[meteorite-list] 2011 MD Animation
I got a few positional images of this object with our 1.5-m (60) on Mt. Lemmon last night, but Jure Skvarč at the Črni Vrh Observatory in Slovenia obtained one of the nicer time lapse animations of the asteroids motion against the background stars. He writes on his Youtube page: The images for this animation were taken using a 60-cm telescope from the Črni Vrh Observatory on the night of 26 July 2011. Each exposure was of 15 seconds. The telescope was tracking on the asteroid, changing the rate of tracking between exposures. The entire sequence lasted about 4h40m, during which 635 exposures were made. At the time the asteroid was less than 20 km from Earth. At the closest approach some 15 hours later the distance was about 2 km. 4 hours, 40 minutes of imaging the NEO until his dawn, compressed down to 43 seconds. Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-pv18xDWCY -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NASA could sell...
Hi Sterling and List, Hmm, don't tempt me! (actually Iv'e already built a probe (well a Helium Baloon, with Gamma probe and electronics) to go to into Nearspace, but somehow I think a moon shot might take me a while!! Maybe one day i'll get around to making a set of Massive Laser tweezers, and scoop some material off the lunar surface into an earth crossing trajectory!! ;) Seriously though - I'm fairly sure that in my lifetime some corporation or other (probably from China) will do a private sample return mission, so maybe i'll just hold out! Mark -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb [mailto:sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: 27 June 2011 21:43 To: Mark Ford; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA could sell... Mark, List, Go Get Your Own Moon Rocks! What? You say you can't afford a small intra-planetary vehicle, a little robot to go to the Moon and collect a few kilos of Moon Rocks for you? No problemo. Then what you need is is to buy a share of a private space company's Lunar Return Mission, right? Like: http://www.interorbital.com/Lunar%20Sample%20Return_1.htm All that is needed to secure a share of returned lunar material is a 10% deposit (against a $7500/gm cost). You say all you want is to put a micro-satellite into low Earth orbit, you say? They have a satellite kit (with launch included) for only $8,000: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/07/tubesat-personal-satellite/ You even get a free second launch if the first one fails. More about them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interorbital_Systems IOS holds an active Office of Commercial Space Transportation Launch License... is currently working on a line of launch vehicles aimed at winning the Google Lunar X Prize. The company was also a competitor for both the Ansari X-Prize and America's Space Prize... Sterling K. Webb Disclaimer: All email purchase advice is worth no more than the electrons used to send the emil, and my liability is limited to the cost of said electrons, which I would refund by mailing you a small, used button battery. - Original Message - From: Mark Ford mark.f...@ssl.gb.com To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA could sell... Personally I completely disagree with the cost estimate of 5-8 billion, a simple small robotic sample mission really ought to be not too difficult (Russia did Lunar sample return on a total shoestring in the 60's). I would send a simple, small lander, grab some rocks in a scoop then take off and return. (Turning the mission into a full rover prospecting mission is bound to increase the cost drastically!) The stardust mission for example cost around $200 Million (that was a sample return all be it a space capture). A lunar sample return would be much cheaper than a Martian one obviously, but small mars rocket motor designs and a return module have already been studied in several different NASA/ESA feasibility proposals, and I would be surprised if they cost anything like 5 Billion, I rekon it could be done for less than $500 Million, if it was a simple small grab and return system. I'd also do it using a cheaper and more fuel efficient return method than traditionally, such as Ion engine technology, it would take much longer but would require much less of a fuel payload than a conventional return to earth would, then I would advocate using the ISS as a capture and return lab, rather than risking a traditional re-entry, this would save money too, as you wouldn't be returning a complete re-entry vehicle back from mars! I think you would easily sell a few kilos of Apollo moon rock with no trouble at all, there are enough rich billionaires (probably they would not even be meteorite collectors) out there who would snap it up, it would be a truly unique opportunity this would attract plenty of speculators -it would be a different market than meteorite samples. Besides plenty of people would buy microscopic amounts (put me down for an Apollo 11 super-micro any time!!). Best, Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann Sent: 27 June 2011 13:13 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA could sell... Hi Mark, I estimate we probably could fund an automatic sample return mission to both mars [and] to the moon, just for the 'cost' of a few off cut Apollo lunar chunks.. Well the cost estimation of an automatic Mars sample return mission, then a cooperation between NASA ESA - a rover probing different Martian rocks on surface - and where 500grams shall be expedited back to Earth - is estimated in the
Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 2011MD Bye-bye
Here's an image of 2011 MD I took yesterday morning some 5 hours before closest approach. It was already zipping fast (this is a 30 second exposure!): http://sattrackcam.blogspot.com/2011/06/ot-close-encounters-of-rocky-kind-2011.html I wholeheartedly agree with Rob: People are simply guilty of blindly believing their favorite piece of software, apparently ignorant of the limitations of non-integrating propagation. This happens all too often. - Marco Dr Marco (183294) Langbroek http://www.marcolangbroek.nl http://asteroids.marcolangbroek.nl - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteorite recovery)
Hm Michael, question - if you haven't any atmosphere, which could slow down the incoming meteorids, how many would survive the impact with cosmic velocities, such rocks are typically travelling with in the inner solar system, to such a degree, that they would lie there in nice sizes usually called stones? (Hmmm and when I'll drive there around with my car, how could I spot them, if they haven't any fusion crust or a different color from oxidation...) And if they survived the impact, how long would they survive without being crunched, smashed, pulverized by other impacts? A little space weathering we have there, but else no weathering and no geological activities for 3 billion years - but a permanent bombardment of small and large high velocity impacts - having hammered the complete lunar surface into a field of debris and dust. And if you look at the Apollo rocks or into your lunar meteorites, most of them witness an extraordinary violent history. Shocked, mixed, full of tiny fragments of different rocks, glasses, resolified dust...ect. On the other hand, iiif meteorites would survive all that on Moon, why then the astronauts didn't stumble every step over a meteorite, if they had 3 billion years to assemble there and no weathering, making them decaying? Would be my questions only (not knowledge). Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Michael Gilmer Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Juni 2011 04:08 An: James Beauchamp Cc: Edwin Thompson; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteorite recovery) Sorry for all of my typos - I meant to say : Well taken, and I agree. Part of their mission was to retrieve lunar samples, but imagine how many meteorites could be found if a team was put on to the lunar surface with the primary focus of finding meteorites and ignoring native lunar materials. :) I'll stop posting now, I am having typing issues and developing blabber mouth. LOL On 6/27/11, Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi James, Well taken, and I agree. Part of their mission was to retrieve lunar samples, but how imagine meteorites could be found if a team was put on to the lunar surface with the primary focus of finding meteorites and ignoring native lunar materials. :) Maybe Acme H3 Industries, Inc, will have the spare room in their underground base to lease out space to a meteorite hunting team, and the necessary scientific equipment to use for the mission (modified rovers, infrastructure, etc). Heck, the mining teams might unearth (unlune?) buried meteorites from under layers of regolith. Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 6/27/11, James Beauchamp falco...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The Apollo astronauts were not meteorite hunters, nor did they have any specific mission or training involving meteorites. Mike, I don't think that's quite correct. The Apollo crews were well versed in the expected geology, and were looking for quite a diverse lot of rocks. They spent many months training with geologists. Certainly, Dr. Schmitt was no exception on Apollo 17. From Earth to the Moon episode 10 was an excellent, even a bit romanticized focus on the geology focus. I think the focus was (and should have been) more anti-meteorite. We had plenty of those. But we didn't have verified lunar samples - to include cores and other different types. We needed more of those to verify the origins of our companion, and very little time and resources on-hand to get them. Just my thoughts on the matter. Obviously, I fully admit I should stay in my engineering corner, but couldn't help poking a little. :) --- On Mon, 6/27/11, Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteorite recovery) To: Edwin Thompson etmeteori...@hotmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, June 27, 2011, 7:43 PM Hi Edwin, Sterling, and List, I love a good science-fiction, science-fact, trip into speculation land. It reminds me of the old pulp sci-fi novels from the 50's and 60's that I have read, with rocketships and moon bases. Cosmic rays are not the only threat, there are also micro-meteorites and meteorites. The Late Heavy Bombardment is long over, but there is still a lot of debris
[meteorite-list] Middlesbrough meteorite impact pit cast
Hi all, I know lots of you now have a cast of the Middlesbrough meteorite so i thought you may be interested in seeing a cast of the Middlesbrough impact pit that i have acquired. Not yet mounted it properly in a display case but i plan on making a wooden crate which is how it was originally housed when the pit was originally dug up. In the same album are a couple of photos taken recently of me holding the Middlesbrough cast in front of the empty mounting that should house the meteorite itself. I am holding the cast, honest! ;-) Link is below: (http://s915.photobucket.com/albums/ac360/msgmeteorites/?albumview=slideshow) Cheers all Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Apollo Moon Rock Collection
Carl and all Listees Thank you for your erudite and well argued contribution. I could not agree more. Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals Department of Natural Sciences National Museums Collection Centre 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Scotland tel: 0131 247 4283 e-mail: p.david...@nms.ac.uk -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Carl Agee Sent: 27 June 2011 18:24 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] The Apollo Moon Rock Collection Having been in charge of the Apollo Collection as well as the other collections at NASA Johnson Space Center (JSC) from 1998-2002, here is my take on this discussion. One of the main goals of curation at JSC is preserving the collection for posterity and for future study with instruments not yet imagined or by scientists not yet born. The Moon rocks are treated like a national treasure. As many of you may know, the curation protocols at JSC are the gold standard for extraterrestrial sample handling. For example, the collection is kept in high purity nitrogen, only materials restricted to of short list of aluminum, stainless steel, and Teflon are allow to touch the samples. The curation facility was built as a clean lab with positive air pressure, airlocks, and is operated by a highly trained staff. The Lunar Vault is built to withstand hurricanes, tornadoes, and floods -- and just to be on the safe side NASA has placed 15% of the collection at White Sands Test Facility, a few miles outside Las Cruces, New Mexico, locked away for safe keeping just in case of a catastrophic loss of the Lunar Lab in Houston. When people think about what a Mars Sample Return Lab design might look like, the first place they start from is the Lunar Sample Lab. Clearly, JSC does a fabulous job of handling, curating, and keeping the lunar samples safe, there is no museum or private collector in the world that comes close to Lunar Lab quality. However, the one thing that I think is missing from this facility is an equally spectacular public outreach component. Sure, the public can look at a few Moon rocks at museum displays here and there nationwide, but very few people ever get the privilege of being a visitor at the Lunar Lab. It is NOT open to the public. I think NASA, and JSC in particular, could enhance its image and boost public excitement and support for astromaterials research by somehow giving better public access to view these crown jewels in their laboratory setting. You may have guessed already that I'm not a big proponent of selling off the Moon Rocks to fund NASA missions, as a few people on the list have proposed. Even if Americans thought this was a good idea, I am pretty sure we would come up a few billion dollars short to do anything like a decent robotic Mars Sample Return. Furthermore, I doubt if many Americans would be in favor of cutting up pieces of the Declaration of Indepence or chunks of the Liberty Bell to sell as high priced souvenirs, or sell off tracts of Yellowstone Park to reduce our nation's debt. But I do think the Lunar Collection could be opened up to the public in away that would be beneficial to everyone, not the least to NASA itself. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Airshow, Saturday 23 July, at the National Museum of Flight. New air displays for 2011. www.nms.ac.uk/airshow National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Thanks Matt Morgan - Mile High Meteorites
Hi Met-List Community, I want to personally thank Matt Morgan from Mile High Meteorites for helping me secure a beautiful Willamette meteorite (NOT shale) specimen for my private collection. I know many of you know Matt, but if you don't you should. He has to be one of the best people in the meteorite community. Thanks Matt for all the time and effort you afforded me in my quest. I'll be doing business with you in the near future, for sure. http://www.mhmeteorites.com/meteorites_sale.html http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=2830 Davio R. IMCA Member 4050 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteorite recovery)
Hi Martin, I'm no expert, I only play one on the met-list. ;) But, meteoroids and micrometeoroids would arrive on a variety entry angles and velocities. Some at steeper angles and high speeds, others at shallow or oblique angles and lower speeds. (lower being relative) I agree that the more friable types of meteorite would be shattered or obliterated on contact with the lunar surface - probably into unrecognizable bits and destined to become part of the lunar regolith gumbo. Some robust meteorite types like irons, would probably survive as well. Imagine a large crater maker type of impactor, the energies involved would be enormous. There could well be shock and shock heating effects that would char or blacken the surviving shrapnel. Since the lunar surface is predominately one narrow palette of indigenous color, we can rule out easily detecting any meteorites at a glance that are of that same color range - white, light grey, medium grey, dark grey, But, higher contrast types should be more visible to the trained eye - pallasites, stony iron, iron, Martian (!?), some other achondrites. Or, mount a spectrometer to the exploration rover and look for reflectance feedback from the landscape that matches preset meteorite types. I don't know, it's a fanciful whimsy across a distant and bleak world, and it makes for good speculation. :) Best regards, MikeG PS - we can see the larger impacts on the Moon here from Earth, by chancing across a flash of light on the lunar surface. Do we have any hard data on the approximate rate of impacts on the lunar surface? Our Apollo astronauts were driving golf balls and tooling around in a rover, and did any of them witness or sense any nearby or even distant impacts while they were there? Just curious -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 6/28/11, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hm Michael, question - if you haven't any atmosphere, which could slow down the incoming meteorids, how many would survive the impact with cosmic velocities, such rocks are typically travelling with in the inner solar system, to such a degree, that they would lie there in nice sizes usually called stones? (Hmmm and when I'll drive there around with my car, how could I spot them, if they haven't any fusion crust or a different color from oxidation...) And if they survived the impact, how long would they survive without being crunched, smashed, pulverized by other impacts? A little space weathering we have there, but else no weathering and no geological activities for 3 billion years - but a permanent bombardment of small and large high velocity impacts - having hammered the complete lunar surface into a field of debris and dust. And if you look at the Apollo rocks or into your lunar meteorites, most of them witness an extraordinary violent history. Shocked, mixed, full of tiny fragments of different rocks, glasses, resolified dust...ect. On the other hand, iiif meteorites would survive all that on Moon, why then the astronauts didn't stumble every step over a meteorite, if they had 3 billion years to assemble there and no weathering, making them decaying? Would be my questions only (not knowledge). Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Michael Gilmer Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Juni 2011 04:08 An: James Beauchamp Cc: Edwin Thompson; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteorite recovery) Sorry for all of my typos - I meant to say : Well taken, and I agree. Part of their mission was to retrieve lunar samples, but imagine how many meteorites could be found if a team was put on to the lunar surface with the primary focus of finding meteorites and ignoring native lunar materials. :) I'll stop posting now, I am having typing issues and developing blabber mouth. LOL On 6/27/11, Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi James, Well taken, and I agree. Part of their mission was to retrieve lunar samples, but how imagine meteorites could be found if a team was put on to the lunar surface with the primary focus of finding meteorites and ignoring native lunar materials. :) Maybe Acme H3 Industries, Inc, will have the spare room in their underground base to lease out space to a meteorite hunting team, and the necessary scientific equipment to use for the mission (modified rovers,
[meteorite-list] Apollo Samples
Hi Phil: There are many scientists worldwide who study the Apollo samples, some of them right here in New Mexico! The samples can be requested through the Lunar Sample Curator at NASA JSC, Dr. Gary Lofgren. http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/sampreq/index.cfm The request (proposal) is then evaluated by The Curation and Analysis Planning Team for Extraterrestrial Materials (CAPTEM). CAPTEM oversees the care and distribution of all extraterrestrial samples collected by NASA. The Chair of the CAPTEM is appointed to a two year term by the NASA Administrator, currently held by Dr. Meenakshi Wadhwa from ASU. Most of the CAPTEM committee members are NOT NASA civil servants or contractors, they are mostly lunar experts from universities and research institutes. For more information see http://www.lpi.usra.edu/captem/ The Lunar Exploration Analysis Group (LEAG) is responsible for analyzing scientific, technical, commercial, and operational issues associated with lunar exploration in response to requests by NASA. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/leag/ Best regards, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html Message: 1 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 22:11:19 -0400 From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Subject: [meteorite-list] The Apollo Moon Rock Collection To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 3D27E97D2DB94C51BC6D4BBFB73CFFA7@ET Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original As far as I can tell, bulk Apollo lunar material is studied by the NASA Lunar Science Institute. The guys that do the hands on work are known as the Lunar Exploration and Analysis Group or LEAG. One of the scientists doing analysis of moon rocks here at the University of Notre Dame uses the new multiple-collector-inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometer or MC-ICP-MS to determine the mineral composition of lunar impact melts to determine their petrogenesis and place constraints on the impactors and target lithologies. http://lunarscience.arc.nasa.gov/ http://www.lpi.usra.edu/nlsi/teamMembers/bios.shtml Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 2011 MD Animation
