Re: [meteorite-list] Fight Over Meteorite Crashes Into Court
Yeah it's a pretty riduculous argument when you think about it. If it didn't touch/imbed itself in the ground??? C'mon! How about we skydive onto the roof of the White House and see how they feel about that! Hey... we wouldn't imbed ourselves in the ground! ;-) Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: meteorh...@aol.com To: Thunder Stone stanleygr...@hotmail.com; meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:56 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fight Over Meteorite Crashes Into Court List, If declared by the judge as so, would this mean meteorites found on top of the ground, and not imbeded into the ground on federal lands would now not belong to landowner (U.S. Govt)? I wonder what the Smithsonian's stance is on this issue will be when their representatives are called if the case goes to court? Very interesting. Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Thunder Stone stanleygr...@hotmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:43:17 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Fight Over Meteorite Crashes Into Court List: I'm curious how this will turn out; may set a precedent. For the owner of the land to own the meteorite, it has to imbed itself into the land or building... H We'll see... http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/07/21/29000.htm Fight Over Meteorite Crashes Into Court By RYAN ABBOTT FAIRFAX, Va. (CN) - A family medical practice has sued its landlord to determine who owns the palm-sized meteorite that crashed through the building's roof into an examination room. The doctors say the meteorite is in safekeeping at the Smithsonian Institutions, which offered $5,000 for the space rock, which the doctors want to donate for relief work in Haiti. Williamsburg Square Family Practice sued its landlord, Mutlu Property Management and several members of the Mutlu family, in Fairfax County Court. The doctors claim that the Mutlus swooped in and claimed ownership of the meteorite after the incident garnered local publicity. The doctors say they lease the office suite from the Mutlu family and are in exclusive possession of that property during [their] lease term. The meteorite did not imbed itself in the land or building, and thus did not become a part of the land or fixture, the doctors point out. The meteorite crashed into an examination in the doctors' suite at 5:45 p.m. on Jan. 18 this year. No one was in the room when the meteorite broke through the ceiling and came to rest in pieces on the floor, and nobody was hurt. The doctors say that Erol Mutlu initially agreed to donate the rock to the Smithsonian for preservation and study. Then the Mutlus changed their mind, said they intended to pick up the meteorite, and objected to its being handed over to the Smithsonian, according to the complaint. The doctors office says that if the court declares it the owner of the historical artifact, it will stay with the Smithsonian, and the money will go to the Haitian relief effort of Doctors Without Borders. The Practice seeks declaratory judgment. It is represented by Keith Marino with Arent Fox. _ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Springwater 52 Kilo main mass in the news!
Spectacular... well done to you all and congratulations! A wonderful discovery! Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Robert Ward ironfromthesky@gmail.com To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 11:54 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Springwater 52 Kilo main mass in the news! Hello list, The 52 Kilo main mass of the Springwater pallasite found by Shauna and I has recently been cut by the Royal Ontario Museum and was publicly announced by the R.O.M. today. We did a news interview in Tucson this morning, some of that footage can be seen in this link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avs-pmcEplE __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale - AD
Shawn, Well-said - But I can't emphasize enough the fact that such large bodies existed in large numbers in the early solar system. That much is obvious from the large numbers of ungrouped (and grouped) differentiated achondrites that we have in our collections here on earth, as well as from all various types of iron meteorites, which represent the cores of diffeentiated planetismals. All in all, we have meteorites that suggest well over 30-40 such bodies in the early solar system, and computer-run models in some cases suggest hundreds of such bodies. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/education/events/cowen1d.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_and_evolution_of_the_Solar_System#Formation_of_planets Note that wikipedia suggests 50-100 such bodies. I wouldn't usually reference wikipedia for something like this, but see references 35-36 for the article - that's actually a decent estimate that's been backed up by some serious work done by experts -- it's not just a crap wikipedia reference. So, angrites may be from Mercury. If we say that, regardless of their composition and history, they just needed to be from a large planetismal capable of some metamorphic activity, then we've got a 1/50 to 1/100 chance that angrites are, in fact, from Mercury. The trouble is that their chemistry and age suggest that they're not from Mercury. I agree. They *might* be from Mercury. And yes, some smart people have said that they *might* be from Mercury. But it seems to me that this article is being deemed credible because of its authors, and not because of what it actually says. I do not refute Melinda Hutson's article that was never peer reviewed and contains several errors according to the classifying scientists. I asked scientists about the article and they stated, it is obvious that she didn't read the original peer reviewed abstract carefully, even mistaking the type of petrology that was discussed using formulas that simply do not apply to the texture NWA 2999 exhibits. I'd like to know what these errors were, and how the error might have affected her conclusions. Perhaps Adam or someone else would be willing to explain her errors and how they suggest that angrites are actually from Mercury. Seems like this is the perfect sort of topic for the list... Regards, Jason Hi Jason and List, I do not refute Melinda Hutson's article that was never peer reviewed and contains several errors according to the classifying scientists. I asked scientists about the article and they stated, it is obvious that she didn't read the original peer reviewed abstract carefully, even mistaking the type of petrology that was discussed using formulas that simply do not apply to the texture NWA 2999 exhibits. There were several prestigious coauthors listed in the original paper; Unique Angrite NWA 2999: The Case For Samples From Mercury. Who am I to argue with the world's best? I will keep an open mind and hope for some ground truth that will hopefully settle it once and for all. I think the authors were making a point of having an open mind and that the subject should be debated possibly stimulated more scientific interest in Angrites. It took a long time to win over the scientific community that some of these meteorites were actually from Mars. It was debated to death and now nobody argues about the Shergottite parent body any more. Best Regards, Adam __ On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 8:09 PM, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers, I would have to say NWA 2999 and the other Angrites that might have a connection to Mercury in fairness is speculative, like with the rest of the meteorites that can’t be traced back to a parent body because of the lack of physical evidence. This was also true with the Moon and Mars meteorites, but we have samples taken from the surface to prove otherwise. But in all in fairness there is good evidence that points to the likelihood that NWA 2999 and other Angrites “could be” in fact from Mercury. This argument can be supported by an article which Jason posted in one of his posts on this topic of NWAs from Mercury. CORONAS AND SYMPLECTITES IN PLUTONIC ANGRITE NWA 2999 AND IMPLICATIONS FOR MERCURY AS THE ANGRITE PARENT BODY. S. M. Kuehner1, A. J. Irving1, T. E. Bunch2, J. H. Wittke2,G. M. Hupé and A. C. Hupé, 1Dept. of Earth Space Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195, (kueh...