[meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Official Announcement NWA 6077 IS PAIRED WITH NWA 5400 North West Africa 6077 Description: An olivine-rich assemblage with cumulate (or possibly metamorphic) texture exhibiting triple junction grain boundaries. Olivine (Fa30.2-30.7), orthopyroxene (Fs24.1-24.5Wo2.1-2.0), clinopyroxene (Fs9.4-10.0Wo44.0-43.5), altered kamacite, chromite, chlorapatite, Ni-bearing troilite and/or pyrrhotite. No plagioclase was found. Analysis conducted at the Carnegie Institution of Washington show that the oxygen isotopic composition of this specimen plots on the Terrestrial Fractionation Line. In conjunction with the mineral compositions and texture, this establishes that NWA 6077 is paired with NWA 5400. The averages of the two Oxygen Isotope Results are: d17O = 2.780, d18O = 5.358, D17O = -0.019 (all in per mil) This brachinite was recovered out of Morocco in 2008 as one whole stone and purchased by John Higgins. It was submitted for classification to Dr. Tony Irving and was given the provisional classification number of NWA 6077. This meteorite has a modest TKW of less than 1000g after the type specimen was removed. Personal Notes: Although I suspected that the two were possibly paired due to similarities in visual observations and classification compositions, I felt it was important to wait for secondary Oxygen Isotope results to come in which have recently confirmed the results beyond a reasonable doubt. There was also another important factor besides Oxygen Isotope testing that had to be taken into account. Orthopyroxene which is present in NWA 5400 was missed the first time around in NWA 6077 because it looks identical to clinopyroxene in back-scattered electron images. However further in-depth microprobe studies of the thin section have confirmed the presence of orthopyroxene, and are now noted in the updated description. I feel that making a self pairing based upon my own visual observations, is not only unethical, inappropriate, and akin to pirating, but would only feed the controversies regarding this meteorite without the scientific testing data to back up such speculation, such action would be premature, immoral and unfair to Greg Hupe and NWA 5400 after all the time and effort he put into the study of what has become one of the most important meteorite finds in history. Have a Great Day! John Higgins IMCA#9822 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
List: This is amazing; is it possible that all of these (NWA 5400, 5363, 6292 and 6077) are from the same strewn field? Greg S. Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 06:26:05 -0700 From: geohigg...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Official Announcement NWA 6077 IS PAIRED WITH NWA 5400 North West Africa 6077 Description: An olivine-rich assemblage with cumulate (or possibly metamorphic) texture exhibiting triple junction grain boundaries. Olivine (Fa30.2-30.7), orthopyroxene (Fs24.1-24.5Wo2.1-2.0), clinopyroxene (Fs9.4-10.0Wo44.0-43.5), altered kamacite, chromite, chlorapatite, Ni-bearing troilite and/or pyrrhotite. No plagioclase was found. Analysis conducted at the Carnegie Institution of Washington show that the oxygen isotopic composition of this specimen plots on the Terrestrial Fractionation Line. In conjunction with the mineral compositions and texture, this establishes that NWA 6077 is paired with NWA 5400. The averages of the two Oxygen Isotope Results are: d17O = 2.780, d18O = 5.358, D17O = -0.019 (all in per mil) This brachinite was recovered out of Morocco in 2008 as one whole stone and purchased by John Higgins. It was submitted for classification to Dr. Tony Irving and was given the provisional classification number of NWA 6077. This meteorite has a modest TKW of less than 1000g after the type specimen was removed. Personal Notes: Although I suspected that the two were possibly paired due to similarities in visual observations and classification compositions, I felt it was important to wait for secondary Oxygen Isotope results to come in which have recently confirmed the results beyond a reasonable doubt. There was also another important factor besides Oxygen Isotope testing that had to be taken into account. Orthopyroxene which is present in NWA 5400 was missed the first time around in NWA 6077 because it looks identical to clinopyroxene in back-scattered electron images. However further in-depth microprobe studies of the thin section have confirmed the presence of orthopyroxene, and are now noted in the updated description. I feel that making a self pairing based upon my own visual observations, is not only unethical, inappropriate, and akin to pirating, but would only feed the controversies regarding this meteorite without the scientific testing data to back up such speculation, such action would be premature, immoral and unfair to Greg Hupe and NWA 5400 after all the time and effort he put into the study of what has become one of the most important meteorite finds in history. Have a Great Day! John Higgins IMCA#9822 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Its great that there is such a nice amount of this material when considering all the pairings... With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. I bet the Brachinties are coming out of the woodwork to be tested. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 9:26 AM Official Announcement NWA 6077 IS PAIRED WITH NWA 5400 North West Africa 6077 Description: An olivine-rich assemblage with cumulate (or possibly metamorphic) texture exhibiting triple junction grain boundaries. Olivine (Fa30.2-30.7), orthopyroxene (Fs24.1-24.5Wo2.1-2.0), clinopyroxene (Fs9.4-10.0Wo44.0-43.5), altered kamacite, chromite, chlorapatite, Ni-bearing troilite and/or pyrrhotite. No plagioclase was found. Analysis conducted at the Carnegie Institution of Washington show that the oxygen isotopic composition of this specimen plots on the Terrestrial Fractionation Line. In conjunction with the mineral compositions and texture, this establishes that NWA 6077 is paired with NWA 5400. The averages of the two Oxygen Isotope Results are: d17O = 2.780, d18O = 5.358, D17O = -0.019 (all in per mil) This brachinite was recovered out of Morocco in 2008 as one whole stone and purchased by John Higgins. It was submitted for classification to Dr. Tony Irving and was given the provisional classification number of NWA 6077. This meteorite has a modest TKW of less than 1000g after the type specimen was removed. Personal Notes: Although I suspected that the two were possibly paired due to similarities in visual observations and classification compositions, I felt it was important to wait for secondary Oxygen Isotope results to come in which have recently confirmed the results beyond a reasonable doubt. There was also another important factor besides Oxygen Isotope testing that had to be taken into account. Orthopyroxene which is present in NWA 5400 was missed the first time around in NWA 6077 because it looks identical to clinopyroxene in back-scattered electron images. However further in-depth microprobe studies of the thin section have confirmed the presence of orthopyroxene, and are now noted in the updated description. I feel that making a self pairing based upon my own visual observations, is not only unethical, inappropriate, and akin to pirating, but would only feed the controversies regarding this meteorite without the scientific testing data to back up such speculation, such action would be premature, immoral and unfair to Greg Hupe and NWA 5400 after all the time and effort he put into the study of what has become one of the most important meteorite finds in history. Have a Great Day! John Higgins IMCA#9822 