[meteorite-list] OT: Meteorite Meme Season IV
Dear List; Seems that this is the iV th season http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOp3bZxCdKA Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Real or not real.
I have a stone from years ago that appears oriented but weathered. It was originally thought to be a planetary but that did not seem to pan out clearly. The problem was that the very qualified scientist could not say for sure what it was and could also not rule out other options like an Earth meteorite either. Further tests were just too expensive and the budget didn't allow for it. The thing is that the stone was even taken along to one of the Annual Met Society meetings and passed around to various people along with a couple of well known planetary scientists from NASA looking at it. A couple suggested it is likely some sort of basalt but not one person could come up with any idea of where or how it formed. Basically they said to just wait and see if any other similar NWA's showed up over the years. I'm still waiting! ;-) So yes... there are definitely stones out there that stump even the best. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: GREG LINDH gee...@msn.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 4:47 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Real or not real. To all, Are there any stones that have been found that are unable to be definitively identified as a meteorite? In other words, are there stones (metal or stony) that the meteorite experts of the world examine closely, and then just say, We just don't know? Greg L. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg?
Hi Shawn, as far as I know, the first lunar meteorites recovered were the three Yamatos in 1979. Nevertheless they weren't recognized as lunaites before ALH 81005 was recovered and discovered to be a lunar. It's said, that Haag reminded photos of these meteorites, when he had Calcalong in his hands and suspected it therefore to be a lunar. Millbillillie - there was a fireball sighting in 1960, but the first stone was found not before 1970. When exactly the stone of Calcalong was picked up from the strewnfield - at best Haag perhaps knows it if at all. Else I think, it's impossible to know. Millbillillie is by far the largest eucrite fall ever, the 869 among the HEDs - still today from three eucritic stones on Earth two are a Millbillillie and certainly, I suppose, the strewnfield isn't exhausted yet, especially because Australia turned into a no-go-area for expert hunters. That's a little bit tragically - the majority of lunaite-finds came in multiple stones. So if Calcalong Creek stems from the Millbillillie area - the chances for finding more stones are the best of all, because the hunt there for the professional expert hunters would be potentially anyway rewarding due to the additional Millbillillies to be found - so that the chances to generate the manhours necessary (and to bring the efficient expert eyes there) free of costs are better than anywhere else on the globe. Though currently politics is the obstacle, so that we still have to wait for a change, until the first Australian moon rock will be on display in an Australian museum. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn Alan Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. April 2011 07:10 An: Frank Cressy Cc: meteoritelist Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg? Hello Frank and Listers, Why I asked this question was because a couple weeks ago I sent out some emails on a project I am working on and someone had suggested that I should have ALHA81005 with the project I am doing because it was the first Lunar meteorite found. Thats some big new for the meteorite/science world. I got to looking around and saw that the date was 1981 or 1982 when the lunar was discovered and I had also noticed on the Meteoritical Bulletin Database that Calcalong Creek was discovered 1960. I had also read other sources that stated that the Calcalong Creek was found after 1960 but before 1990 by an Aborigine meteorite hunter in the Millbillillie strewnfield. Science likes to be 100% right so to say that the ALHA81005 was the first discovered lunar meteorite has some doubt in my mind because of the project I am doing. Yes I can agree that the ALHA81005 is the first classified meteorite, however to say that it was the first lunar to be found has some little doubts because of what had be going on in Austrial from 1960 to 1990 with the collecting of the Millbillillie meteorites. I would like to see or hear what Robert Haag can recall from that day when he found that specail meteorite. Hes the first source and could help enlighten what he can recall from the day he found the first lunar meteorite out side of Anartica and could also be the first found lunar as well. Hope he reads this and can put some light on to this fasinating discovery. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html --- On Tue, 4/26/11, Frank Cressy fcre...@prodigy.net wrote: From: Frank Cressy fcre...@prodigy.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg? To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Cc: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011, 8:33 PM Shawn, I think you've misinterpreted your source a bit. It says that Calcalong Creek was found AFTER 1960. As I remember it Millbillillie fell in 1960, but no meteorites from that fall were found until the early 1970s. Many stones were found in the 70s and 80s and are still being found today. There is no data as far as I know as to when Calcalong Creek was actually picked up. Haag found Calcalong Creek in a box of Millbillillie stones stones he purchased in1990 or 1991 and he recognized it as different then. Unless you can say exactly when Calcalong Creek was picked up I think you have to go with ALHA81005 as the first lunar. Cheers, Frank - Original Message From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 5:59:05 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg? Hello Listers The question is which came first the chicken or the eggs? Well lets get back to the but I have a better one, which came first Calcalong Creek Lunar or ALHA81005 Lunar ? Sources and research states that ALHA81005 was the first Lunar meteorite. But how can that be? Calcalong Creek meteorite was
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 27, 2011
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_27_2011.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg?
