date:20101104

Hello Thomas,

There will be a meeting of the Petroglyph/Pictograph Society at Lake Mead, 
Nevada this weekend. One of the most experienced researchers, Dave Holt, has 
never heard of the Valley of the Yoni in Nevada, but will bring the name up 
at the meeting. If any Listees have questions regarding petroglyphs/pictographs 
in the Mohave/Sonoran I will be happy to put you in touch with Holt. He has 
asked me to be a gate keeper.

Best regards,

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536




-Original Message-
From: Thomas tmor...@mind.net
Sent: Nov 4, 2010 8:32 AM
To: 
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Petroglyphs

Speaking of petroglyphs. Does anyone know the location of the Vally of 
the Yoni's In Nevada?
All I know of it is that Tom Robbins did a short travel story about it. 
Sounded fascinating.
I've always wanted to look for meteorites there : )

Thomas M
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Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2

Gary and List,

Thank you for the post, Big Kahuna. Anybody know if all that outgassing imparts 
any thrust to the comet... and if so would it affect its orbit?

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536 

 


-Original Message-
From: Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com
Sent: Nov 4, 2010 8:49 AM
To: MeteorList meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2

For those of you who missed the live webcast, EPOXI spacecraft flew by Comet 
Hartley 2 a few minutes ago and took some absolutely stunning pictures with 
its Medium Resolution Imager.  Here is a composite of 3 of the 5 closest 
approach images:

http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/CometHartley-04.jpg

EPOXI mission webpage:  http://epoxi.umd.edu/

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
(808) 640-9161

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Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2

2010-11-04 Thread Gary Fujihara

Aloha Count,

Comets like Hartley 2 are comprised of rock, dust, water ice and frozen gases 
like carbon monoxide, methane and ammonia.  As the comet approaches the sun, 
volatile material vaporize and outgas from the nucleus from solar radiation.  

Although the outgassing of Comet Hartley 2 is quite active as can be seen in 
the spacecraft close approach images, and does impart a force (and a reactive 
force against the direction of the outgassing on the comet itself), it is 
negligible and does not alter the trajectory of the minor body to any 
appreciable degree due to the mass of the comet itself.

gary

On Nov 4, 2010, at 6:07 AM, Count Deiro wrote:

 Gary and List,
 
 Thank you for the post, Big Kahuna. Anybody know if all that outgassing 
 imparts any thrust to the comet... and if so would it affect its orbit?
 
 Count Deiro
 IMCA 3536 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com
 Sent: Nov 4, 2010 8:49 AM
 To: MeteorList meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Subject: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2
 
 For those of you who missed the live webcast, EPOXI spacecraft flew by Comet 
 Hartley 2 a few minutes ago and took some absolutely stunning pictures with 
 its Medium Resolution Imager.  Here is a composite of 3 of the 5 closest 
 approach images:
 
 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/CometHartley-04.jpg
 
 EPOXI mission webpage:  http://epoxi.umd.edu/
 
 Gary Fujihara
 Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
 http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
 (808) 640-9161
 
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 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
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Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
(808) 640-9161

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Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2

Hi Gary, Your explanation of the outgassing of comets and Count Deiro's 
question, made me think of one of the proposed ways of deflecting 
asteroids which uses the Yarkovsky effect to focus the suns energy on 
the outer surface of the asteroid thereby vaporizing material and 
causing a propulsive force to nudge the asteroid into a new orbit.


So, if the Yarkovsky effect will work on asteroids, what's the 
difference between that, and Comet Hartley 2's outgassing on the orbit 
of the body? Is the force from the outgassing that much less than what 
the Yarkovsky effect could produce?


Regards,
Eric



On 11/4/2010 9:18 AM, Gary Fujihara wrote:

Aloha Count,

Comets like Hartley 2 are comprised of rock, dust, water ice and frozen gases 
like carbon monoxide, methane and ammonia.  As the comet approaches the sun, 
volatile material vaporize and outgas from the nucleus from solar radiation.

Although the outgassing of Comet Hartley 2 is quite active as can be seen in 
the spacecraft close approach images, and does impart a force (and a reactive 
force against the direction of the outgassing on the comet itself), it is 
negligible and does not alter the trajectory of the minor body to any 
appreciable degree due to the mass of the comet itself.

gary

On Nov 4, 2010, at 6:07 AM, Count Deiro wrote:

   

Gary and List,

Thank you for the post, Big Kahuna. Anybody know if all that outgassing imparts 
any thrust to the comet... and if so would it affect its orbit?

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536




-Original Message-
 

From: Gary Fujiharafuj...@mac.com
Sent: Nov 4, 2010 8:49 AM
To: MeteorListmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2

For those of you who missed the live webcast, EPOXI spacecraft flew by Comet 
Hartley 2 a few minutes ago and took some absolutely stunning pictures with its 
Medium Resolution Imager.  Here is a composite of 3 of the 5 closest approach 
images:

http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/CometHartley-04.jpg

EPOXI mission webpage:  http://epoxi.umd.edu/

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html
(808) 640-9161

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Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html
(808) 640-9161

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[meteorite-list] EPOXI Successfully Flies by Comet Hartley 2


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-371  

NASA Mission Successfully Flies by Comet Hartley 2
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
November 04, 2010

PASADENA, CALIF. - NASA's EPOXI mission successfully flew by comet
Hartley 2 at about 7 a.m. PDT (10 a.m. EDT) today, and the spacecraft
has begun returning images. Hartley 2 is the fifth comet nucleus visited
by a spacecraft.

Scientists and mission controllers are currently viewing
never-before-seen images of Hartley 2 appearing on their computer
terminal screens.

The mission team and scientists have worked hard for this day, said
Tim Larson, EPOXI project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory,
Pasadena, Calif. It's good to see Hartley 2 up close.

Mission navigators are working to determine the spacecraft's closest
approach distance. Preliminary estimates place the spacecraft close to
the planned-for 700 kilometers (435 miles). Eight minutes after closest
approach, at 6:59:47 a.m. PDT ( 9:59:47 a.m. EDT), the spacecraft's
high-gain antenna was pointed at Earth and began downlinking vital
spacecraft health and other engineering data stored aboard the
spacecraft's onboard computer during the encounter. About 20 minutes
later, the first images of the encounter made the 37-million-kilometer
(23-million-mile) trip from the spacecraft to NASA's Deep Space Network
antennas in Goldstone, Calif., appearing moments later on the mission's
computer screens.

We are all holding our breath to see what discoveries await us in the
observations near closest approach, said EPOXI principal investigator
Michael A'Hearn of the University of Maryland, College Park.

A post-encounter news conference will be held at 1 p.m. PDT (4 p.m. EDT)
in the von Karman auditorium at JPL. It will be carried live on NASA TV.
Downlink and schedule information is online at http://www.nasa.gov/ntv.
The event will also be carried live on http://www.ustream.tv/nasajpl2.

EPOXI is an extended mission that utilizes the already in-flight Deep
Impact spacecraft to explore distinct celestial targets of opportunity.
The name EPOXI itself is a combination of the names for the two extended
mission components: the extrasolar planet observations, called
Extrasolar Planet Observations and Characterization (EPOCh), and the
flyby of comet Hartley 2, called the Deep Impact Extended Investigation
(DIXI). The spacecraft has retained the name Deep Impact.

JPL manages the EPOXI mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate,
Washington. The University of Maryland is home to the mission's
principal investigator, Michael A'Hearn. Drake Deming of NASA's Goddard
Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md., is the science lead for the
mission's extrasolar planet observations. The spacecraft was built for
NASA by Ball Aerospace  Technologies Corp., Boulder, Colo.

For more information about EPOXI visit http://www.nasa.gov/epoxi and
http://epoxi.umd.edu/.

DC Agle 818-354-5011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
a...@jpl.nasa.gov

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington
dwayne.c.br...@nasa.gov

Lee Tune 301-405-4679
University of Maryland, College Park
lt...@umd.edu

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Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2

2010-11-04 Thread Chris Peterson

The outgassing does affect the orbit, but the actual impact is very small. 
The actual mass loss is tiny compared with the entire mass of the nucleus, 
and the material velocity is low.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net
To: Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com; MeteorList 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2



Gary and List,

Thank you for the post, Big Kahuna. Anybody know if all that outgassing 
imparts any thrust to the comet... and if so would it affect its orbit?


Count Deiro


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Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2

2010-11-04 Thread Chris Peterson


Eric-

The Yarkovsky effect does not work by vaporizing material. It is related to 
the momentum of photons.


In the case of outgassing, the momentum is very low compared with the 
momentum of the nucleus, so the effect on the orbit is small as well. The 
Yarkovsky effect is also quite small on a body the size of Hartley. I think 
Yarkovsky dominates because it is a continuous process over the entire 
orbit, whereas outgassing only occurs during the time the nucleus is near 
the Sun. But in reality, both effects, as well as others (like gravitational 
perturbation) produce an orbit that can't be accurately predicted too far 
into the future. It is important to regularly recalculate orbital elements 
for bodies like this if very precise position information is required. I 
noticed during the flyby this morning that there seemed to be a 
miscalculated close passage time, which was corrected by a few minutes when 
the comet's orbit was recalculated.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2


Hi Gary, Your explanation of the outgassing of comets and Count Deiro's 
question, made me think of one of the proposed ways of deflecting 
asteroids which uses the Yarkovsky effect to focus the suns energy on the 
outer surface of the asteroid thereby vaporizing material and causing a 
propulsive force to nudge the asteroid into a new orbit.


So, if the Yarkovsky effect will work on asteroids, what's the difference 
between that, and Comet Hartley 2's outgassing on the orbit of the body? 
Is the force from the outgassing that much less than what the Yarkovsky 
effect could produce?


Regards,
Eric


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Re: [meteorite-list] Petroglyphs

Dear List,

The most petroglyphs I have ever seen in one place is about ten minutes from my 
house here in Laughlin, Nevada.  There are literally thousands in a place 
called 
Grape Vine Canyon.  I found many caves and a waterfall nearby while looking for 
meteorites. I didn't find any meteorites but did find a fulgurite and the 
skeletal remains of a giant tortoise with an old transmitter attached to the 
back of its shell in a box canyon.

It can be reached by a trail off of a dirt road that goes through Christmas 
Tree 
Pass.   Now is the perfect time of the year to hike with the temperature 
expected to reach only 86 degrees today.


Here is link:
http://www.forsythlv.com/grapevine.htm

Best Regards,

Adam
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[meteorite-list] NASA Administrator Statement On The Successful EPOXI Flyby of Comet Hartley 2



Nov. 4, 2010

David Weaver 
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-1600 
david.s.wea...@nasa.gov 

RELEASE: 10-293

NASA ADMINISTRATOR STATEMENT ON THE SUCCESSFUL EPOXI FLYBY OF COMET HARTLEY 2

WASHINGTON -- The following is a statement from NASA Administrator 
Charles Bolden on the EPOXI mission's successful flyby of comet 
Hartley 2: 

NASA extended its pioneering exploration of the solar system today 
with the successful flyby of comet Hartley 2 by our EPOXI mission. 
The stunning new images returned of the comet as it zoomed past the 
spacecraft at a relative speed of more than 27,000 mph are awe 
inspiring. The images taken and other science collected should help 
reveal new insights into the origins of our solar system as 
scientists pore over them in the months and years to come. And they 
are also yet another example of the incredible dedication, skill, and 
innovation of the engineers and scientists at NASA, and our partners, 
who accomplish these incredible technological feats. 