fantastic! thanks for sharing. On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 2:24 AM, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: I got a few positional images of this object with our 1.5-m (60) on Mt. Lemmon last night, but Jure Skvarč at the Črni Vrh Observatory in Slovenia obtained one of the nicer time lapse animations of the asteroids motion against the background stars. He writes on his Youtube page: The images for this animation were taken using a 60-cm telescope from the Črni Vrh Observatory on the night of 26 July 2011. Each exposure was of 15 seconds. The telescope was tracking on the asteroid, changing the rate of tracking between exposures. The entire sequence lasted about 4h40m, during which 635 exposures were made. At the time the asteroid was less than 20 km from Earth. At the closest approach some 15 hours later the distance was about 2 km. 4 hours, 40 minutes of imaging the NEO until his dawn, compressed down to 43 seconds. Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-pv18xDWCY -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Sweden / Finland Meteor 27JUN2011
Dear List, A rather large event with flash, sonics, and twisted contrail(?). Dirk Ross...Tokyo http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/06/sweden-green-bolide-meteor-fireball.html Several other events for 25, 26, 27 June as well... so check them out if you wish: http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteorite recovery)
I have studied, literally, thousands of Apollo regolith samples. I've analyzed fines samples (1-mm grain-size fraction) taken every half centimeter down several core tubes, including the 2-m long Apollo 16 deep drill core. I've analyzed several thousand individual rock fragments in the 0.05-4 mm size range from all 6 Apollo landing sites and 3 Luna landing sites. These fragments were sieved from bulk soil, so there's no astronaut bias. More recently, I and my colleagues have examined at least one stone of nearly every lunar meteorite, most of which are regolith or fragmental breccias that are loaded with rock clasts. There aren't any meteorites in the lunar regolith. OK, that's an overstatement, but it's a practical statement. We see the chemical signature of meteorites in nearly every sample. In fines samples, concentrations of Ni, Ir, and other siderophile elements are usually in chondritic proportions and at absolute levels corresponding to 1-4% chondritic material. This stuff is largely from micrometeorites but it must also include material vaporized and recondensed from impacts of ordinary chondrites. Impact glass and crystallized impact melt is ubiquitous in the lunar regolith, and that where the meteorites go. OK (again), there's Bench Crater and Hadley Rille, but these are pretty insignificant rocks compared to the mass of lunar regolith that has been examined. One of my colleagues recently spotted an olivine grain in a lunar meteorite that he thinks might have been from a meteorite. That was exciting. We find lots of fragments (globs in NWA 5000) of iron-nickel metal, but even these usually show the signs of having melted and resolidified as impact melt cooled. Think about it. If a rock hits the Moon at 20-40 km/s, what's going to happen to it? The Moon isn't Mars. Randy Korotev At 09:06 PM 2011-06-27 Monday, you wrote: Hi James, Well taken, and I agree. Part of their mission was to retrieve lunar samples, but how imagine meteorites could be found if a team was put on to the lunar surface with the primary focus of finding meteorites and ignoring native lunar materials. :) Maybe Acme H3 Industries, Inc, will have the spare room in their underground base to lease out space to a meteorite hunting team, and the necessary scientific equipment to use for the mission (modified rovers, infrastructure, etc). Heck, the mining teams might unearth (unlune?) buried meteorites from under layers of regolith. Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 6/27/11, James Beauchamp falco...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The Apollo astronauts were not meteorite hunters, nor did they have any specific mission or training involving meteorites. Mike, I don't think that's quite correct. The Apollo crews were well versed in the expected geology, and were looking for quite a diverse lot of rocks. They spent many months training with geologists. Certainly, Dr. Schmitt was no exception on Apollo 17. From Earth to the Moon episode 10 was an excellent, even a bit romanticized focus on the geology focus. I think the focus was (and should have been) more anti-meteorite. We had plenty of those. But we didn't have verified lunar samples - to include cores and other different types. We needed more of those to verify the origins of our companion, and very little time and resources on-hand to get them. Just my thoughts on the matter. Obviously, I fully admit I should stay in my engineering corner, but couldn't help poking a little. :) --- On Mon, 6/27/11, Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteorite recovery) To: Edwin Thompson etmeteori...@hotmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, June 27, 2011, 7:43 PM Hi Edwin, Sterling, and List, I love a good science-fiction, science-fact, trip into speculation land. It reminds me of the old pulp sci-fi novels from the 50's and 60's that I have read, with rocketships and moon bases. Cosmic rays are not the only threat, there are also micro-meteorites and meteorites. The Late Heavy Bombardment is long over, but there is still a lot of debris peppering the Earth and Moon on a regular basis. With no atmosphere, the lunar surface is basically naked to incoming impactors. A base facility on the lunar surface would be subject to high-velocity impacts on a random basis. Now we can all imagine how the lunar
Re: [meteorite-list] Lahcen Ait Ha and Gary
Salam ya sadiki Said, metlist members, In life it is best not to think of problems, but of solutions. Toward this end, I must give sincere thanks to my good friends in Morocco for helping to resolve a challenge I encountered during a recent transaction. Tanmirt Said Haddany, Aziz Habibi and Ali Oulmaleh! Many thanks also to Rachid Chaoui, Aid Mohamed, Ahmad Bouragaa, and many others who offered their assistance and moral support. I never lost my smile, for the loyal friendship of my brothers in Morocco have kept my faith strong! Now, the only question I have for them is, izdark lan izrane niguenwane? ;^) gary On Jun 27, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Said Haddany wrote: Hi List, today the story of Gary and Lahcen Ait Ha came to an end ..verything is alright and fixed..As he promised,Lahcen Ait Ha has brought back Gary`s money to me today. So,Gary show us your smile,please :-) So i would like to thank my Moroccan friends(Aziz Habibi and Ali Oulmah) who contributed to solve the problem.. best regards Said Haddany I.M.C.A # 8108 Morocco __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 2011 MD Animation
I'm counting what appear to be 17 fainter companion objects in parallel trajectories. Is that what I'm looking at or is it some sort of video artefact? If they are companions can their size be determined approximately from the relative brightness or by some other means? Thanks, John On 28/06/2011 01:24, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: I got a few positional images of this object with our 1.5-m (60) on Mt. Lemmon last night, but Jure Skvarč at the Črni Vrh Observatory in Slovenia obtained one of the nicer time lapse animations of the asteroids motion against the background stars. He writes on his Youtube page: The images for this animation were taken using a 60-cm telescope from the Črni Vrh Observatory on the night of 26 July 2011. Each exposure was of 15 seconds. The telescope was tracking on the asteroid, changing the rate of tracking between exposures. The entire sequence lasted about 4h40m, during which 635 exposures were made. At the time the asteroid was less than 20 km from Earth. At the closest approach some 15 hours later the distance was about 2 km. 4 hours, 40 minutes of imaging the NEO until his dawn, compressed down to 43 seconds. Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-pv18xDWCY -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Postal service to Canada
Aloha my meteorite friends to the north, Although Parliament has ended the postal lockout over the weekend, as of yesterday, USPS computer software was not processing shipments to Canada. So please have patience as our post office ramps up to restore service to your fine country. Mahalo nui for your business and understanding. Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE!!!!
Hello all, unfortunately I have found another person on ebay who is selling underweight lunar and martian material. His ebay ID is spaceterrain4sale and his first name is Ariel. He is advertising his mounts at 24mg each at the time i purchased.. i purchased a whole bunch from him for around 8.00 each thinking he was an honest seller and i liked the display cases they came in. When i got the items they looked very small... I decided to break open one of the mounts and weigh it on my diamond scale. IT ONLY WEIGHS 7 MG and this was the biggest piece.. if you are bidding on any of his items make sure you understand he is misleading people in the weight he is stating. his ebay ID is spaceterrain4sale just to let everybody know. I am talking to him now about getting a refund for all the mounts i bought another meteorite dealer ripping people off on ebay.. what a waste.. if he doesn't agree to refund me my money i will open a claim against him with paypal... i noticed on his new listings he is not stating the weight anymore but I am talking about the items i purchased and the listings at the time of when i purchased the items.. please beware of this guy. Daniel Furlan dealer and collector __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE!!!!
Short disclaimer: As we see our lunaite NWA 4881 and our shergottite NWA 4925 involved, only the quick remark, that we don't know, who this person is and that these mounts have nothing to do with our original display cases, which you are used to know for years from various offerors and shops around the world. Examples: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/moonrock2.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/boxes/Mars-XS-1.jpg (Anyway, I can't see any cleverness of that seller to re-pack the samples into other boxes, as the original boxes yield the same or higher results on ebay...). Best! Martin Martin Altmann Stefan Ralew Chladni's Heirs Munich - Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science Collectors http://www.chladnis-heirs.com -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Dan Furlan Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Juni 2011 17:24 An: met-list Betreff: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE Hello all, unfortunately I have found another person on ebay who is selling underweight lunar and martian material. His ebay ID is spaceterrain4sale and his first name is Ariel. He is advertising his mounts at 24mg each at the time i purchased.. i purchased a whole bunch from him for around 8.00 each thinking he was an honest seller and i liked the display cases they came in. When i got the items they looked very small... I decided to break open one of the mounts and weigh it on my diamond scale. IT ONLY WEIGHS 7 MG and this was the biggest piece.. if you are bidding on any of his items make sure you understand he is misleading people in the weight he is stating. his ebay ID is spaceterrain4sale just to let everybody know. I am talking to him now about getting a refund for all the mounts i bought another meteorite dealer ripping people off on ebay.. what a waste.. if he doesn't agree to refund me my money i will open a claim against him with paypal... i noticed on his new listings he is not stating the weight anymore but I am talking about the items i purchased and the listings at the time of when i purchased the items.. please beware of this guy. Daniel Furlan dealer and collector __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE!!!!
yes the material involved is NWA 4881 and NWA 4925 i dont think they are the same mounts as you are selling as the picture on the cover is different. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE!!!!
Hi Dan Your seller states: Authenticity Guaranteed and backed up by a 100% money back no questions asked return policy. Why not try to work the problem out first before airing dirty laundry in public? I don't know the guy, but your expecting $333/gram material while he's faced with the costs and having to make those nice cases and sell 42 of them per gram without a mg of waste, pay eBay and PayPal - sounds like you were being very unreasonable in your expectation, wholesale or not. Please don't take this the wrong way, a deal IS a deal. If there is a problem run from the deal to the fullest extent of your rights. ... You're right, there may be a hundred victims out there, although your message seems more irate about your personal dealing, likely to be caused by a copy paste of ebay auctions and has been corrected in all present auctions. Given the sentimental value I place on the Moon I am profoundly disappointed that we are faced with this for such revered treasures. I don't know the guy; I'm just ready for the funny-farm. Sorry for the first class rant. Best wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Dan Furlan danfur...@gmail.com To: met-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 11:24 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE Hello all, unfortunately I have found another person on ebay who is selling underweight lunar and martian material. His ebay ID is spaceterrain4sale and his first name is Ariel. He is advertising his mounts at 24mg each at the time i purchased.. i purchased a whole bunch from him for around 8.00 each thinking he was an honest seller and i liked the display cases they came in. When i got the items they looked very small... I decided to break open one of the mounts and weigh it on my diamond scale. IT ONLY WEIGHS 7 MG and this was the biggest piece.. if you are bidding on any of his items make sure you understand he is misleading people in the weight he is stating. his ebay ID is spaceterrain4sale just to let everybody know. I am talking to him now about getting a refund for all the mounts i bought another meteorite dealer ripping people off on ebay.. what a waste.. if he doesn't agree to refund me my money i will open a claim against him with paypal... i noticed on his new listings he is not stating the weight anymore but I am talking about the items i purchased and the listings at the time of when i purchased the items.. please beware of this guy. Daniel Furlan dealer and collector __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteorite recovery)
I agree completely with Randy. I believe it would be almost useless and highly improbable to find an actual meteorite on the moon. Even at 3km a second the impact would destroy all of the meteorite. I also believe it doesnt take a large meteorite to knock material off the moon. A baseball sized rock impacting at 40km/s would bore a hole several meters deep before it vaporized. Following the path of least resistance up to half the vaporized mass and some lunar material would be ejected back up the bore hole like a rifle, and at speeds up to 20km/s. It would be kind of like a bullet bouncing right back at you after hitting a steel plate. the best place to look for meteorites is right here on earth. Cheers Steve --- On Tue, 6/28/11, Randy Korotev koro...@wustl.edu wrote: From: Randy Korotev koro...@wustl.edu Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteorite recovery) To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, June 28, 2011, 2:13 PM I have studied, literally, thousands of Apollo regolith samples. I've analyzed fines samples (1-mm grain-size fraction) taken every half centimeter down several core tubes, including the 2-m long Apollo 16 deep drill core. I've analyzed several thousand individual rock fragments in the 0.05-4 mm size range from all 6 Apollo landing sites and 3 Luna landing sites. These fragments were sieved from bulk soil, so there's no astronaut bias. More recently, I and my colleagues have examined at least one stone of nearly every lunar meteorite, most of which are regolith or fragmental breccias that are loaded with rock clasts. There aren't any meteorites in the lunar regolith. OK, that's an overstatement, but it's a practical statement. We see the chemical signature of meteorites in nearly every sample. In fines samples, concentrations of Ni, Ir, and other siderophile elements are usually in chondritic proportions and at absolute levels corresponding to 1-4% chondritic material. This stuff is largely from micrometeorites but it must also include material vaporized and recondensed from impacts of ordinary chondrites. Impact glass and crystallized impact melt is ubiquitous in the lunar regolith, and that where the meteorites go. OK (again), there's Bench Crater and Hadley Rille, but these are pretty insignificant rocks compared to the mass of lunar regolith that has been examined. One of my colleagues recently spotted an olivine grain in a lunar meteorite that he thinks might have been from a meteorite. That was exciting. We find lots of fragments (globs in NWA 5000) of iron-nickel metal, but even these usually show the signs of having melted and resolidified as impact melt cooled. Think about it. If a rock hits the Moon at 20-40 km/s, what's going to happen to it? The Moon isn't Mars. Randy Korotev At 09:06 PM 2011-06-27 Monday, you wrote: Hi James, Well taken, and I agree. Part of their mission was to retrieve lunar samples, but how imagine meteorites could be found if a team was put on to the lunar surface with the primary focus of finding meteorites and ignoring native lunar materials. :) Maybe Acme H3 Industries, Inc, will have the spare room in their underground base to lease out space to a meteorite hunting team, and the necessary scientific equipment to use for the mission (modified rovers, infrastructure, etc). Heck, the mining teams might unearth (unlune?) buried meteorites from under layers of regolith. Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 6/27/11, James Beauchamp falco...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The Apollo astronauts were not meteorite hunters, nor did they have any specific mission or training involving meteorites. Mike, I don't think that's quite correct. The Apollo crews were well versed in the expected geology, and were looking for quite a diverse lot of rocks. They spent many months training with geologists. Certainly, Dr. Schmitt was no exception on Apollo 17. From Earth to the Moon episode 10 was an excellent, even a bit romanticized focus on the geology focus. I think the focus was (and should have been) more anti-meteorite. We had plenty of those. But we didn't have verified lunar samples - to include cores and other different types. We needed more of those to verify the origins of our companion, and very little time and resources on-hand to get
[meteorite-list] wallpaper for free; Ghubara iron chondrule; green pyroxene chondrule
Hi Met friends, the first 20 email requests get free on of this nice wallpapers/posters in the size of 12,000 x 9,000 pixels, 33.33 x 25.00'' (print density 360pxs/inch) . Small images visible on https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=C5EB7008572EC0F7id=C5EB7008572EC0F7%21145sc=photos https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=C5EB7008572EC0F7id=C5EB7008572EC0F7%21172sc=photos The first image shows an iron chondrule of a Ghubara and the second a nice green pyroxene chondrule of a NWA 869. Magnification is appr. 300 x. Cross polarized reflecting light of an ultrapolished surface (MESH 25,000) regards Uwe m42protosun Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Long Live the Nakhla Dog! 100 Years Ago in Egypt 28JUN1911 28JUN2011
List, Some of you may like a good dog vs meteorite story: Long Live the Nakhla Dog! 100 Years Ago in Egypt 28JUN1911 28JUN2011 http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/06/long-live-nakhla-dog-100-years-ago-in.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 2011 MD Animation
Thanks Richard, that is pretty cool!! -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC IMCA#9052 http://www.facebook.com/Stuart.McDaniel.No.1 Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: = I got a few positional images of this object with our 1.5-m (60) on Mt. Lemmon last night, but Jure Skvarč at the Črni Vrh Observatory in Slovenia obtained one of the nicer time lapse animations of the asteroids motion against the background stars. He writes on his Youtube page: The images for this animation were taken using a 60-cm telescope from the Črni Vrh Observatory on the night of 26 July 2011. Each exposure was of 15 seconds. The telescope was tracking on the asteroid, changing the rate of tracking between exposures. The entire sequence lasted about 4h40m, during which 635 exposures were made. At the time the asteroid was less than 20 km from Earth. At the closest approach some 15 hours later the distance was about 2 km. 4 hours, 40 minutes of imaging the NEO until his dawn, compressed down to 43 seconds. Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-pv18xDWCY -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Postal service to Canada
Thanks for the heads up, Gary! --- -Melanie MetMel - avid meteorite collector/enthusiast from Canada! IMCA#: 2975 eBay: metmel2775 I eat, sleep and breath meteorites 24/7. - Original Message From: Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com To: MeteorList meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, June 28, 2011 8:19:39 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Postal service to Canada Aloha my meteorite friends to the north, Although Parliament has ended the postal lockout over the weekend, as of yesterday, USPS computer software was not processing shipments to Canada. So please have patience as our post office ramps up to restore service to your fine country. Mahalo nui for your business and understanding. Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE!!!!
