Re: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites
Pete wrote: My question is how do they survive to the ground, to be found not as a dust, but in large pieces? Pete you're in the good company of David Rittenhouse who asked the same question in 1780. It's related to the other conundrum - How do they stay relatively cool inside while the surface becomes fused? That seemingly goes against common sense. And with Irons it is even better because at much lower temperatures, the Widmanstatten pattern would become annealled and lost. Yet there is a fusion region on irons that can be measured in fractions of a millimeter in some cases, and never much more. Somehow, and I'm winging it though I should know, the process of ablation is so darn efficient at removing the heat generated, much like we sweat, that the ablating surface provides a natural air conditioner for what's inside, just like a swamp cooler but absorbing even by an electric excitation mechanism which discharges the energy by transforming from electrical into light energy, hece the brightness observed/ But that still doesn't explain why going into a headwind of 10 miles per second everything doesn't rip apart. That must, and please correct me if I am wrong, be due to two or three factors working in concert on the forward face of the mass: 1. heat is wicked off immediately by the sublimation described above 2,3. the ablated material leaving the surface creates a plasma which either has a much lower frictional coefficient or creates a static layer of plasma travelling with the object which essential operates as a battering ram forming its own sacrificial layer, or both. Thus, the rock from space is like an insulated kernal traveling in its own form in place shields. When it finishes its high energy velocities it goes into free fall which reaches a maximum speed of under 400 mph in most cases much less which upon hitting a soft surface can survive. But if it hits a rock, you probably will be out of luck Carancas was different because it never reached free fall, and the impact was like whipping a piece of cement to belly flop against a hard wall of something. Even then, a portion of material in the aft section can survive. Try whipping pieces of chalk against a wall and you'll demonstrate a similar effect and perhaps get some cone of material stuck to the wall and a few crumbs falling back, along with a lot of dust. If it is large enough, and traveling in a herd of rocks which is also likely since they can become insultaed in their form in place sublimation shield, the first stones will be sacrificial but some in the back may survive. A possible explanation for Carancas. Or, just that their were some laggers that fell behind the main bolus and their higher surface area slowed them much more to better withsatand an impact. Kindest wishes Douig PS nice domain, Pete PPS another way to produce some friable meteorites is let them fall in water and see what happens and recover them later. After they dry out enough material may be leached (since they are porous) that they become much more friable. Care to give an example? -Original Message- From: Greg Hupe gmh...@centurylink.net To: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com Cc: The List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 12:57 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites Hey All, I would have to suggest Nakhlites are one of the most friable meteorites. Best Regards, Greg Hupe On Oct 23, 2011, at 9:50 PM, Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com wrote: Pete, If you want to talk friable meteorites, take a look at Tagish Lake. It is one of my most favorite meteorites, it is the least dense meteorite known to man. Fascinating! -Michael in so. Cal. On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 9:06 PM, pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com wrote: In a conversation with someone today, it was mentioned that Kilabo was extremely friable. Another really friable meteorite was Caracas, Peru. My question is how do they survive to the ground, to be found not as a dust, but in large pieces? How did they make a crator? Have the scientists figured out how the Caracas meteorite made such a large crator? Many questions and so little time to figure out what happened. Pete __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
[meteorite-list] Friable meteorites
Or I would have to say Orgueil if very friable, if you look at it wrong it will turn to dust. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites Michael Mulgrew mikestang at gmail.com Mon Oct 24 00:50:52 EDT 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites Next message: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Pete, If you want to talk friable meteorites, take a look at Tagish Lake. It is one of my most favorite meteorites, it is the least dense meteorite known to man. Fascinating! -Michael in so. Cal. On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 9:06 PM, pshugar at messengersfromthecosmos.com wrote: In a conversation with someone today, it was mentioned that Kilabo was extremely friable. Another really friable meteorite was Caracas, Peru. My question is how do they survive to the ground, to be found not as a dust, but in large pieces? How did they make a crator? Have the scientists figured out how the Caracas meteorite made such a large crator? Many questions and so little time to figure out what happened. Pete __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Previous message: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites Next message: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Part II: American David Rittenhouse (Warning- Pre-Chladni)