Let's make no mistake about the importance of ALHA81005: this was the stone that led to the discovery that rocks from the Moon were present in the meteorite record on Earth. Likewise, EETA79001 was the stone that provided the first convincing evidence that Mars rocks were present on Earth. Until that time, Chassigny and Nakhla were just different kinds of achondrites. These meteorites are the ones that belong in the science hall of fame. Jeff On 4/27/2011 1:10 AM, Shawn Alan wrote: Hello Frank and Listers, Why I asked this question was because a couple weeks ago I sent out some emails on a project I am working on and someone had suggested that I should have ALHA81005 with the project I am doing because it was the first Lunar meteorite found. Thats some big new for the meteorite/science world. I got to looking around and saw that the date was 1981 or 1982 when the lunar was discovered and I had also noticed on the Meteoritical Bulletin Database that Calcalong Creek was discovered 1960. I had also read other sources that stated that the Calcalong Creek was found after 1960 but before 1990 by an Aborigine meteorite hunter in the Millbillillie strewnfield. Science likes to be 100% right so to say that the ALHA81005 was the first discovered lunar meteorite has some doubt in my mind because of the project I am doing. Yes I can agree that the ALHA81005 is the first classified meteorite, however to say that it was the first lunar to be found has some little doubts because of what had be going on in Austrial from 1960 to 1990 with the collecting of the Millbillillie meteorites. I would like to see or hear what Robert Haag can recall from that day when he found that specail meteorite. Hes the first source and could help enlighten what he can recall from the day he found the first lunar meteorite out side of Anartica and could also be the first found lunar as well. Hope he reads this and can put some light on to this fasinating discovery. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html --- On Tue, 4/26/11, Frank Cressyfcre...@prodigy.net wrote: From: Frank Cressyfcre...@prodigy.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg? To: Shawn Alanphotoph...@yahoo.com Cc: meteoritelistmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011, 8:33 PM Shawn, I think you've misinterpreted your source a bit. It says that Calcalong Creek was found AFTER 1960. As I remember it Millbillillie fell in 1960, but no meteorites from that fall were found until the early 1970s. Many stones were found in the 70s and 80s and are still being found today. There is no data as far as I know as to when Calcalong Creek was actually picked up. Haag found Calcalong Creek in a box of Millbillillie stones stones he purchased in1990 or 1991 and he recognized it as different then. Unless you can say exactly when Calcalong Creek was picked up I think you have to go with ALHA81005 as the first lunar. Cheers, Frank - Original Message From: Shawn Alanphotoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 5:59:05 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg? Hello Listers The question is which came first the chicken or the eggs? Well lets get back to the but I have a better one, which came first Calcalong Creek Lunar or ALHA81005 Lunar ? Sources and research states that ALHA81005 was the first Lunar meteorite. But how can that be? Calcalong Creek meteorite was recovered by an Aborigine meteorite hunter in the Millbillillie strewnfield in 1960 ish and discovered by Robert Haag in 1990 ish. Now wouldn't the statement make more since if it read like this... Calcalong Creek meteorite was the first discovered Lunar meteorite and ALHA81005 was the first classified Lunar meteorite? These sources state this ALHA81005 Whats special about this one? It's the first rock found on Earth recognized to be a meteorite from the Moon. Compositionally, mineralogically, and texturally it is unlike any other lunar meteorite. http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/alha81005.htm Calcalong Creek Whats special about this one? It was the first lunar meteorite to have been found outside of Antarctica. It is the only lunar meteorite to have been found in Australia. http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/calcalong.htm I would say the links are partly right but feel that Calcalong Creek should also say that it was the first found Lunar meteorite. So now what came first Calcalong Creek or ALHA81005 or can we say the chicken? Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg?
And any Martian or Lunar meteorite belongs at least in the propylaeum of the science hall of fame, don't they? Hmm...adjacent question: Which collection, regarding the meaning of the specimens, the continuity of representation from historic to up-to-date finds and finally public access/display of meteorites would deserve the insignia Meteorite Hall of Fame most? Suggestions? Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff Grossman Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. April 2011 13:18 An: meteoritelist Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg? Let's make no mistake about the importance of ALHA81005: this was the stone that led to the discovery that rocks from the Moon were present in the meteorite record on Earth. Likewise, EETA79001 was the stone that provided the first convincing evidence that Mars rocks were present on Earth. Until that time, Chassigny and Nakhla were just different kinds of achondrites. These meteorites are the ones that belong in the science hall of fame. Jeff On 4/27/2011 1:10 AM, Shawn Alan wrote: Hello Frank and Listers, Why I asked this question was because a couple weeks ago I sent out some emails on a project I am working on and someone had suggested that I should have ALHA81005 with the project I am doing because it was the first Lunar meteorite found. Thats some big new for the meteorite/science world. I got to looking around and saw that the date was 1981 or 1982 when the lunar was discovered and I had also noticed on the Meteoritical Bulletin Database that Calcalong Creek was discovered 1960. I had also read other sources that stated that the Calcalong Creek was found after 1960 but before 1990 by an Aborigine meteorite hunter in the Millbillillie strewnfield. Science likes to be 100% right so to say that the ALHA81005 was the first discovered lunar meteorite has some doubt in my mind because of the project I am doing. Yes I can agree that the ALHA81005 is the first classified meteorite, however to say that it was the first lunar to be found has some little doubts because of what had be going on in Austrial from 1960 to 1990 with the collecting of the Millbillillie meteorites. I would like to see or hear what Robert Haag can recall from that day when he found that specail meteorite. Hes the first source and could help enlighten what he can recall from the day he found the first lunar meteorite out side of Anartica and could also be the first found lunar as well. Hope he reads this and can put some light on to this fasinating discovery. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html --- On Tue, 4/26/11, Frank Cressyfcre...@prodigy.net wrote: From: Frank Cressyfcre...@prodigy.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg? To: Shawn Alanphotoph...@yahoo.com Cc: meteoritelistmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011, 8:33 PM Shawn, I think you've misinterpreted your source a bit. It says that Calcalong Creek was found AFTER 1960. As I remember it Millbillillie fell in 1960, but no meteorites from that fall were found until the early 1970s. Many stones were found in the 70s and 80s and are still being found today. There is no data as far as I know as to when Calcalong Creek was actually picked up. Haag found Calcalong Creek in a box of Millbillillie stones stones he purchased in1990 or 1991 and he recognized it as different then. Unless you can say exactly when Calcalong Creek was picked up I think you have to go with ALHA81005 as the first lunar. Cheers, Frank - Original Message From: Shawn Alanphotoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 5:59:05 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg? Hello Listers The question is which came first the chicken or the eggs? Well lets get back to the but I have a better one, which came first Calcalong Creek Lunar or ALHA81005 Lunar ? Sources and research states that ALHA81005 was the first Lunar meteorite. But how can that be? Calcalong Creek meteorite was recovered by an Aborigine meteorite hunter in the Millbillillie strewnfield in 1960 ish and discovered by Robert Haag in 1990 ish. Now wouldn't the statement make more since if it read like this... Calcalong Creek meteorite was the first discovered Lunar meteorite and ALHA81005 was the first classified Lunar meteorite? These sources state this ALHA81005 Whats special about this one? It's the first rock found on Earth recognized to be a meteorite from the Moon. Compositionally, mineralogically, and texturally it is unlike any other lunar meteorite. http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/alha81005.htm Calcalong Creek Whats special about this one? It was the first lunar
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 27, 2011
Michael Michael, I've added this immediately to my Thuathe file. A school built of meteorites: wonderful project indeed. Thanks for posting. Best regards, Matthias - Original Message - From: Michael Johnson mich...@rocksfromspace.org To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 1:15 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 27,2011 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_27_2011.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6075 (20110427) __ E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6075 (20110427) __ E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 27, 2011
Excellent! Nothing to add. Svend Michael Johnson mich...@rocksfromspace.org hat am 27. April 2011 um 13:15 geschrieben: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_27_2011.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Real or not real.
