[meteorite-list] Scientists Use Lasers to Simulate Shock Effects of Meteorite Impact on Silica

[Ron Baalke via Meteorite-list]

https://www6.slac.stanford.edu/news/2015-09-14-scientists-use-lasers-simulate-shock-effects-meteorite-impact-silica.aspx

Scientists Use Lasers to Simulate Shock Effects of Meteorite Impact on Silica

SLAC Study Reveals its Unexpectedly Fast Transformation into a Compressed Form

Stanford University
September 14, 2015

Scientists used high-power laser beams at the Department of Energy’s SLAC 
National Accelerator Laboratory to simulate the shock effects of a meteorite 
impact in silica, one of the most abundant materials in the Earth's crust. 
They observed, for the first time, its shockingly fast transformation 
into the mineral stishovite - a rare, extremely hard and dense form of 
silica.

You can scoop up bits of stishovite at the scene of meteorite impacts, 
such as a 50,000-year-old meteor crater in Arizona that measures about 
3/4-mile across and about 570 feet deep. A similar form also exists naturally 
at the extreme pressures of the Earth's mantle, hundreds of miles below 
ground.

The Speed of Stishovite

In the experiment at SLAC, researchers used lasers to create a shock wave 
in samples of silica glass. The heat and compression of this shock wave 
caused tiny crystals, or "grains," of stishovite to grow within just a 
few nanoseconds, or billionths of a second. This speed defies predictions 
that the changes take tens or even hundreds of times longer.

"The beauty here is that the quality of the data enabled us to make a 
measurement that gives us entirely new insight into the mechanism for 
this transformation," said Arianna Gleason, who led the experiment at 
SLAC's Linac Coherent Light Source (LCLS) X-ray laser, a DOE Office of 
Science User Facility. The work was published in the Sept. 4 issue of 
Nature Communications.

"Figuring out how atoms rearrange themselves in this material is important, 
and to our great surprise, what we expected to be a slower process is 
really rapid," said Gleason, who was a postdoctoral researcher at SLAC 
and Stanford University at the time of the 2012 experiment and is now 
a postdoctoral fellow at Los Alamos National Laboratory. 'That was not 
known before. LCLS gave us access to this ultrashort timescale combined 
with the capability to generate a shockwave, which is unique."

New Insight in Planetary, Materials Science

The improved understanding gives researchers new insight about the basic 
properties of silica and other materials, and could ultimately lead to 
improved models of planetary formation and composition and new approaches 
for designing future materials with improved functionality, such as strength.

In the LCLS experiment, researchers aimed two optical laser pulses at 
the same point on the silica samples. They used brilliant, ultrashort 
X-ray pulses produced by LCLS to explore the resulting shock effects on 
a timescale of femtoseconds and from an atom's-eye view. They varied the 
arrival time of the X-ray pulses to pinpoint the speed of the material's 
transformation.

Researchers have since conducted follow-up experiments that explore other 
shock properties in this and other materials, including metals and 
semiconductors 
heavily used in industry.

"We're really just scratching the surface of being able to visualize 
transformations 
during shock compression in real time via snapshots with LCLS, and in 
understanding the states of materials in the interior of  our own planet 
and other planets,' said Gleason.

Other scientists participating in the study were from Los Alamos National 
Laboratory, LCLS, the Stanford Institute for Materials and Energy Sciences 
(SIMES) at SLAC, Stanford, Washington State University, Lawrence Livermore 
National Laboratory, the Carnegie Institution of Washington and the Center 
for High Pressure Science and Technology Advanced Research in Shanghai. 
The work was supported by the DOE Office of Science, National Science 
Foundation, Mineralogical Society of America and the Laboratory Directed 
Research and Development program at Los Alamos Laboratory.

Citation: A.E. Gleason, et al., Nature Communications, 4 September 2015 
(10.1038/ncomms9191)

For questions or comments, contact the SLAC Office of Communications at 
communicati...@slac.stanford.edu.

SLAC is a multi-program laboratory exploring frontier questions in photon 
science, astrophysics, particle physics and accelerator research. Located 
in Menlo Park, Calif., SLAC is operated by Stanford University for the 
U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Science.

SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory is supported by the Office of Science 
of the U.S. Department of Energy. The Office of Science is the single 
largest supporter of basic research in the physical sciences in the United 
States, and is working to address some of the most pressing challenges 
of our time. For more information, please visit science.energy.gov.

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Re: [meteorite-list] Time for change - here in US (was, Re: something about Las Vegas)

[Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list]

All of the taxpayer's money spent on the shrimp on a treadmill study would 
have gone a long way to study meteorites.


A link to my favorite Mantis shrimp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj-yAHTfVeE

I guess we know what bureaucrats think is more important.  An impact from 
space or the jogging habits of a lowly decapod crustacean.


Personally, I have given up all hope that hard-working taxpayers money will 
ever be spent wisely.


Adam




- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Verish via Meteorite-list" 


To: "Sonny Clary" 
Cc: "Meteoritecentral List" 
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 7:07 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Time for change - here in US (was,Re: something 
about Las Vegas)



Hi Sonny,

Apparently, you haven't read any of my articles where I clearly pointed to 
the top of the pyramid where the funding for meteorite studies are 
rationed-out, and
why there is a lack of funding for classifying US meteorites. I commiserate 
with the classifiers on this lack of funding and in no way am I laying any 
guilt on them.
I well understand that no US researcher can come forward as a benefactor in 
this current situation. My offer of US chondrite type-specimen was actually
directed to researchers outside of the USA. Again, that was stated in my 
article, as well.


Your defense of US geochemists is commendable, but unnecessary in this 
instance. I don't need to ask their position on this funding matter. It's 
well documented.
But maybe we should also ask the opinion of other researchers, maybe even 
outside of the MetSoc. Maybe even outside of the USA. Ask them what they 
think
about us not recording or documenting (let alone not classifying) newly 
found meteorites. Researchers like those that are studying the rate of 
influx and
number of falls per unit area. And other researchers such as those that are 
interested in knowing exactly how many small meteoroids are flying around in 
the

vicinity of our astronauts. We should ask all of them.
We should ask all the stakeholders. Even US taxpayers, who are stakeholders 
as well, because I'm sure they are assuming their tax dollars are being 
spent

wisely on protecting them from meteoroids hitting them.
I'm sure all of these various people are counting on us to do our job in 
this regard, and not to literally ignore found meteorites.


I've been waiting for one of the other old-timers to make this realization 
and make a comment, but I'm getting more impatient as I get older. So, I'll 
say it now.
It wasn't that long ago that we, as US meteorite-hunters, were thanking our 
lucky stars that we didn't have to deal with all of the stifling regulations 
that
our comrades in Australia and Canada were having to put-up with. But they 
made some crucial adjustments in their culture and now those countries are

experiencing a golden age in meteorite-recovery.