Matthias wrote: quite interesting discussion indeed (unfortunately I didn't receive Doug's answer to an email I've sent him regarding this subject). Rittenhouse (who was born in Germantown ;-), Hallo Matthias, As far as Germantown, yes quite ironic in the context of this discussion and so fitting isn't it. For a perfecta, what was Rittenhouse's father's name? Kindest wishes Doug PS I'll answer as soon as I can, very sorry for the delay - blame my great and respected Herr heir Martin, I got the habit from him ;-) -Original Message- From: Matthias Bärmann majbaerm...@web.de To: altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de; Meteorite-list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Sent: Sun, Oct 23, 2011 6:06 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Part II: American David Rittenhouse (Warning- Pre-Chladni) Gentlemen, quite interesting discussion indeed (unfortunately I didn't receive Doug's answer to an email I've sent him regarding this subject). In any case, we all have all reasons to be proud and thankful that Ernst F.F. Chladni existed as well as Harvey H. Nininger, or Humboldt, or Rittenhouse (who was born in Germantown ;-), Lichtenberg, Benjamin Franklin, Monsieur Biot, or, or, or ... Never to forget the authors of early cultures. At least these are merits of adorable individual persons and in the same moment merits of whole mankind itself. My best to all of you, Matthias - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: altm...@meteorite-martin.de; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Part II: American David Rittenhouse (Warning- Pre-Chladni) Martin, Hi ;-) If you have more information on the 1739 American sighting in particular in the USA from Chladni's book, please do be so kind and send it my way hen you get some time. You have done a good job being an heir of Chladni, but in my opinion you aren't being objective enough - not that I have been either as a student of Franklin's. We can pare this down to its essential points in rthe future sometime. Meanwhile, Long live Chladni ... and his collection of 41 meteorites. ...and may Rittenhouse be elevated and generally recognized until another earlier is perhaps found, as the first American to determine independently by observation the height at which a bolide in 1779 begins during the founding of the USA while the British were camped by Philadelphia giving seige; its incandescent path, that it had mass and cosmic velocity and an in dependent orbit around the Sun before encountering Earth, and that hard masses occasionally fell from the sky and had the potential to hammer people and buildings, though Rittenhouse believed they would more frequently explodes in the air. You are right - that is nothing Chladni couldn't have said although Rittenhouse had the better ideas on the cause of the incandescence than Chladni and predated Chladni. ...and that in America Rittenhouse was the Chief astronomer of the nascent Am,erican country. ...as was he second president of the scientific establishment of the new country (The American Philosophical Society) after its founder Ben Franklin who had a keen interest in atmospheric phenomena and a musical instrument Chladni was enamored with... ...and that the third president of the Society after Rittenhouse was Thomas Jefferson, who so much respected Rittenhouse that he order six copies of Rittenhouse's biography and most certainly had read and believed in Rittenhouse's 1779 meteor data. ...and that the professional astronomer, professor Rittehouse oversaw the 1783 design of the first coin of the United States of America. These coins depicted an exploding star and represented the American colonies each as a single star from the explosion ...and that on his suggestion these same stars of the new constellation on his suggestion were integrated into a stylized twilight blue sky much like the time of the 1779 fireball he observed 4 years earlier, on the newly approved American Flag (which is why the stars were in a circle originally as they radiated from the center). Are a lot of circumstantial thoughts, but taken together they paint a pretty picture and show that Americans made an early great contribution to the understanding of meteoritics as well that clearly influenced Chladni. I'm sure Thomas Jefferson's friend and correspondent Alex von Humboldt would agree after he became a member of the American Philosophical Society in 1804 under Jefferson and probably was carting massive, looted Mexican irons when he came to visit. Jefferson of course was president of the United States at the time he was president of the Society and this was three years before Weston. Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
NWA 6976 http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpod.asp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] (no subject)
In [meteorite-list] Volcano... Or Giant Impact? at http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2011-October/080668.html , I wrote, “Another interesting paper is: Reimold, W. U., V. von Brunn, and C. Koeberl, 1997, Are Diamictites Impact Ejecta?—No Supporting Evidence from South African Dwyka Group Diamictite. The Journal of Geology. vol. 105, pp. 517–530. PDF file at: http://www.univie.ac.at/...list/128-diamictites-not-impact-J-Geol1997.pdf” The correct URL for the PDF file is: http://www.univie.ac.at/geochemistry/koeberl/publikation_list/128-diamictites-not-impact-J-Geol1997.pdf A related paper is: Huber, H., C. Koeberl, I. MacDonald, and W. U. Reimold, 2001, Geochemistry and petrology of Witwatersrand and Dwyka diamictites from South Africa: Search for an extraterrestrial component. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta. vol. 65, no. 12, pp. 2007–2016. The PDF file for this paper can be downloaded from: http://www.univie.ac.at/geochemistry/koeberl/publikation_list/184-Dwyka-geochem-GCA2001.pdf Best wishes, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Correction to Volcano... Or Giant Impact?
