Re: [meteorite-list] Identification of 2 historical meteorites from S America
Arnaud, According to Bob Haag's "Field Guide Of Meteorites" in both the 10th and 12th editions Bob lists the number 1 meteorite as Atacama, North Chile and says it is a Hexaheddrite. Based on this info and Bob's vast amount of experience. If I wanted a piece of Atacama , I would be looking for a piece of North Chile. And it looks like the pictures you show as well. Carl Meteoritemax -- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote". zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr wrote: > Hi Arnaud, > > "Atacama" is the current synonym of Imilac (London NHM Catalog- Grady et al). > > See: > > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=12025 > > Look at the end of the writeup for all other synonyms of Imilac. > "Perou" is not mentioned...(see below) > > Note that Copiapo is another meteorite having the same synonym "Atacama". > > See, e.g.: G. Watson, 1938: > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1077155/pdf/pnas01800-0010.pdf > > However, Copiapo is an IAB iron (silicated) and its recognized synonym > is rather "Atacama Desert" or "Desert of Atacama" (Grady, op. cit.). > Also, Copiapo (20 kg chunk) was discovered in 1863 (thus after 1842 > but before 1866) > > For other Imilac synonym possibilities and variants, see: > > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php > > On your picture 1, the three iron samples as shown neither resemble a > pallasite in general nor imilac in particular. But you should better > know, by perhaps better examining these specimans and/or searching for > some olivine remanents. > > Now against "Imilac" is the analysis repoprted by Wasson (THE world > iron meteorite specialist): Fe: 90%; Ni: 9.9%; Ga: 21.1 ppm; Ge: 46 > ppm and Ir: 0.071 ppm (and NO chromium mentioned) which is definitely > different from the analysis you are mentioning (Turner) > > Regarding "Perou", this name was never reported for Imilac, though the > 3 pictures you show in link 2 are by all means Imilac (very typical!). > > I tried to find out a meteorite having as synonym "Perou" (or Pérou, > or Peru...) but failed (would need more time and patience) > > In conclusion, after this 15-20 min searching the literature I have > here on hand (Mulhouse), it seems that the "Perou" (link 2) is most > probably Imilac (but only from visual comparison) while the "Atacama" > (link 1), although official synonym of Imilac, neither corresponds > from pics comparison (though your pics are not fully clear as prints), > nor regarding its Ni analysis > > I hope this helps to promote to some extent the "schmilblick" > > Bonne chance > > Zelimir > > (Note: after writing this, I noticed a few other replies. Seems link > N°2 is well confirmed as Imilac. However, part of the mystery remains > ragarding samples from link 1 ) > > > r...@free.fr a écrit : > > > > > Hi List, > > > > I've been following the list for about a year now and this is my > > first post. I > > must say I've learned a lot from you even, sometimes, in the middle > > of an heated > > discussion. Meteorites definitely bring a lot of passions. > > > > I'm a geologist, French and I live in Toulouse, a busy city of SW > > France -Airbus > > main factory and office are here- but where people know how to > > relax. Toulouse > > is also where the oldest western academy was founded, the "Academy > > of the Floral > > Games" or "College of the Happy Science", in 1323! > > > > I'm pursuing some historical researches about meteorites. I've collaborated > > off-list with Mark Grossman (hello Mark!) on several issues -check his > > "meteorite manuscripts" blog if you haven't already. Aside from my > > main study, > > that I'll present later, I'm doing an history-focused catalogue of the > > meteorites that are kept in Toulouse in 2 collections, University and > > Museum. > > The Natural History Museum is a small but nice one and was entirely > > renovated a > > few years ago. The meteorite collection is also small but we have > > here about a > > half kg of Orgueil (located about 35 km N of Toulouse), two fist-sized > > Ausson > > samples and the unique and 99% complete 14 kg stone of Saint Sauveur > > (EH5) that > > fell a few days before the onset of WW1, in 1914, 15 km N of Toulouse: > > http://www.museum.toulouse.fr/explorer_3/les_collections_20/roches_mineraux_80/meteorites_424/chondrite_enstatite_426/index.html?lang=fr > > > > We have some trouble to identify 2 meteorites from the Museum, that's why > > I'm > > calling for help. Many of you have seen lots of meteorites and you may > > specifically recognize these stones before or have information that > > may lead to > > their identification. I give below all the information I have (be > > careful, some > > may be erroneous) and links to pictures. > > > > #1: so calle
