Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Endeavor
Great shot Michaelmust have been quite an emotional moment. Graham On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 12:28 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: http://www.flickr.com/photos/29494159@N00/8007594028/in/photostream My wife took this photo from U of A this morning as the Space Shuttle flew overhead! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: NWA 5343 Contributed by: Stephan Kambach http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpod.asp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BLM New Meteorite Hunting Rules
I have always stated that when meteorites are treated like treasure, the self-proclaimed and sometimes elected rulers of U.S. soil will treat them the same. Yep, they just can't stay away from the feeding trough. Permits and fines are usually just another way to tax fellow comrades. I want to know who the group is that decided these new rules (taxes) were necessary in order to protect these meteorites? All they will have accomplished in the end is pushing the finding of this treasure underground. Perhaps some well placed letters to our representatives will result in them be fired for wasting time and taxpayers money on such a thin market. Meteorites are nothing but another commodity as far as they are concerned. Excuse me, I meant to say collectable which can be taxed in the highest capitol gains bracket. Many do not know that the commodities gold,silver and platinum are no longer considered investments by those in charge and have been secretly moved into the collectables bracket in the new health care reform law. A form called a 1009-B (B for bullion) will be issued to purchasers of these commodities, I mean collectables. Don't get caught with gold in your IRA or as part of your investment portfolio. What will be the next collectable, perhaps pork bellies or heating oil? Seems un-American to me. That's my rant for the day. Just had to vent some anger over this poor situation brought on by others! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
Hello Listers What is confusing for me is that its seem the new BLM rules make it impossible for scientist and institutions to hunt and collect meteorites in the name for science, I wonder why? You would think it would be just as easy for scientist as it is with the casual collector. As speaking of a casual collectors, how could one be 100% its a meteorite? At the end of the day, its a stone until otherwise prove or disprove by someone with expertise. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBay Store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html? [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules Jeff Grossman jngrossman at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 19:06:11 EDT 2012 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules * Next message: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Update: Near Target Rock 'Matijevic' * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] All, For those of you who don't know, I contribute to this list as a private citizen, but I work at NASA headquarters, with duties that extend to oversight of curation and research programs. I will be reading all posts on the list pertaining to this issue. Jeff On 9/20/2012 6:37 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: I have been in communications with the BLM on and off all day. Art, thank for the HTML reminder as I have been trying to post all day and thought I had this set correctly! Here is the first response: Dear Mr. Wooddell: The application fee is dependent on the time it takes for BLM to process the project proposal in the application. This would be determined by the field office manager after the application is submitted and reviewed. These fees would be estimated for you prior to the processing of the application, and would include monitoring fees as well. The permit application/ permit is 2920-1 attached; fees would be on page 2 when a permit is issued. Some examples of what the fees would be can be found on the following web site and one example is attached. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/more/lands.html You mentioned a “nation-wide” permit in your email. BLM issues permits on a local level, and at maximum could be on a state-wide level, for lands that we administer in the Western States. Thank you,Lucia Kuizon --- I am not going to post their second response but they are now aware of some issues that may or may not change the wording. I feel it is imperative for NASA to reach out and support hunters on this issue in regards to the need to hunt fresh falls immediately, without delay of some permit process. While they are claiming media sparked this, most of us knew it was coming, just did not know when or how the wording would be. The current fee structure is twofold. 1. The application / permit. 2. The monitoring fee. Currently the fees will range from ~$100 to ~$1100 for commercial huntersthose seeking profit. This is based on their current cost recovery methods. I have both the application and the fee schedule as example based on the above response. If anyone wants them shoot me a private email. The big issue for hunters is that this will be based on a regional level where each district supervisor may or may not have special conditions, etc. Bottom line is that it will be required to have permits in different hunting areas and could greatly increase overhead for professional hunters. If hunters have to wait for a permit process during a meteor event that produces meteorites, I feel science looses. Regards, Jim * Previous message: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules * Next message: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Update: Near Target Rock 'Matijevic' * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] BLM
I live in Southern New Mexico. I ran about 100 sections, part of a larger ranch for a little over 5 years( 1999 to 2004) The part I ran was almost all classified as Wilderness Study Area (WSA). Look up the rules for WSA. The only time there was anyone in the area that was not there to visit me was hunting season. The hunters drove all over off road , left their camps a mess when they left, generally trashed the place. I begged the BLM to come bust somebody so I could spread the word and maybe get everyone to follow the rules. Never once did a BLM person show up during the 5 years, except some old volutiers and all they did was drive around and sometimes pick up some trash. In 2004 there was one BLM Agent ( The ones who carry guns) to cover all of southern New Mexico. Border Patrol was a different matter. There were more Border Patrol on the ranch daily than illegals passed through yearly. They mostly were hunting arrowheads, shooting rabbits, or picnicking. I collect arrowheads. I have all the laws concerning artifacts in the binder made up for my files. ARPA laws state in is not againt the law to pick up arrowheads on the surface. ( ARPA was passed in 1979, Jimmy Crater was the president and he was an arrowhead collector). He refused to sign ARPA stating that he did not some Boy Scout arrested for picking an arrowhead up. So it was changed to exclude arrowhead hunting, only arrowheads nothing else, and that is stated a couple places in the law. I had a friend in another BLM area got harassed by a BLM person, so I decide to check in person. There was not one person in the Las Cruces BLM office who could tell me anything except that you could not do it. It took me weeks to find the Agent, and he told me a lot of different things. The one that like was it was not against the law to pick up an arrowhead if you were working, hiking or whatever else on BLM land and found one. Where you were breaking the law was if you went to the BLM land with the intent of looking for arrowheads. I had the law with me so I pulled out a copy of ARPA and ask him to show me where that was stated as I had read it numerous times and never seen any thing written like that. He did not read anything just stated that I was not a lawyer and probably to stupid to understand legal writing. I studied Animal Science, Business, and Civil Engineering, so I am maybe not as smart as a Federal employee, but I know how to read. Someone needs to have a lawyer friend really read the new meteorite law, including all the fine print, because the BLM people read the title and go from there, or they are trying to run you off an area so they can go back and hunt themselves. Another story about arrowheads and ARPA. I found a copy of the Forest Service laws on artifacts. It stated that it was against the the to pick up chipped stone projectiles ( arrowheads ). I contacted the Forest Service and questioned it. They told me that ARPA was only a guideline for federal agencies to use to make their own regulations. I said so the Congress, Senate, and the President had studied, debated, and finally passed the law so some GS2 employee of the Forest Service could change to to what ever he wanted to. I have not seen the new laws but will track one down soon and have a judge friend of mine write an opionon and sent it to the list. Saludos Doug __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
Hi List, The new rule is missing a chromosome. (to put it nicely) But, if they are going to let this madness stand, then at least they should distinguish between a fresh fall and old finds. Perhaps an exception can be made for the recovery of new falls? If a new fall happens over BLM land, the manager for that area could be informed and he/she could waive the rule for that event. Also, I agree with what some of the others here have already said. All this will do is push meteorite hunting into the black market - just like arrowheads and fossils. Authority : Do you have paperwork for that arrowhead/fossil? Finder : No, it comes from an old collection back in the 1930's, it's grandfathered in. (wink) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 9/21/12, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers What is confusing for me is that its seem the new BLM rules make it impossible for scientist and institutions to hunt and collect meteorites in the name for science, I wonder why? You would think it would be just as easy for scientist as it is with the casual collector. As speaking of a casual collectors, how could one be 100% its a meteorite? At the end of the day, its a stone until otherwise prove or disprove by someone with expertise. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBay Store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html? [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules Jeff Grossman jngrossman at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 19:06:11 EDT 2012 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules * Next message: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Update: Near Target Rock 'Matijevic' * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] All, For those of you who don't know, I contribute to this list as a private citizen, but I work at NASA headquarters, with duties that extend to oversight of curation and research programs. I will be reading all posts on the list pertaining to this issue. Jeff On 9/20/2012 6:37 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: I have been in communications with the BLM on and off all day. Art, thank for the HTML reminder as I have been trying to post all day and thought I had this set correctly! Here is the first response: Dear Mr. Wooddell: The application fee is dependent on the time it takes for BLM to process the project proposal in the application. This would be determined by the field office manager after the application is submitted and reviewed. These fees would be estimated for you prior to the processing of the application, and would include monitoring fees as well. The permit application/ permit is 2920-1 attached; fees would be on page 2 when a permit is issued. Some examples of what the fees would be can be found on the following web site and one example is attached. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/more/lands.html You mentioned a “nation-wide” permit in your email. BLM issues permits on a local level, and at maximum could be on a state-wide level, for lands that we administer in the Western States. Thank you,Lucia Kuizon --- I am not going to post their second response but they are now aware of some issues that may or may not change the wording. I feel it is imperative for NASA to reach out and support hunters on this issue in regards to the need to hunt fresh falls immediately, without delay of some permit process. While they are claiming media sparked this, most of us knew it was coming, just did not know when or how the wording would be. The current fee structure is twofold. 1. The application / permit. 2. The monitoring fee. Currently the fees will range from ~$100 to ~$1100 for commercial huntersthose seeking profit. This is based on their current cost recovery methods. I have both the application and the fee schedule as example based on the above response. If anyone wants them shoot me a private email. The big issue for hunters is that this will be based on a regional level where each district supervisor may or may not have special conditions, etc. Bottom line is that it will be required to have permits in different hunting areas and could greatly increase overhead for professional hunters. If hunters have to wait for a permit process during a meteor event that produces meteorites, I feel science looses. Regards, Jim * Previous message: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules * Next message: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Update: Near Target Rock 'Matijevic' * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More