In [meteorite-list] Volcano... Or Giant Impact? at http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2011-October/080668.html , I wrote, “Another interesting paper is: Reimold, W. U., V. von Brunn, and C. Koeberl, 1997, Are Diamictites Impact Ejecta?—No Supporting Evidence from South African Dwyka Group Diamictite. The Journal of Geology. vol. 105, pp. 517–530. PDF file at: http://www.univie.ac.at/...list/128-diamictites-not-impact-J-Geol1997.pdf” The correct URL for the PDF file is: http://www.univie.ac.at/geochemistry/koeberl/publikation_list/128-diamictites-not-impact-J-Geol1997.pdf A related paper is: Huber, H., C. Koeberl, I. MacDonald, and W. U. Reimold, 2001, Geochemistry and petrology of Witwatersrand and Dwyka diamictites from South Africa: Search for an extraterrestrial component. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta. vol. 65, no. 12, pp. 2007–2016. The PDF file for this paper can be downloaded from: http://www.univie.ac.at/geochemistry/koeberl/publikation_list/184-Dwyka-geochem-GCA2001.pdf Best wishes, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites
Or dare I say Nantan! Ok... so kind of a different thread but at least you don't even need to touch that one! ;-) On a silent night you can hear the Nantans rust! Cheers, Jeff -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mulgrew Sent: Monday, 24 October 2011 3:51 PM To: pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com Cc: The List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites Pete, If you want to talk friable meteorites, take a look at Tagish Lake. It is one of my most favorite meteorites, it is the least dense meteorite known to man. Fascinating! -Michael in so. Cal. On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 9:06 PM, pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com wrote: In a conversation with someone today, it was mentioned that Kilabo was extremely friable. Another really friable meteorite was Caracas, Peru. My question is how do they survive to the ground, to be found not as a dust, but in large pieces? How did they make a crator? Have the scientists figured out how the Caracas meteorite made such a large crator? Many questions and so little time to figure out what happened. Pete __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] munich show is next week
Hi I will be in Munich on sunday with some slices of Lowicz in my pocket and other things to lookbuy or lookexchange. I will also have there my Silver Blave v5 so I can cut few meteorites on request. Call me on my mobil or look for me on Said/Aziz or Hans Koser table. Take care and CU soon. -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) 567667 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] - Original Message - From: Said Haddany mfcollec...@yahoo.com To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 1:50 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] munich show is next week Hi List, for whom are attending Munich show we are inviting you to stop by booth A5.563 ,we will have many intersting things to show...thank you Said Haddany I.M.C.A # 8108 --- On Fri, 10/21/11, Said Haddany mfcollec...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Said Haddany mfcollec...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] munich show is next week To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com Date: Friday, October 21, 2011, 4:18 PM Hi Aziz Habibi and all, Yes the munich show is coming soon ,hope will meet our friends and enjoy being with them...munich show is much fun ...cant wait to see you all there ...cheers Said Haddany I.M.C.A # 8108 Morocco --- On Mon, 10/17/11, habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com wrote: From: habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] munich show is next week To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, October 17, 2011, 9:49 AM hello all well the munchen show is next week ; so i ask to know who will be there , and who organize this brauhaus dinner and where to meet, thanks aziz habibi imca 6220 habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170/font __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Inningen discredited
Some of you may be interested in the news that the Nomenclature Committee has voted to discredit Inningen as a meteorite name. It has been shown to be a piece of Sikhote-Alin. See http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=12038 Jeff __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Looking for information in written form.
