[meteorite-list] Greensburg Kansas Anniversary
Ladies and Gentlemen, Lest we forget that one year ago, a tornado ripped through Greensburg, Kansas, destroying most of it. Many of the members of this list contributed and worked the effort to donate to the reconstruction of the town. For those who might be interested, the Discovery Channel is hosting a 60 minute program on May 03, at 8:00 pm titled Blown Away: Greensburg, Kansas. The program will be shown again on May 04, at 12:00 am. Steve Arnold #1 or Geoff Notkin... I'm interesteed in how Greensburg has progressed these past 12 months. Would you or anyone else on the list be able to provide and update? Regards, Dave __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Greensburg Kansas Anniversary
Hello Dave and All, Thanks for the post. As many of you know, my house in Greensburg was destroyed by the tornado one year ago tomorrow. Well, technically, it wasn't totally destroyed then, but by the time the city came along and bulldozed it without my permission it was then totally destroyed. But it is now usually easier to just say my house was destroyed by the tornado. I have been told that the Kansas media had decided to censor themselves and they agreed not to write anything negative about the rebuilding of Greensburg as their way to help the town have the best shot at getting back on its feet. So, most everything I have read has been quite positive. The town does have some major challenges. It all goes back to that pesky Supply and Demand equation. It is translated here to the challenge of: The city needs people living there for businesses to be able to come back, but the city needs businesses there for people to want to move back. A bit of a Catch 22. Greensburg is the county seat of Kiowa county, so part of it had to be rebuilt, even if no one wanted to live there. But it does seem there are some people that do want to live there. One year ago today, there were a LOT of homes in Greensburg with For Sale Signs in their front yards. Some of those homes had been on the market for a long time, as buyers were not plentiful. So it was no surprise when so many people met with their insurance adjustors, standing in their yard with a big fat check in their hands, they decided to take their checks and move elsewhere with their money. Many of these people were older, and the choice to live in a town or city with better medical facilities was a decision most of these people faced regularly with or without EF-5 help. As a farm community two hours outside of Wichita, and an hour east of Dodge City, it is too far for most business and industry to want to consider building there. I think I read that there was 1,000 homes there before the tornado and there have been around 136 new building permits issued this year. Most people still staying in town are living in FEMAville the huge mobile home park set up with FEMA supplied white mobile homes. I am not sure how long people can stay in them. For many, they can't afford to rebuild, but they have no where else to go. Without a job, it is hard for some to want to rebuild. But there are some people that don't want to leave either. I did hear from a local friend that it was determined that it cost 20% MORE to rebuild in Greensburg than it did anywhere else in Kansas. The primary reason was that the construction workers have to commute often from and back to Dodge City every day to stay in their hotels. Top that with the need for construction workers to return to their homes (wherever that might be) on the weekends. Without a construction workforce living in the town, like all other towns have, it is just more expensive to build. Then, real estate prices have a trend to go DOWN in value in western Kansas anyway. I'm not sure, but I think about the cheapest home that could be built would be around $125,000, with most probably being between $150,000 and $250,000. Well, how many Minimum wage workers can pay a mortgage or rent on that nice of a home? With no low cost options, much of the work force is prices out of living there. I don't mean to sound to negative. The attempt here is to be maybe a bit more realistic. I think there was a strong desire for people to want to make the town the way it was before. But the reality is, if even half of the old residents returned, and the full population grew back with new residents and 99% of the buildings in town are rebuilt, there is NO WAY they can even start to get it the way it was before. And everyone there realizes that. And no one is really trying to make it the way it was before. Greensburg, with the people who are choosing to rebuild is an ongoing story of courage and struggle. Many people have chosen to fight their personal battles of courage and struggle in other places, and to not come back. Some older people moved strait into rest homes in other nearby and not so nearby towns. Most kids graduating from Greensburg High School go off to college, and few would return home even back when they had a home to return to. As a kid who grew up in Kansas, I know first hand how most kids can't wait to get the hell out of Dodge and to go experience the excitement that the real world has to offer. Maybe community pride is stronger now in Greensburg, and I think many of the kids leaving will seriously consider moving back. But if I had to bet, even after serious consideration, most won't. There is a big world out there, a world with fast food restaurants, and shopping malls, and jobs, and other people. All things, that in comparison, Greensburg in the
Re: [meteorite-list] Greensburg Kansas Anniversary
Steve, Thank you very much for taking the time to provide such a deeply personal, heart-felt, and insightful reply. I went through a wide range of emotions while reading your post. On one extreme, feeling happy and proud for the people staying to rebuild Greensburg and on the other end of the spectrum, sad at the historical and cultural losses incurred by the populace. Your post is a great testamonial to the town and people of Greensburg. I for one will continue to keep the town and inhabitants of Greensburg in my prayers. Regards, Dave - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Greensburg Kansas Anniversary Hello Dave and All, Thanks for the post. As many of you know, my house in Greensburg was destroyed by the tornado one year ago tomorrow. Well, technically, it wasn't totally destroyed then, but by the time the city came along and bulldozed it without my permission it was then totally destroyed. But it is now usually easier to just say my house was destroyed by the tornado. I have been told that the Kansas media had decided to censor themselves and they agreed not to write anything negative about the rebuilding of Greensburg as their way to help the town have the best shot at getting back on its feet. So, most everything I have read has been quite positive. The town does have some major challenges. It all goes back to that pesky Supply and Demand equation. It is translated here to the