Excuse me? i highly doubt expecting to get what i pay for is being unreasonable. Daniel Furlan On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 12:06 PM, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: Hi Dan Your seller states: Authenticity Guaranteed and backed up by a 100% money back no questions asked return policy. Why not try to work the problem out first before airing dirty laundry in public? I don't know the guy, but your expecting $333/gram material while he's faced with the costs and having to make those nice cases and sell 42 of them per gram without a mg of waste, pay eBay and PayPal - sounds like you were being very unreasonable in your expectation, wholesale or not. Please don't take this the wrong way, a deal IS a deal. If there is a problem run from the deal to the fullest extent of your rights. ... You're right, there may be a hundred victims out there, although your message seems more irate about your personal dealing, likely to be caused by a copy paste of ebay auctions and has been corrected in all present auctions. Given the sentimental value I place on the Moon I am profoundly disappointed that we are faced with this for such revered treasures. I don't know the guy; I'm just ready for the funny-farm. Sorry for the first class rant. Best wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Dan Furlan danfur...@gmail.com To: met-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 11:24 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE Hello all, unfortunately I have found another person on ebay who is selling underweight lunar and martian material. His ebay ID is spaceterrain4sale and his first name is Ariel. He is advertising his mounts at 24mg each at the time i purchased.. i purchased a whole bunch from him for around 8.00 each thinking he was an honest seller and i liked the display cases they came in. When i got the items they looked very small... I decided to break open one of the mounts and weigh it on my diamond scale. IT ONLY WEIGHS 7 MG and this was the biggest piece.. if you are bidding on any of his items make sure you understand he is misleading people in the weight he is stating. his ebay ID is spaceterrain4sale just to let everybody know. I am talking to him now about getting a refund for all the mounts i bought another meteorite dealer ripping people off on ebay.. what a waste.. if he doesn't agree to refund me my money i will open a claim against him with paypal... i noticed on his new listings he is not stating the weight anymore but I am talking about the items i purchased and the listings at the time of when i purchased the items.. please beware of this guy. Daniel Furlan dealer and collector __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Thanks Matt Morgan - Mile High Meteorites
Here here! Some of my favorite pieces in my collection came from Matt. He's a stand-up guy with some great space rocks to share! -Michael in so. Cal. On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:56 AM, Davio L. Ribeca dav...@comcast.net wrote: Hi Met-List Community, I want to personally thank Matt Morgan from Mile High Meteorites for helping me secure a beautiful Willamette meteorite (NOT shale) specimen for my private collection. I know many of you know Matt, but if you don't you should. He has to be one of the best people in the meteorite community. Thanks Matt for all the time and effort you afforded me in my quest. I'll be doing business with you in the near future, for sure. http://www.mhmeteorites.com/meteorites_sale.html http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=2830 Davio R. IMCA Member 4050 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE!!!!
One more thing, I just went and checked ALL this sellers items, and he still has some of the same mounts listed at .024 grams which is 24mg So he hasn't actually changed all his listings and is still selling the same mounts with the wrong weights stated.. I know for sure because i busted open a few of these mounts and weighed them on my diamond scale and they weighed 7mg. a lot smaller then stated in the listings. http://cgi.ebay.ca/NWA-4881-LUNAR-METEORITE-REAL-RARE-MOON-ROCK-/250820087538?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item3a660acef2#ht_500wt_1156 Daniel Furlan On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Dan Furlan danfur...@gmail.com wrote: Excuse me? i highly doubt expecting to get what i pay for is being unreasonable. Daniel Furlan On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 12:06 PM, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: Hi Dan Your seller states: Authenticity Guaranteed and backed up by a 100% money back no questions asked return policy. Why not try to work the problem out first before airing dirty laundry in public? I don't know the guy, but your expecting $333/gram material while he's faced with the costs and having to make those nice cases and sell 42 of them per gram without a mg of waste, pay eBay and PayPal - sounds like you were being very unreasonable in your expectation, wholesale or not. Please don't take this the wrong way, a deal IS a deal. If there is a problem run from the deal to the fullest extent of your rights. ... You're right, there may be a hundred victims out there, although your message seems more irate about your personal dealing, likely to be caused by a copy paste of ebay auctions and has been corrected in all present auctions. Given the sentimental value I place on the Moon I am profoundly disappointed that we are faced with this for such revered treasures. I don't know the guy; I'm just ready for the funny-farm. Sorry for the first class rant. Best wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Dan Furlan danfur...@gmail.com To: met-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 11:24 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE Hello all, unfortunately I have found another person on ebay who is selling underweight lunar and martian material. His ebay ID is spaceterrain4sale and his first name is Ariel. He is advertising his mounts at 24mg each at the time i purchased.. i purchased a whole bunch from him for around 8.00 each thinking he was an honest seller and i liked the display cases they came in. When i got the items they looked very small... I decided to break open one of the mounts and weigh it on my diamond scale. IT ONLY WEIGHS 7 MG and this was the biggest piece.. if you are bidding on any of his items make sure you understand he is misleading people in the weight he is stating. his ebay ID is spaceterrain4sale just to let everybody know. I am talking to him now about getting a refund for all the mounts i bought another meteorite dealer ripping people off on ebay.. what a waste.. if he doesn't agree to refund me my money i will open a claim against him with paypal... i noticed on his new listings he is not stating the weight anymore but I am talking about the items i purchased and the listings at the time of when i purchased the items.. please beware of this guy. Daniel Furlan dealer and collector __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 2011 MD Animation
Hi John. What you are seeing are not companions but instead are imaging artifacts called hot pixels. They are pixels that have a non linear response and are normal. Astronomical imagers usually use a technique called Dark Frame Subtraction to remove these hot pixels from the image. I imagine Yure had some reason why he didn't apply the dark. Another technique to reduce hot pixels is to lower the temperature of the imaging chip that as the response of these pixels becomes more linear again as the chip gets colder. Many use a combination of both cooling and dark frames. Professional observatories cool our cameras so cold that we don't have these hot pixels and don't need to this step during image processing. Hope this helps. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 - Original Message - From: John Hendry p...@pict.co.uk To: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com; meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 2011 MD Animation I'm counting what appear to be 17 fainter companion objects in parallel trajectories. Is that what I'm looking at or is it some sort of video artefact? If they are companions can their size be determined approximately from the relative brightness or by some other means? Thanks, John On 28/06/2011 01:24, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: I got a few positional images of this object with our 1.5-m (60) on Mt. Lemmon last night, but Jure Skvarč at the Črni Vrh Observatory in Slovenia obtained one of the nicer time lapse animations of the asteroids motion against the background stars. He writes on his Youtube page: The images for this animation were taken using a 60-cm telescope from the Črni Vrh Observatory on the night of 26 July 2011. Each exposure was of 15 seconds. The telescope was tracking on the asteroid, changing the rate of tracking between exposures. The entire sequence lasted about 4h40m, during which 635 exposures were made. At the time the asteroid was less than 20 km from Earth. At the closest approach some 15 hours later the distance was about 2 km. 4 hours, 40 minutes of imaging the NEO until his dawn, compressed down to 43 seconds. Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-pv18xDWCY -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT More Wrongway GPS Navigation
Dear Friends, Back in April of 2011, there was a discussion of the need to use common sense in using GPS for navigation in “Death by GPS in desert” at: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2011-April/075724.html Recently, there was an example of the need to be careful about navigating with GPS in: Visitors in SUV follow GPS directions into Mercer Slough by - Jessie Van Berkel, The Seattle Times, June 15, 2011 http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015332317_gps16m.html Wrong way! Three women escape from sinking car after GPS device sends them into lake, Mail Online June 15, 2011 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2003998/Wrong-way-Three-women-escape-sinking-car-GPS-device-sends-lake.html Girls escape sinking car after crashing into Mercer Slough http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCmFXWYvXrA Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 2011 MD Animation
Looks to be tumbling as brightness changes. Chris. Spratt Victoria, BC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 2011 MD Animation
Thanks Richard I get it. I think my Nikon DSLR can be set to perform a similar technique for noise reduction using a dark frame subtraction with the dark frame getting an equal exposure time as the image to be processed. John On 28/06/2011 12:43, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi John. What you are seeing are not companions but instead are imaging artifacts called hot pixels. They are pixels that have a non linear response and are normal. Astronomical imagers usually use a technique called Dark Frame Subtraction to remove these hot pixels from the image. I imagine Yure had some reason why he didn't apply the dark. Another technique to reduce hot pixels is to lower the temperature of the imaging chip that as the response of these pixels becomes more linear again as the chip gets colder. Many use a combination of both cooling and dark frames. Professional observatories cool our cameras so cold that we don't have these hot pixels and don't need to this step during image processing. Hope this helps. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 - Original Message - From: John Hendry p...@pict.co.uk To: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com; meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 2011 MD Animation I'm counting what appear to be 17 fainter companion objects in parallel trajectories. Is that what I'm looking at or is it some sort of video artefact? If they are companions can their size be determined approximately from the relative brightness or by some other means? Thanks, John On 28/06/2011 01:24, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: I got a few positional images of this object with our 1.5-m (60) on Mt. Lemmon last night, but Jure Skvarč at the Črni Vrh Observatory in Slovenia obtained one of the nicer time lapse animations of the asteroids motion against the background stars. He writes on his Youtube page: The images for this animation were taken using a 60-cm telescope from the Črni Vrh Observatory on the night of 26 July 2011. Each exposure was of 15 seconds. The telescope was tracking on the asteroid, changing the rate of tracking between exposures. The entire sequence lasted about 4h40m, during which 635 exposures were made. At the time the asteroid was less than 20 km from Earth. At the closest approach some 15 hours later the distance was about 2 km. 4 hours, 40 minutes of imaging the NEO until his dawn, compressed down to 43 seconds. Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-pv18xDWCY -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT More Wrongway GPS Navigation
Recently, there was an example of the need to be careful about navigating with GPS in: If someone dont learn good enough how to use his brain, dont expect he can use car + GPS correctly :) Thats sad. But ofcourse shit happends depends of situation. But sometimes ppl do strange things. -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) 567667 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Long Live the Nakhla Dog! 100 Years Ago in Egypt 28JUN1911 28JUN2011
Happy Birthday El-Nakhla Greg S I heard this on the radio this morning on Star-Date as I was getting ready for work. A wonderful little radio broadcast I must say. Here's the site: http://stardate.org/radio/program/2011-06-28 More Moon and Mars June 28, 2011 Showers of any kind are rare in the Egyptian desert. But the people of El-Nakhla, near Alexandria, were especially surprised when a shower of black stones fell on their village 100 years ago today. Some were tiny slivers, while others were as big as a fist. Some buried themselves up to a foot deep in the desert sands. And one supposedly killed a dog -- a story that's grown in stature over the years, although there's no confirmation. The stones were part of a space rock that exploded as it zipped through the atmosphere. Its origin? The planet Mars. Egypt's leading geologist visited the site soon after the shower. He led an effort that collected about 40 samples. Most of them were coated with a black crust -- the result of heating during the brief plunge into the atmosphere. Collectively, the samples are known as the Nakhla meteorite. Decades later, scientists discovered that Nakhla came from Mars. Tiny bubbles of gas in the meteorite match the composition of the Martian atmosphere. Nakhla is about 1.4 billion years old. It contains minerals that tell us it formed in a watery environment. It was blasted into space when an asteroid slammed into Mars -- setting a chunk of the Martian crust on a collision course with Earth. Mars is climbing into view in the dawn sky. It looks like a bright orange star. Tomorrow, it's to the upper right of the crescent Moon. The true star Aldebaran, which also shines orange, is closer to the Moon. Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 09:25:13 -0700 From: drtan...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Long Live the Nakhla Dog! 100 Years Ago in Egypt 28JUN1911 28JUN2011 List, Some of you may like a good dog vs meteorite story: Long Live the Nakhla Dog! 100 Years Ago in Egypt 28JUN1911 28JUN2011 http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/06/long-live-nakhla-dog-100-years-ago-in.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT More Wrongway GPS Navigation
List: The GPS may put on roads you have never heard of, or turns that don't appear to be there... but, I always arrive at my destination at the time the GPS says... having said that... how many years have we been using maps, and arriving at our destinations... just fine? Greg S From: mar...@meteoryt.net To: oxytropidoce...@cox.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 20:23:08 +0200 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT More Wrongway GPS Navigation Recently, there was an example of the need to be careful about navigating with GPS in: If someone dont learn good enough how to use his brain, dont expect he can use car + GPS correctly :) Thats sad. But ofcourse shit happends depends of situation. But sometimes ppl do strange things. -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) 567667 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery)
Just to cherry-pick one question: Do we have any hard data on the approximate rate of impacts on the lunar surface? Lunar seismic data should show the larger impacts, but the analysis is controversial. More recent (and more sophisticated) analysis shows more impacts than we once thought. But the simple physical reality is that meteoroids come from far away toward the Earth-Moon System. The collisional cross-section is influenced by the gravity field of the Earth-Moon System as the meteoroid approaches. Geometrically, the fall influx of the Moon should be about 1/16th of the Earth's, but gravitational focusing reduces that to 1/18th -- the Earth hogs the meteoroids. So, on a square-mile-basis, the Moon gets 12% fewer meteorites than the Earth. But those figures are for the top of the atmosphere. On the Moon, the surface IS the top of the atmosphere! On the Earth, we know (roughly) the fall rate BENEATH the atmosphere, but not at the top of the atmosphere. Well, you say, meteorites that don't survive are converted to dust particles in ablative trails, so just determine how much dust gets from space to the Earth's surface. Easy. Seriously complicating that simple idea is the large amount of meteoric dust, as opposed to meteoritic dust. That is, material from meteor streams, which is mostly dust to begin with, so adds only a little to the lunar impact hazard. (There are larger pieces in meteor streams and monitoring the Moon for impacts during periodic showers always produces a few visible flashes from energetic events... but only a few.) The long-term dust influx preserved in the Earth's ocean sediments is about 25,000 tons per year. The total mass of meteorites arriving at the surface of the Earth is likely between 2000 and 3000 TONS per year. Or maybe 200 to 300 tons, depending on whether you favor 90% ablative loss or 99% ablative loss. That figure may astound, but it's clear that less than 1% of all meteorites that survive to the surface are recovered Based on these figures for the Earth, the Moon would get 1300 tons of dust and particles, 140 tons of which would be particles big enough to worry about. On a square-mile basis, the likelihood of a meteorite impact of some size bigger than dust is probably 8 to 12 times greater than the risk of being whacked on a square mile of the Earth. But the fact is that even that risk is tiny. Not just tiny, but tiny-tiny-tiny-tiny-tiny-tiny-tiny-tiny! Ten times super-tiny is still, well, TINY. Even if the risk were 100 times greater , it would still be tiny. Try an experiment. Put up a tray the size of a lunar hut in your yard, covered with a film that will exclude dust, leaves, twigs, that only a meteorite could puncture, and wait to collect a meteorite. When you do, divide the wait-time by 10 (or 100 if you like that better), and you have the risk of lunar meteorite impact, the mean wait time to an impact (at a minimum). And, because we worry about it, every room of every lunar base, lab, facility, shed, hut, homestead, outhouse, doghouse, cathouse, and -- oh, yeah -- spacesuit will have a HandiPak of Sticky Patches within arm's reach. Just get out your list of humans killed by being struck by a meteorite and increase their number by ten. (Where'd I put that list?) And this data would be for a planet with a billion or billions of humans (increasing the odds of being hit), so reduce that 10x number by 1000 or so. There won't be billions of people on the Moon for a while, trust me. It makes me want to go into the Meteorite Life Insurance business with a policy good for meteoric death on any planet. High benefit, low monthly premiums; just present the murderous meteorite to verify your claim... Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:29 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Hi Martin, I'm no expert, I only play one on the met-list. ;) But, meteoroids and micrometeoroids would arrive on a variety entry angles and velocities. Some at steeper angles and high speeds, others at shallow or oblique angles and lower speeds. (lower being relative) I agree that the more friable types of meteorite would be shattered or obliterated on contact with the lunar surface - probably into unrecognizable bits and destined to become part of the lunar regolith gumbo. Some robust meteorite types like irons, would probably survive as well. Imagine a large crater maker type of impactor, the energies involved would be enormous. There could well be shock and shock heating effects that would char or blacken the surviving shrapnel. Since the lunar surface is predominately one narrow palette of indigenous color, we can rule out easily detecting any meteorites at a glance that