Hello everyone I am looking for detailed descriptions of things like how is the widmanstatten pattern formed. Perhaps a short 5 or 6 paragraph version and then a full page version for those more interested. I would like to have the same type of thing for inclusions and their composition and distribution. Then one on the differences between stone, pallasites and irons of course there are a few more versions in their like mesosiderite. I also need a good one for Alamo Breccia. Then the same thing for a list of different meteorites, a detailed description, including type when found where and all the basic details. But with some of the history and legend included. Perhaps interesting details like who is finding them and how, how large the modern strewn field might be any information that would help us understand these types of meteorites. The story behind them, this is a preliminary list and is likely not complete. Seymchan both pallasite and siderite, Brenham same thing a separate page for the siderite and pallasite, Toluca, Muonionalusta, Morasko, Canyon Diablo, NWA xxx stones (common types) Franconia, Admire, Gebil Kamil, Sikhote Alin, CD GRaphite, Silicated Campo, Campo, Nantan, NWA 869, Uruacu , Dronino, Chinga, Desert glass, Moldivite, Tektite Slashform Indochinite. This list might become a little longer over time , but this is a good start. I am looking for this information to use on my website and Ebay as well as printed material to hand out, so it needs to be legal to use the info like this. Also I am looking for entry level versions of all these explanations, not looking for detailed versions that require a PHD to understand, hopefully many buying their fist meteorite will be reading these and others who have a few but never really heard the story before. -- Mike Miller 3835 E Nicole Ave Kingman Az 86409 www.meteoritefinder.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day Correction
The description for NWA 6976 incorrectly stated the date of closest approach to Earth. The info has been corrected. http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpod.asp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Man and Impact in the Americas
Hi all - With all of the exchanges on Chladni and Rittenhouse going on, it seems an appropriate time to mention that a pioneering study of recent impact events, signed copies of my very own Man and Impact in the Americas are available to list members for $20 plus $5 shipping US, or $15 shipping overseas. Tiny type, too many typos, and not enough pictures, but for another $15 my and Fletcher Wilson's Guide to Serpent Mound and guide to the remains in the Newark area can be included, and they have plenty of pictures and large type. E.P. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MPOD Oct 24, 2011
A truly superb picture! Aethetically appealing presentation! Thanks for sharing! Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Strange Hollows Discovered on Mercury (MESSENGER)
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/24oct_sleepyhollows/ Strange Hollows Discovered on Mercury NASA Science News October 24, 2011 NASA's MESSENGER spacecraft has discovered strange hollows on the surface of Mercury. Images taken from orbit reveal thousands of peculiar depressions at a variety of longitudes and latitudes, ranging in size from 60 feet to over a mile across and 60 to 120 feet deep. No one knows how they got there. These hollows were a major surprise, says David Blewett, science team member from the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory. We've been thinking of Mercury as a relic - a place that's really not changing much anymore, except by impact cratering. But the hollows appear to be younger than the craters in which they are found, and that means Mercury's surface is still evolving in a surprising way. Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter spotted similar depressions in the carbon dioxide ice at Mars' south pole, giving that surface a swiss cheese appearance. But on Mercury they're found in rock and often have bright interiors and halos. We've never seen anything quite like this on a rocky surface. If you could stand in one of these sleepy hollows on Mercury's surface, you'd find yourself, like Ichabod Crane, in a quiet, still, haunting place, with a black sky above your head. There's essentially no atmosphere on Mercury, explains Blewett. And with no atmosphere, wind doesn't blow and rain doesn't fall. So the hollows weren't carved by wind or water. Other forces must be at work. As the planet closest to the Sun, Mercury is exposed to fierce heat and extreme space weather. Blewett believes these factors play a role. A key clue, he says, is that many of the hollows are associated with central mounds or mountains inside Mercury's impact craters. These so-called peak rings are thought to be made of material forced up from the depths by the impact that formed the crater. Excavated material could be unstable when it finds itself suddenly exposed at Mercury's surface. Certain minerals, for example those that