@u.washington.edu), 3Dept. of Geology, Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff, AZ 86011. In the research article, the authors make good points about the connection that NWA 2999 and Mercury has, and that the NWA meteorite have gone through a vertical tectonics process which occurs on Earth and Mercury. This observation can suggest that NWA 2999 could be from Mercury but the only way to prove that NWA 2999 is indeed from Mercury is to send a probe to the surface and bring back actual rocks samples from the
[meteorite-list] qmig.net thin-section project
Listoids Update/s tomorrow http://www.qmig.net/thinsection Tonite I'm just gonna enjoy looking at the new image/s... Youse better download any reference image/s of BARATTA MOSSGIEL NARYILCO youse need - they'll be gone tomorrow I have duplicate slides of HUCKITTA MOSSGIEL to upload and have high hopes of how the micrographs from my larger thin-section of MOSSGIEL will turn out... I'll also upload some micrographs of McKINNEY - the slide turned out to be a bit too thin so I'll send it's twin brother away in case better results can be achieved I'm still seeking to borrow any pretty or interesting specimens to thin-section or thin-sections themselves - a very few listoids have said they will help and for this I am grateful but it won't take long until I need new specimens to micrograph Over to youse but it would be nice for you to help and all the listoids benefit especially when the endstate I'm seeking is a book on thin-sections by one of my colleagues Best __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angritesfor sale - AD
Huh, I found even a paper, which postulates, that the HEDs are from Mercury and the angrites from Venus http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/otp2004/pdf/3012.pdf ;-) Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Juli 2010 11:27 An: Shawn Alan; Meteorite-list; Adam Hupe Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angritesfor sale - AD Shawn, Well-said - But I can't emphasize enough the fact that such large bodies existed in large numbers in the early solar system. That much is obvious from the large numbers of ungrouped (and grouped) differentiated achondrites that we have in our collections here on earth, as well as from all various types of iron meteorites, which represent the cores of diffeentiated planetismals. All in all, we have meteorites that suggest well over 30-40 such bodies in the early solar system, and computer-run models in some cases suggest hundreds of such bodies. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/education/events/cowen1d.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_and_evolution_of_the_Solar_System#For mation_of_planets Note that wikipedia suggests 50-100 such bodies. I wouldn't usually reference wikipedia for something like this, but see references 35-36 for the article - that's actually a decent estimate that's been backed up by some serious work done by experts -- it's not just a crap wikipedia reference. So, angrites may be from Mercury. If we say that, regardless of their composition and history, they just needed to be from a large planetismal capable of some metamorphic activity, then we've got a 1/50 to 1/100 chance that angrites are, in fact, from Mercury. The trouble is that their chemistry and age suggest that they're not from Mercury. I agree. They *might* be from Mercury. And yes, some smart people have said that they *might* be from Mercury. But it seems to me that this article is being deemed credible because of its authors, and not because of what it actually says. I do not refute Melinda Hutson's article that was never peer reviewed and contains several errors according to the classifying scientists. I asked scientists about the article and they stated, it is obvious that she didn't read the original peer reviewed abstract carefully, even mistaking the type of petrology that was discussed using formulas that simply do not apply to the texture NWA 2999 exhibits. I'd like to know what these errors were, and how the error might have affected her conclusions. Perhaps Adam or someone else would be willing to explain her errors and how they suggest that angrites are actually from Mercury. Seems like this is the perfect sort of topic for the list... Regards, Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD Tamhakht, Ureilite and NWA's
Dear List Members, I have some specimen for sale : - Tamdakht H5, two specimen. First 261 grams, with nice primary and secondary crust. Second 114 gram specimen with also a nice crust. http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/Tamdakht02# - NWA xxx 929 grams nice shape, fresh crust. Really lovely piece. http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWA929Gram# - NWA xxx 420 grams, probably LL type, fresh crust and interior. http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWA420Grams# - and I still have a Museum Sized Specimen of Ureilite NWA 6069 weight 1828 grams. Photos : http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/Ureilite1877Grams# Specimen is little oriented in my opinion (hard to show it on photos but have a good shape). Texture is typical for monomict ureilite, triple junctions, vein like area filled by graphite and diamonds, shocked stage is low, in cut surface You can see dark coarsely grained texture with mm sized olivines and pyroxene. Size of specimen is : 145x120x85mm, piece looks better in hand. I found a lot of diamonds using Raman Spectroscopy (not only typical diamond but also hexagonal diamond - Lonsdaleite). Any question please send to illae...@gmail.com Best Regards Tomasz Jakubowski IMCA #2321 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angritesfor sale - AD
Martin and Listers, The paper you provided that postulates that HEDS are from Mercury and Angrites are from Venus suggests that from the solar system zonation model that would be the case which is in question, but not to suggest that those classes are from Mercury or Venus but that the model is flawed, which needs to be reevaluated. Hence, the conclusion is mocking the solar system zonation model by your postulated statement. :)~ Shawn Alan [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angritesfor sale - ADMartin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 22 07:00:49 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale - AD Next message: [meteorite-list] Springwater 52 Kilo main mass in the news! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Huh, I found even a paper, which postulates, that the HEDs are from Mercury and the angrites from Venus http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/otp2004/pdf/3012.pdf ;-) Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Juli 2010 11:27 An: Shawn Alan; Meteorite-list; Adam Hupe Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angritesfor sale - AD Shawn, Well-said - But I can't emphasize enough the fact that such large bodies existed in large numbers in the early solar system. That much is obvious from the large numbers of ungrouped (and grouped) differentiated achondrites that we have in our collections here on earth, as well as from all various types of iron meteorites, which represent the cores of diffeentiated planetismals. All in all, we have meteorites that suggest well over 30-40 such bodies in the early solar system, and computer-run models in some cases suggest hundreds of such bodies. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/education/events/cowen1d.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_and_evolution_of_the_Solar_System#For mation_of_planets Note that wikipedia suggests 50-100 such bodies. I wouldn't usually reference wikipedia for something like this, but see references 35-36 for the article - that's actually a decent estimate that's been backed up by some serious work done by experts -- it's not just a crap wikipedia reference. So, angrites may be from Mercury. If we say that, regardless of their composition and history, they just needed to be from a large planetismal capable of some metamorphic activity, then we've got a 1/50 to 1/100 chance that angrites are, in fact, from Mercury. The trouble is that their chemistry and age suggest that they're not from Mercury. I agree. They *might* be from Mercury. And yes, some smart people have said that they *might* be from Mercury. But it seems to me that this article is being deemed credible because of its authors, and not because of what it actually says. I do not refute Melinda Hutson's article that was never peer reviewed and contains several errors according to the classifying scientists. I asked scientists about the article and they stated, it is obvious that she didn't read the original peer reviewed abstract carefully, even mistaking the type of petrology that was discussed using formulas that simply do not apply to the texture NWA 2999 exhibits. I'd like to know what these errors were, and how the error might have affected her conclusions. Perhaps Adam or someone else would be willing to explain her errors and how they suggest that angrites are actually from Mercury. Seems like this is the perfect sort of topic for the list... Regards, Jason Previous message: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale - AD Next message: [meteorite-list] Springwater 52 Kilo main mass in the news! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angritesforsale - AD
It's not my conclusion :-) I'm happy and content with our (at least most of them) HEDs originating from Vesta. And I almost can't wait - until Dawn will finally arrive at Vesta next year! Go Dawn, go!! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn Alan Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Juli 2010 13:33 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angritesforsale - AD Martin and Listers, The paper you provided that postulates that HEDS are from Mercury and Angrites are from Venus suggests that from the solar system zonation model that would be the case which is in question, but not to suggest that those classes are from Mercury or Venus but that the model is flawed, which needs to be reevaluated. Hence, the conclusion is mocking the solar system zonation model by your postulated statement. :)~ Shawn Alan [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angritesfor sale - ADMartin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 22 07:00:49 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale - AD Next message: [meteorite-list] Springwater 52 Kilo main mass in the news! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Huh, I found even a paper, which postulates, that the HEDs are from Mercury and the angrites from Venus http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/otp2004/pdf/3012.pdf ;-) Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Juli 2010 11:27 An: Shawn Alan; Meteorite-list; Adam Hupe Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angritesfor sale - AD Shawn, Well-said - But I can't emphasize enough the fact that such large bodies existed in large numbers in the early solar system. That much is obvious from the large numbers of ungrouped (and grouped) differentiated achondrites that we have in our collections here on earth, as well as from all various types of iron meteorites, which represent the cores of diffeentiated planetismals. All in all, we have meteorites that suggest well over 30-40 such bodies in the early solar system, and computer-run models in some cases suggest hundreds of such bodies. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/education/events/cowen1d.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_and_evolution_of_the_Solar_System#For mation_of_planets Note that wikipedia suggests 50-100 such bodies. I wouldn't usually reference wikipedia for something like this, but see references 35-36 for the article - that's actually a decent estimate that's been backed up by some serious work done by experts -- it's not just a crap wikipedia reference. So, angrites may be from Mercury. If we say that, regardless of their composition and history, they just needed to be from a large planetismal capable of some metamorphic activity, then we've got a 1/50 to 1/100 chance that angrites are, in fact, from Mercury. The trouble is that their chemistry and age suggest that they're not from Mercury. I agree. They *might* be from Mercury. And yes, some smart people have said that they *might* be from Mercury. But it seems to me that this article is being deemed credible because of its authors, and not because of what it actually says. I do not refute Melinda Hutson's article that was never peer reviewed and contains several errors according to the classifying scientists. I asked scientists about the article and they stated, it is obvious that she didn't read the original peer reviewed abstract carefully, even mistaking the type of petrology that was discussed using formulas that simply do not apply to the texture NWA 2999 exhibits. I'd like to know what these errors were, and how the error might have affected her conclusions. Perhaps Adam or someone else would be willing to explain her errors and how they suggest that angrites are actually from Mercury. Seems like this is the perfect sort of topic for the list... Regards, Jason Previous message: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale - AD Next message: [meteorite-list] Springwater 52 Kilo main mass in the news! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list
Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale -...
Yikes! Abstracts to meetings are not peer reviewed! jeff On 7/21/2010 10:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: Hi Jason and List, I do not refute Melinda Hutson's article that was never peer reviewed and contains several errors according to the classifying scientists. I asked scientists about the article and they stated, it is obvious that she didn't read the original peer reviewed abstract carefully, even mistaking the type of petrology that was discussed using formulas that simply do not apply to the texture NWA 2999 exhibits. There were several prestigious coauthors listed in the original paper; Unique Angrite NWA 2999: The Case For Samples From Mercury. Who am I to argue with the world's best? I will keep an open mind and hope for some ground truth that will hopefully settle it once and for all. I think the authors were making a point of having an open mind and that the subject should be debated possibly stimulated more scientific interest in Angrites. It took a long time to win over the scientific community that some of these meteorites were actually from Mars. It was debated to death and now nobody argues about the Shergottite parent body any more. Best Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale -...