This mission represents one of NASA's most successful deep space 
exploration projects. The encounter with Hartley 2 today adds to the 
data collected by the mission during Deep Impact's prime mission to 
comet Tempel 1 in 2005 and the science acquired during the successful 
EPOCh mission. 

EPOXI is a wonderful example of the strong collection of NASA science 
missions we have coming up in the next few years that will enable us 
to visit destinations across the solar system in new and exciting 
ways, look through new windows out across our vast cosmos, and expand 
our understanding of our own home planet. Our increased investment in 
science will continue to yield valuable dividends for the future. 

On behalf of the entire NASA family and interested stargazers around 
the world, my congratulations to the EPOXI team for a great moment of 
scientific exploration and discovery. 

For more information about EPOXI, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/epoxi 

For more information about NASA and agency programs, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov 

-end-

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Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2

My mistake on the method of propulsion... Thanks for clearing that up 
for me Chris.. ;)


On 11/4/2010 10:03 AM, Chris Peterson wrote:

Eric-

The Yarkovsky effect does not work by vaporizing material. It is 
related to the momentum of photons.


In the case of outgassing, the momentum is very low compared with the 
momentum of the nucleus, so the effect on the orbit is small as well. 
The Yarkovsky effect is also quite small on a body the size of 
Hartley. I think Yarkovsky dominates because it is a continuous 
process over the entire orbit, whereas outgassing only occurs during 
the time the nucleus is near the Sun. But in reality, both effects, as 
well as others (like gravitational perturbation) produce an orbit that 
can't be accurately predicted too far into the future. It is important 
to regularly recalculate orbital elements for bodies like this if very 
precise position information is required. I noticed during the flyby 
this morning that there seemed to be a miscalculated close passage 
time, which was corrected by a few minutes when the comet's orbit was 
recalculated.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - From: Meteorites USA 
e...@meteoritesusa.com

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2


Hi Gary, Your explanation of the outgassing of comets and Count 
Deiro's question, made me think of one of the proposed ways of 
deflecting asteroids which uses the Yarkovsky effect to focus the 
suns energy on the outer surface of the asteroid thereby vaporizing 
material and causing a propulsive force to nudge the asteroid into a 
new orbit.


So, if the Yarkovsky effect will work on asteroids, what's the 
difference between that, and Comet Hartley 2's outgassing on the 
orbit of the body? Is the force from the outgassing that much less 
than what the Yarkovsky effect could produce?


Regards,
Eric


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[meteorite-list] BLM and Forest Service Maps...

2010-11-04 Thread michael cottingham


Hello,
I live with the Gila National Forest starting in my backyard and know very well 
the policies the Forest Service and BLM use in map revising. Starting about 30 
years ago all government agencies were directed to delete every archeological 
and historical site OFF the maps where ever possible. Old trails going to cliff 
dwellings and archeological sites were left off the maps starting in the late 
70's. Trails were rerouted away from sites as well. Looting and mindless 
destruction of these sites were the reasons.
One way to find these sites is to find OLD Forest Service maps from the 1940's 
to the 1960's. I collect these old maps for my area and it is unbelievable what 
has been left out.  In one map alone...when comparing to a modern map, over 300 
archeological sites have been omitted!  I am not saying this is badand 
since the world has changed in a lot of bad ways it makes since.

Best Wishes
Michael Cottinghamhttp://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history
  
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Re: [meteorite-list] Petroglyphs


Hello Tom,

There is no Yota Valley petroglyph location in Nevada. There is an extensive 
Kohta location near Gold Butte that I believe is what the Yota misnomer was 
referring to. Here is the location link and some photos.

http://www.forsythlv.com/goldbuttepetroglyphs.htm

Regards,

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536
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Re: [meteorite-list] Odessa

2010-11-04 Thread E.P. Grondine

Hello everyone - 

I am having a little discussion with Dennis Cox over at http://cosmictusk.com.

Dennis believes he has structures that demonstrate Boslough's airburst model, 
and he may well have. But he has convinced himself that Odessa was an airburst 
as well. Would any of you Odessa collectors take a few moments to clarify this 
for him? He has spotted the known nearby craters, and may have spotted some 
more nearby.

good hunting, 
E.P. 
Man and Impact in the Americas


  
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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

2010-11-04 Thread E.P. Grondine

Hi all - 

Yes, they exist but their use is restricted to professional archaeologists. One 
problem is looting, and even petroglyphs have been cut from walls with saws. 
The other problem is vandalism.

So if you want to photograph petroglyphs, Thomas, the only way to do it will be 
with the help of a professional archaeologist. 

FOIA does not apply.

E.P.



  
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Re: [meteorite-list] comet hartley

2010-11-04 Thread Greg Hupe


Hey All,

Anyone notice the similarities of the dumbell tektite comet 
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/epoxi/epoxi-1-20101104.html
that Jim commented on and some of the petroglyphs that Thomas has on his 
web page (halfway down his list of images here: 
http://www.photoblog.com/GreyDX/ )


Maybe those Indians were a little more sophisticated than most give them 
credit for. Maybe the BLM have some of their early telescopes hidden away 
from public view for government use! ;-)


Best regards,
Greg


Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault


- Original Message - 
From: jim_brady...@o2.co.uk

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:36 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] comet hartley



Thanks Jeff
  what a cool looking dumbell tektite comet---excellent job nasa

close-up image

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/epoxi/epoxi-1-20101104.html
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3236 - Release Date: 11/03/10 
15:34:00


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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps ?

2010-11-04 Thread Greg Hupe


MikeG wrote:
How do we know the BLM people aren't plundering those sites?

I know of one 1622 Spanish ship wreck site in Florida that the Park Service 
folks 'protect'. I have heard from several different people, including state 
officers, that some of the people who work at the particular park have been 
diving on the wreck for many years and taking finds. On the flip side, they 
aggressively keep others out of the area from even sport diving by 
harassment and intimidation. There are crooks in all aspects of government, 
no matter what country you live in.


Best regards,
Greg


Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault


- Original Message - 
From: Galactic Stone  Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com

To: David Norton renov8hot...@earthlink.net
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps ?



I would think a FOIA request could get the maps, if they exist.

Unless the secret locations are national security related, there is no
good reason for BLM to withhold that information.

And what makes a BLM officer any more trustworthy than the average
citizen?  How do we know the BLM people aren't plundering those sites?



On 11/4/10, David Norton renov8hot...@earthlink.net wrote:

If you can find older versions of topo maps you will see more detail in
labeling of features such as ruins. The current maps are more 
sanitized.


-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Thomas
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 8:33 PM
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps ?

Last week I was walking along a dry lake bed and looked up to see the
inevitable white truck parked next to mine. I walked back and had a nice
talk with a BLM officer. He was concerned that we were picking up
artifacts, which we were not. My wife mentioned that we were going to
look for some petroglyphs and asked him about the roads in that area.
No Mam, he says. We can't tell you anything about locations. In fact
there are many more petroglyphs and over a hundred caves that are not on
your maps and we can't tell you anything about.

Which makes me think that these locations must be a matter of record
somewhere. Does the BLM have secret maps not available to the public?

Thomas M

Petroglyph pictures if anyone's interested :
http://www.photoblog.com/GreyDX/

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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

Thomas wrote:



Last week I was walking along a dry lake bed and looked up to see the 
inevitable white truck parked next to mine. I walked back and had a  nice 
talk with a BLM officer. He was concerned that we were picking up 
artifacts, which we were not. My wife mentioned that we were going  to 
look for some petroglyphs and asked him about the roads in that  area. 
No Mam, he says. We can't tell you anything about locations. In  fact 
there are many more petroglyphs and over a hundred caves that are  not on 
your maps and we can't tell you anything about. 

Which makes me think that these locations must be a matter of record 
somewhere. Does the BLM have secret maps not available to the  public?



I hope you were not in Oregon or Washington State when you talked to this BLM 
officer.  If you were, do not mention the word meteorites because they are 
now 
off limits there due them being considered treasure the last year.  The BLM 
field personal sure don't act like they are public servants and work for us in 
many cases.  It seems he could have been more helpful and offer some assistance 
since they work for you.  I found that they always seem to be secretive and 
avoid answering questions, especially in California where one lied to our group 
and told us we were hiking on radioactive soil.  I investigated his claims and 
found they were false after he managed to scare the hell out of all of us with 
the radio active nonsense.

Best Regards,

Adam
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Re: [meteorite-list] comet hartley

2010-11-04 Thread jim_brady611

that is quite a timely coincidence
surely the meaning for those images are known within the respective 
Native American communities?
Jim

Original Message
From: gmh...@htn.net
Date: Nov 4, 2010 16:03 
To: jim_brady...@o2.co.uk, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] comet hartley

Hey All,

Anyone notice the similarities of the dumbell tektite comet 
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/epoxi/epoxi-1-20101104.html
that Jim commented on and some of the petroglyphs that Thomas has on 
his 
web page (halfway down his list of images here: 
http://www.photoblog.com/GreyDX/ )

Maybe those Indians were a little more sophisticated than most give 
them 
credit for. Maybe the BLM have some of their early telescopes hidden 
away 
from public view for government use! ;-)

Best regards,
Greg

Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

- Original Message - 
From: jim_brady...@o2.co.uk
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:36 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] comet hartley

 Thanks Jeff
  what a cool looking dumbell tektite comet---excellent job nasa

 close-up image

 http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/epoxi/epoxi-1-20101104.html
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[meteorite-list] AD Thin Sections Boxes

2010-11-04 Thread Marcin Cimala


Hi
I made some cleaning in my vault and I have to offer 65 boxes for thin 
sections.

Same as this one http://www.jensenmeteorites.com/supplies.htm

My price for all 30$ with shipping worldwide
New, unused
my paypal email is : pay...@polandmet.com


-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com   marcin(at)polandmet.com
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com  GSM: +48 (793) 567667
[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]

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Re: [meteorite-list] AD Thin Sections Boxes

2010-11-04 Thread Marcin Cimala


SOLD

- Original Message - 
From: Marcin Cimala mar...@meteoryt.net

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:28 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Thin Sections Boxes



Hi
I made some cleaning in my vault and I have to offer 65 boxes for thin 
sections.

Same as this one http://www.jensenmeteorites.com/supplies.htm

My price for all 30$ with shipping worldwide
New, unused
my paypal email is : pay...@polandmet.com


-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com   marcin(at)polandmet.com
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com  GSM: +48 (793) 567667
[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]

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[meteorite-list] (no subject)

2010-11-04 Thread Paul H.