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Greg Catterton, I would be very cautious with throwing loose words around like considering all the pairings As far as I know NWA 6077 is the only whole stone other than NWA 6292 of which is very fragmented that has conclusively been paired through testing and subsequent testing to NWA 5400, from what I understand most of the others are purely conjecture, or speculative without the extensive testing completed or in various stages of testing... I think our focus should be on the Science and authenticity of claims before you start making bets and psychic predictions about how much more material is paired to this very special and important meteorite. Regardless of what you think, and however hard you try to knock this meteorite for TKW, of what may or may not come to fruition, this meteorite is priceless to Science. I don't understand what the focus on TKW boils down to other than monetary value or jealousy, this meteorite truly transcends price. And I think the focus should be on the science of what this meteorite can teach us about our past. And possibly give us clues to the future. NWA 6077 is a Meteorite that has most likely come from the mantle of a planet, which one? The Oxygen Isotope results suggest one like our own planet Earth. Even if there are 10kg or more, this meteorite is from the mantle of a planet that is similar to our own and comes from a place in time that does not exist anymore. I hope we can, as a community become more productive with our time and focus on figuring out what the meteorite parent body is and what the conditions are that existed when it materialized. I suggest we shift the emphasis to the scientific study rather than putting such a great focus on prematurely rushing TKW statistics, that can only be revealed only after many more years of scientific studies. Regards, John Higgins IMCA# 9822 - Original Message From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 12:01:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Its great that there is such a nice amount of this material when considering all the pairings... With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. I bet the Brachinties are coming out of the woodwork to be tested. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 9:26 AM Official Announcement NWA 6077 IS PAIRED WITH NWA 5400 North West Africa 6077 Description: An olivine-rich assemblage with cumulate (or possibly metamorphic) texture exhibiting triple junction grain boundaries. Olivine (Fa30.2-30.7), orthopyroxene (Fs24.1-24.5Wo2.1-2.0), clinopyroxene (Fs9.4-10.0Wo44.0-43.5), altered kamacite, chromite, chlorapatite, Ni-bearing troilite and/or pyrrhotite. No plagioclase was found. Analysis conducted at the Carnegie Institution of Washington show that the oxygen isotopic composition of this specimen plots on the Terrestrial Fractionation Line. In conjunction with the mineral compositions and texture, this establishes that NWA 6077 is paired with NWA 5400. The averages of the two Oxygen Isotope Results are: d17O = 2.780, d18O = 5.358, D17O = -0.019 (all in per mil) This brachinite was recovered out of Morocco in 2008 as one whole stone and purchased by John Higgins. It was submitted for classification to Dr. Tony Irving and was given the provisional classification number of NWA 6077. This meteorite has a modest TKW of less than 1000g after the type specimen was removed. Personal Notes: Although I suspected that the two were possibly paired due to similarities in visual observations and classification compositions, I felt it was important to wait for secondary Oxygen Isotope results to come in which have recently confirmed the results beyond a reasonable doubt. There was also another important factor besides Oxygen Isotope testing that had to be taken into account. Orthopyroxene which is present in NWA 5400 was missed the first time around in NWA 6077 because it looks identical to clinopyroxene in back-scattered electron images. However further in-depth microprobe studies of the thin section have confirmed the presence of orthopyroxene, and are now noted in the updated description. I feel that making a self pairing based upon my own visual observations, is not only unethical, inappropriate, and akin to pirating, but would only
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Wow... First off, NWA 5363 HAS been confirmed paired, as well as 6292 and yours. I think YOU should check your facts before calling me out like you are. A simple search of the metbul shows the REPORTED TKW of the material and simple math will show you the TKW of material that is in the 5363/5400/6077/6292 pairing group. Please do not publicly accuse me of things when YOU are the one who is not up to date with information and you do not have the facts correct. I have no interests in this material other then as a collector. I am not selling any of the material from any pairings. Why do you feel the need to come at me like you did? There is a nice amount of this available. I expect an apology for your comments as you are out of line and clearly in the wrong. ALL I STATED IS FACTS. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 1:12 PM Greg Catterton, I would be very cautious with throwing loose words around like considering all the pairings As far as I know NWA 6077 is the only whole stone other than NWA 6292 of which is very fragmented that has conclusively been paired through testing and subsequent testing to NWA 5400, from what I understand most of the others are purely conjecture, or speculative without the extensive testing completed or in various stages of testing... I think our focus should be on the Science and authenticity of claims before you start making bets and psychic predictions about how much more material is paired to this very special and important meteorite. Regardless of what you think, and however hard you try to knock this meteorite for TKW, of what may or may not come to fruition, this meteorite is priceless to Science. I don't understand what the focus on TKW boils down to other than monetary value or jealousy, this meteorite truly transcends price. And I think the focus should be on the science of what this meteorite can teach us about our past. And possibly give us clues to the future. NWA 6077 is a Meteorite that has most likely come from the mantle of a planet, which one? The Oxygen Isotope results suggest one like our own planet Earth. Even if there are 10kg or more, this meteorite is from the mantle of a planet that is similar to our own and comes from a place in time that does not exist anymore. I hope we can, as a community become more productive with our time and focus on figuring out what the meteorite parent body is and what the conditions are that existed when it materialized. I suggest we shift the emphasis to the scientific study rather than putting such a great focus on prematurely rushing TKW statistics, that can only be revealed only after many more years of scientific studies. Regards, John Higgins IMCA# 9822 - Original Message From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 12:01:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Its great that there is such a nice amount of this material when considering all the pairings... With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. I bet the Brachinties are coming out of the woodwork to be tested. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 9:26 AM Official Announcement NWA 6077 IS PAIRED WITH NWA 5400 North West Africa 6077 Description: An olivine-rich assemblage with cumulate (or possibly metamorphic) texture exhibiting triple junction grain boundaries. Olivine (Fa30.2-30.7), orthopyroxene (Fs24.1-24.5Wo2.1-2.0), clinopyroxene (Fs9.4-10.0Wo44.0-43.5), altered kamacite, chromite, chlorapatite, Ni-bearing troilite and/or pyrrhotite. No plagioclase was found. Analysis conducted at the Carnegie Institution of Washington show that the oxygen isotopic composition of this specimen plots on the Terrestrial Fractionation Line. In conjunction with the mineral compositions and texture, this establishes that NWA 6077 is paired