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery)
Just get out your list of humans killed by being struck by a meteorite Sterling, surely we need to define a new concept here - that of the virgin meteorite strike. Or been struck by the meteorite that's around been around the block a few times assisted by postal services. I have a long list of humans that have lost their lives to meteorites which I also appear upon. Now, this would make a good episode for one of the CSI's, Numb3rs, etc.; They just love finding microbes, insects and other organisms in cadavers, but for some strange reason they haven't stumbled upon a meteorite wielding perp knocking someone off with a meteorite. Think of all they could impress us with talking about densities, impacts on the body, isotope analysis and ultimately tracing provenance to some dealer using the meteorite in lieu of DNA; put him in the one-way glass room - I cannot give up my customer list - it would put my reputation in ruin. Motives becomes intertwined, suspicious guys are crawling out of the woodwork clutching their meteorites; and finally the meteorite list comes to the rescue by tar and feathering one unexpected suspect without due process and forcing a confession after he becomes despondent because of the loss of the ability to get good deals by trading and selling to other collectors. Back to your numbers, nice job (well, within theoretical error)! Glad to see you posts! Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:08 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Just to cherry-pick one question: Do we have any hard data on the approximate rate of impacts on the lunar surface? Lunar seismic data should show the larger impacts, but the analysis is controversial. More recent (and more sophisticated) analysis shows more impacts than we once thought. But the simple physical reality is that meteoroids come from far away toward the Earth-Moon System. The collisional cross-section is influenced by the gravity field of the Earth-Moon System as the meteoroid approaches. Geometrically, the fall influx of the Moon should be about 1/16th of the Earth's, but gravitational focusing reduces that to 1/18th -- the Earth hogs the meteoroids. So, on a square-mile-basis, the Moon gets 12% fewer meteorites than the Earth. But those figures are for the top of the atmosphere. On the Moon, the surface IS the top of the atmosphere! On the Earth, we know (roughly) the fall rate BENEATH the atmosphere, but not at the top of the atmosphere. Well, you say, meteorites that don't survive are converted to dust particles in ablative trails, so just determine how much dust gets from space to the Earth's surface. Easy. Seriously complicating that simple idea is the large amount of meteoric dust, as opposed to meteoritic dust. That is, material from meteor streams, which is mostly dust to begin with, so adds only a little to the lunar impact hazard. (There are larger pieces in meteor streams and monitoring the Moon for impacts during periodic showers always produces a few visible flashes from energetic events... but only a few.) The long-term dust influx preserved in the Earth's ocean sediments is about 25,000 tons per year. The total mass of meteorites arriving at the surface of the Earth is likely between 2000 and 3000 TONS per year. Or maybe 200 to 300 tons, depending on whether you favor 90% ablative loss or 99% ablative loss. That figure may astound, but it's clear that less than 1% of all meteorites that survive to the surface are recovered Based on these figures for the Earth, the Moon would get 1300 tons of dust and particles, 140 tons of which would be particles big enough to worry about. On a square-mile basis, the likelihood of a meteorite impact of some size bigger than dust is probably 8 to 12 times greater than the risk of being whacked on a square mile of the Earth. But the fact is that even that risk is tiny. Not just tiny, but tiny-tiny-tiny-tiny-tiny-tiny-tiny-tiny! Ten times super-tiny is still, well, TINY. Even if the risk were 100 times greater , it would still be tiny. Try an experiment. Put up a tray the size of a lunar hut in your yard, covered with a film that will exclude dust, leaves, twigs, that only a meteorite could puncture, and wait to collect a meteorite. When you do, divide the wait-time by 10 (or 100 if you like that better), and you have the risk of lunar meteorite impact, the mean wait time to an impact (at a minimum). And, because we worry about it, every room of every lunar base, lab, facility, shed, hut, homestead, outhouse, doghouse, cathouse, and -- oh, yeah -- spacesuit will have a HandiPak of Sticky Patches within arm's reach. Just get out your list of
[meteorite-list] AD : Dinosaur fossils/meteorite trade offer
Hello list - I have some dinosaur fossils that will be going up for auction and thought I would take a moment to offer them to anyone on the METlist first. I'm willing to discuss trade for meteorites, so if there are any real fossil lovers out there interested just get back to me this week before I go to auction. There are 4 fossils total. 2 compressed Camarasaurus vertebrae and 1 uncompressed Camarasaurus vertebrae The fourth fossil , the shorter more round vertebrae is a posterior dorsal vertabra of the ornithopod dinosaur, Camptosaurus (likely C. dispar). It could be the 15th dorsal(the penultimate one). These are some rare finds and they are legally found on private property. If anyone is interested or would consider meteorite trades, email me. I love all meteorites, so there is no such thing as one unworthy of trade...except perhaps a bucket of Nantan rust. Thanks for looking. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.225762154121418.60626.10629061025l=156c2aed62 Warren Sansoucie St. Louis MO __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 2011 MD Animation
Hi, John, List, Richard got to the hot pixel answer before me (naturally), but some clues are the the absolute fixity of their positions, their unchanging brightness, and the fact that they are scattered all over the frame. If they were real objects and true companions, they would be of low mass compared with 2011MD. They would be in orbit around 2011MD. In nearly five hours motions would be apparent. And... they would be much closer. Asteroidal masses do not have companions; they have moons. There are at least 180 asteroids with moons that are known and probably many thousands more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_planet_moon Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: John Hendry p...@pict.co.uk To: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com; meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 2011 MD Animation I'm counting what appear to be 17 fainter companion objects in parallel trajectories. Is that what I'm looking at or is it some sort of video artefact? If they are companions can their size be determined approximately from the relative brightness or by some other means? Thanks, John On 28/06/2011 01:24, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: I got a few positional images of this object with our 1.5-m (60) on Mt. Lemmon last night, but Jure Skvarc at the Crni Vrh Observatory in Slovenia obtained one of the nicer time lapse animations of the asteroids motion against the background stars. He writes on his Youtube page: The images for this animation were taken using a 60-cm telescope from the Crni Vrh Observatory on the night of 26 July 2011. Each exposure was of 15 seconds. The telescope was tracking on the asteroid, changing the rate of tracking between exposures. The entire sequence lasted about 4h40m, during which 635 exposures were made. At the time the asteroid was less than 20 km from Earth. At the closest approach some 15 hours later the distance was about 2 km. 4 hours, 40 minutes of imaging the NEO until his dawn, compressed down to 43 seconds. Enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-pv18xDWCY -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery)
First; Is it a meteorite if it lands on the Moon? Isn't it just a chunk of asteroid or planetary debris added to our Moon. No atmo/no fusion crust. No atmo/no resistance to slow approach but then again no entry velocity generated but a great amount of gravity but rather only cosmic velocity. Anything found would most likely be a fragment of shrapnel. Second; Why recover Lunar meteorites? Why not simply bring back or send back from a remote catapult system canisters to Space shuttles poised for recovery lots and lots of Lunar rocks? Isn't that where this thread started, with Lunar rocks? An un-manned rover could be fairly affordable and half of those lunar rocks could be used for research while the other half pays for the private venture to recovery them. But then wouldn't that lower the value of the Lunar rocks? I mean, if everyone could buy a piece of Chassigny for their collection wouldn't that lower the price of Chassigny? I remember when Blaine Reed was selling Ureilites for $200.00 per gram and Brachinites and CR2 for $200.00 to $400.00 per gram. I remember Eagles Nest selling for $400.00 per gram and Hughes 004 selling for $200.00 per gram. In the late eighties and early nineties before the flood of material from NW Africa that began with El Hammami Mtns which I give Ali and Simon Hmani full credit for helping me re cover in November of 1997, values of Space Rocks were much different. I would imagine that the same might happen with regard to supply and demand for Lunar rocks. Besides, its kind of fun that there are these special specimens that cannot be had. It gives us all something to dream about. Really, don't you collectors find that you want something a great deal more when you feel that it can't be had? Simply thinking aloud. Cheers, Edwin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery)
ET wrote Really, don't you collectors find that you want something a great deal more when you feel that it can't be had? What, like smallpox? :) You're right of course! Why not simply bring back or send back from a remote catapult system canisters to Space shuttles poised for recovery lots and lots of Lunar rocks? Isn't that where this thread started, with Lunar rocks? Right again - all this is way too one-tracked in thought. BUT, Why get random Lunar dirt (Which granted is a fantastic thing); but why go to the surface of the Moon at all for meteorites when such cheaper options exist. No cannisters or space shuttles (what space shuttles?), why fight such exscape velocities, why go so far. You want to go the the nearer Lagrangian Points in plain space between the Earth and Moon. That is where the most fascinating stuff is to be found, written in unaltered stone the genesis of the Moon and plenty more debris to keep scientists and collectors busy and overworked for the nex 10,000 years! Plus - we (how modest - huh) - haven't been there and done that. Perfect NASA low budget mission. Everyone is free to submit there proposals, we going to Vesta, Ceres and Pluto but we just don't seem to appreciate a visit to the most interesting rocks in our own front yard! Best wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Edwin Thompson etmeteori...@hotmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:14 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) First; Is it a meteorite if it lands on the Moon? Isn't it just a chunk of asteroid or planetary debris added to our Moon. No atmo/no fusion crust. No atmo/no resistance to slow approach but then again no entry velocity generated but a great amount of gravity but rather only cosmic velocity. Anything found would most likely be a fragment of shrapnel. Second; Why recover Lunar meteorites? Why not simply bring back or send back from a remote catapult system canisters to Space shuttles poised for recovery lots and lots of Lunar rocks? Isn't that where this thread started, with Lunar rocks? An un-manned rover could be fairly affordable and half of those lunar rocks could be used for research while the other half pays for the private venture to recovery them. But then wouldn't that lower the value of the Lunar rocks? I mean, if everyone could buy a piece of Chassigny for their collection wouldn't that lower the price of Chassigny? I remember when Blaine Reed was selling Ureilites for $200.00 per gram and Brachinites and CR2 for $200.00 to $400.00 per gram. I remember Eagles Nest selling for $400.00 per gram and Hughes 004 selling for $200.00 per gram. In the late eighties and early nineties before the flood of material from NW Africa that began with El Hammami Mtns which I give Ali and Simon Hmani full credit for helping me re cover in November of 1997, values of Space Rocks were much different. I would imagine that the same might happen with regard to supply and demand for Lunar rocks. Besides, its kind of fun that there are these special specimens that cannot be had. It gives us all something to dream about. Really, don't you collectors find that you want something a great deal more when you feel that it can't be had? Simply thinking aloud. Cheers, Edwin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery)
From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: etmeteori...@hotmail.com; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) You want to go the the nearer Lagrangian Points in plain space between the Earth and Moon. That is where the most fascinating stuff is to be found, written in unaltered stone the genesis of the Moon and plenty more debris to keep scientists and collectors busy and overworked for the nex 10,000 years! There are no known Earth Trojans. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery)
Hi List, Well, my lunar meteorite moon base idea has been roundly rejected by a host of all-stars from the world of meteorites and science. Everyone from Dr. Korotev to Sterling Webb have shot down my pipe dream with great logic that I cannot refute. I concede and close my comic book now! ;) Ok, so the Lunar surface is not densely littered, or even lightly-peppered with meteorites - if they could be called meteorites at all. Humor me one last time, let's continue to indulge the fantasy just a bit more before we stop flogging this dead equine... The rate of lunar impacts can be a bit more frequent than we thought, but with no atmospheric braking, the meteoroids are coming in at hypervelocity and they annihilate themselves on impact, or leave behind only shattered and shocked tiny remnants that are quickly absorbed into the character of the lunar surface. So, what I am curious about is Mars. Mars obviously has much more of an atmosphere than the Moon, but the air is still quite tenuous on Mars, and it can't possibly provide a fraction of the braking action that Earth's thick blanket does. So, shouldn't the Martian surface be fairly devoid of meteorites as well? Wouldn't we put Mars somewhere between Earth and the Moon when it comes to the number of meteorites that survive the trip to the surface? We all know about the Meridiani Planum meteorite on Mars, so how lucky did Opportunity get? Did Opportunity literally get the lucky opportunity of a lifetime? Or, might there be more meteorites waiting to be found, especially if Mars perhaps had a thicker atmosphere in the past and/or if geological forces concentrated meteorites in sweet spots on the Martian surface? (ala Antarctica) There is no real need to go retrieve meteorites from the surfaces of other worlds. But, when the day comes, far from now (hopefully sooner), when man has colonies or permanent bases on other worlds, we will occasionally run across meteorites on other worlds as we carry out our other routine works. Surface work and mining will turn up the odd specimen from time to time. On the Moon, the surface has been geologically dead (basically) for a long long time. So, with no mechanical weathering and no chemical weathering, anything that survived the rifle-shot fall to the surface in the last billion (2?) years is still extant and waiting to be foundright? The $64 question is - How many such meteorites (lunarites?) are there waiting to be found now? The expert qualified consensus says - Not very many, if any at all. Mars had a more complex history atmospherically and geologically than the Moon, so I assume the formulas of meteorite frequency would differ as such? Best regards, MikeG PS - WANTED : an etched part-slice of Meridiani Planum, roughly palm-sized, 2-3mm thick. Will trade gold-pressed latinum. Contact me off-list with offers. :) -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 6/28/11, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: etmeteori...@hotmail.com; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) You want to go the the nearer Lagrangian Points in plain space between the Earth and Moon. That is where the most fascinating stuff is to be found, written in unaltered stone the genesis of the Moon and plenty more debris to keep scientists and collectors busy and overworked for the nex 10,000 years! There are no known Earth Trojans. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery)
Richard K says: There are no known Earth Trojans. Hi Richard, Come on ol' friend, even 2500 years ago Anaxagoras deduced: Under the stars are the Sun and Moon, and also certain bodies which revolve with them, but are invisible to us. and we've observed enough meteorites to vindicate him! The invisible he was talking about refers to them being too small to have enough light to reflect to be seen. What is the median threshold resolution we are talking about nowadays (in mass or diameter) at that distance? Perhaps the points are not a pocket full of horses, but Chincoteague Ponies, some used, would be a coupe. Regardless, towing an asteroid back to earth wasn't what I had in mind at all. Look, we've even sent Stardust to play tennis with comets, in hope of getting some micron sized particles, while ignoring the voluminous information guaranteed to be on the shelves of these libration libraries, not in mass, but in rubble and dust, a page at a time and conveniently located. Best wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:59 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: etmeteori...@hotmail.com; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) You want to go the the nearer Lagrangian Points in plain space between the Earth and Moon. That is where the most fascinating stuff is to be found, written in unaltered stone the genesis of the Moon and plenty more debris to keep scientists and collectors busy and overworked for the nex 10,000 years! There are no known Earth Trojans. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases andmeteoriterecovery)