challenge of: The city needs people living there for businesses to be able to come back, but the city needs businesses there for people to want to move back. A bit of a Catch 22. Greensburg is the county seat of Kiowa county, so part of it had to be rebuilt, even if no one wanted to live there. But it does seem there are some people that do want to live there. One year ago today, there were a LOT of homes in Greensburg with For Sale Signs in their front yards. Some of those homes had been on the market for a long time, as buyers were not plentiful. So it was no surprise when so many people met with their insurance adjustors, standing in their yard with a big fat check in their hands, they decided to take their checks and move elsewhere with their money. Many of these people were older, and the choice to live in a town or city with better medical facilities was a decision most of these people faced regularly with or without EF-5 help. As a farm community two hours outside of Wichita, and an hour east of Dodge City, it is too far for most business and industry to want to consider building there. I think I read that there was 1,000 homes there before the tornado and there have been around 136 new building permits issued this year. Most people still staying in town are living in FEMAville the huge mobile home park set up with FEMA supplied white mobile homes. I am not sure how long people can stay in them. For many, they can't afford to rebuild, but they have no where else to go. Without a job, it is hard for some to want to rebuild. But there are some people that don't want to leave either. I did hear from a local friend that it was determined that it cost 20% MORE to rebuild in Greensburg than it did anywhere else in Kansas. The primary reason was that the construction workers have to commute often from and back to Dodge City every day to stay in their hotels. Top that with the need for construction workers to return to their homes (wherever that might be) on the weekends. Without a construction workforce living in the town, like all other towns have, it is just more expensive to build. Then, real estate prices have a trend to go DOWN in value in western Kansas anyway. I'm not sure, but I think about the cheapest home that could be built would be around $125,000, with most probably being between $150,000 and $250,000. Well, how many Minimum wage workers can pay a mortgage or rent on that nice of a home? With no low cost options, much of the work force is prices out of living there. I don't mean to sound to negative. The attempt here is to be maybe a bit more realistic. I think there was a strong desire for people to want to make the town the way it was before. But the reality is, if even half of the old residents returned, and the full population grew back with new residents and 99% of the buildings in town are rebuilt, there is NO WAY they can even start to get it the way it was before. And everyone there realizes that. And no one is really trying to make it the way it was before. Greensburg, with the people who are choosing to rebuild is an ongoing story of courage and struggle. Many people have chosen to fight their personal battles of courage and struggle in other places, and to not come back. Some older people moved strait
[meteorite-list] Greensburg Kansas
Think about this one, One days money pissed away in Iraq would rebuild every building/home/landscaping/ everything else imaginable in Greensburg Kansas. One day, hell, likely a few hours of that money, spent every minute of every day for the last 5 years. Makes you sick doesnt it? And if it doesnt, you need a brain transplant. All of Europe and the Pacific was liberated in less time for less money. Someone is getting very rich, and it ain't the Iraqi people. Michael Farmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Greensburg Kansas Anniversary
Dave, Thanks for the comments. I think what makes this extra tough is that there is no real right way to rebuild. Mike mentioned the money being spent in the war in Iraq, and how it could rebuild Greensburg in a few minutes. His comment is true as a political statement. However, some might argue that building a town back to the way it was, even IF our country had the money AND desire to do so, would not be a smart thing. Most of the challenges that Greensburg is facing is due to people and businesses taking many tens of millions of dollars worth of insurance money, FEMA funds and charity, and leaving Greensburg to rebuild their lives and businesses elsewhere. Simply spending government money to rebuild everyone's house and all the businesses exactly like they were before the tornado (including all the For Sale signs that were in people's yards that got blown away) probably is not the best solution. If it was the best solution, that would have been the easy thing to do, and it probably would have been done. Events happen in every city in the world, every day, to give citizens reason to consider making personal choices. Greensburg just had a particular event happen one year ago to everyone all at the same time. It is easy to want to have compassion on a city. But the City of Greensburg is not a person, it is a corporation. Is it really bad if someone takes their insurance money, then moves to Kansas City and lives happily ever after? Well, the politically correct answer might be No. It would be better for them to be required to stay in Greensburg rebuild and live miserably ever after. At least that way it would LOOK like Greensburg successfully rebuilt. I have heard that a movie theater company is going to build a 500 seat state of the art movie theater in Greensburg. Now, that is a private donation to the community. Wonderful. But had it been tax payer funds being spent, some might argue that a public library or a better school, or fire trucks or a Museum to House their 1,000 pound meteorite, would be a more wise place to spend the same funds. So again, there is not a simple correct answer that can be provided. With 1,400 residents, there are probably 1,400 different decisions, and undoubtedly, there will be some good ones made and some bad ones made along the way by individuals. The sum of these independent decisions will help paint the picture of what Greensburg will look like in the future. Steve #1 In a message dated 5/3/2008 5:05:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steve, Thank you very much for taking the time to provide such a deeply personal, heart-felt, and insightful reply. I went through a wide range of emotions while reading your post. On one extreme, feeling happy and proud for the people staying to rebuild Greensburg and on the other end of the spectrum, sad at the historical and cultural losses incurred by the populace. Your post is a great testamonial to the town and people of Greensburg. I for one will continue to keep the town and inhabitants of Greensburg in my prayers. Regards, Dave d **Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Greensburg, Kansas meteorite photo?