I agree with Jeff completely. Same thing happens in Medicine. And even when the data is peer reviewed, that doesn't mean that it is rock solid truth. It's a process of continual evaluation and refinement. David -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Grossman Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:40 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale -... Yikes! Abstracts to meetings are not peer reviewed! jeff On 7/21/2010 10:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: Hi Jason and List, I do not refute Melinda Hutson's article that was never peer reviewed and contains several errors according to the classifying scientists. I asked scientists about the article and they stated, it is obvious that she didn't read the original peer reviewed abstract carefully, even mistaking the type of petrology that was discussed using formulas that simply do not apply to the texture NWA 2999 exhibits. There were several prestigious coauthors listed in the original paper; Unique Angrite NWA 2999: The Case For Samples From Mercury. Who am I to argue with the world's best? I will keep an open mind and hope for some ground truth that will hopefully settle it once and for all. I think the authors were making a point of having an open mind and that the subject should be debated possibly stimulated more scientific interest in Angrites. It took a long time to win over the scientific community that some of these meteorites were actually from Mars. It was debated to death and now nobody argues about the Shergottite parent body any more. Best Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this email. P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this email. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 4662 ANGRITE
Hi Jason, I just bought a NWA 4662 Angrite. The TKW is less than most Angrite but I seldom heard of people talking about it. Would you tell me any difference between these angrite. Thank you. Kai __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] qmig.net thin-section project update... and something off-topic too !!!
Listoids Iz getting there - I've been unwell but I'm back into it again trying to catch up on a few projects... Duplicate slide of HUCCKITTA has been micrographed and uploaded Tis 2244 aussie time so beddy byes for me now... I'll upload McKINNEY and MOSSGIEL tomorrow ! The new micrographs from my duplicate slide of MOSSGIEL are very very pretty - well worth a look As always - the index webpage of the thin-section project is at http://www.qmig.net OFF TOPIC - GRRR - internet is SLOOOW tonite - serves me right for destroying my download quota for roms for my DINGOO A330 handheld emulator... ahhh the joys of playing your old favourite console and arcade machine games !!! Did you know that a certain meteorite dealer from San Diego is likely to hold the all-time hi-score for MS PACMAN... myself I am a unashamed FROGGER fan If any of youse wanna share your hi-scores or fave console and arcade games with the listoids please do so ! indeed I'd appreciate some correspondence with whatever listoids are emulation fans Nitey nite __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 4662 ANGRITE
Hello Kai, You might be interested to know that your specimen is paired to NWA 2836, 2999, 3164, and 6291. http://www.catchafallingstar.com/nwa4662.htm But I checked the Meteoritical Bulletin, and there are more pairings! NWA 3158, 4569, 4662, 4931, and possibly 4877 are all part of the same fall, apparently. And that's not me talking - that's NAU and the Meteoritical Bulletin! So your specimen is actually a piece of the second-largest angrite ever found, and is part of the only known angrite multiple-fall; the reported tkw of the fall is approximately 5 kilograms if you go by the bulletin (6kg if you include 4877), but there's probably a bit more out there. Beyond that, well - we've gone over NWA 2999 and its relatives quite a bit in the past few list messages on angrites. You can check out the paper that suggests they're from Mercury. It describes a stone that's paired to yours, so...kinda cool. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2006/pdf/1344.pdf Best, Jason On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:34 AM, kai ke toronto...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jason, I just bought a NWA 4662 Angrite. The TKW is less than most Angrite but I seldom heard of people talking about it. Would you tell me any difference between these angrite. Thank you. Kai __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale -...
I am not disputing other crystals in angrites, my comments were to the translucent slices like mine has. While many chimed in and claimed to have seen such, still, nobody has shown pictures of an angrite with back lit translucent crystals (like in a pallasite) that are 1cm x 1cm in size. I find it interesting how fast some people seem to want to discredit my new Angrite. This is a really awesome meteorite! I've seen such crystals in larger D'Orbigny specimens, and I'm sorry that you feel like this is a personal attack, and I'm sorry that I don't have a large slice of D'Orbigny lying around that I can snap some photos of. The simple fact of the matter is that you made some claims regarding your angrite that I, and others who have seen said pieces of D'Orbigny, know to be untrue. Is anyone trying to say anything bad about your angrite? Nope. I brought up the Mercury question again (take a look at list archives - it's come up before with regards to a listing by the Hupes) because...the topic was breached again. Had it been someone like the Hupes, or Farmer that announced this, I really dont think that would have happened. The last time this came up (a month ago), it was in response to a post regarding a small piece of NWA 2999 selling for a ridiculous price at auction. I believe the specimen was listed by Darryl Pitt, since he usually lists such material at auction houses, but I could well be mistaken. This was the result: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2010-June/066002.html No, we're not picking on you in particular. I felt like making a note given that we'd just gone over this topic and the folks trying to sell the angrites didn't seem to bat an eyelid at the fact that the proof that angrites came from Mercury seemed tenable at first, and now looks to be...just plain bad. As I noted, yours is still the only known angrite with translucent anorthosite crystals, and it's still a piece of some of the rarest stuff on earth (at least twice as much martian and significantly more lunar material has been found than angrite). There's a reason that was said. Now I suppose you can call me a liar and say that I never saw such piece of D'Orbigny, but...Anne was kind enough to post a photo of a piece with a centimeter-sized olivine crystal, and one of the papers that I included a link to in my last email noted similar crystals in the specimen they examined, as well as in Asuka 881371. Such crystals exist. Even if you don't believe that I've seen one, think about it. D'Orbigny was mostly sliced up. It contains cm-sized clear olivine crystals. That's an easy 2+2... Regards, Jason Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Wed, 7/21/10, impact...@aol.com impact...@aol.com wrote: From: impact...@aol.com impact...@aol.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale -... To: meteorite...@gmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 9:09 PM Jason, Will this one do? _http://www.impactika.com/DOrbVug.jpg_ (http://www.impactika.com/DOrbVug.jpg) Taken in Sept. 2001 in Denver, in Eduardo's show room. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 7/21/2010 6:44:57 PM Mountain Daylight Time, meteorite...@gmail.com writes: Hello Greg, All, Sheesh...you might read that paragraph again. The Hupe's don't sell martian material with the statement may contain traces of martian life. At least they didn't the last time I checked And, yes, D'Orbigny contains cm-sized crystals of translucent, gemmy, pallasite-like olivine. They compose about 1% of the meteorite, by volume. I've seen some in some hand-sized specimens that E.T. had for sale a few years ago, but can't find any great photos online. Apparently Asu88 contains upwards of 10% similar crystals by volume (see article linked-to above), but I couldn't find any pictures of that one. The interesting thing about your Angrite is the fact that the translucent crystal is anorthosite. So far as I know, it's the first time that a translucent *anorthosite* crystal has been found in an Angrite. Best, Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