It's amazing how fast things have turned 180 degrees.

Bob V.

P.S. - please allow me to update this table of recovery data:

Stewart Valley - over 700 recorded finds, only 22 in the MBD, 6 different 
classifications, only the H6 and L6 are paired. Where's the beef?
Tungston Mountain - over 700 recorded finds, only 22 in the MBD, 10 are 
unpaired, the eight H4s are probably paired. Still no justification for a 
complaint.
Lucerne Valley - over120 meteorites, CK are the majority of the 66 
classifieds, but there were 5 unique classes in the first 7 finds, 9 in 12, 
10 in 15.
Coyote Dry lake - over 350 recorded finds, only 82 are in MBD, so far 56 of 
these are classified. >8 unique classes. No one has done a pairing study.
Stump Springs 130 field-numbered finds, only 84 provisional numbers, only 1 
classified find. No strewn-field data is published.
Yelland Dry lake Hundreds of fragments, and only one classification. Worlds 
only one meteorite dry lake! Was there any strewn-field data recorded?
There still is no estimate of how many original masses formed all of these 
clusters of fragments, or their locations. This is one big fuster cluck.



On Tue, 9/15/15, wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:


Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew 
afind.

To: raremeteori...@centurylink.net, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2015, 1:53 PM

Hi Bob, Adam and List,

>This is a concern that others have shared with me, and has prompted me to
>write on this subject in three separate articles, which essentially said,
>"Hey, here are some US chondrites that need to be classified."
>Still haven't received any offers

deleted


Stewart Valley TBR plus finds finds,
Tungston Mountain TBR meteorites/ fragments
Lucerne Valley 124 meteorites
Coyote Dry lake 341 meteorites
Stump Springs 130 plus meteorites
Yelland Dry lake Hundreds of fragments

more deletions

[meteorite-list] Looking to buy Cape York

[Rob Wesel via Meteorite-list]

If anyone out there has a decent sized partslice please send me the details.

Thanks,

Rob Wesel 
--

Nakhla Dog Meteorites
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites
www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




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Re: [meteorite-list] Time for change - here in US (was, Re: something about Las Vegas)

[wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list]

Hi Bob,

You are right, I did not read the articles. I was just responding to this 
thread on the List.  But as it stands, the OC's recovered from the Southwest 
Deserts don't appear to be something that most Universities are currently 
looking to study or add to their collection . If they were, we would have 
scientists willing to classify them for free as they did years ago. Even with 
funding the Universities may not be interested due to lesser scientific value. 
I do not think it is necessary to classify every OC found on a dry lake bed or 
desert strewn field. You are entitled to your opinion and I just feel 
differently about the subject. 

I don't think we would ever have the true picture anyways due to erosion, 
meteorites being buried upon impact on Earth, movement of meteorites by Native 
Americans, other people recovering pieces from the same area  over the years. 
You and I both know that meteorites will appear different due to weathering 
depending on where they are found in the strewn field, hill top, river bed, 
etc.  Now throw in the dynamics of the Lake bed freeze and thaw cycles, 
movement of meteorites over the hundreds of years. What about different 
scientists classifying the same OC at different labs and having slightly 
different results. I was told that you can not have L,LL, H and L/H meteorites 
from the same fall. I have proof from many hours of field work from one 
location that it is spread over many miles on stable surface. It proves that 
you can have  L, LL, H and transitional H/ L from one fall. The only way to 
confirm this is thru terrestrial dating which would never happen due to 
funding.  I would bet that is what you are finding on lake beds. 


>Stump Springs  130 field-numbered finds, only 84 provisional numbers,only 1 
>classified find.  No strewn-field data is published. 

Wow Bob,
Really! What is the rush? Is there a time frame on strewn field recovery work? 
Some people like to hunt and discover the bigger picture before putting it all 
out there. At what point do you stop and give up when you are still making 
finds? All of my data with field map, in situ pictures, and descriptions of 
finds will be released at a later date.This will only show data from one fall. 
Every fall is different. I have yet to see any strewn field maps from any of 
your published locations. 

>Yelland Dry lake Hundreds of >fragments, and only one classification.  Worlds 
>only one meteoritedry lake!  Was there any strewn-field data recorded?There 
>still is >no estimateof how many >original masses formed all of these clusters 
>of fragments, or theirlocations.   This is one big fuster cluck. 

There are two classifications from Yelland . Are you suggesting that I should 
have had every fragment classified from this location? Can you imagine the 
reaction I would have gotten if I presented this? " Hi Alan, here are all the 
fragments (just over one thousand). I just know these stones are different. Can 
you give me one thousand provisional numbers?"   I have field data from Yelland 
before any piece was removed. What would this data prove? Probably  NOTHING. 
Only that a large OC was recovered from a dry lake bed and fragmented into 
thousands of pieces. The field data would give me a direction in which to look 
for other pieces but again the Scientists do not seem to be interested in this. 
From the last count over 200 lbs have been recovered and with the exception of 
one stone all of the pieces look identical to each other. Again as I said there 
are two classifications from Yelland thus far and the majority of fragments 
look identical. Could these two classifications be from different segments of a 
large main mass? Feel free to stop by and sort through all of the Yelland 
fragments. If you find anything different I will buy you dinner. 

>please allow me to update this table of recoverydata:Stewart Valley - over 700 
>recorded finds, only 22 in the MBD, 6different classifications, only the H6 
>and L6 >are paired.  Where's thebeef?

Are you thinking that there were 6 different falls on Stewart Valley dry lake 
bed? That is hard to imagine that many different falls in one area. Anything is 
possible I guess.

Sonny
 


-Original Message-
From: Robert Verish 
To: Sonny Clary 
Cc: Meteoritecentral List 
Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 7:10 pm
Subject: Time for change - here in US  (was, Re: something about Las Vegas)


Hi Sonny, Apparently, you haven't read any of my articles where I 
clearlypointed to the top of the pyramid where the funding for meteorite 
studies arerationed-out, and why there is a lack of funding for classifying 
USmeteorites. I commiserate with the classifiers on this lack of funding and in 
noway am I laying any guilt on them.  I well understand that no US 
researchercan come forward as a benefactor in this current situation.  My offer 
of USchondrite type-specimen was 

[meteorite-list] Cassini Finds Global Ocean in Saturn's Moon Enceladus

[Ron Baalke via Meteorite-list]

September 15, 2015

RELEASE 15-188

Cassini Finds Global Ocean in Saturn's Moon Enceladus

A global ocean lies beneath the icy crust of Saturn's geologically active 
moon Enceladus, according to new research using data from NASA's Cassini 
mission.

Researchers found the magnitude of the moon's very slight wobble, as it 
orbits Saturn, can only be accounted for if its outer ice shell is not frozen 
solid to its interior, meaning a global ocean must be present.