Hi Mike, Another factor to consider is the proximity of Mars to the asteroid belt, relative to the Earth and earth's moon. Not being an expert in orbital mechanics, I would presume that, other factors being equal, Mars would have received more asteroid impacts simply because it borders the belt. Apropos, I believe Phobos and Deimos are captured asteroids. -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases andmeteoriterecovery) Hi List, Well, my lunar meteorite moon base idea has been roundly rejected by a host of all-stars from the world of meteorites and science. Everyone from Dr. Korotev to Sterling Webb have shot down my pipe dream with great logic that I cannot refute. I concede and close my comic book now! ;) Ok, so the Lunar surface is not densely littered, or even lightly-peppered with meteorites - if they could be called meteorites at all. Humor me one last time, let's continue to indulge the fantasy just a bit more before we stop flogging this dead equine... The rate of lunar impacts can be a bit more frequent than we thought, but with no atmospheric braking, the meteoroids are coming in at hypervelocity and they annihilate themselves on impact, or leave behind only shattered and shocked tiny remnants that are quickly absorbed into the character of the lunar surface. So, what I am curious about is Mars. Mars obviously has much more of an atmosphere than the Moon, but the air is still quite tenuous on Mars, and it can't possibly provide a fraction of the braking action that Earth's thick blanket does. So, shouldn't the Martian surface be fairly devoid of meteorites as well? Wouldn't we put Mars somewhere between Earth and the Moon when it comes to the number of meteorites that survive the trip to the surface? We all know about the Meridiani Planum meteorite on Mars, so how lucky did Opportunity get? Did Opportunity literally get the lucky opportunity of a lifetime? Or, might there be more meteorites waiting to be found, especially if Mars perhaps had a thicker atmosphere in the past and/or if geological forces concentrated meteorites in sweet spots on the Martian surface? (ala Antarctica) There is no real need to go retrieve meteorites from the surfaces of other worlds. But, when the day comes, far from now (hopefully sooner), when man has colonies or permanent bases on other worlds, we will occasionally run across meteorites on other worlds as we carry out our other routine works. Surface work and mining will turn up the odd specimen from time to time. On the Moon, the surface has been geologically dead (basically) for a long long time. So, with no mechanical weathering and no chemical weathering, anything that survived the rifle-shot fall to the surface in the last billion (2?) years is still extant and waiting to be foundright? The $64 question is - How many such meteorites (lunarites?) are there waiting to be found now? The expert qualified consensus says - Not very many, if any at all. Mars had a more complex history atmospherically and geologically than the Moon, so I assume the formulas of meteorite frequency would differ as such? Best regards, MikeG PS - WANTED : an etched part-slice of Meridiani Planum, roughly palm-sized, 2-3mm thick. Will trade gold-pressed latinum. Contact me off-list with offers. :) -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 6/28/11, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: etmeteori...@hotmail.com; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) You want to go the the nearer Lagrangian Points in plain space between the Earth and Moon. That is where the most fascinating stuff is to be found, written in unaltered stone the genesis of the Moon and plenty more debris to keep scientists and collectors busy and overworked for the nex 10,000 years! There are no known Earth Trojans. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] Stones with High Troilite, Low Metal
Hi Pete, I sent you some email attachments with backscatter electron images of NWA 6588 done with our electron microprobe. Sorry, I need to find the time to put some photos on the EoM, but not yet registered! I'm am having our website and the IOM Meteorite Catalog upgraded right now, so many photos of our collection soon the come. In the photos that I sent, you can see the bright sulfides are actually two different minerals, usually in contact with each other. The pentlandite is Ni-rich iron sulfide and the pyrite is just iron sulfide (FeS2 pyrite formula, not FeS troilite). The image Relict Chondrules 2 shows a lower magnification of the overall microscopic texture of NWA 6588. All the bright spots are sulfide. You can see the porphyritic olivine chondrule in the upper right and the in the lower left is part of a barred olivine chondrule. Because of the small size of the sulfides, the best way to determine which iron sulfide(s) is present is by electron microprobe quantitative analysis or by EDS on and SEM. I was actually quite surprised when NWA 6588 turned out not to have troilite! Best regards, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear Carl, Doug, and List, Carl, your classification of NWA 6588 reads very close to this one! Thank you for that link. Am I sure the sulfide in mine is all troilite? Absolutely not. Is there a test for it that I can do? I'm only going by my experience of what I've seen in books, the net, and the classifieds and non-classifieds that I have here. The lack of obvious nickel or iron and (what I think is) lots of troilite is what piqued my interest enough to ask if there was similar out there. You indicated in your classification that this was indeed unusual. Since there aren't any photos of NWA 6588 online yet, I'd appreciate your viewing these of mine: http://tiny.cc/ymksq http://tiny.cc/ymksq https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=B8A3E8CAAAC69704id=B8A3E8CAAAC69704%21114sc=documents in case the tiny doesn't work. Anything that appears reflective, white, or gold coloured is what I suspect is troilite. The sulfide appears to be sprinkled into individual grains further away from concentrated areas. I didn't try to Photoshop the true colour back in, but a dark khaki grey is more accurate for the matrix. As with any meteorite, the pictures don't do the actual beauty justice ;)! Cheers, Pete Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 06:47:53 -0600 From: a...@unm.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Stones with High Troilite, Low Metal Hi Pete, What about an LL -- with some desert weathering? The low-low metal can be converted to small Fe-oxides or veins. I recently classified Northwest Africa 6588 (LL6-an), that had only trace amounts of Fe-Ni metal. The ubiquitous sulfides present are pendlandite and stoichiometric pyrite. See metsoc 2011 abstract: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2011/pdf/5418.pdf Are you sure the sulfide is all troilite? Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html - Message: 13 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 00:31:45 -0400 From: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stones with High Troilite, Low Metal To: mexicod...@aim.com, meteoritem...@gmail.com, meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: bay153-w42304efe707206467a6876f8...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thank you all for your responses. You're right, Doug, too ambiguous a question. I have an unclassified NWA, which I've sliced and polished. There are so many interesting features that it is the type that you never get tired of looking at under the microscope. It has what appears to be the remains of transformed chondrules; four total in about 2cm^2 surface. Three look like bit-remains of brecciated chondrules, grey and white. The other looks like a typical barred chondrule that has become completely crystallised, and has the schiller effect. A very fine grained matrix, no observable free metal as in nickel/iron, and what *appears* to be typical troilite scattered throughout. Low attraction to a neodymium magnet. The fusion crust is relatively fresh, with no chert. Quite different from the others I've got, so I was hoping to read and possibly view
Re: [meteorite-list] Long Live the Nakhla Dog! 100 Years Ago in Egypt28JUN1911 28JUN2011
Hear, Hear http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/aboutnakhladog.htm Rob Wesel -- Nakhla Dog Meteorites www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 -- From: drtanuki drtan...@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:25 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Long Live the Nakhla Dog! 100 Years Ago in Egypt28JUN1911 28JUN2011 List, Some of you may like a good dog vs meteorite story: Long Live the Nakhla Dog! 100 Years Ago in Egypt 28JUN1911 28JUN2011 http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/06/long-live-nakhla-dog-100-years-ago-in.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1388 / Virus Database: 1516/3731 - Release Date: 06/28/11 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Thermal Protection System (TPS)
As a fairly new subscriber to the met-list, and a meteorite(nut) collector. I would like to inject a few pieces of information about the Space Shuttle Tiles from my personal experiences with them. As the other Teacher In Space(TIS) candidate from the state of NH I was given a damaged flown Tile by NASA way back in January 1986 while I was attending the TIS Launch Conference (STS-51-L Challenger) in Florida. The tile that I received, was a black borosilicate coated high tempertaure tile (HRSI) that was damaged on an earlier mission of the space shuttle Discovery. (Each Space Shuttle carries approximately 34,000 separate Thermal Protection System (TPS) tiles. (Thirty to 100 tiles are replaced on an orbiter after each mission.) In order for me to receive this tile from NASA I had to sign a four page security agreement form which stated more things than I can possibly remember at this time. Basically it stated that this tile was presented to me as a representative of the Space Ambassadors and the state of NH and I could not sell it to anyone, nor could I charge anyone to see it. I could not cut it up and give any pieces of it away nor sell any pieces of it. I could not give it to any person from a foreign country. If I was to retire from teaching within five years of receiving this tile I had to return it to NASA. After five years time had elapsed when I was to retire from teaching the tile was not my personal property but was to stay with the school district from which I retired (I hope that It is still there). We were given these tiles of 98.5% pure silicon dioxide to demonstrate the amazing thermal protection that they offer to the Space Shuttles. Using a blowtorch hundereds of times in schools all over NH I have never seen even the least bit of any fusion crust form on the tile that I had used. I believe that they are so pure that they never wear out. However, the borosilicate coating on the tiles does appears to wear thin after repeated use and may crack and flake and be the cause of replacing numerous tiles for each mission. This repeated heating and cooling did cause the tile to discolor from the very black tile to a grey color after repeated use. This can also be seen on the underside of any of the space shuttles with the newer replaced black tiles standing out from the grey tiles that have gone through numerous launch and re-entry missions. So for those of you who dream of buying a tile from NASA I would say that your chances are about as good as buying some of the 842 pounds of lunar rocks and soil samples so staunchly discussed as of recent. NASA Has had a program in place for many years where they do furnish tiles to museums, educational and academic institutions etc. For educational purposes and if you want to see all its NASAese go to any of the following: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/oia/nasaonly/itransition/Shuttle_Tiles_Disposition_Plan.pdf http://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducators/topnav/materials/listbytype/Shuttle_Tiles_Educator_Guides.html http://space.about.com/b/2010/12/03/schools-can-order-space-shuttle-tiles-for-educational-use.htm Since my retirement from full time teaching I now work part-time at the McAuliffe Shepard Discovery Center in Concord NH where we are also an NASA Educational Resource Center and have received two HRSI black tiles from NASA for demonstration purposes. When we use them we do use the recommended cotton gloves to handle them and are careful not to damage them. I would close by stating that calling these tiles is like calling a piece of styofoam heavy, for the typical six inch square tile weighs no more than a few ounces (50-60 g) depending on the thickness of the particular tile. In Fact I will never forget the day that one very unknowelgable colleagues when first presented the chance to hold a tile in his hand decided to rap it with his knuckle and promptly crack the very delicate borosilicate coating rendering the tile as damaged goods. A very dramatic demonstration of why a space shuttle is never launched during a rain storm. So any individual who is questing to get a shuttle tile to add to their collection of space memoribilia I suggest you do as I have done and buy one from the Buran Space Shuttle Shop. Robert A. Veilleux Planetarium Educator MCauliffe Shepard Discovery Center 2 Institute Drive Concord, NH 03301 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Thermal Protection System (TPS)
Superb addition to this thread Robert and welcome to the list. It is great for that perspective. It also would be interesting to find where all those educational tiles are ... Four months ago, they arrested a guy who: Investigators say Abbey sold 12 tiles from the shuttle, for about $600 to $800 each. Seven were sold to buyers outside of the country, Straight said. Abbey, 50, was booked into the Brevard County Jail on Thursday with bail set at $10,000, record show. He has since been released after posting bail. ref: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-02-11/news/os-shuttle-worker-arrested-nasa-theft20110211_1_shuttle-tiles-nasa-officials-brevard-investigators Now I am wondering what I saw in the KSC gift shop in December 2010. Am I confused or did I see some tiles, perhaps authentic? Not used (and thus no serial number linking them to service but otherwise the real deal? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Robert Nancy Veilleux robn...@comcast.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 8:08 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Thermal Protection System (TPS) As a fairly new subscriber to the met-list, and a meteorite(nut) collector. I would like to inject a few pieces of information about the Space Shuttle Tiles from my personal experiences with them. As the other Teacher In Space(TIS) candidate from the state of NH I was given a damaged flown Tile by NASA way back in January 1986 while I was attending the TIS Launch Conference (STS-51-L Challenger) in Florida. The tile that I received, was a black borosilicate coated high tempertaure tile (HRSI) that was damaged on an earlier mission of the space shuttle Discovery. (Each Space Shuttle carries approximately 34,000 separate Thermal Protection System (TPS) tiles. (Thirty to 100 tiles are replaced on an orbiter after each mission.) In order for me to receive this tile from NASA I had to sign a four page security agreement form which stated more things than I can possibly remember at this time. Basically it stated that this tile was presented to me as a representative of the Space Ambassadors and the state of NH and I could not sell it to anyone, nor could I charge anyone to see it. I could not cut it up and give any pieces of it away nor sell any pieces of it. I could not give it to any person from a foreign country. If I was to retire from teaching within five years of receiving this tile I had to return it to NASA. After five years time had elapsed when I was to retire from teaching the tile was not my personal property but was to stay with the school district from which I retired (I hope that It is still there). We were given these tiles of 98.5% pure silicon dioxide to demonstrate the amazing thermal protection that they offer to the Space Shuttles. Using a blowtorch hundereds of times in schools all over NH I have never seen even the least bit of any fusion crust form on the tile that I had used. I believe that they are so pure that they never wear out. However, the borosilicate coating on the tiles does appears to wear thin after repeated use and may crack and flake and be the cause of replacing numerous tiles for each mission. This repeated heating and cooling did cause the tile to discolor from the very black tile to a grey color after repeated use. This can also be seen on the underside of any of the space shuttles with the newer replaced black tiles standing out from the grey tiles that have gone through numerous launch and re-entry missions. So for those of you who dream of buying a tile from NASA I would say that your chances are about as good as buying some of the 842 pounds of lunar rocks and soil samples so staunchly discussed as of recent. NASA Has had a program in place for many years where they do furnish tiles to museums, educational and academic institutions etc. For educational purposes and if you want to see all its NASAese go to any of the following: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/oia/nasaonly/itransition/Shuttle_Tiles_Disposition_Plan.pdf http://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducators/topnav/materials/listbytype/Shuttle_Tiles_Educator_Guides.html http://space.about.com/b/2010/12/03/schools-can-order-space-shuttle-tiles-for-educational-use.htm Since my retirement from full time teaching I now work part-time at the McAuliffe Shepard Discovery Center in Concord NH where we are also an NASA Educational Resource Center and have received two HRSI black tiles from NASA for demonstration purposes. When we use them we do use the recommended cotton gloves to handle them and are careful not to damage them. I would close by stating that calling these tiles is like calling a piece of styofoam heavy, for the typical six inch square tile weighs no more than a few ounces (50-60 g) depending on the thickness of the particular tile. In Fact I will never forget the day that one very unknowelgable colleagues when
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Thermal Protection System (TPS)