[meteorite-list] Research Yields Greater Precision in Determining Age of Meteorites
NEWS RELEASE FROM THE PLANETARY SCIENCE INSTITUTE SENT: July 21, 2010 FROM: Alan Fischer Public Information Office Planetary Science Institute 520-885-5648 fisc...@psi.edu Research Yields Greater Precision in Determining Age of Meteorites Researchers have aged dated a very important group of meteorites with far greater precision than previously possible by using a different type of radioactive dating on a particularly difficult type of specimen to study. The project found that the asteroid from which ureilite meteorites are derived differentiated - or separated into parts of different composition - within 5 million years of the formation of the Solar System, said Cyrena Anne Goodrich, senior scientist at the Planetary Science Institute. That is a really short time period, she said. Goodrich's research offered dating with approximately 10 times greater precision than previously available. Most meteorite dating research has looked at two types of meteorite - angrites and eucrites - which contain ample amounts of minerals necessary for the study. Goodrich and her team opted to investigate ureilites. The project's radioactive isotope dating methods looked at short-lived radionuclides rather than the long-lived radionuclides that researchers have studied for years. Ureilites are the second most abundant group of differentiated meteorites, but they are particularly enigmatic and are very difficult to date because they don't contain many different minerals, she said. Radiometric dating is based on the principle that radioactive elements decay and change into other elements at a constant rate that can be measured in a laboratory. The basic idea behind radioactive dating is that if you can measure the ratio of parent to daughter isotopes in a rock or mineral using a mass spectrometer, which separates isotopes from one another according to their weight, you can calculate its age. Short-lived radionuclides are isotopes that decay much faster than the long-lived ones. In fact, they decay so quickly that any parent atoms that were present at the time the Solar System formed would have completely changed into daughter isotopes a long time ago, she said. By measuring the daughter isotopes in several different minerals, it is possible to determine how much of the parent isotope was in the rock when rock formed, and this value can be compared to a known value for how much of the parent was present at some specific time, say at the formation of the Solar System. Goodrich's research, which was funded by NASA grants, studied how isotopes manganese-53 decays to chromium-53 and aluminum-26 decays to magnesium 26. We were able to apply Mn-Cr and Al-Mg dating to ureilites because I discovered some unusual Mn-rich and Al-rich minerals in a couple of rare types of ureilites, she said. The results of our work provide the first high-precision ages dates for ureilites, 4.5639 billion years ago, plus or minus 0.00045 billion years (450,000 years). Earlier dating efforts for ureilites offered precision of only plus or minus 6 million years, she said. The beauty of this technique is that it has much smaller uncertainties than the long-lived radionuclide dating technique, and the development of this method has resulted in scientists using meteorites to work out many details of what happened in our Solar System in the first 5-6 million years of its history. In particular, they have been able to reconstruct many details of the early differentiation of planetesimals like asteroids. Goodrich is lead author of a paper, 53Mn-53Cr and 26Al-26Mg ages of a feldspathic lithology in polymict ureilites, appearing in Earth Planetary Science Letters in July. Meteorites are a solid piece of some planetary body - planets, moons, asteroids and comets in our Solar System - other than Earth that got chipped off its parent body and made its way to Earth. Meteorites are free samples of other bodies, and the vast majority of the world's collections totaling more than 39,000 specimens come from various asteroids. Meteorites are an invaluable source of information about the formation and early evolution of our Solar System, partly because any record of the Earth's earliest history has been destroyed by subsequent geological processing. Without meteorites we would probably know very little about the beginnings of our Solar System, Goodrich said. CONTACT: Cyrena Anne Goodrich Senior Scientist 802-875-1509 cgoodr...@psi.edu __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Caltech Team Finds Evidence of Water in Moon Minerals
July 21, 2010 Contact: Jon Weiner +1 (626) 395-3226 jrwei...@caltech.edu CALTECH TEAM FINDS EVIDENCE OF WATER IN MOON MINERALS That dry, dusty Moon overhead? Seems it isn't quite as dry as it's long been thought to be. Although you won't find oceans, lakes, or even a shallow puddle on its surface, a team of geologists at the California Institute of Technology (Caltech), working with colleagues at the University of Tennessee, has found structurally bound hydroxyl groups (i.e., water) in a mineral in a lunar rock returned to Earth by the Apollo program. Their findings are detailed in this week's issue of the journal Nature. The Moon, which has generally been thought to be devoid of hydrous materials, has water, says John Eiler, the Robert P. Sharp Professor of Geology and professor of geochemistry at Caltech, and a coauthor on the paper. The fact that we were able to quantitatively measure significant amounts of water in a lunar mineral is truly surprising, adds lead author Jeremy Boyce, a visitor in geochemistry at Caltech, and a research scientist at the University of California, Los Angeles. The team found the water in a calcium phosphate mineral, apatite, within a basalt collected from the Moon's surface by the Apollo 14 astronauts. To be precise, they didn't find water -- the molecule H2O. Rather, they found hydrogen in the form of a hydroxyl anion, OH-, bound in the apatite mineral lattice. Hydroxide is a close chemical relative of water, explains coauthor George Rossman, Caltech's Eleanor and John R. McMillan Professor of Mineralogy. If you heat up the apatite, the hydroxyl ions will 'decompose' and come out as water. The lunar basalt sample in which the hydr collected by the Apollo 14 Moon mission in 1971; the idea to focus the search for water on this particular sample was promoted by Larry Taylor, a professor at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville, who sent the samples to the Caltech scientists last year. The Moon has been considered to be bone dry ever since the return of the first Apollo rocks, Taylor notes. However, there are lunar volcanic deposits interpreted as having been erupted by expanding vapor. Although carbon dioxide and sulfur gases have generally been thought to dominate the expanding vapor, recent evidence from the study of the these deposits has suggested that water could also play a role in powering lunar volcanic eruptions. The discovery of hydroxyl in apatite from lunar volcanic rocks is consistent with this suggestion. The idea of looking for water in lunar apatite isn't new, Boyce notes. Charles B. Sclar