[meteorite-list] New Big Impact Theory (Eltanin asteroid impact)
In “New Big Impact Theory” at http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2012-September/087243.html Sterling K. Webb wrote: “New Big Impact theory. In case you find the references to a new Ice Age puzzling, I'll remind you that it's the Ice Age that we in right now. Yes, friends, we are in an Ice Age, at 5-7 C. below the long-term norm.” and “Did a 'Forgotten' Meteor Have a Deadly, Icy Double-Punch?” http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120919103612.htm This article refers to: Goff, J., C. Chague-Goff, M. Archer, D. Dominey-Howes, and C. Turney, 2012, The Eltanin asteroid impact: possible South Pacific palaeomegatsunami footprint and potential implications for the Pliocene-Pleistocene transition. Journal of Quaternary Science. Article first published online: 3 SEP 2012. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jqs.2571/abstract Related to this is an interesting paper published online in Geology. It is: Gao, C., J. H. McAndrews, X. Wang, J. Menzies, C. L. Turton, B. D. Wood, J. Pei, and C. Kodors, 2012, Glaciation of North America in the James Bay Lowland, Canada, 3.5 Ma. geology. First published online September 4, 2012 http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/early/2012/09/04/G33092.1.abstract This provides evidence of glaciation in North America of continental glaciations that are of a magnitude that is likely comparable to Pleistocene glaciations started about 3.5 million years ago. This glaciation coincides with the documented intensification of glaciation in the northwest Pacific region about 3.45 million years ago. Thus, Ice Ages were already in process a million years before the Eltanin asteroid impact and it may have simply only accentuated, if anything at all, climatic changes that had already started. Best wishes, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
If you find a 10.01 pound meteorite on federal land, do not take a picture of it with your cell phone if you are a poacher. The GPS coordinates will be imbedded in the image. The Onstar or other system in your car will also track every one of your moves. This is how rental car agencies can tell if you have taken one of their cars off-road. The new bullion form for gold, platinum and silver is a 1099-B not a 1009-B as I stated in my last email. Yes, this is a real tax increase and was hidden in 2010 under the new health care reform. Talk to your accountant in order to avoid fines and penalties. A worst case nightmare would be a 1099-M form for meteorites. Just kidding although it may be another way for the hogs at the feeding through to take another bite. Take Care, Adam - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Cc: Meteorite Central meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules Hi List, The new rule is missing a chromosome. (to put it nicely) But, if they are going to let this madness stand, then at least they should distinguish between a fresh fall and old finds. Perhaps an exception can be made for the recovery of new falls? If a new fall happens over BLM land, the manager for that area could be informed and he/she could waive the rule for that event. Also, I agree with what some of the others here have already said. All this will do is push meteorite hunting into the black market - just like arrowheads and fossils. Authority : Do you have paperwork for that arrowhead/fossil? Finder : No, it comes from an old collection back in the 1930's, it's grandfathered in. (wink) Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 9/21/12, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers What is confusing for me is that its seem the new BLM rules make it impossible for scientist and institutions to hunt and collect meteorites in the name for science, I wonder why? You would think it would be just as easy for scientist as it is with the casual collector. As speaking of a casual collectors, how could one be 100% its a meteorite? At the end of the day, its a stone until otherwise prove or disprove by someone with expertise. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBay Store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html? [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules Jeff Grossman jngrossman at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 19:06:11 EDT 2012 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules * Next message: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Update: Near Target Rock 'Matijevic' * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] All, For those of you who don't know, I contribute to this list as a private citizen, but I work at NASA headquarters, with duties that extend to oversight of curation and research programs. I will be reading all posts on the list pertaining to this issue. Jeff On 9/20/2012 6:37 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: I have been in communications with the BLM on and off all day. Art, thank for the HTML reminder as I have been trying to post all day and thought I had this set correctly! Here is the first response: Dear Mr. Wooddell: The application fee is dependent on the time it takes for BLM to process the project proposal in the application. This would be determined by the field office manager after the application is submitted and reviewed. These fees would be estimated for you prior to the processing of the application, and would include monitoring fees as well. The permit application/ permit is 2920-1 attached; fees would be on page 2 when a permit is issued. Some examples of what the fees would be can be found on the following web site and one example is attached. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/more/lands.html You mentioned a “nation-wide” permit in your email. BLM issues permits on a local level, and at maximum could be on a state-wide level, for lands that we administer in the Western States. Thank you,Lucia Kuizon --- I am not going to post their second response but they are now aware of some issues that may or may not change the wording. I feel it is imperative for NASA to reach out and support hunters on this issue in regards to the need to hunt fresh falls immediately, without delay of some permit process. While they are claiming media sparked this, most of us knew it was coming, just did not know when or how the wording would be. The current fee structure is twofold. 1. The application /
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
Jeff, I would say that given your position and all you've done for us, we are in very good hands. A huge THANK YOU for all you do. Sincerely, Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: All, For those of you who don't know, I contribute to this list as a private citizen, but I work at NASA headquarters, with duties that extend to oversight of curation and research programs. I will be reading all posts on the list pertaining to this issue. Jeff On 9/20/2012 6:37 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: I have been in communications with the BLM on and off all day. Art, thank for the HTML reminder as I have been trying to post all day and thought I had this set correctly! Here is the first response: Dear Mr. Wooddell: The application fee is dependent on the time it takes for BLM to process the project proposal in the application. This would be determined by the field office manager after the application is submitted and reviewed. These fees would be estimated for you prior to the processing of the application, and would include monitoring fees as well. The permit application/ permit is 2920-1 attached; fees would be on page 2 when a permit is issued. Some examples of what the fees would be can be found on the following web site and one example is attached. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/more/lands.html You mentioned a “nation-wide” permit in your email. BLM issues permits on a local level, and at maximum could be on a state-wide level, for lands that we administer in the Western States. Thank you,Lucia Kuizon --- I am not going to post their second response but they are now aware of some issues that may or may not change the wording. I feel it is imperative for NASA to reach out and support hunters on this issue in regards to the need to hunt fresh falls immediately, without delay of some permit process. While they are claiming media sparked this, most of us knew it was coming, just did not know when or how the wording would be. The current fee structure is twofold. 1. The application / permit. 2. The monitoring fee. Currently the fees will range from ~$100 to ~$1100 for commercial huntersthose seeking profit. This is based on their current cost recovery methods. I have both the application and the fee schedule as example based on the above response. If anyone wants them shoot me a private email. The big issue for hunters is that this will be based on a regional level where each district supervisor may or may not have special conditions, etc. Bottom line is that it will be required to have permits in different hunting areas and could greatly increase overhead for professional hunters. If hunters have to wait for a permit process during a meteor event that produces meteorites, I feel science looses. Regards, Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
Links: http://beginnersinvest.about.com/od/capitalgainstax/ss/capital-gains-tax-rates_4.htm Gold and Silver Are Taxed as Collectibles Gold and silver bullion, such as American Eagle gold coins, Canadian Gold Maple Leaf coins, and South African Krugerrand gold coins, are taxed at the same capital gains rate as collectibles. This includes Gold ETFs and Silver ETFs. Investors make a very real mistake assuming they will be able to pay the lower capital gains tax rate that is paid on stocks and bonds, sometimes causing them to experience painful surprises come tax day. Here is a link : http://www.ehow.com/info_7814465_tax-rules-selling-gold-coins.html 1099-B * As of 2010, sales of gold bullion did not need to be reported on a Form 1099-B unless they conform with Commodity Futures TradingCommission (CFTC) futures contract specifications, which include requirements for quantity, purity and weight. Under the rules for 1099-B, though, sales in a 24-hour period must be aggregated to determine whether they fit the CFTC requirements. Exchanges of bullion for other goods or services also need not be reported unless they are made on a qualifying barter exchange. Changes in the Law * The health care reform act signed by President Obama in 2010 includes a provision that will change the way gold bullion dealers operate. Effective in the 2012 tax year, any purchase of gold bullion over $600 by a dealer will have to be reported on Form 1099-B. According to ABC News, this change in the law will vastly increase the number of 1099s that must be required and will provide the federal government with much more detailed information about dealer purchases of bullion. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - Lunar, Brachinite, Ureilite, Diogenite, OC's, Oman and NWA
Thanks for letting us know Mike! Please note that the new NWA 7449 is a 2009 fall that went unnoticed. I'm preparing a webpage about it and will present it to you in some time. All the best, Rob Lenssen www.AsteroidChippings.com -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Namens Galactic Stone Ironworks Verzonden: vrijdag 21 september 2012 16:32 Aan: Meteorite List Onderwerp: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - Lunar, Brachinite, Ureilite, Diogenite, OC's, Oman and NWA Hi Bulletin Watchers, 21 new approvals were published today. 20 are from Oman and one is from NWA. The approvals include a lunar, a handful of achondrites, and some OC's. Linkaroni - http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=sfor=namesants=falls=vali ds=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmbl ist=Allrect=phot=snew=1pnt=Normal%20tabledr=page=0 Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