contain sulfur and other volatiles, would be easily vaporized by the onslaught of heat, solar wind, and micrometeoroids that Mercury experiences on a daily basis, he says. Perhaps sulfur is vaporizing, leaving just the other minerals, and therefore weakening the rock and making it spongier. Then the rock would crumble and erode more readily, forming these depressions. MESSENGER has indeed proven Mercury unexpectedly rich in sulfur. That in itself is a surprise that's forcing scientists to rethink how Mercury was formed. The prevailing models suggest that either (1) very early in Solar System history, during the final sweep-up of the large planetesimals that formed the planets, a colossal impact tore off much of Mercury's rocky outer layering; or (2) a hot phase of the early Sun heated up the surface enough to scorch off the outer layers. In either case, the elements with a low boiling point - volatiles like sulfur and potassium - would have been driven off. But they're still there. The old models just don't fit with the new data, so we'll have to look at other hypotheses. To figure out how the planets and Solar System came to be, scientists must understand Mercury. It's the anchor at one end of the Solar System. Learning how Mercury formed will have major implications for the rest of the planets. And MESSENGER is showing that, up to now, we've been completely wrong about this little world in so many ways! What other surprises does Mercury hold? The sleepy hollows of the innermost planet may be just the beginning. Author: Dauna Coulter Editor: Dr. Tony Phillips Credit: Science@NASA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Friable meteorites
Hello List, Friable meteorites in my collection: DaG 430 (C3-ung) - friable NWA 096 (H3.8) - slightly friable NWA 998 (SNC) - friable NWA 2484 (AEUC) - friable NWA 4398 (AEUC) - friable NWA 4590 (ANG) - very friable (aka: Tamassint) NWA 4801 (ANG) - friable NWA 4890 (AEUC) - extremely friable (aka: Digoult) NWA 5618 (AEUC) - friable NWA 6412 (H5/6) - very friable NWA 6575 (ADIO) - friable Ornans (CO3.4) - friable Saratov (L4) - friable Sulagiri (LL6) - friable Best wishes, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] I don't understand
Why is Kilabo not listed on the Met Bull? It has a name and a type but doesn't exist? Pete __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteor Bot indicates large meteor event NC, SC, GA 24OCT2011
http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/10/mbiq-indicates-south-carolina-meteor.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MPOD Oct 24, 2011
Thanks Bernd ;-) Paul deserves credit for expertly merging into scale the two photos into one pleasing presentation. Not to mention, a Superduper-fresh find by any standard, desert or otherwise. To dig into the contrast and show off the compositional features, it acquired a slightly more magenta hue, in person this piece is dramatic, and thanks to Capuccino, coffee I should have mentioned - to you Bernd, Alex, grandpa Herr Martin Chladni heir and respected friend Stefan, this busy treasure has fallen one last time; into my undeserving hands to appreciate! Strange but true. Kindest wishes Doug (all giddy about it) -Original Message- From: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 5:38 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] MPOD Oct 24, 2011 A truly superb picture! Aethetically appealing presentation! Thanks for sharing! Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad - Fresh Crusted Murchison
Today I am offing fresh crusted fragments of Murchison, Australia at a slightly discounted rate to match what I would get from eBay at full retail with the idea in mind to pass the savings on to you. Here is some info specific to these pieces: Peter Gillick was the postmaster in Murchison, Australia in 1969. After hearing about the fall, though some of the locals, he sent his sons - Peter and Kim -out to try and collect some. These specimens were collected by his sons within days or weeks of the fall. Unfortunately, it had rained during that time which tainted the specimens for science. However, they are very fresh and all specimens have some crust! Murch speaks for itself, every time I get some in stock it flies out the door and at $190 per gram for crusted material I don't expect these to last long. Available weights are listed, shipping and optional insurance is extra. When ordering please specify if you want insurance so I can streamline getting the total to you. 2.5g 2.1g 2g 1.9g 1.7g 1.6g 1.5g 1.3g 1.1g Rob Wesel -- Nakhla Dog Meteorites www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteor Bot indicates large meteor event NC, SC, GA 24OCT2011