and Jon F. Bauer, geoscientists at Lehigh University, first noted that something was missing from the results of chemical analyses of apatite in 1975, he says. Now, 35 years later, we have quantitative measurements -- and it turns out, they were right. The missing piece was OH. The Caltech team analyzed the lunar apatite for hydrogen, sulfur, and chlorine using an ion microprobe, which is capable of analyzing mineral grains with sizes much smaller than the width of a human hair. This instrument fires a focused beam of high-energy ions at the sample surface, sputtering away target atoms that are collected and then analyzed in a mass spectrometer. Ion microprobe measurements demonstrated that in terms of its hydrogen, sulfur, and chlorine contents, the lunar apatite in this sample is indistinguishable from apatites from terrestrial volcanic rocks. We realized that the Moon and the Earth were able to make the same kind of apatite, relatively rich in hydrogen, sulfur and chlorine, Boyce says. Does that mean the Moon is as awash in water as our planet? Almost certainly not, say the scientists. Moon must contain to be capable of generating hydroxyl-rich apatite remains an open question. After all, it's hard to scale up the amount of water found in the apatite -- 1600 parts per million or 0.16 percent by weight -- to determine just how much water there is on the lunar landscape. The apatite that was studied is not abundant, and is formed by processes that tend to concentrate hydrogen to much higher levels than are present in its host rocks or the Moon as a whole. There's more water on the Moon than people suspected, says Eiler, but there's still likely orders of magnitude less than there is on the Earth. Nonetheless, the finding is significant for what it implies about our Moon's composition and its history. These findings tell us that the geological processes on the Moon are capable of creating at least one hydrous mineral, Eiler says. Recent spectroscopic observations of the Moon showed that hydrogen is present on its surface, maybe even as water ice. But that could be a thin veneer, possibly hydrogen brought to the Moon's surface by comets or solar wind. Our findings show that hydrogen is also part of the rock record of the Moon, and has been since early in its history. Beyond that, Eiler continues, it's all a great big question mark. We don't know whether
Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale - AD
List: I hope NWA 2999 is from Mercury - would be nice. Do we have rocks from Mars? Didn't scientists determine the meteorites are from Mars by measuring the isotopes and matched the atmosphere on Mars. Do we actually need samples from Mercury to determine if these Angrites are from Mercury? Greg S. Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:09:40 -0700 From: photoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale - AD Hello Listers, I would have to say NWA 2999 and the other Angrites that might have a connection to Mercury in fairness is speculative, like with the rest of the meteorites that can’t be traced back to a parent body because of the lack of physical evidence. This was also true with the Moon and Mars meteorites, but we have samples taken from the surface to prove otherwise. But in all in fairness there is good evidence that points to the likelihood that NWA 2999 and other Angrites “could be” in fact from Mercury. This argument can be supported by an article which Jason posted in one of his posts on this topic of NWAs from Mercury. CORONAS AND SYMPLECTITES IN PLUTONIC ANGRITE NWA 2999 AND IMPLICATIONS FOR MERCURY AS THE ANGRITE PARENT BODY. S. M. Kuehner1, A. J. Irving1, T. E. Bunch2, J. H. Wittke2,G. M. Hupé and A. C. Hupé, 1Dept. of Earth Space Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195, (kueh...@u.washington.edu), 3Dept. of Geology, Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff, AZ 86011. In the research article, the authors make good points about the connection that NWA 2999 and Mercury has, and that the NWA meteorite have gone through a vertical tectonics process which occurs on Earth and Mercury. This observation can suggest that NWA 2999 could be from Mercury but the only way to prove that NWA 2999 is indeed from Mercury is to send a probe to the surface and bring back actual rocks samples from the surface and subsurface. Down below is the abstract that suggests this process to be evident in the connection with NWA 2999 and Mercury. The Mercury Connection: Papike et al. [9] suggested that angrites might be samples from Mercury based on volatile depletion, and systematic of plagioclase compositions and Fe/Mn ratios in mafic minerals. The spectacular symplectite and corona textures in NWA 2999 evidently require a parent body capable of several kilometers of vertical tectonics. Of the silicate planets, only Earth and Mercury are known to have appropriate tectonic processes. Similar textures are well-known in deepseated terrestrial plutonic rocks (including mantle peridotites [10] ) exhumed by continental plate tectonic collisions, but on Mercury this could be accomplished by thrust faulting, for which there is strong evidence [11]. Dynamical calculations [12] predict that several percent of material ejected from Mercury could reach Earth, so it would not be too surprising to find Hermean meteorites. Additional arguments supporting this conjecture were given by Irving et al. [1]. Shawn Alan [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale - AD Jason Utas meteoritekid at gmail.com Wed Jul 21 20:13:36 EDT 2010 • Previous message: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale - AD • Next message: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale - AD • Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello Greg, All, I managed to turn up these pages: http://www.meteoritestudies.com/protected_DORBIGNY.HTM http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/nwa-2934-angrite-meteorite-possible-nwa-2999-3164-1 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2001/pdf/1876.pdf So, NWA 2836, 2999, 3164 (all three supposedly paired), D'Orbigny, and Asu88 all display similar translucent crystals. Angrites are some of the rarest material on earth - that should stand alone. Trying to put one in some way above the others doesn't make much sense to me. Without getting into this too deeply - researchers have been trying to find a meteorite from another one of the terrestrial planets (other than Mars) for decades. Trying to cram a square peg into a round hole ain't the way to do it. http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1995Metic..30..269L http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1995LPI26..865L http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20070021589_2007019150.pdf In my opinion, it's a little much to claim that a meteorite came from a single parent body based only three main points: 1) Both are depleted in sodium and are highly refractive (so were other parent bodies that formed in the region). 2) There's an observed feature (corona around a plagioclase crystal) that may have been formed by tectonic action on its parent body...or some other form of decompression or
[meteorite-list] Gebel Kamil crater website
There is a new website with information about the Gebel Kamil crater and the geophysical survey conducted on it: http://www.mna.it/hosts/Kamil/index.htm There are a lot of photographs of the region and of material recovered from the area, including the largest mass to date, 80kg: http://www.mna.it/hosts/Kamil/field/kamil_13.jpg Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King ofAngritesfor sale - AD