NASA is selling tile material on the KSC website store but not the actual tiles from a shuttle. http://www.thespaceshop.com/shuttilin.html Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Robert Nancy Veilleux Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 8:08 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Thermal Protection System (TPS) As a fairly new subscriber to the met-list, and a meteorite(nut) collector. I would like to inject a few pieces of information about the Space Shuttle Tiles from my personal experiences with them. As the other Teacher In Space(TIS) candidate from the state of NH I was given a damaged flown Tile by NASA way back in January 1986 while I was attending the TIS Launch Conference (STS-51-L Challenger) in Florida. The tile that I received, was a black borosilicate coated high tempertaure tile (HRSI) that was damaged on an earlier mission of the space shuttle Discovery. (Each Space Shuttle carries approximately 34,000 separate Thermal Protection System (TPS) tiles. (Thirty to 100 tiles are replaced on an orbiter after each mission.) In order for me to receive this tile from NASA I had to sign a four page security agreement form which stated more things than I can possibly remember at this time. Basically it stated that this tile was presented to me as a representative of the Space Ambassadors and the state of NH and I could not sell it to anyone, nor could I charge anyone to see it. I could not cut it up and give any pieces of it away nor sell any pieces of it. I could not give it to any person from a foreign country. If I was to retire from teaching within five years of receiving this tile I had to return it to NASA. After five years time had elapsed when I was to retire from teaching the tile was not my personal property but was to stay with the school district from which I retired (I hope that It is still there). We were given these tiles of 98.5% pure silicon dioxide to demonstrate the amazing thermal protection that they offer to the Space Shuttles. Using a blowtorch hundereds of times in schools all over NH I have never seen even the least bit of any fusion crust form on the tile that I had used. I believe that they are so pure that they never wear out. However, the borosilicate coating on the tiles does appears to wear thin after repeated use and may crack and flake and be the cause of replacing numerous tiles for each mission. This repeated heating and cooling did cause the tile to discolor from the very black tile to a grey color after repeated use. This can also be seen on the underside of any of the space shuttles with the newer replaced black tiles standing out from the grey tiles that have gone through numerous launch and re-entry missions. So for those of you who dream of buying a tile from NASA I would say that your chances are about as good as buying some of the 842 pounds of lunar rocks and soil samples so staunchly discussed as of recent. NASA Has had a program in place for many years where they do furnish tiles to museums, educational and academic institutions etc. For educational purposes and if you want to see all its NASAese go to any of the following: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/oia/nasaonly/itransition/Shuttle_Tiles_Disposition_Plan.pdf http://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducators/topnav/materials/listbytype/Shuttle_Tiles_Educator_Guides.html http://space.about.com/b/2010/12/03/schools-can-order-space-shuttle-tiles-for-educational-use.htm Since my retirement from full time teaching I now work part-time at the McAuliffe Shepard Discovery Center in Concord NH where we are also an NASA Educational Resource Center and have received two HRSI black tiles from NASA for demonstration purposes. When we use them we do use the recommended cotton gloves to handle them and are careful not to damage them. I would close by stating that calling these tiles is like calling a piece of styofoam heavy, for the typical six inch square tile weighs no more than a few ounces (50-60 g) depending on the thickness of the particular tile. In Fact I will never forget the day that one very unknowelgable colleagues when first presented the chance to hold a tile in his hand decided to rap it with his knuckle and promptly crack the very delicate borosilicate coating rendering the tile as damaged goods. A very dramatic demonstration of why a space shuttle is never launched during a rain storm. So any individual who is questing to get a shuttle tile to add to their collection of space memoribilia I suggest you do as I have done and buy one from the Buran Space Shuttle Shop. Robert A. Veilleux Planetarium Educator MCauliffe Shepard Discovery Center 2 Institute Drive Concord, NH 03301 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list
[meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Thermal Protection System (TPS)
Hi Robert, Excellent post, I'm going to have to see about getting a tile for our museum. Phil Whitmer --- As a fairly new subscriber to the met-list, and a meteorite(nut) collector. I would like to inject a few pieces of information about the Space Shuttle Tiles from my personal experiences with them. As the other Teacher In Space(TIS) candidate from the state of NH I was given a damaged flown Tile by NASA way back in January 1986 while I was attending the TIS Launch Conference (STS-51-L Challenger) in Florida. The tile that I received, was a black borosilicate coated high tempertaure tile (HRSI) that was damaged on an earlier mission of the space shuttle Discovery. (Each Space Shuttle carries approximately 34,000 separate Thermal Protection System (TPS) tiles. (Thirty to 100 tiles are replaced on an orbiter after each mission.) In order for me to receive this tile from NASA I had to sign a four page security agreement form which stated more things than I can possibly remember at this time. Basically it stated that this tile was presented to me as a representative of the Space Ambassadors and the state of NH and I could not sell it to anyone, nor could I charge anyone to see it. I could not cut it up and give any pieces of it away nor sell any pieces of it. I could not give it to any person from a foreign country. If I was to retire from teaching within five years of receiving this tile I had to return it to NASA. After five years time had elapsed when I was to retire from teaching the tile was not my personal property but was to stay with the school district from which I retired (I hope that It is still there). We were given these tiles of 98.5% pure silicon dioxide to demonstrate the amazing thermal protection that they offer to the Space Shuttles. Using a blowtorch hundereds of times in schools all over NH I have never seen even the least bit of any fusion crust form on the tile that I had used. I believe that they are so pure that they never wear out. However, the borosilicate coating on the tiles does appears to wear thin after repeated use and may crack and flake and be the cause of replacing numerous tiles for each mission. This repeated heating and cooling did cause the tile to discolor from the very black tile to a grey color after repeated use. This can also be seen on the underside of any of the space shuttles with the newer replaced black tiles standing out from the grey tiles that have gone through numerous launch and re-entry missions. So for those of you who dream of buying a tile from NASA I would say that your chances are about as good as buying some of the 842 pounds of lunar rocks and soil samples so staunchly discussed as of recent. NASA Has had a program in place for many years where they do furnish tiles to museums, educational and academic institutions etc. For educational purposes and if you want to see all its NASAese go to any of the following: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/oia/nasaonly/itransition/Shuttle_Tiles_Disposition_Plan.pdf http://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducators/topnav/materials/listbytype/Shuttle_Tiles_Educator_Guides.html http://space.about.com/b/2010/12/03/schools-can-order-space-shuttle-tiles-for-educational-use.htm Since my retirement from full time teaching I now work part-time at the McAuliffe Shepard Discovery Center in Concord NH where we are also an NASA Educational Resource Center and have received two HRSI black tiles from NASA for demonstration purposes. When we use them we do use the recommended cotton gloves to handle them and are careful not to damage them. I would close by stating that calling these tiles is like calling a piece of styofoam heavy, for the typical six inch square tile weighs no more than a few ounces (50-60 g) depending on the thickness of the particular tile. In Fact I will never forget the day that one very unknowelgable colleagues when first presented the chance to hold a tile in his hand decided to rap it with his knuckle and promptly crack the very delicate borosilicate coating rendering the tile as damaged goods. A very dramatic demonstration of why a space shuttle is never launched during a rain storm. So any individual who is questing to get a shuttle tile to add to their collection of space memoribilia I suggest you do as I have done and buy one from the Buran Space Shuttle Shop. Robert A. Veilleux Planetarium Educator MCauliffe Shepard Discovery Center 2 Institute Drive Concord, NH 03301 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Thermal Protection System (TPS)
Replying to myself - I have just received off list an email confirming the KSC gift shop does indeed sell fragments of tiles. I just googled this and found this place selling reasonable sized authentic tile cuttings for $23 each and with this explanation of the provenance, which if true, pretty much illustrates the (lack of) control practices I was talking about in prior posts: History of the Tile Material: In October 1978, D.G. Noble was assigned as Chief of U.S. Air Force Quality Assurance on all NASA contracts at Lockheed Missile and Space Systems in Sunnyvale, California. The main NASA contract at that time was for the production of Space Shuttle tile for the first Space Shuttle to fly in space, Columbia. At that time, Space Shuttle tile was being thrown into a large discard receptacle. There were no strict policies in effect at that time, precluding removal of anything from these receptacles. Noble's interest in the discarded tile was as an insulating material for a fireplace, so he removed enough material to accomplish this purpose. A few years later, a NASA representative came to Noble's home to discuss when and how he obtained the discarded Space Shuttle tile. NASA concluded that Noble had obtained the tile legally which could also be sold commercially.This was reaffirmed in a letter from the Inspector General for NASA to Michael Noble in June 22, 1994 letter from George T. Lenehan, Chief Counsel, Office of the Chief Counsel, for Ames Research Center, NASA. The Space Store legally purchased Mr. Noble's entire thermal tile material stock in July, 2009. ref: http://www.thespacestore.com/spshthtiboxs1.html Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: robn...@comcast.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 8:25 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Thermal Protection System (TPS) Superb addition to this thread Robert and welcome to the list. It is great for that perspective. It also would be interesting to find where all those educational tiles are ... Four months ago, they arrested a guy who: Investigators say Abbey sold 12 tiles from the shuttle, for about $600 to $800 each. Seven were sold to buyers outside of the country, Straight said. Abbey, 50, was booked into the Brevard County Jail on Thursday with bail set at $10,000, record show. He has since been released after posting bail. ref: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-02-11/news/os-shuttle-worker-arrested-nasa-theft20110211_1_shuttle-tiles-nasa-officials-brevard-investigators Now I am wondering what I saw in the KSC gift shop in December 2010. Am I confused or did I see some tiles, perhaps authentic? Not used (and thus no serial number linking them to service but otherwise the real deal? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Robert Nancy Veilleux robn...@comcast.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 8:08 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Thermal Protection System (TPS) As a fairly new subscriber to the met-list, and a meteorite(nut) collector. I would like to inject a few pieces of information about the Space Shuttle Tiles from my personal experiences with them. As the other Teacher In Space(TIS) candidate from the state of NH I was given a damaged flown Tile by NASA way back in January 1986 while I was attending the TIS Launch Conference (STS-51-L Challenger) in Florida. The tile that I received, was a black borosilicate coated high tempertaure tile (HRSI) that was damaged on an earlier mission of the space shuttle Discovery. (Each Space Shuttle carries approximately 34,000 separate Thermal Protection System (TPS) tiles. (Thirty to 100 tiles are replaced on an orbiter after each mission.) In order for me to receive this tile from NASA I had to sign a four page security agreement form which stated more things than I can possibly remember at this time. Basically it stated that this tile was presented to me as a representative of the Space Ambassadors and the state of NH and I could not sell it to anyone, nor could I charge anyone to see it. I could not cut it up and give any pieces of it away nor sell any pieces of it. I could not give it to any person from a foreign country. If I was to retire from teaching within five years of receiving this tile I had to return it to NASA. After five years time had elapsed when I was to retire from teaching the tile was not my personal property but was to stay with the school district from which I retired (I hope that It is still there). We were given these tiles of 98.5% pure silicon dioxide to demonstrate the amazing thermal protection that they offer to the Space Shuttles. Using a blowtorch hundereds of times in schools all over NH I have never seen even the least bit of any fusion crust form on the tile that I had used. I believe that they are so
Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE!!!! *** update ***
Hello all, I have good news. The seller has promised to revise all his listings. He is also offering to replace all the mounts that i broke open for free. Furthermore, he is re-negotiating a new price with me for these mounts since i purchased a few of them now that we have an actual weight and hopefully we can agree on a fair price and i will get to keep them. If we cannot agree on a new price he has agreed to pay for the return shipping and give me a full refund. So just incase anybody has purchased these mounts from him, they are actually 7mg - 10mg and he never checked them and he appologizes for the mistake and is willing to refund anybody who purchased these thinking they were 24mg just send him an email. So hopefully everything works out with this guy and I am happy to find out that his mistake was not intentional and he is doing everything to resolve this issue including revising his listings to either take out the weight completely and just sell them as micro mounts or state the weight of 7mg - 10mg the choice is up to him and i am satisfied with either way he chooses to proceed. Daniel Furlan collector and dealer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE!!!! *** update ***
I was eager to see your reply, Dan. I also corresponded with your seller today. He is really a conscientious guy with excellent feedback and and incredibly helpful attitude. *He readily volunteered earlier to me that it was 100% his fault and told me he would do *anything* to make you happy, and that he believes you without questioning your integrity in the slightest and was pleased to know the truth. Too bad all eBayers weren't so inclined. *He also said that the person who sold them to him actually made the cases, not him, and told him those weights and that he had no way of checking and he never even opened a case. *He also said that some of his auctions which still had the incorrect weight vs. the others that never had a weight in the listing had nothing to do with him still cheating as you construed on the list. Rather, the auctions that were still running hadn't been changed and the ones that never had the weights were the buy-it-nows, according to him it was just the way he had listed them. I didn't check this but it sounds plausible.. *So, apparently, there was an honest mistake that was corrected in the most professional manner by a simple communication. Yet you dragged this guy across the coals in front of 1000 of his potential customers without checking better and then you shot me as the messenger for suggesting to communicate more with him before cryiong wolf. You even violated eBay policy by linking his name to his username in public, though a nitpick, I am sure it would genuinely hurt the seller if he knew it - but he's not a list member so had no way to know or respond. All the while your seller is apparently holding his head down embarrassed and trying to make things right. This is the problem with a one sided story and honestly it seems irresponsible to me on your part. Do you agree? Good luck in your future dealings, and I hope no one does to you what you did to him. The kicker is, the guy feels so bad about it that all he can say is that he understands your frustration and hopes you cut him a break. Doug -Original Message- From: Dan Furlan danfur...@gmail.com To: met-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 8:50 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE *** update *** Hello all, I have good news. The seller has promised to revise all his listings. He is also offering to replace all the mounts that i broke open for free. Furthermore, he is re-negotiating a new price with me for these mounts since i purchased a few of them now that we have an actual weight and hopefully we can agree on a fair price and i will get to keep them. If we cannot agree on a new price he has agreed to pay for the return shipping and give me a full refund. So just incase anybody has purchased these mounts from him, they are actually 7mg - 10mg and he never checked them and he appologizes for the mistake and is willing to refund anybody who purchased these thinking they were 24mg just send him an email. So hopefully everything works out with this guy and I am happy to find out that his mistake was not intentional and he is doing everything to resolve this issue including revising his listings to either take out the weight completely and just sell them as micro mounts or state the weight of 7mg - 10mg the choice is up to him and i am satisfied with either way he chooses to proceed. Daniel Furlan collector and dealer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Thermal Protection System (TPS)
