[meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Hello List, Everytime we talk about Meteorites and morocco, there's someone to tell that Moroccans are not trustworthy, can anyone tell me how? every american/european was rippied off should tell us who stole his money and every moroccan should do the same, this way we'll have a good idea about who is trustworthy and who is NOT, and it also helps to know untrustworthy people to avoid dealling with'm. A few of you knows lots of very interesting facts about Amercans and Moroccans. dealers, collectors and scientists are all in this matter. So, please, any american or european was ripped off by a moroccan, give us the names and how he stole your money, and hopefully we can hear from moroccans. Thanks Aziz __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Hello List, Everytime we talk about Meteorites and morocco, there's someone to tell that Moroccans are not trustworthy, can anyone tell me how? every american/european was rippied off should tell us who stole his money and every moroccan should do the same, this way we'll have a good idea about who is trustworthy and who is NOT, and it also helps to know untrustworthy people to avoid dealling with'm. A few of you knows lots of very interesting facts about Amercans and Moroccans. dealers, collectors and scientists are all in this matter. So, please, any american or european was ripped off by a moroccan, give us the names and how he stole your money, and hopefully we can hear from moroccans. Good point! geozay **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=115bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Aloha Aziz and listees, Rather than bring up the negative, I would like to reinforce the positive. In past transactions, I have had good, trustworthy transactions with Aid Mohamed and Ahmad Bouregaa. gary On May 18, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Abdelaziz Alhyane wrote: Hello List, Everytime we talk about Meteorites and morocco, there's someone to tell that Moroccans are not trustworthy, can anyone tell me how? every american/european was rippied off should tell us who stole his money and every moroccan should do the same, this way we'll have a good idea about who is trustworthy and who is NOT, and it also helps to know untrustworthy people to avoid dealling with'm. A few of you knows lots of very interesting facts about Amercans and Moroccans. dealers, collectors and scientists are all in this matter. So, please, any american or european was ripped off by a moroccan, give us the names and how he stole your money, and hopefully we can hear from moroccans. Thanks Aziz __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fuj...@mac.com http://astroday.net __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the morrocans delears. meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, and later ask them to fallow the rules, thanks habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170/font __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... ROTFLMAO! That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) On 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com wrote: hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the morrocans delears. meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, and later ask them to fallow the rules, thanks habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170/font __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- . Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
ROTFLMAO Ditto. Translation; Roliing of the floor laughing my @ss off. Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... ROTFLMAO! That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) On 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com wrote: hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the morrocans delears. meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, and later ask them to fallow the rules, thanks habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170/font __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- . Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, if that club is only a joke? Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of ethics. So why? If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and maybe important factor in their collectors life. Why the heck then most are eager to join IMCA, if they don't see any advantage for them in it? Obviously something with that IMCA and the labels seems to work. And that can't be directly influenced by the IMCA-members and directors (else than their sedulous conduct and work) cause their must have happened something with the ominous consumer - ugly word, that it turned out to be an advantage for most offerers (or at least in their opininion) to use the IMCA-label. If it would be meaningless, why would the offerers use it then? Of course there are very honourable offerers and dealers too, who do without - not so seldom their reputation and integrity seems to be work alone as well. (Have to say that, only to avoid the always identic discussions). But if one counts, I guess, meanwhile the majority of meteorite offerers ate members of IMCA. It is easy to scoff about something, harder it is to improve a grievance. IMCA was born by the idea of few, who were very discontented about the situation regarding the safety on the meteorite market (especially with the still quite new ebay then) - maybe so discontent like you and others are about IMCA - and felt, that something had to be done. They had the ideas and realized them with their own efforts and if I see the results after those few years only - and I wasn't a member from beginning on - then I have to pay my highest deference to the founders. An opinion only, my opinion Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic Stone Ironworks Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2009 20:58 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... ROTFLMAO! That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) On 5/18/09
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic Stone Ironworks Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2009 20:58 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... ROTFLMAO! That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) On 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com wrote: hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the morrocans delears. meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, and later ask them to fallow the rules, thanks habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170/font __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- . Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