Re: [meteorite-list] Identification of 2 historical meteorites from S America
Hi Carl, "Atacama" is not mentioned as synonym for "North Chile" in the MetBull database: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=north+chile&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&valids=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&rect=&phot=&snew=0&pnt=Normal%20table&code=17001 But I did not search elsewhere, nor I have on hand Haag's calatogs. On the other hand, Arnaud is mentioning ther the 3 unknown samples were acquired by the Toulouse museum "certainly before 1866" while "North Chile was reported to have been found in 1875 It could be interesting to look for the Ni % in North Chile, just in case... Zelimir cdtuc...@cox.net a écrit : Arnaud, According to Bob Haag's "Field Guide Of Meteorites" in both the 10th and 12th editions Bob lists the number 1 meteorite as Atacama, North Chile and says it is a Hexaheddrite. Based on this info and Bob's vast amount of experience. If I wanted a piece of Atacama , I would be looking for a piece of North Chile. And it looks like the pictures you show as well. Carl Meteoritemax -- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote". zelimir.gabel...@uha.fr wrote: Hi Arnaud, "Atacama" is the current synonym of Imilac (London NHM Catalog- Grady et al). See: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=12025 Look at the end of the writeup for all other synonyms of Imilac. "Perou" is not mentioned...(see below) Note that Copiapo is another meteorite having the same synonym "Atacama". See, e.g.: G. Watson, 1938: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1077155/pdf/pnas01800-0010.pdf However, Copiapo is an IAB iron (silicated) and its recognized synonym is rather "Atacama Desert" or "Desert of Atacama" (Grady, op. cit.). Also, Copiapo (20 kg chunk) was discovered in 1863 (thus after 1842 but before 1866) For other Imilac synonym possibilities and variants, see: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php On your picture 1, the three iron samples as shown neither resemble a pallasite in general nor imilac in particular. But you should better know, by perhaps better examining these specimans and/or searching for some olivine remanents. Now against "Imilac" is the analysis repoprted by Wasson (THE world iron meteorite specialist): Fe: 90%; Ni: 9.9%; Ga: 21.1 ppm; Ge: 46 ppm and Ir: 0.071 ppm (and NO chromium mentioned) which is definitely different from the analysis you are mentioning (Turner) Regarding "Perou", this name was never reported for Imilac, though the 3 pictures you show in link 2 are by all means Imilac (very typical!). I tried to find out a meteorite having as synonym "Perou" (or Pérou, or Peru...) but failed (would need more time and patience) In conclusion, after this 15-20 min searching the literature I have here on hand (Mulhouse), it seems that the "Perou" (link 2) is most probably Imilac (but only from visual comparison) while the "Atacama" (link 1), although official synonym of Imilac, neither corresponds from pics comparison (though your pics are not fully clear as prints), nor regarding its Ni analysis I hope this helps to promote to some extent the "schmilblick" Bonne chance Zelimir (Note: after writing this, I noticed a few other replies. Seems link N°2 is well confirmed as Imilac. However, part of the mystery remains ragarding samples from link 1 ) r...@free.fr a écrit : > > Hi List, > > I've been following the list for about a year now and this is my > first post. I > must say I've learned a lot from you even, sometimes, in the middle > of an heated > discussion. Meteorites definitely bring a lot of passions. > > I'm a geologist, French and I live in Toulouse, a busy city of SW > France -Airbus > main factory and office are here- but where people know how to > relax. Toulouse > is also where the oldest western academy was founded, the "Academy > of the Floral > Games" or "College of the Happy Science", in 1323! > > I'm pursuing some historical researches about meteorites. I've collaborated > off-list with Mark Grossman (hello Mark!) on several