Hi, My understanding of meteorite ownership law in the USA is that the meteorite belongs to the land owner. In the Old Woman case the government exercised its right to meteorites found on government land. Meteorite hunters have been lucky that the government has not claimed all finds. I think that the government would have been within the law to do so. So this new rule gives meteorite hunters an clear right to keep the meteorites they find (up to 10 pounds). This rule gives meteorite hunters more not less rights. It all depends on your point of view. Thanks, Peter -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Grossman Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:06 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules All, For those of you who don't know, I contribute to this list as a private citizen, but I work at NASA headquarters, with duties that extend to oversight of curation and research programs. I will be reading all posts on the list pertaining to this issue. Jeff On 9/20/2012 6:37 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: I have been in communications with the BLM on and off all day. Art, thank for the HTML reminder as I have been trying to post all day and thought I had this set correctly! Here is the first response: Dear Mr. Wooddell: The application fee is dependent on the time it takes for BLM to process the project proposal in the application. This would be determined by the field office manager after the application is submitted and reviewed. These fees would be estimated for you prior to the processing of the application, and would include monitoring fees as well. The permit application/ permit is 2920-1 attached; fees would be on page 2 when a permit is issued. Some examples of what the fees would be can be found on the following web site and one example is attached. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/more/lands.html You mentioned a nation-wide permit in your email. BLM issues permits on a local level, and at maximum could be on a state-wide level, for lands that we administer in the Western States. Thank you,Lucia Kuizon --- I am not going to post their second response but they are now aware of some issues that may or may not change the wording. I feel it is imperative for NASA to reach out and support hunters on this issue in regards to the need to hunt fresh falls immediately, without delay of some permit process. While they are claiming media sparked this, most of us knew it was coming, just did not know when or how the wording would be. The current fee structure is twofold. 1. The application / permit. 2. The monitoring fee. Currently the fees will range from ~$100 to ~$1100 for commercial huntersthose seeking profit. This is based on their current cost recovery methods. I have both the application and the fee schedule as example based on the above response. If anyone wants them shoot me a private email. The big issue for hunters is that this will be based on a regional level where each district supervisor may or may not have special conditions, etc. Bottom line is that it will be required to have permits in different hunting areas and could greatly increase overhead for professional hunters. If hunters have to wait for a permit process during a meteor event that produces meteorites, I feel science looses. Regards, Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - Lunar, Brachinite, Ureilite, Diogenite, OC's, Oman and NWA
Congratulations, Rob !!! Impatiently waiting for more news about this fall... Martin Von: Rob Lenssen rlens...@planet.nl An: 'Galactic Stone Ironworks' meteoritem...@gmail.com, 'Meteorite List' meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - Lunar, Brachinite, Ureilite, Diogenite, OC's, Oman and NWA Datum: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 16:56:16 +0200 Thanks for letting us know Mike! Please note that the new NWA 7449 is a 2009 fall that went unnoticed. I'm preparing a webpage about it and will present it to you in some time. All the best, Rob Lenssen www.AsteroidChippings.com -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Namens Galactic Stone Ironworks Verzonden: vrijdag 21 september 2012 16:32 Aan: Meteorite List Onderwerp: [meteorite-list] Met Bulletin Update - Lunar, Brachinite, Ureilite, Diogenite, OC's, Oman and NWA Hi Bulletin Watchers, 21 new approvals were published today. 20 are from Oman and one is from NWA. The approvals include a lunar, a handful of achondrites, and some OC's. Linkaroni - http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=sfor=namesants=falls=vali ds=stype=containslrec=50map=gebrowse=country=Allsrt=namecateg=Allmbl ist=Allrect=phot=snew=1pnt=Normal%20tabledr=page=0 Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
To the best of my knowledge and from my point of view, the federal government has never impeded the recovery of meteorites. People have always assumed 25 pounds per day based on other rules. No one really had any issue. There has always been internet chatter about whether it was legal or not, stories that could not be proved. Everyone knew at anytime they could be challenged in regards to ownership (and still can be). So, to say more, not less, is not really correct. These new rules did clarify the detector use issue. So, a question begs. How many professional meteorite hunters are in the USA that actively hunt for profit??? I can count the ones I know on my hands. How many showed up to the recent fall, Battle Mountain? According the nice report from Larry Atkins, what was it...about 16 people total? So the BLM is doing this for a few handfuls of people! At it's best it is silly and an absolute waste of taxpayer money. I am guessing there are less than 200 professional hunters in the USA and the real number is probably less than 50. To think this is an issue that derserves national action is nuts. They can not enforce the rules they have now clearly, and they are just piling on more oppressive rules they can not enforce! And if they nail the wrong guy, it would go to the highest court of the land and likely get thrown out. The Old Women case was a joke and not handled well at all by the defense. Kind regards! Jim On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 8:18 AM, Peter Scherff petersche...@rcn.com wrote: Hi, My understanding of meteorite ownership law in the USA is that the meteorite belongs to the land owner. In the Old Woman case the government exercised its right to meteorites found on government land. Meteorite hunters have been lucky that the government has not claimed all finds. I think that the government would have been within the law to do so. So this new rule gives meteorite hunters an clear right to keep the meteorites they find (up to 10 pounds). This rule gives meteorite hunters more not less rights. It all depends on your point of view. Thanks, Peter -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Grossman Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:06 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules All, For those of you who don't know, I contribute to this list as a private citizen, but I work at NASA headquarters, with duties that extend to oversight of curation and research programs. I will be reading all posts on the list pertaining to this issue. Jeff On 9/20/2012 6:37 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: I have been in communications with the BLM on and off all day. Art, thank for the HTML reminder as I have been trying to post all day and thought I had this set correctly! Here is the first response: Dear Mr. Wooddell: The application fee is dependent on the time it takes for BLM to process the project proposal in the application. This would be determined by the field office manager after the application is submitted and reviewed. These fees would be estimated for you prior to the processing of the application, and would include monitoring fees as well. The permit application/ permit is 2920-1 attached; fees would be on page 2 when a permit is issued. Some examples of what the fees would be can be found on the following web site and one example is attached. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/more/lands.html You mentioned a nation-wide permit in your email. BLM issues permits on a local level, and at maximum could be on a state-wide level, for lands that we administer in the Western States. Thank you,Lucia Kuizon --- I am not going to post their second response but they are now aware of some issues that may or may not change the wording. I feel it is imperative for NASA to reach out and support hunters on this issue in regards to the need to hunt fresh falls immediately, without delay of some permit process. While they are claiming media sparked this, most of us knew it was coming, just did not know when or how the wording would be. The current fee structure is twofold. 1. The application / permit. 2. The monitoring fee. Currently the fees will range from ~$100 to ~$1100 for commercial huntersthose seeking profit. This is based on their current cost recovery methods. I have both the application and the fee schedule as example based on the above response. If anyone wants them shoot me a private email. The big issue for hunters is that this will be based on a regional level where each district supervisor may or may not have special conditions, etc. Bottom line is that it will be required to have permits in different hunting areas and could greatly increase overhead for professional hunters. If hunters have to wait for a permit process during a meteor event that
Re: [meteorite-list] BLM
As I understand it, this new memo from the BLM is not a law. Last I checked the BLM does not have the power to write laws. Michael in so. Cal. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Doug Achim dougac...@yahoo.com wrote: I live in Southern New Mexico. I ran about 100 sections, part of a larger ranch for a little over 5 years( 1999 to 2004) The part I ran was almost all classified as Wilderness Study Area (WSA). Look up the rules for WSA. The only time there was anyone in the area that was not there to visit me was hunting season. The hunters drove all over off road , left their camps a mess when they left, generally trashed the place. I begged the BLM to come bust somebody so I could spread the word and maybe get everyone to follow the rules. Never once did a BLM person show up during the 5 years, except some old volutiers and all they did was drive around and sometimes pick up some trash. In 2004 there was one BLM Agent ( The ones who carry guns) to cover all of southern New Mexico. Border Patrol was a different matter. There were more Border Patrol on the ranch daily than illegals passed through yearly. They mostly were hunting arrowheads, shooting rabbits, or picnicking. I collect arrowheads. I have all the laws concerning artifacts in the binder made up for my files. ARPA laws state in is not againt the law to pick up arrowheads on the surface. ( ARPA was passed in 1979, Jimmy Crater was the president and he was an arrowhead collector). He refused to sign ARPA stating that he did not some Boy Scout arrested for picking an arrowhead up. So it was changed to exclude arrowhead hunting, only arrowheads nothing else, and that is stated a couple places in the law. I had a friend in another BLM area got harassed by a BLM person, so I decide to check in person. There was not one person in the Las Cruces BLM office who could tell me anything except that you could not do it. It took me weeks to find the Agent, and he told me a lot of different things. The one that like was it was not against the law to pick up an arrowhead if you were working, hiking or whatever else on BLM land and found one. Where you were breaking the law was if you went to the BLM land with the intent of looking for arrowheads. I had the law with me so I pulled out a copy of ARPA and ask him to show me where that was stated as I had read it numerous times and never seen any thing written like that. He did not read anything just stated that I was not a lawyer and probably to stupid to understand legal writing. I studied Animal Science, Business, and Civil Engineering, so I am maybe not as smart as a Federal employee, but I know how to read. Someone needs to have a lawyer friend really read the new meteorite law, including all the fine print, because the BLM people read the title and go from there, or they are trying to run you off an area so they can go back and hunt themselves. Another story about arrowheads and ARPA. I found a copy of the Forest Service laws on artifacts. It stated that it was against the the to pick up chipped stone projectiles ( arrowheads ). I contacted the Forest Service and questioned it. They told me that ARPA was only a guideline for federal agencies to use to make their own regulations. I said so the Congress, Senate, and the President had studied, debated, and finally passed the law so some GS2 employee of the Forest Service could change to to what ever he wanted to. I have not seen the new laws but will track one down soon and have a judge friend of mine write an opionon and sent it to the list. Saludos Doug __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