Did anyone keep a copy of the announcements and associated pictures? Sean. -Original Message- From: Adam Hupe Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:00 PM To: Adam Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Real or not real. It is obvious that Shirokovsky was faked (man-made) in order to defraud the collecting community. The weight and dimensions were perfect for being created in a crucible. I remember when they announced it and everybody's faces inn posted images were obscured by frogman suits or they were looking the other way. I never touched any of this stuff. It smelt like fraud from the beginning to me. The first pieces even had bar-coded labels on them, ready for distribution. I wonder if anything happened to these scam artists? Adam - Original Message From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: GREG LINDH gee...@msn.com Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 12:32:49 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Real or not real. Hi Greg, I can think of two examples of mysterious specimens. One is Shirokovsky and the other is Mendota. Scientists are certain that both are not meteoritic, but yet, nobody can explain how either one was created. Such stones fall under the category of We know what it isn't... versus we know what it is... Best regards, MikeG --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 On 4/26/11, GREG LINDH gee...@msn.com wrote: To all, Are there any stones that have been found that are unable to be definitively identified as a meteorite? In other words, are there stones (metal or stony) that the meteorite experts of the world examine closely, and then just say, We just don't know? Greg L. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Real or not real.
Hello Jeff, The problem with that analogy is that visual inspection is only a very small part of the testing of a rock. While your post appears to suggest the scientist could not tell, it does not indicate that any testing was completed on it. What testing was done on it??? I could be totally wrong but sure hope that with the bazillions of tax dollars spent on funding research, in this day and age, I would suggest that there better not be a rock out there the scientist can not identify. I really get the impression that maybe the scientists where being polite and not attempting to burst your bubble? Respectfully, what scientist in their right mind would turn down a valid cold find or a new fall specimen? Does this actually happen??? Any scientists out there??? Check out my number 4 of 4 finds on yesterday's hunt at Franconia : http://desrtsunburn.no-ip.org/DSCN0142.jpg (~5mb macro) Kind Regards, Jim Wooddell http://desertsunburn.no-ip.org --- On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 1:46 AM, Jeff Kuyken i...@meteorites.com.au wrote: I have a stone from years ago that appears oriented but weathered. It was originally thought to be a planetary but that did not seem to pan out clearly. The problem was that the very qualified scientist could not say for sure what it was and could also not rule out other options like an Earth meteorite either. Further tests were just too expensive and the budget didn't allow for it. The thing is that the stone was even taken along to one of the Annual Met Society meetings and passed around to various people along with a couple of well known planetary scientists from NASA looking at it. A couple suggested it is likely some sort of basalt but not one person could come up with any idea of where or how it formed. Basically they said to just wait and see if any other similar NWA's showed up over the years. I'm still waiting! ;-) So yes... there are definitely stones out there that stump even the best. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: GREG LINDH gee...@msn.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 4:47 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Real or not real. To all, Are there any stones that have been found that are unable to be definitively identified as a meteorite? In other words, are there stones (metal or stony) that the meteorite experts of the world examine closely, and then just say, We just don't know? Greg L. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2011 info
Zelimir I send you fraternal greetings from the beautiful country of Scotland (although at the moment our football is not so beautiful). It hardly seems a year ago since I was preparing my last visit to Ensisheim. I am so glad you allowed me to discover this little gem by inviting me over in 2009. This year, unfortunately, I will be unable to attend because our whole museum is busy preparing out new galleries for opening in July 2011 and I will be very busy in May and June. This is a great loss for me as visiting Ensisheim gives me an opportunity to meet new friends, have a beer (or two) with old friends and learn a little bit more about meteorites. Next year, I will return and I am looking forward to it already. In the meantime, I hope to meet some of the visitor in Munich and perhaps also in Denver. Have a great time everybody. Cheers Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals Department of Natural Sciences National Museums Collection Centre 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Scotland Tel: 00 44 131 247 4283 E-mail: p.david...@nms.ac.uk -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr Sent: 21 April 2011 11:18 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2011 info ENSISHEIM ?METEORITE 2011? NEWS (April 21, 2011) Dear meteorite friends, My recent relative silence on the mail is basically due to family health problems (through personally I am in good shape) that had required my constant presence in Belgium, far from Mulhouse (where I basically achieved teaching activities) and thus from mail contact facilities. I want to apologize to you all who sent me messages that I haven?t answered yet. I?ll try to be in contact soon by answering specifically your questions or requests. Please find heredown the official announcement of the 12th edition of our ?ENSISHEIM SHOW? that I traditionally use to forward to all of you who are on my mailing list. Your recent requests and questions regarding this henceforth-unavoidable event argue for your intact interest that we all meet again in the little cozy city of Ensisehim that is housing, since almost 520 years, probably the most famous meteorite of the Solar system! I am fully confident that many of us will gather again to celebrate the next Spring-Summer transition by sharing our (old, new or renewed) passions for extraterrestrial objects of asteroidal or planetary origin (meteorites) or from true terrestrial sources (tektites, impactites). Yes, definitely, « Ensisheim 2011 » is well scheduled for next June, now 12 years in a row. As every year, here you will find again, as a preview (only for you!), a summary of the main characteristics of this 12th edition. - SHOW DATES: Saturday June 18 (9:30-18:00) and Sunday June 19 (9:30-16:00), 2011 (the weekend preceding the famous ?Ste Marie-aux-Mines? mineral show that is held relatively nearby (~ 80 km). SHOW MAIN THEME: ?NWA: The Saharan Meteorite Bonanza? SIDE THEME: ?Electromagnetic properties of meteorites? FRIDAY ACTIVITIES Friday 17th is the DEALER?S DAY devoted for tables/booth set up. As last year, the Regency Palace rooms are exclusively open to dealers (14:00 - 18:30), and NOT to the public. - Note 1: Entrance exceptionally allowed to occasional visitors for justified reasons, on request (entrance fee) - Note 2: dealers can also (continue to) set up their booths on Saturday 18th morning (7:30 ? 9:30) before the official show opening. New: This year the Regency Palace rooms as well as the entire electrical system are significantly renovated and modernized. The Regency Palace rooms close on Friday 18:30 and all the opening ceremonies then start on the main square: inaugural address, enthroning ceremonies, friendly drink offered to dealers invited friends? This year, a giant cake having the rough shape of the original Ensisheim meteorite (!) will be baked. A portion is offered to anybody accepting to quench his thirst with a glass of fresh ?Pinot Gris?? FRIDAY DINNER PARTY The traditional Friday Dinner Party starts at 20:00 on the main square, inside the large tent, thus almost in the open air (the mini cold wave experienced in 2010 is relatively unlikely, though scattered (thunder)storms are never excluded in hot Summer days (ask Bob Haag in 2001!) Two meals (appetizer + beef or fowl (poultry) + desert (cook?s surprise) selectively prepared by the owner of the nearby restaurant Le Boeuf Rouge are proposed for a friendly price, not yet specified but around 13 euro (about US $ 18-20), beverage not included (for some ?obscure? reasons?) Beer is unlimited (you bet!). This year the ?Meteor? beer (though famous by name) is replaced by the excellent new brand ?Storky?: white beer, amber beer, as well as a ?special meteorite vintage 2011?. And there
Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg?