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Congratulations John, It is great to hear that you really appreciate what this meteorite represents. I do not have any financial interest whatsoever in this rare and scientifically valuable find. I am surprised at the most reasonable price it is being offered for. Even if several more kilograms is confirmed, it is extremely rare; millions of times rare than diamonds and infinitely more important as far as I am concerned. One just has to look at the GRA stones found in Antarctica that were once mistakenly thought to plot on the TFL. The scientific community was scampering to get pieces of it after the press was misinformed about were they plotted. Now the real deal has shown up and from Northwest Africa, unquestionably the most important source for scientifically important new meteorites the last decade. Appreciate these meteorites while you can because new finds are being made at a mere trickle compared to five years ago in both Antarctica and Northwest Africa. Best Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
A higher TKW then I had calculated... This meteorite and its pairings while representing something spectacular (which NOBODY will dispute) and has also shown something very sad and disappointing... 2 IMCA members openly attacking 2 other IMCA members over comments that turned out to be correct and accurate. A meteorite list that shows the vile monetary based nature of meteorites in relation to this pairing group with rude and unwarranted comments tossed about. People who love meteorites, for money, science, food(?), whatever... going at it like school kids. Why do I even stay a member of this list? I see why so many have left or simply dont ever post. You guys need to take a step back and look at what we do here on this PUBLIC list. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com, Greg star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 1:36 PM The following is a list of the official pairings and approximate TKW so far for this amazing Brachinite-like meteorite NWA 5400. 4280. grams NWA 6292. 725. grams. NWA 6077. 1000. grams NWA 5363 7985. grams. Total. 13,990. grams. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: Greg Catterton, I would be very cautious with throwing loose words around like considering all the pairings As far as I know NWA 6077 is the only whole stone other than NWA 6292 of which is very fragmented that has conclusively been paired through testing and subsequent testing to NWA 5400, from what I understand most of the others are purely conjecture, or speculative without the extensive testing completed or in various stages of testing... I think our focus should be on the Science and authenticity of claims before you start making bets and psychic predictions about how much more material is paired to this very special and important meteorite. Regardless of what you think, and however hard you try to knock this meteorite for TKW, of what may or may not come to fruition, this meteorite is priceless to Science. I don't understand what the focus on TKW boils down to other than monetary value or jealousy, this meteorite truly transcends price. And I think the focus should be on the science of what this meteorite can teach us about our past. And possibly give us clues to the future. NWA 6077 is a Meteorite that has most likely come from the mantle of a planet, which one? The Oxygen Isotope results suggest one like our own planet Earth. Even if there are 10kg or more, this meteorite is from the mantle of a planet that is similar to our own and comes from a place in time that does not exist anymore. I hope we can, as a community become more productive with our time and focus on figuring out what the meteorite parent body is and what the conditions are that existed when it materialized. I suggest we shift the emphasis to the scientific study rather than putting such a great focus on prematurely rushing TKW statistics, that can only be revealed only after many more years of scientific studies. Regards, John Higgins IMCA# 9822 - Original Message From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 12:01:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Its great that there is such a nice amount of this material when considering all the pairings... With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. I bet the Brachinties are coming out of the woodwork to be tested. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 9:26 AM Official Announcement NWA 6077 IS PAIRED WITH NWA 5400 North West Africa 6077 Description: An olivine-rich assemblage with cumulate (or possibly metamorphic) texture exhibiting triple junction grain boundaries. Olivine (Fa30.2-30.7
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
NWA 5363 needs to be updated on the Bulletin Greg S. Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 10:48:19 -0700 From: star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; geohigg...@yahoo.com; cdtuc...@cox.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 A higher TKW then I had calculated... This meteorite and its pairings while representing something spectacular (which NOBODY will dispute) and has also shown something very sad and disappointing... 2 IMCA members openly attacking 2 other IMCA members over comments that turned out to be correct and accurate. A meteorite list that shows the vile monetary based nature of meteorites in relation to this pairing group with rude and unwarranted comments tossed about. People who love meteorites, for money, science, food(?), whatever... going at it like school kids. Why do I even stay a member of this list? I see why so many have left or simply dont ever post. You guys need to take a step back and look at what we do here on this PUBLIC list. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: From: cdtuc...@cox.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, John higgins , Greg Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 1:36 PM The following is a list of the official pairings and approximate TKW so far for this amazing Brachinite-like meteorite NWA 5400. 4280. grams NWA 6292.725. grams. NWA 6077. 1000. grams NWA 5363 7985. grams. Total. 13,990. grams. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax John higgins wrote: Greg Catterton, I would be very cautious with throwing loose words around like considering all the pairings As far as I know NWA 6077 is the only whole stone other than NWA 6292 of which is very fragmented that has conclusively been paired through testing and subsequent testing to NWA 5400, from what I understand most of the others are purely conjecture, or speculative without the extensive testing completed or in various stages of testing... I think our focus should be on the Science and authenticity of claims before you start making bets and psychic predictions about how much more material is paired to this very special and important meteorite. Regardless of what you think, and however hard you try to knock this meteorite for TKW, of what may or may not come to fruition, this meteorite is priceless to Science. I don't understand what the focus on TKW boils down to other than monetary value or jealousy, this meteorite truly transcends price. And I think the focus should be on the science of what this meteorite can teach us about our past. And possibly give us clues to the future. NWA 6077 is a Meteorite that has most likely come from the mantle of a planet, which one? The Oxygen Isotope results suggest one like our own planet Earth. Even if there are 10kg or more, this meteorite is from the mantle of a planet that is similar to our own and comes from a place in time that does not exist anymore. I hope we can, as a community become more productive with our time and focus on figuring out what the meteorite parent body is and what the conditions are that existed when it materialized. I suggest we shift the emphasis to the scientific study rather than putting such a great focus on prematurely rushing TKW statistics, that can only be revealed only after many more years of scientific studies. Regards, John Higgins IMCA# 9822 - Original Message From: Greg Catterton To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; John higgins Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 12:01:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Its great that there is such a nice amount of this material when considering all the pairings... With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. I bet the Brachinties are coming out of the woodwork to be tested. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, John higgins wrote: From: John higgins Subject: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 9:26 AM Official Announcement NWA
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Greg, I must disagree with you completely... No one is attacking you personally. John is NOT out of line. He seems to be up to date on the facts regarding the pairings of the stones. Nothing he said that I can see is incorrect, however your attack on him seems rather harsh. I feel your comment is irresponsible, scientifically and personally. Your comment: ...With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. I bet the Brachinties are coming out of the woodwork to be tested Possible, but the SCIENCE is more important than conjecture and feelings. Regards, Eric On 10/5/2010 10:30 AM, Greg Catterton wrote: Wow... First off, NWA 5363 HAS been confirmed paired, as well as 6292 and yours. I think YOU should check your facts before calling me out like you are. A simple search of the metbul shows the REPORTED TKW of the material and simple math will show you the TKW of material that is in the 5363/5400/6077/6292 pairing group. Please do not publicly accuse me of things when YOU are the one who is not up to date with information and you do not have the facts correct. I have no interests in this material other then as a collector. I am not selling any of the material from any pairings. Why do you feel the need to come at me like you did? There is a nice amount of this available. I expect an apology for your comments as you are out of line and clearly in the wrong. ALL I STATED IS FACTS. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, John higginsgeohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: John higginsgeohigg...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 1:12 PM Greg Catterton, I would be very cautious with throwing loose words around like considering all the pairings As far as I know NWA 6077 is the only whole stone other than NWA 6292 of which is very fragmented that has conclusively been paired through testing and subsequent testing to NWA 5400, from what I understand most of the others are purely conjecture, or speculative without the extensive testing completed or in various stages of testing... I think our focus should be on the Science and authenticity of claims before you start making bets and psychic predictions about how much more material is paired to this very special and important meteorite. Regardless of what you think, and however hard you try to knock this meteorite for TKW, of what may or may not come to fruition, this meteorite is priceless to Science. I don't understand what the focus on TKW boils down to other than monetary value or jealousy, this meteorite truly transcends price. And I think the focus should be on the science of what this meteorite can teach us about our past. And possibly give us clues to the future. NWA 6077 is a Meteorite that has most likely come from the mantle of a planet, which one? The Oxygen Isotope results suggest one like our own planet Earth. Even if there are 10kg or more, this meteorite is from the mantle of a planet that is similar to our own and comes from a place in time that does not exist anymore. I hope we can, as a community become more productive with our time and focus on figuring out what the meteorite parent body is and what the conditions are that existed when it materialized. I suggest we shift the emphasis to the scientific study rather than putting such a great focus on prematurely rushing TKW statistics, that can only be revealed only after many more years of scientific studies. Regards, John Higgins IMCA# 9822 - Original Message From: Greg Cattertonstar_wars_collec...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; John higginsgeohigg...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 12:01:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Its great that there is such a nice amount of this material when considering all the pairings... With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. I bet the Brachinties are coming out of the woodwork to be tested. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, John higginsgeohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: John higginsgeohigg...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 9:26 AM Official Announcement NWA 6077 IS PAIRED WITH NWA 5400 North West Africa 6077 Description: An olivine-rich assemblage with cumulate
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
No one is attacking you personally. John is NOT out of line. Comments such as he made when addressed to me is a direct attack on me and my remarks about the official TKW of pairings. He seems to be up to date on the facts regarding the pairings of the stones Incorrect. There has been other confirmed pairings, just recently discussed on this list. I feel your comment is irresponsible, scientifically and personally. Your comment: ...With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. I bet the Brachinties are coming out of the woodwork to be tested How? There is CONFIRMED to be OVER 13kg of this material paired. And yes, Brachinites are coming out of the woodwork. How is that comment irresponsible, scientifically and personally. Its based on FACTS. So again, whats wrong with what I said? Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 1:57 PM Greg, I must disagree with you completely... No one is attacking you personally. John is NOT out of line. He seems to be up to date on the facts regarding the pairings of the stones. Nothing he said that I can see is incorrect, however your attack on him seems rather harsh. I feel your comment is irresponsible, scientifically and personally. Your comment: ...With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. I bet the Brachinties are coming out of the woodwork to be tested Possible, but the SCIENCE is more important than conjecture and feelings. Regards, Eric On 10/5/2010 10:30 AM, Greg Catterton wrote: Wow... First off, NWA 5363 HAS been confirmed paired, as well as 6292 and yours. I think YOU should check your facts before calling me out like you are. A simple search of the metbul shows the REPORTED TKW of the material and simple math will show you the TKW of material that is in the 5363/5400/6077/6292 pairing group. Please do not publicly accuse me of things when YOU are the one who is not up to date with information and you do not have the facts correct. I have no interests in this material other then as a collector. I am not selling any of the material from any pairings. Why do you feel the need to come at me like you did? There is a nice amount of this available. I expect an apology for your comments as you are out of line and clearly in the wrong. ALL I STATED IS FACTS. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, John higginsgeohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: John higginsgeohigg...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 1:12 PM Greg Catterton, I would be very cautious with throwing loose words around like considering all the pairings As far as I know NWA 6077 is the only whole stone other than NWA 6292 of which is very fragmented that has conclusively been paired through testing and subsequent testing to NWA 5400, from what I understand most of the others are purely conjecture, or speculative without the extensive testing completed or in various stages of testing... I think our focus should be on the Science and authenticity of claims before you start making bets and psychic predictions about how much more material is paired to this very special and important meteorite. Regardless of what you think, and however hard you try to knock this meteorite for TKW, of what may or may not come to fruition, this meteorite is priceless to Science. I don't understand what the focus on TKW boils down to other than monetary value or jealousy, this meteorite truly transcends price. And I think the focus should be on the science of what this meteorite can teach us about our past. And possibly give us clues to the future. NWA 6077 is a Meteorite that has most likely come from the mantle of a planet, which one? The Oxygen Isotope results suggest one like our own planet Earth. Even if there are 10kg or more, this meteorite is from the mantle of a planet that is similar to our own and comes from a place in time that does not exist anymore. I hope we can, as a community become more productive with our time and focus
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Hi, (Ooopsie... I almost was tempted, to write, that I vaguely remember a kind of an angry school kid, and something about a royal angrite and before with a part of a known lunaite. Forgive me ;-). Hey wouldn't it be interesting, if someone here on the list, would have a fine link at hand to a graph with the Terrestrial Fractionation Line and where therein the different meteorite types plot, for the not yet so experienced list members knowing, why that material is so specialinteresting? Perhaps with a few words of explanations? Any of the grand list pedagogues? Sterling? Btw. what happened to Mr.Vesta MexicoDoug, who was also an excellent tutor and one of the best explainers of the list? Best! Martin (We're too busy at the moment, with another one, which plots close to the TFL. No worries, completely different type.) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Catterton Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Oktober 2010 19:48 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; John higgins; cdtuc...@cox.net Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 A higher TKW then I had calculated... This meteorite and its pairings while representing something spectacular (which NOBODY will dispute) and has also shown something very sad and disappointing... 2 IMCA members openly attacking 2 other IMCA members over comments that turned out to be correct and accurate. A meteorite list that shows the vile monetary based nature of meteorites in relation to this pairing group with rude and unwarranted comments tossed about. People who love meteorites, for money, science, food(?), whatever... going at it like school kids. Why do I even stay a member of this list? I see why so many have left or simply dont ever post. You guys need to take a step back and look at what we do here on this PUBLIC list. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Hi Martin and List, Here is the meteorite oxygen chart you requested: http://themeteoritesite.com/MeteoriteOxygen.jpg Enjoy, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Aloha Martin, list, Here is a photo of an O-isotope plot taken out page 39 of Robert Hutchinson's book Meteorites - A Petrologic, Chemical and Isotopic Synthesis: http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/TFL.jpg gary On Oct 5, 2010, at 8:28 AM, Martin Altmann wrote: Hi, (Ooopsie... I almost was tempted, to write, that I vaguely remember a kind of an angry school kid, and something about a royal angrite and before with a part of a known lunaite. Forgive me ;-). Hey wouldn't it be interesting, if someone here on the list, would have a fine link at hand to a graph with the Terrestrial Fractionation Line and where therein the different meteorite types plot, for the not yet so experienced list members knowing, why that material is so specialinteresting? Perhaps with a few words of explanations? Any of the grand list pedagogues? Sterling? Btw. what happened to Mr.Vesta MexicoDoug, who was also an excellent tutor and one of the best explainers of the list? Best! Martin (We're too busy at the moment, with another one, which plots close to the TFL. No worries, completely different type.) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Catterton Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Oktober 2010 19:48 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; John higgins; cdtuc...@cox.net Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 A higher TKW then I had calculated... This meteorite and its pairings while representing something spectacular (which NOBODY will dispute) and has also shown something very sad and disappointing... 2 IMCA members openly attacking 2 other IMCA members over comments that turned out to be correct and accurate. A meteorite list that shows the vile monetary based nature of meteorites in relation to this pairing group with rude and unwarranted comments tossed about. People who love meteorites, for money, science, food(?), whatever... going at it like school kids. Why do I even stay a member of this list? I see why so many have left or simply dont ever post. You guys need to take a step back and look at what we do here on this PUBLIC list. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Hey Greg C., may you agree, that in meteoritics only that counts in the end: - the entry in the Bulletin - publication(s) by scientists - information, authorized by scientists to be released. Everything else are bona fide statements. To believe them or not to believe them, you have to leave to the meteorite people. Certainly much depends on the credibility and on the reputation of those, who make such bona fide statements. Also that you should leave to the individual people, whether they rely on the experience and the standing of the person. Or whether they think, that it is sheer speculation. Here we are still in the process of the scientific analyses of a meteorite itself, as well as of its suspected pairings. So I think, you can stay calm, like all others are now and show the patience necessary to wait for the results. Btw. I liked the way John introduced his NWA 6077 a lot. That is professionalism at its best. My personal 2 cents. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Greg Catterton [mailto:star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Oktober 2010 20:54 An: Martin Altmann Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 But keep in mind, the same people who questioned NWA 6291 being paired due to how it looked also said the same could not be done with this example. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Hi Carl, it's because on Gary's chart only the chondrite-groups are plotted, while on Adam's chart also achondrites are shown. Best! -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: cdtuc...@cox.net [mailto:cdtuc...@cox.net] Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Oktober 2010 21:03 An: Martin Altmann; Gary Fujihara Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Gary, This is interesting. I do not have a copy of this book you reference. This chart shows that EH and EL also plot along the TFL and omits the Aubrites. Whereas the link Adam provided shows Aubrites and Moon on that line at about the same place. Why do these charts differ? Thanks. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com wrote: Aloha Martin, list, Here is a photo of an O-isotope plot taken out page 39 of Robert Hutchinson's book Meteorites - A Petrologic, Chemical and Isotopic Synthesis: http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/TFL.jpg gary On Oct 5, 2010, at 8:28 AM, Martin Altmann wrote: Hi, (Ooopsie... I almost was tempted, to write, that I vaguely remember a kind of an angry school kid, and something about a royal angrite and before with a part of a known lunaite. Forgive me ;-). Hey wouldn't it be interesting, if someone here on the list, would have a fine link at hand to a graph with the Terrestrial Fractionation Line and where therein the different meteorite types plot, for the not yet so experienced list members knowing, why that material is so specialinteresting? Perhaps with a few words of explanations? Any of the grand list pedagogues? Sterling? Btw. what happened to Mr.Vesta MexicoDoug, who was also an excellent tutor and one of the best explainers of the list? Best! Martin (We're too busy at the moment, with another one, which plots close to the TFL. No worries, completely different type.) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Catterton Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Oktober 2010 19:48 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; John higgins; cdtuc...@cox.net Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 A higher TKW then I had calculated... This meteorite and its pairings while representing something spectacular (which NOBODY will dispute) and has also shown something very sad and disappointing... 2 IMCA members openly attacking 2 other IMCA members over comments that turned out to be correct and accurate. A meteorite list that shows the vile monetary based nature of meteorites in relation to this pairing group with rude and unwarranted comments tossed about. People who love meteorites, for money, science, food(?), whatever... going at it like school kids. Why do I even stay a member of this list? I see why so many have left or simply dont ever post. You guys need to take a step back and look at what we do here on this PUBLIC list. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
List: I was wondering - is it possible that all of these are not really paired in the sense that they are not from the same main mass, but instead could be from the same planetary body - perhaps pre-earth or somewhere else? I find these meteorites to be very fascinating and I enjoy reading all the literature about them. It looks as though many questions need to be answered, and I look forward to more publications in the future. It's At times like this we should be celebrating within the meteorite community instead of all this pointless bickering and name calling. The meteorites are what the are, and nobody can change that. So let's let the scientists do their work and see what happens. Greg S. Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 11:46:14 -0700 From: raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Hi Martin and List, Here is the meteorite oxygen chart you requested: http://themeteoritesite.com/MeteoriteOxygen.jpg Enjoy, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Ok, what am I missing? NWA 5363 has been confirmed with a published TKW of 2455 grams. NWA 6292 has been confirmed with a published TKW of 725 grams. NWA 6077 has been confirmed with a published TKW of 1010 grams. All 3 above have been confirmed by scientists to be paired with NWA 5400 that has a published TKW of 4818 grams... Does that not make the over 10kg I originally stated, only to be warned about making assumptions of pairings that are already known and public on this list to be paired? Just ask Norbert of the IMCA... he has surely been swamped with work due to the drama over pairings to 5400. If you dont think the brachinites are coming out of the woodwork, ask Tony Irving or anyone else qualified to test such rare material, I am sure they will tell you it is. To be perfectly clear, I do not own any of this or the pairings for sale. I own NONE of 5363 and have no interest in 6077. I have a part slice of 5400 which I bought early and for 10x as much as what I got 6292 for. Im not mad, or upset. I bought early and thats a risk with doing so. All I did is comment on the TKW of the material and pairings and I was hit with comments concerning me and directed at me (Publicly) questioning my post and the claims I made to TKW. You can try to make me look like the bad guy here, but Im not and you wont. Martin wants to mention my angrite, and since Im on a roll... Was is not Adam Hupe himself who said my NWA 6291 did not look paired due to how it looked so much different then the samples he presented? What made that any different then others commenting on potential pairings of 5400? There is none other then who said it. People publicly questioned Tony Irvings data due to appearance. Plain and simple. Thats all I have to say about this. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 3:42 PM Hey Greg C., may you agree, that in meteoritics only that counts in the end: - the entry in the Bulletin - publication(s) by scientists - information, authorized by scientists to be released. Everything else are bona fide statements. To believe them or not to believe them, you have to leave to the meteorite people. Certainly much depends on the credibility and on the reputation of those, who make such bona fide statements. Also that you should leave to the individual people, whether they rely on the experience and the standing of the person. Or whether they think, that it is sheer speculation. Here we are still in the process of the scientific analyses of a meteorite itself, as well as of its suspected pairings. So I think, you can stay calm, like all others are now and show the patience necessary to wait for the results. Btw. I liked the way John introduced his NWA 6077 a lot. That is professionalism at its best. My personal 2 cents. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Greg Catterton [mailto:star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Oktober 2010 20:54 An: Martin Altmann Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 But keep in mind, the same people who questioned NWA 6291 being paired due to how it looked also said the same could not be done with this example. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Ok, what am I missing? I found your comment on John Higgins' introduction of NWA 6077 improper. Especially, cause you were aware of the disputes in summer and where now all agreed to be calm and to wait for the isotopes, before they announce a pairing, just like John did. So why trying again to throw oil in the fire? What for? With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. That prophetic gift makes you standing out from the oldest NWA-pros. :-) Cause all of them had learned over the years, that sometimes there is coming more of a stone and sometimes not. One never knows. Back to work, Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Greg Catterton [mailto:star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Oktober 2010 22:05 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Ok, what am I missing? __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