Shawn, You mean you didn't hear about the hundreds of meteorite experts now on staff at the BLM that are going to verify everyone's finds and classify them so their fair market value can be assessed? Oh wait, me neither. Michael in so. Cal. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers What is confusing for me is that its seem the new BLM rules make it impossible for scientist and institutions to hunt and collect meteorites in the name for science, I wonder why? You would think it would be just as easy for scientist as it is with the casual collector. As speaking of a casual collectors, how could one be 100% its a meteorite? At the end of the day, its a stone until otherwise prove or disprove by someone with expertise. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBay Store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html? [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules Jeff Grossman jngrossman at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 19:06:11 EDT 2012 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules * Next message: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Update: Near Target Rock 'Matijevic' * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] All, For those of you who don't know, I contribute to this list as a private citizen, but I work at NASA headquarters, with duties that extend to oversight of curation and research programs. I will be reading all posts on the list pertaining to this issue. Jeff On 9/20/2012 6:37 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: I have been in communications with the BLM on and off all day. Art, thank for the HTML reminder as I have been trying to post all day and thought I had this set correctly! Here is the first response: Dear Mr. Wooddell: The application fee is dependent on the time it takes for BLM to process the project proposal in the application. This would be determined by the field office manager after the application is submitted and reviewed. These fees would be estimated for you prior to the processing of the application, and would include monitoring fees as well. The permit application/ permit is 2920-1 attached; fees would be on page 2 when a permit is issued. Some examples of what the fees would be can be found on the following web site and one example is attached. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/more/lands.html You mentioned a “nation-wide” permit in your email. BLM issues permits on a local level, and at maximum could be on a state-wide level, for lands that we administer in the Western States. Thank you,Lucia Kuizon --- I am not going to post their second response but they are now aware of some issues that may or may not change the wording. I feel it is imperative for NASA to reach out and support hunters on this issue in regards to the need to hunt fresh falls immediately, without delay of some permit process. While they are claiming media sparked this, most of us knew it was coming, just did not know when or how the wording would be. The current fee structure is twofold. 1. The application / permit. 2. The monitoring fee. Currently the fees will range from ~$100 to ~$1100 for commercial huntersthose seeking profit. This is based on their current cost recovery methods. I have both the application and the fee schedule as example based on the above response. If anyone wants them shoot me a private email. The big issue for hunters is that this will be based on a regional level where each district supervisor may or may not have special conditions, etc. Bottom line is that it will be required to have permits in different hunting areas and could greatly increase overhead for professional hunters. If hunters have to wait for a permit process during a meteor event that produces meteorites, I feel science looses. Regards, Jim * Previous message: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules * Next message: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Update: Near Target Rock 'Matijevic' * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
The bigger question, Carl, is who determines that what you've found are indeed meteorites? Do planetary geologists now work for the BLM? Michael in so. Cal. On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:55 PM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Jim, Did your correspondence include monetary penalties? Because like the Obamacare sometimes penalties are cheaper than the alternative. And once penalties are paid The other obvious question is enforcement. What do they do when/ if caught? Do they dump them out? Do they confiscate them? Obviously it is largely an honor system bu,t the bottom line is for new falls that in order to legally sell them you must provide a copy of the permit otherwise they would taint a collection. Right? This is sad news. Carl meteoritemax __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
Peter, you either have unlimited rights or you have no rights. Laws (of which this meteorite BLM nonsense is not) do not grant people rights. Any law that benefits a government over its people has no place in my book. Michael in so. Cal. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 8:18 AM, Peter Scherff petersche...@rcn.com wrote: Hi, My understanding of meteorite ownership law in the USA is that the meteorite belongs to the land owner. In the Old Woman case the government exercised its right to meteorites found on government land. Meteorite hunters have been lucky that the government has not claimed all finds. I think that the government would have been within the law to do so. So this new rule gives meteorite hunters an clear right to keep the meteorites they find (up to 10 pounds). This rule gives meteorite hunters more not less rights. It all depends on your point of view. Thanks, Peter -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Grossman Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:06 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules All, For those of you who don't know, I contribute to this list as a private citizen, but I work at NASA headquarters, with duties that extend to oversight of curation and research programs. I will be reading all posts on the list pertaining to this issue. Jeff On 9/20/2012 6:37 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: I have been in communications with the BLM on and off all day. Art, thank for the HTML reminder as I have been trying to post all day and thought I had this set correctly! Here is the first response: Dear Mr. Wooddell: The application fee is dependent on the time it takes for BLM to process the project proposal in the application. This would be determined by the field office manager after the application is submitted and reviewed. These fees would be estimated for you prior to the processing of the application, and would include monitoring fees as well. The permit application/ permit is 2920-1 attached; fees would be on page 2 when a permit is issued. Some examples of what the fees would be can be found on the following web site and one example is attached. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/more/lands.html You mentioned a nation-wide permit in your email. BLM issues permits on a local level, and at maximum could be on a state-wide level, for lands that we administer in the Western States. Thank you,Lucia Kuizon --- I am not going to post their second response but they are now aware of some issues that may or may not change the wording. I feel it is imperative for NASA to reach out and support hunters on this issue in regards to the need to hunt fresh falls immediately, without delay of some permit process. While they are claiming media sparked this, most of us knew it was coming, just did not know when or how the wording would be. The current fee structure is twofold. 1. The application / permit. 2. The monitoring fee. Currently the fees will range from ~$100 to ~$1100 for commercial huntersthose seeking profit. This is based on their current cost recovery methods. I have both the application and the fee schedule as example based on the above response. If anyone wants them shoot me a private email. The big issue for hunters is that this will be based on a regional level where each district supervisor may or may not have special conditions, etc. Bottom line is that it will be required to have permits in different hunting areas and could greatly increase overhead for professional hunters. If hunters have to wait for a permit process during a meteor event that produces meteorites, I feel science looses. Regards, Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fw: BLM
I just drove to the BLM office in Las Cruces New Mexico and ask them for the laws concerning meteorites. Not one person had any idea about it much less any new regulations recently inacted. The boss there stated that he thought it was legal but a sample of your meteorite had to be submitted to the Smithsonian. It is my understanding that any changes to the BLM regulations would have to go through the same process as enacting a new law so it seems impossible that an area director could just make a new addendum to the existing regulations. But again this is southern New Mexico and we are already under Marshall law with all the Border Patrol, Customs and Border Protection, ICE, DEA,FBI, Customs, and some kind of Federal Police ( Who Drive around in black Subaerans, and heilocopters) usually no where near the border, ( they leave that to the Texas and New Mexico State police and County Sheriff Departments. Saludos Doug - Forwarded Message - From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net To: Doug Achim dougac...@yahoo.com Cc: Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BLM Doug, Thank you for this info. Like Shawn said. Meteorites are just rocks. How does casual rock collecting fit in those laws? Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Doug Achim dougac...@yahoo.com wrote: I live in Southern New Mexico. I ran about 100 sections, part of a larger ranch for a little over 5 years( 1999 to 2004) The part I ran was almost all classified as Wilderness Study Area (WSA). Look up the rules for WSA. The only time there was anyone in the area that was not there to visit me was hunting season. The hunters drove all over off road , left their camps a mess when they left, generally trashed the place. I begged the BLM to come bust somebody so I could spread the word and maybe get everyone to follow the rules. Never once did a BLM person show up during the 5 years, except some old volutiers and all they did was drive around and sometimes pick up some trash. In 2004 there was one BLM Agent ( The ones who carry guns) to cover all of southern New Mexico. Border Patrol was a different matter. There were more Border Patrol on the ranch daily than illegals passed through yearly. They mostly were hunting arrowheads, shooting rabbits, or picnicking. I collect arrowheads. I have all the laws concerning artifacts in the binder made up for my files. ARPA laws state in is not against the law to pick up arrowheads on the surface. ( ARPA was passed in 1979, Jimmy Crater was the president and he was an arrowhead collector). He refused to sign ARPA stating that he did not some Boy Scout arrested for picking an arrowhead up. So it was changed to exclude arrowhead hunting, only arrowheads nothing else, and that is stated a couple places in the law. I had a friend in another BLM area got harassed by a BLM person, so I decide to check in person. There was not one person in the Las Cruces BLM office who could tell me anything except that you could not do it. It took me weeks to find the Agent, and he told me a lot of different things. The one that like was it was not against the law to pick up an arrowhead if you were working, hiking or whatever else on BLM land and found one. Where you were breaking the law was if you went to the BLM land with the intent of looking for arrowheads. I had the law with me so I pulled out a copy of ARPA and ask him to show me where that was stated as I had read it numerous times and never seen any thing written like that. He did not read anything just stated that I was not a lawyer and probably to stupid to understand legal writing. I studied Animal Science, Business, and Civil Engineering, so I am maybe not as smart as a Federal employee, but I know how to read. Someone needs to have a lawyer friend really read the new meteorite law, including all the fine print, because the BLM people read the title and go from there, or they are trying to run you off an area so they can go back and hunt themselves. Another story about arrowheads and ARPA. I found a copy of the Forest Service laws on artifacts. It stated that it was against the the to pick up chipped stone projectiles ( arrowheads ). I contacted the Forest Service and questioned it. They told me that ARPA was only a guideline for federal agencies to use to make their own regulations. I said so the Congress, Senate, and the President had studied, debated, and finally passed the law so some GS2 employee of the Forest Service could change to to what ever he wanted to. I have not seen the new laws but will track one down soon and have a judge friend of mine write an opinion and sent it to the list. Saludos Doug __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
