, no reverse auctions, no Dutch auctions, no 100 pieces left
> auctions, no
> is-an-auctions-but-if-I-get-an-offer-it-is-no-auction-anymore-but-gone-aucti
> ons, no startprice-auctions - no pressure of time,
>
> but the ingenious concept, that the people simply say, what they want for
> their stones!!
>
> BEST IS, you don't have to register, if you buy there!
>
> No obligations, just simply study the offers, and if you are interested in a
> piece, use the form to send a message to the offerer.
>
> No hundred clicks until you're finally at your destination, much faster than
> ebay and other lists of classifieds.
>
>
> So as frightened we all are about Eric's sometimes brash impetus to invent
> in meteoritics everything completely new  ;-)
> I can't say it else, as this time he made it really, really good!
>
>
> Yah, Tweets, Twitter, Blogs, Feeds and deeds...  don't worry,
> we old people all don't have any idea, what that should be good for,
> IMPORTANT is: you don't have to know how such stuff is working
> and you don't have to care for it at all, when you're reading the
> classifieds or when you post an ad - that thing makes all automatically.
>
> Hence very comfort.
>
>
> So I think, that spacified definitely deserves a try, has all preconditions
> to get a nice marketplace for meteorites.
>
> So take a look and give that spacified.com a chance,
> that it won't die like so many other new attempts.
>
> You'll find now, in the beginning already some good and some very good
> specimens there (3 are from me) - check it out!
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
> Meteorites USA
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2009 23:23
> An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update
>
> Hi guys, Just a quick email to say thanks for over 2000 Hits!
>
> Spacifieds.com -
> Over - 2400 Hits In Less than 48 hrs
> Over - 400+ unique visitors have either posted ads or visited
> 46 Total Ads Posted
>
> Not too shabby for a brand new site... Thanks Guys!
>
> Spacifieds.com is Free to post your items for sale of trade
> Auto Tweet: Automatically posts all ad listings to the "Official"
> Spacifieds.com Twitter page LIVE! For FREE!
> ReTweet Button - In ALL ad listing. Allows visitors and you to retweet
> any ad posting!
> You can even Retweet your own ad listing directly to Twitter!
>
> Free Meteorite Contest: Get the most views on your ad listing and get
> this meteorite:
> http://www.spacifieds.com/meteorites/free-meteorite-contest-post-ads-win-det
> ails/
>
> UPDATE - Current CONTEST Leader: Pictorial Catalogue On One Hundred
> Indian Meteorites (1999) (99 views)
> Posting a link to this would be unfair, so I'll let you check it out if
> you want to see it.
>
> Ebay Links: YES! You are allowed to post your individual Ebay Auction
> links or links to your Ebay store in your ad listings.
>
> Dealers: YES! you can include links directly to your Spacifieds ad
> listings in your emails and advertisements just like you do with your
> Ebay auctions. The links are search engine friendly too, meaning Google
> likes them. And there's no symbols or nonsense that could cause broken
> links.
>
> BlogRoll Link: Free Blogroll link to your astronomy or meteorite related
> website just for posting 10 ads or more. This link is visible to
> visitors on EVERY page of the site.
>
> Premium Featured AD Space: Top Of Every Page! I've added 18 spots! 50x50
> pixel banner ads at the top of the site. These ads display on EVERY page
> of the site!
>
> There's really a lot more but you have to join to find out.
> http://www.spacifieds.com
>
> What are you waiting for.
>
> Thanks everyone, for all your help, advice, and feedback, maybe this
> could actually turn into something useful for the meteorite and
> astronomy community.
>
> I know you can use it, and hope you like it!
>
> Also I just wanted to say, Spacifieds is not limited to meteorites. If
> you're an amateur or professional astronomer, astronomy buff, or
> scientist you're more than welcome to post your astronomy related
> classified free. Trade items and Wanted ad listings 

Re: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

[Martin Altmann]

Hi list,

I was also very sceptic in the beginning about that spacifieds-thing.
But for testing, I tried to post an ad - and the handling, it is easy as a
pie.
Just some fields in a form, a text, photos no matter how small or large,
press the button, ready.
No 800,000 different options like in ebay, where nobody knows, where they
should be good for, no endless choices of design, style, templates,
no ebay bafflegab, no accounts, no formatting troubles, no paypal-terrorism,
no spam and no secret knowledge of the typist guild necessary.