Robert, (and to List...) I am saving this entry, with +++s, into my good-stuff folder. Thank you! Richard M - Original Message - From: Robert Nancy Veilleux robn...@comcast.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Thermal Protection System (TPS) As a fairly new subscriber to the met-list, and a meteorite(nut) collector. I would like to inject a few pieces of information about the Space Shuttle Tiles from my personal experiences with them. As the other Teacher In Space(TIS) candidate from the state of NH I was given a damaged flown Tile by NASA way back in January 1986 while I was attending the TIS Launch Conference (STS-51-L Challenger) in Florida. The tile that I received, was a black borosilicate coated high tempertaure tile (HRSI) that was damaged on an earlier mission of the space shuttle Discovery. (Each Space Shuttle carries approximately 34,000 separate Thermal Protection System (TPS) tiles. (Thirty to 100 tiles are replaced on an orbiter after each mission.) In order for me to receive this tile from NASA I had to sign a four page security agreement form which stated more things than I can possibly remember at this time. Basically it stated that this tile was presented to me as a representative of the Space Ambassadors and the state of NH and I could not sell it to anyone, nor could I charge anyone to see it. I could not cut it up and give any pieces of it away nor sell any pieces of it. I could not give it to any person from a foreign country. If I was to retire from teaching within five years of receiving this tile I had to return it to NASA. After five years time had elapsed when I was to retire from teaching the tile was not my personal property but was to stay with the school district from which I retired (I hope that It is still there). We were given these tiles of 98.5% pure silicon dioxide to demonstrate the amazing thermal protection that they offer to the Space Shuttles. Using a blowtorch hundereds of times in schools all over NH I have never seen even the least bit of any fusion crust form on the tile that I had used. I believe that they are so pure that they never wear out. However, the borosilicate coating on the tiles does appears to wear thin after repeated use and may crack and flake and be the cause of replacing numerous tiles for each mission. This repeated heating and cooling did cause the tile to discolor from the very black tile to a grey color after repeated use. This can also be seen on the underside of any of the space shuttles with the newer replaced black tiles standing out from the grey tiles that have gone through numerous launch and re-entry missions. So for those of you who dream of buying a tile from NASA I would say that your chances are about as good as buying some of the 842 pounds of lunar rocks and soil samples so staunchly discussed as of recent. NASA Has had a program in place for many years where they do furnish tiles to museums, educational and academic institutions etc. For educational purposes and if you want to see all its NASAese go to any of the following: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/oia/nasaonly/itransition/Shuttle_Tiles_Disposition_Plan.pdf http://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducators/topnav/materials/listbytype/Shuttle_Tiles_Educator_Guides.html http://space.about.com/b/2010/12/03/schools-can-order-space-shuttle-tiles-for-educational-use.htm Since my retirement from full time teaching I now work part-time at the McAuliffe Shepard Discovery Center in Concord NH where we are also an NASA Educational Resource Center and have received two HRSI black tiles from NASA for demonstration purposes. When we use them we do use the recommended cotton gloves to handle them and are careful not to damage them. I would close by stating that calling these tiles is like calling a piece of styofoam heavy, for the typical six inch square tile weighs no more than a few ounces (50-60 g) depending on the thickness of the particular tile. In Fact I will never forget the day that one very unknowelgable colleagues when first presented the chance to hold a tile in his hand decided to rap it with his knuckle and promptly crack the very delicate borosilicate coating rendering the tile as damaged goods. A very dramatic demonstration of why a space shuttle is never launched during a rain storm. So any individual who is questing to get a shuttle tile to add to their collection of space memoribilia I suggest you do as I have done and buy one from the Buran Space Shuttle Shop. Robert A. Veilleux Planetarium Educator MCauliffe Shepard Discovery Center 2 Institute Drive Concord, NH 03301 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 2011MD Bye-bye
Science humor... I love it. -Walter Branch Not everything that can be counted, counts and not everything that counts can be counted. -A. Einstein. On Jun 27, 2011, at 9:37 PM, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Video of 2011MD against background stars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUjbA21jjsc The pass was at 7600 miles (instead of the predicted 7500 miles) and it was 3.5 hours late from the predicted time. Mr. Newton could not be reached for comment. Sterling K. Webb __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 2011MD Bye-bye
Dang Rob. Little wonder there is a minor planet named after you. I think that should be upgraded to at least a dwarf planet. -Walter Branch Not everything that can be counted, counts and not everything that counts can be counted. -A. Einstein. On Jun 28, 2011, at 12:52 AM, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Whoops! Actually, I was the late one. The orbital elements for 2011 MD were updated several days ago. http://www.projectpluto.com/2011md.htm The closest approach was re-calculated for not 13:30 UTC but 17:00 UTC and the point of closest approach projected on the Earth shifted by some 50 degrees... I missed the update and so did at least one news outlet (The Mail Telegraph, UK) who reported it late. The shame of it -- to do no better than a newspaper! Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 2011MD Bye-bye Hi All, I'm sure Sterling is well aware of this, but it's worth pointing out to the masses that 2011 MD wasn't late. People are simply guilty of blindly believing their favorite piece of software, apparently ignorant of the limitations of non-integrating propagation. When an asteroid is well within the sphere of influence of the earth, it is hardly appropriate to use a program that's based on Kepler's two-body equations... --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Sterling K. Webb Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 6:37 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 2011MD Bye-bye Video of 2011MD against background stars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUjbA21jjsc The pass was at 7600 miles (instead of the predicted 7500 miles) and it was 3.5 hours late from the predicted time. Mr. Newton could not be reached for comment. Sterling K. Webb __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 2011MD Bye-bye
Gee. He ain't the only one ;-) Chris Spratt (Via my iPhone) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 2011MD Bye-bye
Citation for (73491) The following citation is from MPC 51191: (73491) Robmatson = 2002 PO164 Robert D. Matson (b. 1962) is a keen amateur astronomer with special interests in planetary science. Besides being a successful meteorite hunter, Matson is internationally recognized for his satellite-tracking software SkyMap. He also found 15 SOHO comets and is credited with more than 200 discoveries of minor planets. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 - Original Message - From: Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 2011MD Bye-bye Dang Rob. Little wonder there is a minor planet named after you. I think that should be upgraded to at least a dwarf planet. -Walter Branch Not everything that can be counted, counts and not everything that counts can be counted. -A. Einstein. On Jun 28, 2011, at 12:52 AM, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Whoops! Actually, I was the late one. The orbital elements for 2011 MD were updated several days ago. http://www.projectpluto.com/2011md.htm The closest approach was re-calculated for not 13:30 UTC but 17:00 UTC and the point of closest approach projected on the Earth shifted by some 50 degrees... I missed the update and so did at least one news outlet (The Mail Telegraph, UK) who reported it late. The shame of it -- to do no better than a newspaper! Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 2011MD Bye-bye Hi All, I'm sure Sterling is well aware of this, but it's worth pointing out to the masses that 2011 MD wasn't late. People are simply guilty of blindly believing their favorite piece of software, apparently ignorant of the limitations of non-integrating propagation. When an asteroid is well within the sphere of influence of the earth, it is hardly appropriate to use a program that's based on Kepler's two-body equations... --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Sterling K. Webb Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 6:37 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 2011MD Bye-bye Video of 2011MD against background stars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUjbA21jjsc The pass was at 7600 miles (instead of the predicted 7500 miles) and it was 3.5 hours late from the predicted time. Mr. Newton could not be reached for comment. Sterling K. Webb __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Named minor planets
Blush Sebastian Hönig surprised me with that honor in December 2003 -- quite the Christmas present! Since then, I've tried to pay it forward by doing the same for other amateur astronomers, meteorite hunters, meteoriticists and even an astronaut. As a group, the Meteorite List probably has the second- highest number of members with minor planets named for them (Richard's MPML would certainly be #1). --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Richard Kowalski Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:12 PM To: meteorite list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 2011MD Bye-bye Citation for (73491) The following citation is from MPC 51191: (73491) Robmatson = 2002 PO164 Robert D. Matson (b. 1962) is a keen amateur astronomer with special interests in planetary science. Besides being a successful meteorite hunter, Matson is internationally recognized for his satellite-tracking software SkyMap. He also found 15 SOHO comets and is credited with more than 200 discoveries of minor planets. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery)
Doug, I think you missed a key word in my post, ... known Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: damoc...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Richard K says: There are no known Earth Trojans. Hi Richard, Come on ol' friend, even 2500 years ago Anaxagoras deduced: Under the stars are the Sun and Moon, and also certain bodies which revolve with them, but are invisible to us. and we've observed enough meteorites to vindicate him! The invisible he was talking about refers to them being too small to have enough light to reflect to be seen. What is the median threshold resolution we are talking about nowadays (in mass or diameter) at that distance? Perhaps the points are not a pocket full of horses, but Chincoteague Ponies, some used, would be a coupe. Regardless, towing an asteroid back to earth wasn't what I had in mind at all. Look, we've even sent Stardust to play tennis with comets, in hope of getting some micron sized particles, while ignoring the voluminous information guaranteed to be on the shelves of these libration libraries, not in mass, but in rubble and dust, a page at a time and conveniently located. Best wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:59 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: etmeteori...@hotmail.com; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) You want to go the the nearer Lagrangian Points in plain space between the Earth and Moon. That is where the most fascinating stuff is to be found, written in unaltered stone the genesis of the Moon and plenty more debris to keep scientists and collectors busy and overworked for the nex 10,000 years! There are no known Earth Trojans. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE!!!! *** update ***
Dear Sir, The seller still never checked the items before he re-sold them, yes this is an honest mistake but very irresponsible and he sold hundreds of these mounts with the incorrect weight and the people who bought them paid triple the price of what they are worth retail.. If i was him, i would of done exactly what I did today upon receiving the items and bust a few of the mounts open and actually weigh the specimens before selling hundreds of them.. And if i didn't own a scale i would put it on the top of my shopping list ASAP especially before selling any lunar material with weights in the milligrams. I don't feel i dragged anybody through the dirt, all i did was report that he was selling 24mg mounts that actually weighed 7-10mg. thanks to me he is able to correct this mistake and hopefully he learns a lesson. Furthermore people from met-list who may have purchased these mounts can seek resolution as well. I cannot stress the importance of double checking anything you buy to re-sell or even for personal collection. I am sorry we do not see eye to eye on this. How would you like to buy something that has a certain weight associated with it and when you check it yourself you realize that the reason it weighs 2 thirds less then the stated weight is because the seller never bothered to weigh it?? If you wouldn't be slightly disappointed then I am sorry to say there is something fundamentally wrong with you. I am not here to baby sit sellers and understand their mistakes, I am here to do business with professionals who i can trust will deliver on their word. Like i mentioned in my previous update i am happy to see this seller take action and revise his listings and offer resolutions. I do not regret making my original post one bit because there are hundreds of people out there who purchased lunar and mars material for top dollar and didn't get what they paid for and they are entitled to know about it. You may think I was being inconsiderate by making the original post but in reality i was being responsible to my fellow meteorite collectors and dealers who may have purchased these mounts in the past assuming the weight was correct as well as any potential buyers who had active bids on them as well. This is the price you pay when you do business and mess up.. I am a very trusting person, and i believe what people tell me.. but when i spend a lot of money on something i wish to re-sell I will guarantee you 100% I am going to double check everything to make sure it's is o.k. before i put it on the market with my name on it. Daniel Furlan On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 9:35 PM, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: I was eager to see your reply, Dan. I also corresponded with your seller today. He is really a conscientious guy with excellent feedback and and incredibly helpful attitude. *He readily volunteered earlier to me that it was 100% his fault and told me he would do *anything* to make you happy, and that he believes you without questioning your integrity in the slightest and was pleased to know the truth. Too bad all eBayers weren't so inclined. *He also said that the person who sold them to him actually made the cases, not him, and told him those weights and that he had no way of checking and he never even opened a case. *He also said that some of his auctions which still had the incorrect weight vs. the others that never had a weight in the listing had nothing to do with him still cheating as you construed on the list. Rather, the auctions that were still running hadn't been changed and the ones that never had the weights were the buy-it-nows, according to him it was just the way he had listed them. I didn't check this but it sounds plausible.. *So, apparently, there was an honest mistake that was corrected in the most professional manner by a simple communication. Yet you dragged this guy across the coals in front of 1000 of his potential customers without checking better and then you shot me as the messenger for suggesting to communicate more with him before cryiong wolf. You even violated eBay policy by linking his name to his username in public, though a nitpick, I am sure it would genuinely hurt the seller if he knew it - but he's not a list member so had no way to know or respond. All the while your seller is apparently holding his head down embarrassed and trying to make things right. This is the problem with a one sided story and honestly it seems irresponsible to me on your part. Do you agree? Good luck in your future dealings, and I hope no one does to you what you did to him. The kicker is, the guy feels so bad about it that all he can say is that he understands your frustration and hopes you cut him a break. Doug -Original Message- From: Dan Furlan danfur...@gmail.com To: met-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 8:50 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE *** update *** Hello all, I have good
Re: [meteorite-list] Named minor planets
Any idea how many and who? Chris Spratt (Via my iPhone) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE!!!! *** update ***
Dan, You are 100% right about everything surrounding authenticity and I completely agree with your effort to make things right - as does your seller who now has the daunting problem and expressed an attitude to address it. It was his honest mistake as you see. Dealing in meteorites is really hard work. It is easy to empathize with your seller as everyone has been in a position where something hasn't worked out. When evaluating honesty it is good to give them a chance to make things right and if they do, casting them in a positive light. That sends all the right messages about buying and selling meteorites to the 'public'. Reputation is everything in the meteorite world and I just felt bad for a guy living near Kennedy Space Center - your seller. Anything related to KSC is dear to me for nostalgic reasons. Now that the Space Shuttle program is dying down the place will essentially turn into relatively minor operation. Gone is Apollo, crash are our spirits in Florida and no major NASA workhorse program is seriously in the works. The rocket garden is on its was to being the rusty rocket headstones. Chalk it up to being too sentimental and hoping you get a satisfactory conclusion but without any heads rolling except with smiles, Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Dan Furlan danfur...@gmail.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 11:01 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE *** update *** Dear Sir, The seller still never checked the items before he re-sold them, yes this is an honest mistake but very irresponsible and he sold hundreds of these mounts with the incorrect weight and the people who bought them paid triple the price of what they are worth retail.. If i was him, i would of done exactly what I did today upon receiving the items and bust a few of the mounts open and actually weigh the specimens before selling hundreds of them.. And if i didn't own a scale i would put it on the top of my shopping list ASAP especially before selling any lunar material with weights in the milligrams. I don't feel i dragged anybody through the dirt, all i did was report that he was selling 24mg mounts that actually weighed 7-10mg. thanks to me he is able to correct this mistake and hopefully he learns a lesson. Furthermore people from met-list who may have purchased these mounts can seek resolution as well. I cannot stress the importance of double checking anything you buy to re-sell or even for personal collection. I am sorry we do not see eye to eye on this. How would you like to buy something that has a certain weight associated with it and when you check it yourself you realize that the reason it weighs 2 thirds less then the stated weight is because the seller never bothered to weigh it?? If you wouldn't be slightly disappointed then I am sorry to say there is something fundamentally wrong with you. I am not here to baby sit sellers and understand their mistakes, I am here to do business with professionals who i can trust will deliver on their word. Like i mentioned in my previous update i am happy to see this seller take action and revise his listings and offer resolutions. I do not regret making my original post one bit because there are hundreds of people out there who purchased lunar and mars material for top dollar and didn't get what they paid for and they are entitled to know about it. You may think I was being inconsiderate by making the original post but in reality i was being responsible to my fellow meteorite collectors and dealers who may have purchased these mounts in the past assuming the weight was correct as well as any potential buyers who had active bids on them as well. This is the price you pay when you do business and mess up.. I am a very trusting person, and i believe what people tell me.. but when i spend a lot of money on something i wish to re-sell I will guarantee you 100% I am going to double check everything to make sure it's is o.k. before i put it on the market with my name on it. Daniel Furlan On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 9:35 PM, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: I was eager to see your reply, Dan. I also corresponded with your seller today. He is really a conscientious guy with excellent feedback and and incredibly helpful attitude. *He readily volunteered earlier to me that it was 100% his fault and told me he would do *anything* to make you happy, and that he believes you without questioning your integrity in the slightest and was pleased to know the truth. Too bad all eBayers weren't so inclined. *He also said that the person who sold them to him actually made the cases, not him, and told him those weights and that he had no way of checking and he never even opened a case. *He also said that some of his auctions which still had the incorrect weight vs. the others that never had a weight in the listing had nothing to do with him still