Hi Shawn and all, Perhaps I can shed some light on this subject. First, the Japanese also found a lunar probably before ALH81005 but didn't get around to classifying it until after Allen Hills. I think the same might be said of Calcalong Creek that it wasn't studied for a while after the find. No doubt there are other type specimens that are sitting in drawers that would have made history as the first type specimen found but until the research is done then we can't look back until something is officially recognized or we would really be re-writing meteorite history all the time, regardless of the order it was found. First come first served! Calcalong Creek was a big deal in the 1990's when it officially became recognized. I was invited to a dinner with Robert Haag, Joel Schiff of Meteorite Magazine and the Nortons (Rocks From Space) (thanks Joseph!) and after dinner we went to Bob Haag's house and into the vault. We got to see many of Robert's fine specimens (Pena Blanca was amazing) but most of all we were all able to hold his personal Calcalong Creek specimen. What an honor. At this time I can't recall the date but will try to come up with one soon. I'd say that Bob Haag probably had the specimen for a while, perhaps the finder had specimen they were hanging on to before it reach the market and sold to Bob. You also have to remember at that time 1970's when Millbillillie was being collected, scientists didn't think it was possible for lunar material to survive a trip to the Earth even though it had been suggested a couple of centuries before hand. With the recognizing of Allen Hills 81005 as lunar, it opened up many eyes that lunar meteorites do fall and survive passage. While you may be correct about the order of find, a certain order and protocol had to first happen in order for the specimen to be finally recognized. All my best! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: Frank Cressy fcre...@prodigy.net Cc: meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 1:10 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg? Yes I can agree that the ALHA81005 is the first classified meteorite, however to say that it was the first lunar to be found has some little doubts because of what had be going on in Austrial from 1960 to 1990 with the collecting of the Millbillillie meteorites. I would like to see or hear what Robert Haag can recall from that day when he found that specail meteorite. Hes the first source and could help enlighten what he can recall from the day he found the first lunar meteorite out side of Anartica and could also be the first found lunar as well. Hope he reads this and can put some light on to this fasinating discovery. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Real or not real.
Greg, Jim, List, I found something while following up on a meteorite lead, a story of a witnessed fall by a farmer who picked up a 25 lb. rock that supposedly fell right in front of him. Many years later the great grandson wanted to get the 'meteorite' but it was nowhere to be found. He enlisted me to search the property where the farm once stood and I found this enigma in about an hour. When the great grandson saw the rock still setting on the ground where I found it he got really excited about, saying that he recognized it, I had found the 'meteorite'. I almost hate to dredge this story up but it is relevant to the thread. I found the rock in 2001. Within 3 weeks of its discovery and after passing through the hands of several esteemed meteorite experts It was sent to the U.S.Dept. of Energy for Al 26 counting. It was deemed by the U.S. D.O.E. not a meteorite due to a lack of Al 26. When I asked what it was they said they did not know, they were so certain it was a meteorite that they tested it for 100 times less Al 26 than they expected to find in a normal meteorite but still found none. I was told that it is a rock unlike any they had ever seen, perhaps from Disko Island (due to its Ni content) but not like anything they had seen from Disko Island. Since then, samples of it have been archived at three different Univerities for 'future study' should anything arise (or fall) to justify it. My own amateur research indicates to me that it may possibly be some sort of impact debris, possibly related to the KT impact. Two main reasons for this potential conclusion are the fact that Argon dating puts it at the right age, 75 ma. + / - 10 million, and the fact that there are some unusual crystals, tiny Cr spinels with a peculiar feature that are only found in one other place on Earth, the KT boundary layer. Those crystals, (in the KT) are pseudomorphs after spinel and the dirt immediately adjacent to the xtals is enriched in Cr. suggesting a possible relation. These crystals in the KT layer are thought to have condensed and precipitated from the plume that shrouded the planet. There is another camp that thinks the xtals may be from the impactor. To address Jim Wooddells concerns, let me say that I was told flat out that the reason they couldn't or wouldn't take this to the final conclussion was simple, it could jeopardize future funding and professional reputation. It seems that if a scientist spends a bunch of money and wastes a lot of time on an object that turns out to be nothing, monies and reputation are at stake. I can understand this I guess, but it seems like a sure way to ensure that the really odd stuff will not be recognized unless it's an irrefutable witnessed fall. Of course it could all be a big coincidence, just a man made rock that fooled the Argon dating process. Some have scoffed at it saying it is nothing unusual, but the majority of experts say that it is a very unusual rock. This is evident when looking at a sawn surface, you ca see that it's made of minerals with texture, it looks nearly identicle to D'Orbigny. In fact, several experts thought it was an angrite at first look. When I saw D'Orbigny the first time in ET's room I almost fell over. Tiny crystals in the vugs sparkling in the light like little diamonds, just like mine. On closer examination I saw that the crystals were not the same. To this day I do not know it's true origin, any meteoriticists or impact experts out there with deep pockets and nothing to lose care to take a stab at it? I posted some pictures to photobucket. http://s934.photobucket.com/albums/ad190/alienrockfarm/2001%20Find/ Ths is an extremely condensed version of the story, it's truly one of the most fascinating meteorwrong stories of all time. Happy Hunting! Sincerely, Larry Atkins IMCA # 1941 Ebay alienrockfarm Sincerely, Larry Atkins IMCA # 1941 Ebay alienrockfarm -Original Message- From: Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, Apr 27, 2011 9:47 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Real or not real. Hello Jeff, The problem with that analogy is that visual inspection is only a very small part of the testing of a rock. While your post appears to suggest the scientist could not tell, it does not indicate that any testing was completed on it. What testing was done on it??? I could be totally wrong but sure hope that with the bazillions of tax dollars spent on funding research, in this day and age, I would suggest that there better not be a rock out there the scientist can not identify. I really get the impression that maybe the scientists where being polite and not attempting to burst your bubble? Respectfully, what scientist in their right mind would turn down a valid cold find or a new fall specimen? Does this actually happen??? Any scientists out there??? Check out my number 4 of 4 finds on yesterday's hunt at Franconia :