The finding implies the fine spray of water vapor, icy particles and simple 
organic molecules Cassini has observed coming from fractures near the moon's 
south pole is being fed by this vast liquid water reservoir. The research is 
presented in a paper published online this week in the journal Icarus.

Previous analysis of Cassini data suggested the presence of a lens-shaped 
body of water, or sea, underlying the moon's south polar region. However, 
gravity data collected during the spacecraft's several close passes over the 
south polar region lent support to the possibility the sea might be global. 
The new results -- derived using an independent line of evidence based on 
Cassini's images -- confirm this to be the case.

"This was a hard problem that required years of observations, and 
calculations involving a diverse collection of disciplines, but we are 
confident we finally got it right," said Peter Thomas, a Cassini imaging team 
member at Cornell University, Ithaca, New York, and lead author of the paper.

Cassini scientists analyzed more than seven years' worth of images of 
Enceladus taken by the spacecraft, which has been orbiting Saturn since 
mid-2004. They carefully mapped the positions of features on Enceladus -- 
mostly craters -- across hundreds of images, in order to measure changes in 
the moon's rotation with extreme precision.

As a result, they found Enceladus has a tiny, but measurable wobble as it 
orbits Saturn. Because the icy moon is not perfectly spherical -- and because 
it goes slightly faster and slower during different portions of its orbit 
around Saturn -- the giant planet subtly rocks Enceladus back and forth as it 
rotates.

The team plugged their measurement of the wobble, called a libration, into 
different models for how Enceladus might be arranged on the inside, including 
ones in which the moon was frozen from surface to core.

"If the surface and core were rigidly connected, the core would provide so 
much dead weight the wobble would be far smaller than we observe it to be," 
said Matthew Tiscareno, a Cassini participating scientist at the SETI 
Institute, Mountain View, California, and a co-author of the paper. "This 
proves that there must be a global layer of liquid separating the surface 
from the core," he said.

The mechanisms that might have prevented Enceladus' ocean from freezing 
remain a mystery. Thomas and his colleagues suggest a few ideas for future 
study that might help resolve the question, including the surprising 
possibility that tidal forces due to Saturn's gravity could be generating 
much more heat within Enceladus than previously thought.

"This is a major step beyond what we understood about this moon before, and 
it demonstrates the kind of deep-dive discoveries we can make with long-lived 
orbiter missions to other planets," said co-author Carolyn Porco, Cassini 
imaging team lead at Space Science Institute (SSI), Boulder, Colorado, and 
visiting scholar at the University of California, Berkeley. "Cassini has been 
exemplary in this regard."

The unfolding story of Enceladus has been one of the great triumphs of 
Cassini's long mission at Saturn. Scientists first detected signs of the 
moon's icy plume in early 2005, and followed up with a series of discoveries 
about the material gushing from warm fractures near its south pole. They 
announced strong evidence for a regional sea in 2014, and more recently, in 
2015, they shared results that suggest hydrothermal activity is taking place 
on the ocean floor.

Cassini is scheduled to make a close flyby of Enceladus on Oct. 28, in the 
mission's deepest-ever dive through the moon's active plume of icy material. 
The spacecraft will pass a mere 30 miles (49 kilometers) above the moon's 
surface.

The Cassini-Huygens mission is a cooperative project of NASA, ESA (European 
Space Agency) and the Italian Space Agency. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory 
(JPL) in Pasadena, California, manages the mission for the agency's Science 
Mission Directorate in Washington. JPL is a division of the California 
Institute of Technology in Pasadena, California. The Cassini imaging 
operations center is based at Space Science Institute.

For more information about Cassini, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/cassini

and

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov

-end-


Dwayne Brown / Laurie Cantillo
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1726 / 202-358-1077
dwayne.c.br...@nasa.gov / laura.l.canti...@nasa.gov

Preston Dyches
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

[meteorite-list] Cassini Finds Global Ocean in Saturn's Moon Enceladus

[Ron Baalke via Meteorite-list]

September 15, 2015

RELEASE 15-188

Cassini Finds Global Ocean in Saturn's Moon Enceladus

A global ocean lies beneath the icy crust of Saturn's geologically active 
moon Enceladus, according to new research using data from NASA's Cassini 
mission.

Researchers found the magnitude of the moon's very slight wobble, as it 
orbits Saturn, can only be accounted for if its outer ice shell is not frozen 
solid to its interior, meaning a global ocean must be present.

The finding implies the fine spray of water vapor, icy particles and simple 
organic molecules Cassini has observed coming from fractures near the moon's 
south pole is being fed by this vast liquid water reservoir. The research is 
presented in a paper published online this week in the journal Icarus.

Previous analysis of Cassini data suggested the presence of a lens-shaped 
body of water, or sea, underlying the moon's south polar region. However, 
gravity data collected during the spacecraft's several close passes over the 
south polar region lent support to the possibility the sea might be global. 
The new results -- derived using an independent line of evidence based on 
Cassini's images -- confirm this to be the case.

"This was a hard problem that required years of observations, and 
calculations involving a diverse collection of disciplines, but we are 
confident we finally got it right," said Peter Thomas, a Cassini imaging team 
member at Cornell University, Ithaca, New York, and lead author of the paper.

Cassini scientists analyzed more than seven years' worth of images of 
Enceladus taken by the spacecraft, which has been orbiting Saturn since 
mid-2004. They carefully mapped the positions of features on Enceladus -- 
mostly craters -- across hundreds of images, in order to measure changes in 
the moon's rotation with extreme precision.

As a result, they found Enceladus has a tiny, but measurable wobble as it 
orbits Saturn. Because the icy moon is not perfectly spherical -- and because 
it goes slightly faster and slower during different portions of its orbit 
around Saturn -- the giant planet subtly rocks Enceladus back and forth as it 
rotates.

The team plugged their measurement of the wobble, called a libration, into 
different models for how Enceladus might be arranged on the inside, including 
ones in which the moon was frozen from surface to core.

"If the surface and core were rigidly connected, the core would provide so 
much dead weight the wobble would be far smaller than we observe it to be," 
said Matthew Tiscareno, a Cassini participating scientist at the SETI 
Institute, Mountain View, California, and a co-author of the paper. "This 
proves that there must be a global layer of liquid separating the surface 
from the core," he said.

The mechanisms that might have prevented Enceladus' ocean from freezing 
remain a mystery. Thomas and his colleagues suggest a few ideas for future 
study that might help resolve the question, including the surprising 
possibility that tidal forces due to Saturn's gravity could be generating 
much more heat within Enceladus than previously thought.

"This is a major step beyond what we understood about this moon before, and 
it demonstrates the kind of deep-dive discoveries we can make with long-lived 
orbiter missions to other planets," said co-author Carolyn Porco, Cassini 
imaging team lead at Space Science Institute (SSI), Boulder, Colorado, and 
visiting scholar at the University of California, Berkeley. "Cassini has been 
exemplary in this regard."