Hi Jim and List, I think your estimate of 50 professional meteorite hunters in the USA is very generous. I would wager it's even less. The majority of the professional hunters are members of this List. Granted, not all of them post regularly, but the major hunters are well-known. I can count them on two hands and have a couple fingers left over. I guess one could define professional meteorite hunter as someone who files taxes and lists their profession on the forms as such. How many people actually earn a sustainable living solely from hunting and finding meteorites? Maybe a dozen. Someone who goes out into the field for the purpose of finding meteorites, and finds some, and then sells a few is not necessarily a commercial or professional hunter. Just because somebody sells the occasional specimen on eBay does not mean they are making a profit, nor does it mean they are a commercial vendor in the commonly-accepted definition of the term. The bonafide pro meteorite hunters reading this can testify that making a profit is hit and miss at best. Most of the time these hunters go out into the field, spend a ton of money in expenses, and come home empty-handed. I know a few people who flew out to Sutter's Mill and spent weeks beating the bush and they didn't find a single fragment. If they find a small frag on the last day of hunting and sell it, does that make that person a professional hunter? Even if they lost thousands of dollars in expenses on the trip and don't sell another find for years or more? This new regulation is not needed. This is hitting a gnat with a sledgehammer, or shooting a rabbit with a bazooka. The government (fed, state, or local) should always err on the side of refraining from new legislation. Of course, as we know, governments rarely do that. The cat is out the bag about the value of meteorites, and the government has tunnel vision - all the bureaucrats are hearing are things like : A thousand dollars per gram... Million dollar meteorite... And that is all the government cares about. It is up to the meteorite community to stand up and educate them about the truth of the matter - sure, there are meteorites that are worth a million dollars or more. But how many have ever sold for any price approaching that extreme? Take the recent offer of the NWA 5000 main mass for example. It's a staggering specimen of unequaled girth, aesthetics, and importance. It's a moon rock the size of a soccerball for crying out loud. Of course it's worth more than a million dollars and maybe 10 million or more. But, will it ever sell for that amount of money? Most likely not. I'm sure Adam and Greg wouldn't mind if it did, and I wish them the best of luck with it, but I'll get hit in the head with a new Martian hammer fall before someone will pay $10 million for a meteorite. Take the recent media story about the $380,000 lunar meteorite (DaG 1058) for sale at Heritage. The opening bid is $180,000, or almost $1000 per gram, for a 1815g stone. When is the last time someone paid a per-gram price like that for a stone of that size? The unwritten rule of the meteorite market is - the smaller the specimen, the bigger the per-gram price is. Conversely, the bigger the specimen, the smaller the per-gram price is. Has any professional dealer reading this ever sold a lunar larger than 1000g for $1000 per gram? I doubt it. --- (Trust me, this going back to government regulating meteorites.) Even if a whale of a collector came along and paid $20 million for a meteorite, that would probably be a singular event and would never be repeated in our lifetimes. Heck, if I win the powerball lottery, I'm gonna buy a slab of pallasite the size of a coffee table, but the government should not judge a commodity market based on sales that are anomalies. The government should stay out of the meteorite business. Meteorites are not just another collectible or commodity. Scientists are not clamoring to study gold bars or baseball cards. Meteorites are valuable far beyond their monetary worth. They can unlock for us the mysteries of the cosmos and creation. They are the very building blocks of every planet in the solar system, including Earth. Their importance to science is vast, and due to the circumstances surrounding meteorite hunting, science benefits from collaboration with private individuals. Let's face it, private meteorite hunters have a skillset that eludes most people and they have the FREEDOM to go out and recover stones at will without the need to file paperwork in triplicate beforehand. They can reach a new fall faster than anyone else, including the government. And they can recover stones with the best of the officially-sanctioned hunters working on scientific or institutional expeditions. Take one of the most experienced meteorite hunters on this List and send him/her on the next ANSMET expedition. I would wager my money that private hunter will score more finds than the
[meteorite-list] Battle Mountain Adventure Page
Dear List Members, I would like to share my eight days of hunting at Battle Mountain by way of a web page built by my very talented friend, Michael Johnson! Enjoy! http://www.rocksfromspace.org/BATTLE-MOUNTAIN.html Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com NaturesVault (eBay Facebook) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Battle Mountain Adventure Page
Awesome pics. Thanks for sharing those. That fresh stone at the bottom of the page is absolutely delicious. Congrats on the finds to all of the hunters. :) MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 9/21/12, Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net wrote: Dear List Members, I would like to share my eight days of hunting at Battle Mountain by way of a web page built by my very talented friend, Michael Johnson! Enjoy! http://www.rocksfromspace.org/BATTLE-MOUNTAIN.html Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com NaturesVault (eBay Facebook) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
My math sucks. I make no apologies for that. LOL. It was kindly pointed out to me off-list that I had my math wrong on the per-gram price of the lunar being auctioned at Heritage. I think the point is still valid to some extent though, when taking into account the size of the asking price. On 9/21/12, ** wrote: off list -- 1,815 grams for $180k is $100/g. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 12:36 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jim and List, I think your estimate of 50 professional meteorite hunters in the USA is very generous. I would wager it's even less. The majority of the professional hunters are members of this List. Granted, not all of them post regularly, but the major hunters are well-known. I can count them on two hands and have a couple fingers left over. I guess one could define professional meteorite hunter as someone who files taxes and lists their profession on the forms as such. How many people actually earn a sustainable living solely from hunting and finding meteorites? Maybe a dozen. Someone who goes out into the field for the purpose of finding meteorites, and finds some, and then sells a few is not necessarily a commercial or professional hunter. Just because somebody sells the occasional specimen on eBay does not mean they are making a profit, nor does it mean they are a commercial vendor in the commonly-accepted definition of the term. The bonafide pro meteorite hunters reading this can testify that making a profit is hit and miss at best. Most of the time these hunters go out into the field, spend a ton of money in expenses, and come home empty-handed. I know a few people who flew out to Sutter's Mill and spent weeks beating the bush and they didn't find a single fragment. If they find a small frag on the last day of hunting and sell it, does that make that person a professional hunter? Even if they lost thousands of dollars in expenses on the trip and don't sell another find for years or more? This new regulation is not needed. This is hitting a gnat with a sledgehammer, or shooting a rabbit with a bazooka. The government (fed, state, or local) should always err on the side of refraining from new legislation. Of course, as we know, governments rarely do that. The cat is out the bag about the value of meteorites, and the government has tunnel vision - all the bureaucrats are hearing are things like : A thousand dollars per gram... Million dollar meteorite... And that is all the government cares about. It is up to the meteorite community to stand up and educate them about the truth of the matter - sure, there are meteorites that are worth a million dollars or more. But how many have ever sold for any price approaching that extreme? Take the recent offer of the NWA 5000 main mass for example. It's a staggering specimen of unequaled girth, aesthetics, and importance. It's a moon rock the size of a soccerball for crying out loud. Of course it's worth more than a million dollars and maybe 10 million or more. But, will it ever sell for that amount of money? Most likely not. I'm sure Adam and Greg wouldn't mind if it did, and I wish them the best of luck with it, but I'll get hit in the head with a new Martian hammer fall before someone will pay $10 million for a meteorite. Take the recent media story about the $380,000 lunar meteorite (DaG 1058) for sale at Heritage. The opening bid is $180,000, or almost $1000 per gram, for a 1815g stone. When is the last time someone paid a per-gram price like that for a stone of that size? The unwritten rule of the meteorite market is - the smaller the specimen, the bigger the per-gram price is. Conversely, the bigger the specimen, the smaller the per-gram price is. Has any professional dealer reading this ever sold a lunar larger than 1000g for $1000 per gram? I doubt it. --- (Trust me, this going back to government regulating meteorites.) Even if a whale of a collector came along and paid $20 million for a meteorite, that would probably be a singular event and would never be repeated in our lifetimes. Heck, if I win the powerball lottery, I'm gonna buy a slab of pallasite the size of a coffee table, but the government should not judge a commodity market based on sales that are anomalies. The government should stay out of the meteorite business. Meteorites are not just another collectible or commodity. Scientists are not clamoring to study gold bars or baseball cards. Meteorites are valuable far beyond their monetary worth. They can unlock for us the mysteries of the cosmos and creation. They are the very building blocks of every planet in the solar system, including Earth. Their importance to science is vast, and due to the circumstances surrounding meteorite hunting, science benefits from collaboration with private individuals. Let's face it, private meteorite hunters have a
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
The opening bid is $180,000, or almost $1000 per gram, for a 1815g stone. $180,000 divided by 1815g = $99.17 a gram Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com Vice-President of IMCA www.IMCA.cc -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Sep 21, 2012 1:36 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules Hi Jim and List, I think your estimate of 50 professional meteorite hunters in the USA is very generous. I would wager it's even less. The majority of the professional hunters are members of this List. Granted, not all of them post regularly, but the major hunters are well-known. I can count them on two hands and have a couple fingers left over. I guess one could define professional meteorite hunter as someone who files taxes and lists their profession on the forms as such. How many people actually earn a sustainable living solely from hunting and finding meteorites? Maybe a dozen. Someone who goes out into the field for the purpose of finding meteorites, and finds some, and then sells a few is not necessarily a commercial or professional hunter. Just because somebody sells the occasional specimen on eBay does not mean they are making a profit, nor does it mean they are a commercial vendor in the commonly-accepted definition of the term. The bonafide pro meteorite hunters reading this can testify that making a profit is hit and miss at best. Most of the time these hunters go out into the field, spend a ton of money in expenses, and come home empty-handed. I know a few people who flew out to Sutter's Mill and spent weeks beating the bush and they didn't find a single fragment. If they find a small frag on the last day of hunting and sell it, does that make that person a professional hunter? Even if they lost thousands of dollars in expenses on the trip and don't sell another find for years or more? This new regulation is not needed. This is hitting a gnat with a sledgehammer, or shooting a rabbit with a bazooka. The government (fed, state, or local) should always err on the side of refraining from new legislation. Of course, as we know, governments rarely do that. The cat is out the bag about the value of meteorites, and the government has tunnel vision - all the bureaucrats are hearing are things like : A thousand dollars per gram... Million dollar meteorite... And that is all the government cares about. It is up to the meteorite community to stand up and educate them about the truth of the matter - sure, there are meteorites that are worth a million dollars or more. But how many have ever sold for any price approaching that extreme? Take the recent offer of the NWA 5000 main mass for example. It's a staggering specimen of unequaled girth, aesthetics, and importance. It's a moon rock the size of a soccerball for crying out loud. Of course it's worth more than a million dollars and maybe 10 million or more. But, will it ever sell for that amount of money? Most likely not. I'm sure Adam and Greg wouldn't mind if it did, and I wish them the best of luck with it, but I'll get hit in the head with a new Martian hammer fall before someone will pay $10 million for a meteorite. Take the recent media story about the $380,000 lunar meteorite (DaG 1058) for sale at Heritage. The opening bid is $180,000, or almost $1000 per gram, for a 1815g stone. When is the last time someone paid a per-gram price like that for a stone of that size? The unwritten rule of the meteorite market is - the smaller the specimen, the bigger the per-gram price is. Conversely, the bigger the specimen, the smaller the per-gram price is. Has any professional dealer reading this ever sold a lunar larger than 1000g for $1000 per gram? I doubt it. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