I am sorry that you think me commenting on the TKW is throwing oil on the fire. It was my intention of the post to simply say hey, its awesome there is more now then yesterday The pairings have been verified, there is over 10kg. Where is the harm in saying that? The O isotope data is in on each sample I mentioned... so what did I do wrong? Mention the TKW is over 10kg when its actually over 13kg? I spoke with Greg Hupe when this first came up over 5400 months ago and told him I wasnt going to get into this one. I did not get into it, and I did not buy any of the pairings for resale. I have no stake in this. Yes, I do stand out from the old NWA pros I am a lot newer and still have much to learn. I will not dispute that, but its ok... I will learn as did you and everyone else. There is a nice way to do things and a not so nice way. I feel John could have been a good deal more polite in his comments directed at me, part may be how I read it, but part was not. Its not the first time he has come off on me in an aggressive fashion and aside from the NASA dumping thing (which I was upset about based on media reports) I dont just go off on this list as I am sure many of you know. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 4:38 PM Ok, what am I missing? I found your comment on John Higgins' introduction of NWA 6077 improper. Especially, cause you were aware of the disputes in summer and where now all agreed to be calm and to wait for the isotopes, before they announce a pairing, just like John did. So why trying again to throw oil in the fire? What for? With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. That prophetic gift makes you standing out from the oldest NWA-pros. :-) Cause all of them had learned over the years, that sometimes there is coming more of a stone and sometimes not. One never knows. Back to work, Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Greg Catterton [mailto:star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Oktober 2010 22:05 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Ok, what am I missing? __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Hi Martin Btw. I liked the way John introduced his NWA 6077 a lot. That is professionalism at its best. I couldn't agree more! Thanks John, thanks Martin, thanks Adam and thanks to all the other REAL experts on the list. It's because of people like you that I still love this list. Keep up the good work. We need people like you here. Let's work TOGETHER to keep this list a place of civil exchange of ideas and data. The list is too important to be a battleground. Best Martin (another one) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Gesendet: 05.10.2010 21:42:53 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Hey Greg C., may you agree, that in meteoritics only that counts in the end: - the entry in the Bulletin - publication(s) by scientists - information, authorized by scientists to be released. Everything else are bona fide statements. To believe them or not to believe them, you have to leave to the meteorite people. Certainly much depends on the credibility and on the reputation of those, who make such bona fide statements. Also that you should leave to the individual people, whether they rely on the experience and the standing of the person. Or whether they think, that it is sheer speculation. Here we are still in the process of the scientific analyses of a meteorite itself, as well as of its suspected pairings. So I think, you can stay calm, like all others are now and show the patience necessary to wait for the results. Btw. I liked the way John introduced his NWA 6077 a lot. That is professionalism at its best. My personal 2 cents. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Greg Catterton [mailto:star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Oktober 2010 20:54 An: Martin Altmann Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 But keep in mind, the same people who questioned NWA 6291 being paired due to how it looked also said the same could not be done with this example. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
--- On Tue, 10/5/10, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Any of the grand list pedagogues? My uncle was, but he got put in jail for it :) Steve Steve Witt IMCA #9020 http://imca.cc/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
The following is a list of the official pairings and approximate TKW so far for this amazing Brachinite-like meteorite NWA 5400. 4280. grams NWA 6292.725. grams. NWA 6077. 1000. grams NWA 5363 7985. grams. Total. 13,990. grams. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: Greg Catterton, I would be very cautious with throwing loose words around like considering all the pairings As far as I know NWA 6077 is the only whole stone other than NWA 6292 of which is very fragmented that has conclusively been paired through testing and subsequent testing to NWA 5400, from what I understand most of the others are purely conjecture, or speculative without the extensive testing completed or in various stages of testing... I think our focus should be on the Science and authenticity of claims before you start making bets and psychic predictions about how much more material is paired to this very special and important meteorite. Regardless of what you think, and however hard you try to knock this meteorite for TKW, of what may or may not come to fruition, this meteorite is priceless to Science. I don't understand what the focus on TKW boils down to other than monetary value or jealousy, this meteorite truly transcends price. And I think the focus should be on the science of what this meteorite can teach us about our past. And possibly give us clues to the future. NWA 6077 is a Meteorite that has most likely come from the mantle of a planet, which one? The Oxygen Isotope results suggest one like our own planet Earth. Even if there are 10kg or more, this meteorite is from the mantle of a planet that is similar to our own and comes from a place in time that does not exist anymore. I hope we can, as a community become more productive with our time and focus on figuring out what the meteorite parent body is and what the conditions are that existed when it materialized. I suggest we shift the emphasis to the scientific study rather than putting such a great focus on prematurely rushing TKW statistics, that can only be revealed only after many more years of scientific studies. Regards, John Higgins IMCA# 9822 - Original Message From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 12:01:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Its great that there is such a nice amount of this material when considering all the pairings... With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. I bet the Brachinties are coming out of the woodwork to be tested. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 9:26 AM Official Announcement NWA 6077 IS PAIRED WITH NWA 5400 North West Africa 6077 Description: An olivine-rich assemblage with cumulate (or possibly metamorphic) texture exhibiting triple junction grain boundaries. Olivine (Fa30.2-30.7), orthopyroxene (Fs24.1-24.5Wo2.1-2.0), clinopyroxene (Fs9.4-10.0Wo44.0-43.5), altered kamacite, chromite, chlorapatite, Ni-bearing troilite and/or pyrrhotite. No plagioclase was found. Analysis conducted at the Carnegie Institution of Washington show that the oxygen isotopic composition of this specimen plots on the Terrestrial Fractionation Line. In conjunction with the mineral compositions and texture, this establishes that NWA 6077 is paired with NWA 5400. The averages of the two Oxygen Isotope Results are: d17O = 2.780, d18O = 5.358, D17O = -0.019 (all in per mil) This brachinite was recovered out of Morocco in 2008 as one whole stone and purchased by John Higgins. It was submitted for classification to Dr. Tony Irving and was given the provisional classification number of NWA 6077. This meteorite has a modest TKW of less than 1000g after the type specimen was removed. Personal Notes: Although I suspected that the two were possibly paired due to similarities in visual observations and classification compositions, I felt it was important to wait for secondary Oxygen Isotope results to come in which have recently confirmed the results beyond a reasonable doubt. There was also another important factor besides Oxygen Isotope testing that had to be taken into account. Orthopyroxene