Re: [meteorite-list] KT extinction impacts
Dear E.P. Sterling, do you have a public formula handy for converting craters into megatons in a very rough number? ...perhaps he will generate a very easy to use oversimplified rough approximation formula for Earth impacts. There ARE some simplified model equations for crater size and impact energy, hence impactor size, and there certainly are some quick and rough ones. [Note: I stole this from the very best sources...] Consider a 100-m chunk of asteroidal material encountering the surface of a rocky planet at a speed of 20 km/s. The kinetic energy density of the impactor is 1/2 (2 x 10^6)^2 or 2 x 10^12 erg/g. The energy required to crush a typical rock is a little above 10^8 erg/g. [A joule is 10^7 ergs] To heat it to its melting point requires about 10^10 erg/g and to vaporize it requires less than 10^11 erg/g. Thus the impactor carries enough kinetic energy to not only vaporize itself completely, but also crush up to roughly 1000 times its own mass of target rock, melt roughly 100 times its own mass, or vaporize about 10 times its own mass. Alternatively, it carries enough kinetic energy to accelerate 100 times its own mass to a speed of 0.1 times its impact speed. In reality, an impact does all of these things to some degree and divides its energy over all these possible outcomes. Thus an impactor may crush 1000 times its own mass of rock, melt 10 times its mass, vaporize a few times its own mass, and eject 100 times its mass at speeds of tens to hundreds of meters per second and still give off a substantial amount of energy as seismic waves and radiation from the fireball. Crater sizes are of course generally related to the kinetic energy content of the impactor. For relatively SMALL impacts the critical factor in determining the target's resistance to the explosion is the strength of the material, S (dyn/cu.cm.). If S density x g x crater diameter at the level of the target surface, then the crater excavation process is strength limited (the g equals the surface gravity of the planet; in the case of Earth, g = 1). In this case, the diameter scales as: D (km) roughly equals the cube root of W, where W is the explosion energy in units of millions of tons of TNT equivalent (megatons; Mt). For very large impacts, no material has enough strength to matter, and the cratering process depends only on the gravitational environment in which it occurs: D (km) roughly equals the fourth root of W/g For a rule of thumb for craters from a few kilometers up to 100 km or more with impactor speeds of 25-30 km/s, the crater is nine or ten times the size of the impactor, If you find a 100-km crater on Earth, you can figure the impactor was 8-9 km if fast and 11-12 km if slow, and delivered 100 (crater diameter) ^ 4, or 100,000,000 megatons. Chicxulub, in other words. You can do that much with a thumb... Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; ACC Bill Allen bal...@hohmanntransfer.com; Astronomer m...@star.arm.ac.uk; Ted Bunch tbe...@cableone.net; burc...@math.okstate.edu; phil burns p...@pibburns.com; c.leroy.ellenber...@wharton.upenn.edu; cavet...@aol.com; dal...@ldeo.columbia.edu; d...@star.arm.ac.uk; Duncan duncanst...@grapevine.com.au; Leroy Ellenberger c.le...@rocketmail.com; Richard Firestone rbfirest...@lbl.gov; Richard Firestone r...@lbl.gov; keith holsapple holsap...@aa.washington.edu; George Howard geo...@restorationsystems.com; Elton Jones mstrema...@yahoo.com; Kennett dkenn...@uoregon.edu; Bob Kobres bkob...@uga.edu; Raoul Lannoy raoul.lan...@pandora.be; W. Bruce Masse wbma...@lanl.gov; napie...@cardiff.ac.uk; bernd pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de; Benny Peiser benny.pei...@thegwpf.org; Tree Rings m.bail...@qub.ac.uk; Peter Schultz peter_schu...@brown.edu; tanke...@uc.edu; Oscar Alfredo Turone oatur...@sinectis.com.ar; Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; Allen West allen7...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 1:32 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] KT extinction impacts Hi all - Ahem. Jay, you are right that it is a hypothesis that the KT impacts were from fragments of the same comet. The other explanation, and a far more likely one, now that you mention it, is that Clube and Napier's injection mechanism was at work, and multiple comets hit at roughly the same time. In this summary, note the pooling of oil in the fractures, which may go a long way toward explaining the lack of public publications: http://starmon.com/KT_craters.html http://bi154.dhcp.ttu.edu/extinction/chatterjee+rudra08.pdf It is also interesting that 41 major scientists signed an open letter declaring that Chicxulub caused the extinction of the dinosaurs shortly before Chatterjee's work was widely circulated. In doing this they followed me in the earlier mistake I made in responding to
[meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg?
Jeff, Al, Martin and Listers, After reading the posts I have a better idea how I am going to approach the Calcalong Creek and ALHA81005 meteorites and stay true to science and culture that these meteorites hold. I do believe the stories that follows these meteorites are great and right in their own. And I am also intrigued by the EETA79001 meteorite that Jeff had suggested about Mars meteorites. Al, being there when Robert unveiled the Calcalong Creek has to be an all time high to see and hold that meteorite. Now lets go out and find the first American Lunar meteorite guys. Rock on Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html Let's make no mistake about the importance of ALHA81005: this was the stone that led to the discovery that rocks from the Moon were present in the meteorite record on Earth. Likewise, EETA79001 was the stone that provided the first convincing evidence that Mars rocks were present on Earth. Until that time, Chassigny and Nakhla were just different kinds of achondrites. These meteorites are the ones that belong in the science hall of fame. Jeff On 4/27/2011 1:10 AM, Shawn Alan wrote: Hello Frank and Listers, Why I asked this question was because a couple weeks ago I sent out some emails on a project I am working on and someone had suggested that I should have ALHA81005 with the project I am doing because it was the first Lunar meteorite found. Thats some big new for the meteorite/science world. I got to looking around and saw that the date was 1981 or 1982 when the lunar was discovered and I had also noticed on the Meteoritical Bulletin Database that Calcalong Creek was discovered 1960. I had also read other sources that stated that the Calcalong Creek was found after 1960 but before 1990 by an Aborigine meteorite hunter in the Millbillillie strewnfield. Science likes to be 100% right so to say that the ALHA81005 was the first discovered lunar meteorite has some doubt in my mind because of the project I am doing. Yes I can agree that the ALHA81005 is the first classified meteorite, however to say that it was the first lunar to be found has some little doubts because of what had be going on in Austrial from 1960 to 1990 with the collecting of the Millbillillie meteorites. I would like to see or hear what Robert Haag can recall from that day when he found that specail meteorite. Hes the first source and could help enlighten what he can recall from the day he found the first lunar meteorite out side of Anartica and could also be the first found lunar as well. Hope he reads this and can put some light on to this fasinating discovery. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg?