And no auctions, no reverse auctions, no Dutch auctions, no 100 pieces left
auctions, no
is-an-auctions-but-if-I-get-an-offer-it-is-no-auction-anymore-but-gone-aucti
ons, no startprice-auctions - no pressure of time,

but the ingenious concept, that the people simply say, what they want for
their stones!!

BEST IS, you don't have to register, if you buy there!

No obligations, just simply study the offers, and if you are interested in a
piece, use the form to send a message to the offerer.

No hundred clicks until you're finally at your destination, much faster than
ebay and other lists of classifieds.


So as frightened we all are about Eric's sometimes brash impetus to invent
in meteoritics everything completely new  ;-)
I can't say it else, as this time he made it really, really good!


Yah, Tweets, Twitter, Blogs, Feeds and deeds...  don't worry,
we old people all don't have any idea, what that should be good for,
IMPORTANT is: you don't have to know how such stuff is working
and you don't have to care for it at all, when you're reading the
classifieds or when you post an ad - that thing makes all automatically.

Hence very comfort.


So I think, that spacified definitely deserves a try, has all preconditions
to get a nice marketplace for meteorites.

So take a look and give that spacified.com a chance,
that it won't die like so many other new attempts.

You'll find now, in the beginning already some good and some very good
specimens there (3 are from me) - check it out!

Martin






-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
Meteorites USA
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2009 23:23
An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

Hi guys, Just a quick email to say thanks for over 2000 Hits!

Spacifieds.com -
Over - 2400 Hits In Less than 48 hrs
Over - 400+ unique visitors have either posted ads or visited
46 Total Ads Posted

Not too shabby for a brand new site... Thanks Guys!

Spacifieds.com is Free to post your items for sale of trade
Auto Tweet: Automatically posts all ad listings to the "Official" 
Spacifieds.com Twitter page LIVE! For FREE!
ReTweet Button - In ALL ad listing. Allows visitors and you to retweet 
any ad posting!
You can even Retweet your own ad listing directly to Twitter!

Free Meteorite Contest: Get the most views on your ad listing and get 
this meteorite:
http://www.spacifieds.com/meteorites/free-meteorite-contest-post-ads-win-det
ails/

UPDATE - Current CONTEST Leader: Pictorial Catalogue On One Hundred 
Indian Meteorites (1999) (99 views)
Posting a link to this would be unfair, so I'll let you check it out if 
you want to see it.

Ebay Links: YES! You are allowed to post your individual Ebay Auction 
links or links to your Ebay store in your ad listings.

Dealers: YES! you can include links directly to your Spacifieds ad 
listings in your emails and advertisements just like you do with your 
Ebay auctions. The links are search engine friendly too, meaning Google 
likes them. And there's no symbols or nonsense that could cause broken 
links.

BlogRoll Link: Free Blogroll link to your astronomy or meteorite related 
website just for posting 10 ads or more. This link is visible to 
visitors on EVERY page of the site.

Premium Featured AD Space: Top Of Every Page! I've added 18 spots! 50x50 
pixel banner ads at the top of the site. These ads display on EVERY page 
of the site!

There's really a lot more but you have to join to find out.
http://www.spacifieds.com

What are you waiting for.

Thanks everyone, for all your help, advice, and feedback, maybe this 
could actually turn into something useful for the meteorite and 
astronomy community.

I know you can use it, and hope you like it!

Also I just wanted to say, Spacifieds is not limited to meteorites. If 
you're an amateur or professional astronomer, astronomy buff, or 
scientist you're more than welcome to post your astronomy related 
classified free. Trade items and Wanted ad listings are welcome too. Got 
an old collection of Astronomy magazines you want to sell? Space related 
comics? How about an old telescope, or collectible lithograph? Maybe you 
have a digital camera, or some other electronic device. Scientific 
equipment is also welcome. Microscopes, scales, testing equipment, lab 
equipment. Basically anything related to astronomy

Re: [meteorite-list] (no subject)

[Dan Brumleve]

Sterling,

The solution I had in mind is the Newtonian one (curiously the value
is related to the probability of a random integer being divisible by a
square).  But I don't agree that an infinite number of anything is
necessarily nonsensical...  In this case (an infinite line of planets
with one end), the force is finite everywhere and never much larger
than 1G.  (Alternatively, if we were on the edge of an infinite
half-space packed with planets, the force would be infinite and the
situation much less reasonable, essentially as you described.)

I had never heard of Charlier universes, looks like an applicable
framework, I will read more about it, thanks!