wasn't a member from beginning on - then I have to pay my highest deference to the founders. An opinion only, my opinion Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic Stone Ironworks Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2009 20:58 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... ROTFLMAO! That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) On 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com wrote: hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the morrocans delears. meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, and later ask them to fallow the rules, thanks habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170/font __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- . Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- . Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Carl, This has nothing to do with pricing. Carl, where do you come up with this crap? You do not know me at all otherwise you would not make such stupid comments. I did not complain once about price. I think $1,000.00/gram for a Mare is reasonable if the burden of proof has been satisfied that it is indeed a lunar. I do not own any of this material so I have no personal interest other than having the owner report weights in order to keep the lunar tally as accurate as possible. Greg is reporting the weight and submitting a sample for study so I have no complaint at all. I am pleased that these 11 grams will be incorporated into the tally. He can easily beat my price because I have none to offer. Enough from me on this conversation. Best Regards, Adam --- On Mon, 5/18/09, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 2:22 PM Martin As usual, I agree with everything you said. What I saw here in this thread if you read between the lines are pricing issues and for that IMCA has no control. Adam is complaining once again about somebody else selling paired material and somehow price became an issue. That's all I was referring to. If Greg wants to sell Lunar for less than Adam, what has IMCA to do with this? Carl IMCA 5829 Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, if that club is only a joke? Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of ethics. So why? If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and maybe important factor in their collectors life. Why the heck then most are eager to join IMCA, if they don't see any advantage for them in it? Obviously something with that IMCA and the labels seems to work. And that can't be directly influenced by the IMCA-members and directors (else than their sedulous conduct and work) cause their must have happened something with the ominous consumer - ugly word, that it turned out to be an advantage
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Hi Carl, IMCA has indeed no influence on pricing. And I think, that wouldn't be desirable at all, would it? As most adhere to the ideal of the interplay of forces, while monopolism rarely has advantages for its victims... Hmm sometimes I have the feeling, that a few (still) misunderstand the role of IMCA. IMCA isn't the Vatican of meteoritics, which publishes a catechism and pitilessly prosecutes any breach of anyone on Earth, who is able to form the word meteorite with his lips, Neither to stay at religious metaphors is it the Guardian Council nor invented IMCA a meteoritic sharia. It is certainly somewhat flattering if someones think that IMCA is so mighty, but IMCA is somewhat else. An association of like-mined people, who first and foremost have a common aim: Authenticity, authenticity and authenticity. All members, who join, obligate themselves, that the stones and irons they sell, swap, trade, publish ect. are exactly that, what they claim, that they are. (and that they adhere to a proper business conduct - which for most of them was anyway before already a matter of course.) It is not the job of the IMCA to dictate to a fancy restaurant in Oslo, that the burger there on the menu might be somewhat expensive with 20$, cause the same burger costs at a takeaway in Alabama 99 cents. Important is, that the ingredients are proper. Neither is IMCA responsible for people selling or consuming their burgers topped with strawberry jelly - as long as the beef is the beef - cause that is a question of individual taste. That is the most important objective, IMCA has imposed on itself. Hmm, I read Adam's post different. Cause Greg showed that material first, without naming it, he asked what it is and whether the provenience is alright, because that is an important issue, crucial also for the collector. Greg supplied the provenience, which was confirmed from another side. Case closed, Ted hasn't to analyze or to give a new number, as it is a part of an already known and classified stone. All dealt correct. No misinformation. (no violation of IMCA-rules. Note, that Greg hadn't made any incorrect statements, like e.g. I sell that Moon cheaper than anyone before, that one could rant, if one would be very finicky, cause that material was offered in public to the list 2 years or so ago at 500$ a gram). On price debates I won't say a word. Only that some forget, that dealers, who regularly bring out new material on a fast pace, certainly have different cost-structures and risks, than sellers, who here and there sell minor amounts of known material for fun or to refinance their collection. Professional dealers btw. are sometimes more expensive, sometimes cheaper, sometimes they ask the same... I can't follow intellectually that debate. Who would have the idea, to go to his butcher or baker to insult him, that his food is more expensive than at the big discounter? Who, who has some scissors at home, would dare to go to the barber around the corner to publically insult him? For me that is really weird. And about morality... what shall we discuss about that, with people, who pride themselves, that they bought their preferred dealer their beloved UNWAs at 25$/kg. Deduct from that sum the transportation costs from Morocco, the sales income taxes, the running business costs the dealer has to pay, and then think, what he can pay to his Moroccan suppliers for a price for that stuff - often middlemen by theirselves - and how much of the price finally will reach those, who drudge to make it possible, that we get the stuff at such prices at all in our collections - stuff whereof a kilogram is as rare as a kilogram of brilliants (still talking from UNWA) - in fact in Sahara even rarer than that, if you look at the statistics closer, as counting in for 90% of the mass of all known meteorites are the 20 largest iron finds. So better we should avoid the word morality. And if you take a look on meteorite pricing of the 200 years before, then it is quite strange to impute greed to any involved in meteorites. If a Nininger would have been paid - and he had to fight a lot in his life - at the actual rates, meteorites are going for, he hadn't lifted a finger and America would be now several chapters worse off I his glorious meteorite history. As always, only a personal opinion... Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: cdtuc...@cox.net [mailto:cdtuc...@cox.net] Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2009 23:23 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans Martin As usual, I agree with everything you said. What I saw here in this thread if you read between the lines are pricing issues and for that IMCA has no control. Adam is complaining once again about somebody else selling paired material and somehow price became an issue. That's all I was referring to. If Greg wants to sell Lunar for less than Adam, what has IMCA to do with this? Carl