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Correction. typo. NWA 5400 has 4820 grams not 4280 grams (TYPO) . so add 540 grams to the total. Now we're at 14,530 grams. TKW. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: The following is a list of the official pairings and approximate TKW so far for this amazing Brachinite-like meteorite NWA 5400. 4280. grams NWA 6292.725. grams. NWA 6077. 1000. grams NWA 5363 7985. grams. Total. 13,990. grams. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: Greg Catterton, I would be very cautious with throwing loose words around like considering all the pairings As far as I know NWA 6077 is the only whole stone other than NWA 6292 of which is very fragmented that has conclusively been paired through testing and subsequent testing to NWA 5400, from what I understand most of the others are purely conjecture, or speculative without the extensive testing completed or in various stages of testing... I think our focus should be on the Science and authenticity of claims before you start making bets and psychic predictions about how much more material is paired to this very special and important meteorite. Regardless of what you think, and however hard you try to knock this meteorite for TKW, of what may or may not come to fruition, this meteorite is priceless to Science. I don't understand what the focus on TKW boils down to other than monetary value or jealousy, this meteorite truly transcends price. And I think the focus should be on the science of what this meteorite can teach us about our past. And possibly give us clues to the future. NWA 6077 is a Meteorite that has most likely come from the mantle of a planet, which one? The Oxygen Isotope results suggest one like our own planet Earth. Even if there are 10kg or more, this meteorite is from the mantle of a planet that is similar to our own and comes from a place in time that does not exist anymore. I hope we can, as a community become more productive with our time and focus on figuring out what the meteorite parent body is and what the conditions are that existed when it materialized. I suggest we shift the emphasis to the scientific study rather than putting such a great focus on prematurely rushing TKW statistics, that can only be revealed only after many more years of scientific studies. Regards, John Higgins IMCA# 9822 - Original Message From: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 12:01:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 Its great that there is such a nice amount of this material when considering all the pairings... With over 10kg of this material in pairings known so far, I am willing to bet there is likely a good amount more still. I bet the Brachinties are coming out of the woodwork to be tested. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 10/5/10, John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 9:26 AM Official Announcement NWA 6077 IS PAIRED WITH NWA 5400 North West Africa 6077 Description: An olivine-rich assemblage with cumulate (or possibly metamorphic) texture exhibiting triple junction grain boundaries. Olivine (Fa30.2-30.7), orthopyroxene (Fs24.1-24.5Wo2.1-2.0), clinopyroxene (Fs9.4-10.0Wo44.0-43.5), altered kamacite, chromite, chlorapatite, Ni-bearing troilite and/or pyrrhotite. No plagioclase was found. Analysis conducted at the Carnegie Institution of Washington show that the oxygen isotopic composition of this specimen plots on the Terrestrial Fractionation Line. In conjunction with the mineral compositions and texture, this establishes that NWA 6077 is paired with NWA 5400. The averages of the two Oxygen Isotope Results are: d17O = 2.780, d18O = 5.358, D17O = -0.019 (all in per mil) This brachinite was recovered out of Morocco in 2008 as one whole stone and purchased by John Higgins. It was submitted for classification to Dr. Tony Irving and was given the provisional classification number of NWA 6077. This meteorite has a modest TKW of less than 1000g after the type specimen was removed. Personal Notes: Although I suspected that the two were possibly paired due
Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400
Gary, This is interesting. I do not have a copy of this book you reference. This chart shows that EH and EL also plot along the TFL and omits the Aubrites. Whereas the link Adam provided shows Aubrites and Moon on that line at about the same place. Why do these charts differ? Thanks. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com wrote: Aloha Martin, list, Here is a photo of an O-isotope plot taken out page 39 of Robert Hutchinson's book Meteorites - A Petrologic, Chemical and Isotopic Synthesis: http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/Images/TFL.jpg gary On Oct 5, 2010, at 8:28 AM, Martin Altmann wrote: Hi, (Ooopsie... I almost was tempted, to write, that I vaguely remember a kind of an angry school kid, and something about a royal angrite and before with a part of a known lunaite. Forgive me ;-). Hey wouldn't it be interesting, if someone here on the list, would have a fine link at hand to a graph with the Terrestrial Fractionation Line and where therein the different meteorite types plot, for the not yet so experienced list members knowing, why that material is so specialinteresting? Perhaps with a few words of explanations? Any of the grand list pedagogues? Sterling? Btw. what happened to Mr.Vesta MexicoDoug, who was also an excellent tutor and one of the best explainers of the list? Best! Martin (We're too busy at the moment, with another one, which plots close to the TFL. No worries, completely different type.) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Catterton Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Oktober 2010 19:48 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; John higgins; cdtuc...@cox.net Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Official Announcement NWA 6077 is Paired with NWA 5400 A higher TKW then I had calculated... This meteorite and its pairings while representing something spectacular (which NOBODY will dispute) and has also shown something very sad and disappointing... 2 IMCA members openly attacking 2 other IMCA members over comments that turned out to be correct and accurate. A meteorite list that shows the vile monetary based nature of meteorites in relation to this pairing group with rude and unwarranted comments tossed about. People who love meteorites, for money, science, food(?), whatever... going at it like school kids. Why do I even stay a member of this list? I see why so many have left or simply dont ever post. You guys need to take a step back and look at what we do here on this PUBLIC list. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