issues -check his > "meteorite manuscripts" blog if you haven't already. Aside from my > main study, > that I'll present later, I'm doing an history-focused catalogue of the > meteorites that are kept in Toulouse in 2 collections, University and Museum. > The Natural History Museum is a small but nice one and was entirely > renovated a > few years ago. The meteorite collection is also small but we have > here about a > half kg of Orgueil (located about 35 km N of Toulouse), two fist-sized Ausson > samples and the unique and 99% complete 14 kg stone of Saint Sauveur > (EH5) that > fell a few days before the onset of WW1, in 1914, 15 km N of Toulouse: > http://www.museum.toulouse.fr/explorer_3/les_collections_20/roches_mineraux_80/meteorites_424/chondrite_enstatite_426/index.html?lang=fr >
Re: [meteorite-list] Identification of 2 historical meteorites from S America
Hi Arnaud, "Atacama" is the current synonym of Imilac (London NHM Catalog- Grady et al). See: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=12025 Look at the end of the writeup for all other synonyms of Imilac. "Perou" is not mentioned...(see below) Note that Copiapo is another meteorite having the same synonym "Atacama". See, e.g.: G. Watson, 1938: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1077155/pdf/pnas01800-0010.pdf However, Copiapo is an IAB iron (silicated) and its recognized synonym is rather "Atacama Desert" or "Desert of Atacama" (Grady, op. cit.). Also, Copiapo (20 kg chunk) was discovered in 1863 (thus after 1842 but before 1866) For other Imilac synonym possibilities and variants, see: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php On your picture 1, the three iron samples as shown neither resemble a pallasite in general nor imilac in particular. But you should better know, by perhaps better examining these specimans and/or searching for some olivine remanents. Now against "Imilac" is the analysis repoprted by Wasson (THE world iron meteorite specialist): Fe: 90%; Ni: 9.9%; Ga: 21.1 ppm; Ge: 46 ppm and Ir: 0.071 ppm (and NO chromium mentioned) which is definitely different from the analysis you are mentioning (Turner) Regarding "Perou", this name was never reported for Imilac, though the 3 pictures you show in link 2 are by all means Imilac (very typical!). I tried to find out a meteorite having as synonym "Perou" (or Pérou, or Peru...) but failed (would need more time and patience) In conclusion, after this 15-20 min searching the literature I have here on hand (Mulhouse), it seems that the "Perou" (link 2) is most probably Imilac (but only from visual comparison) while the "Atacama" (link 1), although official synonym of Imilac, neither corresponds from pics comparison (though your pics are not fully clear as prints), nor regarding its Ni analysis I hope this helps to promote to some extent the "schmilblick" Bonne chance Zelimir (Note: after writing this, I noticed a few other replies. Seems link N°2 is well confirmed as Imilac. However, part of the mystery remains ragarding samples from link 1 ) r...@free.fr a écrit : Hi List, I've been following the list for about a year now and this is my first post. I must say I've learned a lot from you even, sometimes, in the middle of an heated discussion. Meteorites definitely bring a lot of passions. I'm a geologist, French and I live in Toulouse, a busy city of SW France -Airbus main factory and office are here- but where people know how to relax. Toulouse is also where the oldest western academy was founded, the "Academy of the Floral Games" or "College of the Happy Science", in 1323! I'm pursuing some historical researches about meteorites. I've collaborated off-list with Mark Grossman (hello Mark!) on several issues -check his "meteorite manuscripts" blog if you haven't already. Aside from my main study, that I'll present later, I'm doing an history-focused catalogue of the meteorites that are kept in Toulouse in 2 collections, University and Museum. The Natural History Museum is a small but nice one and was entirely renovated a few years ago. The meteorite collection is also small but we have here about a half kg of Orgueil (located about 35 km N of Toulouse), two fist-sized Ausson samples and the unique and 99% complete 14 kg stone of Saint Sauveur (EH5) that fell a few days before the onset of WW1, in 1914, 15 km N of Toulouse: http://www.museum.toulouse.fr/explorer_3/les_collections_20/roches_mineraux_80/meteorites_424/chondrite_enstatite_426/index.html?lang=fr We have