Not sure how to report it but a friend of mine who knows I am into meteorites called me tonight. At 7:15 pm EDT he said there was a giant fireball that lit up the sky over Cherryville, NC and came down to tree top high. I will see him tomorrow at work and will get more details. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 http://spacerocks.weebly.com/index.html -Original Message- From: drtanuki Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:04 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Bot indicates large meteor event NC, SC,GA 24OCT2011 http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/10/mbiq-indicates-south-carolina-meteor.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Reports of Night Red Clouds from Ontario to Texas 24OCT2011
Dear List, My internet site is lit up with reports of strange red clouds from Ontario to Texas (100s of queries). This may be the result of a CME that is/was due to hit Earth today??? Anyone know for sure what is going on? http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/10/breaking-news-reports-of-red-and-green.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Reports of Night Red Clouds from Ontario to Texas 24OCT2011
That's what happens when you get severe drought, dust goes in the atmosphere and the normal blue tinge gets skewed back to red since the longer waves are now reflected back to our eyeballs instead of escaping into space, leaving only shorter waves to reflect back (blue). Kindest wishes Doug You can imagine what the skies looked like during the US plains dustbowl period that Nininger was looking for meteorites -Original Message- From: drtanuki drtan...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:08 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Reports of Night Red Clouds from Ontario to Texas 24OCT2011 Dear List, My internet site is lit up with reports of strange red clouds from Ontario to Texas (100s of queries). This may be the result of a CME that is/was due to hit Earth today??? Anyone know for sure what is going on? http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/10/breaking-news-reports-of-red-and-green.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites
G'Day Master Doug Very interesting. Maybe you've stumbled upon force field. Could I be referring to shields up?? Plasma is fascinating, not as fascinating as Carancas, friable, fast and low and behold a crater. Will we ever solve this dilemma? Fraid knot. Sorry, that was a personal joke. ;-) Cheers John Cabassi IMCA 2125 -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of MexicoDoug Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 11:03 PM To: gmh...@centurylink.net; mikest...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites Pete wrote: My question is how do they survive to the ground, to be found not as a dust, but in large pieces? Pete you're in the good company of David Rittenhouse who asked the same question in 1780. It's related to the other conundrum - How do they stay relatively cool inside while the surface becomes fused? That seemingly goes against common sense. And with Irons it is even better because at much lower temperatures, the Widmanstatten pattern would become annealled and lost. Yet there is a fusion region on irons that can be measured in fractions of a millimeter in some cases, and never much more. Somehow, and I'm winging it though I should know, the process of ablation is so darn efficient at removing the heat generated, much like we sweat, that the ablating surface provides a natural air conditioner for what's inside, just like a swamp cooler but absorbing even by an electric excitation mechanism which discharges the energy by transforming from electrical into light energy, hece the brightness observed/ But that still doesn't explain why going into a headwind of 10 miles per second everything doesn't rip apart. That must, and please correct me if I am wrong, be due to two or three factors working in concert on the forward face of the mass: 1. heat is wicked off immediately by the sublimation described above 2,3. the ablated material leaving the surface creates a plasma which either has a much lower frictional coefficient or creates a static layer of plasma travelling with the object which essential operates as a battering ram forming its own sacrificial layer, or both. Thus, the rock from space is like an insulated kernal traveling in its own form in place shields. When it finishes its high energy velocities it goes into free fall which reaches a maximum speed of under 400 mph in most cases much less which upon hitting a soft surface can survive. But if it hits a rock, you probably will be out of luck Carancas was different because it never reached free fall, and the impact was like whipping a piece of cement to belly flop against a hard wall of something. Even then, a portion of material in the aft section can survive. Try whipping pieces of chalk against a wall and you'll demonstrate a similar effect and perhaps get some cone of material stuck to the wall and a few crumbs falling back, along with a lot of dust. If it is large enough, and traveling in a herd of rocks which is also likely since they can become insultaed in their form in place sublimation shield, the first stones will be sacrificial but some in the back may survive. A possible explanation for Carancas. Or, just that their were some laggers that fell behind the main bolus and their higher surface area slowed them much more to better withsatand an impact. Kindest wishes Douig PS nice domain, Pete PPS another way to produce some friable meteorites is let them fall in water and see what happens and recover them later. After they dry out enough material may be leached (since they are porous) that they become much more friable. Care to give an example? -Original Message- From: Greg Hupe gmh...