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery)
Hi Richard, I think I missed more than that - so what did you mean in the original post? That a mission there would be a good idea to make new discoveries? I still don't get it, then, and am very interested in what you say. Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 10:59 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Doug, I think you missed a key word in my post, ... known Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: damoc...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Richard K says: There are no known Earth Trojans. Hi Richard, Come on ol' friend, even 2500 years ago Anaxagoras deduced: Under the stars are the Sun and Moon, and also certain bodies which revolve with them, but are invisible to us. and we've observed enough meteorites to vindicate him! The invisible he was talking about refers to them being too small to have enough light to reflect to be seen. What is the median threshold resolution we are talking about nowadays (in mass or diameter) at that distance? Perhaps the points are not a pocket full of horses, but Chincoteague Ponies, some used, would be a coupe. Regardless, towing an asteroid back to earth wasn't what I had in mind at all. Look, we've even sent Stardust to play tennis with comets, in hope of getting some micron sized particles, while ignoring the voluminous information guaranteed to be on the shelves of these libration libraries, not in mass, but in rubble and dust, a page at a time and conveniently located. Best wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:59 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: etmeteori...@hotmail.com; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) You want to go the the nearer Lagrangian Points in plain space between the Earth and Moon. That is where the most fascinating stuff is to be found, written in unaltered stone the genesis of the Moon and plenty more debris to keep scientists and collectors busy and overworked for the nex 10,000 years! There are no known Earth Trojans. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Named minor planets
There are thousands of named asteroids. I'm not sure if anyone has complied a list yet, but it could be a rainy day task for someone who has the interest. If you go to the JPL Orbital Diagram page: http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/orbits/ You can enter the name of a candidate. To find all of the objects with that name contained in it, add an asterisk before and after the name. For example, for Rob Matson's rock, I entered *matson* If you follow this example too, you'll see two objects, 2586 Matson (1980 LO) 73491 Robmatson (2002 PO164). 73491 Robmatson is a more obvious result because of the exact name match, but reading the citations helps confirm its named for the person you think it is. If there is only a single object with this name, it's page will appear automatically. Still confirm that it is for the person you believe it is. Such list would be helpful to know who has been so honored, but would also be helpful in pointing out any that are worthy but so far are missing. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 - Original Message - From: Chris Spratt cspr...@islandnet.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Named minor planets Any idea how many and who? Chris Spratt (Via my iPhone) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [2] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery)
Never mind - the light bulb on my shoulders and brightened up. I said we would find it written in stone and you said no Trojans were known. You meant that there is no guarantee we'll find anything there without bias, right, but my premise assumes that material is there. Yup, but as missions go, I think it is just about the best risk out there, and certainly among the cheapest. Besides, a mission there could serve a dual purpose to evaluate the region for colonization, staging or to otherwise utilize its unique attributes. After 3.5 billion years I figure no matter how much the cometary brooms and things have whisked it out, there is bound to be plenty of dirt behind the refrigerator. Kindest wishes and thanks Doug -Original Message- From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: damoc...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 11:34 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Hi Richard, I think I missed more than that - so what did you mean in the original post? That a mission there would be a good idea to make new discoveries? I still don't get it, then, and am very interested in what you say. Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 10:59 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Doug, I think you missed a key word in my post, ... known Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: damoc...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Richard K says: There are no known Earth Trojans. Hi Richard, Come on ol' friend, even 2500 years ago Anaxagoras deduced: Under the stars are the Sun and Moon, and also certain bodies which revolve with them, but are invisible to us. and we've observed enough meteorites to vindicate him! The invisible he was talking about refers to them being too small to have enough light to reflect to be seen. What is the median threshold resolution we are talking about nowadays (in mass or diameter) at that distance? Perhaps the points are not a pocket full of horses, but Chincoteague Ponies, some used, would be a coupe. Regardless, towing an asteroid back to earth wasn't what I had in mind at all. Look, we've even sent Stardust to play tennis with comets, in hope of getting some micron sized particles, while ignoring the voluminous information guaranteed to be on the shelves of these libration libraries, not in mass, but in rubble and dust, a page at a time and conveniently located. Best wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:59 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: etmeteori...@hotmail.com; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) You want to go the the nearer Lagrangian Points in plain space between the Earth and Moon. That is where the most fascinating stuff is to be found, written in unaltered stone the genesis of the Moon and plenty more debris to keep scientists and collectors busy and overworked for the nex 10,000 years! There are no known Earth Trojans. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Space Shuttle...honorary stories
Hi List, While the 'heat-tile' subject is still 'hot' and since our beloved fleet nears the end of its 'scheduled missions' I offer a story, and invite others after this: (Stick with my personal indulgences along the way...especially those of us have music in commonthey will pay off!) START: back when I witnessed the hand-helf Heat-Tile firing with the acetalyne torch (1978-80?), at a party, I was a guitarist in a 5x bluegrass band: Steve, a banjo guy, but this time playing bass; Buzz, another guitarist; Dave, banjo-player extrodinaire; and me, newbe guitar guy. MIDDLE: One day, between tunes, we all sat around and shared our future passionsBuzz said he wanted to be a software designer in Silicon Valley after he finished his electrical engineering degree (we were all at UCDavis); Dave wanted to go on to be accepted for his Masters somewhere and be a farm advisor; I wanted to continue studying guitar and somehow be David Grisman's guitar player, following Tony Rice and Mark O'Connor in the role (good luck, me!); and Steve said he wanted to be an astronaut. This was in 1978..Really?!!! All of us achieved our goals...Buzz, yes; Dave, yes; Me yesand. Steve Robinsonbanjo-player extrodinaireyet more noteably known for his stellar Mission Specialty trips up to the Space Shuttle. (Those of you in the know, KNOW!) I captured the DVR from the NASA-channel, watching my music pal inspecting the tiles in zero gravity How cool is that!!! -Richard Montgoemry __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery)
Sorry if I'm being obtuse. My terse comment that there are no known earth trojans means simply that. We know of no Earth Trojans at L4 or L5. I simply can't say if there is or isn't anything there. Can't say that either is a good place to find lunar material simply because we haven't found a single Trojan. As for a mission to investigate the regions? Not really that interesting to me. Obviously I'm much more excited by the OSIRIS-REx sample return mission to 1999 RQ36 later this decade. (Plug for LPL UA) 1999 RQ36 is a carbonaceous Potentially Hazardous Asteroid with a diameter of about 350 meters in diameter that has a 1 in 1,800 chance of earth imapct in 2182. I find that mission much more tantalizing than exploring the Lagrangian points to do some street sweeping. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: damoc...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Hi Richard, I think I missed more than that - so what did you mean in the original post? That a mission there would be a good idea to make new discoveries? I still don't get it, then, and am very interested in what you say. Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 10:59 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Doug, I think you missed a key word in my post, ... known Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: damoc...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Richard K says: There are no known Earth Trojans. Hi Richard, Come on ol' friend, even 2500 years ago Anaxagoras deduced: Under the stars are the Sun and Moon, and also certain bodies which revolve with them, but are invisible to us. and we've observed enough meteorites to vindicate him! The invisible he was talking about refers to them being too small to have enough light to reflect to be seen. What is the median threshold resolution we are talking about nowadays (in mass or diameter) at that distance? Perhaps the points are not a pocket full of horses, but Chincoteague Ponies, some used, would be a coupe. Regardless, towing an asteroid back to earth wasn't what I had in mind at all. Look, we've even sent Stardust to play tennis with comets, in hope of getting some micron sized particles, while ignoring the voluminous information guaranteed to be on the shelves of these libration libraries, not in mass, but in rubble and dust, a page at a time and conveniently located. Best wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:59 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: etmeteori...@hotmail.com; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) You want to go the the nearer Lagrangian Points in plain space between the Earth and Moon. That is where the most fascinating stuff is to be found, written in unaltered stone the genesis of the Moon and plenty more debris to keep scientists and collectors busy and overworked for the nex 10,000 years! There are no known Earth Trojans. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle...honorary stories
I get so excited about it, I even mis-spell my own last name. -Richard Montgomery (this time is correct!) - Original Message - From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net To: 'Meteorite-list List' meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle...honorary stories Hi List, While the 'heat-tile' subject is still 'hot' and since our beloved fleet nears the end of its 'scheduled missions' I offer a story, and invite others after this: (Stick with my personal indulgences along the way...especially those of us have music in commonthey will pay off!) START: back when I witnessed the hand-helf Heat-Tile firing with the acetalyne torch (1978-80?), at a party, I was a guitarist in a 5x bluegrass band: Steve, a banjo guy, but this time playing bass; Buzz, another guitarist; Dave, banjo-player extrodinaire; and me, newbe guitar guy. MIDDLE: One day, between tunes, we all sat around and shared our future passionsBuzz said he wanted to be a software designer in Silicon Valley after he finished his electrical engineering degree (we were all at UCDavis); Dave wanted to go on to be accepted for his Masters somewhere and be a farm advisor; I wanted to continue studying guitar and somehow be David Grisman's guitar player, following Tony Rice and Mark O'Connor in the role (good luck, me!); and Steve said he wanted to be an astronaut. This was in 1978..Really?!!! All of us achieved our goals...Buzz, yes; Dave, yes; Me yesand. Steve Robinsonbanjo-player extrodinaireyet more noteably known for his stellar Mission Specialty trips up to the Space Shuttle. (Those of you in the know, KNOW!) I captured the DVR from the NASA-channel, watching my music pal inspecting the tiles in zero gravity How cool is that!!! -Richard Montgoemry __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Buyers BEWARE!!!! *** update ***
Doug, I appreciate you sympathizing with the seller it shows me you have a heart of gold and are a kind person. I wish your sympathies reached out to all the people who actually purchased these mounts at full retail and ended up paying 3 times the face value. I am glad we were able to clear up this mess and move on with our lives because some of the people who were misled by accident have an avenue now to seek some resolution from a seller who is more then willing to make things right. Dan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Home, Home on La Grange!
Doug, I believe Anaxagoras was referring to the Anti-Earth, a body thought possible (in either a geocentric or a heliocentric system) that was always behind the Sun from the viewpoint of Earth, hence never seen by us. It's an idea that doesn't go away (like it should): http://files.ncas.org/condon/text/appndx-e.htm But it was Pythogoras, the first to call the earth round and not the center of the universe, a word he invented, BTW: cosmos or universe. And he had that Theorem thingee, too. Yes, the Anti-Earth was his idea... So, he missed one. But, when I read your post, Doug, I thought you meant the Kordylewski clouds --- large concentrations of dust that may exist at the L4 and L5 Lagrangian points of the Earth-Moon system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kordylewski_cloud The existence of a photometrically confirmable concentration of dust at the libration points was predicted by Professor J. Witkowski in 1951. The clouds were first seen by Kordylewski in 1956. Between 6 March and 6 April, 1961 he succeeded in photographing two bright patches near the L5 libration point. During the observation time the patches hardly appeared to move relative to L5... In 1967, J. Wesley Simpson made observations of the clouds using the Kuiper Airborne Observatory. The existence of the Kordylewski clouds is still under dispute. The Japanese Hiten space probe, which passed through the libration points to detect trapped dust particles, did not find an obvious increase in dust levels above the density in surrounding space... The Kordylewski clouds are a very faint phenomenon, comparable to the brightness of the Gegenschein and, as the Lagrangian points are unstable, they may be a random and transient phenomenon. They are reported to have an angular diameter of up to 6 degrees and to orbit the Lagrangian points in elipses, when seen. L5 clouds seem to be observed more than L4 coulds. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Lagrange_points_Earth_vs_Moon.jpg G! No dust! http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v224/n5219/abs/224571a0.html Anyone got Sky and Telescope, 22, 63 (1961)? There are Kordylewski's photos in there. http://www.google.com/url?sa=tsource=webcd=4sqi=2ved=0CDEQFjADurl=http%3A%2F%2Fspaceflight.esa.int%2Fstrategy%2Fpages%2FHome__Events__Why_the_moon__Posters__P12_Laufer.cfmrct=jq=kordylewski%20sky%20%26%20telescopeei=XJ8KTsSgGI2qsALIosGjAQusg=AFQjCNFOB0d25_NmBxPsAyX99MoNzDyWpgsig2=98jwIRBEppaJQdNioVXWdwcad=rja More Moons of the Earth: http://library.thinkquest.org/25401/data/discovery/text/hyp.html?tql-iframe#moon In October 1956, Kordylewski saw, for the first time, a fairly bright patch in one of the two positions. It was not small, subtending an angle of 2° (i.e. about 4 times larger than the Moon itself). It also was very faint, only about half as bright as the notoriously difficult Gegenschein (counterglow - a bright patch in the zodiacal light, directly opposite to the Sun). In March and April 1961, Kordylewski succeeded in photographing two clouds near the expected positions. They seem to vary in extent, but that may be due to changing illumination. J. Roach detected these cloud satellites in 1975 with the OSO (Orbiting Solar Observatory) 6 spacecraft. In 1990, they were again photographed, this time by the Polish astronomer Winiarski, who found that they were a few degrees in apparent diameter, that they wandered up to 10° away from the trojan point, and that they were somewhat redder than the zodiacal light. Photometry didn't find any clouds: http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/124326.pdf Kordylewski clouds at the Earth-Sun Lagrangian points? http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6228 and http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/04/10/1224231/STEREO-Spacecraft-To-Explore-Earths-L4-and-L5 Lots of things at Lagrangian Points... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_objects_at_Lagrangian_points The Clouds of Kordylewski? I think they come and go... Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases andmeteoriterecovery) Doug, I think you missed a key word in my post, ... known Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: damoc...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Richard K says: There are no known Earth Trojans. Hi Richard, Come on ol' friend, even 2500 years ago Anaxagoras deduced: Under the stars are the Sun and Moon, and also certain bodies which revolve with them, but are invisible to us. and we've observed enough meteorites to