Dan

On 8/26/09, Sterling K. Webb  wrote:
> Hi, Dan, Rob, List,
>
> The key weasel-word in that puzzle is "infinite."
> An infinite number of anything, no matter how
> small, even neutrons, has infinite mass and hence
> exerts infinite gravitational force.
>
> Your infinite stack of Earths will collapsr at the
> speed of light, having wrapped all space and time
> around itself. You are a string of particles stretched
> out over light years, with the tip of your nose pressed
> against the event horizon at the speed of light where
> you feel infinite force, but you are not moving because
> time is standing still for you, and you will stay that
> way forever... in your inertial frame.
>
> The Newtonian solution is simple. Using the central
> force assumption of Newtonian gravitation (hey! works
> for me!), the gravity you feel is the sum of an infinite series:
> 1 + (1/3)^2 + (1/5)^2 + (1/7)^2 + (1/9)^2 + (1/11)^2 +
> (1/13)^2 + (1/15)^2 + (1/17)^2 + (1/19)^2 + ... =
> 1.208722 G's! (approximately, OK?)
>
> Your problem is that your Earths are too close together.
> There is a cosmological solution that allows an infinite
> static universe with infinite mass to have a finite and low
> mass density. They're called Charlier universes, but I
> never met one. They're awfully empty...
>
> Experiment is the key to all knowledge. You stack up
> an infinite number of Earths, then time falling objects
> with a pendulum, or even better, time the pendulum...
> right in the heart of downtown Gedankenland.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> --
> - Original Message -
> From: "Dan Brumleve" jdb1...@gmail.com
> To: mojave_meteori...@cox.net
> cc: "meteorite-list" meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:57 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject)
>
>
>> Reminds me of a thought-experiment that I thought of...
>>
>> If there are an infinite number of Earths stacked on top of each
>> other, how much gravity do you feel standing on top?
>>
>> Dan
>> __
>
>
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[meteorite-list] A-B Collection is up

[Mike Bandli]

Dear List:

Over the years I have thoroughly enjoyed sites that have photos and
descriptions of there collections online. In particular, Peter Marmet's site
has been a real inspiration to 'do something different' with these specimens
and share them with the world. I don't know anyone who doesn't enjoy looking
at pictures of other people's meteorites! We all have our excel spreadsheets
and notes, but taking photos of each and every specimen has really made me
appreciate them more than I ever thought possible.

I finally have the first A-B section of my photographic collection up:

http://historicmeteorites.com/HistoricMeteorites/Collection.html

Click on the A-B button at the bottom. I'm doing this in chunks, as it takes
a ridiculous amount of time to finish each meteorite! Please let me know
off-list if there are any errors or problems. I hope to finish a section
every other week until it is done.

Take care,

Mike Bandli
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765



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Re: [meteorite-list] ENOUGH Speed-of-light question

[Mike Hankey]

i hear ya, and agree about being on topic, but there seems to be a
good bit of interest in this topic, so i'd say let it roll...? you can
tell from the subject what its related to, so you can easily delete
the emails without reading them if you're not interested. its kind of
fun / enjoyable for me to follow along, if it was off list, i would
miss a lot of these replies, i think this is in the same category as
the alien discussion and matrix discussions... not really meteor
related, but interesting none the less. I think volume of replies
often suggests a good topic people are interested in. I'm also eagerly
awaiting Rob's answer.

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/jack-knows-best.jpg

Mike Hankey,

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Michael Blood wrote:
> Please guys,
>        This is not exactly hard core meteorite related.
>        A few posts - ok  - hell, a dozen posts, ok. But this
> On and on and on and on is enough already!
>        Can those few of you obsessed with this take it off
> The list, please?
>        ( could be wrong - if there are dozens of List members
> Who want to see this stay on the list, go ahead and post to
> The list and in the subject line put "KEEP the SOL Q
> Going"
>        Not to be a bummer - Michael
>
>
> On 8/26/09 10:35 AM, "Darren Garrison"  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:49:01 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, so what's the speed of dark?
>>>
>>
>> "The speed of dark is known to be greater than that of light. It must be,
>> otherwise the dark wouldn¹t be able to get out of the light¹s way."
>>
>> http://freespace.virgin.net/ianstewart.joat/MATHDW/light.html
>> __
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] ENOUGH Speed-of-light question

[Martin Altmann]

But Captain, it is!

Remember how often you are asked, whether there are meteorites from other
galaxies !