The unfolding story of Enceladus has been one of the great triumphs of 
Cassini's long mission at Saturn. Scientists first detected signs of the 
moon's icy plume in early 2005, and followed up with a series of discoveries 
about the material gushing from warm fractures near its south pole. They 
announced strong evidence for a regional sea in 2014, and more recently, in 
2015, they shared results that suggest hydrothermal activity is taking place 
on the ocean floor.

Cassini is scheduled to make a close flyby of Enceladus on Oct. 28, in the 
mission's deepest-ever dive through the moon's active plume of icy material. 
The spacecraft will pass a mere 30 miles (49 kilometers) above the moon's 
surface.

The Cassini-Huygens mission is a cooperative project of NASA, ESA (European 
Space Agency) and the Italian Space Agency. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory 
(JPL) in Pasadena, California, manages the mission for the agency's Science 
Mission Directorate in Washington. JPL is a division of the California 
Institute of Technology in Pasadena, California. The Cassini imaging 
operations center is based at Space Science Institute.

For more information about Cassini, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/cassini

and

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov

-end-


Dwayne Brown / Laurie Cantillo
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1726 / 202-358-1077
dwayne.c.br...@nasa.gov / laura.l.canti...@nasa.gov

Preston Dyches
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

[meteorite-list] 1.2 Billion-Year-Old 'Meteorite Mineral' Found in Scotland (Reidite)

[Ron Baalke via Meteorite-list]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34138266

1.2 billion-year-old 'meteorite mineral' found in Scotland
BBC News
September 3,  2015

The earliest known occurrence of one of Earth's rarest minerals has been 
found in Scotland, scientists have said.

The 1.2 billion-year-old reidite was found in rock samples taken from 
the Stac Fada Member, a large geological area in the north west Highlands.

Reidite is only known to form in nature during meteorite impact events.

The discovery reinforces a theory that Stac Fada's geology was formed 
by material thrown out by a meteorite impact 1.2 billion years ago

A team of Curtin University geoscientists working with the University 
of St Andrews made the find.

They said the reidite found in a stone called zircon was more than double 
the age of the previous oldest known occurrence at 450 million years.

It was found in samples taken from a layer of rock previously thought 
to have been created by volcanic activity but more recently linked to 
an ancient meteorite impact.

The geology extends to about 31 miles (50km) from Stoer, north of Lochinver, 
to Poolewe.

A crater from the meteorite impact has still to be found, though it may 
already have disappeared because of other geological processes.

Pete Harrison, of the North West Highlands Geopark, described the new 
discovery as a "final piece" of evidence it was a meteorite.

He said: "This looks like proof that the Stac Fada Member was caused by 
a meteorite impact 1.2 billion years ago.

"It is amazing that this mineral has survived so long as it was formed 
at high pressure during the impact."

The North West Highlands Geopark was established in 2004 and has just 
had confirmation that it will have its Unesco-recognised geopark designation 
revalidated for another four years.

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[meteorite-list] Time for change - here in US (was, Re: something about Las Vegas)

[Robert Verish via Meteorite-list]

Hi Sonny, 

Apparently, you haven't read any of my articles where I clearly pointed to the 
top of the pyramid where the funding for meteorite studies are rationed-out, 
and 
why there is a lack of funding for classifying US meteorites. I commiserate 
with the classifiers on this lack of funding and in no way am I laying any 
guilt on them.  
I well understand that no US researcher can come forward as a benefactor in 
this current situation.  My offer of US chondrite type-specimen was actually
directed to researchers outside of the USA.  Again, that was stated in my 
article, as well.

Your defense of US geochemists is commendable, but unnecessary in this 
instance. I don't need to ask their position on this funding matter.  It's well 
documented. 
But maybe we should also ask the opinion of other researchers, maybe even 
outside of the MetSoc.  Maybe even outside of the USA.  Ask them what they 
think 
about us not recording or documenting (let alone not classifying) newly found 
meteorites.  Researchers like those that are studying the rate of influx and 
number of falls per unit area.  And other researchers such as those that are 
interested in knowing exactly how many small meteoroids are flying around in 
the 
vicinity of our astronauts. We should ask all of them. 
We should ask all the stakeholders.  Even US taxpayers, who are stakeholders as 
well, because I'm sure they are assuming their tax dollars are being spent 
wisely on protecting them from meteoroids hitting them.   
I'm sure all of these various people are counting on us to do our job in this 
regard, and not to literally ignore found meteorites. 

I've been waiting for one of the other old-timers to make this realization and 
make a comment, but I'm getting more impatient as I get older. So, I'll say it 
now.  
It wasn't that long ago that we, as US meteorite-hunters, were thanking our 
lucky stars that we didn't have to deal with all of the stifling regulations 
that 
our comrades in Australia and Canada were having to put-up with.  But they made 
some crucial adjustments in their culture and now those countries are 
experiencing a golden age in meteorite-recovery. 

It's amazing how fast things have turned 180 degrees.  

Bob V. 

P.S. - please allow me to update this table of recovery data:

Stewart Valley - over 700 recorded finds, only 22 in the MBD, 6 different 
classifications, only the H6 and L6 are paired.  Where's the beef?   
Tungston Mountain - over 700 recorded finds, only 22 in the MBD, 10 are 
unpaired, the eight H4s are probably paired.  Still no justification for a 
complaint. 
Lucerne Valley - over120 meteorites, CK are the majority of the 66 classifieds, 
but there were 5 unique classes in the first 7 finds, 9 in 12, 10 in 15. 
Coyote Dry lake - over 350 recorded finds, only 82 are in MBD, so far 56 of 
these are classified. >8 unique classes.  No one has done a pairing study.
Stump Springs  130 field-numbered finds, only 84 provisional numbers, only 1 
classified find.  No strewn-field data is published.
Yelland Dry lake  Hundreds of fragments, and only one classification.  Worlds 
only one meteorite dry lake!  Was there any strewn-field data recorded?
There still is no estimate of how many original masses formed all of these 
clusters of fragments, or their locations.   This is one big fuster cluck.  


On Tue, 9/15/15, wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew afind.
 To: raremeteori...@centurylink.net, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2015, 1:53 PM
 
 Hi Bob, Adam and List,
 
 >This is a concern that others have shared with me, and has prompted me to
 >write on this subject in three separate articles, which essentially said,
 >"Hey, here are some US chondrites that need to be classified." 
 >Still haven't received any offers
 
deleted

 
 Stewart Valley  TBR plus finds finds,
 Tungston Mountain  TBR meteorites/ fragments
 Lucerne Valley  124 meteorites
 Coyote Dry lake 341 meteorites
 Stump Springs  130 plus meteorites
 Yelland Dry lake  Hundreds of fragments 
  
more deletions
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Re: [meteorite-list] Thank you Was Local to Las Vegas expert needed ...

