Re: [meteorite-list] Man Claims Rockhaven Meteorite Find
Hi there, we shouldn't forget to applaud the Canadians here. While in former times they applied their laws in the strictest possible manner, not using the flexibility the laws allow, they meanwhile have profoundly changed the opus moderandi to a positive and for the generation of new and old meteoritic finds fruitful and fair way. Since then we observed a positive development - Buzzard Coulee, Springwater, Whitecourt... So I think one can say, that Canada acted exemplary, especially for these countries still suffering - regarding the decline or stagnation of the number of new finds or the volume of the tkws of old finds of national meteorites - under too strict legislation. Remark: The Schmitt-paper, at least I wouldn't commend it, as it is tendentious and contains central pieces of information, which were already at the time, when it was written, wrong. Especially the information about these countries are incorrect: New Zealand. Other than given there, meteorites are not defined as antiquities in the 1975/1990 acts. And these acts apply only on meteorites found in New Zealand. (That discrimination is important, as there exist countries, where meteorites in general, not only those found in the country, are subject to regulations and laws). Switzerland. There the finds are not owned by the cantons, but there is the right of preemption by the canton in effect. Denmark, there I heard by pers.comm. that the museum is deciding, whether an object is of unique scientific value and whether it will take the object, giving the deliverer a compensation/reward. If the decision is negative, the finder can keep it and won't need any permits for exportation neither. India, there I have no information, but here on the list was reported a case, where a meteorite was saif to be legally exported. UNESCO 1970, there the interpretation by Schmitt is legally not tenable. Using the technique of distorting omissions Schmitt applies in quoting Art 1, one could manage to give the impression that also farm products like bananas and corn would be defined as moveable cultural heritage too. But more important UNESCO 1970 is an agreement of harmonizing national legislation between states and does not apply to individual legal persons. A ratification of the convention by a country and/or the building of a national permitting agency does not set meteorites under the protection of the convention (which by the way are not mentioned at all in the convention's text). Only if meteorites are explicitly added to the individual national list of moveable heritage, which each ratifying country is obligated to set up, then they become subject to the UNESCO convention. Only a very few single countries of those, which have ratified the convention, did so. E.g. Australia and South Africa. So all in all, Chris, if already half of the essential core information of the paper had been proven wrong, I think it is not directly helpful to use it or to refer to it. It had caused already enough misunderstandings, especially the short form, the abstract of that paper, which was often referred to in media press in past, when there were news about a new fall or a major find. Best, Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Chris Spratt Gesendet: Samstag, 25. Februar 2012 23:15 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Man Claims Rockhaven Meteorite Find I've been questioned on my last post. My self and a fellow collector (also a Canadian) queried about re-exporting a repatriated Canadian meteorite and received this from Richard Herd curator of the National Meteorite Collection in Ottawa. Once Canadian meteorites are repatriated, they become as they always were: cultural property (any mass even a nanogram) and subject to the Cultural Property Export and Import Act (1977); they need a permit to be re-exported regardless of their provenance/collection history. There has been debate about the so-called 35-year rule. Chris. Spratt Victoria, BC Canada __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Man Claims Rockhaven Meteorite Find
Or maybe it's just Buzzard Coulee: Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum --- Man claims meteorite find http://www.thestarphoenix.com/technology/claims+meteorite+find/6207355/story.html A man claims to have found the first known meteorites from a fireball that lit up the sky over Saskatchewan and Alberta Tuesday night. A posting on Kijiji shows two roundish and blackened rocks a man says he found on the side of a highway north of Rockhaven. One of the rocks is listed for sale for an unspecified price and the other rock is shown suspended by a magnet. Now geologists and astronomers who study meteorites are trying to get in touch with the man in an attempt to verify whether the rocks are connected to Tuesday's meteor sighting, which rattled houses as it zoomed over North Battleford. Richard Huziak, a Saskatoon amateur astronomer and member of the Prairie Fireball Network, says the rocks in the picture look like chondrites, which match meteorites found after the Buzzard Coulee meteor crashed in central Saskatchewan in 2008. Several researchers are trying to get in touch with the man - unsuccessfully, so far - in an effort to bring the rocks to the University of Saskatchewan for examination and testing. Until they're presented, it's hard to know what fall they came from, Huziak said. They may well be meteorites, he said, but ones that fell years ago. U of S geologist Mel Stauffer is also trying to