Skol
Martin




-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Michael
Blood
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2009 23:09
An: cyna...@charter.net; Meteorite List
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] ENOUGH Speed-of-light question

Please guys,
This is not exactly hard core meteorite related.
A few posts - ok  - hell, a dozen posts, ok. But this
On and on and on and on is enough already!
Can those few of you obsessed with this take it off
The list, please? 
( could be wrong - if there are dozens of List members
Who want to see this stay on the list, go ahead and post to
The list and in the subject line put "KEEP the SOL Q
Going"
Not to be a bummer - Michael


On 8/26/09 10:35 AM, "Darren Garrison"  wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:49:01 -0400, you wrote:
> 
>> Ok, so what's the speed of dark?
>> 
> 
> "The speed of dark is known to be greater than that of light. It must be,
> otherwise the dark wouldn¹t be able to get out of the light¹s way."
> 
> http://freespace.virgin.net/ianstewart.joat/MATHDW/light.html
> __
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


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[meteorite-list] Over 2000 Hits & Contest Update

[Meteorites USA]

Hi guys, Just a quick email to say thanks for over 2000 Hits!

Spacifieds.com -
Over - 2400 Hits In Less than 48 hrs
Over - 400+ unique visitors have either posted ads or visited
46 Total Ads Posted

Not too shabby for a brand new site... Thanks Guys!

Spacifieds.com is Free to post your items for sale of trade
Auto Tweet: Automatically posts all ad listings to the "Official" 
Spacifieds.com Twitter page LIVE! For FREE!
ReTweet Button - In ALL ad listing. Allows visitors and you to retweet 
any ad posting!

You can even Retweet your own ad listing directly to Twitter!

Free Meteorite Contest: Get the most views on your ad listing and get 
this meteorite:

http://www.spacifieds.com/meteorites/free-meteorite-contest-post-ads-win-details/

UPDATE - Current CONTEST Leader: Pictorial Catalogue On One Hundred 
Indian Meteorites (1999) (99 views)
Posting a link to this would be unfair, so I'll let you check it out if 
you want to see it.


Ebay Links: YES! You are allowed to post your individual Ebay Auction 
links or links to your Ebay store in your ad listings.


Dealers: YES! you can include links directly to your Spacifieds ad 
listings in your emails and advertisements just like you do with your 
Ebay auctions. The links are search engine friendly too, meaning Google 
likes them. And there's no symbols or nonsense that could cause broken 
links.


BlogRoll Link: Free Blogroll link to your astronomy or meteorite related 
website just for posting 10 ads or more. This link is visible to 
visitors on EVERY page of the site.


Premium Featured AD Space: Top Of Every Page! I've added 18 spots! 50x50 
pixel banner ads at the top of the site. These ads display on EVERY page 
of the site!


There's really a lot more but you have to join to find out.
http://www.spacifieds.com

What are you waiting for.

Thanks everyone, for all your help, advice, and feedback, maybe this 
could actually turn into something useful for the meteorite and 
astronomy community.


I know you can use it, and hope you like it!

Also I just wanted to say, Spacifieds is not limited to meteorites. If 
you're an amateur or professional astronomer, astronomy buff, or 
scientist you're more than welcome to post your astronomy related 
classified free. Trade items and Wanted ad listings are welcome too. Got 
an old collection of Astronomy magazines you want to sell? Space related 
comics? How about an old telescope, or collectible lithograph? Maybe you 
have a digital camera, or some other electronic device. Scientific 
equipment is also welcome. Microscopes, scales, testing equipment, lab 
equipment. Basically anything related to astronomy can be listed for 
free. Buy, Sell, Trade, and Wanted listings.


Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
Spacifieds.com

P.S. I still have 5 (125x125 pixel) ad spots available on the Meteorites 
USA home page. $99 year or $150 for both Meteorites USA and 
MeteoriteBlog.com http://www.meteoritesusa.com/ads.htm



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Re: [meteorite-list] ENOUGH Speed-of-light question

[Michael Blood]

Please guys,
This is not exactly hard core meteorite related.
A few posts - ok  - hell, a dozen posts, ok. But this
On and on and on and on is enough already!
Can those few of you obsessed with this take it off
The list, please? 
( could be wrong - if there are dozens of List members
Who want to see this stay on the list, go ahead and post to
The list and in the subject line put "KEEP the SOL Q
Going"
Not to be a bummer - Michael


On 8/26/09 10:35 AM, "Darren Garrison"  wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:49:01 -0400, you wrote:
> 
>> Ok, so what's the speed of dark?
>> 
> 
> "The speed of dark is known to be greater than that of light. It must be,
> otherwise the dark wouldn¹t be able to get out of the light¹s way."
> 
> http://freespace.virgin.net/ianstewart.joat/MATHDW/light.html
> __
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Sentenced- new information