[MEM via Meteorite-list]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.  I am in the process of responding 
to the contacts sent to me. Just wanted to thank everyone again who wrote and 
the subsequent discussion on the state of affairs for classification.

Elton
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Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew afind.

[Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list]

Sonny asked and I see no reason not to provide the find data and location.

Here are some images of my wife, Zann's first cold find in 2004.  It still 
has not been recorded in the Metoeritical Bulletin after more than a decade 
even though the data was submitted multiple times!


We needed to get permits from the BLM to search this area.  It didn't cost 
anything but we had to make trip reports and provide a valid reason for 
being in the area.  A copy of the permit needed to be posted in the vehicle 
window or else. There was also a MolyCorp radioactive material spill about a 
mile from this location on Ivanpah so we had to be careful not to hike into 
to.


You can see the hole it came out of and the coordinates on the GPS in this 
image.

http://themeteoritesite.com/Ivanpah/ZannsFinda.jpg

Another view with a hotel card key for scale
http://themeteoritesite.com/Ivanpah/ZannsFindb.jpg

And finally, one more image in the hand.
http://themeteoritesite.com/Ivanpah/ZannsFindc.jpg

Happy Hunting,

Adam



- Original Message - 
From: 

To: ; 
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew 
afind.



Hi Bob, Adam and List,


This is a concern that others have shared with me, and has prompted me to
write on this subject in three
separate articles, which essentially said,
"Hey, here are some US chondrites that need to be classified."
Still haven't
received any offers


Do you think that the scientists that are classifying these stones have been 
overwhelmed by the high number of stones coming from the same recovery area? 
Even when meteorites are found within a known area the finders often feel 
that they are different and are eager to have them classified. Many of the 
stones are obviously paired and it may not make financial sense for the 
scientists to spend time and resources on each individual stone. I do 
realize that their have been stones found that are uniquely different than 
others in the same dense collection area. I believe those should be 
classified without a doubt. What I am trying to decide at what point does 
classifying each tiny fragment become excessive? Maybe we should ask the 
Scientists that do the classifications what their opinion is.


Stewart Valley  120 plus finds finds,
Tungston Mountain  600 meteorites/ fragments
Lucerne Valley  124 meteorites
Yelland Dry lake  Hundreds of fragments
Coyote Dry lake 341 meteorites
Stump Springs  130 plus meteorites



I gave up on a classification that was submitted in 2005.  It was a fresh
type
3 oriented chondrite that my wife, Zann found.  It was the very first



meteorite she ever recovered and it was a cold find.  It would have been



serial number one but I think the unsavory practice of embargoing dry lake



bed finds interfered with the classification data being published in the



Bulletin.



I no longer submit U.S. finds for classification.  I prefer to
keep
personally found meteorites whole and intact.  Why cut a personal find
when
the odds of it being published are slim, even with the data submitted by
a
Nom Com recognized scientist?  Mine stay in a box so that I can enjoy the



memories of the hunt at a later date.




Adam


Hi Adam, I don't know your situation on the issue of embargoing dry lake 
beds or collection areas. Regarding Zann's find were there any previous 
finds made at that lake bed? If so, I feel the original finder should get 
the credit and the first number. The subsequent finds should be issued 
numbers in order of their find date. The only case that a find should get a 
new number is if it was a new area with no previous meteorite finds. Many of 
the lake beds have been hunted for years with great success. There were 
hundreds of field hours put in,  recording of data, etc.  I had a similar 
issue when a meteorite was found in an area that I had been working. I had 
hundreds of hours involved, stones classified,  provisional numbers, etc. 
Another stone was found by a hunter and he attempted to have his find 
assigned #1. Both the finder and the scientist doing his classification knew 
my history with this area and the many finds made. They still attempted to 
get the number changed. When they were unsuccessful they tried to change the 
name of that find. It was clearly paired with finds from the area. It is 
amazing that someone would attempt this.



Sonny






-Original Message-
From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list 


To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 9:42 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew 
afind.



I gave up on a classification that was submitted in 2005.  It was a fresh 
type3 oriented chondrite that my wife, Zann found.  It was the very 
firstmeteorite she ever recovered and it was a cold find.  It would 

[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

[Paul Swartz via Meteorite-list]

Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Benguerir

Contributed by: Gregor Hoeher

http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp?DD=09/15/2015
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[meteorite-list] Meteorite Museum, Atacama desert, Northern Chile

[Paul H. via Meteorite-list]

This Couple Built a Meteorite Museum in the 
Middle of the Desert—And It's Awesome 
by Jo Piazza, Yahoo News, Sept. 10, 2015
https://www.yahoo.com/travel/from-hobby-to-business-we-built-a-meteorite-128751142869.html

Yours,

Paul H.

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[meteorite-list] AD - Fantastic Items Ending At Auction!

[Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list]

Dear List Members,

I have some very interesting items ending at auction this evening with no 
reserve.  I put up many great examples of NWA 5000 including a specimen that 
exhibits the "3D" look that helped make this lunar meteorite famous.  In 
addition, I put up the controversial "oriented" gold nugget from Prescott, 
Arizona with a more detailed description along with several other solid gold 
nuggets from Nevada and Alaska.  Also, you will find a grade 9 Clovis point 
that marked the end of a culture.  It has been hypothesized than an impact 
from space wiped out the megafauna that the Clovis culture depended on.


NWA 5000 Specimens:

Legendary NWA 5000 Lunar Meteorite Moon Rock 1.0 grams Pure Dust
http://r.ebay.com/eTUVRN

Legendary NWA 5000 Lunar Meteorite Moon Rock .444 grams - NO RESERVE!
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http://r.ebay.com/R58YF1

Must See
This NWA 5000 specimen exhibits the "3D" look that is mainly seen in much 
larger and thicker slices

Legendary NWA 5000 Lunar Meteorite Moon Rock .956 grams - NO RESERVE -
FANTASTIC http://r.ebay.com/PIT0Hx

The Controversial 2/3 Troy Ounce "Oriented" Gold Nugget
SOLID GOLD NUGGET OR MINER'S BUTTON OR RELIC - PRESCOTT ARIZONA - 20.48
GRAMS!!! http://r.ebay.com/aH9MU3

A Beautiful Clovis Point:
AUTHENTIC PALEO CLOVIS POINT ARROWHEAD WITH COA - OHIO
http://r.ebay.com/fM1d3p


Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis Link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesis


Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck,


Adam Hupe
Original And New Team LunarRock Member


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Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.

[Robert Verish via Meteorite-list]

No Larry, 
There actually is a problem. 
John's "opinion" is a common misconception that I even held until I personally 
learned of this recent trend. 
This is a concern that others have shared with me, and has prompted me to write 
on this subject in three 
separate articles, which essentially said, "Hey, here are some US chondrites 
that need to be classified." 
Still haven't received any offers.  

