Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Jeff Grossman Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. Oktober 2013 01:21 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) As I've pointed out a number of times before, the scientific impact of past research on Antarctic meteorites vastly outweighs that of work on Saharan and other warm-desert meteorites. The reasons for this are historical and curatorial. And as a person who has done a lot of research on chondrites from both places, I can say from long experience that the degree of weathering in Antarctic specimens is, overall, much less. Work on warm desert meteorites is growing in importance, that's certain. This is especially true in terms of work on unique or unusual specimens, like NWA 7034, which are more plentiful in hot desert collections. But when most scientists want to do systematic studies, the first stops are still very likely to be collections of observed falls and Antarctic meteorites. So I guess it boils down to the meaning of best. For collectors, it's no contest, since you cannot privately own most Antarctics. For Science, with a capital S, Antarctics have generally been best, although some like Carl, are doing great work on special hot desert finds. My take. Jeff __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
50% is not even close. I counted the peer-reviewed papers in the 2012 volume of MAPS. In the 58 non-review papers that reported analyses of physical samples of meteorites, 52% used falls, 12% used non-desert finds, 24% used hot desert meteorites, and 28% used Antarctic meteorites. (this sums to 100% because some papers reported data in multiple categories). So, if 2012 in MAPS is representative (I'm done counting, so I can't answer that), when it comes to the question of what are the most important meteorites for Science these days, it isn't hot OR cold desert meteorites... it's observed falls. Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which is the trend we all see. Jeff On 10/10/2013 12:27 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: I will not debate the legacy of Antarctic meteorites. They have had a wonderful history and their contribution to science has been invaluable. Most researchers are sample oriented and are not biased by find location but there are still a few that cling to legacy. Antarctica had a a two decade plus head start in the abstract/paper queue so naturally there are more documents. Ten years ago, maybe one in ten papers were on hot desert finds. Now, I estimate about 50%. At this rate, as very important samples from NWA and other deserts enter the queue, it will not be long before these finds handily overtake Antarctica by a wide margin in the business of science. In other words; There is not enough material coming out of Antarctica anymore to reverse the current trend which favors the hot desert meteorites for research material in the future. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Jeff Stated: Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which is the trend we all see. I agree with this statement. They were not subequal just a few years ago meaning the trend is favoring hot desert finds long term. The number of rare and unusual meteorites coming out of the hot deserts far exceed those being recovered from Antarctica. Adam --- Original Message - From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) 50% is not even close. I counted the peer-reviewed papers in the 2012 volume of MAPS. In the 58 non-review papers that reported analyses of physical samples of meteorites, 52% used falls, 12% used non-desert finds, 24% used hot desert meteorites, and 28% used Antarctic meteorites. (this sums to 100% because some papers reported data in multiple categories). So, if 2012 in MAPS is representative (I'm done counting, so I can't answer that), when it comes to the question of what are the most important meteorites for Science these days, it isn't hot OR cold desert meteorites... it's observed falls. Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which is the trend we all see. Jeff On 10/10/2013 12:27 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: I will not debate the legacy of Antarctic meteorites. They have had a wonderful history and their contribution to science has been invaluable. Most researchers are sample oriented and are not biased by find location but there are still a few that cling to legacy. Antarctica had a a two decade plus head start in the abstract/paper queue so naturally there are more documents. Ten years ago, maybe one in ten papers were on hot desert finds. Now, I estimate about 50%. At this rate, as very important samples from NWA and other deserts enter the queue, it will not be long before these finds handily overtake Antarctica by a wide margin in the business of science. In other words; There is not enough material coming out of Antarctica anymore to reverse the current trend which favors the hot desert meteorites for research material in the future. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Hi all, Just a thought. Don't know if it has been mentioned in this thread, but I wonder how many Falls have been reported out of the Antartic and what importance would the actual sighting of a meteor and it's recovery hold to the science and importance of the specimen? I can think of one for suretime of arrival! Cordially, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc -Original Message- From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Sent: Oct 9, 2013 9:27 PM To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) I will not debate the legacy of Antarctic meteorites. They have had a wonderful history and their contribution to science has been invaluable. Most researchers are sample oriented and are not biased by find location but there are still a few that cling to legacy. Antarctica had a a two decade plus head start in the abstract/paper queue so naturally there are more documents. Ten years ago, maybe one in ten papers were on hot desert finds. Now, I estimate about 50%. At this rate, as very important samples from NWA and other deserts enter the queue, it will not be long before these finds handily overtake Antarctica by a wide margin in the business of science. In other words; There is not enough material coming out of Antarctica anymore to reverse the current trend which favors the hot desert meteorites for research material in the future. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