I've never make it in the field of chartered accountancy. LOL. My point about the government regulating meteorites still stands though. The bureaucrats need to put their noses back in their books, and leave the meteorite hunting alone. On 9/21/12, Anne Black impact...@aol.com wrote: The opening bid is $180,000, or almost $1000 per gram, for a 1815g stone. $180,000 divided by 1815g = $99.17 a gram Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com Vice-President of IMCA www.IMCA.cc -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Jim Wooddell jimwoodd...@gmail.com Cc: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Sep 21, 2012 1:36 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules Hi Jim and List, I think your estimate of 50 professional meteorite hunters in the USA is very generous. I would wager it's even less. The majority of the professional hunters are members of this List. Granted, not all of them post regularly, but the major hunters are well-known. I can count them on two hands and have a couple fingers left over. I guess one could define professional meteorite hunter as someone who files taxes and lists their profession on the forms as such. How many people actually earn a sustainable living solely from hunting and finding meteorites? Maybe a dozen. Someone who goes out into the field for the purpose of finding meteorites, and finds some, and then sells a few is not necessarily a commercial or professional hunter. Just because somebody sells the occasional specimen on eBay does not mean they are making a profit, nor does it mean they are a commercial vendor in the commonly-accepted definition of the term. The bonafide pro meteorite hunters reading this can testify that making a profit is hit and miss at best. Most of the time these hunters go out into the field, spend a ton of money in expenses, and come home empty-handed. I know a few people who flew out to Sutter's Mill and spent weeks beating the bush and they didn't find a single fragment. If they find a small frag on the last day of hunting and sell it, does that make that person a professional hunter? Even if they lost thousands of dollars in expenses on the trip and don't sell another find for years or more? This new regulation is not needed. This is hitting a gnat with a sledgehammer, or shooting a rabbit with a bazooka. The government (fed, state, or local) should always err on the side of refraining from new legislation. Of course, as we know, governments rarely do that. The cat is out the bag about the value of meteorites, and the government has tunnel vision - all the bureaucrats are hearing are things like : A thousand dollars per gram... Million dollar meteorite... And that is all the government cares about. It is up to the meteorite community to stand up and educate them about the truth of the matter - sure, there are meteorites that are worth a million dollars or more. But how many have ever sold for any price approaching that extreme? Take the recent offer of the NWA 5000 main mass for example. It's a staggering specimen of unequaled girth, aesthetics, and importance. It's a moon rock the size of a soccerball for crying out loud. Of course it's worth more than a million dollars and maybe 10 million or more. But, will it ever sell for that amount of money? Most likely not. I'm sure Adam and Greg wouldn't mind if it did, and I wish them the best of luck with it, but I'll get hit in the head with a new Martian hammer fall before someone will pay $10 million for a meteorite. Take the recent media story about the $380,000 lunar meteorite (DaG 1058) for sale at Heritage. The opening bid is $180,000, or almost $1000 per gram, for a 1815g stone. When is the last time someone paid a per-gram price like that for a stone of that size? The unwritten rule of the meteorite market is - the smaller the specimen, the bigger the per-gram price is. Conversely, the bigger the specimen, the smaller the per-gram price is. Has any professional dealer reading this ever sold a lunar larger than 1000g for $1000 per gram? I doubt it. -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Battle Mountain Adventure Page
There are indeed some fantastic pics in the mix. On the mountain top looking at the horizon. Gorgeous. And then there is indeed the rock. Congrats! On Sep 21, 2012, at 3:52 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks wrote: Awesome pics. Thanks for sharing those. That fresh stone at the bottom of the page is absolutely delicious. Congrats on the finds to all of the hunters. :) MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 9/21/12, Greg Hupé gmh...@centurylink.net wrote: Dear List Members, I would like to share my eight days of hunting at Battle Mountain by way of a web page built by my very talented friend, Michael Johnson! Enjoy! http://www.rocksfromspace.org/BATTLE-MOUNTAIN.html Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com NaturesVault (eBay Facebook) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MESSENGER's X-Ray Spectrometer Reveals Chemical Diversity on Mercury's Surface
http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/news_room/details.php?id=229 MESSENGER Mission News September 21, 2012 MESSENGER's X-Ray Spectrometer Reveals Chemical Diversity on Mercury's Surface New data from the X-Ray Spectrometer (XRS) on the MESSENGER spacecraft -- one of two instruments designed to measure the abundances of many key elements on Mercury -- show variations in the composition of surface material on Mercury that point to changes over time in the characteristics of volcanic eruptions on the solar system's innermost planet. In results to be published in the Journal of Geophysical Research, scientists report that Mercury's volcanic smooth plains units differ in composition from older surrounding terrains. The older terrain has higher ratios of magnesium to silicon, sulfur to silicon, and calcium to silicon, but lower ratios of aluminum to silicon, suggesting that the smooth plains material erupted from a magma source that was chemically different from the source of the material in the older regions, explains Shoshana Weider of the Carnegie Institution of Washington, the lead author on the paper. The new findings further illuminate the geological history of the planet, she says. We now know that these areas are compositionally distinct, indicating that different parts of Mercury's mantle melted at different times and temperatures, and through volcanic activity created the materials in the different terrains. Weider and her co-authors also report that Mercury's surface is dominated by minerals high in magnesium and enriched in sulfur. None of the other terrestrial planets have such high levels of sulfur. We are seeing about ten times the amount of sulfur than on Earth and Mars, Weider says. In terms of magnesium, we do have some materials on Earth that are high in magnesium. They tend to be ancient volcanic rocks that formed from very hot lavas. So this composition on Mercury tells us that eruptions of high-temperature lavas might have formed these high-magnesium materials. These findings stem from the team's analysis of 205 X-ray measurements of Mercury's surface, focusing on the large expanse of smooth volcanic plains at high northern latitudes and surrounding areas that are higher in crater density and therefore older than the northern plains. Weider says the measurements support what other MESSENGER scientists have observed from the mission's images. Now we can correlate their findings with our data, providing increased confidence in what we are discovering about the planet, she says. MESSENGER has been orbiting Mercury since March 2011, and has been revealing new information about the surface chemistry and geological history of the innermost planet in the solar system. The XRS measures elemental abundances on the surface of Mercury by detecting fluorescent X-ray emissions induced on the planet's surface by the incident solar X-ray flux. The instrument began orbital observations on March 23, 2011, and has observed X-ray fluorescence from the surface of the planet whenever a sunlit portion of Mercury has been within the XRS field of view. The X-ray spectrometer focuses on the estimation of elemental abundances on Mercury; i.e., the amount of magnesium, aluminum, sulfur, calcium, and iron in surface material, Weider says. From there we can start to work out what kinds of minerals are present, then the types of rocks that were formed, and then we can start to unravel the geological history. MESSENGER (MErcury Surface, Space ENvironment, GEochemistry, and Ranging) is a NASA-sponsored scientific investigation of the planet Mercury and the first space mission designed to orbit the planet closest to the Sun. The MESSENGER spacecraft launched on August 3, 2004, and after flybys of Earth, Venus, and Mercury will start a yearlong study of its target planet in March 2011. Dr. Sean C. Solomon, of the Carnegie Institution of Washington, leads the mission as Principal Investigator. The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory built and operates the MESSENGER spacecraft and manages this Discovery-class mission for NASA. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: September 17-21, 2012
MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES September 17-21, 2012 o North Polar Dunes (17 Septmeber 2012) http://themis.asu.edu/node/5983 o Channels (18 Septmeber 2012) http://themis.asu.edu/node/5984 o Landslide (19 Septmeber 2012) http://themis.asu.edu/node/5985 o Lava Channels (20 Septmeber 2012) http://themis.asu.edu/node/5986 o Storm Front (21 Septmeber 2012) http://themis.asu.edu/node/5987 All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules
Michael in So Cal Yes I did hear about the BLM hiring hundreds of meteorite experts :) But you dont know is all the hired meteorite experts are BML employee that took an on certificate course on how to be a world class meteorite hunter and now they know what and meteorite rocks looks like http://redriverautographs.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/rock-bull-dwayne-the-rock-johnson-775398_1178_1319.jpg :) Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBay Store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html? http://www.meteoritefalls.com/ - Original Message - From: Michael Mulgrew mikest...@gmail.com To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules Shawn, You mean you didn't hear about the hundreds of meteorite experts now on staff at the BLM that are going to verify everyone's finds and classify them so their fair market value can be assessed? Oh wait, me neither. Michael in so. Cal. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers What is confusing for me is that its seem the new BLM rules make it impossible for scientist and institutions to hunt and collect meteorites in the name for science, I wonder why? You would think it would be just as easy for scientist as it is with the casual collector. As speaking of a casual collectors, how could one be 100% its a meteorite? At the end of the day, its a stone until otherwise prove or disprove by someone with expertise. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBay Store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html? [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules Jeff Grossman jngrossman at gmail.com Thu Sep 20 19:06:11 EDT 2012 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules * Next message: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Update: Near Target Rock 'Matijevic' * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] All, For those of you who don't know, I contribute to this list as a private citizen, but I work at NASA headquarters, with duties that extend to oversight of curation and research programs. I will be reading all posts on the list pertaining to this issue. Jeff On 9/20/2012 6:37 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: I have been in communications with the BLM on and off all day. Art, thank for the HTML reminder as I have been trying to post all day and thought I had this set correctly! Here is the first response: Dear Mr. Wooddell: The application fee is dependent on the time it takes for BLM to process the project proposal in the application. This would be determined by the field office manager after the application is submitted and reviewed. These fees would be estimated for you prior to the processing of the application, and would include monitoring fees as well. The permit application/ permit is 2920-1 attached; fees would be on page 2 when a permit is issued. Some examples of what the fees would be can be found on the following web site and one example is attached. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/more/lands.html You mentioned a “nation-wide” permit in your email. BLM issues permits on a local level, and at maximum could be on a state-wide level, for lands that we administer in the Western States. Thank you,Lucia Kuizon --- I am not going to post their second response but they are now aware of some issues that may or may not change the wording. I feel it is imperative for NASA to reach out and support hunters on this issue in regards to the need to hunt fresh falls immediately, without delay of some permit process. While they are claiming media sparked this, most of us knew it was coming, just did not know when or how the wording would be. The current fee structure is twofold. 1. The application / permit. 2. The monitoring fee. Currently the fees will range from ~$100 to ~$1100 for commercial huntersthose seeking profit. This is based on their current cost recovery methods. I have both the application and the fee schedule as example based on the above response. If anyone wants them shoot me a private email. The big issue for hunters is that this will be based on a regional level where each district supervisor may or may not have special conditions, etc. Bottom line is that it will be required to have permits in different hunting areas and could greatly increase overhead for professional hunters. If hunters have to wait for a permit process during a meteor event that produces meteorites, I feel science looses. Regards, Jim * Previous message: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules * Next message: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Update: Near Target Rock 'Matijevic' * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list