get in touch with the man in an effort to check the rocks' authenticity. The photograph he posted on Kijiji looks to be of a meteorite, Stauffer said in an email. University of Calgary geoscientist Alan Hildebrand, who co-ordinates the Canadian Fireball Reporting Centre, said anyone who has found a meteorite and wants to sell it would be wise to have experts identify it first. Some meteorites are more rare - and therefore far more valuable - than others. We have foolproof ways of telling if it's a recent fall or not, Hildebrand added. When contacted by The StarPhoenix, the man behind the Kijiji ad was not willing to have his name or photograph in the paper. Faye Rowat, one of a handful of residents in the tiny settlement of Rockhaven, said there have been a few people out searching the area since Tuesday's fireball. On Friday morning, she was about to head out with some magnets and her two grandsons, the youngest of which was enthused about the chance of coming across a space rock. It's a free gift from the asteroid belt, Huziak said. We can build spaceships for a hundred million dollars and go out and get pieces. Or they can just fall to the Earth and we can pick them up. Each rock tells you a bit more about the origin of the solar system and they all date back to the age of the formation of the Earth, or even before that. Both Huziak and Hildebrand said several new videos have surfaced in the past couple of days that are allowing them to narrow down the location of the so-called strewn field where pieces fell, which they say is likely south of Rockhaven. The hamlet is about 190 kilometres northwest of Saskatoon. Huziak said several explosions are visible in the video footage, suggesting pieces broke off the meteor higher up and may have survived the fall to Earth. Security camera footage from the Corman Air Park shows an intensely bright greenish ball that appears for just a second, hurtling towards the ground, leaving a brief trail of yellow sparks in its wake. Hildebrand said he wants to see more footage of that night from different locations, including cameras that were pointed at the ground and captured flashes of light and objects' shadows. More footage from different angles could help them narrow the crash site down to a dozen square kilometres and would result in a more fruitful meteorite search, he said. We're not there yet. Would-be rock hunters should also know there's an etiquette to abide by. You can legally remove a rock you find on public land, but a meteorite sitting in a farmer's field belongs to him and if you remove it without permission, you are trespassing, Huziak said. On Thursday, one aspiring meteorite hunter put out a call on Lloydminster's Kijiji page looking for Rockhaven-area landowners' permission to search on their property. Will pay for access split 50/50, the post says. Huziak hopes people in the Rockhaven area are keeping an eye out for blackened rocks, which should be easily spotted on frozen ponds and against the backdrop of snow. It's good for everyone to be out looking, because if there's a serendipitous discovery, we all benefit from it, he said. Sadly for meteorite hunters, this weekend's weather outlook is not favourable - a storm warning with five to 10 centimetres of snow, wind gusting to 70 kilometres an hour and poor visibility is forecast for Saturday. -With files from Lana Haight jfre...@thestarphoenix.com © Copyright (c) The
Re: [meteorite-list] Man Claims Rockhaven Meteorite Find
Hi Phil and List, From looking at the photo, the rocks do appear to be genuine meteorites. But, they don't seem fresh enough to be a new fall that is less than two weeks old. Notice the chip in the crust of the larger specimen in the foreground. There appears to be some brownish color from oxidation on the exposed matrix. This could be an older fall, like Buzzard. Or, the exposed matrix oxidized very very quickly - not impossible I guess, given the wet nature of the area. At any rate, anyone considering a purchase of these stones (or any such stones) such remember that even if these specimens are genuine, it is illegal to export them out of Canada without a valid export permit. Export permits for a new fall generally take at least a year. Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 eBay: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle --- On 2/25/12, dorifry dori...@embarqmail.com wrote: Or maybe it's just Buzzard Coulee: Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum --- Man claims meteorite find http://www.thestarphoenix.com/technology/claims+meteorite+find/6207355/story.html A man claims to have found the first known meteorites from a fireball that lit up the sky over Saskatchewan and Alberta Tuesday night. A posting on Kijiji shows two roundish and blackened rocks a man says he found on the side of a highway north of Rockhaven. One of the rocks is listed for sale for an unspecified price and the other rock is shown suspended by a magnet. Now geologists and astronomers who study meteorites are trying to get in touch with the man in an attempt to verify whether the rocks are connected to Tuesday's meteor sighting, which rattled houses as it zoomed over North Battleford. Richard Huziak, a Saskatoon amateur astronomer and member of the Prairie Fireball Network, says the rocks in the picture look like chondrites, which match meteorites found after the Buzzard Coulee meteor crashed in central Saskatchewan in 2008. Several researchers are trying to get in touch with the man - unsuccessfully, so far - in an effort to