[cdtucson]

OMG, 
That's amazing. You are all  welcome to hunt in Arizona anytime you'd like. We 
might be a bit friendlier here. . Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
IMCA 5829
Meteoritemax


 drtanuki  wrote: 
> Meteorite hunters banished from Burke
> By Elizabeth Billips lizbill...@yahoo.com
> 
> The two meteorite hunters caught trespassing in Burke County won't be coming 
> back.
> 
> They've been banished.
> 
> In state court last Wednesday morning, Las Vegas meteorite hunter Ralph 
> "Sonny" Clary Jr., 49, and ...
> 
> http://www.thetruecitizen.com/news/2009/0408/for_the_record/032.html
> __
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> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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[meteorite-list] Inclusion in meteorite

[bernd . pauli]

Hi Greg St. and List,

What does it look like under a microscope? If you can see cleavages at 90°
it's probably a (weathered) pyroxene (fragment), otherwise it might be a
fragment of an oxidized olivine crystal.

Fred Beroud's Açfer 336 (L3.8; S3; W3) has a few of these conspicuous
orange chondrules. See, for example, Met.Bull. photos by "Meteoriteshow"
and by "Michel Girard".

The black seam may be melted troilite or it's a zoned olivine, i.e. the outer
rim is chemically different from the interior parts of the crystal.

Will send you a 16x (magnification) JPEG of such an
orange chondrule in my Açfer 336 slice in a private mail!


Best wishes,

Bernd

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[meteorite-list] Inclusion in Meteorite

[Greg Stanley]

List:

I recently acquired an unclass NWA and after cutting it, I not only found a 
nice 5 mm chondrule but an odd orange brown inclusion.  It almost looks like a 
fossil shell - triangular in shape; I know it's not.  It is also outlined with 
black.  Take a look.





http://www.flickr.com/photos/9106...@n04/



Has anyone seen anything like this?

Thanks,

Greg S.

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Re: [meteorite-list] (no subject)

[Sterling K. Webb]

Hi, Dan, Rob, List,

   The key weasel-word in that puzzle is "infinite."
An infinite number of anything, no matter how
small, even neutrons, has infinite mass and hence 
exerts infinite gravitational force. 


   Your infinite stack of Earths will collapsr at the
speed of light, having wrapped all space and time
around itself. You are a string of particles stretched
out over light years, with the tip of your nose pressed
against the event horizon at the speed of light where
you feel infinite force, but you are not moving because 
time is standing still for you, and you will stay that 
way forever... in your inertial frame.


   The Newtonian solution is simple. Using the central 
force assumption of Newtonian gravitation (hey! works 
for me!), the gravity you feel is the sum of an infinite series:
1 + (1/3)^2 + (1/5)^2 + (1/7)^2 + (1/9)^2 + (1/11)^2 + 
(1/13)^2 + (1/15)^2 + (1/17)^2 + (1/19)^2 + ... =

1.208722 G's! (approximately, OK?)

   Your problem is that your Earths are too close together.
There is a cosmological solution that allows an infinite
static universe with infinite mass to have a finite and low 
mass density. They're called Charlier universes, but I

never met one. They're awfully empty...

   Experiment is the key to all knowledge. You stack up
an infinite number of Earths, then time falling objects 
with a pendulum, or even better, time the pendulum... 
right in the heart of downtown Gedankenland.



Sterling K. Webb
--
- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Brumleve" jdb1...@gmail.com

To: mojave_meteori...@cox.net
cc: "meteorite-list" meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:57 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject)



Reminds me of a thought-experiment that I thought of...

If there are an infinite number of Earths stacked on top of each
other, how much gravity do you feel standing on top?

Dan
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Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

[Chris Peterson]

Well, that energy is on the same order at the mass-energy equivalence, so it 
doesn't seem unreasonable. You just need an efficient fusion generator. A 
matter-antimatter annihilator seems like another possibility. And what's 
wrong with Bussard ramjets, or some similar system that scoops up reaction 
mass along the way?


Obviously I'm not saying any sort of practical spacecraft capable of 
sustained 1G acceleration is going to happen without decades or centuries of 
continued technological development. I'm only saying that no fundamental 
physics stands in its way. That is not the case for something that shields 
the contents of that spacecraft from feeling acceleration. The former is 
science fiction right now; the latter is fantasy.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Garrison" 

To: "Chris Peterson" 
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question


On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:46:42 -0600, you wrote:


Like I said, a mere engineering problem. Nothing in physics precludes a
battery on your ship with that amount of energy content.