In relation to “secret maps” of archaeological sites, E.P. wrote:

Yes, they exist but their use is restricted to professional 
archaeologists. One problem is looting, and even petroglyphs 
have been cut from walls with saws. The other problem is 
vandalism.

E. P. is correct about maps of archaeological sites do exist.
and are kept by specific federal and state agencies that 
have large tracts of land, which they manage and the State 
Historical Office for each of the various states in the United 
States. They are not secret in the sense that it is well 
known that such maps exist. It is just that they can be accessed 
and consulted only by professional archaeologists and other
people, who have an official need to know the location of
known archaeological sites for either research, land
management, firefighting, or other official purposes.

E.P. also stated:

So if you want to photograph petroglyphs, Thomas, the only
way to do it will be with the help of a professional archaeologist.

There is nothing wrong in photographing rock art as long
as nothing is done to the rock art. The problem comes is
when people enhance the rock art, i.e. by outlining it in 
chalk or applying liquids, in order to make it stand out. 
Such actions can very easily and all too often does damage 
the rock art.

1. Photographing Rock Art on Archeological Sites and Rock 
Walls by Morey Stinson.
http://bcn.boulder.co.us/environment/cacv/cacvphot.htm

2. Rock Art Site Etiquette
http://www.utahrockart.org/etiqt.htm

3. American Rock Research Association 
A Basic Guide for Rock Art Recording, 5 MB
http://www.arara.org/Recording_Manual.pdf
http://www.arara.org/

4. Ethics, Eastern States Rock Art Research Association
http://www.esrara.org/ethics.html
http://www.esrara.org/

You should not apply any substance such as liquid, powder, 
plastic, chalk, cloth, soil, or paper to enhance photography 
or drawing. Despite the ability to enhance photography, 
application of materials to rock art surfaces may forever 
alter its integrity. This has been found to be particularly 
true in radiometric age estimation of rock surfaces.

E.P. noted:

FOIA does not apply.

This is true. For a detailed discussion of this topic see:

U.S. Department of Energy, 2008, The Freedom of Information 
Act and Confidentiality of Cultural Resources. Environmental 
Policy and Assistance Information Brief HS-22-IB-2008-13 
(December 31, 2008). Office of Nuclear Safety, Quality Assurance, 
and Environment, Washington, D.C.

PDF file at:
http://www.hss.energy.gov/nuclearsafety/env/guidance/cultural/foia_cultural_resources.pdf

NHPA and ARPA specifically restrict disclosure of certain
types of sensitive information regarding cultural resources. 
These statutory provisions may result in information 
developed under these acts being withheld from public 
disclosure under the FOIA exemption discussed above.

NHPA = National Historic Preservation Act
ARPA = Archaeological Resources Protection Act

Yours,

Paul H.
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[meteorite-list] Photos of Comet reveals Space Peanut (Previous Post was Secret Maps and Petroglyph)

2010-11-04 Thread Paul H.

First Close-up Photos of Comet Hartley 2 Reveal a 
Space Peanut by Mike Wall, Fox News, Nov. 4, 2010
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/11/04/close-photos-comet-hartley-reveal-space-peanut/

Comet Hartley 2: NASA rendezvous a success, even
better pics on the way by Pete Spotts, Christian Science 
Monitor, Nov. 4, 2010,
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2010/1104/Comet-Hartley-2-NASA-rendezvous-a-success-even-better-pics-on-the-way

Deep space Comet Flyby: First Pictures: Empty 
NASA space bomber in race pass against 2nd 
target by Lewis Page, the Register
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/04/epoxi_flyby_pics/

Yours,

Paul

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Re: [meteorite-list] BLM and Forest Service Maps...

2010-11-04 Thread mafer

I can only agree...it's a black market around the world


On 5:40:17 pm 11/04/10 michael cottingham voyagebotan...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Hello,
 I live with the Gila National Forest starting in my backyard and know
 very well the policies the Forest Service and BLM use in map revising.
 Starting about 30 years ago all government agencies were directed to
 delete every archeological and historical site OFF the maps where ever
 possible. Old trails going to cliff dwellings and archeological sites
 were left off the maps starting in the late 70's. Trails were rerouted
 away from sites as well. Looting and mindless destruction of these
 sites were the reasons. One way to find these sites is to find OLD
 Forest Service maps from the 1940's to the 1960's. I collect these old
 maps for my area and it is unbelievable what has been left out.  In one
 map alone...when comparing to a modern map, over 300 archeological
 sites have been omitted!  I am not saying this is badand since the
 world has changed in a lot of bad ways it makes since.
 Best Wishes
 Michael Cottinghamhttp://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-histo
 ry

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Re: [meteorite-list] BLM and Forest Service Maps...

2010-11-04 Thread Galactic Stone Ironworks

Hi Folks,

If anyone has old BLM, Forest Service or Geological Survey maps for
Florida from that time period, let me know.  :)

Best regards,

MikeG

--
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone  Ironworks Meteorites

Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com
EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
---

On 11/4/10, ma...@imagineopals.com ma...@imagineopals.com wrote:
 I can only agree...it's a black market around the world


 On 5:40:17 pm 11/04/10 michael cottingham voyagebotan...@hotmail.com
 wrote:

 Hello,
 I live with the Gila National Forest starting in my backyard and know
 very well the policies the Forest Service and BLM use in map revising.
 Starting about 30 years ago all government agencies were directed to
 delete every archeological and historical site OFF the maps where ever
 possible. Old trails going to cliff dwellings and archeological sites
 were left off the maps starting in the late 70's. Trails were rerouted
 away from sites as well. Looting and mindless destruction of these
 sites were the reasons. One way to find these sites is to find OLD
 Forest Service maps from the 1940's to the 1960's. I collect these old
 maps for my area and it is unbelievable what has been left out.  In one
 map alone...when comparing to a modern map, over 300 archeological
 sites have been omitted!  I am not saying this is badand since the
 world has changed in a lot of bad ways it makes since.
 Best Wishes
 Michael Cottinghamhttp://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-histo
 ry

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[meteorite-list] AD - New Ureilite: NWA 5996

2010-11-04 Thread Peter Marmet

Hello All,

I'm happy to announce an unusual new Ureilite:  NWA 5996!

http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id41.html

Best,
Peter

Peter Marmet - IMCA #2747
Bern, Switzerland
http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/
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[meteorite-list] BLM and Forest Service Maps...

2010-11-04 Thread Chris Spratt

I would suggest that you have a pair of binoculars and a well thumbed 
bird guide book with you. Tell the wardens or
whomever you meet  that you are birdwatching. Birds are everywhere even 
in the desert (look up).  A few years I got stopped by Border Patrol 
along the California/ Mexico border. I told them I was birdwatching 
(which I was) and that was it. They wished me luck and departed - no 
lecture or admonishments. I could see the high black fence marking the 
border so I knew I was close to  a sensitive area. I once birded a 
county road in California (Calipatria area) where there was  a small 
pond/moat by a prison and nothing was done. Lots of ducks.  I always 
keep any eye open for funny rocks but my other aim is birdwatching. If 
you look like you are hunting for artifacts then you could be

questioned. As for maps try bookstores dealing in old books,maps etc.

Chris. Spratt
Victoria, BC
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[meteorite-list] AD - Park Forest House Hammer Display for sale

2010-11-04 Thread Greg Catterton

Hi to all, I hope everyone is doing well.
I am offering a very nice collectors set from the Winslow Street house that was 
hit by a meteorite hammer.

I made 60 individually numbered sets that include:
A fragment of the winslow street hammer stone meteorite 
A section of the exterior siding from the Winslow St House
A section of the foam insulation between the siding and plywood 
A section of the plywood from the Winslow St House
A Photo of the Winslow St House hit by the meteorite

Also included in the collection is an ID card and provenance/documentation 
package.

Each sample is assembled in a Riker style display case and individually 
numbered to 60. Thats it... only 60 will ever be made.

Here is an example photo of the collectors set:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF5585.jpg

Priced at only $80 each plus $5 for priority mail to anywhere in the USA, this 
is an awesome value. Not often do you get the chance to own impact artifacts 
from an important and well documented witnessed fall.
A similar set from the Garza house is currently listed on ebay for $250 and 
there was 200 of those made! 

#1 and #26 are not available. If you would like a certain number, please ask.

I dont think these will last long at this price, if you want one, you might 
want to pick it up soon.

Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites


  
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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

2010-11-04 Thread wahlperry


Hi Adam and List,

We can't tell you anything about locations. In  fact there are many 
more petroglyphs and over a hundred caves that are  not on;your maps 
and we can't tell you anything about.


This is for the protection and preservation of the native rock art and 
artifacts. I have photographed numerous locations only to return and to 
find the petroglyphs missing or destroyed. One area 20' by 20' 
 overhang / wall was covered with numerous carvings and removed by 
heavy equipment. At another location we found what looked to be a 
petroglyph of a man on a horse with one arm. This area was explored
by Major John Wesley Powell in 1869, the same fate could possible occur 
at this location if it was public knowledge.



I hope you were not in Oregon or Washington State when you talked to 
this BLM officer.  If you were, do not mention the word meteorites 
because they are now off limits there due them being considered 
treasure the last year.



I contacted BLM in Oregon at the first of year for a project that we 
were working on and was told it is ok to hunt for meteorites but you 
may need a permit. Today I contacted another BLM field office and was 
told by the BLM geologist  it should be the same law State to State.  
As in Nevada, you are allowed to collect up to 250 pounds of minerals, 
rock and invertebrate fossils a year on BLM-administered land. I should 
have more information by the middle of next week.



Sonny




-Original Message-
From: Adam Hupe lt;raremeteori...@yahoo.comgt;
To: Adam lt;meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comgt;
Sent: Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:10 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

Thomas 
wrote:***
*Last week I was walking along a dry lake bed and 
looked up to see the inevitable white truck parked next to mine. I 
walked back and had a  nice talk with a BLM officer. He was concerned 
that we were picking up artifacts, which we were not. My wife mentioned 
that we were going  to look for some petroglyphs and asked him about 
the roads in that  area. No Mam, he says. We can't tell you anything 
about locations. In  fact there are many more petroglyphs and over a 
hundred caves that are  not on your maps and we can't tell you anything 
about. Which makes me think that these locations must be a matter of 
record somewhere. Does the BLM have secret maps not available to the  
public?**
**I hope you were not in Oregon or Washington State 
when you talked to this BLM officer.  If you were, do not mention the 
word meteorites because they are now off limits there due them being 
considered treasure the last year.  The BLM field personal sure don't 
act like they are public servants and work for us in many cases.  It 
seems he could have been more helpful and offer some assistance since 
they work for you.  I found that they always seem to be secretive and 
avoid answering questions, especially in California where one lied to 
our group and told us we were hiking on radioactive soil.  I 
investigated his claims and found they were false after he managed to 
scare the hell out of all of us with the radio active nonsense.Best 
Regards,Adam__Visit the 
Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.htmlMeteorite-list 
mailing 
listmeteorite-l...@meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li

stinfo/meteorite-list
 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

2010-11-04 Thread Impactika

Hello Sonny, Paul, Adam,
 
When I am not dealing with meteorites, I am a member of the Archaeology 
Institute of America - Denver Chapter. Recently a professor of Archaeology from 
the University of Colorado gave us a presentation on the rock art, 
petroglypghs of the southwest that he had been studying for years, and he 
explained 
that he no longer tell anyone the exact locations of the sites he knows, he 
simply had seen too many vandalized with spray paint, or chiseled off, 
destroying whole sites.
 