I've asked Robert Haag when Calcalong Creek was found, and he said no idea amigo. The actual find dates for the three Yamato 79 stones are listed here http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites_list_alpha.htm I dug those out of the Japanese literature. Randy Korotev At 01:26 PM 2011-04-27 Wednesday, you wrote: Jeff, Al, Martin and Listers, After reading the posts I have a better idea how I am going to approach the Calcalong Creek and ALHA81005 meteorites and stay true to science and culture that these meteorites hold. I do believe the stories that follows these meteorites are great and right in their own. And I am also intrigued by the EETA79001 meteorite that Jeff had suggested about Mars meteorites. Al, being there when Robert unveiled the Calcalong Creek has to be an all time high to see and hold that meteorite. Now lets go out and find the first American Lunar meteorite guys. Rock on Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html Let's make no mistake about the importance of ALHA81005: this was the stone that led to the discovery that rocks from the Moon were present in the meteorite record on Earth. Likewise, EETA79001 was the stone that provided the first convincing evidence that Mars rocks were present on Earth. Until that time, Chassigny and Nakhla were just different kinds of achondrites. These meteorites are the ones that belong in the science hall of fame. Jeff On 4/27/2011 1:10 AM, Shawn Alan wrote: Hello Frank and Listers, Why I asked this question was because a couple weeks ago I sent out some emails on a project I am working on and someone had suggested that I should have ALHA81005 with the project I am doing because it was the first Lunar meteorite found. Thats some big new for the meteorite/science world. I got to looking around and saw that the date was 1981 or 1982 when the lunar was discovered and I had also noticed on the Meteoritical Bulletin Database that Calcalong Creek was discovered 1960. I had also read other sources that stated that the Calcalong Creek was found after 1960 but before 1990 by an Aborigine meteorite hunter in the Millbillillie strewnfield. Science likes to be 100% right so to say that the ALHA81005 was the first discovered lunar meteorite has some doubt in my mind because of the project I am doing. Yes I can agree that the ALHA81005 is the first classified meteorite, however to say that it was the first lunar to be found has some little doubts because of what had be going on in Austrial from 1960 to 1990 with the collecting of the Millbillillie meteorites. I would like to see or hear what Robert Haag can recall from that day when he found that specail meteorite. Hes the first source and could help enlighten what he can recall from the day he found the first lunar meteorite out side of Anartica and could also be the first found lunar as well. Hope he reads this and can put some light on to this fasinating discovery. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg?
Bwahahahahahahah!!! Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: JoshuaTreeMuseum Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 11:10 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Which came first the chicken or the egg? I'm pretty sure the rooster came first. - Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MESSENGER: Profiling Polar Craters with the Mercury Laser Altimeter
http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/soc/highlights.html MESSENGER Science Highlights from Mercury's Orbit Profiling polar craters with the Mercury Laser Altimeter MESSENGER's Mercury Laser Altimeter (MLA) uses a laser to measure the distance from the spacecraft to Mercury's surface. The instrument sends a laser pulse to Mercury and measures the time it takes the light to bounce off the surface and return. Because we know the speed of light, we can convert the round-trip time to distance. Because we know the positions of the MESSENGER spacecraft and Mercury, we can determine the height of the terrain illuminated by the laser spot on the surface. The laser sends pulses separated in time by about one-eighth of a second and provides measurements that are usually spaced about 600 meters (about 660 yards) apart on the surface. The MLA is sufficiently powerful to measure spacecraft-to-surface distances up to about 1,600 km (1,000 miles). When the laser beam hits Mercury's surface, its footprint (or spot size) is between 15 and 100 meters in diameter, depending on distance, so MLA measures the average distance between the spacecraft and the surface over this area. The relative accuracy between measurements is better than 10 centimeters, (4 inches). A track from MLA, shown in Figure 1, contains the height measurements from one pass over Mercury's surface. [Figure 1] MLA's first measurements from Mercury orbit. This profile extends almost 5,000 km across the surface. The colors on the track show surface altitude relative to Mercury's average radius, estimated to be 2,440 km. The inset shows an expanded view of the very deepest portion of the profile. The arrow points to the crater shown in Figure 2. Like all instruments on MESSENGER, MLA provides information for several different science investigations. The range measurements from MLA will be used to recover the overall shape of the planet, which helps determine Mercury's interior structure. When MLA tracks cross deformational features such as ridges or scarps, the topographic profile provides information on how the landscape has adjusted in response to shortening or stretching of the crust. Comparing the change in elevation from one MLA measurement to the next gives an estimate of the roughness of the surface. One of the most important tasks for MLA is to measure the depths of craters that are near Mercury's north pole. Radar images of Mercury's polar regions obtained as many as 20 years ago by radio telescopes on Earth show that the floors of many of these craters contain material that reflects radio waves very well (Figure 2). Many scientists believe that these reflective polar deposits consist of water ice, but whether this is the correct explanation remains to be proved. Because Mercury's surface reaches temperatures as high as 450° Celsius (800° Fahrenheit), this explanation may seem surprising. However, the floors of craters near the poles are thought to be in permanent shadow, shielded from sunlight throughout the Mercury day and year. This situation arises because Mercury's axis of rotation is oriented nearly perpendicular to the planet's orbit, so that sunlight strikes the surface near the poles at a near-grazing angle. Because Mercury has no appreciable atmosphere, these areas without sunlight remain extremely cold. MLA will test whether these craters are sufficiently deep that the floors are indeed in permanent shadow. Most of the craters are small, however, and it is challenging to aim MLA with sufficient accuracy to obtain a profile across the crater floor. The science team decided that a promising approach would be to obtain as many laser tracks as possible near the north pole and then to search for those measurements that fall inside shadowed craters. [Figure 2] Radar image of polar deposits near Mercury's north pole. The radar-bright areas coincide with the floors of near-polar impact craters. The arrow points to the crater crossed by the MLA profile during its first operations at Mercury. The image is from J. K. Harmon, M. A. Slade, and M. S. Rice, Icarus, 211, 37-50, 2011. This plan turned out better than expected. On the very first pass, shown in Figure 1, the laser track passed directly across a small, deep crater with a floor that is highly reflective to radar, one of the candidate locations for water ice (arrow in Figure 2). The low, blue part of the track (arrow in Figure 1 inset) is the portion within the crater. The crater floor displays the lowest elevations along the track and is sufficiently deep for the floor to be permanently shadowed. Throughout MESSENGER's one-year primary mission, many more MLA measurements of floor depths of craters near the north pole are expected. With these data, we will be able to test whether the imaged locations of strong radar reflections always coincide with areas in permanent shadow. For more information on the Mercury Laser Altimeter (MLA), see http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/instruments/MLA.html. For