@centurylink.net To: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com Cc: The List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 12:57 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites Hey All, I would have to suggest Nakhlites are one of the most friable meteorites. Best Regards, Greg Hupe On Oct 23, 2011, at 9:50 PM, Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com wrote: Pete, If you want to talk friable meteorites, take a look at Tagish Lake. It is one of my most favorite meteorites, it is the least dense meteorite known to man. Fascinating! -Michael in so. Cal. On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 9:06 PM, pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com wrote: In a conversation with someone today, it was mentioned that Kilabo was extremely friable. Another really friable meteorite was Caracas, Peru. My question is how do they survive to the ground, to be found not as a dust, but in large pieces? How did they make a crator? Have the scientists figured out how the Caracas meteorite made such a large crator? Many questions and so little time to figure out what happened. Pete __ Visit the
Re: [meteorite-list] Reports of Night Red Clouds from Ontario to Texas 24OCT2011
A kind list member just sent me some pictures from Texas of this phenomenon along with a description of winds. They are experiencing a pretty intense haboob. Yup that's the word, don't laugh, it's destructive ... just like in the Sahara, similar to the phenomenon of a simoom, just quick and intense dust filled clouds (which will be red from all the back scattering as posted before) and can cause atmospheric rain; and as he said, scary as all. Maybe he can post the pix. (I've can if you want) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: drtanuki drtan...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:08 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Reports of Night Red Clouds from Ontario to Texas 24OCT2011 Dear List, My internet site is lit up with reports of strange red clouds from Ontario to Texas (100s of queries). This may be the result of a CME that is/was due to hit Earth today??? Anyone know for sure what is going on? http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/10/breaking-news-reports-of-red-and-green.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites
Hi John --- Yup something like that! But if yo9u want to be more mundane, a meteor seems to me to be just a trail of plasma, same as lightning except for the seed (the meteoroid itself). Lucky for us it is, because if it weren't, there would be nothing to see. Or, at minimum, there would be no trail. The reason for the delay and sight of the streak of light (persistent train) must be because the air-particle mixture involved in the wake has been turned into a plasma by the passing of the object. Once the energy source passes, the electrons recombine with their nuclei and the plasma is convertted into regular gas again. So, just to be clear: You are not seeing the plasma (the actual shield) when you see the meteor. What you are seeing is the energy (in the form of light) that these free roaming electrons lose as soon as they are recaptured by the nearest electron-stripped nuclei. That's an interesting concept actually, because it is simply a decay - so it has a bulk half life. What makes it interesting in this moment is that the brightest point on the trail may or may not be right around the head if the half life is sufficiently long since there is a temperature dependence in order for the nuclei to capture the electrons again, which will be different for each different mass and shape of meteormass and atmospheric densit, in addition to the composition. So it would be possibly observable if you could record an extremely fast image, to see a snapshot in time of the light energy density and how far back, or, generally speaking the energy density gradient (=brightness). That, to me brings up a whole world of possibilities of analysis. Probably someone is studying this somewhere or maybe it is old hat, but I don't have a clue. In effect what I'm saying is taking super short exposures (time interval TBD) of meteors with determined locations one could actually calculate how big the mass is. If a standard is needed, an experiment could be designed to fire particles toward earth from a low orbiting satellite. Ah, if only I were in school again, I'd be a perpetual project hopping student ;-) Kindest wishes Doug PS, I love the shields abnalogy, but I want to correct my form-in-place idea ... it was a sloppy way to say it because I also got carried away with the beam-me-up stuff. Reading the above, it's clwear the shield is not a form in place one, but rather a disposible tunnel one. Well, at least the Enterprise can use its sensors to find the residual. In order to make sense of when the Romulans sent each of the meteoroid sized invaders to hide in Earth and track them down, though, the main ship's computer will need to reference our paper on half life relationship to be studied above... -Original Message- From: John.L.Cabassi j...