[meteorite-list] selling 2004 Liberia meteorite
How much do they sell for? I have one still in redwood box. any ideas what to do with it? its a 2004 2 oz silver Liberia meteorite coin. more then willing to make a great deal. Thanks __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: FREE Battle Mountain Specimen - See Details
Hello, I am offering a FREE Battle Mountain Micro - somewhere between .100 to .300 gram, with or without crust for every $50.00 worth of purchases from my ebay store! So buy $50.00 worth of meteorites or any other items in my store and receive a FREE Battle Mountain Meteorite fragment for free. Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham Go Here: ALL SALE ITEMS HERE: http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BLM
I am not an expert in this area, but the way I understand it, the Code of Federal Regulations, which have the force of law, grant certain agencies regulatory authority in certain areas. The new BLM policy cites the sections of the CFR under which they are claiming authority to regulate the collection of meteorites on public lands. I am not a lawyer, and I could not attempt to assess whether BLM's applications of the CFR to meteorites would stand up in court. Nor do I wish to comment on whether I think the policy they implemented is wise. But I don't think they are exceeding the authority granted to them under US law to make such policies in general. So BLM is not writing laws... they regulating under the law. At least that's how I understand it. Jeff On 9/21/2012 1:39 PM, Michael Mulgrew wrote: As I understand it, this new memo from the BLM is not a law. Last I checked the BLM does not have the power to write laws. Michael in so. Cal. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Doug Achim dougac...@yahoo.com wrote: I live in Southern New Mexico. I ran about 100 sections, part of a larger ranch for a little over 5 years( 1999 to 2004) The part I ran was almost all classified as Wilderness Study Area (WSA). Look up the rules for WSA. The only time there was anyone in the area that was not there to visit me was hunting season. The hunters drove all over off road , left their camps a mess when they left, generally trashed the place. I begged the BLM to come bust somebody so I could spread the word and maybe get everyone to follow the rules. Never once did a BLM person show up during the 5 years, except some old volutiers and all they did was drive around and sometimes pick up some trash. In 2004 there was one BLM Agent ( The ones who carry guns) to cover all of southern New Mexico. Border Patrol was a different matter. There were more Border Patrol on the ranch daily than illegals passed through yearly. They mostly were hunting arrowheads, shooting rabbits, or picnicking. I collect arrowheads. I have all the laws concerning artifacts in the binder made up for my files. ARPA laws state in is not againt the law to pick up arrowheads on the surface. ( ARPA was passed in 1979, Jimmy Crater was the president and he was an arrowhead collector). He refused to sign ARPA stating that he did not some Boy Scout arrested for picking an arrowhead up. So it was changed to exclude arrowhead hunting, only arrowheads nothing else, and that is stated a couple places in the law. I had a friend in another BLM area got harassed by a BLM person, so I decide to check in person. There was not one person in the Las Cruces BLM office who could tell me anything except that you could not do it. It took me weeks to find the Agent, and he told me a lot of different things. The one that like was it was not against the law to pick up an arrowhead if you were working, hiking or whatever else on BLM land and found one. Where you were breaking the law was if you went to the BLM land with the intent of looking for arrowheads. I had the law with me so I pulled out a copy of ARPA and ask him to show me where that was stated as I had read it numerous times and never seen any thing written like that. He did not read anything just stated that I was not a lawyer and probably to stupid to understand legal writing. I studied Animal Science, Business, and Civil Engineering, so I am maybe not as smart as a Federal employee, but I know how to read. Someone needs to have a lawyer friend really read the new meteorite law, including all the fine print, because the BLM people read the title and go from there, or they are trying to run you off an area so they can go back and hunt themselves. Another story about arrowheads and ARPA. I found a copy of the Forest Service laws on artifacts. It stated that it was against the the to pick up chipped stone projectiles ( arrowheads ). I contacted the Forest Service and questioned it. They told me that ARPA was only a guideline for federal agencies to use to make their own regulations. I said so the Congress, Senate, and the President had studied, debated, and finally passed the law so some GS2 employee of the Forest Service could change to to what ever he wanted to. I have not seen the new laws but will track one down soon and have a judge friend of mine write an opionon and sent it to the list. Saludos Doug __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at
Re: [meteorite-list] BLM
Hello All, With such 'loose' and broad 'laws/suggestions-2-law', it is a fact that the next really large find from old fall or fresh fall that a private individual finds on 'public' land will end up in court! I believe the private sector has a much better grasp and respect for meteorites that are found on public land than ANY bureaucratic agency can even come close to understanding. The private sector contributes far greater personal resources (financial and personal time), at a MUCH CHEAPER rate, than any governmental body could even consider!! Something to chew on while smoking a stogy with one of the Good 'ol Boy DC types!!! Best Regards, Greg -Original Message- From: Jeff Grossman Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:55 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BLM I am not an expert in this area, but the way I understand it, the Code of Federal Regulations, which have the force of law, grant certain agencies regulatory authority in certain areas. The new BLM policy cites the sections of the CFR under which they are claiming authority to regulate the collection of meteorites on public lands. I am not a lawyer, and I could not attempt to assess whether BLM's applications of the CFR to meteorites would stand up in court. Nor do I wish to comment on whether I think the policy they implemented is wise. But I don't think they are exceeding the authority granted to them under US law to make such policies in general. So BLM is not writing laws... they regulating under the law. At least that's how I understand it. Jeff On 9/21/2012 1:39 PM, Michael Mulgrew wrote: As I understand it, this new memo from the BLM is not a law. Last I checked the BLM does not have the power to write laws. Michael in so. Cal. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Doug Achim dougac...@yahoo.com wrote: I live in Southern New Mexico. I ran about 100 sections, part of a larger ranch for a little over 5 years( 1999 to 2004) The part I ran was almost all classified as Wilderness Study Area (WSA). Look up the rules for WSA. The only time there was anyone in the area that was not there to visit me was hunting season. The hunters drove all over off road , left their camps a mess when they left, generally trashed the place. I begged the BLM to come bust somebody so I could spread the word and maybe get everyone to follow the rules. Never once did a BLM person show up during the 5 years, except some old volutiers and all they did was drive around and sometimes pick up some trash. In 2004 there was one BLM Agent ( The ones who carry guns) to cover all of southern New Mexico. Border Patrol was a different matter. There were more Border Patrol on the ranch daily than illegals passed through yearly. They mostly were hunting arrowheads, shooting rabbits, or picnicking. I collect arrowheads. I have all the laws concerning artifacts in the binder made up for my files. ARPA laws state in is not againt the law to pick up arrowheads on the surface. ( ARPA was passed in 1979, Jimmy Crater was the president and he was an arrowhead collector). He refused to sign ARPA stating that he did not some Boy Scout arrested for picking an arrowhead up. So it was changed to exclude arrowhead hunting, only arrowheads nothing else, and that is stated a couple places in the law. I had a friend in another BLM area got harassed by a BLM person, so I decide to check in person. There was not one person in the Las Cruces BLM office who could tell me anything except that you could not do it. It took me weeks to find the Agent, and he told me a lot of different things. The one that like was it was not against the law to pick up an arrowhead if you were working, hiking or whatever else on BLM land and found one. Where you were breaking the law was if you went to the BLM land with the intent of looking for arrowheads. I had the law with me so I pulled out a copy of ARPA and ask him to show me where that was stated as I had read it numerous times and never seen any thing written like that. He did not read anything just stated that I was not a lawyer and probably to stupid to understand legal writing. I studied Animal Science, Business, and Civil Engineering, so I am maybe not as smart as a Federal employee, but I know how to read. Someone needs to have a lawyer friend really read the new meteorite law, including all the fine print, because the BLM people read the title and go from there, or they are trying to run you off an area so they can go back and hunt themselves. Another story about arrowheads and ARPA. I found a copy of the Forest Service laws on artifacts. It stated that it was against the the to pick up chipped stone projectiles ( arrowheads ). I contacted the Forest Service and questioned it. They told me that ARPA was only a guideline for federal agencies to use to make their own regulations. I said so the Congress, Senate, and the President had studied, debated, and finally
[meteorite-list] Large UK fireball!
Hi all, I have just been exceedingly fortunate to view a large fragmenting fireball over the UK. Absolutely amazing sight! Looked so similar to Peekskill with lots of fragmentation. Am unfortunately at work all night so unable to further research it but already there are numerous reports and sightings. A video of the event has been found here: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df89jhMjLXY) Might be space junk? The fireball had a definite greenish tinge at the beginning. Going east to west. from the A627 in Chadderton, Oldham, Lancashire. Startpoint 25 degrees altitude, 90 degrees azimuth. Endpoint 20 degrees altitude, 290 degrees azimuth. visible for 40 seconds at 22:55hrs 21/9/12. Went from green to orange to yellow with lots of fragmentation. Am still gobsmacked that i saw it Hopefully it will have dropped some meteorites and hopefully not into the sea! Anyway back to work now :-( Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball!
Hi Martin, Given the east-to-west direction, space junk is extremely unlikely. (Very few manmade objects in such retrograde orbits.) Unfortunately, from your description it sounds like it most likely ended up going over Southport into the Irish Sea southeast of the Isle of Man. Your location is less than 60 km from the coast. --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin Goff Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 4:44 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball! Hi all, I have just been exceedingly fortunate to view a large fragmenting fireball over the UK. Absolutely amazing sight! Looked so similar to Peekskill with lots of fragmentation. Am unfortunately at work all night so unable to further research it but already there are numerous reports and sightings. A video of the event has been found here: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df89jhMjLXY) Might be space junk? The fireball had a definite greenish tinge at the beginning. Going east to west. from the A627 in Chadderton, Oldham, Lancashire. Startpoint 25 degrees altitude, 90 degrees azimuth. Endpoint 20 degrees altitude, 290 degrees azimuth. visible for 40 seconds at 22:55hrs 21/9/12. Went from green to orange to yellow with lots of fragmentation. Am still gobsmacked that i saw it Hopefully it will have dropped some meteorites and hopefully not into the sea! Anyway back to work now :-( Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball!