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Hi Mike, Are you still a member of the IMCA? -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans Martin and List, Well, I just received a veiled death threat from an IMCA member for my last post. I can say in all honesty, that I have done hundreds (if not over a thousand) deals since joining the world of meteorites. Only once did someone attempt to scam me, and it was an IMCA member. IMCA credentials mean zero to me. Martin, you are one of the good guys and you know I respect you. But there are bad apples in the IMCA just like any other large group. Now I am debating whether I am going to contact the authorities over this death threat I just received. I guess I better shut my mouth before the IMCA sends a thug to my house. Best regards, MikeG On 5/18/09, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, if that club is only a joke? Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of ethics. So why? If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and maybe important factor in their collectors life. Why the heck then most are eager to join IMCA, if they don't see any advantage for them in it? Obviously something with that IMCA and the labels seems to work. And that can't be directly influenced by the IMCA-members and directors (else than their sedulous conduct and work) cause their must have happened something with the ominous consumer - ugly word, that it turned out to be an advantage for most offerers (or at least in their opininion) to use the IMCA-label. If it would be meaningless, why would the offerers use it then? Of course there are very honourable offerers and dealers too, who do without - not so seldom their reputation and integrity seems to be work alone as well. (Have to say that, only to avoid the always identic discussions). But if one counts, I guess, meanwhile the majority of meteorite offerers ate members of IMCA. It is easy to scoff about something, harder it is to improve a grievance. IMCA was born by the idea of few, who were very discontented about the situation regarding
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
I would really like for this issue to stop. I had no idea that so much drama would come from me offering samples of this Lunar. All my intentions were was to offer some of this really nice Lunar for a more reasonable price then I have seen it going for. What I have has been confirmed to be NWA 4734, provenance supplied and no testing is needed at this point as it would be redundant and only cost me material and money out of my pocket for nothing more then to back up my statements that have already been confirmed. I think we can consider this issue done. That said, for today only, I will offer this for $900 per gram for anything over 1 gram. Under 1 gram my regular price of $1,000/g still applies. If this is for educational.research use, let me know and we might be able to work something better out. Cant beat an awesome Lunar such as this for that price... If interested, email me for pictures of available material. Hope everyone is having a good day! Greg C. --- On Mon, 5/18/09, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 6:23 PM Carl, This has nothing to do with pricing. Carl, where do you come up with this crap? You do not know me at all otherwise you would not make such stupid comments. I did not complain once about price. I think $1,000.00/gram for a Mare is reasonable if the burden of proof has been satisfied that it is indeed a lunar. I do not own any of this material so I have no personal interest other than having the owner report weights in order to keep the lunar tally as accurate as possible. Greg is reporting the weight and submitting a sample for study so I have no complaint at all. I am pleased that these 11 grams will be incorporated into the tally. He can easily beat my price because I have none to offer. Enough from me on this conversation. Best Regards, Adam --- On Mon, 5/18/09, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 2:22 PM Martin As usual, I agree with everything you said. What I saw here in this thread if you read between the lines are pricing issues and for that IMCA has no control. Adam is complaining once again about somebody else selling paired material and somehow price became an issue. That's all I was referring to. If Greg wants to sell Lunar for less than Adam, what has IMCA to do with this? Carl IMCA 5829 Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Everyone has his opinion, be sure that IMCA isn't obsessed to proselytize all unbelievers, as it isn't the holy or unholy inquisition. As explained it isn't neither a secret guild or sect, which controls the said and unsaid thoughts of their members. I'm only somewhat discontent, that IMCA is often faced with recriminations, but where no bare facts are offered by those, who shoot their mouths (says the dictionary) and these so far unfunded slanderous remarks immediately go on tour as proved facts. Only once did someone attempt to scam me, and it was an IMCA member. Not such a bad score, if you had thousands of transactions... And did you report that sam attempt to IMCA? Well, the complaint section you'll find here, open for everyone: http://imca.cc/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=7Itemid=70 If you feel, that this thread from a IMCA-member your talking about, was exceeding any acceptable way of usual conversation (no idea, how someone use to communicate) - just report it. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic Stone Ironworks Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2009 23:43 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans Martin and List, Well, I just received a veiled death threat from an IMCA member for my last post. I can say in all honesty, that I have done hundreds (if not over a thousand) deals since joining the world of meteorites. Only once did someone attempt to scam me, and it was an IMCA member. IMCA credentials mean zero to me. Martin, you are one of the good guys and you know I respect you. But there are bad apples in the IMCA just like any other large group. Now I am debating whether I am going to contact the authorities over this death threat I just received. I guess I better shut my mouth before the IMCA sends a thug to my house. Best regards, MikeG On 5/18/09, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, if that club is only a joke? Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of ethics. So why? If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and maybe important factor