Let's round up the acceleration from .7xg to 1g-- just to provide Earthlike
artificial gravity.  According to the calculator, on that 4.37 ly trip to 
Alpha
C, at 1g of acceleration, the maximum kinetic energy of the ship will be 
around
200,000,000,000,000,000 joules per kilogram of mass.  And, remember, the 
fuel
used to generate that acceleration will have to be carried, too, and will 
itself
have to be accelerated (unless you have some sort of Buzzard ramjet 
arrangement,
which could provide some of that fuel.)  What energy source are you 
proposing
that could provide that energy? 


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Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

[Darren Garrison]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:49:01 -0400, you wrote:

>Ok, so what's the speed of dark?
>

"The speed of dark is known to be greater than that of light. It must be,
otherwise the dark wouldn’t be able to get out of the light’s way."

http://freespace.virgin.net/ianstewart.joat/MATHDW/light.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

[Darren Garrison]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:46:42 -0600, you wrote:

>Like I said, a mere engineering problem. Nothing in physics precludes a 
>battery on your ship with that amount of energy content. 

Let's round up the acceleration from .7xg to 1g-- just to provide Earthlike
artificial gravity.  According to the calculator, on that 4.37 ly trip to Alpha
C, at 1g of acceleration, the maximum kinetic energy of the ship will be around
200,000,000,000,000,000 joules per kilogram of mass.  And, remember, the fuel
used to generate that acceleration will have to be carried, too, and will itself
have to be accelerated (unless you have some sort of Buzzard ramjet arrangement,
which could provide some of that fuel.)  What energy source are you proposing
that could provide that energy?  
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[meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

[JoshuaTreeMuseum]

Ok, so what's the speed of dark?

Let's say you're in a car traveling at the speed of light, does anything 
happen if you turn on the headlights?


A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking,

Apologies to Steven Wright,

Phil Whitmer




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Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

[Chris Peterson]

To get a ship merely very close to the speed of
light would take much less energy, say the total
energy output of a few galactic clusters,
give or take...


Like I said, a mere engineering problem. Nothing in physics precludes a 
battery on your ship with that amount of energy content. But damping 
inertia... that's another matter completely.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Garrison" 

To: "Chris Peterson" 
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question


On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:55:35 -0600, you wrote:

Engines capable of steady acceleration are not impossible or fictional. 
They
are real and already in use. It is a mere  engineering problem to 
produce

one that can operate long enough to reach another star.



But the closer an object gets to the speed of light, the higher your 
inertial
mass becomes-- so you are constantly having to use more and more energy, 
pushing
harder and harder just to maintain that constant rate of acceleration.  To 
get
an object with a rest mass infinitely close to the speed of light would take 
an

infinite amount of energy.  To get a ship merely very close to the speed of
light would take much less energy, say the total energy output of a few 
galactic
clusters, give or take... 


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Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

[Darren Garrison]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:55:35 -0600, you wrote:

>Engines capable of steady acceleration are not impossible or fictional. They 
>are real and already in use. It is a mere  engineering problem to produce 
>one that can operate long enough to reach another star.
>

But the closer an object gets to the speed of light, the higher your inertial
mass becomes-- so you are constantly having to use more and more energy, pushing
harder and harder just to maintain that constant rate of acceleration.  To get
an object with a rest mass infinitely close to the speed of light would take an
infinite amount of energy.  To get a ship merely very close to the speed of
light would take much less energy, say the total energy output of a few galactic
clusters, give or take...  
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Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

[Chris Peterson]

But since
we are describing impossible fictional devices, there is no need to be
constrained to those parameters.  Along with the fictional 
steady-accelleration

engine, you could toss in inertial dampera and allow for a much heavier
accelleration at the start and end points, with a engines-off crusing 
period in

between, which may burn much less unobtanium than steady accelleration.


Engines capable of steady acceleration are not impossible or fictional. They 
are real and already in use. It is a mere  engineering problem to produce 
one that can operate long enough to reach another star.


On the other hand, inertial dampers (as I assume you mean the term) are 
fictional and very likely impossible.


An unmanned probe could tolerate higher accelerations, and therefore reach 
its destination much closer to the theoretical minimum in our time frame- 
those of us waiting behind for it to get there and start sending information 
back. That is, just under the light time to get there, and exactly the light 
time for the data to arrive back at Earth.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Garrison" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question


Not to be petty, but I beat Doug by at least half an hour.  :-)  The time 
stamp
on my e-mail is screw up is all (because of my time zone settings in XP. 
Unless

you concider using a web calculator to be cheating...