bring the rocks to the University of Saskatchewan for examination and testing. Until they're presented, it's hard to know what fall they came from, Huziak said. They may well be meteorites, he said, but ones that fell years ago. U of S geologist Mel Stauffer is also trying to get in touch with the man in an effort to check the rocks' authenticity. The photograph he posted on Kijiji looks to be of a meteorite, Stauffer said in an email. University of Calgary geoscientist Alan Hildebrand, who co-ordinates the Canadian Fireball Reporting Centre, said anyone who has found a meteorite and wants to sell it would be wise to have experts identify it first. Some meteorites are more rare - and therefore far more valuable - than others. We have foolproof ways of telling if it's a recent fall or not, Hildebrand added. When contacted by The StarPhoenix, the man behind the Kijiji ad was not willing to have his name or photograph in the paper. Faye Rowat, one of a handful of residents in the tiny settlement of Rockhaven, said there have been a few people out searching the area since Tuesday's fireball. On Friday morning, she was about to head out with some magnets and her two grandsons, the youngest of which was enthused about the chance of coming across a space rock. It's a free gift from the asteroid belt, Huziak said. We can build spaceships for a hundred million dollars and go out and get pieces. Or they can just fall to the Earth and we can pick them up. Each rock tells you a bit more about the origin of the solar system and they all date back to the age of the formation of the Earth, or even before that. Both Huziak and Hildebrand said several new videos have surfaced in the past couple of days that are allowing them to narrow down the location of the so-called strewn field where pieces fell, which they say is likely south of Rockhaven. The hamlet is about 190 kilometres northwest of Saskatoon. Huziak said several explosions are visible in the video footage, suggesting pieces broke off the meteor higher up and may have survived the fall to Earth. Security camera footage from the Corman Air Park shows an intensely bright greenish ball that appears for just a second, hurtling towards the ground, leaving a brief trail of yellow sparks in its wake. Hildebrand said he wants to see more footage of that night from different locations, including cameras that were pointed at the ground and captured flashes of light and objects' shadows. More footage from different angles could help them narrow the crash
Re: [meteorite-list] Man Claims Rockhaven Meteorite Find
Why is an export permit required? Is there some restrictions on rocks there? I have bought gun parts from Canada with no paperwork involved. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Sirius Meteorites http://spacerocks.weebly.com -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 12:14 PM To: dorifry Cc: meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Man Claims Rockhaven Meteorite Find Hi Phil and List, From looking at the photo, the rocks do appear to be genuine meteorites. But, they don't seem fresh enough to be a new fall that is less than two weeks old. Notice the chip in the crust of the larger specimen in the foreground. There appears to be some brownish color from oxidation on the exposed matrix. This could be an older fall, like Buzzard. Or, the exposed matrix oxidized very very quickly - not impossible I guess, given the wet nature of the area. At any rate, anyone considering a purchase of these stones (or any such stones) such remember that even if these specimens are genuine, it is illegal to export them out of Canada without a valid export permit. Export permits for a new fall generally take at least a year. Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 eBay: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle --- On 2/25/12, dorifry dori...@embarqmail.com wrote: Or maybe it's just Buzzard Coulee: Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum --- Man claims meteorite find http://www.thestarphoenix.com/technology/claims+meteorite+find/6207355/story.html A man claims to have found the first known meteorites from a fireball that lit up the sky over Saskatchewan and Alberta Tuesday night. A posting on Kijiji shows two roundish and blackened rocks a man says he found on the side of a highway north of Rockhaven. One of the rocks is listed for sale for an unspecified price and the other rock is shown suspended by a magnet. Now geologists and astronomers who study meteorites are trying to get in touch with the man in an attempt to verify whether the rocks are connected to Tuesday's meteor sighting, which rattled houses as it zoomed over North Battleford. Richard Huziak, a Saskatoon amateur astronomer and member of the Prairie Fireball Network, says the rocks in the picture look like chondrites, which match meteorites found after the Buzzard Coulee meteor crashed in central Saskatchewan in 2008. Several researchers are trying to get in touch with the man - unsuccessfully, so far - in an effort to bring the rocks to the University of Saskatchewan for examination and testing. Until they're presented, it's hard to know what fall they came from, Huziak said. They may well be meteorites, he said, but ones that fell years ago. U of S geologist Mel Stauffer is also trying to get in touch with the man in an effort to check the rocks' authenticity. The photograph he posted on Kijiji looks to be of a meteorite, Stauffer said in an email. University of Calgary geoscientist Alan Hildebrand, who