Mike, It was absolutely stunning! Am just amazed that i saw it as i was on patrol in my vehicle. Right place, right time for once! Unfortunately it appears that it will have dropped anything into the sea :-( Fingers crossed for otherwise though, you never know :-) Am a very happy chappy :-) Cheers Martin On 22/09/2012, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: wow, that would have been incredible to see in person! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Sep 21, 2012, at 4:54 PM, Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com wrote: Hi Martin, Given the east-to-west direction, space junk is extremely unlikely. (Very few manmade objects in such retrograde orbits.) Unfortunately, from your description it sounds like it most likely ended up going over Southport into the Irish Sea southeast of the Isle of Man. Your location is less than 60 km from the coast. --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin Goff Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 4:44 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball! Hi all, I have just been exceedingly fortunate to view a large fragmenting fireball over the UK. Absolutely amazing sight! Looked so similar to Peekskill with lots of fragmentation. Am unfortunately at work all night so unable to further research it but already there are numerous reports and sightings. A video of the event has been found here: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df89jhMjLXY) Might be space junk? The fireball had a definite greenish tinge at the beginning. Going east to west. from the A627 in Chadderton, Oldham, Lancashire. Startpoint 25 degrees altitude, 90 degrees azimuth. Endpoint 20 degrees altitude, 290 degrees azimuth. visible for 40 seconds at 22:55hrs 21/9/12. Went from green to orange to yellow with lots of fragmentation. Am still gobsmacked that i saw it Hopefully it will have dropped some meteorites and hopefully not into the sea! Anyway back to work now :-( Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Endeavor
Wow! That's one fantastic photo. Melody is obviously a very talented photographer. Seems to me that shot could definitely be used as the cover of a magazine. Thanks for sharing with us all. Pass along my congrats to Melody. Robert Woolard On Sep 20, 2012, at 6:28 PM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: http://www.flickr.com/photos/29494159@N00/8007594028/in/photostream My wife took this photo from U of A this morning as the Space Shuttle flew overhead! Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BLM
Jeff, Correct. Jim Jim Wooddell - Mobile Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: I am not an expert in this area, but the way I understand it, the Code of Federal Regulations, which have the force of law, grant certain agencies regulatory authority in certain areas. The new BLM policy cites the sections of the CFR under which they are claiming authority to regulate the collection of meteorites on public lands. I am not a lawyer, and I could not attempt to assess whether BLM's applications of the CFR to meteorites would stand up in court. Nor do I wish to comment on whether I think the policy they implemented is wise. But I don't think they are exceeding the authority granted to them under US law to make such policies in general. So BLM is not writing laws... they regulating under the law. At least that's how I understand it. Jeff On 9/21/2012 1:39 PM, Michael Mulgrew wrote: As I understand it, this new memo from the BLM is not a law. Last I checked the BLM does not have the power to write laws. Michael in so. Cal. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Doug Achim dougac...@yahoo.com wrote: I live in Southern New Mexico. I ran about 100 sections, part of a larger ranch for a little over 5 years( 1999 to 2004) The part I ran was almost all classified as Wilderness Study Area (WSA). Look up the rules for WSA. The only time there was anyone in the area that was not there to visit me was hunting season. The hunters drove all over off road , left their camps a mess when they left, generally trashed the place. I begged the BLM to come bust somebody so I could spread the word and maybe get everyone to follow the rules. Never once did a BLM person show up during the 5 years, except some old volutiers and all they did was drive around and sometimes pick up some trash. In 2004 there was one BLM Agent ( The ones who carry guns) to cover all of southern New Mexico. Border Patrol was a different matter. There were more Border Patrol on the ranch daily than illegals passed through yearly. They mostly were hunting arrowheads, shooting rabbits, or picnicking. I collect arrowheads. I have all the laws concerning artifacts in the binder made up for my files. ARPA laws state in is not againt the law to pick up arrowheads on the surface. ( ARPA was passed in 1979, Jimmy Crater was the president and he was an arrowhead collector). He refused to sign ARPA stating that he did not some Boy Scout arrested for picking an arrowhead up. So it was changed to exclude arrowhead hunting, only arrowheads nothing else, and that is stated a couple places in the law. I had a friend in another BLM area got harassed by a BLM person, so I decide to check in person. There was not one person in the Las Cruces BLM office who could tell me anything except that you could not do it. It took me weeks to find the Agent, and he told me a lot of different things. The one that like was it was not against the law to pick up an arrowhead if you were working, hiking or whatever else on BLM land and found one. Where you were breaking the law was if you went to the BLM land with the intent of looking for arrowheads. I had the law with me so I pulled out a copy of ARPA and ask him to show me where that was stated as I had read it numerous times and never seen any thing written like that. He did not read anything just stated that I was not a lawyer and probably to stupid to understand legal writing. I studied Animal Science, Business, and Civil Engineering, so I am maybe not as smart as a Federal employee, but I know how to read. Someone needs to have a lawyer friend really read the new meteorite law, including all the fine print, because the BLM people read the title and go from there, or they are trying to run you off an area so they can go back and hunt themselves. Another story about arrowheads and ARPA. I found a copy of the Forest Service laws on artifacts. It stated that it was against the the to pick up chipped stone projectiles ( arrowheads ). I contacted the Forest Service and questioned it. They told me that ARPA was only a guideline for federal agencies to use to make their own regulations. I said so the Congress, Senate, and the President had studied, debated, and finally passed the law so some GS2 employee of the Forest Service could change to to what ever he wanted to. I have not seen the new laws but will track one down soon and have a judge friend of mine write an opionon and sent it to the list. Saludos Doug __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] BLM
Hi, Jeff. Thanks for the explanation of the process. I guess I should have completed my thought, as what I was trying to get as was to not have people refer to this memo as a law since that is not what it is. Michael in so. Cal. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com wrote: I am not an expert in this area, but the way I understand it, the Code of Federal Regulations, which have the force of law, grant certain agencies regulatory authority in certain areas. The new BLM policy cites the sections of the CFR under which they are claiming authority to regulate the collection of meteorites on public lands. I am not a lawyer, and I could not attempt to assess whether BLM's applications of the CFR to meteorites would stand up in court. Nor do I wish to comment on whether I think the policy they implemented is wise. But I don't think they are exceeding the authority granted to them under US law to make such policies in general. So BLM is not writing laws... they regulating under the law. At least that's how I understand it. Jeff On 9/21/2012 1:39 PM, Michael Mulgrew wrote: As I understand it, this new memo from the BLM is not a law. Last I checked the BLM does not have the power to write laws. Michael in so. Cal. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Doug Achim dougac...@yahoo.com wrote: I live in Southern New Mexico. I ran about 100 sections, part of a larger ranch for a little over 5 years( 1999 to 2004) The part I ran was almost all classified as Wilderness Study Area (WSA). Look up the rules for WSA. The only time there was anyone in the area that was not there to visit me was hunting season. The hunters drove all over off road , left their camps a mess when they left, generally trashed the place. I begged the BLM to come bust somebody so I could spread the word and maybe get everyone to follow the rules. Never once did a BLM person show up during the 5 years, except some old volutiers and all they did was drive around and sometimes pick up some trash. In 2004 there was one BLM Agent ( The ones who carry guns) to cover all of southern New Mexico. Border Patrol was a different matter. There were more Border Patrol on the ranch daily than illegals passed through yearly. They mostly were hunting arrowheads, shooting rabbits, or picnicking. I collect arrowheads. I have all the laws concerning artifacts in the binder made up for my files. ARPA laws state in is not againt the law to pick up arrowheads on the surface. ( ARPA was passed in 1979, Jimmy Crater was the president and he was an arrowhead collector). He refused to sign ARPA stating that he did not some Boy Scout arrested for picking an arrowhead up. So it was changed to exclude arrowhead hunting, only arrowheads nothing else, and that is stated a couple places in the law. I had a friend in another BLM area got harassed by a BLM person, so I decide to check in person. There was not one person in the Las Cruces BLM office who could tell me anything except that you could not do it. It took me weeks to find the Agent, and he told me a lot of different things. The one that like was it was not against the law to pick up an arrowhead if you were working, hiking or whatever else on BLM land and found one. Where you were breaking the law was if you went to the BLM land with the intent of looking for arrowheads. I had the law with me so I pulled out a copy of ARPA and ask him to show me where that was stated as I had read it numerous times and never seen any thing written like that. He did not read anything just stated that I was not a lawyer and probably to stupid to understand legal writing. I studied Animal Science, Business, and Civil Engineering, so I am maybe not as smart as a Federal employee, but I know how to read. Someone needs to have a lawyer friend really read the new meteorite law, including all the fine print, because the BLM people read the title and go from there, or they are trying to run you off an area so they can go back and hunt themselves. Another story about arrowheads and ARPA. I found a copy of the Forest Service laws on artifacts. It stated that it was against the the to pick up chipped stone projectiles ( arrowheads ). I contacted the Forest Service and questioned it. They told me that ARPA was only a guideline for federal agencies to use to make their own regulations. I said so the Congress, Senate, and the President had studied, debated, and finally passed the law so some GS2 employee of the Forest Service could change to to what ever he wanted to. I have not seen the new laws but will track one down soon and have a judge friend of mine write an opionon and sent it to the list. Saludos Doug __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
[meteorite-list] US/Canada Fireball and Massive UK/Holland Bolide 21SEP2012
List, Maps and details to be created/updated as possible. US/Canada Fireball Over 30 reports http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.jp/2012/09/ne-us-canada-bright-meteor-21sep2012.html Massive UK/Holland Bolide 21SEP2012 over 500 reports http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.jp/2012/09/breaking-uk-news-uk-holland-bolide.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dawn Sees Hydrated Minerals On Giant Asteroid
Dawn Sees Hydrated Minerals On Giant Asteroid ScienceDaily, Sept. 20, 2012, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120920202045.htm Dawn Sees Hydrated Minerals on Giant Asteroid, news release, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NSAS, http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2012-297 http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/dawn/news/dawn20120920.html The papers are: Prettyman, T. H., et al., 2012, Elemental Mapping by Dawn Reveals Exogenic H in Vesta's Regolith. Science. Published Online September 20, 2012 DOI: 10.1126/science.1225354 http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2012/09/19/science.1225354 Denevi, B. W., et al., 2012, Pitted Terrain on Vesta and Implications for the Presence of Volatiles. Science. Published Online September 20, 2012 DOI: 10.1126/science.1225374 http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2012/09/19/science.1225374 Best wishes, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Endeavour fly over
Sacramento was one of the lucky cities to get a Shuttle Endeavour fly over today. I took this video from the roof of my office building. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0aNmteykjQlist=UUGBRmlg0LLLwXfw_ccSoVWwindex=1feature=plcp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball!
Rob, Martin, That video seems very familiar...it may be a recycled video? I am not 100% certain. Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Sat, 9/22/12, Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com wrote: From: Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball! To: Martin Goff msgmeteori...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, September 22, 2012, 8:54 AM Hi Martin, Given the east-to-west direction, space junk is extremely unlikely. (Very few manmade objects in such retrograde orbits.) Unfortunately, from your description it sounds like it most likely ended up going over Southport into the Irish Sea southeast of the Isle of Man. Your location is less than 60 km from the coast. --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin Goff Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 4:44 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Large UK fireball! Hi all, I have just been exceedingly fortunate to view a large fragmenting fireball over the UK. Absolutely amazing sight! Looked so similar to Peekskill with lots of fragmentation. Am unfortunately at work all night so unable to further research it but already there are numerous reports and sightings. A video of the event has been found here: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df89jhMjLXY) Might be space junk? The fireball had a definite greenish tinge at the beginning. Going east to west. from the A627 in Chadderton, Oldham, Lancashire. Startpoint 25 degrees altitude, 90 degrees azimuth. Endpoint 20 degrees altitude, 290 degrees azimuth. visible for 40 seconds at 22:55hrs 21/9/12. Went from green to orange to yellow with lots of fragmentation. Am still gobsmacked that i saw it Hopefully it will have dropped some meteorites and hopefully not into the sea! Anyway back to work now :-( Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 111, Issue 29
Great pictures Greg and Mike. Good luck to all out there hunting! Jim On 9/21/12, Greg Hup? gmh...@centurylink.net wrote: Dear List Members, I would like to share my eight days of hunting at Battle Mountain by way of a web page built by my very talented friend, Michael Johnson! Enjoy! http://www.rocksfromspace.org/BATTLE-MOUNTAIN.html Best Regards, Greg __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