Also you might remember a raid conducted in Blanding, south eastern Utah, 
last year that netted some 20 or more arrests and the recovery of room-fulls 
of artifacts of all kinds. Private collections? no, big business.
 
It should be a surprise to no one that rangers are asking more and more 
questions, and that the laws are being tightened.  
 
Anne M. Black
_http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) 
_impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) 
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
_http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) 
 
 
In a message dated 11/4/2010 4:14:30 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
wahlpe...@aol.com writes:
Hi Adam and List,

We can't tell you anything about locations. In  fact there are many 
more petroglyphs and over a hundred caves that are  not on;your maps 
and we can't tell you anything about.

This is for the protection and preservation of the native rock art and 
artifacts. I have photographed numerous locations only to return and to 
find the petroglyphs missing or destroyed. One area 20' by 20' 
overhang / wall was covered with numerous carvings and removed by 
heavy equipment. At another location we found what looked to be a 
petroglyph of a man on a horse with one arm. This area was explored
by Major John Wesley Powell in 1869, the same fate could possible occur 
at this location if it was public knowledge.

Sonny

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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

2010-11-04 Thread Greg Catterton

I think its a good thing for them to do also.
Too many wonderful areas end up ruined due to someone thinking they have a 
right to simply destroy or steal something that is amazing to many.
Pure greed and selfishness are the route of it.

I have been enjoying the links, pictures and discussions on this.

Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites


--- On Thu, 11/4/10, impact...@aol.com impact...@aol.com wrote:

 From: impact...@aol.com impact...@aol.com
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps
 To: wahlpe...@aol.com, raremeteori...@yahoo.com, 
 meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Thursday, November 4, 2010, 6:30 PM
 Hello Sonny, Paul, Adam,
  
 When I am not dealing with meteorites, I am a member of the
 Archaeology 
 Institute of America - Denver Chapter. Recently a professor
 of Archaeology from 
 the University of Colorado gave us a presentation on the
 rock art, 
 petroglypghs of the southwest that he had been studying for
 years, and he explained 
 that he no longer tell anyone the exact locations of the
 sites he knows, he 
 simply had seen too many vandalized with spray paint, or
 chiseled off, 
 destroying whole sites.
  
 Also you might remember a raid conducted in Blanding, south
 eastern Utah, 
 last year that netted some 20 or more arrests and the
 recovery of room-fulls 
 of artifacts of all kinds. Private collections? no, big
 business.
  
 It should be a surprise to no one that rangers are asking
 more and more 
 questions, and that the laws are being tightened.  
  
 Anne M. Black
 _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) 
 _impact...@aol.com_
 (mailto:impact...@aol.com)
 
 Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
 _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) 
  
  
 In a message dated 11/4/2010 4:14:30 PM Mountain Daylight
 Time, 
 wahlpe...@aol.com
 writes:
 Hi Adam and List,
 
 We can't tell you anything about locations. In 
 fact there are many 
 more petroglyphs and over a hundred caves that are 
 not on;your maps 
 and we can't tell you anything about.
 
 This is for the protection and preservation of the native
 rock art and 
 artifacts. I have photographed numerous locations only to
 return and to 
 find the petroglyphs missing or destroyed. One area 20' by
 20' 
 overhang / wall was covered with numerous carvings and
 removed by 
 heavy equipment. At another location we found what looked
 to be a 
 petroglyph of a man on a horse with one arm. This area was
 explored
 by Major John Wesley Powell in 1869, the same fate could
 possible occur 
 at this location if it was public knowledge.
 
 Sonny
 
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[meteorite-list] NASA EPOXI Flyby Reveals New Insights Into Comet Features


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-373  

NASA EPOXI Flyby Reveals New Insights Into Comet Features
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
November 04, 2010

PASADENA, Calif. - NASA's EPOXI mission spacecraft successfully flew
past comet Hartley 2 at 7 a.m. PDT (10 a.m. EDT) Thursday, Nov. 4.
Scientists say initial images from the flyby provide new information
about the comet's volume and material spewing from its surface.

Early observations of the comet show that, for the first time, we may
be able to connect activity to individual features on the nucleus, said
EPOXI Principal Investigator Michael A'Hearn of the University of
Maryland, College Park. We certainly have our hands full. The images
are full of great cometary data, and that's what we hoped for.

EPOXI is an extended mission that uses the already in-flight Deep Impact
spacecraft. Its encounter phase with Hartley 2 began at 1 p.m. PDT (4
p.m. EDT) on Nov. 3, when the spacecraft began to point its two imagers
at the comet's nucleus. Imaging of the nucleus began one hour later.

The spacecraft has provided the most extensive observations of a comet
in history, said Ed Weiler, associate administrator for NASA's Science
Mission Directorate at the agency's headquarters in Washington.
Scientists and engineers have successfully squeezed world-class science
from a re-purposed spacecraft at a fraction of the cost to taxpayers of
a new science project.

Images from the EPOXI mission reveal comet Hartley 2 to have 100 times
less volume than comet Tempel 1, the first target of Deep Impact. More
revelations about Hartley 2 are expected as analysis continues.

Initial estimates indicate the spacecraft was about 700 kilometers (435
miles) from the comet at the closest-approach point. That's almost the
exact distance that was calculated by engineers in advance of the flyby.

It is a testament to our team's skill that we nailed the flyby distance
to a comet that likes to move around the sky so much, said Tim Larson,
EPOXI project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena,
Calif. While it's great to see the images coming down, there is still
work to be done. We have another three weeks of imaging during our
outbound journey.

The name EPOXI is a combination of the names for the two extended
mission components: the Extrasolar Planet Observations and
Characterization (EPOCh), and the flyby of comet Hartley 2, called the
Deep Impact Extended Investigation (DIXI). The spacecraft has retained
the name Deep Impact. In 2005, Deep Impact successfully released an
impactor into the path of comet Tempel 1.

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute
of Technology, manages the EPOXI mission for NASA's Science Mission
Directorate. The spacecraft was built for NASA by Ball Aerospace 
Technologies Corp., in Boulder, Colo.

For more information about EPOXI, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/epoxi and
http://epoxi.umd.edu/.

For information about NASA and agency programs, visit: http://www.nasa.gov.

DC Agle 818-393-9011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
a...@jpl.nasa.gov

Trent J. Perrotto 202-358-0321
NASA Headquarters, Washington
trent.j.perro...@nasa.gov

Lee Tune 301-405-4679
University of Maryland, College Park
lt...@umd.edu

2010-373

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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

I agree that these heritage sites should be protected.  My only concern is how 
BLM field agents convey information.  They are public servants and should tell 
the truth.  If they do not know the laws, then they should simply state this 
instead of making things up.  I get a different message from every one I have 
talked to in regards to meteorite hunting.  Washington and Oregon are now 
definitely off limits and there are no permits for meteorite hunting available. 
This is a simple way to violet somebodies rights; Tell them they need a permit 
and then don't issue any.

This is a sore subject for me since I can no longer search on public lands in 
my 
ex-state of Washington Thus never achieving a goal I set.  Meteorites are now 
considered treasure and will be protected as such in some areas.  




Best Regards,

Adam
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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

2010-11-04 Thread Jeff Grossman

Although I agree that an outright ban on meteorite collecting is not the 
best policy, I fail to see what rights you think are being violated.  
Are you saying that people have a constitutional right to do anything 
and everything they want on federal lands without regulation?  I don't 
think this is a civil rights issue; it is a public land-use policy issue.


Jeff

On 2010-11-04 7:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

I agree that these heritage sites should be protected.  My only concern is how
BLM field agents convey information.  They are public servants and should tell
the truth.  If they do not know the laws, then they should simply state this
instead of making things up.  I get a different message from every one I have
talked to in regards to meteorite hunting.  Washington and Oregon are now
definitely off limits and there are no permits for meteorite hunting available.
This is a simple way to violet somebodies rights; Tell them they need a permit
and then don't issue any.

This is a sore subject for me since I can no longer search on public lands in my
ex-state of Washington Thus never achieving a goal I set.  Meteorites are now
considered treasure and will be protected as such in some areas.




Best Regards,

Adam
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--
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman   phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey  fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

2010-11-04 Thread Alexander Seidel

 It should be a surprise to no one that rangers are asking more and more 
 questions, and that the laws are being tightened.


I experienced the same thing on the Canarian island of Lanzarote recently, 
where I talked to several rangers of the National Park there about the means of 
protection of the (volcanic) islands natural treasures. They had their very own 
but anyway true arguments (...if everyone of the about 2 mio annual tourists 
here on the island would take away just one bigger olivine stone, what would 
you think this island would look like in just a couple of years?). I can 
understand that. 

So always be careful what you do, and know the rules in the fields. In our 
lifes we are here only for a couple of decades, but natural things need to be 
preserved. With our lifes we have different, much smaller scales of time than 
nature has to develop, which has always to be kept in mind.

Alex 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

And being that it is federal public land, we have the right to remove 250 lbs 
of 
rocks a year without a permit. Anything that hinders this right goes against 
the 
laws our legislators set forth.  Requiring a permit in Washinton and Oregon is 
a 
clear design on our liberty.

***


Collecting Limits
Collecting rocks for landscaping and other  personal uses is allowed without a 
permit, as long as the use is non  commercial and no mechanized equipment is 
used (other than a car or  pickup truck). A permit is not needed if you limit 
your collecting 25  pounds plus one piece per day, not to exceed 250 pounds in 
one calendar  year, and no specimen greater than 250 pounds may be collected 
without a  special permit. The material must be for personal use only and shall 
 

not be sold or bartered to commercial dealers. Taking rock from  stockpiles is 
not allowed.
**



Link to BLM Site:
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/elcentro/recreation/rocks.html


Happy hunting while you still can,

Adam







- Original Message 
From: Jeff Grossman jgross...@usgs.gov
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 4:24:11 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

Although I agree that an outright ban on meteorite collecting is not the 
best policy, I fail to see what rights you think are being violated.  
Are you saying that people have a constitutional right to do anything 
and everything they want on federal lands without regulation?  I don't 
think this is a civil rights issue; it is a public land-use policy issue.