@cabassi.net To: 'MexicoDoug' mexicod...@aim.com; gmhupe gmh...@centurylink.net; mikestang mikest...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 10:55 pm Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites G'Day Master Doug Very interesting. Maybe you've stumbled upon force field. Could I be referring to shields up?? Plasma is fascinating, not as fascinating as Carancas, friable, fast and low and behold a crater. Will we ever solve this dilemma? Fraid knot. Sorry, that was a personal joke. ;-) Cheers John Cabassi IMCA 2125 -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of MexicoDoug Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 11:03 PM To: gmh...@centurylink.net; mikest...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Friable meteorites Pete wrote: My question is how do they survive to the ground, to be found not as a dust, but in large pieces? Pete you're in the good company of David Rittenhouse who asked the same question in 1780. It's related to the other conundrum - How do they stay relatively cool inside while the surface becomes fused? That seemingly goes against common sense. And with Irons it is even better because at much lower temperatures, the Widmanstatten pattern would become annealled and lost. Yet there is a fusion region on irons that can be measured in fractions of a millimeter in some cases, and never much more. Somehow, and I'm winging it though I should know, the process of ablation is so darn efficient at removing the heat generated, much like we sweat, that the ablating surface provides a natural air conditioner for what's inside, just like a swamp cooler but absorbing even by an electric excitation mechanism which discharges the energy by transforming from electrical into light energy, hece the brightness observed/ But that still doesn't explain why going into a headwind of 10 miles per second everything doesn't rip apart. That must, and please correct me if I am wrong, be due to two or three factors working in concert on
Re: [meteorite-list] Reports of Night Red Clouds from Ontario to Texas 24OCT2011
Yes, the auroral activity extended very far south. We had a strong showing of red (and green) auroras here in central Colorado, with activity straight overhead, so I'm not surprised it might be seen in Texas. The show tonight looked very similar to what we saw back in the early 2000s, when auroras were seen even in northern Mexico. The show lasted about 30 minutes, and started about an hour after sunset. Nothing for the last few hours, but I'm keeping my eyes peeled. Chris *** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com On 10/24/2011 8:08 PM, drtanuki wrote: Dear List, My internet site is lit up with reports of strange red clouds from Ontario to Texas (100s of queries). This may be the result of a CME that is/was due to hit Earth today??? Anyone know for sure what is going on? http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/10/breaking-news-reports-of-red-and-green.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fwd: Reports of Night Red Clouds from Ontario to Texas 24OCT2011
Right, Chris, wish it came down here - but as you might agree, the activities further south may be related to the extremely dry and dusty weather as of late, e.g., in Texas. Here's a great link with the pictures of the Northern Lights, though, wow, they were fantastic: http://www.universetoday.com/90257/reader-pics-cme-spawns-awe-inspiring-bright-red-aurorae/ Kinddest wishes Dioug -Original Message- From: Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 12:46 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Reports of Night Red Clouds from Ontario to Texas 24OCT2011 Yes, the auroral activity extended very far south. We had a strong showing of red (and green) auroras here in central Colorado, with activity straight overhead, so I'm not surprised it might be seen in Texas. The show tonight looked very similar to what we saw back in the early 2000s, when auroras were seen even in northern Mexico. The show lasted about 30 minutes, and started about an hour after sunset. Nothing for the last few hours, but I'm keeping my eyes peeled. Chris *** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com On 10/24/2011 8:08 PM, drtanuki wrote: Dear List, My internet site is lit up with reports of strange red clouds from Ontario to Texas (100s of queries). This may be the result of a CME that is/was due to hit Earth today??? Anyone know for sure what is going on? http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/10/breaking-news-reports-of-red-and-green.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