I think where NWA and the hot desert finds have had the greatest benefit to science with a capital S are in achondrites and in particular martian meteorites. If you look at the abstracts at 2012-2013 LPSC and MetSoc (no, I didn't actually count them) the martian meteorite literature is now dominated by NWA finds and Tissint. Again, ANSMET just isn't nearly as productive, and you can have multi-year dry spells when no ANSMET martians were recovered. Recently it has been very sparse with 1 pairing in 2012, 1 pairing in 2009, 1 find in 2006. In fact, according to MetBull, in the last ten years there have been only 6 martians (12, not counting pairings) recovered. Another ANSMET martian drought was 1994-2000. Lunars in NWA are productive too, but interestingly dominated by feldspathic breccias. For lunars though, at least for the foreseeable future, there will never be a contest for dominance because of the 390 kg of Moon rocks from Apollo, which will be the gold standard until we return to the Moon. In contrast, a Mars sample return seems to always be 10 years away with a continually out-of-reach horizon. So martian meteorites, mostly from NWA, will be our Mars sample return until we get a President who tells NASA to go to Mars with MSR or humans (or until Chinese beat us to it). Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Jeff Stated: Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which is the trend we all see. I agree with this statement. They were not subequal just a few years ago meaning the trend is favoring hot desert finds long term. The number of rare and unusual meteorites coming out of the hot deserts far exceed those being recovered from Antarctica. Adam --- Original Message - From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) 50% is not even close. I counted the peer-reviewed papers in the 2012 volume of MAPS. In the 58 non-review papers that reported analyses of physical samples of meteorites, 52% used falls, 12% used non-desert finds, 24% used hot desert meteorites, and 28% used Antarctic meteorites. (this sums to 100% because some papers reported data in multiple categories). So, if 2012 in MAPS is representative (I'm done counting, so I can't answer that), when it comes to the question of what are the most important meteorites for Science these days, it isn't hot OR cold desert meteorites... it's observed falls. Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which is the trend we all see. Jeff On 10/10/2013 12:27 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: I will not debate the legacy of Antarctic meteorites. They have had a wonderful history and their contribution to science has been invaluable. Most researchers are sample oriented and are not biased by find location but there are still a few that cling to legacy. Antarctica had a a two decade plus head start in the abstract/paper queue so naturally there are more documents. Ten years ago, maybe one in ten papers were on hot desert finds. Now, I estimate about 50%. At this rate, as very important samples from NWA and other deserts enter the queue, it will not be long before these finds handily overtake Antarctica by a wide margin in the business of science. In other words; There is not enough material coming out of Antarctica anymore to reverse the current trend which favors the hot desert meteorites for research material in the future. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Carl Stated For lunars though, at least for the foreseeable future, there will never be a contest for dominance because of the 390 kg of Moon rocks from Apollo, which will be the gold standard until we return to the Moon. I agree that the Apollo returned Moon rocks are a national treasure. One of the highlights of my life was seeing some of these specimens for myself up close and personal in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory (Vault) at the NASA facility at the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center where this precious material is stored. Where lunar finds contribute to science is that many have come from unsampled parts of the Moon. There are a few unique Lunaite examples that provide additional understanding of our nearest celestial neighbor. I was pleased to see a poster of NWA 5000 on the wall right across the hall from the NASA Moon rock vault. This tells me that the researches are sample oriented and where a Moon rock comes from is secondary. This enhances data acquisition instead of competing against it. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) I think where NWA and the hot desert finds have had the greatest benefit to science with a capital S are in achondrites and in particular martian meteorites. If you look at the abstracts at 2012-2013 LPSC and MetSoc (no, I didn't actually count them) the martian meteorite literature is now dominated by NWA finds and Tissint. Again, ANSMET just isn't nearly as productive, and you can have multi-year dry spells when no ANSMET martians were recovered. Recently it has been very sparse with 1 pairing in 2012, 1 pairing in 2009, 1 find in 2006. In fact, according to MetBull, in the last ten years there have been only 6 martians (12, not counting pairings) recovered. Another ANSMET martian drought was 1994-2000. Lunars in NWA are productive too, but interestingly dominated by feldspathic breccias. For lunars though, at least for the foreseeable future, there will never be a contest for dominance because of the 390 kg of Moon rocks from Apollo, which will be the gold standard until we return to the Moon. In contrast, a Mars sample return seems to always be 10 years away with a continually out-of-reach horizon. So martian meteorites, mostly from NWA, will be our Mars sample return until we get a President who tells NASA to go to Mars with MSR or humans (or until Chinese beat us to it). Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Jeff Stated: Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which is the trend we all see. I agree with this statement. They were not subequal just a few years ago meaning the trend is favoring hot desert finds long term. The number of rare and unusual meteorites coming out of the hot deserts far exceed those being recovered from Antarctica. Adam --- Original Message - From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) 50% is not even close. I counted the peer-reviewed papers in the 2012 volume of MAPS. In the 58 non-review papers that reported analyses of physical samples of meteorites, 52% used falls, 12% used non-desert finds, 24% used hot desert meteorites, and 28% used Antarctic meteorites. (this sums to 100% because some papers reported data in multiple categories). So, if 2012 in MAPS is representative (I'm done counting, so I can't answer that), when it comes to the question of what are the most important meteorites for Science these days, it isn't hot OR cold desert meteorites... it's observed falls. Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which is the trend we all see. Jeff On 10/10/2013 12:27 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: I will not debate the legacy of Antarctic meteorites. They have had a wonderful history and their contribution to science has been invaluable. Most researchers are sample oriented and are not biased by find location but there are still a few that cling to legacy. Antarctica had a a two decade plus head start in the abstract/paper queue so naturally there are more documents. Ten years ago, maybe one in ten papers were on hot desert finds. Now, I estimate about 50%. At this rate, as very important samples from NWA and other deserts enter the queue, it will not be long
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Adam, I totally agree! And actually the lunar meteorites are telling us that the Apollo collection is highly skewed towards the mare basalts and other possibly atypical rocks of the nearside. Now if we could just prove that a particular lunar meteorite was a sample from the South Pole Aitken Basin! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Carl Stated For lunars though, at least for the foreseeable future, there will never be a contest for dominance because of the 390 kg of Moon rocks from Apollo, which will be the gold standard until we return to the Moon. I agree that the Apollo returned Moon rocks are a national treasure. One of the highlights of my life was seeing some of these specimens for myself up close and personal in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory (Vault) at the NASA facility at the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center where this precious material is stored. Where lunar finds contribute to science is that many have come from unsampled parts of the Moon. There are a few unique Lunaite examples that provide additional understanding of our nearest celestial neighbor. I was pleased to see a poster of NWA 5000 on the wall right across the hall from the NASA Moon rock vault. This tells me that the researches are sample oriented and where a Moon rock comes from is secondary. This enhances data acquisition instead of competing against it. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) I think where NWA and the hot desert finds have had the greatest benefit to science with a capital S are in achondrites and in particular martian meteorites. If you look at the abstracts at 2012-2013 LPSC and MetSoc (no, I didn't actually count them) the martian meteorite literature is now dominated by NWA finds and Tissint. Again, ANSMET just isn't nearly as productive, and you can have multi-year dry spells when no ANSMET martians were recovered. Recently it has been very sparse with 1 pairing in 2012, 1 pairing in 2009, 1 find in 2006. In fact, according to MetBull, in the last ten years there have been only 6 martians (12, not counting pairings) recovered. Another ANSMET martian drought was 1994-2000. Lunars in NWA are productive too, but interestingly dominated by feldspathic breccias. For lunars though, at least for the foreseeable future, there will never be a contest for dominance because of the 390 kg of Moon rocks from Apollo, which will be the gold standard until we return to the Moon. In contrast, a Mars sample return seems to always be 10 years away with a continually out-of-reach horizon. So martian meteorites, mostly from NWA, will be our Mars sample return until we get a President who tells NASA to go to Mars with MSR or humans (or until Chinese beat us to it). Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Jeff Stated: Papers on hot and cold desert meteorites are subequal, which is the trend we all see. I agree with this statement. They were not subequal just a few years ago meaning the trend is favoring hot desert finds long term. The number of rare and unusual meteorites coming out of the hot deserts far exceed those being recovered from Antarctica. Adam --- Original Message - From: Jeff Grossman jngross...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) 50% is not even close. I counted the peer-reviewed papers in the 2012 volume of MAPS. In the 58 non-review papers that reported analyses of physical samples of meteorites, 52% used falls, 12% used non-desert finds, 24% used hot desert meteorites, and 28% used Antarctic meteorites. (this sums to 100% because some papers reported data in multiple categories). So, if 2012 in MAPS is representative (I'm done counting, so I can't answer that), when it comes to the question of what are the most important meteorites for Science these days, it isn't hot OR cold desert meteorites... it's
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara Adam - Original Message - From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica. By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara Adam - Original Message - From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica. By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Northwest Africa 2737, the only other chassignite. * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara Adam - Original Message - From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica. By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Carl, I'm guessing that the reason for the disparity you speak of below between NWA and Antarctic meteorites is that EVERY antarctic meteorite get collected with no filtering while the NWA meteorites are brought to light by economic drivers. Old, weathered or uninteresting material does not get brought forth because almost no one wants to buy it and fewer still would bother classifying. It is an interesting aspect of the NWA dynamics that has not been explored and a perfect example of the role collectors and dealers play in acting as filters for the scientific community. Best, Mendy On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Northwest Africa 2737, the only other chassignite. * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara Adam - Original Message - From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica. By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