Jeff

On 2010-11-04 7:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
 I agree that these heritage sites should be protected.  My only concern is how
 BLM field agents convey information.  They are public servants and should tell
 the truth.  If they do not know the laws, then they should simply state this
 instead of making things up.  I get a different message from every one I have
 talked to in regards to meteorite hunting.  Washington and Oregon are now
 definitely off limits and there are no permits for meteorite hunting 
available.
 This is a simple way to violet somebodies rights; Tell them they need a permit
 and then don't issue any.

 This is a sore subject for me since I can no longer search on public lands in 
my
 ex-state of Washington Thus never achieving a goal I set.  Meteorites are now
 considered treasure and will be protected as such in some areas.




 Best Regards,

 Adam
 __
 Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman   phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey  fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


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[meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - November 3, 2010



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
November 3, 2010

o Channel and Fan in Lyot Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_019372_2300

o Fading Impact Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_019482_2135

o Sand Dunes in Rabe Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_002824_1355

o Slope Streaks in Marte Vallis
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_003570_1915

o Gullies South of Terra Sirenum
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_004044_1165

o Growing Pits in the South Polar Ice Cap
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_004053_0940

All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.

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Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2

2010-11-04 Thread Sterling K. Webb


Re: the effects of outgassing jets on a comet's orbit.

Fred Whipple was the first to work out how the
dynamic effects of outgassing (jets) affected the orbit
of a comet, right after he proposed the icy snowball
model of comets (replacing the XIXth century flying
gravel bank model, which today is the rubble pile
model).

I can't find his paper on it, but I recall that he first
applied it successfully to the irregularities in the
orbit of Cemet Enke, for which the position of the
biggest jet observed at that time was known).

Whipple's general idea can be found here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Fo-GY4J1h4cCpg=PA242lpg=PA242dq=whipple+comet+jetssource=blots=qOBQ9JRGUksig=nvwqERqQ_16nU0J76zG4uKnS00Ahl=enei=W0nTTLiRCof0sgarl7j6DAsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=1sqi=2ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepageq=whipple%20comet%20jetsf=false
on page 242.


Sterling K. Webb
---
- Original Message - 
From: Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu

To: MeteorList meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2


The outgassing does affect the orbit, but the actual impact is very 
small. The actual mass loss is tiny compared with the entire mass of 
the nucleus, and the material velocity is low.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net
To: Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com; MeteorList 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2



Gary and List,

Thank you for the post, Big Kahuna. Anybody know if all that 
outgassing imparts any thrust to the comet... and if so would it 
affect its orbit?


Count Deiro


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[meteorite-list] hammer well almost

2010-11-04 Thread drtanuki

Smithville man almost hit by meteorite
WKRN Nashville Thu, 04 Nov 2010 16:54 PM PDT
Jimmy Duncan was nearly hit by a meteorite in August as it fell from the sky.   
sorry I lost the url
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Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2

2010-11-04 Thread Sterling K. Webb


As soon as you say say you can't find something
on the internet, you find it. Whipple's original paper
is in the bibliography of this paper which summarizes
the dynamic effects of ourgassing jets on the orbit:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1981A%26A98...45W
On the outgassing and jet thrust of snowball comets, by
M. K. Wallis  A. K. MacPherson, in Astronomy and
Astrophysics, vol. 98, no. 1, May 1981, p. 45-49.
A downloadable PDF.


Sterling K. Webb
--
- Original Message - 
From: Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu

To: MeteorList meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2


The outgassing does affect the orbit, but the actual impact is very 
small. The actual mass loss is tiny compared with the entire mass of 
the nucleus, and the material velocity is low.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net
To: Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com; MeteorList 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EPOXI images of Comet Hartley 2



Gary and List,

Thank you for the post, Big Kahuna. Anybody know if all that 
outgassing imparts any thrust to the comet... and if so would it 
affect its orbit?


Count Deiro


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[meteorite-list] Smithville man almost hit by meteorite

2010-11-04 Thread Thunder Stone


Take a look

Greg S.


http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=13448872


Smithville man almost hit by meteorite


SMITHVILLE, Tenn. – A Smithville man witnessed something only 1,000 people have 
ever experienced.

In August, while walking down the street in Smithville, Jimmy Duncan and his 
girlfriend, heard and then found a meteorite

My girlfriend and I were walking down the street and we heard an awful 
whistle, he recalled.  We looked around to see and all of a sudden, I heard a 
thump.

The meteorite had hit the asphalt pavement, left a hole and then bounced onto 
the sidewalk.

Duncan knew what it was, but had no idea how rare his experience actually was.

Of all the meteorite findings around the world, just over 1,000 cases are 
called falls or situations where people witness the meteorite hitting the 
earth.

It missed me by about 10 feet, Duncan said.

He brought the meteorite to the Tennessee Department of Geological Studies 
where State Geologist Ron Zurawski almost confirmed what Duncan already knew.  
It is a meteorite.

It's a bit of material left over from when the solar system was formed, 
Zurawski explained.  In this case, it is several billion years old, about the 
same age as the earth, which is four and a half billion years old.

Duncan is a self-employed painter, whose business had slowed down to the point 
he is struggling to make ends meet.

He plans to sell the meteorite after he figures out how much it is worth.
  
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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

2010-11-04 Thread Jeff Grossman

Vertebrate fossils are also rocks.  So are petroglyphs and many other 
cultural artifacts.  Do you protest regulations prohibiting their 
collection?  I understand your frustration, but you have to keep things 
in perspective.  This is not a question of rights.  It is a question of 
regulation.  I praise BLM officials for recognizing that meteorites are 
distinct from ordinary rocks in the same way that these other materials 
are.  The community should have the goal of working with federal 
agencies to promote sensible regulations.


Jeff

On 2010-11-04 7:35 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

And being that it is federal public land, we have the right to remove 250 lbs of
rocks a year without a permit. Anything that hinders this right goes against the
laws our legislators set forth.  Requiring a permit in Washinton and Oregon is a
clear design on our liberty.

***


Collecting Limits
Collecting rocks for landscaping and other  personal uses is allowed without a
permit, as long as the use is non  commercial and no mechanized equipment is
used (other than a car or  pickup truck). A permit is not needed if you limit
your collecting 25  pounds plus one piece per day, not to exceed 250 pounds in
one calendar  year, and no specimen greater than 250 pounds may be collected
without a  special permit. The material must be for personal use only and shall

not be sold or bartered to commercial dealers. Taking rock from  stockpiles is
not allowed.
**



Link to BLM Site:
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/elcentro/recreation/rocks.html


Happy hunting while you still can,

Adam







- Original Message 
From: Jeff Grossmanjgross...@usgs.gov
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 4:24:11 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

Although I agree that an outright ban on meteorite collecting is not the
best policy, I fail to see what rights you think are being violated.
Are you saying that people have a constitutional right to do anything
and everything they want on federal lands without regulation?  I don't
think this is a civil rights issue; it is a public land-use policy issue.

Jeff

On 2010-11-04 7:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

I agree that these heritage sites should be protected.  My only concern is how
BLM field agents convey information.  They are public servants and should tell
the truth.  If they do not know the laws, then they should simply state this
instead of making things up.  I get a different message from every one I have
talked to in regards to meteorite hunting.  Washington and Oregon are now
definitely off limits and there are no permits for meteorite hunting

available.

This is a simple way to violet somebodies rights; Tell them they need a permit
and then don't issue any.

This is a sore subject for me since I can no longer search on public lands in
my
ex-state of Washington Thus never achieving a goal I set.  Meteorites are now
considered treasure and will be protected as such in some areas.




Best Regards,

Adam
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--
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman   phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey  fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

2010-11-04 Thread Jason Utas

Adam, All,
I don't understand the hypocrisy of your agreeing to the 250 lb per
year maximum, while crying 'foul' at stricter laws being imposed by
different branches of our government.

If you were arguing about the right and wrong of collecting meteorites
and other rocks from a moral standpoint, the number is a purely
arbitrary one.  As a rights issue, the fact that the law is there in
any way, shape, or form, inhibiting your right to collect rocks on
public land, is paramount.  Either you should be allowed to collect
what you want to -- or you shouldn't.

This is why:

For us meteorite hunters, by and large, the law is entirely
irrelevant.  I'm probably never going to find a meteorite that weighs
more than a few kilograms, even if I go to a known strewn field with
large meteorites laying around.  Even then, the BLM doesn't seem to
care when meteorites like the Glorietta Mountain main mass are removed
from federal land, so...I guess it doesn't matter either way.  As long
as you don't do something stupid like going to the Smithsonian with
your three tonne iron, you should be fine.
So the fact that the BLM restricts collecting more than 250 lbs of
rocks per year means literally nothing to me.

Which is why, I think, you're in favor of the 250 lb restriction that
the BLM used to (or does still) have in place, regarding meteorites.

But what if you were to happen upon the next Old Woman, and the
government actually pursued their rightful ownership (as per existing
laws)?  Right now, you apparently support the 250 lb BLM limit.  But
the next time either one of us goes hunting, we might have a damn good
reason to fight that law tooth and nail.

Yet there are more problems.  Think about this from a scientific point
of view; why is a 1 tonne meteorite scientifically more important than
a ten gram one?  Well, this is where meteorites start to differ from
minerals.  Generally speaking, if you find a single mineral specimen
out in the desert, it's not going to be of great scientific interest,
and you probably wouldn't do much damage to the surrounding terrain if
you were to pocket it and take it home.  If you were to find a deposit
of something rare or interesting, it would be a very different matter.

If you find a small meteorite out in the desert...well, take, for
example, my tiny Acapulcoite.  I don't know if one could say that it
is more important than your average 250 lb meteorite, but I would
like to point out that there have been many meteorites found in this
country that have weighed more than 250 lbs - but there is only one
other Acapulcoite.
If rarity is what defines scientific importance, size is of little
consequence.  After all, Steve Arnold's 1,400 lb Brenham may be
impressive, and a spectacular example of a pallasite/meteorite in
general, but it has contributed next to nothing of our knowledge of
meteorites or understanding of the solar system.  The Acfer 094
meteorite, on the other hand - that's important, primitive stuff that
contains presolar grains, etc.  It's helping us understand what was
going on ~4.6 billion years ago.
So, with regard to meteorites, size really isn't what makes them
important.  Hence a 250 lb restriction is essentially worthless
with regards to space rocks.

Now, if the law was intended to preserve the landscape by preventing
commercial mining endeavors...that's not going to happen with
meteorites, because that's not how they're found.  Even the removal of
a huge iron like the Old Woman...well, it returned the landscape to
what it should have looked like before a large, alien piece of iron
happened to fall there.  So that aspect of it doesn't really apply.

But along that line - 250 lb maximum is as arbitrary as any law.
What if they had originally stated that you could collect a tonne?
Ten kilograms?  Nothing?  It's arbitrary.

Based on what you've said, and I'll quote, We have the right to
remove 250 lbs of
rocks a year without a permit. Anything that hinders this right goes against the
laws our legislators set forth.