Martin, Jason, Shawn, c., The fly or flaw in the ointment, the paper, and the responses is an unspoken but apparently universal assumption that every sizeable body in the solar system currently resides at the same address where it accreted originally. What about a body that accretes in the 0.50 AU block, then moves 'way up the street and out to the 2.35 AU neighborhood? Like say, Vesta. Now, I'm not saying Vesta did that, you know, fled from the 'hood and moved to the suburbs... I just saying Vesta did not form where it is. No Way. Models that fit Vesta propose a iron core of about http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2010/pdf/2129.pdf 300 kilometers out of an original spherical body of 540 km. diameter. Such a body HAS to have accreted much, much closer to the Sun. I repeat, No Way. So, isotopic data that tell you where a body accreted MIGHT tell you everything you need to know about the place or it MIGHT tell you nothing of any use whatsoever. Even the old notion about the distribution of iron cores in the inner solar system is wrong. Decades ago, we assumed bigger iron cores in close, getting smoothly smaller as you moved out from the Sun. Then, we discovered that Venus' core is proportionally much smaller than the Earth's, and that Mars core is puny. Then, when we moved to the theory of the Moon being formed by a giant impact, or graze, or embrace, all the models said we had two cores -- our original core and the core captured from the big proto-Moon. Mercury too shows evidence of such a collision (although no moon resulted). All of a sudden, Venus and Mars have normal cores. The Earth is cheating -- it's packing an extra halfcore in its hip pocket, and Mercury has two cores-worth of core. Venus and Mars that are normal respectable planets, and Earth and Mercury are core-snatchers. A simple question like what should a meteorite from Mercury be like? is not a simple question. First, if Mercury suffered a giant impact early on, then its present crust (and upper mantle and maybe more) is derived from the impacting body. And that Big Whacker accreted... where? Nearby? Faraway? In-between? Then, there is the case of a parent body of some size blasted off the ORIGINAL primordial crust (and mantle) of Mercury by the giant impact, finding a new orbit, and providing enigmatic meteorites for the next billions of years. That original Mercurian crust could have been quite different from the present crust. As Jason pointed out, there were a gaggle of large differentiated bodies in the early system. I go with the hundreds rather than 30-40; see the work by SwRI that suggests 100+ of them from the inner solar system ended up in the Asteroid zone. The Zone is made up of natives and a horde of refugees, which could have accreted pretty much anywhere and will each have a unique formation history all their own. Present arguments are somewhat simple-minded. It's going to take centuries to sort out the life history of every body big enough to bother with. It's going to be fun. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 6:00 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King ofAngritesfor sale - AD Huh, I found even a paper, which postulates, that the HEDs are from Mercury and the angrites from Venus http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/otp2004/pdf/3012.pdf ;-) Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Juli 2010 11:27 An: Shawn Alan; Meteorite-list; Adam Hupe Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angritesfor sale - AD Shawn, Well-said - But I can't emphasize enough the fact that such large bodies existed in large numbers in the early solar system. That much is obvious from the large numbers of ungrouped (and grouped) differentiated achondrites that we have in our collections here on earth, as well as from all various types of iron meteorites, which represent the cores of diffeentiated planetismals. All in all, we have meteorites that suggest well over 30-40 such bodies in the early solar system, and computer-run models in some cases suggest hundreds of such bodies. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/education/events/cowen1d.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_and_evolution_of_the_Solar_System#For mation_of_planets Note that wikipedia suggests 50-100 such bodies. I wouldn't usually reference wikipedia for something like this, but see references 35-36 for the article - that's actually a decent estimate that's been backed up by some serious work done by experts -- it's not just a crap wikipedia reference. So, angrites may be from Mercury. If we say that, regardless of their composition and
Re: [meteorite-list] Gebel Kamil crater website
Thank you Gary. Nice site, and great pictures. Now for a question: Has the age of that crater been determined yet? And, related question, is there any chance it could be connected to the Libyan Glass? I haven't seen this question been asked yet, and it it has, I am sorry, I just missed it. Thanks. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 7/22/2010 2:07:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time, fuj...@mac.com writes: There is a new website with information about the Gebel Kamil crater and the geophysical survey conducted on it: http://www.mna.it/hosts/Kamil/index.htm There are a lot of photographs of the region and of material recovered from the area, including the largest mass to date, 80kg: http://www.mna.it/hosts/Kamil/field/kamil_13.jpg Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Gebel Kamil crater website
Hi Gary, Anne and List, LDG has an accepted age of about 26 million years. This crater would appear to be youthful example of a 26mya structure. I'd guess that this crater is newer than that. Of course, that is just my two cents. Actual worth may (and probably does) vary. Best regards, MikeG On 7/22/10, impact...@aol.com impact...@aol.com wrote: Thank you Gary. Nice site, and great pictures. Now for a question: Has the age of that crater been determined yet? And, related question, is there any chance it could be connected to the Libyan Glass? I haven't seen this question been asked yet, and it it has, I am sorry, I just missed it. Thanks. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 7/22/2010 2:07:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time, fuj...@mac.com writes: There is a new website with information about the Gebel Kamil crater and the geophysical survey conducted on it: http://www.mna.it/hosts/Kamil/index.htm There are a lot of photographs of the region and of material recovered from the area, including the largest mass to date, 80kg: http://www.mna.it/hosts/Kamil/field/kamil_13.jpg Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Gorgeous and Affordable Gebel Kamil Irons
Dear List, We have a beautiful assortment of small-sized and VERY affordable Gebel Kamil irons for sale. This is our entire inventory! Youll be quite pleased with these very low prices: http://historicmeteorites.com/HistoricMeteorites/Gebel-Kamil.html When ordering, please specify several selections, as we anticipate these might go fast. I will update the page several times a day to remove sold items, so if the page doesnt load, please wait a few minutes and try again. Thanks so much and have a great week! --- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorite1 IMCA #5765 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] qmig.net thin-section project
Listoids http://www.qmig.net/thinsection for the index webpage Mossgiel is uploading as I type - these micrographs are from another slide I own and I am particularly impressed by how gorgeous these micrographs are ! As prev - my upload speed is pathetic today - serves me right for downloading far too many console and arcade machine roms for my DINGOO A330 ! 10 days to go until my quota is restored... McKinney will follow shortly... I'm disappointed with these because the very old slide I borrowed was made far too thin thus the poor results... but I'll borrow it's twin brother to see if this provides a better result More update/s next week... NWA 869 and MARKOVKA (b) and a few surprises Cheers __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale -...