It is myth that Antarctic meteorites are less weathered. They weather differently is all. I have been in the Antarctic Laboratory and can tell that most of the inventory is not free of rusticles and evaporation deposits. After all, Antarctica gets its weather right of the salt water ocean. It seems only the best looking material is ever put on public display. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara Adam - Original Message - From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica. By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Mendy, Absolutely! I remember the curation folks at NASA JSC describing the mind-numbing ordeal of having to catalog hundreds of EOCs brought back by ANSMET, many of which were of course the same meteorite. Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote: Carl, I'm guessing that the reason for the disparity you speak of below between NWA and Antarctic meteorites is that EVERY antarctic meteorite get collected with no filtering while the NWA meteorites are brought to light by economic drivers. Old, weathered or uninteresting material does not get brought forth because almost no one wants to buy it and fewer still would bother classifying. It is an interesting aspect of the NWA dynamics that has not been explored and a perfect example of the role collectors and dealers play in acting as filters for the scientific community. Best, Mendy On Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:28 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Northwest Africa 2737, the only other chassignite. * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara Adam - Original Message - From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica. By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Weathering rates for New Mexico, Sahara, and Antarctica: http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1993Metic..28Q.460W * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It is myth that Antarctic meteorites are less weathered. They weather differently is all. I have been in the Antarctic Laboratory and can tell that most of the inventory is not free of rusticles and evaporation deposits. After all, Antarctica gets its weather right of the salt water ocean. It seems only the best looking material is ever put on public display. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara Adam - Original Message - From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica. By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Interesting, Statistics are wonderful when using two different weather grading systems with a limited sampling. I will state that some fantastic meteorites have come out of Antarctica and have certainly been managed better for the most part than their NWA counterparts. On the other hand, by rarity, weight and numbers, NWA is by far in the lead. In the long run, I have always been of the opinion that it doesn't matter where a meteorite lands just so long as ponderable pieces are recovered. The yield of meteorites with great scientific importance has trended greatly towards NWA the last decade. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) Weathering rates for New Mexico, Sahara, and Antarctica: http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1993Metic..28Q.460W * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It is myth that Antarctic meteorites are less weathered. They weather differently is all. I have been in the Antarctic Laboratory and can tell that most of the inventory is not free of rusticles and evaporation deposits. After all, Antarctica gets its weather right of the salt water ocean. It seems only the best looking material is ever put on public display. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It should be changed to A few of the best meteorites are found in Antarctica but these days, most are found in the Sahara Adam - Original Message - From: Paul H. inselb...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 11:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica Exploring the Solar System From the Ends of the Earth The best meteorites are found in … Antarctica. By Meenakshi Wadhwa, Slate Magazine http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/09/the_best_meteorites_are_found_in_antarctica.html Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
Hi Adam, Mendy, Carl, List, Mendy raised a good point about filtering by live human beings. In Antarctica, the classification queue is determined largely by mindless geological processes that gather the meteorites and deposit them in large numbers into locations where they are relatively-easy to find. In the NWA dense collection area, the specimens are distributed and found randomly in piecemeal fashion by humans. Those meteorites then pass down the chain of custody from finder to middleman/wholesaler to dealer to final buyer. At any point along that chain, a human may spot something interesting that is then put aside for individual attention. The majority of unremarkable, less-valuable, less-interesting material ends up bypassing the classification process and will remain unclassified (obvious H5 W4 material, etc). I don't feel particularly offended when such bottom-feeder common material ends up being used for jewelry and trinkets - at least somebody is enhancing it's value/interest in some way - if that material hasn't clogged up the classification system before it gets to the end buyer. The end result is that keen, experienced eyes will bring the best material to the classification queue. Because of NWA, Vestans are no longer rare. Remember when a howardite was a big deal? Now they scarcely fetch more than a handful of dollars per gram and collectors can choose from many dozens of them. I think every institution that needs howardite for study, must surely have plenty of it by now. The big difference is for collectors. Most collectors will never hold (much less own) the majority of meteorites from Antarctica - they are unobtainable, save for a few exceptions. Collectors get to look at pictures and read the papers about ANSMET meteorites, but we will never own any of them, nor see them in-hand. NWA is an entirely different story. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/9/13, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Interesting, Statistics are wonderful when using two different weather grading systems with a limited sampling. I will state that some fantastic meteorites have come out of Antarctica and have certainly been managed better for the most part than their NWA counterparts. On the other hand, by rarity, weight and numbers, NWA is by far in the lead. In the long run, I have always been of the opinion that it doesn't matter where a meteorite lands just so long as ponderable pieces are recovered. The yield of meteorites with great scientific importance has trended greatly towards NWA the last decade. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) Weathering rates for New Mexico, Sahara, and Antarctica: http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1993Metic..28Q.460W * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It is myth that Antarctic meteorites are less weathered. They weather differently is all. I have been in the Antarctic Laboratory and can tell that most of the inventory is not free of rusticles and evaporation deposits. After all, Antarctica gets its weather right of the salt water ocean. It seems only the best looking material is ever put on public display. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
As I've pointed out a number of times before, the scientific impact of past research on Antarctic meteorites vastly outweighs that of work on Saharan and other warm-desert meteorites. The reasons for this are historical and curatorial. And as a person who has done a lot of research on chondrites from both places, I can say from long experience that the degree of weathering in Antarctic specimens is, overall, much less. Work on warm desert meteorites is growing in importance, that's certain. This is especially true in terms of work on unique or unusual specimens, like NWA 7034, which are more plentiful in hot desert collections. But when most scientists want to do systematic studies, the first stops are still very likely to be collections of observed falls and Antarctic meteorites. So I guess it boils down to the meaning of best. For collectors, it's no contest, since you cannot privately own most Antarctics. For Science, with a capital S, Antarctics have generally been best, although some like Carl, are doing great work on special hot desert finds. My take. Jeff On 10/9/2013 5:29 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: Interesting, Statistics are wonderful when using two different weather grading systems with a limited sampling. I will state that some fantastic meteorites have come out of Antarctica and have certainly been managed better for the most part than their NWA counterparts. On the other hand, by rarity, weight and numbers, NWA is by far in the lead. In the long run, I have always been of the opinion that it doesn't matter where a meteorite lands just so long as ponderable pieces are recovered. The yield of meteorites with great scientific importance has trended greatly towards NWA the last decade. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) Weathering rates for New Mexico, Sahara, and Antarctica: http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1993Metic..28Q.460W * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: It is myth that Antarctic meteorites are less weathered. They weather differently is all. I have been in the Antarctic Laboratory and can tell that most of the inventory is not free of rusticles and evaporation deposits. After all, Antarctica gets its weather right of the salt water ocean. It seems only the best looking material is ever put on public display. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2013 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica) Hi Mike, Add to that list NWA 7731 (L3.00). Semarkona (LL3.00) may still be King, but 7731 is certainly a Prince! The only thing that Antarctic finds have going for them is that weathering is much slower there than in North Africa, so fresher material in general. But if I look at the ANSMET annual yield of exceptional meteorites it is paltry compared to NWA. For planetaries over the past ten years or so, NWA is definitely King! Carl * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam and List, Not taking into account old Saharan meteorites (like Nakhla and Tatahouine), here is a list of some recent meteorites from the Sahara that hold significant scientific and/or collector interest : Black Beauty (NWA 7034) Tissint Jbilet Winselwan NWA 5000 NWA 998 Almahata Sitta NWA 4301 Zag Gebel Kamil Too many Vestans to list. I threw together this list on the fly and in an arbitrary fashion. The true number of Saharan meteorites valuable to science is subject to interpretation, but it surely numbers in the many hundreds. Granted, many NWA's are weathered and redundant, highly-equilibrated, ordinary chondrites. But, many Antarctics are sub-gram fragments of paired finds. So I think the signal-to-noise ratio of NWA's versus Antarctics is about even. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- - Web
Re: [meteorite-list] Exploring the Solar System in Antarctica (NWA vs Antarctica)
I will not debate the legacy of Antarctic meteorites. They have had a wonderful history and their contribution to science has been invaluable. Most researchers are sample oriented and are not biased by find location but there are still a few that cling to legacy. Antarctica had a a two decade plus head start in the abstract/paper queue so naturally there are more documents. Ten years ago, maybe one in ten papers were on hot desert finds. Now, I estimate about 50%. At this rate, as very important samples from NWA and other deserts enter the queue, it will not be long before these finds handily overtake Antarctica by a wide margin in the business of science. In other words; There is not enough material coming out of Antarctica anymore to reverse the current trend which favors the hot desert meteorites for research material in the future. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