If the original law had stated that you were not allowed to collect
any rocks, I assume that you would go along with it without complaint,
because that would be 'the law our legislators set forth.'

So if you're not talking about your right to collect anything you
want on public land, but are rather arguing about your right to
collect up to 250 lbs of mineral specimens per year, as dictated by a
law, we have to look at things differently.  You seem to be
questioning the right of the BLM to set rules and regulations
regarding the land which it has been given to oversee.

I think the BLM has that right.  If you disagree, I assume that you
would question the legitimacy of their imposing *any* regulations on
the land they oversee, since there's no reason to single this one rule
out...except personal interest, of course.

If you think it's an issue, what I would suggest is going to
Washington (state), finding a meteorite, and then seeing if the BLM
will try to

Re: [meteorite-list] Smithville man almost hit by meteorite

Question: How do you almost confirm something?

Perhaps they should all research more about meteorites.

Eric

On 11/4/2010 5:34 PM, Thunder Stone wrote:

Take a look

Greg S.

http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=13448872

Smithville man almost hit by meteorite

SMITHVILLE, Tenn. – A Smithville man witnessed something only 1,000 people have
ever experienced.

In August, while walking down the street in Smithville, Jimmy Duncan and his
girlfriend, heard and then found a meteorite

My girlfriend and I were walking down the street and we heard an awful whistle, he
recalled. We looked around to see and all of a sudden, I heard a thump.

The meteorite had hit the asphalt pavement, left a hole and then bounced onto
the sidewalk.

Duncan knew what it was, but had no idea how rare his experience actually was.

Of all the meteorite findings around the world, just over 1,000 cases are called
falls or situations where people witness the meteorite hitting the earth.

It missed me by about 10 feet, Duncan said.

He brought the meteorite to the Tennessee Department of Geological Studies
where State Geologist Ron Zurawski almost confirmed what Duncan already knew.
It is a meteorite.

It's a bit of material left over from when the solar system was formed, Zurawski
explained. In this case, it is several billion years old, about the same age as the earth,
which is four and a half billion years old.

Duncan is a self-employed painter, whose business had slowed down to the point
he is struggling to make ends meet.

He plans to sell the meteorite after he figures out how much it is worth.

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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

I agree that other things can be formed or made from rock material.  These are 
more than adequately covered under current law.  I also agree that it would be 
wise to work with (educate) BLM field agents in order for them to tell the 
difference between raw rocks from fossils and artifacts.  There is no 
distinction written in the current laws that differentiates between 
extraterrestrial or terrestrial rocks so these should be of no concern to field 
agents unless more than 250 lbs is collected. No more legislation is necessary. 
 
It is also equally clear that if an artifact is made from a meteorite (a type 
of 
rock), it should be left on the ground.  Now if vertebrate fossils were found 
in 
a meteorite, then maybe new laws should be written.

Best Regards,

Adam





- Original Message 
From: Jeff Grossman jgross...@usgs.gov
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 6:03:26 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

Vertebrate fossils are also rocks.  So are petroglyphs and many other 
cultural artifacts.  Do you protest regulations prohibiting their 
collection?  I understand your frustration, but you have to keep things 
in perspective.  This is not a question of rights.  It is a question of 
regulation.  I praise BLM officials for recognizing that meteorites are 
distinct from ordinary rocks in the same way that these other materials 
are.  The community should have the goal of working with federal 
agencies to promote sensible regulations.

Jeff

On 2010-11-04 7:35 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
 And being that it is federal public land, we have the right to remove 250 lbs 
of
 rocks a year without a permit. Anything that hinders this right goes against 
the
 laws our legislators set forth.  Requiring a permit in Washinton and Oregon 
 is 
a
 clear design on our liberty.

***
*


 Collecting Limits
 Collecting rocks for landscaping and other  personal uses is allowed without a
 permit, as long as the use is non  commercial and no mechanized equipment is
 used (other than a car or  pickup truck). A permit is not needed if you limit
 your collecting 25  pounds plus one piece per day, not to exceed 250 pounds in
 one calendar  year, and no specimen greater than 250 pounds may be collected
 without a  special permit. The material must be for personal use only and 
shall

 not be sold or bartered to commercial dealers. Taking rock from  stockpiles is
 not allowed.
**
*



 Link to BLM Site:
 http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/elcentro/recreation/rocks.html


 Happy hunting while you still can,

 Adam







 - Original Message 
 From: Jeff Grossmanjgross...@usgs.gov
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 4:24:11 PM
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

 Although I agree that an outright ban on meteorite collecting is not the
 best policy, I fail to see what rights you think are being violated.
 Are you saying that people have a constitutional right to do anything
 and everything they want on federal lands without regulation?  I don't
 think this is a civil rights issue; it is a public land-use policy issue.

 Jeff

 On 2010-11-04 7:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
 I agree that these heritage sites should be protected.  My only concern is 
how
 BLM field agents convey information.  They are public servants and should 
tell
 the truth.  If they do not know the laws, then they should simply state this
 instead of making things up.  I get a different message from every one I have
 talked to in regards to meteorite hunting.  Washington and Oregon are now
 definitely off limits and there are no permits for meteorite hunting
 available.
 This is a simple way to violet somebodies rights; Tell them they need a 
permit
 and then don't issue any.

 This is a sore subject for me since I can no longer search on public lands in
 my
 ex-state of Washington Thus never achieving a goal I set.  Meteorites are now
 considered treasure and will be protected as such in some areas.




 Best Regards,

 Adam
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-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman   phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey  fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


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Re: [meteorite-list] Smithville man almost hit by meteorite

2010-11-04 Thread Jason Utas

Hello All,
The meteorite photographed looks like a small, weathered iron
meteorite that has been wire-brushed.
Seeing as the finder, Duncan, is a self-employed painter, whose
business had slowed down to the point he is struggling to make ends
meet, and who is indeed planning to sell his rock, as per the
article, I'd say this is likely just another hoax.
Regards,
Jason



On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:11 PM, Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote:
 Question: How do you almost confirm something?

 Perhaps they should all research more about meteorites.

 Eric

 On 11/4/2010 5:34 PM, Thunder Stone wrote:

 Take a look

 Greg S.


 http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=13448872


 Smithville man almost hit by meteorite


 SMITHVILLE, Tenn. – A Smithville man witnessed something only 1,000 people
 have ever experienced.

 In August, while walking down the street in Smithville, Jimmy Duncan and
 his girlfriend, heard and then found a meteorite

 My girlfriend and I were walking down the street and we heard an awful
 whistle, he recalled.  We looked around to see and all of a sudden, I
 heard a thump.

 The meteorite had hit the asphalt pavement, left a hole and then bounced
 onto the sidewalk.

 Duncan knew what it was, but had no idea how rare his experience actually
 was.

 Of all the meteorite findings around the world, just over 1,000 cases are
 called falls or situations where people witness the meteorite hitting the
 earth.

 It missed me by about 10 feet, Duncan said.

 He brought the meteorite to the Tennessee Department of Geological Studies
 where State Geologist Ron Zurawski almost confirmed what Duncan already
 knew.  It is a meteorite.

 It's a bit of material left over from when the solar system was formed,
 Zurawski explained.  In this case, it is several billion years old, about
 the same age as the earth, which is four and a half billion years old.

 Duncan is a self-employed painter, whose business had slowed down to the
 point he is struggling to make ends meet.

 He plans to sell the meteorite after he figures out how much it is worth.

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 http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

Jason,

I have no idea what you are getting at but simply said, I do not have to agree 
with a law in order to abide by it.  Breaking laws will do no good and could 
result in all land becoming off limits which is nearly the case with treasure 
hunting.  Without weight limits for rock hounds, somebody could remove an 
entire 
outcrop, like the Alamo breccia for instance, and build an mansion with it.  
Then they could go back and build a rock fence around the 800 acre property 
leaving very little for other hobbyists.


Best Regards,

Adam



- Original Message 
From: Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com
To: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 6:04:56 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

Adam, All,
I don't understand the hypocrisy of your agreeing to the 250 lb per
year maximum, while crying 'foul' at stricter laws being imposed by
different branches of our government.

If you were arguing about the right and wrong of collecting meteorites
and other rocks from a moral standpoint, the number is a purely
arbitrary one.  As a rights issue, the fact that the law is there in
any way, shape, or form, inhibiting your right to collect rocks on
public land, is paramount.  Either you should be allowed to collect
what you want to -- or you shouldn't.

This is why:

For us meteorite hunters, by and large, the law is entirely
irrelevant.  I'm probably never going to find a meteorite that weighs
more than a few kilograms, even if I go to a known strewn field with
large meteorites laying around.  Even then, the BLM doesn't seem to
care when meteorites like the Glorietta Mountain main mass are removed
from federal land, so...I guess it doesn't matter either way.  As long
as you don't do something stupid like going to the Smithsonian with
your three tonne iron, you should be fine.
So the fact that the BLM restricts collecting more than 250 lbs of
rocks per year means literally nothing to me.

Which is why, I think, you're in favor of the 250 lb restriction that
the BLM used to (or does still) have in place, regarding meteorites.

But what if you were to happen upon the next Old Woman, and the
government actually pursued their rightful ownership (as per existing
laws)?  Right now, you apparently support the 250 lb BLM limit.  But
the next time either one of us goes hunting, we might have a damn good
reason to fight that law tooth and nail.

Yet there are more problems.  Think about this from a scientific point
of view; why is a 1 tonne meteorite scientifically more important than
a ten gram one?  Well, this is where meteorites start to differ from
minerals.  Generally speaking, if you find a single mineral specimen
out in the desert, it's not going to be of great scientific interest,
and you probably wouldn't do much damage to the surrounding terrain if
you were to pocket it and take it home.  If you were to find a deposit
of something rare or interesting, it would be a very different matter.

If you find a small meteorite out in the desert...well, take, for
example, my tiny Acapulcoite.  I don't know if one could say that it
is more important than your average 250 lb meteorite, but I would
like to point out that there have been many meteorites found in this
country that have weighed more than 250 lbs - but there is only one
other Acapulcoite.
If rarity is what defines scientific importance, size is of little
consequence.  After all, Steve Arnold's 1,400 lb Brenham may be
impressive, and a spectacular example of a pallasite/meteorite in
general, but it has contributed next to nothing of our knowledge of
meteorites or understanding of the solar system.  The Acfer 094
meteorite, on the other hand - that's important, primitive stuff that
contains presolar grains, etc.  It's helping us understand what was
going on ~4.6 billion years ago.
So, with regard to meteorites, size really isn't what makes them
important.  Hence a 250 lb restriction is essentially worthless
with regards to space rocks.

Now, if the law was intended to preserve the landscape by preventing
commercial mining endeavors...that's not going to happen with
meteorites, because that's not how they're found.  Even the removal of
a huge iron like the Old Woman...well, it returned the landscape to
what it should have looked like before a large, alien piece of iron
happened to fall there.  So that aspect of it doesn't really apply.