some trouble to identify 2 meteorites from the Museum, that's why I'm calling for help. Many of you have seen lots of meteorites and you may specifically recognize these stones before or have information that may lead to their identification. I give below all the information I have (be careful, some may be erroneous) and links to pictures. #1: so called "Atacama", sometimes with "Perou" attached 3 irons, 8,5+1,7+0,5 g acquired by the Museum possibly before 1842, certainly before 1866 "Fragment of the mass kept in Vienna. Analyzed by Turner: Fe 93,40, Ni 6,62, Cr 0,54" http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/10/09/49/44/atacam10.jpg #2: so called "Perou" 1 iron, possibly a weathered pallassite, 15 g acquired in 1958 or later http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/10/09/49/44/parou10.jpg Hope you can help! Renaud __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://si
Re: [meteorite-list] Identification of 2 historical meteorites from S America
The Atacama is probably this.; http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php It is from North Chile and is a Hexahedrite. The othetr is probably Imilac. Carl Meteoritemax -- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote". r...@free.fr wrote: > > Hi List, > > I've been following the list for about a year now and this is my first post. I > must say I've learned a lot from you even, sometimes, in the middle of an > heated > discussion. Meteorites definitely bring a lot of passions. > > I'm a geologist, French and I live in Toulouse, a busy city of SW France > -Airbus > main factory and office are here- but where people know how to relax. Toulouse > is also where the oldest western academy was founded, the "Academy of the > Floral > Games" or "College of the Happy Science", in 1323! > > I'm pursuing some historical researches about meteorites. I've collaborated > off-list with Mark Grossman (hello Mark!) on several issues -check his > "meteorite manuscripts" blog if you haven't already. Aside from my main study, > that I'll present later, I'm doing an history-focused catalogue of the > meteorites that are kept in Toulouse in 2 collections, University and Museum. > The Natural History Museum is a small but nice one and was entirely renovated > a > few years ago. The meteorite collection is also small but we have here about a > half kg of Orgueil (located about 35 km N of Toulouse), two fist-sized Ausson > samples and the unique and 99% complete 14 kg stone of Saint Sauveur (EH5) > that > fell a few days before the onset of WW1, in 1914, 15 km N of Toulouse: > http://www.museum.toulouse.fr/explorer_3/les_collections_20/roches_mineraux_80/meteorites_424/chondrite_enstatite_426/index.html?lang=fr > > We have some trouble to identify 2 meteorites from the Museum, that's why I'm > calling for help. Many of you have seen lots of meteorites and you may > specifically recognize these stones before or have information that may lead > to > their identification. I give below all the information I have (be careful, > some > may be erroneous) and links to pictures. > > #1: so called "Atacama", sometimes with "Perou" attached > 3 irons, 8,5+1,7+0,5 g > acquired by the Museum possibly before 1842, certainly before 1866 > "Fragment of the mass kept in Vienna. Analyzed by Turner: Fe 93,40, Ni 6,62, > Cr > 0,54" > http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/10/09/49/44/atacam10.jpg > > #2: so called "Perou" > 1 iron, possibly a weathered pallassite, 15 g > acquired in 1958 or later > http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/10/09/49/44/parou10.jpg > > Hope you can help! > > Renaud > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Identification of 2 historical meteorites from S America
Cher Renaud, it's a joy to see your post on the list!! For the "Atacama" sample, you might check to see if Grenville Turner is still active. Contact Drs. Grady or Benedix (who might also be list-members) if you don't have another lead to contact him. Bon courage with the enterprise! Doug -Original Message- From: r...