[meteorite-list] Meteors from Halley's Comet
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/27apr_eta/ Meteors from Halley's Comet NASA Science News April 27, 2011: Looking for an adventure? Get up in the wee hours of the morning May 6th and head out into the country, far from the city lights. You won't be alone. The birds will be up and singing about the coming dawn, and, of course, about the eta Aquarid meteor shower. The eta Aquarids are best viewed from the southern hemisphere, but there's something special about them no matter where you live: Each eta Aquarid meteoroid is a piece of Halley's Comet doing a kamikaze death dive into the atmosphere, explains NASA astronomer Bill Cooke. Many people have never seen this famous comet, but on the morning of May 6^th they can watch bits of it leave fiery trails across the sky. A messenger from the dawn of the universe, Halley's Comet orbits the sun once every 76 years. Each time it swings by the sun, intense solar heat vaporizes about 6 meters of ice and rock from the nucleus. The debris particles, about the size of sand grains, spread along the comet's orbit, filling it with tiny meteoroids. Although Halley's Comet is deep in the outer solar system at the moment and won't return to Earth until 2061, it treats us to a meteor shower twice a year as our planet passes by the debris cloud, says Cooke. In May we have the eta Aquarids, and in October the Orionids. And there is something especially significant about the 2011 eta Aquarids. This is your one chance this year to see meteors blaze across the sky without glaring moonlight dimming them. A thin crescent moon will vacate the sky in the early evening, leaving a dark canvas for the display. Early risers are in luck, as the best viewing is an hour or two before dawn. Lie down where you can see as wide an expanse of sky as possible to catch more meteors with your peripheral vision. Look up into the darkness and relax. The radiant for the eta Aquarids is in the constellation Aquarius: diagram https://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2011/04/26/radiant.jpg. But you don't need to look toward the radiant to see the meteors. Meteors can appear in any part of the sky, says Cooke. In fact their trails will tend to point back toward the radiant, so if you look that way the meteor may appear somewhat stubby. They'll appear much longer going by you than coming at you. You won't need binoculars or a telescope to observe eta Aquarid meteors. The naked eye's field of view is usually best for seeing meteors, which frequently streak more than 45 degrees across the sky. Eta Aquarids are fast, moving at 66 km/s (148,000 mph!), and often trace long paths across the sky, sometimes leaving glowing, persistent trains. In the northern hemisphere, depending on your latitude [the closer to the equator the better], you should see from 10 to 40 meteors just before dawn. Remember to pack a reclining chair or an old blanket to lie on, and a thermos of hot coffee would be nice. After all, you'll be up mighty early! The spring night air may be damp and chill, so bring along another blanket--or better yet, a big furry dog, both for warmth and company. Golden Retrievers work nicely. It's sure to be a memorable experience. A night breeze caressing your cheek, the aroma of hot coffee in the predawn air, a gently rising chorus of birdsong accompanying your own personal light show -- and your greatest admirer by your side. It just doesn't get any better. Author: Dauna Coulter Editor: Dr. Tony Phillips Credit: Science@NASA More Information On May 5, NASA meteor experts will host an afternoon live Web chat from 2-3 p.m. Central time and an up all night chat from 10 p.m. on the 5^th to 4 a.m. on the 6^th (Central time). Get ready to help NASA watch the skies! Join live Web discussion about this shower -- spawned by Halley's Comet! -- and all things meteoric. Details here... http://www.nasa.gov/connect/chat/aquarids2011.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteors from Halley's Comet
Every time I have made plans to watch a meteor shower, I was disappointed. I'd bring out the lounge chair, cigars, coffee, and my patient eyes. After hours of gazing skywards, my meteor count would be 2 or 3. On the other hand, whenever I would set up my scope with the intention of doing some routine stargazing, I'd always catch a stray meteor or two. One night, with no meteor shower on the calendar, I saw 7 stray meteors - that's beats my total for any meteor shower. Go figure. :) Oh well, a night out disappointed by a meteor shower, beats a night inside complaining on the internet about it. ;) Best regards, MikeG --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 On 4/27/11, Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov wrote: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/27apr_eta/ Meteors from Halley's Comet NASA Science News April 27, 2011: Looking for an adventure? Get up in the wee hours of the morning May 6th and head out into the country, far from the city lights. You won't be alone. The birds will be up and singing about the coming dawn, and, of course, about the eta Aquarid meteor shower. The eta Aquarids are best viewed from the southern hemisphere, but there's something special about them no matter where you live: Each eta Aquarid meteoroid is a piece of Halley's Comet doing a kamikaze death dive into the atmosphere, explains NASA astronomer Bill Cooke. Many people have never seen this famous comet, but on the morning of May 6^th they can watch bits of it leave fiery trails across the sky. A messenger from the dawn of the universe, Halley's Comet orbits the sun once every 76 years. Each time it swings by the sun, intense solar heat vaporizes about 6 meters of ice and rock from the nucleus. The debris particles, about the size of sand grains, spread along the comet's orbit, filling it with tiny meteoroids. Although Halley's Comet is deep in the outer solar system at the moment and won't return to Earth until 2061, it treats us to a meteor shower twice a year as our planet passes by the debris cloud, says Cooke. In May we have the eta Aquarids, and in October the Orionids. And there is something especially significant about the 2011 eta Aquarids. This is your one chance this year to see meteors blaze across the sky without glaring moonlight dimming them. A thin crescent moon will vacate the sky in the early evening, leaving a dark canvas for the display. Early risers are in luck, as the best viewing is an hour or two before dawn. Lie down where you can see as wide an expanse of sky as possible to