co-ordinates the Canadian Fireball Reporting Centre, said anyone who has found a meteorite and wants to sell it would be wise to have experts identify it first. Some meteorites are more rare - and therefore far more valuable - than others. We have foolproof ways of telling if it's a recent fall or not, Hildebrand added. When contacted by The StarPhoenix, the man behind the Kijiji ad was not willing to have his name or photograph in the paper. Faye Rowat, one of a handful of residents in the tiny settlement of Rockhaven, said there have been a few people out searching the area since Tuesday's fireball. On Friday morning, she was about to head out with some magnets and her two grandsons, the youngest of which was enthused about the chance of coming across a space rock. It's a free gift from the asteroid belt, Huziak said. We can build spaceships for a hundred million dollars and go out and get pieces. Or they can just fall to the Earth and we can pick them up. Each rock tells you a bit more about the origin of the solar system and they all date back to the age of the formation of the Earth, or even before that. Both Huziak and Hildebrand said several new videos have surfaced in the past couple of days that are allowing them to narrow down the location of the so-called strewn field where pieces fell, which they say is likely south of Rockhaven. The hamlet is about 190 kilometres northwest of Saskatoon. Huziak said several explosions are visible in the video footage, suggesting pieces broke off the meteor higher up and may have survived the fall to Earth. Security camera footage from
Re: [meteorite-list] Man Claims Rockhaven Meteorite Find
Stuart, Many countries have restrictions on the exportation of meteorites that they sometime consider National Treasures. And some of those restrictions have been around for a very long time; for instance: India since the 1890s. You should read this : _http://www.impactika.com/schmitt.pdf_ (http://www.impactika.com/schmitt.pdf) It is 11 years old, so not entirely accurate, for instance it does not mention Argentina's ban on the exportation of meteorites. But it is a starting point for further research. Yes, countries have the right to create any laws they please. And yes, like it or not, those are Laws. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 2/25/2012 1:38:03 PM Mountain Standard Time, actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com writes: Why is an export permit required? Is there some restrictions on rocks there? I have bought gun parts from Canada with no paperwork involved. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Sirius Meteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Man Claims Rockhaven Meteorite Find
Thanks Anne, I will give it a read. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Sirius Meteorites http://spacerocks.weebly.com -Original Message- From: impact...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 4:00 PM To: actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com ; dori...@embarqmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Man Claims Rockhaven Meteorite Find Stuart, Many countries have restrictions on the exportation of meteorites that they sometime consider National Treasures. And some of those restrictions have been around for a very long time; for instance: India since the 1890s. You should read this : _http://www.impactika.com/schmitt.pdf_ (http://www.impactika.com/schmitt.pdf) It is 11 years old, so not entirely accurate, for instance it does not mention Argentina's ban on the exportation of meteorites. But it is a starting point for further research. Yes, countries have the right to create any laws they please. And yes, like it or not, those are Laws. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 2/25/2012 1:38:03 PM Mountain Standard Time, actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com writes: Why is an export permit required? Is there some restrictions on rocks there? I have bought gun parts from Canada with no paperwork involved. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Sirius Meteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Man Claims Rockhaven Meteorite Find
The law applies to old Canadian falls and finds as well as newly discovered stuff. So, if I buy an old Dresden (Ontario) H6 (fell 1939) from a US dealer and bring it back into Canada, and then want to resell or trade it to a dealer outside Canada, I will have to apply for a permit from Canada Customs. Lot of paperwork in any case. Waits for clearance can be upwards of several months. The law went into effect in 1977, and also applies to fossils and other perceived cultural items. So even though I'm selling/trading off some of my collection, I'm keeping the Canadian stuff. Chris. Spratt Victoria, BC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Man Claims Rockhaven Meteorite Find
I've been questioned on my last post. My self and a fellow collector (also a Canadian) queried about re-exporting a repatriated Canadian meteorite and received this from Richard Herd curator of the National Meteorite Collection in Ottawa. Once Canadian meteorites are repatriated, they become as they always were: cultural property (any mass even a nanogram) and subject to the Cultural Property Export and Import Act (1977); they need a permit to be re-exported regardless of their provenance/collection history. There has been debate about the so-called 35-year rule. Chris. Spratt Victoria, BC Canada __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