My request still stands. 
I would like to hear from people with recent experience in this area that can 
point me in the direction of 
a cheap classifier that still accepts small, ordinary chondrites.  
I suspect when I find one it will be outside the US. 

Bob V.


On Tue, 9/15/15, Larry Atkins via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a 
find.
 To: bigjohns...@mail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2015, 5:28 AM
 
 Hi John, List,
 
 You may be right about not having a problem getting a US chondrite classified, 
however, 
 if it was found in the Mojave desert it is likely to get a number instead of a 
name.
 Unfortunately, Nom Com will likely lump it in with the nearest DCA, 
 
 I'm wondering how much longer it will be before the entire Mojave desert is 
one big
 DCA like NWA?
 
 
 
 Sincerely,
 Larry Atkins
  
 IMCA # 1941
 Ebay alienrockfarm
  
 
 
 -Original
 Message-
 From: Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list 
 To: mstreman53 
 Cc: Meteorite Mailing List 
 Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 5:07 am
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a 
find.
 
 
 I'd love to see a photo also, but I live in Philadelphia so I won't be
 seeingthis in person. :-) That aside,I'm assuming from
 your post that this is a"chondrite" native to the
 USA, and not just another NWA. I have about 25
 NWA'sundergoing classification now, and I have more
 I'd like to get classified but itis indeed hard to find
 a lab that will work on NWAs that look like obvious OCs. I
 think that is a mistake on their part, because there are so
 many uniquethings to be found in meteorites.  
 In my opinion, many labs would thinkdifferently about a
 "native" US chondrite, than an NWA chondrite.  I
 do notthink you will have trouble finding a home for it if
 it is a USA find.  Cheers,John 

Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 at 5:47 PMFrom: "MEM viaMeteorite-list"
 To: "Meteorite
 MailingList" Subject: [meteorite-list]
 Local toLas Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.I am in
 contact with a Las Vegasresident who has, by all appearances
 fair-sized, fresh chondrite. If you arewilling and able to
 inspect in person and get her stone into the system,
 pleasesend me your contact information for forwarding. Pics
 onrequest.Regards,Elton
__

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Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew afind.

[Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list]

I gave up on a classification that was submitted in 2005.  It was a fresh 
type 3 oriented chondrite that my wife, Zann found.  It was the very first 
meteorite she ever recovered and it was a cold find.  It would have been 
serial number one but I think the unsavory practice of embargoing dry lake 
bed finds interfered with the classification data being published in the 
Bulletin.


I no longer submit U.S. finds for classification.  I prefer to keep 
personally found meteorites whole and intact.  Why cut a personal find when 
the odds of it being published are slim, even with the data submitted by a 
Nom Com recognized scientist?  Mine stay in a box so that I can enjoy the 
memories of the hunt at a later date.



Adam



- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Verish via Meteorite-list" 

To: ; ; "Larry 
Atkins" 

Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew 
afind.



No Larry,
There actually is a problem.
John's "opinion" is a common misconception that I even held until I 
personally learned of this recent trend.
This is a concern that others have shared with me, and has prompted me to 
write on this subject in three
separate articles, which essentially said, "Hey, here are some US chondrites 
that need to be classified."

Still haven't received any offers.

My request still stands.
I would like to hear from people with recent experience in this area that 
can point me in the direction of

a cheap classifier that still accepts small, ordinary chondrites.
I suspect when I find one it will be outside the US.

Bob V.


On Tue, 9/15/15, Larry Atkins via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:


Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a 
find.

To: bigjohns...@mail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2015, 5:28 AM

Hi John, List,

You may be right about not having a problem getting a US chondrite 
classified, however,
if it was found in the Mojave desert it is likely to get a number instead 
of a name.

Unfortunately, Nom Com will likely lump it in with the nearest DCA,

I'm wondering how much longer it will be before the entire Mojave desert is 
one big

DCA like NWA?



Sincerely,
Larry Atkins

IMCA # 1941
Ebay alienrockfarm



-Original
Message-
From: Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list 
To: mstreman53 
Cc: Meteorite Mailing List 
Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 5:07 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a 
find.



I'd love to see a photo also, but I live in Philadelphia so I won't be
seeingthis in person. :-) That aside,I'm assuming from
your post that this is a"chondrite" native to the
USA, and not just another NWA. I have about 25
NWA'sundergoing classification now, and I have more
I'd like to get classified but itis indeed hard to find
a lab that will work on NWAs that look like obvious OCs. I
think that is a mistake on their part, because there are so
many uniquethings to be found in meteorites.
In my opinion, many labs would thinkdifferently about a
"native" US chondrite, than an NWA chondrite. I
do notthink you will have trouble finding a home for it if
it is a USA find. Cheers,John

Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 at 5:47 PMFrom: "MEM viaMeteorite-list"
To: "Meteorite
MailingList" Subject: [meteorite-list]
Local toLas Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.I am in
contact with a Las Vegasresident who has, by all appearances
fair-sized, fresh chondrite. If you arewilling and able to
inspect in person and get her stone into the system,
pleasesend me your contact information for forwarding. Pics
onrequest.Regards,Elton
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Re: [meteorite-list] Send me a photo too

[almitt2--- via Meteorite-list]

Hi list and Bob,

I don't know if I would take a gamble on that or not. :-)

--AL Mitterling

Quoting Robert Haag via Meteorite-list :


I need an excuse to go to. Las Vegas

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [meteorite-list] Send me a photo too

[Regine P. via Meteorite-list]

Nothing to gain if you don't risk it - that's why Bob is king :)





almitt2--- via Meteorite-list  schrieb am 
13:25 Dienstag, 15.September 2015:


>
>
>Hi list and Bob,
>
>I don't know if I would take a gamble on that or not. :-)
>
>--AL Mitterling
>
>Quoting Robert Haag via Meteorite-list :
>
>> I need an excuse to go to. Las Vegas
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> __
>>
>> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and 
>> the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>>
>
>
>
>__
>
>Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
>Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.

[Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list]

I'd love to see a photo also, but I live in Philadelphia so I won't be seeing 
this in person. :-)
 
That aside,
I'm assuming from your post that this is a "chondrite" native to the USA, and 
not just another NWA.
 
I have about 25 NWA's undergoing classification now, and I have more I'd like 
to get classified but it is indeed hard to find a lab that will work on NWAs 
that look like obvious OCs.  I think that is a mistake on their part, because 
there are so many unique things to be found in meteorites.  
In my opinion, many labs would think differently about a "native" US chondrite, 
than an NWA chondrite.  I do not think you will have trouble finding a home for 
it if it is a USA find.  
 