catch more meteors with your peripheral vision. Look up into the darkness and relax. The radiant for the eta Aquarids is in the constellation Aquarius: diagram https://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2011/04/26/radiant.jpg. But you don't need to look toward the radiant to see the meteors. Meteors can appear in any part of the sky, says Cooke. In fact their trails will tend to point back toward the radiant, so if you look that way the meteor may appear somewhat stubby. They'll appear much longer going by you than coming at you. You won't need binoculars or a telescope to observe eta Aquarid meteors. The naked eye's field of view is usually best for seeing meteors, which frequently streak more than 45 degrees across the sky. Eta Aquarids are fast, moving at 66 km/s (148,000 mph!), and often trace long paths across the sky, sometimes leaving glowing, persistent trains. In the northern hemisphere, depending on your latitude [the closer to the equator the better], you should see from 10 to 40 meteors just before dawn. Remember to pack a reclining chair or an old blanket to lie on, and a thermos of hot coffee would be nice. After all, you'll be up mighty early! The spring night air may be damp and chill, so bring along another blanket--or better yet, a big furry dog, both for warmth and company. Golden Retrievers work nicely. It's sure to be a memorable experience. A night breeze caressing your cheek, the aroma of hot coffee in the predawn air, a gently rising chorus of birdsong accompanying your own personal light show -- and your greatest admirer by your side. It just doesn't get any better. Author: Dauna Coulter Editor: Dr. Tony Phillips Credit: Science@NASA More Information On May 5, NASA meteor experts will host an afternoon live Web chat from 2-3 p.m. Central time and an up all night chat from 10 p.m. on the 5^th to 4 a.m. on the 6^th (Central time). Get ready to help NASA watch the skies! Join live Web
Re: [meteorite-list] KT extinction impacts
Very Nice Calculator, Keith And useful for a wide variety of cases. A sophisticated model behind it. But... we know E. P. -- I suspect he's interested in Big Thumpers, mostly. And the bigger (and faster) the impactor, the more energy-dominated the event becomes. And since the topic was the K-T Visitor, I assumed we were talkin' Big... Not the size of Texas, as the memorable Billy Bob Thornton line has it, but Big... I noted that I stole this from the very best sources, namely John S. Lewis' Physics and Chemistry of the Solar System, Second Edition (pp.438-445). And simplified it slightly. And when I plug suitably big and fast impactors into your model, I get results essentially similar to the thumb rules, but that's because I'm choosing events in size Large, X-Large, and 2X-Large... No, it's the Devilishly Small impactors, where a variety of factors matter greatly, that are a mess to calculate. Now, I will go back to my favorite Impact Calculator Game: finding the inputs that will land a 100-ton HOBA without making a crater... or a pit. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Keith Holsapple holsap...@aa.washington.edu To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: E.P. Grondine epgrond...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; ACC Bill Allen bal...@hohmanntransfer.com; Astronomer m...@star.arm.ac.uk; Ted Bunch tbe...@cableone.net; burc...@math.okstate.edu; phil burns p...@pibburns.com; c.leroy.ellenber...@wharton.upenn.edu; cavet...@aol.com; dal...@ldeo.columbia.edu; d...@star.arm.ac.uk; Duncan duncanst...@grapevine.com.au; Leroy Ellenberger c.le...@rocketmail.com; Richard Firestone rbfirest...@lbl.gov; Richard Firestone r...@lbl.gov; George Howard geo...@restorationsystems.com; Elton Jones mstrema...@yahoo.com; Kennett dkenn...@uoregon.edu; Bob Kobres bkob...@uga.edu; Raoul Lannoy raoul.lan...@pandora.be; W. Bruce Masse wbma...@lanl.gov; napie...@cardiff.ac.uk; bernd pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de; Benny Peiser benny.pei...@thegwpf.org; Tree Rings m.bail...@qub.ac.uk; Peter Schultz peter_schu...@brown.edu; tanke...@uc.edu; Oscar Alfredo Turone oatur...@sinectis.com.ar; Allen West allen7...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] KT extinction impacts I think we can make much better estimates based on modern crater scaling theories than the old (1960's) energy-based ones. And while the scaling may be complex to a newbie, it is easily evaluated: I invite anyone to make use of my web page at http://keith.aa.washington.edu/craterdata/scaling/index.htm and push the buttons to estimate the crater from any impact or explosive source. On Apr 26, 2011, at 9:55 PM, Sterling K. Webb wrote: Dear E.P. Sterling, do you have a public formula handy for converting craters into megatons in a very rough number? ...perhaps he will generate a very easy to use oversimplified rough approximation formula for Earth impacts. There ARE some simplified model equations for crater size and impact energy, hence impactor size, and there certainly are some quick and rough ones. [Note: I stole this from the very best sources...] Consider a 100-m chunk of asteroidal material encountering the surface of a rocky planet at a speed of 20 km/s. The kinetic energy density of the impactor is 1/2 (2 x 10^6)^2 or 2 x 10^12 erg/g. The energy required to crush a typical rock is a little above 10^8 erg/g. [A joule is 10^7 ergs] To heat it to its melting point requires about 10^10 erg/g and to vaporize it requires less than 10^11 erg/g. Thus the impactor carries enough kinetic energy to not only vaporize itself completely, but also crush up to roughly 1000 times its own mass of target rock, melt roughly 100 times its own mass, or vaporize about 10 times its own mass. Alternatively, it carries enough kinetic energy to accelerate 100 times its own mass to a speed of 0.1 times its impact speed. In reality, an impact does all of these things to some degree and divides its energy over all these possible outcomes. Thus an impactor may crush 1000 times its own mass of rock, melt 10 times its mass, vaporize a few times its own mass, and eject 100 times its mass at speeds of tens to hundreds of meters per second and still give off a substantial amount of energy as seismic waves and radiation from the fireball. Crater sizes are of course generally related to the kinetic energy content of the impactor. For relatively SMALL impacts the critical factor in determining the target's resistance to the explosion is the strength of the material, S (dyn/cu.cm.). If S density x g x crater diameter at the level of the target surface, then the crater excavation process is strength limited (the g equals the surface gravity of the planet; in the case of Earth, g = 1). In this case, the diameter scales as: D (km) roughly equals the cube root of W, where W is the explosion energy in
[meteorite-list] Micromounts needed
Hi Meteoritophiles, A friend of mine is putting together a type collection and he has hit a wall with certain types. I promised to help, but some of these types are very rare or not in my collection. I am looking to buy a small micro of each of the following types. For the really rare types, I don't expect anything big - just a crumb to fill a hole in the collection. Here is what I need, contact me off-list with any offers - 1) acapulcoite 2) winonaite 3) chassignite 4) ureilite 5) gibeon (small piece, not something I keep handy) 6) murchison Best regards, MikeG --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