But along that line - 250 lb maximum is as arbitrary as any law.
What if they had originally stated that you could collect a tonne?
Ten kilograms?  Nothing?  It's arbitrary.

Based on what you've said, and I'll quote, We have the right to
remove 250 lbs of
rocks a year without a permit. Anything that hinders this right goes against the
laws our legislators set forth.

If the original law had stated that you were not allowed to collect
any rocks, I assume that you would go along with it without complaint,
because that would be 'the law our legislators set forth.'

So if you're

Re: [meteorite-list] Smithville man almost hit by meteorite

2010-11-04 Thread Stuart McDaniel


Wow, looks like an iron!!


Stuart McDaniel
Lawndale, NC
Secretary,
Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society
- Original Message - 
From: Thunder Stone stanleygr...@hotmail.com

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:34 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Smithville man almost hit by meteorite



Take a look

Greg S.


http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=13448872


Smithville man almost hit by meteorite


SMITHVILLE, Tenn. – A Smithville man witnessed something only 1,000 people 
have ever experienced.


In August, while walking down the street in Smithville, Jimmy Duncan and his 
girlfriend, heard and then found a meteorite


My girlfriend and I were walking down the street and we heard an awful 
whistle, he recalled. We looked around to see and all of a sudden, I heard 
a thump.


The meteorite had hit the asphalt pavement, left a hole and then bounced 
onto the sidewalk.


Duncan knew what it was, but had no idea how rare his experience actually 
was.


Of all the meteorite findings around the world, just over 1,000 cases are 
called falls or situations where people witness the meteorite hitting the 
earth.


It missed me by about 10 feet, Duncan said.

He brought the meteorite to the Tennessee Department of Geological Studies 
where State Geologist Ron Zurawski almost confirmed what Duncan already 
knew. It is a meteorite.


It's a bit of material left over from when the solar system was formed, 
Zurawski explained. In this case, it is several billion years old, about 
the same age as the earth, which is four and a half billion years old.


Duncan is a self-employed painter, whose business had slowed down to the 
point he is struggling to make ends meet.


He plans to sell the meteorite after he figures out how much it is worth.

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[meteorite-list] Recently Discovered Letter Sheds Light on 1858 Ausson Meteorite Fall

2010-11-04 Thread Mark Grossman


Hi,

If you would like to learn of an interesting letter written by the professor 
who helped remove the Ausson meteorite out of the ground, check the latest 
posting on my blog.


You can see the posting at:

http://meteoritemanuscripts.blogspot.com

You can also follow me on twitter as well at:

http://twitter.com/MetManuscripts

Thanks!

Mark

Mark Grossman
Briarcliff Manor, NY
USA



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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps


I can't not say something on this.

It is ABSOLUTELY about rights *and* the law. I do *NOT* praise the BLM. 
I do however support them for their protection of *our* land. In that 
they do a good job, and I'm thankful for the agencies effort on that 
part. Aside from the infringement of the rights of the people to hunt, 
recover, keep and collect meteorites on federal land course. And I agree 
that YES the community should work with federal agencies to promote 
SENSIBLE regulation as long as that regulation doesn't infringe on the 
rights of the citizen to recover and collect meteorites legally on 
federal land. Just as people should follow the regulations of the land, 
those who regulate should not misinterpret a law for their own gain 
either. It goes both ways.


Their use of the 1906 Antiquities Act is a misinterpretation of a law 
that was NOT designed to protect meteorites. It was singed into law by 
President Theodore Roosevelt to protect archeological sites and 
artifacts from looters.


This law has, and is still now being used to seize meteorites found 
legally on federal land by the people. That is an unarguable fact.


Artifacts are made by humans. Period.
Meteorites are NOT artifacts
Unless formed into an artifact by a HUMAN A meteorite is just a ROCK 
(albeit an interesting one)

Certain Fossils are protected by specific Fossil laws
Certain Artifacts are protected by specific Artifact laws
Rocks are NOT fossils.
Fossils are rocks and there's an OBVIOUS distinction between the two.
Meteorites are rocks NOT Fossils.
Rocks are Minerals
Meteorites are Minerals
There are laws in place which govern minerals

There are no laws which govern meteorites directly. Only a 
misinterpreted law used to aquire and seize scientifically important and 
interesting objects. Almost anything can be considered an object, and 
anyone can claim something is interesting scientifically. This law is 
VAGUE and hugely broad in scope with regard to meteorites. In fact it 
does not mention meteorites at all. Which is why this bogus 
interpretation infringes on the rights of the US citizen to hunt and 
recover meteorites on federal land.


Agencies, scientists, hunters, private researchers, institutions and 
collectors all, CAN work together to come to a reasonable and sensible 
cooperative arrangement.


Share! Everyone can have their fair share... Science doesn't need it 
all, the government doesn't need it all, and the hunter doesn't need it 
all.


It's like kids on a playground fighting over the ball. The biggest bully 
kids usually gets it and the teacher never sees...


I'm not exactly one for more laws or regulation, frankly I think there's 
too much and it complicates things. The solution is very simple.


Stop all the CRAP and SHARE!

Regards,
Eric


On 11/4/2010 6:18 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

I agree that other things can be formed or made from rock material.  These are
more than adequately covered under current law.  I also agree that it would be
wise to work with (educate) BLM field agents in order for them to tell the
difference between raw rocks from fossils and artifacts.  There is no
distinction written in the current laws that differentiates between
extraterrestrial or terrestrial rocks so these should be of no concern to field
agents unless more than 250 lbs is collected. No more legislation is necessary.
It is also equally clear that if an artifact is made from a meteorite (a type of
rock), it should be left on the ground.  Now if vertebrate fossils were found in
a meteorite, then maybe new laws should be written.

Best Regards,

Adam





- Original Message 
From: Jeff Grossmanjgross...@usgs.gov
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 6:03:26 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

Vertebrate fossils are also rocks.  So are petroglyphs and many other
cultural artifacts.  Do you protest regulations prohibiting their
collection?  I understand your frustration, but you have to keep things
in perspective.  This is not a question of rights.  It is a question of
regulation.  I praise BLM officials for recognizing that meteorites are
distinct from ordinary rocks in the same way that these other materials
are.  The community should have the goal of working with federal
agencies to promote sensible regulations.

Jeff

On 2010-11-04 7:35 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
   

And being that it is federal public land, we have the right to remove 250 lbs
of
rocks a year without a permit. Anything that hinders this right goes against
the
laws our legislators set forth.  Requiring a permit in Washinton and Oregon is
a
clear design on our liberty.

***
*


Collecting Limits
Collecting rocks for landscaping and other  personal uses is allowed without a
permit, as long as the use is non  commercial and no mechanized equipment is
used (other than a car or  pickup truck). A permit is not needed if you limit
your

Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

2010-11-04 Thread Jeff Grossman


Adam and all,

Help me out in my research here.  I'm not able to find the Collecting 
rocks for landscaping... quote in the Code of Federal Regulations at 
all.  However, this is in CFR Title 43, in the BLM section, meaning it 
has the effect of law.


Sec. 8365.1-5  Property and resources.

(a) On all public lands, unless otherwise authorized, no person
shall;
(1) Willfully deface, disturb, remove or destroy any personal
property, or structures, or any scientific, cultural, archaeological or
historic resource, natural object or area;
(2) Willfully deface, remove or destroy plants or their parts, soil,
rocks or minerals, or cave resources, except as permitted under
paragraph (b) or (c) of this paragraph; or
(3) Use on the public lands explosive, motorized or mechanical
devices, except metal detectors, to aid in the collection of specimens
permitted under paragraph (b) or (c) of this paragraph.
(b) Except on developed recreation sites and areas, or where
otherwise prohibited and posted, it is permissible to collect from the
public lands reasonable amounts of the following for noncommercial
purposes:
(1) Commonly available renewable resources such as flowers, berries,
nuts, seeds, cones and leaves;
(2) Nonrenewable resources such as rocks, mineral specimens, common
invertebrate fossils and semiprecious gemstones;
(3) Petrified wood as provided under subpart 3622 of this title;
(4) Mineral materials as provided under subpart 3604; and
(5) Forest products for use in campfires on the public lands. Other
collection of forest products shall be in accordance with the provisions
of Group 5500 of this title.
(c) The collection of renewable or nonrenewable resources from the
public lands for sale or barter to commercial dealers may be done only
after obtaining a contract or permit from an authorized officer in
accordance with part 3600 or 5400 of this chapter.

[48 FR 36384, Aug. 10, 1983; 67 FR 68778, Nov. 13, 2002]

I would say that meteorites are covered under section (a)(1) as 
objects/resources of scientific interest.  It seems possible to me that 
Adam's quotation derives from a BLM attempt to define reasonable 
amounts of rocks under (b)(2).  But I would argue that this section 
doesn't apply to meteorites at all due to their coverage under (a)(1).


I am an amateur at reading laws and regs.  Somebody correct me if I am 
wrong.


Jeff


On 2010-11-04 7:35 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

And being that it is federal public land, we have the right to remove 250 lbs of
rocks a year without a permit. Anything that hinders this right goes against the
laws our legislators set forth.  Requiring a permit in Washinton and Oregon is a
clear design on our liberty.

***


Collecting Limits
Collecting rocks for landscaping and other  personal uses is allowed without a
permit, as long as the use is non  commercial and no mechanized equipment is
used (other than a car or  pickup truck). A permit is not needed if you limit
your collecting 25  pounds plus one piece per day, not to exceed 250 pounds in
one calendar  year, and no specimen greater than 250 pounds may be collected
without a  special permit. The material must be for personal use only and shall

not be sold or bartered to commercial dealers. Taking rock from  stockpiles is
not allowed.
**



Link to BLM Site:
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/elcentro/recreation/rocks.html


Happy hunting while you still can,

Adam







- Original Message 
From: Jeff Grossmanjgross...@usgs.gov
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 4:24:11 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

Although I agree that an outright ban on meteorite collecting is not the
best policy, I fail to see what rights you think are being violated.
Are you saying that people have a constitutional right to do anything
and everything they want on federal lands without regulation?  I don't
think this is a civil rights issue; it is a public land-use policy issue.

Jeff

On 2010-11-04 7:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

I agree that these heritage sites should be protected.  My only concern is how
BLM field agents convey information.  They are public servants and should tell
the truth.  If they do not know the laws, then they should simply state this
instead of making things up.  I get a different message from every one I have
talked to in regards to meteorite hunting.  Washington and Oregon are now
definitely off limits and there are no permits for meteorite hunting

available.

This is a simple way to violet somebodies rights; Tell them they need a permit
and then don't issue any.

This is a sore subject for me since I can no longer search on public lands in
my
ex-state of Washington Thus never achieving a goal I set.  Meteorites are now
considered treasure and will be protected as such

Re: [meteorite-list] Smithville man almost hit by meteorite

2010-11-04 Thread Melanie Matthews

Looks like an Nantan. 