@free.fr To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, Jun 26, 2011 7:14 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Identification of 2 historical meteorites from S America Hi List, I've been following the list for about a year now and this is my first post. I must say I've learned a lot from you even, sometimes, in the middle of an heated discussion. Meteorites definitely bring a lot of passions. I'm a geologist, French and I live in Toulouse, a busy city of SW France -Airbus main factory and office are here- but where people know how to relax. Toulouse is also where the oldest western academy was founded, the "Academy of the Floral Games" or "College of the Happy Science", in 1323! I'm pursuing some historical researches about meteorites. I've collaborated off-list with Mark Grossman (hello Mark!) on several issues -check his "meteorite manuscripts" blog if you haven't already. Aside from my main study, that I'll present later, I'm doing an history-focused catalogue of the meteorites that are kept in Toulouse in 2 collections, University and Museum. The Natural History Museum is a small but nice one and was entirely renovated a few years ago. The meteorite collection is also small but we have here about a half kg of Orgueil (located about 35 km N of Toulouse), two fist-sized Ausson samples and the unique and 99% complete 14 kg stone of Saint Sauveur (EH5) that fell a few days before the onset of WW1, in 1914, 15 km N of Toulouse: http://www.museum.toulouse.fr/explorer_3/les_collections_20/roches_mineraux_80/meteorites_424/chondrite_enstatite_426/index.html?lang=fr We have some trouble to identify 2 meteorites from the Museum, that's why I'm calling for help. Many of you have seen lots of meteorites and you may specifically recognize these stones before or have information that may lead to their identification. I give below all the information I have (be careful, some may be erroneous) and links to pictures. #1: so called "Atacama", sometimes with "Perou" attached 3 irons, 8,5+1,7+0,5 g acquired by the Museum possibly before 1842, certainly before 1866 "Fragment of the mass kept in Vienna. Analyzed by Turner: Fe 93,40, Ni 6,62, Cr 0,54" http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/10/09/49/44/atacam10.jpg #2: so called "Perou" 1 iron, possibly a weathered pallassite, 15 g acquired in 1958 or later http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/10/09/49/44/parou10.jpg Hope you can help! Renaud __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Identification of 2 historical meteorites from S America
Hi List, I've been following the list for about a year now and this is my first post. I must say I've learned a lot from you even, sometimes, in the middle of an heated discussion. Meteorites definitely bring a lot of passions. I'm a geologist, French and I live in Toulouse, a busy city of SW France -Airbus main factory and office are here- but where people know how to relax. Toulouse is also where the oldest western academy was founded, the "Academy of the Floral Games" or "College of the Happy Science", in 1323! I'm pursuing some historical researches about meteorites. I've collaborated off-list with Mark Grossman (hello Mark!) on several issues -check his "meteorite manuscripts" blog if you haven't already. Aside from my main study, that I'll present later, I'm doing an history-focused catalogue of the meteorites that are kept in Toulouse in 2 collections, University and Museum. The Natural History Museum is a small but nice one and was entirely renovated a few years ago. The meteorite collection is also small but we have here about a half kg of Orgueil (located about 35 km N of Toulouse), two fist-sized Ausson samples and the unique and 99% complete 14 kg stone of Saint Sauveur (EH5) that fell a few days before the onset of WW1, in 1914, 15 km N of Toulouse: http://www.museum.toulouse.fr/explorer_3/les_collections_20/roches_mineraux_80/meteorites_424/chondrite_enstatite_426/index.html?lang=fr We have some trouble to identify 2 meteorites from the Museum, that's why I'm calling for help. Many of you have seen lots of meteorites and you may specifically recognize these stones before or have information that may lead to their identification. I give below all the information I have (be careful, some may be erroneous) and links to pictures. #1: so called "Atacama", sometimes with "Perou" attached 3 irons, 8,5+1,7+0,5 g acquired by the Museum possibly before 1842, certainly before 1866 "Fragment of the mass kept in Vienna. Analyzed by Turner: Fe 93,40, Ni 6,62, Cr 0,54" http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/10/09/49/44/atacam10.jpg #2: so called "Perou" 1 iron, possibly a weathered pallassite, 15 g acquired in 1958 or later http://i29.servimg.com/u/f29/10/09/49/44/parou10.jpg Hope you can help! Renaud __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