But the numbers given by Doug's math, your math, and my cheating are only 
one
possible answer out of many.  All assume a steady constant accelleration 
to the
midpoint, followed by a steady constant decelleration (which is really 
just an
accelleration pointed in the opposite direction) to the destination.  But 
since

we are describing impossible fictional devices, there is no need to be
constrained to those parameters.  Along with the fictional 
steady-accelleration

engine, you could toss in inertial dampera and allow for a much heavier
accelleration at the start and end points, with a engines-off crusing 
period in
between, which may burn much less unobtanium than steady accelleration. 
Say you
have an Orion style spacecraft and a sufficient supply of antimatter 
bombs, and

the human crew can survive, within their inertial dampening cocoons, maybe
1,000g of accelleration (or make up your own figure.)  There would be any 
number
of accelleration rates and times, plus mid-flight cruises, that could give 
you

the number you want.

Play with those numbers.  :-)


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Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

[Darren Garrison]

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:27:46 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Doug was first with the correct answer:  1/sqrt(2) * speed of light
>or a little more than 70% of the speed of light.  I figured it
>might come down to a race between Doug and Sterling.  ;-)

Not to be petty, but I beat Doug by at least half an hour.  :-)  The time stamp
on my e-mail is screw up is all (because of my time zone settings in XP.  Unless
you concider using a web calculator to be cheating...

But the numbers given by Doug's math, your math, and my cheating are only one
possible answer out of many.  All assume a steady constant accelleration to the
midpoint, followed by a steady constant decelleration (which is really just an
accelleration pointed in the opposite direction) to the destination.  But since
we are describing impossible fictional devices, there is no need to be
constrained to those parameters.  Along with the fictional steady-accelleration
engine, you could toss in inertial dampera and allow for a much heavier
accelleration at the start and end points, with a engines-off crusing period in
between, which may burn much less unobtanium than steady accelleration.  Say you
have an Orion style spacecraft and a sufficient supply of antimatter bombs, and
the human crew can survive, within their inertial dampening cocoons, maybe
1,000g of accelleration (or make up your own figure.)  There would be any number
of accelleration rates and times, plus mid-flight cruises, that could give you
the number you want.

Play with those numbers.  :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29
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[meteorite-list] (no subject)

[Dan Brumleve]

Reminds me of a thought-experiment that I thought of...

If there are an infinite number of Earths stacked on top of each
other, how much gravity do you feel standing on top?

Dan
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Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

[Sterling K. Webb]

Since our inertial frame is HERE,
the universe is expanding away from
us and WE are standing still, just like
in good ol' medieval cosmology. We are,
by our own definition, a rest frame.
Therefore, no motion = no dialation of
time.

Around these parts, one second is
one second long, bub!

Now, if you're in a distant galaxy, far,
far away, and we're red-shifted --- well,
that's another matter.


Sterling K. Webb

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Ford" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question




Reminds me of a question I was asked a while back -  what's the 
average

time dilation of all mass/particles in the universe, due to the
expansion rate of the universe - i.e how much younger is the universe
now than it 'should be' if it was static?

(I had to think about that one!)

I guess technically since time was created at T=0 then the answer is
simply 'now'!?

Mark



-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Matson
Sent: 26 August 2009 08:28
To: Mexicodoug; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

Hi All,

Doug was first with the correct answer:  1/sqrt(2) * speed of light
or a little more than 70% of the speed of light.  I figured it
might come down to a race between Doug and Sterling.  ;-)

Here's an alternative way of looking at the problem which will
give you the correct answer almost immediately. The trick is to
assume that *ALL* objects travel at the same "velocity" in
4-dimensional space-time, and for convenience we'll call this
velocity "c". For simplicity, assume linear motion along just
one spatial axis -- let's just call it the X-axis and make it
horizontal. Now add a perpendicular axis (traditionally the
Y-axis) but instead we're going to call it the T-axis (the
velocity component in the time-axis direction):

 ^
 |
 |
T |
 |
 +->
  X

A vector representing the velocity of any object will have a
length of c. Any object traveling at the speed of light (e.g.
a photon) is represented by the vector of length c parallel
to the X-axis; in other words, time stands still for this
object. And any object at rest gets represented by a vector
of length c parallel to the T-axis; all the "motion" is in
the direction of time.