 ---
-Melanie
IMCA: 2975
eBay: metmel2775
Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09

I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7.



- Original Message 
From: Stuart McDaniel actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com
To: Thunder Stone stanleygr...@hotmail.com; 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 6:46:46 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Smithville man almost hit by meteorite

Wow, looks like an iron!!


Stuart McDaniel
Lawndale, NC
Secretary,
Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society
- Original Message - From: Thunder Stone stanleygr...@hotmail.com
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 8:34 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Smithville man almost hit by meteorite



Take a look

Greg S.


http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=13448872


Smithville man almost hit by meteorite


SMITHVILLE, Tenn. – A Smithville man witnessed something only 1,000 people have 
ever experienced.

In August, while walking down the street in Smithville, Jimmy Duncan and his 
girlfriend, heard and then found a meteorite

My girlfriend and I were walking down the street and we heard an awful 
whistle, he recalled. We looked around to see and all of a sudden, I heard a 
thump.

The meteorite had hit the asphalt pavement, left a hole and then bounced onto 
the sidewalk.

Duncan knew what it was, but had no idea how rare his experience actually was.

Of all the meteorite findings around the world, just over 1,000 cases are 
called 
falls or situations where people witness the meteorite hitting the earth.

It missed me by about 10 feet, Duncan said.

He brought the meteorite to the Tennessee Department of Geological Studies 
where 
State Geologist Ron Zurawski almost confirmed what Duncan already knew. It is a 
meteorite.

It's a bit of material left over from when the solar system was formed, 
Zurawski explained. In this case, it is several billion years old, about the 
same age as the earth, which is four and a half billion years old.

Duncan is a self-employed painter, whose business had slowed down to the point 
he is struggling to make ends meet.

He plans to sell the meteorite after he figures out how much it is worth.

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Re: [meteorite-list] Recently Discovered Letter Sheds Light on 1858Ausson Meteorite Fall

2010-11-04 Thread Mike Bandli

Stunning piece of meteorite history! This is the very thing many of us
historic folks dream of discovering. Congrats, Mark. A true gem!


Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
and join us on Facebook:
www.facebook.com/Meteorites1
IMCA #5765

 

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Grossman
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 6:57 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Recently Discovered Letter Sheds Light on
1858Ausson Meteorite Fall

Hi,

If you would like to learn of an interesting letter written by the professor

who helped remove the Ausson meteorite out of the ground, check the latest 
posting on my blog.

You can see the posting at:

http://meteoritemanuscripts.blogspot.com

You can also follow me on twitter as well at:

http://twitter.com/MetManuscripts

Thanks!

Mark

Mark Grossman
Briarcliff Manor, NY
USA



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Re: [meteorite-list] Petroglyphs

2010-11-04 Thread Thomas




On 11/4/2010 9:00 AM, Count Deiro wrote:
Dave Holt, has never heard of the Valley of the Yoni in Nevada,

Count,
I was concerned that I might not be remembering this correctly so I 
rechecked the source. It was in a story by Tom Robbins titled Canyon of 
the Vaginas, so I did get it wrong, but in my defense I think he refers 
to it as valley of the yonis in the text.


Canyon of the Vaginas may not be the correct name either. Robbins made 
it clear that he was aware of the potential for abuse at these sights so 
he may have altered the name to help protect the place, or may have 
simply created a name that he thought was more humorous.


Thomas M
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Re: [meteorite-list] Petroglyphs or Yoni questions

2010-11-04 Thread Rob Holcomb


Hi Thomas,
If I remember correctly there was a usage for Yoni as a description of 
canyons or rock formations that resemble female genitals and the hoodoo 
resembled a male. And in Nevada there were several places with these 
formations with names like virgin valley (famous for opals) and Queen 
Valley...
Check some of the Goddess and Earth Mother sources for references to Yoni, 
try Sacred Places of Goddess by Karen Tate, isbn: 9781888729115


Rob Holcomb
Safer Storage for your meteorites
www.rholcomb.com

--
From: Thomas tmor...@mind.net
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 7:52 PM
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Petroglyphs




On 11/4/2010 9:00 AM, Count Deiro wrote:
Dave Holt, has never heard of the Valley of the Yoni in Nevada,

Count,
I was concerned that I might not be remembering this correctly so I 
rechecked the source. It was in a story by Tom Robbins titled Canyon of 
the Vaginas, so I did get it wrong, but in my defense I think he refers 
to it as valley of the yonis in the text.


Canyon of the Vaginas may not be the correct name either. Robbins made it 
clear that he was aware of the potential for abuse at these sights so he 
may have altered the name to help protect the place, or may have simply 
created a name that he thought was more humorous.


Thomas M
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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

2010-11-04 Thread Thomas




On 11/4/2010 12:10 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

I hope you were not in Oregon or Washington State when you talked to this BLM
officer.  If you were, do not mention the word meteorites because they are now
off limits


We were calm and cool and did not mention meteorites at all. He did not 
seem to be aware of that possibility and we didn't see a need to educate 
him : )
Our plan if we were to find anything was to photograph them and record 
the location and then to contact Dick Pugh in Portland without removing 
them, so we had no intention of violating their laws anyway, but of 
course no sense getting them worked up about unnecessarily : )


Thomas M
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Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

I will close my part in this debate by stating that the original Antiquities 
Act 
was written long before there was great interest in meteorites in 1906 and has 
nothing to do with meteorites whatsoever.  The Management Act of 1976 doesn't 
address meteorites at all. The Archaeological Resources  Protection Act of 1979 
has nothing to do with meteorites either.  If the protection of meteorites is 
that important, common sense would state that they would have been mentioned by 
name instead of a vague entity scientific  Plants have more scientific value 
to most. 


Meteorites have no scientific value whatsoever unless they are collected from 
the field and provided to science. 


Happy Hunting,

Adam
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[meteorite-list] Dennis Cox -- NM and SW Montana craters on CosmicTusk.com 2010.10.31: Rich Murray 2010.11.04

2010-11-04 Thread Rich Murray

Dennis Cox -- NM and SW Montana craters on CosmicTusk.com 2010.10.31: Rich 
Murray 2010.11.04


33.902836 -105.527268 1.889 km elevation,
7 m below NE rim at 1.896 km elevation,
1.3 km size SW to NE,
NE of Carrizozo lava field, NM


Rich Murray
October 31st, 2010 at 12:38 am  CosmicTuck.com blog comment

4 large geoablative melt flow sites west of Carrizozo lava field, New 
Mexico: Rich Murray 2010.10.30


33.621280 -106.204255 delicate geoablative flow patterns:
to the S is an EW dark lava strip (70 m wide NS)
with long EW flow ridges about 8-17 m apart.

In Google Earth,
use Ctrl down arrow or up to tilt the view,
and Ctrl L arrow or R to rotate,
and the four arrow keys to move horizontally,
making it easy to see the 3D shapes of the land.
Use N to restore the N view.

The area to the N and E has a road Wsmr S Rt 335 (NS) that ends S at Wsmr P 
Rt 12 (EW),

which becomes CR A003 (EW), which goes E across
the thin middle of Carrizozo lava field
and then crosses US 54 (NNE).
Wspr P Rt 9 (NS) is 74 m lower to the W.

33.709143 -106.145081 classic vertical geoablation ridges

33.654083 -106.041597 1.692 km el peak
within huge geoablative melt air blast area

33.760188 -106.197151 2.061 km el peak
geoablation melt

http://craterhunter.wordpress.com/2010/10/24/a-crater-a-day/#comments


http://cosmictusk.com/bob-kobres-a-nickel-pickel-part-d#comments

2 comments to Bob Kobres' A Nickel Pickle: Part D!

Dennis Cox
November 2nd, 2010 at 9:46 am

The Red Rock River Valley in southwest Montana is a crater field of 
multiple, oblique, low angle impacts coming from the southwest.

And into the sedimentary deposits of the valley floor.
The sedimentary deposits there date to the late Pleistocene, early Holocene.
The ejecta from the oval crater at 44.642265, -112.077185 was blown over the 
top of, and is blanketing, one of the ancient meanders of the river.


The ejecta covering that ancient meander should provide an excellent 
stratigraphic horizon for dating the event.


Considering the trajectory, Glacial Lake Missoula was down range.


Rich Murray
November 4th, 2010 at 12:08 am

44.664261 -111.940163 2.025 km elevation, a very similar field

44.632155 -112.046756 2.019 km elevation

44.629973 -111.998401 2.018 km elevation


http://www.scribd.com/doc/35295841/Southwest-Montana

same crater fields


http://www.scribd.com/doc/35009250/Mountain-Flows

29.709410  -105.687881 in north central Mexico 


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Re: [meteorite-list] Smithville man almost hit by meteorite

Jason said:

...looks like a small, weathered iron meteorite that has been wire-brushed.

Ditto. Probably a Campo.

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536

-Original Message-
From: Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com
Sent: Nov 4, 2010 6:20 PM
To: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Smithville man almost hit by meteorite

Hello All,
The meteorite photographed looks like a small, weathered iron
meteorite that has been wire-brushed.
Seeing as the finder, Duncan, is a self-employed painter, whose
business had slowed down to the point he is struggling to make ends
meet, and who is indeed planning to sell his rock, as per the
article, I'd say this is likely just another hoax.
Regards,
Jason



On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:11 PM, Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote:
 Question: How do you almost confirm something?

 Perhaps they should all research more about meteorites.

 Eric

 On 11/4/2010 5:34 PM, Thunder Stone wrote:

 Take a look

 Greg S.


 http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=13448872


 Smithville man almost hit by meteorite


 SMITHVILLE, Tenn. – A Smithville man witnessed something only 1,000 people
 have ever experienced.

 In August, while walking down the street in Smithville, Jimmy Duncan and
 his girlfriend, heard and then found a meteorite

 My girlfriend and I were walking down the street and we heard an awful
 whistle, he recalled.  We looked around to see and all of a sudden, I
 heard a thump.

 The meteorite had hit the asphalt pavement, left a hole and then bounced
 onto the sidewalk.

 Duncan knew what it was, but had no idea how rare his experience actually
 was.

 Of all the meteorite findings around the world, just over 1,000 cases are
 called falls or situations where people witness the meteorite hitting the
 earth.

 It missed me by about 10 feet, Duncan said.

 He brought the meteorite to the Tennessee Department of Geological Studies
 where State Geologist Ron Zurawski almost confirmed what Duncan already
 knew.  It is a meteorite.

 It's a bit of material left over from when the solar system was formed,
 Zurawski explained.  In this case, it is several billion years old, about
 the same age as the earth, which is four and a half billion years old.

 Duncan is a self-employed painter, whose business had slowed down to the
 point he is struggling to make ends meet.

 He plans to sell the meteorite after he figures out how much it is worth.

 __
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 http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Petroglyphs Valley of the Yonis