Cheers,
John
 

Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 at 5:47 PM
From: "MEM via Meteorite-list" 
To: "Meteorite Mailing List" 
Subject: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.
I am in contact with a Las Vegas resident who has, by all appearances 
fair-sized, fresh chondrite. If you are willing and able to inspect in person 
and get her stone into the system, please send me your contact information for 
forwarding. Pics on request.

Regards,
Elton
__

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Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.

[Carl Esparza via Meteorite-list]

List, 
A word of warning; if you are in the Vegas area DO NOT let it leave your hands 
or chances are you will never see it again anyway . Just sayin!
Carl
--
Love & Life

 Robert Verish via Meteorite-list  
wrote: 
> No Larry, 
> There actually is a problem. 
> John's "opinion" is a common misconception that I even held until I 
> personally learned of this recent trend. 
> This is a concern that others have shared with me, and has prompted me to 
> write on this subject in three 
> separate articles, which essentially said, "Hey, here are some US chondrites 
> that need to be classified." 
> Still haven't received any offers.  
> 
> My request still stands. 
> I would like to hear from people with recent experience in this area that can 
> point me in the direction of 
> a cheap classifier that still accepts small, ordinary chondrites.  
> I suspect when I find one it will be outside the US. 
> 
> Bob V.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 9/15/15, Larry Atkins via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a 
> find.
>  To: bigjohns...@mail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>  Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>  Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2015, 5:28 AM
>  
>  Hi John, List,
>  
>  You may be right about not having a problem getting a US chondrite 
> classified, however, 
>  if it was found in the Mojave desert it is likely to get a number instead of 
> a name.
>  Unfortunately, Nom Com will likely lump it in with the nearest DCA, 
>  
>  I'm wondering how much longer it will be before the entire Mojave desert is 
> one big
>  DCA like NWA?
>  
>  
>  
>  Sincerely,
>  Larry Atkins
>   
>  IMCA # 1941
>  Ebay alienrockfarm
>   
>  
>  
>  -Original
>  Message-
>  From: Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list 
>  To: mstreman53 
>  Cc: Meteorite Mailing List 
>  Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 5:07 am
>  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a 
> find.
>  
>  
>  I'd love to see a photo also, but I live in Philadelphia so I won't be
>  seeingthis in person. :-) That aside,I'm assuming from
>  your post that this is a"chondrite" native to the
>  USA, and not just another NWA. I have about 25
>  NWA'sundergoing classification now, and I have more
>  I'd like to get classified but itis indeed hard to find
>  a lab that will work on NWAs that look like obvious OCs. I
>  think that is a mistake on their part, because there are so
>  many uniquethings to be found in meteorites.  
>  In my opinion, many labs would thinkdifferently about a
>  "native" US chondrite, than an NWA chondrite.  I
>  do notthink you will have trouble finding a home for it if
>  it is a USA find.  Cheers,John 
> 
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 at 5:47 PMFrom: "MEM viaMeteorite-list"
>  To: "Meteorite
>  MailingList" Subject: [meteorite-list]
>  Local toLas Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.I am in
>  contact with a Las Vegasresident who has, by all appearances
>  fair-sized, fresh chondrite. If you arewilling and able to
>  inspect in person and get her stone into the system,
>  pleasesend me your contact information for forwarding. Pics
>  onrequest.Regards,Elton
> __
> 
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew afind.

[wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list]

Hi Bob, Adam and List,

>This is a concern that others have shared with me, and has prompted me to
>write on this subject in three 
>separate articles, which essentially said,
>"Hey, here are some US chondrites that need to be classified." 
>Still haven't
>received any offers

Do you think that the scientists that are classifying these stones have been 
overwhelmed by the high number of stones coming from the same recovery area?  
Even when meteorites are found within a known area the finders often feel that 
they are different and are eager to have them classified. Many of the stones 
are obviously paired and it may not make financial sense for the scientists to 
spend time and resources on each individual stone. I do realize that their have 
been stones found that are uniquely different than others in the same dense 
collection area. I believe those should be classified without a doubt. What I 
am trying to decide at what point does classifying each tiny fragment become 
excessive? Maybe we should ask the Scientists that do the classifications what 
their opinion is.

Stewart Valley  120 plus finds finds,
Tungston Mountain  600 meteorites/ fragments
Lucerne Valley  124 meteorites
Yelland Dry lake  Hundreds of fragments 
Coyote Dry lake 341 meteorites
Stump Springs  130 plus meteorites

 
>I gave up on a classification that was submitted in 2005.  It was a fresh 
>type
>3 oriented chondrite that my wife, Zann found.  It was the very first

>meteorite she ever recovered and it was a cold find.  It would have been

>serial number one but I think the unsavory practice of embargoing dry lake

>bed finds interfered with the classification data being published in the

>Bulletin.

>I no longer submit U.S. finds for classification.  I prefer to
>keep 
>personally found meteorites whole and intact.  Why cut a personal find
>when 
>the odds of it being published are slim, even with the data submitted by
>a 
>Nom Com recognized scientist?  Mine stay in a box so that I can enjoy the

>memories of the hunt at a later date.


>Adam

Hi Adam, I don't know your situation on the issue of embargoing dry lake beds 
or collection areas. Regarding Zann's find were there any previous finds made 
at that lake bed? If so, I feel the original finder should get the credit and 
the first number. The subsequent finds should be issued numbers in order of 
their find date. The only case that a find should get a new number is if it was 
a new area with no previous meteorite finds. Many of the lake beds have been 
hunted for years with great success. There were hundreds of field hours put in, 
 recording of data, etc.  I had a similar issue when a meteorite was found in 
an area that I had been working. I had hundreds of hours involved, stones 
classified,  provisional numbers, etc. Another stone was found by a hunter and 
he attempted to have his find assigned #1. Both the finder and the scientist 
doing his classification knew my history with this area and the many finds 
made. They still attempted to get the number changed. When they were
  unsuccessful they tried to change the name of that find. It was clearly 
paired with finds from the area. It is amazing that someone would attempt this. 


Sonny

 




-Original Message-
From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 9:42 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew afind.


I gave up on a classification that was submitted in 2005.  It was a fresh type3 
oriented chondrite that my wife, Zann found.  It was the very firstmeteorite 
she ever recovered and it was a cold find.  It would have beenserial number one 
but I think the unsavory practice of embargoing dry lakebed finds interfered 
with the classification data being published in theBulletin.I no longer submit 
U.S. finds for classification.  I prefer tokeep personally found meteorites 
whole and intact.  Why cut a personal findwhen the odds of it being published 
are slim, even with the data submitted bya Nom Com recognized scientist?  Mine 
stay in a box so that I can enjoy thememories of the hunt at a later 
date.Adam- Original Message- From: "Robert Verish via 
Meteorite-list"To: 
;; "Larry Atkins" 
Cc:Sent: Tuesday, 
September 15, 2015 9:15AMSubject: 
 Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiewafind.No 
Larry,There actually is a problem.John's "opinion" is acommon misconception 
that I even held until I personally learned of thisrecent trend.This is a 
concern that others have shared with me, and hasprompted me to write on this 
subject in threeseparate articles, whichessentially said, "Hey, here are some 
US chondrites that need to beclassified."Still haven't received any offers.My 
request 

Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.

[wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list]

Hi Carl,

What ever happened with your Cat Mountain meteorite?  Here Kitty Kitty!

Sonny


-Original Message-
From: Carl Esparza via Meteorite-list 
To: bigjohnshea ; Larry Atkins ; 
Robert Verish 
Cc: Robert Verish via Meteorite-list 
Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 12:23 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.


List, A word of warning; if you are in the Vegas area DO NOT let it leave 
yourhands or chances are you will never see it again anyway . 
Justsayin!Carl--Love & Life Robert Verish via 
Meteorite-list wrote: > No Larry, > There 
actually is aproblem. > John's "opinion" is a common misconception that I even 
held until Ipersonally learned of this recent trend. > This is a concern that 
others haveshared with me, and has prompted me to write on this subject in 
three >separate articles, which essentially said, "Hey, here are some US 
chondritesthat need to be classified." > Still haven't received any offers.  > 
> Myrequest still stands. > I would like to hear from people with recent 
experiencein this area that can point me in the direction of > a cheap 
classifier thatstill accepts small, ordinary chondrites.  > I suspect when I 
find one it willbe outside the US. > > Bob V.> 
>> On Tue, 9/15/15, Larry Atkins 
viaMeteorite-list  wrote:> >  Subject: 
Re:[meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.>  
To:bigjohns...@mail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>  
Cc:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>  Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2015, 
5:28AM>  >  Hi John, List,>  >  You may be right about not having a 
problemgetting a US chondrite classified, however, >  if it was found in the 
Mojavedesert it is likely to get a number instead of a name.>  Unfortunately, 
Nom Comwill likely lump it in with the nearest DCA, >  >  I'm wondering how 
muchlonger it will be before the entire Mojave desert is one big>  DCA like 
NWA?> >  >  >  Sincerely,>  Larry Atkins>   >  IMCA # 1941> Ebay alienrockfarm> 
  >  >  >  -Original>  Message->  From:Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list 
>  To:mstreman53 >  
Cc: Meteorite Mailing List>  Sent: Tue, 
Sep 15, 2015 5:07 am> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert 
needed to rewiew afind.>  >  >  I'd love to see a photo also, but I live in 
Philadelphia so Iwon't be>  seeingthis in person. :-) That aside,I'm assuming 
from>  your postthat this is a"chondrite" native to the>  USA, and not just 
another NWA. I haveabout 25>  NWA'sundergoing classification now, and I have 
more>  I'd like toget classified but itis indeed hard to find>  a lab that will 
work on NWAs thatlook like obvious OCs. I>  think that is a mistake on their 
part, because thereare so>  many uniquethings to be found in meteorites.  >  In 
my opinion, manylabs would thinkdifferently about a>  "native" US chondrite, 
than an NWAchondrite.  I>  do notthink you will have trouble finding a home for 
it if> it is a USA find.  Cheers,John > > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 at 
5:47PMFrom: "MEM viaMeteorite-list"> To: 
"Meteorite>  MailingList"Subject: 
[meteorite-list]>  Local toLasVegas expert needed to rewiew a find.I am in>  
contact with a Las Vegasresidentwho has, by all appearances>  fair-sized, fresh 
chondrite. If you arewillingand able to>  inspect in person and get her stone 
into the system,> pleasesend me your contact information for forwarding. Pics> 
onrequest.Regards,Elton> __> >Visit 
our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and theArchives at 
http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com> Meteorite-list mailinglist> 
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list__Visitour
 Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives 
athttp://www.meteorite-list-archives.comMeteorite-list 
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[meteorite-list] Double Impact Crters Found In Sweden (~470 Ma)

[Paul H. via Meteorite-list]

Two Meteors Hit Ancient Earth at Same Time
D News, by Elizabeth Palmero, LiveScience
http://news.discovery.com/space/asteroids-meteors-meteorites/two-meteors-hit-ancient-earth-at-same-time-150915.htm
http://www.livescience.com/52154-ancient-meteors-struck-simultaneously.html

Double crater identified in Sweden
Eureka alert, University of Gothenburg, Sept. 11, 2015
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-09/uog-gud091115.php
http://www.gu.se/english/about_the_university/news-calendar/News_detail//globally-unique-double-crater-identified-in-sweden.cid1317063

Yours,

Paul H.
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[meteorite-list] Correction to Double Impact Craters Post

[Paul H. via Meteorite-list]

The age of the craters is given as 458 ma, not 470 ma.
I misread the text.

Yours,

Paul H.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.

[Larry Atkins via Meteorite-list]

Hi John, List,

You may be right about not having a problem getting a US
chondrite classified, however, if it was found in the Mohave desert it is likely
to get a number instead of a name. Unfortunately, Nom Com will likely lump it in
with the nearest DCA, 

I'm wondering how much longer it will be before the
entire Mohave desert is one big DCA like NWA?



Sincerely,
Larry Atkins
 
IMCA # 1941
Ebay alienrockfarm
 


-Original Message-
From: Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list 
To: mstreman53 
Cc: Meteorite Mailing List 
Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2015 5:07 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Local to Las Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.


I'd love to see a photo also, but I live in Philadelphia so I won't be 
seeingthis in person. :-) That aside,I'm assuming from your post that this is 
a"chondrite" native to the USA, and not just another NWA. I have about 25 
NWA'sundergoing classification now, and I have more I'd like to get classified 
but itis indeed hard to find a lab that will work on NWAs that look like 
obvious OCs. I think that is a mistake on their part, because there are so many 
uniquethings to be found in meteorites.  In my opinion, many labs would 
thinkdifferently about a "native" US chondrite, than an NWA chondrite.  I do 
notthink you will have trouble finding a home for it if it is a USA find.  
Cheers,John Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 at 5:47 PMFrom: "MEM 
viaMeteorite-list" To: "Meteorite 
MailingList" Subject: [meteorite-list] 
Local toLas Vegas expert needed to rewiew a find.I am in contact with a Las 
Vegasresident who has, by all appearances fair-sized, fresh chondrite. If you 
arewilling and able to inspect in person and get her stone into the system, 
pleasesend me your contact information for forwarding. Pics 
onrequest.Regards,Elton__Visitour 
Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives 
athttp://www.meteorite-list-archives.com[http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com]Meteorite-listmailinglistMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttps://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list[https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list]__Visitour
 Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives 
athttp://www.meteorite-list-archives.comMeteorite-list 
mailinglistMeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.comhttps://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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