Dear List, I found a photo in Photo Bucket that appears to be the Greensburg meteorite in the rubble. Can anyone confirm that this is what the photo is? Thank you. Dirk Ross...Tokyo http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/Tshrigle/meteorite.jpg __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Greensburg, Kansas meteorite photo?
On Sun, 20 May 2007 11:18:02 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: I found a photo in Photo Bucket that appears to be the Greensburg meteorite in the rubble. Can anyone confirm that this is what the photo is? Thank you. http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/Tshrigle/meteorite.jpg Yep. http://www.news1130.com/news/international/article.jsp?content=w050765A http://www.kansas.com/233/story/63810.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Greensburg Kansas charity auction ends in 30 minutes!
Ok, we are only 30 minutes away from the end of the charity auction of Campo del Cielo coin #2/1000. Please bid some more, 100% of this procedes from this sale go directly to the town of Greensburg, which you all know was completely destroyed a week ago by the terrible tornado. They really need the help now. See the coin here, and please, bid high as this is #2 or 1000, it will be worth plenty years down the road from now. http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ130111876530 Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Greensburg, Kansas Update 05-07-07
Mark, those are fantastic pictures, and you did a great job of chronicling them for us. I really felt like I was right there with Steve as he looked through the debris. Thank you for sharing. Suzi MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, First, I would like to thank those that have contributed to the joint effort fund raiser currently undergoing. Many of my fellow dealers have yet to chime in, and while I understand the fund raiser is still in it's first footsteps, I hope we hear from you soon. I am tiredit is past 3:30 a.m., and I have yet to take in everything from the last day, but as you know the saying Time and tide waits on no man. In case the hopefully linked photos do not seem workdue to length, you can check out the images in my photobucket gallery. http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/ Today was the first day they let residents back into Greensburg since the tornado Friday. In many ways, this was day one of recovery. Greensburg resident and world famous meteorite hunter, Steve Brenham Arnold arrived in town around 5 p.m., just a hour before the 6 p.m. curfew. This was only accomplished by making great time into Kansas from his home in Arkansas. Steve brought with him into Kiowa County, his youngest daughter Kelsey, and a certain person from Wichita, Kansas. (That would be me.) After making our way through a couple road stops, as they were directing traffic completely around the town, we arrived at the real road stop, complete with a dozen armed National Guardsmen...and a couple attack helicopters peacefully setting in the background. I was using Steve's camcorder on the scene while the only Guardsman talking wrote on our windshield the address we were going to, and the number of occupants in the yellow Hummer in some type of neon green marker. We were given directions to only go to the resident. Steve's house was in the least hit part of town, which before we arrived was a relief to him. The thought of freely renting the place out to someone in need, disappeared when we arrived. The previous days, rescue workers had sanctioned off the town, and marked the searched homes with paint.Steve got this marking... And a neat little orange paper... The Living Room The Kitchen The Laundry Room Master Bedroom. If someone would have been in this room they would have lived. Perhaps cut a little by flying glass, but alive. The Kids Bedroom was in the best shape in the house, notice the air mattress still inflated. Photos of Steve searching through the roof, ceiling and insultation mixture, not a 6-8 sludge over everything. Neighbors of Steve And around town photos. After curfew went into effect we left town, but not before a very quick drive around, as many of the other citizens were also doing at the time. The police, from all cities and counties in the lower portion of Kansas, didn't seem to mind and were quite understanding of the town's citizens needing to see for themselves. To give a good ideal of the damage, the following photographs were taken with my camera, while I was using the camcorderstanding through the roof of Steve's hummer, while we quickly went around what use to be downtown Greensburg. Meaning, places were not cherry picked for damage, I didn't even use more then a half thought to choose a target and many times didn't even really aim at anything.it was simply like this everywhere. A few scenes from Haviland Clear Skies, Mark Bostick Wichita, Kansas __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list - Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Greensburg, Kansas Update 05-07-07