Hello everyone, Isn't 'science' just that, Science... Ever evolving as ground truth comes in? Without open minds and hard work by many dedicated individuals, 'science' would not get very far, especially in the world of meteortitics! Much of the initial work and/or thoughts are educated suggestions which are meant to excite others in rational and sometimes heated discussions, no matter what scientific focus is being discussed. I won't even bring up the evolution talks of the past... Best Regards, Greg Hupe On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:00 AM, Rose, David MD dr...@emersonhosp.org wrote: I agree with Jeff completely. Same thing happens in Medicine. And even when the data is peer reviewed, that doesn't mean that it is rock solid truth. It's a process of continual evaluation and refinement. David -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite- list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Grossman Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:40 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale -... Yikes! Abstracts to meetings are not peer reviewed! jeff On 7/21/2010 10:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: Hi Jason and List, I do not refute Melinda Hutson's article that was never peer reviewed and contains several errors according to the classifying scientists. I asked scientists about the article and they stated, it is obvious that she didn't read the original peer reviewed abstract carefully, even mistaking the type of petrology that was discussed using formulas that simply do not apply to the texture NWA 2999 exhibits. There were several prestigious coauthors listed in the original paper; Unique Angrite NWA 2999: The Case For Samples From Mercury. Who am I to argue with the world's best? I will keep an open mind and hope for some ground truth that will hopefully settle it once and for all. I think the authors were making a point of having an open mind and that the subject should be debated possibly stimulated more scientific interest in Angrites. It took a long time to win over the scientific community that some of these meteorites were actually from Mars. It was debated to death and now nobody argues about the Shergottite parent body any more. Best Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this email. P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this email. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: USA's best Meteorwrong AMAZING!!!
Hello to all, (sorry if this is a double post, I didnt see the first attempt post) I have just finished slicing and photographing some of the MendotaWrong material. I have some new amazingly beautiful pieces available. Look at the pieces on the following link: http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrong_4_sale_2.htm I will be adding new pieces often. I also have 2 500gram lots of really nice individuals for sale at $200. I will be adding photos of the lots soon. Thanks for looking. Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner http://illinoismeteorites.com http://skyrockcafe.com http://poisonivycontrolofillinois.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale -...
Well said. --- Melanie IMCA: 2975 eBay: metmel2775 Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09 Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get! - Original Message From: Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net To: Rose, David MD dr...@emersonhosp.org Cc: Jeff Grossman jgross...@usgs.gov; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, July 22, 2010 5:51:24 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale -... Hello everyone, Isn't 'science' just that, Science... Ever evolving as ground truth comes in? Without open minds and hard work by many dedicated individuals, 'science' would not get very far, especially in the world of meteortitics! Much of the initial work and/or thoughts are educated suggestions which are meant to excite others in rational and sometimes heated discussions, no matter what scientific focus is being discussed. I won't even bring up the evolution talks of the past... Best Regards, Greg Hupe On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:00 AM, Rose, David MD dr...@emersonhosp.org wrote: I agree with Jeff completely. Same thing happens in Medicine. And even when the data is peer reviewed, that doesn't mean that it is rock solid truth. It's a process of continual evaluation and refinement. David -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Grossman Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:40 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 The King of Angrites for sale -... Yikes! Abstracts to meetings are not peer reviewed! jeff On 7/21/2010 10:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: Hi Jason and List, I do not refute Melinda Hutson's article that was never peer reviewed and contains several errors according to the classifying scientists. I asked scientists about the article and they stated, it is obvious that she didn't read the original peer reviewed abstract carefully, even mistaking the type of petrology that was discussed using formulas that simply do not apply to the texture NWA 2999 exhibits. There were several prestigious coauthors listed in the original paper; Unique Angrite NWA 2999: The Case For Samples From Mercury. Who am I to argue with the world's best? I will keep an open mind and hope for some ground truth that will hopefully settle it once and for all. I think the authors were making a point of having an open mind and that the subject should be debated possibly stimulated more scientific interest in Angrites. It took a long time to win over the scientific community that some of these meteorites were actually from Mars. It was debated to death and now nobody argues about the Shergottite parent body any more. Best Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this email. P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this email. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Gebel Kamil crater website
Is there any chance that a list-member might have saved some (or even all?) of the photos from the site? It appears to have been taken down. Thanks, Jason On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Gary, Anne and List, LDG has an accepted age of about 26 million years. This crater would appear to be youthful example of a 26mya structure. I'd guess that this crater is newer than that. Of course, that is just my two cents. Actual worth may (and probably does) vary. Best regards, MikeG On 7/22/10, impact...@aol.com impact...@aol.com wrote: Thank you Gary. Nice site, and great pictures. Now for a question: Has the age of that crater been determined yet? And, related question, is there any chance it could be connected to the Libyan Glass? I haven't seen this question been asked yet, and it it has, I am sorry, I just missed it. Thanks. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 7/22/2010 2:07:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time, fuj...@mac.com writes: There is a new website with information about the Gebel Kamil crater and the geophysical survey conducted on it: http://www.mna.it/hosts/Kamil/index.htm There are a lot of photographs of the region and of material recovered from the area, including the largest mass to date, 80kg: http://www.mna.it/hosts/Kamil/field/kamil_13.jpg Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