For our problem, we're looking for the vector that has equal
velocity components in both the X-axis and T-axis (X=T).
Obviously this is a 45-degree angle clockwise from +T (or
counterclockwise from +X). So the component of the 4-D velocity
that is in the spatial direction is C*COS(45), while the
component of the 4-D velocity that is in the time direction
is C*SIN(45). Voila!

When you accelerate from a stand-still, your 4D velocity vector
rotates away from vertical and toward horizontal (by a
miniscule amount). Using the simple system above, you can easily
figure out the required velocity in order to cover 2 light-years
distance in one year, 4 light-years in one year, etc.

--Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

[Mark Ford]

Reminds me of a question I was asked a while back -  what's the average
time dilation of all mass/particles in the universe, due to the
expansion rate of the universe - i.e how much younger is the universe
now than it 'should be' if it was static? 

(I had to think about that one!)

I guess technically since time was created at T=0 then the answer is
simply 'now'!?

Mark



-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Matson
Sent: 26 August 2009 08:28
To: Mexicodoug; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

Hi All,

Doug was first with the correct answer:  1/sqrt(2) * speed of light
or a little more than 70% of the speed of light.  I figured it
might come down to a race between Doug and Sterling.  ;-)

Here's an alternative way of looking at the problem which will
give you the correct answer almost immediately. The trick is to
assume that *ALL* objects travel at the same "velocity" in
4-dimensional space-time, and for convenience we'll call this
velocity "c". For simplicity, assume linear motion along just
one spatial axis -- let's just call it the X-axis and make it
horizontal. Now add a perpendicular axis (traditionally the
Y-axis) but instead we're going to call it the T-axis (the
velocity component in the time-axis direction):

  ^
  |
  |
T |
  |
  +->
   X

A vector representing the velocity of any object will have a
length of c. Any object traveling at the speed of light (e.g.
a photon) is represented by the vector of length c parallel
to the X-axis; in other words, time stands still for this
object. And any object at rest gets represented by a vector
of length c parallel to the T-axis; all the "motion" is in
the direction of time.

For our problem, we're looking for the vector that has equal
velocity components in both the X-axis and T-axis (X=T).
Obviously this is a 45-degree angle clockwise from +T (or
counterclockwise from +X). So the component of the 4-D velocity
that is in the spatial direction is C*COS(45), while the
component of the 4-D velocity that is in the time direction
is C*SIN(45). Voila!

When you accelerate from a stand-still, your 4D velocity vector
rotates away from vertical and toward horizontal (by a
miniscule amount). Using the simple system above, you can easily
figure out the required velocity in order to cover 2 light-years
distance in one year, 4 light-years in one year, etc.

--Rob

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copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their 
contents to any other person. 

GENERAL STATEMENT:

Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications 
carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and 
for other lawful purposes.

Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. 
Company No 1800317


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[meteorite-list] Speed-of-light question

[Rob Matson]

Hi All,

Doug was first with the correct answer:  1/sqrt(2) * speed of light
or a little more than 70% of the speed of light.  I figured it
might come down to a race between Doug and Sterling.  ;-)

Here's an alternative way of looking at the problem which will
give you the correct answer almost immediately. The trick is to
assume that *ALL* objects travel at the same "velocity" in
4-dimensional space-time, and for convenience we'll call this
velocity "c". For simplicity, assume linear motion along just
one spatial axis -- let's just call it the X-axis and make it
horizontal. Now add a perpendicular axis (traditionally the
Y-axis) but instead we're going to call it the T-axis (the
velocity component in the time-axis direction):

  ^
  |
  |
T |
  |
  +->
   X

A vector representing the velocity of any object will have a
length of c. Any object traveling at the speed of light (e.g.
a photon) is represented by the vector of length c parallel
to the X-axis; in other words, time stands still for this
object. And any object at rest gets represented by a vector
of length c parallel to the T-axis; all the "motion" is in
the direction of time.

For our problem, we're looking for the vector that has equal
velocity components in both the X-axis and T-axis (X=T).
Obviously this is a 45-degree angle clockwise from +T (or
counterclockwise from +X). So the component of the 4-D velocity
that is in the spatial direction is C*COS(45), while the
component of the 4-D velocity that is in the time direction
is C*SIN(45). Voila!

When you accelerate from a stand-still, your 4D velocity vector
rotates away from vertical and toward horizontal (by a
miniscule amount). Using the simple system above, you can easily
figure out the required velocity in order to cover 2 light-years
distance in one year, 4 light-years in one year, etc.

--Rob

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