Hello everyone, First, I would like to thank those that have contributed to the joint effort fund raiser currently undergoing. Many of my fellow dealers have yet to chime in, and while I understand the fund raiser is still in it's first footsteps, I hope we hear from you soon. I am tiredit is past 3:30 a.m., and I have yet to take in everything from the last day, but as you know the saying Time and tide waits on no man. In case the hopefully linked photos do not seem workdue to length, you can check out the images in my photobucket gallery. http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/ Today was the first day they let residents back into Greensburg since the tornado Friday. In many ways, this was day one of recovery. Greensburg resident and world famous meteorite hunter, Steve Brenham Arnold arrived in town around 5 p.m., just a hour before the 6 p.m. curfew. This was only accomplished by making great time into Kansas from his home in Arkansas. Steve brought with him into Kiowa County, his youngest daughter Kelsey, and a certain person from Wichita, Kansas. (That would be me.) After making our way through a couple road stops, as they were directing traffic completely around the town, we arrived at the real road stop, complete with a dozen armed National Guardsmen...and a couple attack helicopters peacefully setting in the background. I was using Steve's camcorder on the scene while the only Guardsman talking wrote on our windshield the address we were going to, and the number of occupants in the yellow Hummer in some type of neon green marker. We were given directions to only go to the resident. http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg001a.jpg Steve's house was in the least hit part of town, which before we arrived was a relief to him. The thought of freely renting the place out to someone in need, disappeared when we arrived. http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg002a.jpg The previous days, rescue workers had sanctioned off the town, and marked the searched homes with paint.Steve got this marking... http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg003a.jpg And a neat little orange paper... http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg004a.jpg The Living Room http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg005a.jpg The Kitchen http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg006a.jpg The Laundry Room http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg007a.jpg Master Bedroom. If someone would have been in this room they would have lived. Perhaps cut a little by flying glass, but alive. http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg008a.jpg The Kids Bedroom was in the best shape in the house, notice the air mattress still inflated. http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg009a.jpg Photos of Steve searching through the roof, ceiling and insultation mixture, not a 6-8 sludge over everything. http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg011a.jpg http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg012a.jpg http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg013a.jpg http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg014a.jpg http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg015a.jpg http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg016a.jpg Neighbors of Steve http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg017a.jpg http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg018a.jpg http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/ksmeteoriteguy/2007%20Greensburg%20Tornado%20Damage/Greensburg019a.jpg And around town photos. After curfew went into effect we left town, but not before a very quick drive around, as many of the other citizens were also doing at the time. The police, from all cities and counties in the lower portion of Kansas, didn't seem to mind and were quite understanding of the town's citizens needing to see for themselves. To give a good ideal of the damage, the following photographs were taken with my camera, while I was using the camcorderstanding through the roof of Steve's hummer, while we quickly went
[meteorite-list] Greensburg, Kansas Update
Hello all, Greensburg was closed off from it's residents again today, while workers started the process of cleaning up and continued the search for bodies. The weather did not let up, raining hail on the rescue workers. The residents were told they would be able to enter the town today but officials changed their mind because of debris spread about during last night's storm. To enter the town tomorrow you must have proof of ownership, although others can come with you. This may be why the meteorite is lost, no one has been allowed to find it where Steve noted it may be, on the flooralthough I have not heard that the meteorite is missing on KAKE, despite perhaps 40 hrs. of local news coverage. The rain has been a problem and another storm is forming and coming up from Oklahoma. Kansas is starting to have some flooding problems, which if there is a bright side to that, I do not think Greensburg is in any trouble in that regard. I am confident we will rebuild Greensburg. Mark Bostick Wichita, Kansas __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Greensburg, Kansas.....continued
Hello all, Back from mail and running out the door. I will try to answer personal e-mails later. The media is now doing a good job with information, so I will leave that to them now. Looking at starting a fund raiser, raffle or something right now with fellow list members, stay tuned for more information. Greensburg was one of the small friendly Kansas towns, were the people wave at strangers and the business windows are littered with shoe polish promoting the local high school football team game. I can't quite image all of this. Hoping for the best for the town and it's community. I thank you for your concern, and am thankful you were not there Steve, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
